Why am I not okay with not being promoted?

[Beach_Stache]

So I'll start off with the fact that I enjoy my job.  I wouldn't work for free, but I check emails on off days, do some brainstorming on the weekends and extra hours.  I like the challenge of the job and I'm paid well enough for it.  Investment/Savings wise, we're doing great.  We couldn't retire now w/3 boys, but are doing well on our financial planning on all fronts.

I work very hard at my job.  I am a FED so have stability and a future pension and I have the flexibility to come up with "million dollar ideas" each year, so I have autonomy in my job (maybe 50% of the time), and the other 50% is attending stupid meetings, doing admin stuff, documenting work that I do, etc.  Also I'm a full time telework employee, so pre-Covid I drive 3.5 hours up to the office and stay a week each quarter.  My boss of 12 years just retired and he was great, he left me alone to do my thing b/c he saw my value to the organization.  He engaged w/me when he needed (and vice versa) and other than that he let me do my thing b/c it made him look good and he saw the value.

Last year he retired and my co-worker eventually got his job (which was the right choice), which freed up her position (which I applied to and was interviewed for a few years ago but was not selected).  I saw how much more work she had to do, attend more stupid meetings, more documentation and project plans and stuff I hate, but I still wanted to apply for her job.  I was the logical choice since I've got tenure and know the branch and have done most of the actual work within the branch for the last decade.  I asked many times when her position would open up and she always said "I don't know".  I talked w/her and my other bosses many times about being promoted, so they knew my aspirations.

So the other month I was informed that they had selected a contractor for the position as a sole sourced position.  They never even opened it up for internal or external applicants (I didn't even know that was allowed?).  I was just told that they selected this person b/c they are a project manager and that's what they needed.  Maybe the right decision for a PM to attent meetings, be the babysitter and ask when the tasks are going to be done, etc.  Not even close to my experience in the actual area, just babysitting.

So I find myself very upset w/the process, not being allowed to apply and interview, having a contractor who was a contractor at our organization previously, was gone for a while and was a contractor again the last year, so is familiar w/the people and project, and is friendly w/my co-workers.  But I'm still very upset w/the decision.  I am friends w/my boss who made that "behind my back" decision, but find that I really do not enjoy her being my manager and I hold resentment for the entire process which was very sneaky and I lost a ton of respect for her.  I see her as only my manager now and not my office friend from before.

I know that a GS-14 vs the GS-13 I have now isn't that big of a jump, that I am paid well, that I have flexibility, am a remote employee, that I don't have to kill myself, that I enjoy my job, that I probably wouldn't be happier in that job even w/the increaseed salary, but I just can't let it go...  I realize that we are on the right path financially, and being at the same salary forever would be just fine, we are on the right track.  So why am I so upset?  I do data analysis so I know the numbers, I run them all the time, I know how much more I'll get per year, in a pension, what that would compound to over time, etc.  The end result is always "I'd have more money, but really don't need more money". 

I enjoy my family, where I live, nature, I coach soccer on the side every day of the week (1 of the teams is my middle son), my house, my old car, being remote, watching my children grow, not being stressed out, being able to exercise daily.  So what do I need to do to let that go and come to grips with the fact that being promoted probably isn't what's best for me and to be happy by not being promoted?

[Laura33]

You're upset because you weren't treated fairly by people you trusted.  Period.  You can realize that the ultimate result may be a blessing in disguise while still being upset with how they got there. 

Time heals nothing -- it's what you do with the time to process the bad thing that happened.  And the first part of that isn't trying to cheer yourself up by telling yourself all of the reasons it's for the best.  It's to allow yourself to be upset because this bad thing happened and it wasn't fair. 

If taking some time just to be mad and disappointed doesn't do it, then take some time to ask yourself what you perceive the promotion as providing that you aren't currently getting from your job.  Recognition or visibility, particularly now that your former boss/advocate has retired?  Respect for the value you create?  Lack of challenge and opportunities for growth?  If something is getting under your skin and just won't leave you alone, put some time into figuring out what it is and what other paths are available to you to scratch that itch.

[Metalcat]

I agree with taking time and emotional space to be angry.

I can tell you though as the person who has made a lot of executive decisions that have offended a lot of staff, it's never been personal, and I've never given their feelings much thought beyond "fuck, I might have to smooth this over because I know person X feels entitled to this role". That's never, ever stopped me though, or even given me a moment of pause in staffing a position the way I feel it needs to be staffed.

It's also entirely possible that your management know you are good in your role and know that "attending more stupid meetings" would be a bad fit for you. Maybe, maybe not.

Regardless, unless you think your boss actively wants you to quit, then chances are none of this is even remotely personal. So go ahead and be angry for a little while, and then put it away and move on past it.

That said, it's entirely reasonable to approach your manager and ask why you weren't considered for the role. For me, I would do this even if I had no interest in a promotion. If I thought I were the obvious choice, I would reasonably expect an explanation why I wasn't an option. I would consider it a normal part of communication with my manager.

So once you get past the initial anger, then it's very advisable to approach it from a "I want to better understand how management perceives my work and my future here" kind of conversation.

[Beach_Stache]

You're upset because you weren't treated fairly by people you trusted.  Period.

@Laura33 - you just saved me a lot of money on a therapist!  I think that is spot on.

[Beach_Stache]

I agree with taking time and emotional space to be angry.

I can tell you though as the person who has made a lot of executive decisions that have offended a lot of staff, it's never been personal, and I've never given their feelings much thought beyond "fuck, I might have to smooth this over because I know person X feels entitled to this role". That's never, ever stopped me though, or even given me a moment of pause in staffing a position the way I feel it needs to be staffed.

It's also entirely possible that your management know you are good in your role and know that "attending more stupid meetings" would be a bad fit for you. Maybe, maybe not.

Regardless, unless you think your boss actively wants you to quit, then chances are none of this is even remotely personal. So go ahead and be angry for a little while, and them put it away and move on past it.

That said, it's entirely reasonable to approach your manager and ask why you weren't considered for the role. For me, I would do this even if I had no interest in a promotion. If I thought I were the obvious choice, I would reasonably expect an explanation why I wasn't an option. I would consider it a normal part of communication with my manager.

So once you get past the initial anger, then it's very advisable to approach it from a "I want to better understand how management perceives my work and my future here" kind of conversation.

@Malcat, I think you are right.  My new boss wanted what she wanted, an organizer.  I can't fault that and I don't fault that.  I am creative and produce things that are helpful, the other person is a project manager, so lots of spreadsheets, follow ups, employee babysitting on tasks, swimlanes, all that.  I think my big issue is that my role is not typical in the gov't, it's normally contracted out.  Nobody in my office does what I do so it can be hard to explain to managers what I do, how long it takes, etc.  I am not a project manager though, well at least I don't enjoy it.  I think I would have been okay not being selected, but my boss (who has only been so for a few months) basically lied to me in that I asked specifically when that position would be open, but she went behind my back in recruiting this person, not opening the position, not telling me what she was going to do, etc.  I am mad and I would have been mad no matter what, but could have gotten over it if I felt like I wasn't being lied to and disrespected.  I've gotten top ratings every year, top bonus every year, awards every year.  I think my office knows what they have and want to keep me there so do those small things to keep me happy, and probably want to keep me in this position.  In the gov't you can really only get promoted as a manager.  There are a few slots as team leads if things have fallen into your lap, but generally you are an analyst until you are a manager and that's your only way of being promoted. 

I guess I'm just really upset as a "direct hire" without an open job listing has NEVER happened in my office.  They send out the email to everyone to apply anytime .  I have applied for other things that were not within my area (including her position which I was interviewed for years ago) really just to use the 30 minutes to stand on my soap box and give my ideas to leadership, tell them the cool things I'm doing, etc.  I would have done the same for this, trying to elevate my status, as I'm very much behind the scenes.  Lots within my office take work that I've done, 95% of the study complete, hand it off and then they put a bow on it and present it as their own.  So I get credit for things, but not to the extent.

I guess in the end, I would expect more from my manager, as management is dealing w/projects but also dealing w/people and it seems very clear to me going forward that she's not thinking of her subordinates that way, which is just upsetting to me even more as I always think of "workers" as people, everyone w/things going on, feelings and emotions and all that, especially since we've had this conversation many different times. 

[Metalcat]

Personally, I would not be looping staff in on my hiring process just because they expressed interest in a position. I would also not consider any of these decisions as being "behind your back" because you are not in a position to be privy to hiring decisions from what it sounds like.

I've held enormous amounts of information from my staff over the years, it's a very normal part of running a business. Staff are not entitled to information they are not entitled to. It can be frustrating as a staff member, but again, try not to take it personally. Your manager didn't lie to you to try a deceive you, your manager chose not to share sensitive HR decisions with you, which is a normal thing for a manager to do.

It would be prudent for your manager to take you aside and account for your feelings. A good manager would know that they'll have to manage your disappointment with the process, but beyond that, expecting to have information about hiring processes is unfortunately not reasonable.

Your manager may in fact be uncaring, and it doesn't sound like you two have the best dynamic. However, don't make that into something it isn't. Its okay to think your manager kind of sucks, but I can tell you objectively as a third party observer that I don't see anything wrong with what your manager has done in this hiring process. The only failure I see is that they didn't go out of their way to talk to you and smooth things over, since they should have known you would be upset.

[Beach_Stache]

Personally, I would not be looping staff in on my hiring process just because they expressed interest in a position. I would also not consider any of these decisions as being "behind your back" because you are not in a position to be privy to hiring decisions from what it sounds like.

I've held enormous amounts of information from my staff over the years, it's a very normal part of running a business. Staff are not entitled to information they are not entitled to. It can be frustrating as a staff member, but again, try not to take it personally. Your manager didn't lie to you to try a deceive you, your manager chose not to share sensitive HR decisions with you, which is a normal thing for a manager to do.

It would be prudent for your manager to take you aside and account for your feelings. A good manager would know that they'll have to manage your disappointment with the process, but beyond that, expecting to have information about hiring processes is unfortunately not reasonable.

Your manager may in fact be uncaring, and it doesn't sound like you two have the best dynamic. However, don't make that into something it isn't. Its okay to think your manager kind of sucks, but I can tell you objectively as a third party observer that I don't see anything wrong with what your manager has done in this hiring process. The only failure I see is that they didn't go out of their way to talk to you and smooth things over, since they should have known you would be upset.

@Malcat - this is a government position, not a for-profit company.  The precedence that my office has set is not only to publicly list all open positions, but also to have HR send a direct message out to every government employee in the office with a description of the position, the link, dates open and closed, etc.  This is the first position I've seen in my office that has not been sent out directly.  So this not being an open position is really just a slap in the face.  Not only to me, but to my fellow employees within my branch - 1 other that I would think may have liked to apply for the position (probably not b/c she doesn't seem to take stress well).  So this is not normal behavior for the government, not normal behavior for my office/branch/division either.  Sure, private sector do what you will but that's not how things have always worked in my office.

I also have (had) a great relationship with my manager.  She's been my close friend for over a decade, we get on very well, socialize outside of work, etc.  I was totally fine when she was my team lead, I also expected her and pushed her to go for my retired bosses position and wanted her to be my boss.  I expect managers to make manager positions, I've fine w/all that, but I'm not fine with her doing things totally against the norm for the very first time, when she's still within her first year as a gov't manager, when I've been qualified enough to get interviews for this specific position in the past, when we've had these conversations.  If she approached me before this and said "this is what's going to happen" then I would accept that, maybe I wouldn't have been happy about it and asked for an interview anyways to stand on my soap box, but I would have accepted it.  I would have also respected her a lot more than lying to my face and working things behind my back against the standard of our office.  As the saying goes, respect is not given, it's earned, and she lost a lot of my respect and it's hard for me to go back to the way things were, and I certainly feel that she has to earn my trust and respect again as my manager (which she did have before).

[Metalcat]

Sorry, for some reason in my reading of things, I interpreted that you didn't have a good relationship with your manager.

[mm1970]

You're upset because you weren't treated fairly by people you trusted.  Period.

@Laura33 - you just saved me a lot of money on a therapist!  I think that is spot on.

Laura is wise.  And I want to add to it.

Years ago, as our company was growing - I took on a lot of varying responsibilities and promotions.  From being an engineer, so being offered the engineering manager position (turned it down), to being offered a sustaining manager position (took that one), etc.  I've been here over 10 years and have moved around a lot.

Oh, about 5 years or so, we'd grown and shrunk and grown again (you want to know what REALLY hurts?  When you "shrink" and suddenly the President says "oh mm1970, you can't be in charge of that project, your boss has to be".  Um...I've been in charge of people and projects for 5 years dude!  I didn't suddenly lose my skills!  Whatever.)

Big bosses decide they needed a Program Manager to keep track of all of the projects and direct all of the development efforts.  They write up a job requisition.  My first thought "uhhh...I do all this".  I was first a bit pissed that they didn't even talk to me about it, they just went out and hired someone else.  This guy was great.  Organized, calm, but an outsider.  So, basically, he was always in my office asking how to do a lot of things.  He gave me credit though in all his meetings.  That was nice.

Well, we shrunk again.  We lost a few people and he decided to switch groups and then he quit entirely (his family was half way across the country).  So, guess who got promoted to that job, 2-3 years later?  Except by then, I knew I didn't want it.  I was not given a choice.

So yeah, I'm the program manager.  All those things that are really important that the boss wanted in the position?  They are really important.  They also, in many ways, suck donkey balls.  Especially at a company that has no actual project managers. 

(It sucks to not be considered...earlier in my career, my immediate supervisor, the engineering manager transferred to a new group.  I was the natural person to take over, as I'd turned the job down a couple of years before and was doing a large amount of the work already.  BUT the reason my supervisor quit is because his new boss was a complete asshat.   New boss decided that he himself would just cover the work until they found "the right person".  I knew I was never going to be the right person to him.  As soon as I could, I transferred to a different department.)

TLDR, you are better off in the long run, try not to take it personally, it's rarely personal.

[Poor Rod]

Not knowing anything about your organization, something seems a bit unusual about the situation. In my experience, a GS-14 is a supervisory position. Such a position can't be filled by a contractor, as contractors cannot supervise government personnel. So I guess it was a non-supervisory position. Nice work if you can get it.

Is it possible the position was either transfered and filled elsewhere in the organization? Or perhaps it was an overhire position, and now that it is vacant it was eliminated to match your authorized organization structure? With the position gone, the actual work could be contracted out.

You don't say how much longer you have untill retirement, but don't discount the difference between GS-13 and GS-14 pay, especially if you are in the higher steps of GS-13. At some point you will be stuck at step 10. Been there, done that at GS-12. While the difference on pay in your first year isn't a huge jump, you are back in line for the within grade increases. If you are more than three years away from retirement, the impact on your high three is noticable, and even more so if you are more than three years away.

[Beach_Stache]

Not knowing anything about your organization, something seems a bit unusual about the situation. In my experience, a GS-14 is a supervisory position. Such a position can't be filled by a contractor, as contractors cannot supervise government personnel. So I guess it was a non-supervisory position. Nice work if you can get it.

Is it possible the position was either transfered and filled elsewhere in the organization? Or perhaps it was an overhire position, and now that it is vacant it was eliminated to match your authorized organization structure? With the position gone, the actual work could be contracted out.

You don't say how much longer you have untill retirement, but don't discount the difference between GS-13 and GS-14 pay, especially if you are in the higher steps of GS-13. At some point you will be stuck at step 10. Been there, done that at GS-12. While the difference on pay in your first year isn't a huge jump, you are back in line for the within grade increases. If you are more than three years away from retirement, the impact on your high three is noticable, and even more so if you are more than three years away.

It's a 14 gov't position which was filled by the contractor at the GS-14 position.  So she went from a contractor position to a GS employee and is now my team lead.  Our organization went through a re-org a few times, we are trying to slim down FTE's so maybe 1 out of 3 retiree's have been backfilled, like for like positions.  So this was from an open position that my team lead left vacant when she became the Branch Chief.  I am a GS13-10, have been for a few years, so I'm stepped out.  I've been gov't for 12.5 years, so have another 16.5 until I'm at MRA (57) and 17.5 years until I hit 30 years (58 years old).  What I don't want to do is become an old disgruntled employee who stays in the same step forever.  I got promoted and moved up very fast early on b/c of my work and what I was doing, but now there is really no upward movement, and with the decrease in gov't employees there really isn't any room for growth for the foreseeable future unless I leave.  Being a full time telework employee in my area makes that really challenging though, as organizations don't want to hire remote employees as FEDS.  I could leave the public sector, but I'm really not interested in that at this time. 

[thurston howell iv]

After reading this I was a little torn on responding. Just my .02...

1. What an agency has done in the past is not set in stone. With all of the hiring authorities out there, it does not have to be the same old way they've always done it. They do not owe employees explanations. Most employees would like to be included in decisions, but ultimately it's leadership that drives this boat.

2. GS 13-15 is often supervisory, but not always. There are many non-supervisory GS 13-15's out there.

3. If you are concerned about being stepped out at 13/10, the agency is not forcing you to stay. There's tons of jobs out there. If you are a "data" person, there's even more opportunity in the Fed.   Why not take a look and see who's hiring? You might be surprised.

4. Expanded telework/remote work will soon become more accessible to Feds. Lots of agencies are moving in that direction- even the stubborn ones- as long as the work is conducive to that sort of work situation.

5. You might consider this "slight" as a blessing in disguise. Maybe at your level you've gotten comfortable. Maybe this event makes you reconsider and look for a new opportunity. I know that I've had similar feelings in the past and those "events" were always the ones that pushed me to the next level.

Again, just my .02

[Beach_Stache]

After reading this I was a little torn on responding. Just my .02...

1. What an agency has done in the past is not set in stone. With all of the hiring authorities out there, it does not have to be the same old way they've always done it. They do not owe employees explanations. Most employees would like to be included in decisions, but ultimately it's leadership that drives this boat.

2. GS 13-15 is often supervisory, but not always. There are many non-supervisory GS 13-15's out there.

3. If you are concerned about being stepped out at 13/10, the agency is not forcing you to stay. There's tons of jobs out there. If you are a "data" person, there's even more opportunity in the Fed.   Why not take a look and see who's hiring? You might be surprised.

4. Expanded telework/remote work will soon become more accessible to Feds. Lots of agencies are moving in that direction- even the stubborn ones- as long as the work is conducive to that sort of work situation.

5. You might consider this "slight" as a blessing in disguise. Maybe at your level you've gotten comfortable. Maybe this event makes you reconsider and look for a new opportunity. I know that I've had similar feelings in the past and those "events" were always the ones that pushed me to the next level.

Again, just my .02

1. Yes, I agree w/this, I don't think they did anything illegal, just an a$$hole way of doing things.  They obviously knew what they wanted to do, I think leaning on a single person to make a decision and just went with it.  They don't "owe me" anything, yes, I agree, but again, management classes are all "what if" scenario's, how to handle people, deal w/situations, put out fires when it's just smoke instead of an inferno.  So while they don't owe me anything, I have top ratings every year, expressed interest in promotion and this specific job in general.  I have been through tons of management classes, manage every day in my side-hussle in dealing w/customers, and IMO it's just a recipe for disaster and moving a top performer to look for other opportunities.  If  this came up in one of the management classes I've been to in the past, I would assume that most would say that this was not the right way to handle things.
2. Yes, these are hard to find though, often you have to know someone or be in the right place at the right time, so hard to find, but I am looking/asking.
3. I agree that there are tons of jobs out there for "data people", but not a ton as a FED.  Most are contracted out and while I have searched and thought about this, I am not ready to leave the gov't yet.  Maybe I'm searching wrong, usajobs isn't a fantastic site and it all depends on how they input their job categories, but I haven't found much in terms of "data analyst" in the DoD, and almost all are for non-telework.  I got 1 interview at GSA but when I asked if it would be considered for full time telework it was DOA.  COVID situation may help, but the gov't moves very slowly and is way behind on the current workplace trends, so I don't expect too many full time telework positions anytime soon.
4. I think some are moving their current workforce in this direction due to circumstances, and may leave people in those positions as remote, and I heard a story about it and specific agencies like to boast about it.  I red a story in fedweek or something about NNSA going to virtual, having thousands of people apply to their jobs, etc. making it sound like they are cutting edge, they are hiring tons of people, and there are 4 open positions.  I think agencies like to talk about how cutting edge they are, but mostly it's run by non cutting-edge people who don't like change, want to come into the office every day, work their shift, etc.
5. Yes, I try to consider it a blessing and look at the bright side of things, how good I have it, etc.  If there were FED jobs in my area or that I could remote work for at a lateral move even, I would probably apply and see, but if there are lots of data jobs in the FED then I'm doing something wrong in my search as I'm not finding much.  I think I could snap up a public sector job quickly, even if it wasn't remote as there are lots of jobs in my area and all around the country, but I'm not willing to leave gov't just yet, especially in the current COVID climate.  I guess I'll just keep looking and see if I find something that fits well.

[thurston howell iv]

I guess it depends where you live- and your willingness to relocate. 

DoD is probably the number one employer when it comes to data, cyber, etc...  Try searching with the classification codes that pertain to your specialty.   Hot spots are going to be D.C., Virginia, Maryland, California, and Colorado.   

Most of the fed agencies are on the cusp of moving to more expanded telework and remote work. Since it's never really been a "thing" they need to develop the policy. Be patient. It's coming.

If you feel pigeonholed, you might ask for a detail opportunity in something completely different than what you do. Expand that resume and find that new opportunity. Especially, if you're willing to go to D.C.

[Beach_Stache]

I guess it depends where you live- and your willingness to relocate. 

DoD is probably the number one employer when it comes to data, cyber, etc...  Try searching with the classification codes that pertain to your specialty.   Hot spots are going to be D.C., Virginia, Maryland, California, and Colorado.   

Most of the fed agencies are on the cusp of moving to more expanded telework and remote work. Since it's never really been a "thing" they need to develop the policy. Be patient. It's coming.

If you feel pigeonholed, you might ask for a detail opportunity in something completely different than what you do. Expand that resume and find that new opportunity. Especially, if you're willing to go to D.C.

Yes, my office is in DC, working for DoD, and I relocated to a telework position a few hours south, so I drive up normally.  Lots of DoD work requires clearances though and many agencies are reluctant to do telework, but as you said, more are forced to now and probably see where it benefits them if they can get people in LCOL areas, as they are paid that locality rate, so really it benefits them as it expands the pool and also can lower the pay (as is the case with me in a LCOL area). 

I'll check out the classification codes, I'm a 0343 (Program Analyst) as that's just the standard for my office, even though I'm doing data analysis.  I think other agencies have the proper codes aligned, so maybe I'll check out how to search on specific codes to see if that opens things up.  I notice that each agency posts things a separate way, so searching for "SQL" may not have a hit for data analysts even though that's what they'll be doing mostly. 

I think a branch switch to get some experience in another field may be right, maybe I'll look to see other areas of the organization.

I'm not willing to live in DC anymore though.  I was born and raised there, spent the first 10 years working there as well and was happy to get out.  I can't deal with the traffic and people and cluster.  Once/quarter is my normal trip, sometimes more often, and by the end of the week I'm ready to not be in DC anymore.  Maybe one day after the boys are in college or working I'll change my mind, so I shouldn't close anything down.  Just not for the foreseeable future I guess.

[thurston howell iv]

You're still in a prime location.   And since you're already with DoD, it will be an easy transition.  Check out Air Force and Space Force. They are definitely moving to a significantly expanded telework/remote work posture. 

https://federalnewsnetwork.com/air-force/2020/09/were-not-going-back-air-force-leadership-says-telework-is-here-to-stay/


Most agencies want to do this but they need to get the policy in place first. Lots of rumblings- should be very soon that they start to announce with these options. In the interim, everyone is still in a Covid posture.

[Beach_Stache]

You're still in a prime location.   And since you're already with DoD, it will be an easy transition.  Check out Air Force and Space Force. They are definitely moving to a significantly expanded telework/remote work posture. 

https://federalnewsnetwork.com/air-force/2020/09/were-not-going-back-air-force-leadership-says-telework-is-here-to-stay/


Most agencies want to do this but they need to get the policy in place first. Lots of rumblings- should be very soon that they start to announce with these options. In the interim, everyone is still in a Covid posture.

Yes, I think you're right in that there will be a shift, but w/DoD typically that shift takes many years and can be impacted by administration.  I agree though that DoD will transition this way, which is a long time coming.  I'm always amazed by the amount any company (public or private) pays in real estate and office space, rather than shrinking their foot print and even going to "hoteling" where office mates come in on different days and share a cube/office.  I think it'll certainly make more thing about it.  I guess just like my organization, you transition current employees and make sure they can do their job, then maybe open up positions.  I'm basically in a holding pattern as well as life is crazy, especially w/3 school age boys.  So I guess I'll keep looking, and really after everyone is all virtual for the most part there really isn't a good reason to NOT consider it.  I wish the interview I turned down a year ago was open now...  I guess timing is everything.