Author Topic: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease  (Read 14110 times)

The Wire

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Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« on: November 12, 2015, 03:32:35 PM »
Situation I am in is that the my landlord is increasing my rent after 4 years. It's not a giant increase only $50. My issue is that not only does he want this increase but he also wants me to sign a 2 year lease. At this point I am on a month to month as my original lease has long been over.


What are my best options here?
  • I like the apartment and it's still a decent price after the rent increase

  • He is willing to rent a shorter term(he didn't specify yet but Im assuming 1 year at best(big deal))

I don't like the idea that literally out of no where he sends me this rent increase letter and 2 year lease which is effective in 7 weeks. I always pay my rent early or on time and I haven't contacted him for any maintenance in 1.5 years. A few times a year he even asks me if he can park in my spot during the day since I have a apartment in a town center.

The problem is the new lease starts on 1/1/16 so I have basically not enough time to find anything better and if I agree to the 1 year lease I'm stuck for the whole year. His entire reason for not allowing me to go month to month is that he said I can move out without much notice and they wouldn't have enough time to fill the apartment leaving them without a month of rent. My ideal situation would be for me to be required to give him 8 weeks notice. Is there anyway a lease could be written like that?. Almost an open ended lease where either him or I would need to give each other 8 weeks notice on a termination. 

He's basically getting 2 things out of this deal and Im stuck with nothing at the moment.

norabird

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2015, 03:39:07 PM »
This is pretty standard; plus, moving has a lot of attendant costs as well, and any new place you move into would likely be a min 1 year lease. I would re-sign if it were me.

Goldielocks

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2015, 03:50:11 PM »
Situation I am in is that the my landlord is increasing my rent after 4 years. It's not a giant increase only $50. My issue is that not only does he want this increase but he also wants me to sign a 2 year lease. At this point I am on a month to month as my original lease has long been over.


What are my best options here?
  • I like the apartment and it's still a decent price after the rent increase

  • He is willing to rent a shorter term(he didn't specify yet but Im assuming 1 year at best(big deal))

I don't like the idea that literally out of no where he sends me this rent increase letter and 2 year lease which is effective in 7 weeks. I always pay my rent early or on time and I haven't contacted him for any maintenance in 1.5 years. A few times a year he even asks me if he can park in my spot during the day since I have a apartment in a town center.

The problem is the new lease starts on 1/1/16 so I have basically not enough time to find anything better and if I agree to the 1 year lease I'm stuck for the whole year. His entire reason for not allowing me to go month to month is that he said I can move out without much notice and they wouldn't have enough time to fill the apartment leaving them without a month of rent. My ideal situation would be for me to be required to give him 8 weeks notice. Is there anyway a lease could be written like that?. Almost an open ended lease where either him or I would need to give each other 8 weeks notice on a termination. 

He's basically getting 2 things out of this deal and Im stuck with nothing at the moment.

The fee increase is normal, and normal timing too.

A 2 year lease -- I would call him  up and agree, but ask to add in a clause stating that you will only need to give 3 months notice to terminate, at any time... or suggest an agreed upon fee to terminate with 1 month notice before 2 years (that you can stomach).

I think you empathize with his issue about a short notice to re-rent, but three months notice should be plenty for any landlord, unless you have a wierd / unique property (horse farm, maybe, or movie star showcase mansion on a private island...)

As you have until the end of the month to think it over,  you could always ask for the new terms and meanwhile, start looking for another place now, for January 1st, and give a 1 month notice on Nov 29th, leaving him to try to re-rent the property for January 1st, which is not an ideal time for him unless your market is hot.   

If you can't find anything, and can't negotiate a lower termination clause, then you could always sign and take your chances...  or refuse to sign and keep tryinig to find another place, or see if he will issue your termination papers.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 03:52:05 PM by goldielocks »

Goldielocks

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2015, 03:55:29 PM »
One more question -- what would happen if you DON't sign?

Here, you are on a month to month lease, and subject to the rules surrounding monthly tenancy... the only way to move a tennant is for lack of rent payment, destruction of property, or to request personal use of the property (the landlord's family will move in).  For the final reason, you have to PAY the tenant 1 month rent as a moving allowance...

IDK -- maybe in your area the rules are quite different?   I would find out, if your rules are like here, then you have a lot of ammunition  -- great tenant, agrees to normal rent increases, hard and / or expensive to force to move out.


The Wire

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2015, 04:06:05 PM »
Situation I am in is that the my landlord is increasing my rent after 4 years. It's not a giant increase only $50. My issue is that not only does he want this increase but he also wants me to sign a 2 year lease. At this point I am on a month to month as my original lease has long been over.


What are my best options here?
  • I like the apartment and it's still a decent price after the rent increase

  • He is willing to rent a shorter term(he didn't specify yet but Im assuming 1 year at best(big deal))

I don't like the idea that literally out of no where he sends me this rent increase letter and 2 year lease which is effective in 7 weeks. I always pay my rent early or on time and I haven't contacted him for any maintenance in 1.5 years. A few times a year he even asks me if he can park in my spot during the day since I have a apartment in a town center.

The problem is the new lease starts on 1/1/16 so I have basically not enough time to find anything better and if I agree to the 1 year lease I'm stuck for the whole year. His entire reason for not allowing me to go month to month is that he said I can move out without much notice and they wouldn't have enough time to fill the apartment leaving them without a month of rent. My ideal situation would be for me to be required to give him 8 weeks notice. Is there anyway a lease could be written like that?. Almost an open ended lease where either him or I would need to give each other 8 weeks notice on a termination. 

He's basically getting 2 things out of this deal and Im stuck with nothing at the moment.

The fee increase is normal, and normal timing too.

A 2 year lease -- I would call him  up and agree, but ask to add in a clause stating that you will only need to give 3 months notice to terminate, at any time... or suggest an agreed upon fee to terminate with 1 month notice before 2 years (that you can stomach).

I think you empathize with his issue about a short notice to re-rent, but three months notice should be plenty for any landlord, unless you have a wierd / unique property (horse farm, maybe, or movie star showcase mansion on a private island...)

As you have until the end of the month to think it over,  you could always ask for the new terms and meanwhile, start looking for another place now, for January 1st, and give a 1 month notice on Nov 29th, leaving him to try to re-rent the property for January 1st, which is not an ideal time for him unless your market is hot.   

If you can't find anything, and can't negotiate a lower termination clause, then you could always sign and take your chances...  or refuse to sign and keep tryinig to find another place, or see if he will issue your termination papers.


The property is extremely easy to rent since it basically a unit with parking in a center of a pretty busy town. The catch is he might need some repainting for the price he's asking. The original reason I stated 8 weeks was because that's probably the amount of notice he would send me for a lease anyway at the end of the year. So I don't understand how he needs more notice. Heck even now it's less than 8 weeks to 1/1/2016, so if I move out now he's going to have to rent it out in less than 8 weeks.

 Im just really annoyed he's getting 2 things out of this deal. The kicker is the tenant before me pissed the landlord off so much with complaining that he left him out of the least scott free early just to get him out of his life. Here I am not giving this guy a single problem for years.

The Wire

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2015, 04:14:44 PM »
One more question -- what would happen if you DON't sign?

Here, you are on a month to month lease, and subject to the rules surrounding monthly tenancy... the only way to move a tennant is for lack of rent payment, destruction of property, or to request personal use of the property (the landlord's family will move in).  For the final reason, you have to PAY the tenant 1 month rent as a moving allowance...

IDK -- maybe in your area the rules are quite different?   I would find out, if your rules are like here, then you have a lot of ammunition  -- great tenant, agrees to normal rent increases, hard and / or expensive to force to move out.

I have no idea. I am assuming he would have to get me evicted if I didn't sign. The only thing I read for my state was that notice should be given at least 30 days before the termination date because it satisfies the district justice court requirements. Ideally I don't want to piss him off because he could screw me on my security deposit which is a full month's rent and I am confident I could get it back if I appease him.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2015, 04:24:37 PM »
It sounds to me like it's a good place and a good price, you're just annoyed that he's asking in the first place? The question then is, are you letting pride dictate your opinion on the matter? Not the best way to proceed IMO, but that's up to you.

Beaker

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2015, 04:26:23 PM »
He's basically getting 2 things out of this deal and Im stuck with nothing at the moment.
That's one way to look at it. But a lot of people get annual rent increases, which you haven't had. Also most places one year leases are the minimum, so you've been ahead of the game on that. And 7 weeks of notice is probably almost twice what he had to give you. I'd say the landlord has gone out of his way to be nicer than average. Of course you could move, but you might discover that you've given up a good thing.

Anyway, if you don't want to do two years I would ask about a one year lease, but be prepared for it to cost more. In every market I've been in one year was the standard lease, so you might have a hard time finding better terms elsewhere.

My ideal situation would be for me to be required to give him 8 weeks notice. Is there anyway a lease could be written like that? Almost an open ended lease where either him or I would need to give each other 8 weeks notice on a termination. 

The lease can have whatever notice terms you want to agree on, within the limits of the law. But again, the more flexibility you have to leave the more it'll probably cost you.

Quote from: The Wire
I am assuming he would have to get me evicted if I didn't sign.
No, he wouldn't. Letting the lease expire is different than an eviction. Now, if the lease expired and you stayed in the unit, then he would have to evict you.

Quote from: The Wire
Ideally I don't want to piss him off because he could screw me on my security deposit which is a full month's rent
He could try in any case, but of course there are laws against that sort of thing. You seem really annoyed at this guy, even though he seems to have been more accommodating than he is legally required to be. Is there any particular reason for that?

Fuzz

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2015, 04:32:08 PM »

Here, you are on a month to month lease, and subject to the rules surrounding monthly tenancy... the only way to move a tennant is for lack of rent payment, destruction of property, or to request personal use of the property (the landlord's family will move in).  For the final reason, you have to PAY the tenant 1 month rent as a moving allowance...


Check to make sure that is the law in your area. In the US, places like NYC and SF have protections like that. In most other jurisdictions they can just not renew your lease. YMMV.

The Wire

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2015, 04:38:14 PM »
you're just annoyed that he's asking in the first place?


Its that and it technically puts me in a worst place then before since the job market is so unstable. I don't foresee losing my job this year but there is a lot of changes with outsourcing of positions.

Quote
The question then is, are you letting pride dictate your opinion on the matter? Not the best way to proceed IMO, but that's up to you.


I am partially letting that dictate my opinion which is a bad thing. I agree

therethere

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2015, 04:40:28 PM »
I'd say this is a great deal! Provided you are planning to stay in the area for 2 years. Its pretty common for landlords to request you sign another 1 year lease when your first one expires. In 10 years of renting, only once has my landlord let the month to month take effect. I've always gotten a notice of rent increase (usually 5%) and request for a new lease right about the 60-90 days before my current lease expires. You've been lucky so far.  I know you see it as a negative right now but it appears the landlord wants you to stay hence the locking in the low price for another 2 years.

The Wire

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2015, 05:07:56 PM »

That's one way to look at it. But a lot of people get annual rent increases, which you haven't had. Also most places one year leases are the minimum, so you've been ahead of the game on that. And 7 weeks of notice is probably almost twice what he had to give you. I'd say the landlord has gone out of his way to be nicer than average. Of course you could move, but you might discover that you've given up a good thing. 

Agreed, he doesn't have to even give me 7 weeks but I don't consider it any favor for 7 weeks either since I'm sure he has had this planned for a long time since I've been on a month to month for 3 years now. I also agree the move could be worse but it's especially true trying to do it on short notice.



 
Quote
You seem really annoyed at this guy, even though he seems to have been more accommodating than he is legally required to be. Is there any particular reason for that?


Because when his wife texts me at noon on a workday asking if it's alright to park in my spot so she can go to lunch in town, It then annoys me to see a copy and paste letter informing me I need to sign a new lease in 7 weeks. Don't get me wrong, he's accommodating but Im also extremely accommodating.  It's basically a maintenance free property for him besides sending his repair guy in once a blue moon if something broke. I've purposely been hiding some items that I need repaired or replaced because I had a feeling he was going to increase the rent(i honestly was not expecting him a ask for a brand new lease with term). I just spoke to my neighbor about this 10 mins ago now and I found out he got the same letter. Thing is we literally do all the work at the property. In fact my neighbor is the one spending his money and time on the property doing things like power cleaning and staining the deck and doing other misc things. We both said he's getting bill for everything from now on. If I sign again the first thing Im asking for is for my 30 year old electric stove to be fixed or replace. I have a few items on the list as well.

Just to restate I'm not saying he's a bad landlord by any stretch but thats why I am annoyed.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 05:09:40 PM by The Wire »

Rollin

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2015, 05:12:34 PM »
It sounds to me like it's a good place and a good price, you're just annoyed that he's asking in the first place? The question then is, are you letting pride dictate your opinion on the matter? Not the best way to proceed IMO, but that's up to you.

+1
...and you are on a month to month lease so you cannot expect to have it your way for the duration.  The landlord needs some kind of commitment, and can probably get the same thing from another (or maybe even more rent).  $50 increase over four years - you should be thankful.  So, you have lived up to your agreement to pay on time - good on you, but I'll bet the expenses have gone up, more than $50/month.

human

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2015, 05:19:01 PM »
Wow, Canada is much different. If you get into a month to month situation the landlord can't suddenly switch back to a yearly (or 2 years wtf?) lease without your consent. It seems in the U.S. the landlord can do whatever the hell they want. No wonder so many people own rental property on this site . . .

Bearded Man

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2015, 06:14:47 PM »
OP. I have a different take on this than some. If you want a MTM lease, then offer to pay him more for that freedom. Every place I've ever rented had a $50-$75 dollar higher rate for a MTM lease. If this is the first time he has raised the rent in FOUR years, and all he is asking is $50 more and a two year lease, then I'd say he is being very reasonable. I think it is unreasonable to complain about it actually. Offer him $25 more or whatever per month for a MTM lease and see if he takes it. I think he is being more than generous, if you want to change the terms, put some money on the table.

I charged higher rents for MTM leases than annual leases WHEN I did annual leases. Now all of my tenants are on MTM leases. Much easier to get rid of them. Just 20 days notice before the end of the month for any non discriminatory reason for either party.

I charge one flat rate as a way of attracting tenants, and guarantee in their lease that I will not raise the rental price for a period of 12 months, but that in no way guarantees the unit to them for anything other than month to month.

Landlords with long term leases take on more risk. Yeah, you can have a 5 year lease all you want, if I break it and move to Zimbabwe, good luck with that. Annual leases only protect tenants, not landlords...

Orvell

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2015, 06:41:38 PM »
Annual leases only protect tenants, not landlords...
That can't be true, though. Tenants are on the hook for whatever is in the lease regarding breaking said lease. Sometimes it's a month of rent, sometimes it's a lot more, and if you didn't put that into your own legally binding lease for your tenants, that's on you.
Did I hallucinate the fact that I can't just break my lease scott free?

zinethstache

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2015, 06:55:53 PM »
My work coordinator just had his rent upped by $150/mo. for a year lease, the complex he lives in offers different rates for different intervals. His rent was $1100, its going up to $1350 and when I asked if he knew what the MTM rate is, he said $2k/mo! and this is a 2b/1ba apartment.

Our PM has the same strategy, various intervals with increasing rates. We renewed one tenant with a 6 mo lease and raised their rent $75, if it would have been for a year we would have raised it by $50.

Another unit earlier this year was re-upped for 2 years at a $50 increase(different part of town, different size/type of unit). We have 3 multis scattered around town so each lease is evaluated separately.

I would ask him what a 6 month lease increase would be if you don't want to commit to any longer, just be prepared for it to be $100 or more.

justajane

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2015, 07:03:41 PM »
This is unfortunate, in large part because he appears to be alienating a good tenant. I agree with you that it's the combination of the $50 increase and asking you to revert to a 2 year lease. I wonder what's going through his head or what has changed in his approach to landlording?

I agree that two years is a long time. I would have never signed a lease that long. What if you counter and say you can only commit to one year?

nereo

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2015, 07:24:06 PM »
Wow, Canada is much different. If you get into a month to month situation the landlord can't suddenly switch back to a yearly (or 2 years wtf?) lease without your consent. It seems in the U.S. the landlord can do whatever the hell they want. No wonder so many people own rental property on this site . . .
I think you are overstating this.  Compare the rental laws in BC with those in Quebec... They are not even remotely the same.  Likewise, laws governing rentals in different US cities differ quite a bit.  In Quebec the terms of a lease can be altered with written notice within a timeframe that pertains to the original lease. It is only when the landlord does NOT give changes in writing that the lease continues under the previous agreement (eg if it was a 1 year lease it becomes renewed for another 1 year).

To the OP - regarding the rent increases, I increase the rent every year.  Otherwise you loose out to inflation.  Why should you pay less in 2016 than you did in 2015 in real terms?

Second, I don't understand why you think you can't find another place before 1/1/2016. I've moved several times with less notice.

Third, if your landlord wants to go to a longer lease, this is your chance to ask him to fix up the things you would like done.  He/she doesn't want a vacancy, and if he/she is suggesting a two-year lease then he/she is obviously likes you as a tenant.  Loosing you would cost quite a bit, so my sense is the landlord would be willing to agree to repairs and adjustments (no giving up your parking space) if you agree to stay.

human

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2015, 07:50:30 PM »
Nereo you are right a lease is automatically renewed in Quebec. My point however was that if you are in a month to month situation (which you can request after a year and of course landlords avoid this like the plague) it can't suddenly be switched to a lease. I rented in Quebec for a decade . . .

In Ontario a tenant has the right to switch to month to month after a year, of course if they tenant does not request the switch it won't happen.

The Wire

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2015, 08:26:38 PM »
If you want a MTM lease, then offer to pay him more for that freedom.


I had that freedom for the last 3 years and established myself as a reliable trouble free tenant. Now I have to pay for it out of thin air? I just don't understand the logic.


Quote
If this is the first time he has raised the rent in FOUR years, and all he is asking is $50 more and a two year lease, then I'd say he is being very reasonable. I think it is unreasonable to complain about it actually.


My biggest issue is he obviously knew he was going to do this for a while and sent the new lease request close enough to 1/1/2016 that it wouldn't give me any real time to have any other option. If he told me back in September "Hey I wanted to give you a heads up, the taxes have been going up so Im probably going to request a rent increase and require a new lease at the beginning of the year..etc."  that would have been nice. That would allow me to make a decision with options. I understand he's not required to give me 4 months notice. As a fellow human being it would be nice gesture just like Im not required to be nice enough to allow him to use my parking space. The same space that allows him to change the amount of money that he does to me. I do it because its a nice gesture even though I pay for it. Just treat people like people and not faceless money producing objects. Now I know where I stand with him.


Quote
Annual leases only protect tenants, not landlords...

You're suggesting my landlord is forcing me into an annual lease for my protection?

Orvell

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2015, 08:33:55 PM »
Have you talked to him?
You have an advantage over me right now; your landlord is a human, not a corporation. Don't hardball negotiate (it doesn't work) but it *is* worth it to try to come up with a win-win proposal. Maybe sign the 2 year lease but propose a $40/mo increase instead of $50. Or agree to the $50 for a 1 year lease. He presumably wants to keep you as a tenant, so that's a major advantage.
But don't act like he owes you. He doesn't. But finding a mutually beneficial arrangement is probably doable.

Basically: use your words, they are your greatest power in this situation

:) And good luck!

Cathy

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2015, 08:36:45 PM »
Wow, Canada is much different. ...

Canada does not have national laws governing residential tenancies (except national laws that have an incidental effect on residential tenancies). The Constitution of Canada explicitly provides that only provincial legislatures may "make Laws in relation to ... Property and Civil Rights in the Province". Constitution Act, 1867, 30 & 31 Vict, c 3, 92(13). Laws governing residential tenancies vary significantly between provinces. For example, Alberta's residential tenancy laws take a much more laissez-faire approach than do the laws of Ontario and BC.

One thing that is true across all of Canada and the United States is that most people do not understand property law very well. Dubious statements abound. I express no view on anything stated in this topic.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 08:50:06 PM by Cathy »

The Wire

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2015, 08:48:44 PM »
To the OP - regarding the rent increases, I increase the rent every year.  Otherwise you loose out to inflation.  Why should you pay less in 2016 than you did in 2015 in real terms?


He doesn't raise it because he doesn't do any real maintenance on the place and we basically never connect him for anything besides things we can't fix(like a heater issue). He's not completely stupid. He realizes that raising the rent every year is a risky move on his end as well. As I stated earlier the tenant before me was so bad that he let him out of his lease early. This guy's main job isn't being a landlord. How much is your time worth? If you keep raising rent the expectation of the place raises as well. I haven't contacted this guy in 1.5 years for anything. You think I'm going to do that with a guy raising rent every year? No way. You are going to hear every issue from me.


Quote
Second, I don't understand why you think you can't find another place before 1/1/2016. I've moved several times with less notice.


I won't be able to find anything as good or better in that amount of time. Finding decent places takes a while and I'm particular what I would want. If I had a crystal ball I would have been searching months ago.



Quote
Third, if your landlord wants to go to a longer lease, this is your chance to ask him to fix up the things you would like done.  He/she doesn't want a vacancy, and if he/she is suggesting a two-year lease then he/she is obviously likes you as a tenant.  Loosing you would cost quite a bit, so my sense is the landlord would be willing to agree to repairs and adjustments (no giving up your parking space) if you agree to stay.


Agreed. The bill for what he's going to be fixed will offset most of the rental increase. He's not going to be making out as much as he thinks. 

SecretMinimalist

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2015, 09:25:03 PM »
I am a tenant and a landlord (I don't live in the property I own) so can see both sides of this.

What would you do if you were the landlord...
- For the lease: would you be worried that the tenant on the month-to-month lease might give a month's notice at a really inconvenient time?  (During a planned long trip or expected medical treatment etc) or would you rather have it sorted for a longer period? 
- For the increase: would you look at the rents of similar properties in the area and want to keep your property earning what it's worth while balancing wanting to keep a good tenant. A fairly small increase of $50 could be a way of trying to do both.

And as the tenant....
- Do you want to be at risk of the landlord giving you a month's notice at a time inconvenient to you?
- Does the additional $50 push the rent over market rate?
- Are you making the landlord aware of the things that you are fixing instead of asking him to do it? He might sort it out for you if you ask.  But, is the hassle of you waiting in for the landlord or their maintenance person more than the hassle of doing a minor repair yourself?

As for the use of the parking space... if the landlord asking to use it when you aren't there is inconveniencing you (by you having to park elsewhere etc) then say no if you like. If it's not inconveniencing you, what's the problem?  If the landlord is OK, why not keep the business relationship on good terms? 


Freckles

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2015, 04:26:13 AM »
A $50 increase after four years is amazing.  And a two-year lease locks in that low price for another two years.  I'd stick with and count myself lucky.

tomorrowsomewherenew

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2015, 04:50:03 AM »
I think this could be a great opportunity, assuming you want to continue living here for a few years. I might negotiate an even longer lease, as well as some reasonable opportunity to get out of it. Look at it as a way to lock in a deal for several years, and keep this situation working in your favor.

norabird

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2015, 07:35:19 AM »
You are taking this too personally OP--it's not personal. It's standard practice. Letting them use the parking space when it's open does not give you the right to be morally outraged at a situation that is absolutely normal.

Beaker

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2015, 07:45:58 AM »
OP, I think you might want to point out how nice you've been about maintenance/fixing things. He may not be aware of all of that. In the future you should make sure the landlord knows about that when it happens - even if you just say "FYI this thing broke, but you can just leave it if you want." You have to make sure he knows you're doing him a favor if you're expecting something in return.

Likewise if you're going to do improvements/repairs, you should make it clear up front that you're doing it and perhaps negotiate some consideration. If you don't do it, then you're left just hoping that things work out later - which is pretty much where you are now. This isn't really a tenant/landlord thing, just general negotiating strategy.


As an aside, I have had tenants think they were doing me a favor by not reporting a leaky pipe or foundation. So it got a lot worse, and then they expected me to thank them for it. I'm not saying that's you, you seem more aware than that, just pointing out that in some cases not mentioning broken items may not be doing anyone a favor.

Baron235

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2015, 07:48:49 AM »
I am so confused by your outrage or concern with this.  You are on a month to month.  He and you both can terminate with a month's notice, so he could be out a tenant just as quickly as you could be out of a place. 

Second, he is a business owner, trying to maximize revenue.  As you say, the rent increase is still good for the area, so he is just adjusting his price to be more in line with the market.  Perfectly reasonable to do.   

Third, increasing the lease term is also perfectly reasonable.  Maybe he has concerns about high turnover on a shorter lease or he has some cash flow concerns over the next years so he wants to lock a tenant in.  Or he just likes know his tenant can't leave in month which would make him find a new tenant. 


Yes it is an inconvenience, but it is the normal inconvenience of renting. 

Also, to the Canadian question about being forced into agreeing to a 2 year lease, he is not being forced. Basically, the landlord is saying it is a month to month lease and we are terminating unless you agree to the new terms and conditions.   


The Wire

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2015, 08:02:00 AM »
Update

I had further conversation with him as follows via email;

Landlord "We are actually willing to send you a lease for any time period you would like as long as we can agree a 90-day notification-to-leave clause. Basically we don't want to get stuck on short notice. "

Me: "Ok great. Can I have a month to month lease with a 90-day notification-to-leave clause"

Landlord:"Sorry we are doing multiple lease renewals right now and I spoke incorrectly.  we need a one year lease minimum with a 90 day cancellation clause I will send that thanks"




What is the purpose of the additional "90-day notification-to-leave clause"? His original concern was that I can leave at anytime(mind you i've been on month to month for the last 3 years). So the 90-day notification-to-leave clause takes away that concern.




Baron235

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2015, 08:09:27 AM »
Update

I had further conversation with him as follows via email;

Landlord "We are actually willing to send you a lease for any time period you would like as long as we can agree a 90-day notification-to-leave clause. Basically we don't want to get stuck on short notice. "

Me: "Ok great. Can I have a month to month lease with a 90-day notification-to-leave clause"

Landlord:"Sorry we are doing multiple lease renewals right now and I spoke incorrectly.  we need a one year lease minimum with a 90 day cancellation clause I will send that thanks"




What is the purpose of the additional "90-day notification-to-leave clause"? His original concern was that I can leave at anytime(mind you i've been on month to month for the last 3 years). So the 90-day notification-to-leave clause takes away that concern.

After a year the lease turns into a month to month unless stated otherwise and the landlord would want that 90 days to be in place going forward.   If I were you I would make it mutual.  he must give you 90 days notice and you give him the same. 

Also, don't take this personal.  This all normal negotiations and nothing appears to be in bad faith or mean spirited.  You seem to be offended for him just trying to protect his interests.   

norabird

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2015, 08:14:17 AM »
Leases are standard. I've been month to month at many places and it was great, I loved it, but when the landlord reintroduces a lease, that's life. Agree to the 90 day notification period and be happy you can do a year term since that seems to give you some flexibility. I don't see how it materially affects you in any way--if you want to leave in the future, give him 90 days notice, and you're set.

The Wire

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2015, 08:17:03 AM »


After a year the lease turns into a month to month unless stated otherwise and the landlord would want that 90 days to be in place going forward.   If I were you I would make it mutual.  he must give you 90 days notice and you give him the same. 


Thats interesting. So he could write up a contact where I have to give him 3 months notice but he doesnt? Good idea I will specify it needs to go both ways.


Quote
Also, don't take this personal.  This all normal negotiations and nothing appears to be in bad faith or mean spirited.  You seem to be offended for him just trying to protect his interests.   

I offended that he gave me 7 weeks notice for something he's now going to require 3 months notice on. It's a blindside on his end. Why not let me know earlier? Thats my question. Why not give me 3 months notice on my lease change like he wants 3 months?

justajane

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2015, 08:30:33 AM »
If you stay, I would definitely communicate better the things you are doing on the property or the things you are overlooking. Years ago I had an out of town landlord who decided to sell the house we were living in. He gave us a few months notice, but I had already signed on another property and found a subletter for the last three months of my lease. Well, since the house was being sold, of course the subleaser who was going to take over my portion of the lease didn't want to move in, since she was wanting a more permanent place to live. The landlord said I would still have to pay the remainder of the lease, as would anyone else who would want to leave earlier.

Anyway, we wrote him a detailed letter of all the things we had done or put up with over the last few years, including one roommate living on a concrete slab for over a month while he was waiting for a "good deal" on new carpet after a basement flood. I think he was shocked by our laundry list of things. I guess it had never occurred to him that we were picking up his slack all those years. He ended up letting me out of the lease early.

nereo

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2015, 08:52:56 AM »

I offended that he gave me 7 weeks notice for something he's now going to require 3 months notice on. It's a blindside on his end. Why not let me know earlier? Thats my question. Why not give me 3 months notice on my lease change like he wants 3 months?

Your current lease is a month-to-month, so how much notice he must give you is based on this agreement.  It varies between provinces (in Canada) and municipalites (in the US) but in Quebec a lease of less than 12 months requires notification of between 1 and 2 months.  His notice would fit into that time frame.  (source embedded)

If he changes to a year+ lease the notification period may also change.  Here in Quebec it would be at least 3 months but no more than 6 months.  Notifications that don't fit into the time frames are not valid.

Again, you need to check what your local regulations are, but it appears that his notifications are very much in line with what is required in most places that I have lived (including counties in California, Virginia, Maine, Hawai'i as well as the provinces of Quebec and Newfoundland).

I also still do not understand why searching for other locations is out of the question.  In my experience most landlords list rentals with less than two months lead time.  The bulk of the available rentals for Jan 1st will be posted within the next 3 weeks.  I'd take this as an unplanned opportunity to decide whether your current rental situation 1) is a good deal 2) in the best location and 3) what you really want (opportunity to upsize/downsize, seek out new amenities, etc)

monstermonster

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2015, 09:01:24 AM »
Your local conditions sound different, but a $50/month increase with a locked in rate for 2 years would be a dream. Here, landlords prefer month to month because they can raise the rent as often as they like, and they can no-cause evict you at any time. My rent has been increasing $50 every six months. My partner's rent went up $150 at the end of a 14-month and if he didn't want to sign a lease, month-to-month was $400 more each month.

It sounds to me like you're frustrated over very little. Do a bit of negotiating but don't be bitter for what sounds like a reasonable landlord request. No rent increase in 4 years? My rent is DOUBLE what it was 4 years ago and I have never gotten my apartment repaired.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2015, 09:07:29 AM »
Your local conditions sound different, but a $50/month increase with a locked in rate for 2 years would be a dream. Here, landlords prefer month to month because they can raise the rent as often as they like, and they can no-cause evict you at any time. My rent has been increasing $50 every six months. My partner's rent went up $150 at the end of a 14-month and if he didn't want to sign a lease, month-to-month was $400 more each month.

It sounds to me like you're frustrated over very little. Do a bit of negotiating but don't be bitter for what sounds like a reasonable landlord request. No rent increase in 4 years? My rent is DOUBLE what it was 4 years ago and I have never gotten my apartment repaired.

+1. At my last place, I was EXCITED to only have a $120 rent increase when renewing my lease because of rental conditions here. My disabled brother was given a 30 day notice of termination without cause this summer- and now lives with me and my husband. Lots of families are being ousted from the homes they have rented for more than a decade with a 30 day notice and are unable to get their kids into the same school district.

Just saying... it could be a lot worse. 7 weeks for a change of terms, when you've been month to month? Not a big deal. I kinda feel like you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

The Wire

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2015, 09:35:09 AM »

I offended that he gave me 7 weeks notice for something he's now going to require 3 months notice on. It's a blindside on his end. Why not let me know earlier? Thats my question. Why not give me 3 months notice on my lease change like he wants 3 months?

Your current lease is a month-to-month, so how much notice he must give you is based on this agreement.  It varies between provinces (in Canada) and municipalites (in the US) but in Quebec a lease of less than 12 months requires notification of between 1 and 2 months.  His notice would fit into that time frame.  (source embedded)



I get that he is legally well within his rights since it's month-to-month. Like I said, if I have a relationship where his wife(or him) texts me during the day asking to park at my spot then i'd appreciate similar curiosity about the same amount of notice he wants going forward which is 3 months. Honestly is he told me back in beginning of October I wouldn't have cared anywhere near as much. Can we all agree most likely he knew he was going to make this change a long time ago? If I'm doing the landlord favors then doesn't he give me that same courtesy back? He can figure out how to text me for my parking spot but not something like changing the lease? Why not give me a heads up when he was thinking about this? I don't believe for a second he just came up with this. He purposely waited till the end of the year to send the change because he obviously doesn't want me moving since I'm trouble free and he just collects checks from me. Thats why I'm annoyed.   


Quote
I also still do not understand why searching for other locations is out of the question.  In my experience most landlords list rentals with less than two months lead time.  The bulk of the available rentals for Jan 1st will be posted within the next 3 weeks.  I'd take this as an unplanned opportunity to decide whether your current rental situation 1) is a good deal 2) in the best location and 3) what you really want (opportunity to upsize/downsize, seek out new amenities, etc)

It's the same reason the landlord requires 3 months to get a new tenant. I only have a few weeks to find something at this point. I've been looking but I'm not confident any better will open up. Funny enough over the summer an apartment opened up literally 100 feet from my down the block which I was thinking about but I decided against partially because I'd only give my landlord 30 days notice which I think would have been tacky so I just let it pass up. 

frugaliknowit

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2015, 09:41:00 AM »
In colder climates, landlords do not want to be trying to rent a place out in the dead of winter, if they can avoid it.

Nothing he is asking is unreasonable, except for a 2 year lease, but he is flexible on that.  To expect to go month to month in perpetuity is not realistic (and has it's risks...like someone buying the building and jacking you up majorly...in fact, maybe that's why he is changing his ways...maybe he is putting the building on the market???).
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 09:50:40 AM by frugaliknowit »

catccc

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2015, 09:52:34 AM »
So, I am in a month to month lease and I've been in the place for almost 5 years without a rent increase.  Expecting it to stay that way, but I certainly understand OP's frustrations.

OP, do you want to stay at least 2 more years?  If you ask for a year instead, and risk another rent increase, are you okay with that?

I don't think 7 weeks for you to decide this is all that bad.  But it is certainly ironic that he wants 90 days.  Can you ask if 60 days is more fair based on this?

If you are already soured on the relationship, and would like out but don't think you have enough time. Maybe you can tell him you think 90 days notice is fair, and you agree to the rent increase starting on such and such date, but you can't do a 2 year lease, so you are instead giving your 90 days notice?



Bracken_Joy

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2015, 09:55:58 AM »
Can we all agree most likely he knew he was going to make this change a long time ago?

I don't think we can agree on that at all. You never know what happens in someone's life to move them to wanting more security. Maybe they just got a cancer diagnosis, or he found out his identity was stolen and is dealing with disputing a huge debt, or there's a lawsuit or something... lots of reasons can make someone suddenly go "Oh shit, I don't want to be left high and dry right now, it would end me". Unless your landlord keeps a blog about his personal business that you read, I don't think it's reasonable to assume you know what's going on behind closed doors and attribute malice or disrespect to something that is fundamentally just business.

monstermonster

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2015, 09:56:03 AM »
It's the same reason the landlord requires 3 months to get a new tenant. I only have a few weeks to find something at this point. I've been looking but I'm not confident any better will open up. Funny enough over the summer an apartment opened up literally 100 feet from my down the block which I was thinking about but I decided against partially because I'd only give my landlord 30 days notice which I think would have been tacky so I just let it pass up.

Speaking as a non-landlord, it is obviously easier for you to find a new place to rent (unless market conditions are terrible) than it is for the landlord to get a new tenant. They have to advertise the place, wait til you move out, do any necessary repairs (4-5 days) show the unit, and then wait for the appropriate point at which they can lease it. They'll likely be out a month of rent. You can find a place while you're still in the unit.

Speaking as a fellow renter, too, it's not that challenging to find a new apartment with 7 weeks, unless you're somewhere where the market conditions are really tough, like SF (in which case I don't think you would be whining about this, so I assume you are not). Most landlords don't even list their available units that early- I tried to look 7 weeks ahead of my partner's lease expiring and everything was either available within 2 weeks, which would have meant paying an extra month of double-rent. Finding a place with 3 weeks left was much easier than with 7 weeks.

You're seriously taking this way too personally. This is a business dealing and your landlord is treating you fairly under the law. If you are uncomfortable about his wife texting you for the parking spot, tell him that. Don't try to make what should be a fair and reasonable contract negotiation about personal issues.

KCM5

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #43 on: November 13, 2015, 10:07:49 AM »
In colder climates, landlords do not want to be trying to rent a place out in the dead of winter, if they can avoid it.

Nothing he is asking is unreasonable, except for a 2 year lease, but he is flexible on that.  To expect to go month to month in perpetuity is not realistic (and has it's risks...like someone buying the building and jacking you up majorly...in fact, maybe that's why he is changing his ways...maybe he is putting the building on the market???).

I was thinking this, too. Maybe he wants to sell with the building fully rented and all tenants on long leases.

Or maybe he's just had a change of heart about month to month leases. Either way, I'd sign the year lease if I were planning on staying for that long.

nereo

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #44 on: November 13, 2015, 10:12:17 AM »

Your current lease is a month-to-month, so how much notice he must give you is based on this agreement.  It varies between provinces (in Canada) and municipalites (in the US) but in Quebec a lease of less than 12 months requires notification of between 1 and 2 months.  His notice would fit into that time frame.  (source embedded)

I get that he is legally well within his rights since it's month-to-month. Like I said, if I have a relationship where his wife(or him) texts me during the day asking to park at my spot then i'd appreciate similar curiosity about the same amount of notice he wants going forward which is 3 months. Honestly is he told me back in beginning of October I wouldn't have cared anywhere near as much. Can we all agree most likely he knew he was going to make this change a long time ago? If I'm doing the landlord favors then doesn't he give me that same courtesy back? He can figure out how to text me for my parking spot but not something like changing the lease? Why not give me a heads up when he was thinking about this? I don't believe for a second he just came up with this. He purposely waited till the end of the year to send the change because he obviously doesn't want me moving since I'm trouble free and he just collects checks from me. Thats why I'm annoyed.   

I think you can divide this into two questions:
1) local rental rules aside, is 7 weeks notice an unreasonable time frame to alter a month-to-month lease?
2) Is your landlord acting professionally?

The answer to both questions seems to be "no".  However, just because your landlord asks you for favors and sends you text messages doesn't mean change the answer to question 1.  You say you are annoyed with his conduct - that's understandable.  But that doesn't alter how much notice he can or should give you.

I would recommend accepting the 7 weeks notice as more than fair, and deal with his unprofessional behavior while signing a new lease.  He wants you to sign a year+ lease, so now is a good time to request in writing things like necessary repairs and appropriate conduct going forward (for example: 'no text messages during work hours about parking spaces' and '90-days notice before either party changes the lease agreement')

Also - as Montermonster said, keep searching for rentals.  Most are listed only ~30 days before they want new tenants.  You have the opportunity here to look around for the next few weeks while still having the backup plan of signing a longer lease.

therethere

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #45 on: November 13, 2015, 11:12:43 AM »
My last 3 or 4 apartments I secured with <1 week until my lease was over. Was it seamless and comfortable? No. It was stressful as anything having said I'm not renewing my lease but with no where to go. Most landlords require 30-60days notice to move out or resign the lease. Therefore most places won't even be listed 8 weeks out since tenants haven't given their notice yet!  I always look at the market 2 months out and there are no listings on my schedule. From my experience, the majority listings are for move in within 30 days or less. Another reason why you might not be finding comparable places looking in advance. I've seen the lower you get within the 30 days, the better deals that come out. If there's only a week left in the month landlords may drop the price rather than have the unit empty the next month.

Just remember. No matter what happens it will turn out FINE. It sucks your rent is going up and flexibility is going down. Overall it seems like your landlord is pretty reasonable dude. Talk to him about accepting a 1 year lease or adding a moveout clause with a fixed penalty and days notice requirement. Do not take it personally. Who cares if he decided in advance he was going to raise the rent and request a lease. This does not matter! Think of it from the opposite view. Wouldn't you be even more pissed if you got the notice lets say 3 months early because you happened to talk to him about something. Then you talked to your neighbor and he hadn't discussed it with them yet? Its cleaner and more professional to send out notices to all the tenants at the same time.

Jeremy E.

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #46 on: November 13, 2015, 11:46:37 AM »
I would say something like this,
I have been a good tenant, I fix a lot of things myself, I don't complain about the old/inefficient parts of the place like the fridge and I let you and your wife use my parking spot. I don't want to sign a 2 year lease, Can we instead do a 6 month lease?

Sibley

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #47 on: November 13, 2015, 12:25:43 PM »
As the daughter of landlords who've had both good and crappy tenants. Things break. Either fix it yourself or contact the landlord to fix it.

If you choose to fix it rather than going to the landlord, that was your choice and you've forfeited the right to be annoyed about it. If the landlord won't fix something after you've told them about it, that's different and local laws probably cover this.

But for heaven's sake, don't just ignore it. That just annoys the hell out of your landlord (a decent one at least).

As for the 7 weeks notice - I've gotten 2 weeks notice before. I've also gotten 2 months notice. Things vary. Grow up and stop whining.

justajane

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #48 on: November 13, 2015, 12:34:25 PM »
OP, you've got a lot of landlords on here, so take that into consideration when you look at the comments.

This thread just underscores that, no matter how nice the tenant is, no matter how nice the landlord is, the relationship between landlord and tenant can very quickly degenerate. In fact, I would argue that it is, by nature, an adversarial relationship.

Unlike others, I understand why you feel on edge here. But people have made some good suggestions on how to remedy the situation. I wouldn't go out guns blazing here, unless you already have a place you want to move. You have as much (or more) to lose here as he does, in large part because the holidays are approaching and it might be harder for you to move during that time.

Beaker

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Re: Landlord increasing rent and asking for 2 year lease
« Reply #49 on: November 13, 2015, 01:08:47 PM »
Can we all agree most likely he knew he was going to make this change a long time ago?

Not at all. His situation may have changed, or he may have just not been thinking about it. It could be that two days before he read some article or forum post that made him think he needed better leases. Maybe he was waiting to run comps so he could decide what a fair lease rate was, and didn't want to do it 6 months in advance because they wouldn't be as comparable. Maybe he just sucks at planning ahead (but not too much, because he is 3 weeks ahead of the minimum notice). Maybe he had a lot of other stuff going on, between the multiple rentals and the day job.

In any case, you seem to think he's over there twirling his mustache (the evil kind, not the money kind) thinking of ways to screw his tenants. That is probably not the case.