Poll

Should I work at the high end country club or the municipal course?

High End private
2 (66.7%)
Mid range muni
1 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Author Topic: Job choice - tough decision  (Read 5119 times)

Cincy Stache

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 59
Job choice - tough decision
« on: February 06, 2014, 05:47:15 PM »
Background info on choices.  Assuming I have the choice between the two straight up.

Country club:
One of the top clubs in the city
Great experience and connections to eventually be a head pro at a high end club
Only 5 miles from my house.
2nd assistant position- so behind another in the pecking order of pay and "status"
Pay range could be 10-12/hr with 40-60 hour weeks 9 months out of the year.
OT, tournament bonuses & lesson income additionally
Affords me the opportunity to provide the BEST service in all aspects of the job (one of the things I enjoy most about being a golf pro)
Ample playing opportunities with members etc.

Municipal:
Within well regarded muni system
Great experience teaching with very experienced professionals to learn from
24 miles and 40 min drive from the house
1st asst. position of teaching facility/golf course
Pay range 14.50-17/hr with exactly 40hr week
Lessons would be extra time up to 10hrs week
Public employee pension: already have 6 years accrued, 24 years to go at aprox age 52
Affords me the stability of a year round full time position

BOTH:
Decent benefits
Great people to work with
Provide a career that I want to work for years to come so FIRE isn't necessarily the goal just FI

please ask any questions that might be pertinent and give opinions freely.  Just trying to weigh it all out!

Thanks in advance!

CrochetStache

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 61
Re: Job choice - tough decision
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2014, 06:17:37 PM »
All other things being mostly equal, thinking long term regarding each job:

"The post-recession reality is that the customer base for businesses that appeal to the middle class is shrinking as the top tier pulls even further away." - http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/03/business/the-middle-class-is-steadily-eroding-just-ask-the-business-world.html?hp&_r=1

A job at the Municipal course most likely has the middle class customer base and is also tied to the health of the city itself, I'm guessing Cinncinati by your name? Is your city booming or are there hints of Detroit/San Bernadino?

Good luck with your choice!

sheepstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2424
Re: Job choice - tough decision
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2014, 06:52:45 PM »
Would the pension actually apply to you?  Are you going to work another 24 years?

What's your priority in the immediate future, more money or more free time?  What would you do with your free 3 months if you did the country club?  Do you have the ability to say no to OT there?  Do lessons get you same hourly rate as your regular rate at both places?

Which would be more well-regarded on your resume?  Like, if you wanted to switch to just giving lessons after FI?  Which would get you better connections?

Is there any kind of public transportation to the Muni or halfway so you could ride a bike the other part or any chance of your moving closer?


Cincy Stache

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 59
Re: Job choice - tough decision
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2014, 07:43:41 PM »
Would the pension actually apply to you?  Are you going to work another 24 years?

What's your priority in the immediate future, more money or more free time?  What would you do with your free 3 months if you did the country club?  Do you have the ability to say no to OT there?  Do lessons get you same hourly rate as your regular rate at both places?

Which would be more well-regarded on your resume?  Like, if you wanted to switch to just giving lessons after FI?  Which would get you better connections?

Is there any kind of public transportation to the Muni or halfway so you could ride a bike the other part or any chance of your moving closer?

In the muni situation the pension would apply to me.  I wouldn't be looking for the early retirement until maybe 50; since I like the career, I don't mind "working" till then.
My priority is split between $ and free time, I only require $ to survive, save, and invest with small frills here and there.
I've thought about substitute teaching for the 3 off months; while also using it as the vacation season for my family.
Yes, I would likely get similar lesson rates at both facilities, maybe 15-20% more at the country club but possibly less number of lessons.
The country club on my resume would look quite good, but it might not equal lesson income during FI, which I'm glad you see is my plan after "retirement." Lessons come via word of mouth regardless of where you work.
Public transport isn't an option to the muni bc I often need to travel with equipment.

Argyle

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 909
Re: Job choice - tough decision
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2014, 09:22:22 PM »
Realistically how long until you could move up to higher pay at the country club?

Cincy Stache

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 59
Re: Job choice - tough decision
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2014, 09:25:01 PM »
Realistically how long until you could move up to higher pay at the country club?
Not sure, could be anywhere from a year to 5.  I'm sure I'd get COL, but as for substantial raise, it wouldn't come till I became 1st asst.

sheepstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2424
Re: Job choice - tough decision
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2014, 09:35:28 PM »
My priority is split between $ and free time, I only require $ to survive, save, and invest with small frills here and there.

Hm, if either of them would fulfill your money needs, it's really all about which environment you would prefer.  That and whether you can really stand to commute an hour and twenty minutes a day.  Nearly 7 hours a week.

What would you do for health insurance the 3 months you're not employed at the private club?

Cheddar Stacker

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3714
  • Age: 41
  • Location: USA
Re: Job choice - tough decision
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2014, 10:21:41 PM »
I voted for the Muni for a handful of reasons. I am a golfer, and while I absolutely love getting to a country club maybe once a year, I don't know if it's really where I want to be every day. Some of the people are just waaaay to stuffy. Side note - this is a job I think I might be interested in doing long-term as you plan to, so as you said FIRE wouldn't be as much of a priority.

I also know someone who worked at a club for many years and it was what you described with a silly amount of hours, and a pecking order. I think the only category where the CC wins out is location; only 5 miles from home. If that's what's most important, make it your deciding factor, otherwise go public.

I like the public because you have a higher pay, a pension, a better spot in the pecking order, a 40 hour work week, and a full 12 months of pay. I understand it's not as prestigious, but it seems like the smarter choice.

My only other thought is if you like to travel or have other strong interests, maybe the 3 months/year off work would be a better reason to go Private.

Cincy Stache

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 59
Re: Job choice - tough decision
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2014, 01:18:50 PM »
Chedder: you make some good points, I'm going to see what the details of the CC position entail and evaluate further.  I really do want to stay close to home, so that I'd say is worth about 3-4k/year.

Thanks!

foobar

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 731
Re: Job choice - tough decision
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2014, 02:35:59 PM »
CC have a wide range of stuffiness from guys that just like playing a good course to the total snobs. My big concern with the CC is that you are not going to be teaching much if your working 50+ hours a week. Teaching is pretty much the value you add as the rest (running the shop or tournaments, changing grips,....) can be handled by anyone. Fixing a slice on the other hand makes you irreplaceable:) I also have to assume that is a slightly more rewarding part of the job. I haven't done the math but spending an extra 40 mins in the car is probably going to make them about neutral pay wise if you can find something to do for those other 3 months of the year.

Personally I would think about which one gives you the best chance to be a head pro since that is where your long term financial rewards will be.

I voted for the Muni for a handful of reasons. I am a golfer, and while I absolutely love getting to a country club maybe once a year, I don't know if it's really where I want to be every day. Some of the people are just waaaay to stuffy. Side note - this is a job I think I might be interested in doing long-term as you plan to, so as you said FIRE wouldn't be as much of a priority.

I also know someone who worked at a club for many years and it was what you described with a silly amount of hours, and a pecking order. I think the only category where the CC wins out is location; only 5 miles from home. If that's what's most important, make it your deciding factor, otherwise go public.

I like the public because you have a higher pay, a pension, a better spot in the pecking order, a 40 hour work week, and a full 12 months of pay. I understand it's not as prestigious, but it seems like the smarter choice.

My only other thought is if you like to travel or have other strong interests, maybe the 3 months/year off work would be a better reason to go Private.

Cincy Stache

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 59
Re: Job choice - tough decision
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2014, 07:44:13 PM »
Foobar: teaching would likely be included in the 50-60 hours during the high season for the cc.  But you are right; the teaching aspect is more valuable at the muni.
Also, I never minded stuffiness with rich folk.  I give great service to millionaires the same way I do Joe Shmoe.  Building relationships with the wealthy can be rewarding though.  If I were to go the muni route, I'd be setting myself up head pro job within the muni system.  If I go the cc route I would be setting myself up to be hp at a club but also the ability to go back to muni hp if the opp arises.

Thanks for the response, all these different prospective a are great to see.

foobar

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 731
Re: Job choice - tough decision
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2014, 08:54:42 PM »
I forgot to mention that because of the Head pro situation, I sort of discount the pension. If you are offered a head pro job somewhere(and you should be looking for one when it is reasonable), you pretty much have to take it as they tend to be super competitive jobs (there are a lot of assistants out there) I don't know what type of partial credit you would get for working 5 or 10 years so it might have more value than I think. Any other benefit (health care, 401(k),...) that need to be considered?



Foobar: teaching would likely be included in the 50-60 hours during the high season for the cc.  But you are right; the teaching aspect is more valuable at the muni.
Also, I never minded stuffiness with rich folk.  I give great service to millionaires the same way I do Joe Shmoe.  Building relationships with the wealthy can be rewarding though.  If I were to go the muni route, I'd be setting myself up head pro job within the muni system.  If I go the cc route I would be setting myself up to be hp at a club but also the ability to go back to muni hp if the opp arises.

Thanks for the response, all these different prospective a are great to see.

Cincy Stache

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 59
Re: Job choice - tough decision
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2014, 09:04:01 PM »
UPDATE: after having my interview at the CC. (I do strongly suspect I'm the strong candidate of 2)

Country Club is a 10 month position having off Jan/Feb.  (I would likely substitute teach/vacation/valet)
Pays $11/hr and average "non-peak" season week is 48hrs over 6 days.  Peak-season is 60hrs.
Teaching is included in those hours and both teaching and playing w/ the members is on the clock
Teaching would be $50 per 40 min lesson at CC, would get extra $ teaching Juniors and ladies clinics
The club would pay my $575 PGA dues, a cont' education allowance and tournament entry fees for aprox 6 tournaments/year

Muni pays aprox $16/hr and is most always 40 hours year round.  BUT, teaching is off the clock and additional time to the 40. 

Bennies are largely equal except for the pension paying into OPERS w/ muni vs. 401k and paying into SS w/ Club.

At $0.35/mile the CC job has a $3,450 advantage being only 5 miles from the house purely gas/maintenance. (counting the drive the Muni would be about 7.5 hours/week travel time)

Savings rate would be aprox 30% w/ muni and 24.5% w/ CC based on 48hr work week.

Anyone flip a vote? or anything else to weigh?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 07:01:19 AM by Cincy Stache »

Cincy Stache

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 59
Re: Job choice - tough decision
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2014, 08:12:48 PM »
Got the CC job!  Back in the business that I love and it feels soooo good.  Took a pay cut but will pay off in the long run.  Plus, the 10 minute, 5 mile drive is priceless... Well actually it's worth a lot!


Cheddar Stacker

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3714
  • Age: 41
  • Location: USA
Re: Job choice - tough decision
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2014, 08:20:01 PM »
Congrats!

windawake

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 435
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Minneapolis, MN
Re: Job choice - tough decision
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2014, 08:27:43 PM »
Got the CC job!  Back in the business that I love and it feels soooo good.  Took a pay cut but will pay off in the long run.  Plus, the 10 minute, 5 mile drive is priceless... Well actually it's worth a lot!

It wouldn't take much longer for you to bike that 5 miles! Just some encouragement. :)