Author Topic: Kansas City, MO for ER?  (Read 10248 times)

frugalJD

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 29
  • Location: California
Kansas City, MO for ER?
« on: July 29, 2015, 05:37:01 PM »
Hi All,

Although my wife and I are still some years away from ER, we often talk about places we'd consider living once we reach it.  On our cross country road trip last August, we both loved our short time in KC and have been kicking around the idea of moving there someday. 

I'd greatly appreciate any insight from those who currently live there or have in the past.  Some specific topics I'd be interested in include: particular areas to consider or avoid, weather, schools, and outdoor life.  I'm familiar with and have read about many fun things the city has to offer (such as culture, sports, BBQ, beer).  Any advice on other things (good or bad) that one should consider are appreciated. 

I searched the forum and see that there are some KC Mustachians here, but couldn't find a lot re: what living there is actually like. Apologies if I missed something.

Thanks!
-JD

ltt

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 740
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2015, 09:49:57 PM »
Have traveled to KC a lot.  It's a nice town.  They've got a great farmer's market, fun things for kids to do if you have grandkids, professional sports teams, Union Station, Worlds of Fun and Oceans of Fun, Hallmark.  Property will be similar in price to pretty much everything else in the Midwest.  I'm not into BBQ, but hear it's good there.  The weather is similar to pretty much everywhere in the Midwest---cold winters, hot summers, and tornadoes (though those seem to be south of K.C.).  Kansas City, KS is directly to the west of KC, MO.  They've got a Nascar speedway, they've got a fantastic renaissance festival right around the corner in Bonner Springs, the Moon Marble company (Bonner Springs), shopping, and the tallest water slide in the world!!  Honestly, there is so much to do in both KC areas. 

Calvawt

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 332
  • Location: Central CA
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2015, 10:40:31 PM »
I would recommend living on the Kansas side personally.  Lenexa and mission are both nice.  Overland Park gets a little more pricey, but has lots of amenities.  KC bbq is the best!

Cost of living is very moderate.  Heating and cooling can add up so an energy efficient house helps.  You will want a basement for tornados/serious thunder storms.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Neustache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1187
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2015, 06:02:21 AM »
2nd the basement suggestion - not because you'll ever be in a tornado, but you'll have lots of warnings where you'll need to be down in a basement. 

I've lived on the Missouri side since I was born.  I live in Raytown/East KC - the schools (Raytown) look like they suck on Great Schools, but we like our local school and our neighborhood is great.   Walkability in this suburb is not great.  You really have to think about where you want to live if you want to walk/bike a lot.  Maybe others can chime in on that aspect if it's important to you.

We are hikers.....but are just now exploring our area.  We are...uh...spoiled by hiking in national parks so it's taking some adjusting to hiking here.  But there are great places to hike it's just not as nice as say....Zion or Glacier.  :D  There's lots of area lakes and conservation areas if you boat/canoe/fish/raft.   There's some really cool hikes in SE MO that we want to explore in a weekend - probably in the fall. 

One thing I like, is that we are day away (driving) to lots of great places.  St. Louis/Denver/Chicago/Minneapolis/Branson (if that's your thing)/Black Hills etc.  I like living here and then having the option to be on the mountains after a day's trip if I want to be - but we are avid road trippers.

If you are used to traffic, and don't mind it, sure, live on the KS side.  If you like to live in the city, there's a strong movement of people living downtown - it wasn't that way 20 years ago. Basically, if you like the suburbs, the common wisdom real estate-wise is to stay outside of the 435 loop.  Otherwise you need some help picking a good spot.

The weather is great in the spring/fall.  Summer (right now) sucks but it just makes you appreciate fall when it comes! 

Any specific questions? 


boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7849
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2015, 06:22:33 AM »
To blanket say you should live on the KS side is absurd.  Depending on what you're looking for you can find it on either side of the state line.  there is not really any traffic to speak of.  I live in KC and travel alot for work.  We don't have traffic here no matter what part of the city you live in.  Lots of awesome lakes you can live in/on/around the city.  I live in probably the most affordable lake community in KC.  (yeah we have an HOA) but its ultra cost effective.  450 a year gets you access to our community owned private 250 acre lake, pool/waterpark, soon to be major discounts at the golf course across the street, parties thrown once a month at the club house that include live music(2x year) free food always and BYOB.  There is a pontoon you can rent for 300 bucks for the day if you want to get out on the water and dont want to own a boat. 

Everything in this city is pretty cost effective.  The city itself has some bad parts of town but what city doesnt.  best school districts are Lees Summit and Blue Valley, both in suburbs.  Both have high taxes to support these schools.  shawnee mission schools are good/bad depending on the area you are in.  its a pretty large place with a lot of different options.  There are not a lot of awesome places to hike in and around immediate KC most are a few hours drive away.  but there are many parks and free things to do.  the plaza, the neslon atkins museum, loose park,

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7849
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2015, 06:24:30 AM »
Also living here i would probably move away for FIRE ... to one of the larger lakes in MO with a good school district. 

But as far as cost of living. 

We live on a lake with a boat we use a ton and spend around 45k a year not counting our mortgage.  and we travel ALOT.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 06:28:49 AM by boarder42 »

Neustache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1187
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2015, 06:28:25 AM »
I find the side streets in OP and LS loaded up with traffic...but I've found that I am NOT a city girl, and my definition of traffic is not the same as someone who is used to it.   

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7849
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2015, 06:29:56 AM »
I find the side streets in OP and LS loaded up with traffic...but I've found that I am NOT a city girl, and my definition of traffic is not the same as someone who is used to it.

go to any other major city in the country.  we dont have traffic.  unless there is a major wreck rush hour is from 430-530 and its over.

Neustache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1187
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2015, 06:33:09 AM »
Oh, I've been to other cities - on our last road trip we went to Bellevue WA, Los Angeles, and San Fran.  I hated the traffic there, too, and it is much worse there, for sure.   I just like small towns, and even 291 sucks to me and would have been a con if we had moved to LS.   Raytown has a small town feel, and I can get from one side to the other without a million lights. 

But dang, boarder42, you make me want to live where you live! Ha!  I'm surprised the HOA fees aren't worse.  Lakewood is like 1200 a year, which I think is nuts. 



boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7849
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2015, 06:36:45 AM »
Yep cheapest lake in KC.  i did extensive research to find what met my needs.  Its part of the city of lees summit too. and actually bridges the raymore school district, so you can get away from the insane LS property taxes.  raintree actually has a lake cost comparison chart on their website that shows how much cheaper they are than anyone else.

frugalJD

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 29
  • Location: California
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2015, 11:08:09 AM »
Thank you all very much. 

We're really into road tripping as well; that's a great point to keep in mind how many places you can drive to in a day. 

We live in a very high COL area with an absurd amount of traffic, sounds like not the case in KC :)  Good to know about tornadoes/tornado warnings (I wasn't sure how common they were).  We're both very big on walking too, whether it be in the neighborhood, trails, etc.  I think being within walking distance of a lake would be a big plus for us.

Looks like there's some nice, affordable homes in Raytown and Lees Summit.  We'll have to check it out when we go back (planning another road trip in the Spring).

Thanks!

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7849
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2015, 11:13:20 AM »
we live in the lake encompassed by zip code 64082 takes we live across the street from a large pond and a 7 minute walk from the 250 acre lake.

thd7t

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1308
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2015, 11:15:42 AM »
Do you have family in the mid-west?  If not, are you willing to include travel in your FIRE budget (or do you want to)?  My wife and I lived in St. Louis for two years and really liked the mid-west, but for us, it was too far from our families.

Cpa Cat

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1572
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2015, 11:21:31 AM »
Some things to keep in mind:

Currently, KCMO has a 1% tax on Earned Income, which you can avoid by living on the Kansas side or choosing a MO suburb. It's not much, and not pertinent if you're not planning on working part time.

Currently self-employment income is tax-exempt in Kansas (including ordinary income from S-Corps). The current Kansas governor has expressed an interest in having the state go totally income tax free eventually. Budget problems might change the direction that Kansas taxes are heading, but it's something to keep an eye on.

Otherwise, it's hot here (I live nearby), in the Summer. And the Summer is long. If I were to move here again, I'd get a pool - even though it's unmustachian. :)

Neustache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1187
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2015, 11:43:23 AM »
Also, if you work at all in KC in your retirement, there's a 1% tax, no matter where you live.  Now, CpaCat - does that 1% include retirement income?  I've never bothered to figure out what it included, besides W2 wages. 

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7849
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2015, 11:59:47 AM »
Also, if you work at all in KC in your retirement, there's a 1% tax, no matter where you live.  Now, CpaCat - does that 1% include retirement income?  I've never bothered to figure out what it included, besides W2 wages.

1% tax in KC is if you

1. live in the city limits of KCMO - its a 1% tax on all income
2. if you work in the city limits of KCMO - its a 1% tax on all income earned working in that location
  ie. i travel for work.  i'm out of the city 50% of the year.  i only pay tax on actual hours worked in KCMO city limits.  i file a tax return and get 50% back each year

Retirement income would only be taxed if you lived in the city limits of KCMO

Trudie

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1662
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2015, 12:16:10 PM »
We just visited KC in March.  We loved our visit.  We stayed to the south of downtown in a VRBO in a fantastic historical neighborhood.  We visited some great museums, had lots of great food.  I thought the city was green and lush and had some neat architecture.  But, of course there would be big differences living there versus visiting.

I did notice that their sales tax was high (in the 8% range) and that it applied to everything -- including groceries and meds.  I've always lived in states that exempt those things.  That would really add up in a year, even if you didn't purchase much.


boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7849
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2015, 12:24:34 PM »
sales tax varies widely across the metro area.  in Lees summit food is taxed much lower than other goods. i cant speak to the whole area though.

Cpa Cat

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1572
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2015, 12:36:24 PM »
I couldn't find a reference to a resident tax on all income. I was under the impression that KCMO's tax is only on earned income.

But I am interested in finding out if I'm wrong!

iamsoners

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 178
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2015, 12:36:52 PM »
I'll add my 2 cents..

KC makes a great FIRE spot.  Cheap cost of living, lots of cheap and free activities available--especially if you like watching sports (Chiefs/Royals/KU bball/MU football/Sporting KC--people love to cook out and watch the games here), are into arts (several free galleries, a monthly art walk and several fairs throughout the year) or music (lots of great venues).

You have to be intentional about finding a place to live that's walkable--yes, someone here has mentioned great lake living but most likely you have to drive to everything for that privilege.  The city is very spread out--we are huge soccer fans but who wants to drive 25 miles to watch the games? Personally, not me.  Anyways, there are several very walkable neighborhoods, both in KCMO proper and most suburbs have little downtowns as well but you just have to be intentional about seeking that out if you want it (walkscore is pretty accurate here).  Also I would say there is some hostility to bikers here--same as everywhere but it makes me nervous.  To get very specific about walkable areas: Downtown, Westport, Brookside and Waldo in KCMO. Mission, Downtown Overland Park and center of Prairie Village on the Kansas side.  Downtown Lee's Summit, Downtown Liberty, North KC (really great--probably where I would go if I had to do it again), downtown parkville.  I'm sure there's more but that's the scope of what I know...

Sounds like schools wouldn't be a factor but don't believe the hype, there are decent options everywhere you go. Yes, even in the KCMO school district which has magnets and charters as options (we have mandrin, spanish and french immersion, montessori and neighborhood schools all available for free--not bad for a "failing" school district).  If you don't want to be acitvely involved in seeking a good school, you can't go wrong in Lee's Summit, Liberty, Park Hill, Shawnee Mission, Blue Valley or Olathe.

Coming from the East coast, this city seems so catered to people with kids.  So many youth sports and activities, family friendly restaurants and just kids, kids, kids everywhere you go.  And it's easy to get around with them, so that helps a lot.

We do miss having easier access to decent hiking and outdoorsy things but you can certainly make do--the lakes are a few hours away, as well as a lot of canoeing and many people vacation out to Colorado which is an easy days drive. There's a decent mountain biking and trail running community and a few people that climb on the bluffs out by the river. There's even a kayak race down the MO river once a year. You have to seek out the communities for each of these things but they do exist.

I will say, coming from a larger city, I am surprised by the segregation of this city--it's bright-lined straight through the city and people will tell you not to live one place or another based on who you are.  It is built into the fabric of the city and people don't seem to even think about it or make much of an effort to bridge the gap.  It bothers the hell out of me but we do what we can to be good neighbors to everyone in the city.  Some of the Missouri suburbs (Lee's Summit for example) are better mixed, but, just something to know.

Weather-wise, you just get the depth of all four seasons, for good or for bad.  Tornadoes aren't that big of a deal--I think 2 have hit the entire metro area over the past 100 years and those haven't been big ones--but there are storms and a basement is good (though it also means dealing with inevitable wetness in the basement).

Anyways, I mostly love it here, just know what you're looking for before you move--possibly think about renting for a bit to get to know neighborhoods before you move
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 12:45:37 PM by iamsoners »

Neustache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1187
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2015, 01:26:20 PM »
I love hearing that people visit here and really like it!  Glad you enjoyed your stay, Trudie! 


Parkville - that's just a gem of a town.  Prices are kind of high, housing-wise, but if you are coming from California you'll probably laugh at that statement.  Really pretty, and a nice drive in to downtown.  I have always, always wanted to live there.   Yes, definitely check out Parkville!





dramaman

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 700
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2015, 02:05:54 PM »
There are some nice walking/bike trails throughout the KC Metro Area. The Indian Creek trail is over 17 miles, going from Kansas City, MO to Olathe, KS.

Trudie

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1662
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2015, 02:43:16 PM »
I love hearing that people visit here and really like it!  Glad you enjoyed your stay, Trudie! 


Parkville - that's just a gem of a town.  Prices are kind of high, housing-wise, but if you are coming from California you'll probably laugh at that statement.  Really pretty, and a nice drive in to downtown.  I have always, always wanted to live there.   Yes, definitely check out Parkville!

We visited for the Big 12 BB tourney and while there went to several museums (Jazz, Negro Leagues baseball), all of our tourney games, scooted through the KC Public Library downtown (which is fantastic and has a phenomenal roof).  We were staying in KC proper, but were out by Westport.  We spent a little bit of time in the Power and Light District, which is a site to behold. 

I enjoyed several morning runs on trails in one of the parks.  Sadly, I'm blanking on the names of everything now.  We were impressed with the amount of revitalization going on and regret we didn't make it to Union Station which is gorgeous.

Although we drove down we let our car sit and took Uber rides from our rental to the Sprint Center.  It was less than 5 bucks each way.  We couldn't have justified parking for that.

In general, I felt it was a fantastic mix of old and new.  I like to have shiny new things to go to (Sprint Center, Power and Light) and revitalized neighborhoods with funky shops (Raygun), but also appreciated that there's a lot of history, industrialized areas, and not everything is spit-shined.

I might also add that we were out and about clearly dressed as Iowa State fans and when in places frequented by KU fans (our big rival) were treated kindly and respectfully.  Of course, we were low-key, not drinking, and not provoking people or shouting abuse at them, but nonetheless... I was glad not to be hassled, especially when we were in areas where lots of people were hanging out.

frugalJD

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 29
  • Location: California
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2015, 03:20:06 PM »
Do you have family in the mid-west?  If not, are you willing to include travel in your FIRE budget (or do you want to)?  My wife and I lived in St. Louis for two years and really liked the mid-west, but for us, it was too far from our families.

Hi thd7t, no, no family in the midwest.  We are absolutely factoring in lots of travel back home in the budget, as most all of our family and friends are in CA. 

CPA Cat, thanks for the heads up on the 1% tax; great to know.

iamsoners: thank you.  Lots of good insight and it is much appreciated.  We definitely plan on renting before buying, regardless of where we FIRE.

I am HUGE into sports and DW knows being in a good sports town is a deal breaker for me :) 

During our very brief stay last year, we really enjoyed Kauffman Stadium, Country Club Plaza, Union Station, the Liberty Memorial, and the overall friendliness of the city (very different from the Bay Area).  I really regret that we didn't get to try the BBQ, but if it's anything like Pappy's in St. Louis sign me up.

Thanks again!

-Joe

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7849
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2015, 06:07:42 AM »
I love hearing that people visit here and really like it!  Glad you enjoyed your stay, Trudie! 


Parkville - that's just a gem of a town.  Prices are kind of high, housing-wise, but if you are coming from California you'll probably laugh at that statement.  Really pretty, and a nice drive in to downtown.  I have always, always wanted to live there.   Yes, definitely check out Parkville!



Although we drove down we let our car sit and took Uber rides from our rental to the Sprint Center.  It was less than 5 bucks each way.  We couldn't have justified parking for that.



The parking in KC is basically free.  the plaza has free parking garages, and parking at the sprint center is only 2 bucks if you just tell the guys you're going to power and light and not the sprint center.  KC is probabaly one of the cheapest downtowns to park cars in. 

(used to be if you said you were going to a movie it was FREE, still works every now and then)

Neustache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1187
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2015, 06:40:33 AM »
You hit a lot of the highlights!  I have a rental by the stadiums if you ever want to rent from me. ;-)

 If you like art, the Nelson is great (I'm more of an architecture person, and I love going for that).   The symphony is also wonderful,  and the Kauffman Center is stunning.  Next to the art museum in the summers is the free (but you might donate a few bucks) Shakespeare festival - one of my favorite things to do in the summer when we make it.  Kansas City does not, to my knowledge, have a natural history museum, but Lawrence, KS has one at the University and while it's no Field Museum I was pleasantly surprised by the collection.  Crown Center is beautiful during Christmas (you can access this via a walkway from Union Station) and in the summers they show movies outside for free.  On the Sunday before Memorial Day, the KC Symphony does a free outdoor concert at Union Station plus fireworks. 

We have a unique, and I think, lovely zoo.   Sorry, I'm done now.  Ha!



Okay Joe, here's the deal with the BBQ:

You have to try them all.  LOL. 

Kansas City Joe's f/k/a Oklahoma Joe's is the most *recently* famous but I hate the beans.  Seriously.  Those beans are just gross.  The other stuff is okay, but I don't dig on BBQ without good beans.  Hipsters, however, flock here and love it.  YMMV.

Gates is classic and probably my personal favorite.  Their sauce is spicy and not at all what you think of as BBQ sauce.

Oh wait.  No...Jack Stack is my favorite. 

Then there's LC's....which looks sketchy from the outside, but their brisket is wonderful.  Don't you dare put sauce on it!  It's perfect as is, don't touch it, other than to shovel it in your mouth.

Big T's is down the street from LC's and looks nicer.  Decent brisket plus they have a drive-thru (score!). 

I've never had Arthur Bryants.  I don't know why that is.

Zarda's is not the best...but they donate a lot of food to good causes so I'm just gonna throw there name in the hat for that reason. 

There are more places than this for BBQ, but these are the ones that I think of when I think BBQ.  Of course, my husband smokes his own brisket and so we don't eat out much unless he's feeling particularly lazy and spendy. 


The only exposure to the Bay area I had was accidently getting off the highway too early and having to travel the entire Sausalito area by car.  On a Sunday afternoon.  Oh Good Lord that was awful.  It was beautiful, no doubt, but just way too many people and it took seemingly forever to traverse that tiny space by car.  As my husband said "Never again, Sausalito!" 

My personal thoughts on big cities and friendliness is that although I'm a naturally friendly person, when there's too many people it just shuts down.  It's like there's too many opportunities for interactions, so then I don't interact.  But if I'm in a Raytown park with just one other person watching kids play, of course we are going to chat with each other.  It'd feel weird not to chat.  In big cities people become obstacles to get around - in smaller cities they are opportunities for a friendly interaction. 



boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7849
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2015, 09:02:20 AM »
Joes has the BEST BEANS IN TOWN what are you talking about. 

also you missed the new comers

Q39 and burntend bbq are both good too.  burnt end wins the best sauce at the royal every year.

Neustache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1187
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2015, 09:15:12 AM »
Yeah, we just don't dine out much because my husband is such a great cook.  Our next dining out is going to be the German restaurant in DT Independence....eventually we have to get seafood as my daughter would like to try lobster.  That will pretty much be our nice restaurant dining out for the next 6 months.  Maybe in a few years we'll get around to trying the new BBQ restaurants.

And.....the beans......LOL.  No.  Now the OP has to move here to tell us which ones are the best.  Or at least visit.

Trudie

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1662
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2015, 09:37:11 AM »
You hit a lot of the highlights!  I have a rental by the stadiums if you ever want to rent from me. ;-)

 If you like art, the Nelson is great (I'm more of an architecture person, and I love going for that).   The symphony is also wonderful,  and the Kauffman Center is stunning.  Next to the art museum in the summers is the free (but you might donate a few bucks) Shakespeare festival - one of my favorite things to do in the summer when we make it.  Kansas City does not, to my knowledge, have a natural history museum, but Lawrence, KS has one at the University and while it's no Field Museum I was pleasantly surprised by the collection.  Crown Center is beautiful during Christmas (you can access this via a walkway from Union Station) and in the summers they show movies outside for free.  On the Sunday before Memorial Day, the KC Symphony does a free outdoor concert at Union Station plus fireworks. 

We have a unique, and I think, lovely zoo.   Sorry, I'm done now.  Ha!



Okay Joe, here's the deal with the BBQ:

You have to try them all.  LOL. 

Kansas City Joe's f/k/a Oklahoma Joe's is the most *recently* famous but I hate the beans.  Seriously.  Those beans are just gross.  The other stuff is okay, but I don't dig on BBQ without good beans.  Hipsters, however, flock here and love it.  YMMV.

Gates is classic and probably my personal favorite.  Their sauce is spicy and not at all what you think of as BBQ sauce.

Oh wait.  No...Jack Stack is my favorite. 

Then there's LC's....which looks sketchy from the outside, but their brisket is wonderful.  Don't you dare put sauce on it!  It's perfect as is, don't touch it, other than to shovel it in your mouth.

Big T's is down the street from LC's and looks nicer.  Decent brisket plus they have a drive-thru (score!). 

I've never had Arthur Bryants.  I don't know why that is.

Zarda's is not the best...but they donate a lot of food to good causes so I'm just gonna throw there name in the hat for that reason. 

There are more places than this for BBQ, but these are the ones that I think of when I think BBQ.  Of course, my husband smokes his own brisket and so we don't eat out much unless he's feeling particularly lazy and spendy. 


The only exposure to the Bay area I had was accidently getting off the highway too early and having to travel the entire Sausalito area by car.  On a Sunday afternoon.  Oh Good Lord that was awful.  It was beautiful, no doubt, but just way too many people and it took seemingly forever to traverse that tiny space by car.  As my husband said "Never again, Sausalito!" 

My personal thoughts on big cities and friendliness is that although I'm a naturally friendly person, when there's too many people it just shuts down.  It's like there's too many opportunities for interactions, so then I don't interact.  But if I'm in a Raytown park with just one other person watching kids play, of course we are going to chat with each other.  It'd feel weird not to chat.  In big cities people become obstacles to get around - in smaller cities they are opportunities for a friendly interaction.

We went to Bryant's during the Big 12 BB tourney.  It was good, but I don't know if I'd wait in line like we did for it.  Still, given all the people in town it was a fun atmosphere.

We went to a nondescript Greek place down by the Sprint Center and decided the Greek food there was better than anything we'd had in Greece.

Good to know about the free parking -- but during the tourney it was impossible to find and they were charging a minimum of $10 for a lot/ramp.  But people want to turn a buck.  I get it.

We had time to kill between games and wandered into the downtown public library.  They had an interesting some interesting exhibits.  A librarian noticed we were wandering around and talked to us for a long time about the building (a former bank) in which the library was housed.  She then directed us to the rooftop garden which was lovely and perfect... it was in the 70s and sunny that day.  We were able to sit there and read and were not bothered by anyone.

frugalJD

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 29
  • Location: California
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2015, 10:38:58 AM »
Thanks, Neustache.  Our plan was to try Gates, but (like a dope!) I left our Royals tickets in the hotel so we had to backtrack to get them and didn't want to be late to the game.  I'll be sure to try a few places next time.

Good point about big cities.  We're in San Jose, and it's just that there are so many people everybody seems to be in a rush all the time.  It would be nice to escape the crowds, which are unavoidable out here. 

One thing I love about our current home is that we're 0.2 miles from a light rail station, and I can get all over the place for $2 (and not have to worry about drinking and driving).  For what public transportation there is in KC, would/do you guys feel safe using it?  I know every big city has its crime and not-so-safe areas (SJ no exception), but I do feel completely safe using the light rail and bus system here.

-Joe

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7849
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2015, 11:01:41 AM »
You hit a lot of the highlights!  I have a rental by the stadiums if you ever want to rent from me. ;-)

 If you like art, the Nelson is great (I'm more of an architecture person, and I love going for that).   The symphony is also wonderful,  and the Kauffman Center is stunning.  Next to the art museum in the summers is the free (but you might donate a few bucks) Shakespeare festival - one of my favorite things to do in the summer when we make it.  Kansas City does not, to my knowledge, have a natural history museum, but Lawrence, KS has one at the University and while it's no Field Museum I was pleasantly surprised by the collection.  Crown Center is beautiful during Christmas (you can access this via a walkway from Union Station) and in the summers they show movies outside for free.  On the Sunday before Memorial Day, the KC Symphony does a free outdoor concert at Union Station plus fireworks. 

We have a unique, and I think, lovely zoo.   Sorry, I'm done now.  Ha!



Okay Joe, here's the deal with the BBQ:

You have to try them all.  LOL. 

Kansas City Joe's f/k/a Oklahoma Joe's is the most *recently* famous but I hate the beans.  Seriously.  Those beans are just gross.  The other stuff is okay, but I don't dig on BBQ without good beans.  Hipsters, however, flock here and love it.  YMMV.

Gates is classic and probably my personal favorite.  Their sauce is spicy and not at all what you think of as BBQ sauce.

Oh wait.  No...Jack Stack is my favorite. 

Then there's LC's....which looks sketchy from the outside, but their brisket is wonderful.  Don't you dare put sauce on it!  It's perfect as is, don't touch it, other than to shovel it in your mouth.

Big T's is down the street from LC's and looks nicer.  Decent brisket plus they have a drive-thru (score!). 

I've never had Arthur Bryants.  I don't know why that is.

Zarda's is not the best...but they donate a lot of food to good causes so I'm just gonna throw there name in the hat for that reason. 

There are more places than this for BBQ, but these are the ones that I think of when I think BBQ.  Of course, my husband smokes his own brisket and so we don't eat out much unless he's feeling particularly lazy and spendy. 


The only exposure to the Bay area I had was accidently getting off the highway too early and having to travel the entire Sausalito area by car.  On a Sunday afternoon.  Oh Good Lord that was awful.  It was beautiful, no doubt, but just way too many people and it took seemingly forever to traverse that tiny space by car.  As my husband said "Never again, Sausalito!" 

My personal thoughts on big cities and friendliness is that although I'm a naturally friendly person, when there's too many people it just shuts down.  It's like there's too many opportunities for interactions, so then I don't interact.  But if I'm in a Raytown park with just one other person watching kids play, of course we are going to chat with each other.  It'd feel weird not to chat.  In big cities people become obstacles to get around - in smaller cities they are opportunities for a friendly interaction.

We went to Bryant's during the Big 12 BB tourney.  It was good, but I don't know if I'd wait in line like we did for it.  Still, given all the people in town it was a fun atmosphere.

We went to a nondescript Greek place down by the Sprint Center and decided the Greek food there was better than anything we'd had in Greece.

Good to know about the free parking -- but during the tourney it was impossible to find and they were charging a minimum of $10 for a lot/ramp.  But people want to turn a buck.  I get it.

We had time to kill between games and wandered into the downtown public library.  They had an interesting some interesting exhibits.  A librarian noticed we were wandering around and talked to us for a long time about the building (a former bank) in which the library was housed.  She then directed us to the rooftop garden which was lovely and perfect... it was in the 70s and sunny that day.  We were able to sit there and read and were not bothered by anyone.

I've been down many many times during the tourney... park under power and light that garage is always 2 bucks. if you dont say sprint center.

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7849
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #31 on: July 31, 2015, 11:03:26 AM »
Thanks, Neustache.  Our plan was to try Gates, but (like a dope!) I left our Royals tickets in the hotel so we had to backtrack to get them and didn't want to be late to the game.  I'll be sure to try a few places next time.

Good point about big cities.  We're in San Jose, and it's just that there are so many people everybody seems to be in a rush all the time.  It would be nice to escape the crowds, which are unavoidable out here. 

One thing I love about our current home is that we're 0.2 miles from a light rail station, and I can get all over the place for $2 (and not have to worry about drinking and driving).  For what public transportation there is in KC, would/do you guys feel safe using it?  I know every big city has its crime and not-so-safe areas (SJ no exception), but I do feel completely safe using the light rail and bus system here.

-Joe

seeing as we dont have a light rail system i wouldnt feel comfortable using it either.  the KC public transit system is awful. you maybe could do busses i know people who do it and they are safe. 

Neustache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1187
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2015, 12:29:57 PM »
Busses are fine but it depends on where you want to go as to how easy it is.  If you can be a one car family, I'd personally do that, and we've done that through the years.  But I'm not hard-core mustachian, either.

Left

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1159
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2015, 12:40:17 PM »
outside of a few neighborhoods, KC is pretty safe, even the buses... I know people who look down on the riders as poor but that doesn't make it unsafe.

I mean, even the homeless guys and beggers are fairly polite to me... NYC ones are some of the worst that I've seen in the US... seen worst in other countries though

iamsoners

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 178
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2015, 12:47:32 PM »
The bus system is safe, I take my kids on it without a second thought.  It's not as expansive as other cities (no bus to the airport? WTF?) but it will do--there is an express system called the MAX which has a couple of routes through the city--if you really wanted to use it, just locate yourself near one of those lines.

There's also a streetcar line opening up downtown.  I love public transit but even I'll say that for now it seems pretty gimmicky--it's going to run from the River Market past the Sprint Center and to Crown Center--all of two miles.  If it gains traction there's a possibility it gets extended down south towards the Plaza which might make it more useful but for now I view it as sort of a tourist thing.  By the time you're ready to move it should be clearer whether it's going to sink or swim.

There's some very long-term talk about building a commuter train from Lee's Summit to downtown I think--did I make that up?  I think the land's been acquired but it may never get beyond that

Neustache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1187
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2015, 12:59:50 PM »
iamsoners - I heard that, too.  It has to do with the Rock Island train line.   Or am I thinking of a biking trail?  But for some reason it wasn't going downtown, just to the stadiums, which I suppose helps on game days but you'd still have to hitch a ride on a bus to get downtown.  Unless I'm mistaken on what I remember, which is likely. 

Trudie

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1662
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #36 on: July 31, 2015, 01:30:39 PM »
We found Uber pretty easy and cheap to use to get around KC.

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7849
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #37 on: July 31, 2015, 06:30:23 PM »
Yeah there has been talk for years of LS to DT train. I don't think it will happen. I'd bet Johnson county gets one first. They'll milk their people dry with taxes to get it built too

Cathy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1046
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #38 on: July 31, 2015, 08:10:22 PM »
I couldn't find a reference to a resident tax on all income. I was under the impression that KCMO's tax is only on earned income.

But I am interested in finding out if I'm wrong!

The Kansas City Earnings and Profits Tax is codified in Part II, c 68, Art VI of the Code of Ordinances of the City of Kansas City, Missouri ("KSMOC"). The scope of the tax is found at KSMOC 68-382(a). The tax applies to (1) "earnings" of residents, (2) "earnings" of nonresidents earned within the city, (3) "net profits" of all "unincorporated businesses conducted by residents", (4) "net profits" of unincorporated business conducted in the city by nonresidents, and (5) "net profits" of corporations for business conducted in the city. The term "earnings" means "compensation paid for personal services", however denominated: KSMOC 68-381.

The scope of the tax is broader than just "earned income" because it also applies to business profits (which includes distributions and passive activity income).

One interesting issue is that an incorporated entity is only ever taxed on net profits from activities conducted within the city, whereas a resident who conducts unincorporated business is taxed on all net profits, even those with no connection to the city. I wonder whether business conducted through a single-member liability liability company ("LLC") counts as "unincorporated business" for the purpose of this tax (after all, an LLC is not a "corporation" as defined in KSMOC 68-381). If an LLC is not an "unincorporated business", then "net profits" attributable to one might not be reached by this tax at all. I will leave researching that as an exercise.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 08:20:38 PM by Cathy »

iris lily

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3279
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2015, 09:57:12 PM »
KC is great, it's almost as good as St. Louis.

MO is a good state for FIRED individuals.

Cpa Cat

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1572
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2015, 09:47:11 AM »
I couldn't find a reference to a resident tax on all income. I was under the impression that KCMO's tax is only on earned income.

But I am interested in finding out if I'm wrong!

The Kansas City Earnings and Profits Tax is codified in Part II, c 68, Art VI of the Code of Ordinances of the City of Kansas City, Missouri ("KSMOC"). The scope of the tax is found at KSMOC 68-382(a). The tax applies to (1) "earnings" of residents, (2) "earnings" of nonresidents earned within the city, (3) "net profits" of all "unincorporated businesses conducted by residents", (4) "net profits" of unincorporated business conducted in the city by nonresidents, and (5) "net profits" of corporations for business conducted in the city. The term "earnings" means "compensation paid for personal services", however denominated: KSMOC 68-381.

The scope of the tax is broader than just "earned income" because it also applies to business profits (which includes distributions and passive activity income).

But it does seem to only include active business, not investment income and not retirement plan income. I looked around at the KCMO tax forms and couldn't find one that included investment or retirement income. I am also curious whether rental properties count as unincorporated business.

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7849
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #41 on: August 01, 2015, 12:02:11 PM »
KC is great, it's almost as good as St. Louis.

MO is a good state for FIRED individuals.

Yeah I wish we had more shootings. Then we could be as good as stl.

Also what kinda city has corporations that care about what high school you went to.   Seriously. College grad with a doctorate trying to get a job in stl will be asked what high school they went to.

They could shove sticks farther up their asses but then they may get confused and think they're NYC.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2015, 12:07:24 PM by boarder42 »

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7849
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #42 on: August 01, 2015, 12:14:48 PM »
The best city to fire to in mo is probably Springfield. Cost of living is crazy low. Yet big enough city to have everything.  You just don't have a large airport if you plan to fly alot in fire it likely won't work.

iris lily

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3279
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2015, 11:50:23 AM »
The best city to fire to in mo is probably Springfield. Cost of living is crazy low. Yet big enough city to have everything.  You just don't have a large airport if you plan to fly alot in fire it likely won't work.
oh dear god god, no. I loathe Springfield mo, it is just one long string of strip malls.

 But then I'm the one who puts up with the shootings in order to live in the urban core of St. Louis where our architecture is world class. Great restaurants, too.

I'm not from here and so the high school question doesn't pertain to me.

Neustache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1187
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2015, 12:31:05 PM »



Iris Lily - we love visiting your town!  We haven't even gone to the City Museum yet but I hear really good things about it.  My husband's sitar instructor lives outside of St. Louis so we try to visit every year or two.

College Stash

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 76
  • Age: 24
  • Location: Midwest
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #45 on: August 02, 2015, 09:59:45 PM »
Personally I like Parkville and North Kansas City the best. Gates and Arthur Bryants are the best for Bbq.

wtjbatman

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1313
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Missouri
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #46 on: August 03, 2015, 12:12:49 PM »
Springfield MO is fine. I just moved down here a couple months ago, and I like it more than the small(er) city I lived in in Minnesota. And the cost of living is even cheaper. God is it cheap! Definitely a great place for FIRE. St Louis is fun to visit, not sure I'd want to live there though.

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7849
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #47 on: August 03, 2015, 01:32:09 PM »
Springfield MO is fine. I just moved down here a couple months ago, and I like it more than the small(er) city I lived in in Minnesota. And the cost of living is even cheaper. God is it cheap! Definitely a great place for FIRE. St Louis is fun to visit, not sure I'd want to live there though.
.


Yeah crazy how cheap it is there and you're close to lots of things to do outdoors.  I had an internship there for 8 months when i was at school in Rolla.  It's really a great town for low cost FIRE. 

Trudie

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1662
Re: Kansas City, MO for ER?
« Reply #48 on: August 03, 2015, 03:05:07 PM »
The best city to fire to in mo is probably Springfield. Cost of living is crazy low. Yet big enough city to have everything.  You just don't have a large airport if you plan to fly alot in fire it likely won't work.
oh dear god god, no. I loathe Springfield mo, it is just one long string of strip malls.

 But then I'm the one who puts up with the shootings in order to live in the urban core of St. Louis where our architecture is world class. Great restaurants, too.

I'm not from here and so the high school question doesn't pertain to me.

I've visited STL multiple times for business and stayed downtown.  The downtown has beautiful architecture.  The west end is pretty cool.  Forest Park is beautiful, as is the Botanical Garden.  And The Hill for Italian food beats Little Italy in most cities.  It has so much to offer -- history, architecture, cool urban feel.  I hope it can get violent crime under control (and I'm talking about crime that pre-dated the events of the last year).