Just got job offer in NYC --- Suggestions for a NYC newbie?

[Genevieve]

Hi MMMers!

My husband just received a job offer for a great job in NYC. So, we're moving!

Where's the best place to live? Any tips for making the move cost effectively? Any suggestions for living as an MMMer in NYC? I welcome your suggestions and resources.

His office will be in Soho/ Lower Manhattan area (on Ave on the Americas). I have no idea where I'll get a job, so I'm thinking that living somewhere close to a subway hub seems like a good idea.
 
We're 27, married, 2 little dogs, no kids but planning some in the next few years.

[Dollar Slice]

Welcome to NYC! My first piece of advice is that you should call "Avenue of the Americas" 6th Avenue, or people will think you're a tourist ;-) 

It would be good to know more precisely where your husband is working, in terms of which subway line(s) he'll want to take. Are we talking financial district, world trade center-ish, or really in Soho?

What do you value most in terms of living options? Short commute - cost - quality of the neighborhood - size of the apartment you'll get for your dollar - possibility to have a yard - access to nightlife - etc?

Parts of Upper Manhattan (Harlem, Inwood, etc.), parts of Queens and some towns in New Jersey are kind of a sweet spot in terms of cost/convenience/quality of life, IMO. Brooklyn and Lower Manhattan are pretty expensive (but have some great neighborhoods if you've got a ton of $$$). Further out in Brooklyn is cheaper but the transit options are not as good and there are some high-crime areas and areas prone to flooding and etc. so that is not an option I'd go for. The Bronx is cheap but would be pretty far for a commute to FiDi/Soho.

They are planning to shut down the L train for lengthy (18+ months) repairs in the next couple of years, so do not under any circumstances move to a place where you will depend on the L train!

[Genevieve]

My first piece of advice is that you should call "Avenue of the Americas" 6th Avenue, or people will think you're a tourist ;-) 

Hah! That's funny. Good to know. The address is 100 Avenue of the Americas. (I'll edit out the exact address later.)

Short commute is important.

We are OK with a smallish apartment -- we have room to spare in our 800 sq ft apartment now. It matters more how the space is used than the actual square feet. I'm even up for living in one of those duplex kinda places where the bedroom is up top. My 6'4" husband is hoping we can squeeze our king size bed in, even if we can't really walk around the bed :)

I'd really, really like to have a terrace or deck or yard where we can let the dogs out. This is probably going to be the hardest thing to find.

Nightlife doesn't matter much. We like trying new restaurants occasionally, going to museums, going on walks in parks, and going to Meetup groups in stuff that we're interested in. None of that really requires being in a super hip part of town, as long as it's not really isolated.

Quality of the neighborhood... hmm... not sure how to speak to this. I want to feel comfortable walking around at night? I don't want to feel trapped in the apartment at night.

With cost, I'm more about getting good value of the space. Getting inexpensive housing can make a big difference with saving FI, but I really want to like where we live too so if I can't find a good fit I'd explore my options with a bigger budget. Salary will be ~$125k base until I get a job, as a reference point.

Thanks for your help!

[2Birds1Stone]

Very nice Genevieve. I live a about 1 hour from NYC but visit every once in a while.

It's an amazing place for a resourceful mustachian. You will find lots to do for free/cheap. I don't have any advice on housing other than to wish you luck!

What type of job will you be seeking out? $125k/yr from just your husband will put you guys in a great spot. The thing about NYC is, there are a LOT of high paying jobs. So you should be very comfortable with two incomes. I would look for housing that you love, a couple hundred bucks a month isn't worth sacrificing comfort/values that are important to you.

[JackieTreehorn]

Ride your bike to work.  I do citibike personally. Don't pay for cabs, ever.  Maybe uber/lyft every once in a while if they're doing 50% off which they occasionally do for holiday weekends or something.  If you have a car, sell it, parking it alone can cost you $400 a month or an equivalent amount in lost time looking for a parking space every time you drive it.  Transportation is one of the only ways to save money in an otherwise very expensive city.

The food here is amazing, but it's also an amazing way to separate you from your money if you're not careful.  It's hard because one of the best things about NYC is the food but it can be expensive.  We do eat out a fair bit, if only because groceries are incredibly expensive as well.  $1 slices of pizza can be your friend if you find one that isn't completely terrible.

Housing and taxes are the biggest issues.  Be prepared to see your income cut in half due to federal, state, and LOCAL income taxes as well as the FICA taxes of course.  Don't ask me what the local income taxes go towards as I'm sure you will never see $0.01 of that returned to you.  Living in Hoboken/jersey city is an option to avoid them, but that takes the bike commuting out of the picture for the most part. 

As for housing...good luck.  For a 1 bedroom in a decent neighborhood I'd budget $3,000 at least.  We live in the east village and it's somewhat cheaper (also somewhat seedier) than some other neighborhoods and we like it.  Friday/Saturday nights are crazy as it's one of the main areas where all the kids go out.  Used to love it when I was younger but it's wearing on me now.  You need to figure out what's important in an apartment (space? doorman? location? amenities?) and prioritize and expect to maybe get 1 or 2 of your top priorities. 

That was probably a cynical enough response that you can tell I've been living here for a long time.  Welcome and good luck!

[jim555]

I worked in NYC for many years.  I commuted from Long Island.  The good, no NYC income tax, nice suburban area which is expensive but still cheaper than the city.  The bad, time consuming commute, LIRR and subway is not cheap and not reliable.  Always a trade off between time and money.  I always hated the city, expensive, dirty, over rated, scary and dangerous people abound.

[Dollar Slice]

My first piece of advice is that you should call "Avenue of the Americas" 6th Avenue, or people will think you're a tourist ;-) 

Hah! That's funny. Good to know. The address is 100 Avenue of the Americas. (I'll edit out the exact address later.)

Short commute is important.

We are OK with a smallish apartment

I'd really, really like to have a terrace or deck or yard where we can let the dogs out.

Nightlife doesn't matter much.

Your husband's work is close to the E train which goes to Queens. Also fairly close to one or two PATH stations (which go to New Jersey). I would take a look at those options and I think you can get most of what you want if you have a realistic budget and expectations.

If you want a shorter commute than those places, you pretty much have to give up on the terrace/deck/yard.

And no, you don't need to pay "at least" $3000 for a 1BR like the above poster mentions. That's ridiculous. Can you find apartments at that price? Sure. Should you? Not unless you have money to burn.

[smella]

Ha, ha, my spouse also works on "Avenue of the Americas" --- different neighborhood though.
I've always been slightly curious about that fake alternate name but never curious enough to look it up. 

Anyways.... our combined is around $150k.   In terms of lifestyle we're "half-mustachians" ---- we are waaaaaay more frugal and better with money than 95% of our friends, but we eat a lot of fancy meats and cheeses.  Nonetheless our savings rate is around 50%. 

It is hard to be a mustachian in new york, but not impossible. 

Also haha to 800 sq feet being "small-ish"! That's huge.  We're in 725 sq feet with 2 adults, 2 cats, 1 dog, and 1 soon to be baby (and we're not moving for his sake, I can tell you that).

I'd be happy to talk more about neighborhoods--costs and otherweise--privately, but definitely your lifestyle priorities will determine this. I personally hate Manhattan, as in, you couldn't PAY ME to live in that wretched burrough! My wife's commute from our hood in central brooklyn, though, is getting to wear her down (45 minutes of citibike+subway to midtown manhattan).

[smella]

no kids but planning some in the next few years.

OH, this!!!!!!  I love our neighborhood and I love our relatively low mortgage but the school district is absolutely atrocious.  Look up the district lines & zones, especially if you're planning to buy.   

[Yankuba]

Ride your bike to work.  I do citibike personally. Don't pay for cabs, ever.  Maybe uber/lyft every once in a while if they're doing 50% off which they occasionally do for holiday weekends or something.  If you have a car, sell it, parking it alone can cost you $400 a month or an equivalent amount in lost time looking for a parking space every time you drive it.  Transportation is one of the only ways to save money in an otherwise very expensive city.

The food here is amazing, but it's also an amazing way to separate you from your money if you're not careful.  It's hard because one of the best things about NYC is the food but it can be expensive.  We do eat out a fair bit, if only because groceries are incredibly expensive as well.  $1 slices of pizza can be your friend if you find one that isn't completely terrible.

Housing and taxes are the biggest issues.  Be prepared to see your income cut in half due to federal, state, and LOCAL income taxes as well as the FICA taxes of course.  Don't ask me what the local income taxes go towards as I'm sure you will never see $0.01 of that returned to you.  Living in Hoboken/jersey city is an option to avoid them, but that takes the bike commuting out of the picture for the most part. 

As for housing...good luck.  For a 1 bedroom in a decent neighborhood I'd budget $3,000 at least.  We live in the east village and it's somewhat cheaper (also somewhat seedier) than some other neighborhoods and we like it.  Friday/Saturday nights are crazy as it's one of the main areas where all the kids go out.  Used to love it when I was younger but it's wearing on me now.  You need to figure out what's important in an apartment (space? doorman? location? amenities?) and prioritize and expect to maybe get 1 or 2 of your top priorities. 

That was probably a cynical enough response that you can tell I've been living here for a long time.  Welcome and good luck!

I think they can do better than $3000 on housing. My brother rents a two bedroom in Bayside for $1500 and you can get a two bedroom in Astoria for $2200. 

As for local taxes - isn't that money used for schools, police, fire, sanitation, parks, etc. ?

[JackieTreehorn]

I was assuming she wanted a comparably sized apartment in Manhattan (i.e. near where her husband works and near a "subway hub") with a backyard space as she mentioned.  Given those two requirements, I'm pretty sure you couldn't find a place for $3,000 actually.  I know what I was paying until for neither of those and it's not "ridiculous".

[JackieTreehorn]

Ride your bike to work.  I do citibike personally. Don't pay for cabs, ever.  Maybe uber/lyft every once in a while if they're doing 50% off which they occasionally do for holiday weekends or something.  If you have a car, sell it, parking it alone can cost you $400 a month or an equivalent amount in lost time looking for a parking space every time you drive it.  Transportation is one of the only ways to save money in an otherwise very expensive city.

The food here is amazing, but it's also an amazing way to separate you from your money if you're not careful.  It's hard because one of the best things about NYC is the food but it can be expensive.  We do eat out a fair bit, if only because groceries are incredibly expensive as well.  $1 slices of pizza can be your friend if you find one that isn't completely terrible.

Housing and taxes are the biggest issues.  Be prepared to see your income cut in half due to federal, state, and LOCAL income taxes as well as the FICA taxes of course.  Don't ask me what the local income taxes go towards as I'm sure you will never see $0.01 of that returned to you.  Living in Hoboken/jersey city is an option to avoid them, but that takes the bike commuting out of the picture for the most part. 

As for housing...good luck.  For a 1 bedroom in a decent neighborhood I'd budget $3,000 at least.  We live in the east village and it's somewhat cheaper (also somewhat seedier) than some other neighborhoods and we like it.  Friday/Saturday nights are crazy as it's one of the main areas where all the kids go out.  Used to love it when I was younger but it's wearing on me now.  You need to figure out what's important in an apartment (space? doorman? location? amenities?) and prioritize and expect to maybe get 1 or 2 of your top priorities. 

That was probably a cynical enough response that you can tell I've been living here for a long time.  Welcome and good luck!

I think they can do better than $3000 on housing. My brother rents a two bedroom in Bayside for $1500 and you can get a two bedroom in Astoria for $2200. 

As for local taxes - isn't that money used for schools, police, fire, sanitation, parks, etc. ?

Perhaps.  Why does almost every other city in the country seem to get by without it, though?

[Yankuba]

Ride your bike to work.  I do citibike personally. Don't pay for cabs, ever.  Maybe uber/lyft every once in a while if they're doing 50% off which they occasionally do for holiday weekends or something.  If you have a car, sell it, parking it alone can cost you $400 a month or an equivalent amount in lost time looking for a parking space every time you drive it.  Transportation is one of the only ways to save money in an otherwise very expensive city.

The food here is amazing, but it's also an amazing way to separate you from your money if you're not careful.  It's hard because one of the best things about NYC is the food but it can be expensive.  We do eat out a fair bit, if only because groceries are incredibly expensive as well.  $1 slices of pizza can be your friend if you find one that isn't completely terrible.

Housing and taxes are the biggest issues.  Be prepared to see your income cut in half due to federal, state, and LOCAL income taxes as well as the FICA taxes of course.  Don't ask me what the local income taxes go towards as I'm sure you will never see $0.01 of that returned to you.  Living in Hoboken/jersey city is an option to avoid them, but that takes the bike commuting out of the picture for the most part. 

As for housing...good luck.  For a 1 bedroom in a decent neighborhood I'd budget $3,000 at least.  We live in the east village and it's somewhat cheaper (also somewhat seedier) than some other neighborhoods and we like it.  Friday/Saturday nights are crazy as it's one of the main areas where all the kids go out.  Used to love it when I was younger but it's wearing on me now.  You need to figure out what's important in an apartment (space? doorman? location? amenities?) and prioritize and expect to maybe get 1 or 2 of your top priorities. 

That was probably a cynical enough response that you can tell I've been living here for a long time.  Welcome and good luck!

I think they can do better than $3000 on housing. My brother rents a two bedroom in Bayside for $1500 and you can get a two bedroom in Astoria for $2200. 

As for local taxes - isn't that money used for schools, police, fire, sanitation, parks, etc. ?

Perhaps.  Why does almost every other city in the country seem to get by without it, though?

Probably because their police forces don't have $5 BILLION budgets, lol. The NYPD is basically an army.

[Dollar Slice]

I was assuming she wanted a comparably sized apartment in Manhattan ...

That's a pretty big assumption to make on a board dedicated to frugality and saving money! :-)  I don't think people come here to ask "How can I spend a small fortune and not make ANY sacrifices in the process?"

[Genevieve]

Also haha to 800 sq feet being "small-ish"! That's huge.  We're in 725 sq feet with 2 adults, 2 cats, 1 dog, and 1 soon to be baby (and we're not moving for his sake, I can tell you that)...

I'd be happy to talk more about neighborhoods--costs and otherweise--privately, but definitely your lifestyle priorities will determine this. I personally hate Manhattan, as in, you couldn't PAY ME to live in that wretched burrough! My wife's commute from our hood in central brooklyn, though, is getting to wear her down (45 minutes of citibike+subway to midtown manhattan).

Ok will PM you!

Re: size -- That size sounds about right. 600-800 sq ft sounds ideal, unless it just a ridiculous price. But it's really about how it's laid out the smaller it is. Less room in the bedroom, open living room, and so on.

Re: kid friendly -- I think we could move when we actually start to have kids & they get closer to school age. Depending on how things go we could be FI by then!

Re: backyard -- While a backyard would be AWESOME, a largish balcony/ terrace where we could put a fake lawn would be OK too. I know, this is hard to come by. If it's $1k more? Not worth it. 15 minutes more commute? Worth it. I'm just thinking of the time savings of our one dog who has to go pee ALL. THE. TIME.

Re: New Jersey -- where? His teammate lives in NJ, so that seems like a legitimate option. Hopefully I wouldn't get screwed on the commute if we did that. My dream job is on 39th & Park Ave, but we'll see if I'd be able to get in there. : )

[Genevieve]

What type of job will you be seeking out?

I can PM you. :)

[celticblue]

I would +1 for Harlem.

Its well connected. Has plenty of parks (Central Park, Riverside, Morningside, Marcus Garvey), significantly lower costs, and very good commute.

Neighborhood safety is a block by block issue (as it is throughout NYC). I don't really mean in terms of being unsafe but feeling unsafe. Avenues are always bustling and well lit, side streets may feel barren in parts. There are beautiful blocks and there are stretches of public housing where people live a slightly tougher life. You might also select areas based on what language you want to hear (Puerotorican and mexican spanish in East Harlem and dominican spanish in Washington Heights). The Spanish neighborhoods are more family based vs singles based.

You could get a 2 bedroom for around 3,000 but with no outdoor space. A one bedroom with access to some shared outdoor space is possible. But there you would be looking at a ground floor apartment which is not ideal in NYC. Or a shared building roof terrace which would be much better.

[Genevieve]

Some mention of Queens - what areas? Just so I know what neighborhood name to Google.

[GAR]

Just wanted to throw in a warning not to rent anywhere in Brooklyn that relies on the L subway line because it's about to be shut down for over a year and there aren't a lot of alternative transportation options. http://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/transit/2016/08/1/denizens-of-williamsburg-hope-l-train-shutdown-doesn-t-turn-the-hood-into-a-no-man-s-land.html

In Brooklyn, I would recommend taking a look at Ditmas Park and Crown Heights.  A lot of my Brooklyn friends have been moving to Ditmas Park - it's pretty nice and pretty well-priced when compared to fancier parts of Brooklyn (e.g., Park Slope, Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, Dumbo).  Crown Heights (Brooklyn) is also worth a look - it's close to the Brooklyn Botanic Gardens, the Brooklyn Art Museum, Prospect Park and a couple of express subway lines.

I live on the border of Clinton Hill and Bed-Stuy in Brooklyn and like it a lot, although I don't think you get quite as much for your money. 

[Dollar Slice]

I'll let someone else talk about Queens as I'm not that familiar with it. A few MMMers live there so hopefully they will stop by the thread.

I like Harlem as an option too - I live there! - but I'm not sure I'd feel the same way if I had to commute so far downtown. And if you prize access to outdoor space, that is possible in this neighborhood but not that common, I don't think. And keep express stops in mind. (E.g., living near 125th Street will get you downtown faster than living near 110th Street if you're on the A/B/C/D line, because the express train stops there. Similar applies to the 4/5/6 line further east.)

Re: New Jersey -- where? His teammate lives in NJ, so that seems like a legitimate option. Hopefully I wouldn't get screwed on the commute if we did that. My dream job is on 39th & Park Ave, but we'll see if I'd be able to get in there. : )

I would look at Hoboken and Jersey City for starters. You're looking for proximity to PATH train stations. There's a PATH train station about a 15-minute walk from your dream job, so not as nice as it would be for your husband but not that bad.

[JackieTreehorn]

Queens:

I lived in Astoria when I first moved here for about 1.5 yrs.  That was many years ago, now, so I don't know what it's like these days.  I didn't care for it personally, but a lot of people like it.  NYC is an absolutely filthy city, but I found Astoria to be dirty even by NYC standards, although like I say it might be a lot better now.  There was some good ethnic food there at least, especially Greek.  Don't know if that's all been squeezed about by yuppies like me moving there.  Also a very short commute to Manhattan.

Woodside - Only went there a few times while I was living in Astoria but I liked it.  Lots of irish pubs if I remember correctly.  My kind of scene.

Forest Hills - Had a lot of friends from college who were from this neighborhood.  It's nice, but more like an extremely dense suburb.  Can get a lot of bang for your buck apartment size wise.  The downside is that it's quite a long subway ride into the city.  For your DH, I'd imagine his commute would be an hour or so each way.  Maybe longer, depending on how close your apt is to the subway.

According to Wikipedia, queens is the most ethnically diverse urban area in the world.

[K-ice]

A friend lived on Lexington near the top of the park. ~107th. It was ground floor in a brownstone so it has a very small "yard".

If would work for small dogs. Maybe look for ground floor if you want a "yard". It was about 12x8 ft of shaded concreate blocks.

One problem with the place, it slightly shook when the train passed below.

They were pissed they didn't notice when viewing the suite. But later shrugged it off as a "welcome to NY" kind of thing.

[norabird]

Posting to say hi!

[Mariposa]

Also haha to 800 sq feet being "small-ish"! That's huge.  We're in 725 sq feet with 2 adults, 2 cats, 1 dog, and 1 soon to be baby (and we're not moving for his sake, I can tell you that).

+1. Sense of space is different here.

We've lived in NYC six years and in Queens for the past year. You do get more space for your money here, but rents are going up and up, like everywhere else in NYC.

Long Island City is the closest neighborhood in Queens to Manhattan: lots of new construction there, and you could get a nice 1-bd apartment with a balcony, but it's expensive (like $3000/mo). Jackson Heights is the most ethnically diverse place in the country and only 3 stops on the express E or F to Midtown, but it's still a lot of stops to get down to the FiDi. So your DH would be looking at a 40+min commute. Astoria is highly gentrified these days. You could also consider Sunnyside / Woodside, which the 7 train runs through. These are all nice neighborhoods. 

If a short commute is at the top of your list, and you're willing to live in a smallish space (like 500-600 sq feet or less), and pay at least $2500 for rent, I would stick to lower Manhattan or Brooklyn. If you're willing to do a longer commute for a lower rent ($1800-$2200 for a 1-bd), you should definitely consider Queens. It's still hard to find outdoor space for dogs to run around in, though.

[Genevieve]

Thanks for all the help! Now I have at least a starting place in terms of a reasonable size, price, and neighborhood.

Maybe I'll actually get a job before October when we move and we can choose the area that will work well for both of us.

[dilinger]

  $1 slices of pizza can be your friend if you find one that isn't completely terrible.

The one thing I miss about Manhattan: the $1 slice of pizza available 24hrs/day.

[Dollar Slice]

  $1 slices of pizza can be your friend if you find one that isn't completely terrible.

The one thing I miss about Manhattan: the $1 slice of pizza available 24hrs/day.

I actually prefer that people don't contact me before 9AM. I'm not a morning person. ;-)

But I will confirm that I am not completely terrible, and I can be your friend.

[dilinger]

  $1 slices of pizza can be your friend if you find one that isn't completely terrible.

The one thing I miss about Manhattan: the $1 slice of pizza available 24hrs/day.

I actually prefer that people don't contact me before 9AM. I'm not a morning person. ;-)

But I will confirm that I am not completely terrible, and I can be your friend.

OH GOD MY PIZZA IS TALKING TO ME AHHHHHHHHHHH

[Genevieve]

  $1 slices of pizza can be your friend if you find one that isn't completely terrible.

The one thing I miss about Manhattan: the $1 slice of pizza available 24hrs/day.

I actually prefer that people don't contact me before 9AM. I'm not a morning person. ;-)

But I will confirm that I am not completely terrible, and I can be your friend.

OH GOD MY PIZZA IS TALKING TO ME AHHHHHHHHHHH

HAH! : )

Posting to say hi!

Hi! Thanks for the welcome to NYC.

[naners]

Also consider Jersey City, especially if you want a yard. PATH trains to lower Manhattan are very good. There is also Sunset Park in Brooklyn: the secret is the 36th St DNR station. The D is express so you can get a long way fast. Haven't been over there myself but I think there is a fun Chinatown, and CTowns are always baller for frugal living.

[High FIdelity]

I lived in NYC for almost 20 years on the Upper West Side.  Unless you have a compelling reason to live in the 'middle of it all' and overpay for years like I foolishy did, I recommend Queens.   Forest Hills, Kew Gardens area.  Its along the express trains, much more green and open...Forest Hills even has the LIRR if for some reason you need to be in Penn Station in 17 minutes.  The prices if you're looking to rent or buy are still normal and your life will cost you 50% less than living in Manhattan and probably cheaper than Jersey City which I also saw recommended.  Sure, you could live in town or further away to save more, but this area strikes a good balance.  The subway gets you to the East Side in 20 minutes, its served by 4 lines + the LIRR and its very cost effective.  I did my research so benefit from my experience.

[All That Glitters]

I'm in Brooklyn. Prospect/Lefferts on the east side of Prospect Park. The subway commute is really quick (Q/B line to lower Manhattan takes 15-20 mins) and I bike to the city all the time. The rents here are pretty good (you could totally get a decent 1 bdrm for 1500), and buildings are low, which means more potential outdoor space. Also access to the park is wonderful. Major dog parties go down in the park in the AM and PM. The BK Public library up the street is huge and incredible. Great farmers market with composting at Grand Army Plaza. BK is a much more sensible commute to downtown than Queens. Also, a lot of the neighborhoods that hip people avoid are actually really sweet and relatively safe. Agree with the Ditmas Park recommendation above. Or a little further into Flatbush could work great.

[Genevieve]

I'm in Brooklyn. Prospect/Lefferts on the east side of Prospect Park. The subway commute is really quick (Q/B line to lower Manhattan takes 15-20 mins) and I bike to the city all the time. The rents here are pretty good (you could totally get a decent 1 bdrm for 1500), and buildings are low, which means more potential outdoor space. Also access to the park is wonderful. Major dog parties go down in the park in the AM and PM. The BK Public library up the street is huge and incredible. Great farmers market with composting at Grand Army Plaza. BK is a much more sensible commute to downtown than Queens. Also, a lot of the neighborhoods that hip people avoid are actually really sweet and relatively safe. Agree with the Ditmas Park recommendation above. Or a little further into Flatbush could work great.

That sounds incredible! : )

[norabird]

I'm in PLG/Flatbush too--you could find the local Facebook group and ask for real estate tips there :)


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