Author Topic: Lack of foundations for friendship  (Read 2942 times)

light switch

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Lack of foundations for friendship
« on: February 09, 2022, 04:14:47 PM »
As a person who has been pursuing financial independence for a few years, I find that I have less and less in common with my fellow workers, friends, and neighbors. Has anyone else experienced this? Our ideas about money are wildly different. Our ideas about work, and the additional confidence/power/freedom to choose are confounding to those I work with. I nearly stopped everything yesterday to have a conversation with a manager who asked me if I could "walk faster".  I was overwhelmed with the urge to destroy any notion of her ability to influence my pace, while simultaneously slowing everything down even further by making a scene.  I do think I'm developing a "bad attitude" at work. I think it's a direct result of this FU money.  What are some strategies for being a less entitled lunatic as I get closer to my goal? Lol And how do you talk about  anything in any way with an entire world who doesn't see the same one you live in? Everyone is broke and powerless, and I'm just like,"Why!?"

Rob_bob

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Re: Lack of foundations for friendship
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2022, 07:04:45 PM »
Make friends with people you have common interests with beyond finances.  I almost never have money conversations with my friends.

Be less concerned or interested in other peoples financial status, you are just transposing your financial standards on them.

Maybe you should walk faster, maybe that FU money attitude is making you a slothful worker.  If you can't be a better employee then maybe it's time to retire or start your own business and be your own boss.

plog

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Re: Lack of foundations for friendship
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2022, 09:33:05 PM »
Quote
As a person who has been pursuing financial independence for a few years, I find that I have less and less in common with my fellow workers, friends, and neighbors.

Huh?  That makes you sound so one-dimensional.  Why does financial independence permeate every aspect of your life?
 
Despite what the internet and cable TV tells you, you can have great relationships with people who don't share your religious/political/favorite sports team/finanical independence/etc/etc/ beliefs. 

My suggestion is a few hobbies. 

Freedomin5

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Re: Lack of foundations for friendship
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2022, 11:55:54 PM »
As a person who has been pursuing financial independence for a few years, I find that I have less and less in common with my fellow workers, friends, and neighbors. Has anyone else experienced this? Our ideas about money are wildly different. Our ideas about work, and the additional confidence/power/freedom to choose are confounding to those I work with. I nearly stopped everything yesterday to have a conversation with a manager who asked me if I could "walk faster".  I was overwhelmed with the urge to destroy any notion of her ability to influence my pace, while simultaneously slowing everything down even further by making a scene.  I do think I'm developing a "bad attitude" at work. I think it's a direct result of this FU money.  What are some strategies for being a less entitled lunatic as I get closer to my goal? Lol And how do you talk about  anything in any way with an entire world who doesn't see the same one you live in? Everyone is broke and powerless, and I'm just like,"Why!?"

Nope. My ideas about money may be different, but I share other common values with my friends. Ideas about serving the community, living a simple, sustainable life, etc. I also share hobbies with my friends -- hiking and enjoying nature, crafting, etc. Being FI has given me a better attitude at work, because I'm not afraid to speak up (politely and respectfully) about difficult issues and play the devil's advocate in meetings. I don't worry about office politics and if someone doesn't agree with me at work, oh well, that's okay. I don't feel any urges to destroy other people's notions about anything. Also, I've found that there are some people at work who are also pursuing FI; they're just not very vocal about it.

six-car-habit

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Re: Lack of foundations for friendship
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2022, 02:27:23 AM »
 When we convince ourselves we have a better way of Saving / investing / working less / working smarter- we're bound to feel smug about it.

 And those that aren't making similar decisions seem inept, willfully ignorant, and heading toward a future with ample anguish - that could have been avoided with some simple tweaks to their lives.

 Most of these folks you work with can do at least 1 thing better than you, or know more about their favorite subject. Maybe they can cook some recipe better, or guzzle beer faster, or golf better than you.  Or they are a whiz at knitting, or can rattle off all the contestants on some game show you loathe. Or they have a better collection of some specific item.  Maybe their skill or collection seems unimportant to you.  Perhaps your savings skills and confidence are unimportant to them.

 Maybe the manager was afraid of being late for something, or felt she needed to get onto the next task ?

 We had a guy who would always lag behind. Say 2 guys got sent to find an item, or operate a machine, he would always go into the space 2nd, so it defaulted that the other person tended to 'take charge' or perform more of the physical work.  It became an active joke amongst his coworkers. One time my buddy swore the lazy guy had somehow gotten ahead while walking, but as they approached the elevator, 'lazy guy' slunk behind, so my buddy had to hit the elevator button instead.
  It wasn't some fear of germs thing; lazy guy was opposed to doing more than he felt obligated to, and/or didn't care that others were annoyed by his lack of action, or maybe thought he had the better strategy.  If you can leave your unsatisfying job, because you have enough saved / invested, do it - otherwise remind yourself to dial back the smugness.

light switch

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Re: Lack of foundations for friendship
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2022, 06:17:19 AM »
When we convince ourselves we have a better way of Saving / investing / working less / working smarter- we're bound to feel smug about it.

You may be on to something.  Although I specifically asked how I can find some common ground with people who don't share my experience.

Maybe the manager was afraid of being late for something, or felt she needed to get onto the next task ?

Yes, definitely she wanted something to happen faster than it was.  One out of five men volunteered for the job.  Best plan is to tell the one who volunteered to move faster.


 If you can leave your unsatisfying job, because you have enough saved / invested, do it - otherwise remind yourself to dial back the smugness.


I don't, so I'll try to be a little more self aware.  I do believe the problem is me.  Thanks for your thoughts.

Nope. My ideas about money may be different, but I share other common values with my friends. Ideas about serving the community, living a simple, sustainable life, etc. I also share hobbies with my friends -- hiking and enjoying nature, crafting, etc. Being FI has given me a better attitude at work, because I'm not afraid to speak up (politely and respectfully) about difficult issues and play the devil's advocate in meetings. I don't worry about office politics and if someone doesn't agree with me at work, oh well, that's okay. I don't feel any urges to destroy other people's notions about anything. Also, I've found that there are some people at work who are also pursuing FI; they're just not very vocal about it.

I don't disagree with you either.  I have no qualms with office politics, or people disagreeing.  I couldn't care less.  I have plenty of old friends.  We don't have any problems.  Even if we don't agree on everything.  But they are busy.  My coworkers are who I spend all my time with.  You've heard the saying that you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with?  The five people I spend the most time with are friendly, helpful, kind, and courteous.  You know what?  Never mind.  I recently switched shifts and I really like everyone I work with.  Although the job is extremely unfulfilling, it's rewarding in other ways.   

That makes you sound so one-dimensional.  Why does financial independence permeate every aspect of your life?

Ok.  I never said that financial independence permeates every aspect of my life.  You want to talk about something else?  Isn't this a FI forum?   Seems the logical place to ask. One dimensional?  That's a rhetorical question mark.

Despite what the internet and cable TV tells you, you can have great relationships with people who don't share your religious/political/favorite sports team/finanical independence/etc/etc/ beliefs.

I haven't had cable TV in over 25 years.  But it's good to know I can't depend on it.  As for the internet, I ask my questions and I get my answers.  It's up to each of us to collate the available data and make decisions based on it.

 My suggestion is a few hobbies.

I hardly see how getting a hobby would help me find common ground with my coworkers, neighbors, or friends.  It might help me make new friends.  But with a 60 hour night shift work week, it seems a little pie in the sky.  I do have an awesome hobby that almost nobody is interested in.  I'm very active on the internet with that hobby.  But we can't hang out, you know?  Everybody has jobs and kids.  Everybody is spread out across the world.  They aren't my neighbors or coworkers.  I do have a good time there.  Nobody THERE ever called me one dimensional. LOL  Please know I'm just teasing with you.

Be less concerned or interested in other peoples financial status

I genuinely couldn't care less about anyone's financial status, but my own.  I don't really see where I gave that impression.  Other than the fact that I cannot understand the never ending whine bag nonsense I hear from people who've been making close to six figures for two decades and won't even buy a new pair of boots to cover their worn out socks, that they can be reimbursed for annually.  Yet want to ask ME about taking 401K loans out for $60k trucks. 

Thanks so much to those of you who took some time to consider my questions, and formulate some responses.  I did try very hard not to defend myself from the suggestion that I am a smug, slothful, one dimensional Scrooge McDuck who believes he's secretly getting over on everyone, while simultaneously being talked about behind his back.  Although I wouldn't be terribly surprised if someone HAS said that I'm not much of a go getter.  I've tried to explain this concept before to people.  It never seems to work out, but we'll try again anyways.  My job requires brain work, followed by manual labor.  If you begin with the manual labor, you will do three to five times more of it than if you begin with the brain work.  Moving fast for the sake of moving fast is wasted effort. 

Put another way: When you take your car in for repair.  Do you want the mechanic to jump from his chair, run to your car, whip open the hood, and start ripping things out?  Or would you like him to collect as much information as possible about the problem, as deliberately as possible, before he makes a move?  Do you want him to empty the gas tank, swap out the radiator, and rotate your tires before you tell him your seatbelt isn't latching correctly?  Deliberate, focused, and somewhat slow looking work is the key to efficient repairs.  And lifting heavy things is sometimes required.  With two broken vertebrae and a hernia, please understand I will approach heavy lifting with caution. 

As for my comment about destroying notions, please forgive a little artistic description for entertainment value.  I'm not a child.  Although I do tend to react rapidly to impositions on my walking pace.  It is what is is, as they say.  Tortoise and the hare, if you will.  I'll walk slower and fix faster than most people I know.  I've got references to prove it.
Oh look at that.  I failed to not attempt to defend myself.  Darn. I'm sure I've convinced you all that you were wrong about me. HA!  (that's sarcasm) I hate to type that out, but it's hard to write and be received the way you intended.  I'm sure you all understand.

Anyways, I honestly do thank you all.  You've all definitely given me some things to think about and consider.  We don't always get the answers we want to hear, but perhaps there's some wisdom there that I needed to read from someone else's perspective.  If a simple paragraph long question gave me so many negative labels, just imagine what people who actually KNOW me think!  I might be unbearable!  SO....Thank you all again.  Have a great week, and I wish you all the best on your journey.

BZB

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Re: Lack of foundations for friendship
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2022, 06:31:51 AM »
You asked how to find common ground with people who don't share your experience. Food can be an equalizer, and sharing a meal with someone allows you to get to know them better. Everybody from every walk of life has to eat, and people love to talk about their favorite meals. Can you try a weekly lunch with your coworkers?

Dicey

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Re: Lack of foundations for friendship
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2022, 06:43:58 AM »
Wow. I was going to offer some suggestions, but based on your replies, I can see they wouldn't fit into your very narrow parameters, so I'll just with you the best of luck on your FIRE journey.

Fishindude

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Re: Lack of foundations for friendship
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2022, 12:20:35 PM »
Quote
As a person who has been pursuing financial independence for a few years, I find that I have less and less in common with my fellow workers, friends, and neighbors.

Huh?  That makes you sound so one-dimensional.  Why does financial independence permeate every aspect of your life?
 
Despite what the internet and cable TV tells you, you can have great relationships with people who don't share your religious/political/favorite sports team/finanical independence/etc/etc/ beliefs. 

My suggestion is a few hobbies.

Great advice here.
Just calm down and appreciate the good things all around you.

former player

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Re: Lack of foundations for friendship
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2022, 01:09:19 PM »
If I were the person doing a full-time job involving manual work and my manager asked me if I could "walk faster" I'd be tempted to have words with them as well.  40 hours of manual work 48 or 50 weeks a year for 40 years wears a body out and the only way to survive it is to pace yourself.  As long as you are getting the job done then going beyond that, in a manual job, would be free money for the company on the back of your own body and as far as I'm concerned the company can go whistle.

six-car-habit

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Re: Lack of foundations for friendship
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2022, 01:21:53 PM »
  I think you and i may be in a similar occupation light-switch.
    At my job, our crews work extended swing and/or grave hours with a crew of less than 20. who in the big scheme of things, have an outsized influence whether our customers receive power and utilities, fresh water etc.    Often when things are ' running smoothly' and clients are happy with the service; we are cobbling things together behind the scenes, and needing to make last minute or 'emergency' decisions on issues that had not been considered when the Standard Ops Procedure was written.

 I'm glad you're on a shift or crew more to your liking.   You hit on a big aspect that influences me to stay where i'm at - when you said - " Although the job is extremely unfulfilling. it's rewarding in other ways. "

 One of the guys on my crew makes a bit more $$ than me. We used to make the same amount but i took a lower paying position for more 'freedom' at work. He is similar to your co-workers in that he has made 100-115K for the last 10+ years, lives in the same 30 mile radius as the rest of us.  He is fighting with his girlfriend, and he lives in her house.  A few of us told him to move out and get his own place.  The guy is age 45+. He can't seem to come up with 1st/ last / security deposit.  He has no children or exes to contend with, and no real $$ obligations except to his own wants.  It makes Me feel Smug, knowing i make better financial choices, just as i imagine you feel smug about the dude asking about a 401K loan for-a-truck-plan, knowing you wouldn't make the same mistake.

clarkfan1979

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Re: Lack of foundations for friendship
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2022, 01:50:52 PM »
It's ok to stick up for yourself. However, don't be a dick. Most people know the difference.

I don't have much in common with my co-workers related to personal finance. However, it's pretty easy to find other things in common (food & hobbies).

Zikoris

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Re: Lack of foundations for friendship
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2022, 04:49:59 PM »
Slow walkers are very widely hated because walking with one is incredibly aggravating and soul-sucking. So if you're slow enough that someone actually cracks and tells you to walk faster, you should know that there are probably many, many more people who are quietly suffering but won't say anything because they're polite. So that's something to keep in mind anyways.

More on-topic, I really am a fan of keeping work and personal life separate. I don't have any expectations of becoming best buddies with people whose only thing in common is that we both have bills to pay. Of course you should be friendly and all that, but I think it makes a lot more sense to find friends through hobbies or special interest groups where you have things in common.

former player

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Re: Lack of foundations for friendship
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2022, 05:16:40 PM »
Fast walkers are very widely hated because walking with one is incredibly aggravating and soul-sucking. So if you're fast enough that someone actually cracks and tells you to walk slower, you should know that there are probably many, many more people who are quietly suffering but won't say anything because they're polite. So that's something to keep in mind anyways.

Zikoris

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Re: Lack of foundations for friendship
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2022, 05:58:32 PM »
Fast walkers are very widely hated because walking with one is incredibly aggravating and soul-sucking. So if you're fast enough that someone actually cracks and tells you to walk slower, you should know that there are probably many, many more people who are quietly suffering but won't say anything because they're polite. So that's something to keep in mind anyways.

Found the slowpoke.

former player

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Re: Lack of foundations for friendship
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2022, 06:16:39 PM »
Fast walkers are very widely hated because walking with one is incredibly aggravating and soul-sucking. So if you're fast enough that someone actually cracks and tells you to walk slower, you should know that there are probably many, many more people who are quietly suffering but won't say anything because they're polite. So that's something to keep in mind anyways.

Found the slowpoke.
Yup.

Tyson

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Re: Lack of foundations for friendship
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2022, 11:34:18 AM »
As a person who has been pursuing financial independence for a few years, I find that I have less and less in common with my fellow workers, friends, and neighbors. Has anyone else experienced this? Our ideas about money are wildly different. Our ideas about work, and the additional confidence/power/freedom to choose are confounding to those I work with. I nearly stopped everything yesterday to have a conversation with a manager who asked me if I could "walk faster".  I was overwhelmed with the urge to destroy any notion of her ability to influence my pace, while simultaneously slowing everything down even further by making a scene.  I do think I'm developing a "bad attitude" at work. I think it's a direct result of this FU money.  What are some strategies for being a less entitled lunatic as I get closer to my goal? Lol And how do you talk about  anything in any way with an entire world who doesn't see the same one you live in? Everyone is broke and powerless, and I'm just like,"Why!?"

A more useful way to think of FIRE is to imagine that it removes barriers from your life, allowing you to spend your time with the things/people you truly love.  Even though I'm fairly mustachian, almost no one else in my life is.  Doesn't mean they are not cool/interesting/fun people.  Just means we don't have much overlap with regards to finances.  So we just focus on the things that we do have in common and that's quite enjoyable. 

mastrr

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Re: Lack of foundations for friendship
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2022, 07:35:45 PM »
What are some strategies for being a less entitled lunatic as I get closer to my goal? "

Realizing that God or life circumstances (factors outside of your control) can sit you down at any time regardless of how successful you think you are.

Dicey

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Re: Lack of foundations for friendship
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2022, 04:02:27 AM »
What are some strategies for being a less entitled lunatic as I get closer to my goal? "

Realizing that God or life circumstances (factors outside of your control) can sit slap you down at any time regardless of how successful you think you are.

light switch

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Re: Lack of foundations for friendship
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2022, 04:44:07 AM »
That's a very good reminder. Hadn't been thinking about that much. Too busy feeling sorry for myself. Ouch! Thanks!

RainyDay

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Re: Lack of foundations for friendship
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2022, 10:31:35 AM »
It's possible this has less to do with financial independence and more to do with your stage of life.  From what I understand, it's pretty common for people to reach middle age (sorry, I don't know how old you are) and start thinking about what's really important to them in terms of relationships, work, hobbies, etc.  Sort of like a mid-life crisis but without the crisis.  I have personally found that while I still love my long-time friends, what bound us together 20 years ago doesn't interest me as much anymore (an expensive hobby they are still into, while I am not). 

Maybe this is also why 20-25 yr marriages sometimes fall apart?  The kids are grown and no longer a common ground, so couples realize they don't have much in common anymore.  Or the rationale that they're "staying together for the kids" is no longer there.

I know I've gotten more introspective in the past few years!  I'm 49.  I'm getting into new hobbies, but that means finding new friends in middle age, since my long-time friends are most definitely not interested.  I don't think you're a crazed entitled lunatic, but it can be tough to get passionate about something new (whether it's FI or gardening or hiking) and neither your long-time friends nor your co-workers are remotely excited about the same thing.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Lack of foundations for friendship
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2022, 03:45:31 PM »
I think that it's important to keep in mind that a FIRE mindset, and the practices that come with it, are a means to an end, and not an end in themselves.  As Tyson pointed out, the point of FIRE is to free you to spend your time on things that bring you greater joy in life, whether it's working on a hobby, spending time with family, working a lower-paying job that you enjoy more, etc.

If your coworkers are entirely one-dimensional, always complaining about how they don't have enough money and The Man is keeping them down and how they're going to work until they're 75, and that's the only thing they can talk about, then I can understand feeling disconnected.  But if you have interests other than FIRE, I'd be shocked if you couldn't find *anything* else to share with your coworkers.

jac941

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Re: Lack of foundations for friendship
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2022, 06:39:26 PM »
More on-topic, I really am a fan of keeping work and personal life separate. I don't have any expectations of becoming best buddies with people whose only thing in common is that we both have bills to pay. Of course you should be friendly and all that, but I think it makes a lot more sense to find friends through hobbies or special interest groups where you have things in common.

This. I am friends with very few coworkers. And it’s always been that way. I’m friendly at work, occasionally join folks for lunch, and rarely make long term (survive me or them leaving the job) friends. I prefer to focus my efforts on people outside of work. And I tend to put the most energy into people who make themselves available vs people with the most similar interests. I used to focus on people with similar interests but recently realized it doesn’t matter how much you have in common if the other person doesn’t make space in their calendar for friend time. So now I just prioritize people who make space in their calendars to be with other people. And I find that I have more close friends as a result.

light switch

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Re: Lack of foundations for friendship
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2022, 04:25:04 AM »
Well it could be more about my stage in life. I have this overwhelming feeling that "something" is wrong, and I'm trying to sort out what that something is. I've recently changed jobs. I lost a lot of status with that move, along with my shift preference. My wife is working fifty hours a week now too on the opposite shift. So I barely see her. I barely get any hobby time either because of the work commitment.  The house is a mess.  I get some of that seasonal depression as well. Which could account for all of my malaise actually. Lol. Maybe it's got nothing to do with FI and friendships at all.
Usually I'm exercising everyday by this time of the season. Which is another thing that's fallen to the wayside while I navigate this new job and schedule.  It all bears thinking about.
I probably ought to figure a way to get back to exercise first. Most everything is less serious when I've had a good workout. Thanks everyone! I'm a little embarrassed to have made those admissions, but I think you all have helped me get a little bit of a handle on things.  But truly, as my dissatisfaction with things grow, there's that little voice in the back of my head saying, " You don't have to put up with this! Quit! You'll be fine!"  While another one is saying, "Do that and you can kiss your FI goodbye!"  Who knows?

Paper Chaser

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Re: Lack of foundations for friendship
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2022, 05:59:13 AM »
Sounds like you just lack meaningful relationships/connection right now with your wife having an opposite schedule.
There's also a lot of disorder that's not normally present in your life, so hearing about other people's disorder/chaos is probably distressing.

I like the idea of increasing physical activity. It has helped me bust out of a funk multiple times in my life.

GreenSheep

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Re: Lack of foundations for friendship
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2022, 09:56:01 AM »
I like the idea of increasing physical activity. It has helped me bust out of a funk multiple times in my life.

Yep. There have been plenty of times when I really didn't want to go for a run or a hike or whatever, but I dragged myself out there, and I always felt better when I finished. This is true for sleep, too. Almost everything is easier to handle after a good night's sleep... which is often made easier by exercise!

I really like what someone said above about making yourself available for friends who also make time for you, rather than focusing on people with whom you share interests. Unless you (or they) are a total bore, chances are good that you can find something in common, and making time for each other is a huge step toward finding that something. I moved to a new state recently, and most of the people I've met are very nice, and we even have things in common... but they have 7 kids or their husband is running for political office or they work 60 hours a week or... so I've been sitting back and making myself available to people who are also available rather than trying to force friendships with people who are too busy, even if those people are the ones I think I like more or have more in common with.