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Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: lifejoy on March 22, 2014, 11:29:32 PM

Title: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: lifejoy on March 22, 2014, 11:29:32 PM
When we're all done being high-minded and on a better path or whatever it is we're doing... Do you find yourself EVER a little jealous of people around you?

Me: "Oh man, Jacob from ERE is so extreme. I wish I could be as extreme as him!" But also: "Ahh my non-Mustachian friend just went shopping... Her new clothes look AMAZING! I want to be an avid consumer, too!!"

I think jealousy can be useful, because it points out areas we may like to work on. But it can also undermine hard work (NOW I NEED NEW SHOES!). How do you deal?
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: mxt0133 on March 23, 2014, 12:18:15 AM
I think it's normal to feel a little jealous once in a while.  I know I do sometimes when I see a fancy car or nice houses and it's OK.  I just recognize that those are my initial gut reactions and that if it think about it a bit I could go out and get a nice car or a nice house but it is not in line with my long term goals and values.  I think it's important to re-evaluate your goals and values every now and then so that when the need arises you can act accordingly that is in alignment with them.  At first you will feel jealous or deprived but those feelings are fleeting and the feeling of acting in accord with your values will give you a happiness in the long run.

What's that saying, if you don't stand for something you will fall for anything.  So next time you see someone with a really nice pair of shoes, it OK to Oh and Ah for a bit.  But then let it pass and if you need to ask yourself why they are not in alignment with your long term goals.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: lexie2000 on March 23, 2014, 12:41:39 AM
In a word, no.  We've always had enough money to buy pretty much anything, but not everything.  That said, there's not much in the way of "stuff" that we want.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: fixer-upper on March 23, 2014, 12:51:55 AM
The deeper people are in debt, the more they seem to crave material possessions.  Once I got to the point where all the debts were gone and there was a pile of money in the bank, the cravings went away.

Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: happy on March 23, 2014, 01:19:25 AM
In a former life, yes from time to time. Now, no not that I can think of. I think I've found my way and am content to follow it.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: ichangedmyname on March 23, 2014, 01:47:50 AM
I'm only jealous of 20-year-old mustachians getting an early start. If I only knew.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: HappierAtHome on March 23, 2014, 02:48:37 AM
Yes. I wish I was a sufficiently advanced mustachian that I wouldn't feel jealous of others - or maybe it will come with age?

Whatever choice I make, I feel slightly jealous of the people (real or imagined) who get to enjoy the other path/s. When I resist buying something, I am jealous of those who spend without thinking. But I know on a rational level that I'm making the right choice for me.

I try to remind myself that it's a leftover biological urge from another time. Basically the same as wanting to eat more food than you need, wanting to produce children even if that's horribly inappropriate for your life stage, or even feeling lust for nick cave :-P these things were helpful when every day was a struggle for limited resources and continuing the species was all that mattered. Now, however, there's *enough* and we're left with the urges evolution created, that are simply no longer relevant.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: Squirrel away on March 23, 2014, 03:38:12 AM
The deeper people are in debt, the more they seem to crave material possessions.  Once I got to the point where all the debts were gone and there was a pile of money in the bank, the cravings went away.

Now I'm jealous of you. :)
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: gooki on March 23, 2014, 03:45:07 AM
I still impulse buy - but it's limited to the allowance I pay myself, so it can't do much in the way of financial damage.

I'm generally good for 3 months or so of no major purchase, and then I blow it and get suckered in.

It's particularly hard looking at friends nice new houses (we've been waning a new place for 3 years). Sometimes I think we should just bite the bullet and borrow $200,000 to trade up. But then I break it down and think, what is that money buying me? A bigger insulated home with one more bedroom, an extra bathroom and an internal access garage. And I think- fuck no. I'd rather have the security of no debt, and stay where we are.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: PhotoBrandon on March 23, 2014, 05:09:22 AM
I find myself constantly jealous of the incomes most people on this forum make.  Its amazing how many people have savings rates equal to the combined gross income of my wife and I.

As far as stuff though, not really.  I'd rather be debt-free than have more stuff.  Maybe once we're done digging out from this student loan pit I might care about stuff a bit more.  But I kind of doubt it, with the exception of then being able to save for a house downpayment if owning versus renting will make economic sense at that point.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: Rural on March 23, 2014, 07:02:46 AM
Every now and then. I was jealous of the convenience and utility of a table/smartphone for a couple of years. Finally I did the research and bought myself what was then the lowest-cost quality option, a Google Nexus tablet, last winter. I had eliminated a smartphone as an option (for a tablet, you pay once as long as you don't go for an overpriced data plan). I'd waited a couple of years to be sure I really wanted and would use it. I'd don't the research to get the best bargain, and I found the best price. Then I went ahead, and even though I was awarded an IPad on a grant application a few months later and no longer use the Nexus, I don't regret it at all. I'd done my due diligence and made the best decision, and I genuinely did need it for the months I used it (traveling for work).


Sometimes the jealousy is actually telling us something, but not if it occurs more often than every couple of years, I think.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: pipercat on March 23, 2014, 07:11:17 AM
Jealousy over "stuff"?  Nah, not really.  I'm definitely jealous of people who live in walk-able towns (moving is not in the cards for us for a few years, at least).  I'm also jealous of people who "get it" while so young!  If only I lived a mustachian life in my twenties!

It's all good, though.  I'm in a good place now, even if I do have to drive everywhere :)
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: ender on March 23, 2014, 07:29:51 AM
It's hardest for me on these forums honestly.

Seeing so many people making more, saving more (both percentage and absolute), and living now mmm than I do our can right now is what's hard.  Even though I'm doing damn fine by myself the "others are going to reach fire earlier" tendency is still there.

Then I realize... I love my life, like my job, am young and still saving a ton, and even I'd I have to work until I'm 50 am still going to be in a wonderful place in life and realize none if that jealousy is healthy.

It's good to get you fired up to change. It's bad when it consumes you with "grass is always greener" syndrome.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: CentimentalFreedom on March 23, 2014, 07:31:57 AM
Yes. Everyday. I see people walking around with their pretty clothes, their pretty hair, their nice cars or even hear about people taking all these nice vacations. I look in my account and see the pennies that are left behind from my lack of self control and realize that I may be in a better position. I made a decision to stop buying everything on credit and suddenly I couldn't afford anything. I realize now that I couldn't afford it to begin with. Looking back, yes I do wish I had it all back and when I think about the possible consequences I shiver with disgust. It's not worth it.

What about the job? I hate work. People whining and nagging at every possible chance they can or even the lack of gratitude from employers for the effort that you put in. I dream about the day when I can quit my jobs and just work on hobbies because the fruit of my labour is my reward. To be able to wake up and TAKE TIME to see the beautiful smiles on my little angels' faces or watch them seeking adventure in every corner of the backyard. My dream drives me to tread forward seeking the day when life begins.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: lifejoy on March 23, 2014, 09:04:39 AM
The deeper people are in debt, the more they seem to crave material possessions.  Once I got to the point where all the debts were gone and there was a pile of money in the bank, the cravings went away.

Now I'm jealous of you. :)

Lol! Me too! Wait, I mean, inspired! Haha ;)
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: Hadilly on March 23, 2014, 09:06:41 AM
Yes, though I will qualify that by saying it happens less than it used to.

Sometimes, when there are a lot of bills to pay (kid activities, dental surgeries, plane tickets that won't be reimbursed right away, etc.) and I spend time around the .5% and .25% that is all too prevalent around here, then I feel jealous.

Then I have to concentrate on all the good things in my life and remind myself of my own good fortune.

It is possible to turn jealousy around and make it a positive force by letting inspire you to save more, or reduce lifestyle, or ask for a raise.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: lifejoy on March 23, 2014, 09:09:30 AM
So maybe we should share some ideas on how to get a grip on jealousy?

I try to focus on the WHY. Why am I jealous? Why have I made different choices?

Also revisiting my goals and values.

Any other ideas?
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: spoonman on March 23, 2014, 09:16:26 AM
I don't experience jealousy as much as Status Anxiety.

Iíve taken a long look at my own situation and have come to the conclusion that my biggest enemy in life is Status Anxiety. The truth is, if it wasnít for my substantial SA, I would have been able to leave work a year ago. Right now I only have a modicum of control over my SA. I hope to change that this year, namely by following Alain de Bottonís advice.

The other thing that I have come to realize is that SA mitigation is something that needs to be cultivated. If youíre not vigilant, SA can come back and bite you hard when you least expect it (spending Thanksgiving with the in-laws, for instance).
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: payitoff on March 23, 2014, 09:48:20 AM
for me its the jealousy of having a lot of time and places to go.. i'd like to vacation every 2 months, mini vacays, at the beach, just lazing around, time time time, and money money money, not to buy things, but to experience memories.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: 2527 on March 23, 2014, 09:54:46 AM
I feel jealousy and status anxiety, and I feel it more strongly when I am dissatisfied with my own life circumstances.  There was a time when I was unemployed for 18 months, and very close to getting a job with what I consider to be a high income.  I found myself walking around on Mercedes lot looking at the cars, which is out of character for me.

I like to notice my jealousy and try to figure out what it is telling me.  If I think I am feeling something valid, for example, if I notice somebody's house and feel a little jealous of how it is decorated, I start asking myself what are a few things I could do that I would like. Similar things for seeing couples do things together, families having activities together, job success, physical fitness, etc.

I don't think well-contained and well-understood jealousy is a completely evil or immature emotion. 
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: aj_yooper on March 23, 2014, 10:08:11 AM
I am envious of people who have trimmed down their possessions to a simple level, but it is motivating me to give stuff away or sell it off.  Looking forward to a more minimalist style of living.  I am envious of homeowners who have low or lower property tax rates, but it is the current price of staying close to family and friends. 
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: effed on March 23, 2014, 10:09:27 AM
I do on occasion get 'the jealouses'. What I ask myself when feeling this is would I really (really?) want to do what they do? Or what they did in their lives? Would I really have chosen a different path and been a lawyer instead of what I have done? No.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: Prairie Stash on March 23, 2014, 10:16:17 AM
I'm pretty sure everyone feels jealousy, or the counterpart of showing off. You see examples of both here, people trying to use jealousy to get to a better life. You also see people boasting about how they have it all. I see humility and jealousy as inter related.

It's all about dealing with it. I strive to use jealousy as just another tool. If used correctly its another healthy emotion. I see a lot of excellent folk on this forum using jealousy to help them on their paths towards their goals.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: lexie2000 on March 23, 2014, 10:36:16 AM
The deeper people are in debt, the more they seem to crave material possessions.  Once I got to the point where all the debts were gone and there was a pile of money in the bank, the cravings went away.

That, for sure.  When you have money in the bank and know that if you REALLY want it you can have it, the desire for a lot of "shiny stuff" dissipates.

We knew a semi-Mustachian/Millionaire Next Door type who was retired.  Any time he got a hankering to buy "something" (and he could well afford anything that he wanted), he would give himself a cooling off period of 2-3 weeks.  He said that if he couldn't "dial it out" (as he called it), he'd go buy it.  He said it was surprising at how often he came to the conclusion that he didn't really want "whatever".

We relocated for work and the old codger and his wife (20 years our senior) have since passed away.  We lived next door to them and we miss them terribly.  They were the only couple that we ever met that got what we were doing.  We got together for cocktails on the patio quite frequently and often our discussions were about saving, spending, the market, early retirement, etc.   
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: pachnik on March 23, 2014, 11:37:49 AM
Around here, I do have some feelings of envy.  Mainly, wishing that I had found out about something like this earlier in life - like maybe even my 30's.  I would probably be FI now.  But you know, you find something when you find it. 

Then on the other hand, I do enjoy watching young people succeed and not waste their money on crap.  I think consumer culture is really over the top.

Sometimes, but very rarely, I will wish I had a "thing" that someone else has.  I don't usually envy anyone their vacations though because I don't like travelling very much and the cost of overseas trips is in the $1000's.  For me, it isn't worth it.  I am very happy to go to a local resort - maybe an hour or two of driving from home - and stay there for a few days with either my husband or a friend.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: Jamesqf on March 23, 2014, 11:42:15 AM
I am envious of people...

FINALLY someone who understands the difference between jealousy and envy!  To me a big part of jealousy is that you want to have something instead of that other person having it - think e.g. jealous spouses.  Envy just means that you'd like one of them too.  So when I see for instance a Tesla Roadster, I don't want to rip the keys out of the owner's hand, I just wistfully think about buying one of my own.  (But aside from the money, I could never fit both dogs in one :-()

About the only thing I really envy is people who have a lot of land (and I say that knowing that by many people's standards I already have a lot.)  For the rest, well, if I really wanted it that much, I could buy it.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: Mazzinator on March 23, 2014, 11:57:35 AM
The deeper people are in debt, the more they seem to crave material possessions.  Once I got to the point where all the debts were gone and there was a pile of money in the bank, the cravings went away.

Thanks so much for this, and to those who agreed. This is where we are, and sadly where we have ALWAYS been. As we near a zero net worth it is getting better and after reading the "debt fatigue" post we made some minor changes (relaxed the budget) But i am hoping these cravings go away because it just makes me feel worse!

Thanks again you guys ;-)
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: anisotropy on March 23, 2014, 12:43:41 PM
So maybe we should share some ideas on how to get a grip on jealousy?

I try to focus on the WHY. Why am I jealous? Why have I made different choices?

Also revisiting my goals and values.

Any other ideas?

get a grip on jealousy? NEVER!!!!

[jealousy] leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering (for other people). The dark side will set you free, all you need is the will to act.

UNLIMITED POWER !!1!!11!1

I am always jeaous.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: annann on March 23, 2014, 01:52:18 PM
I have been fortunate as jealousy and envy have never been much of a problem for me.  When I feel these things, it alerts me to think about what is really bothering me.

I am retired and I did not accumulate any wealth until I retired.  I had no debt but also had no real wealth.  I appreciate what we have and I appreciate my ability to understand money and investments and all the things that allows accumulation of wealth.  As I get older the allure of "things" diminishes.   I enjoy being comfortable and having a nice lifestyle.  There are things that I could eliminate from the budget but it is not necessary and it would decrease our enjoyment of life.  I have no desire to have more and more money just because I can.  We all ultimately decide what is important to us and you create your life and your spending based on what you want. 

One interesting concept I learned about long ago is that what you think you want and what you really want are often not the same.  The wants you have that are subconscious are more powerful that what you want consciously.  It is amazing how easily we do things that keep us from achieving the goals we think we want.  It is because what we really want (or feel we deserve) is a stronger motivator and will keep us making mistakes until we discover what is motivating us and how to change it.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: zolotiyeruki on March 23, 2014, 02:49:10 PM
I certainly get envious at times.  I envy those who have enough that they can invest in something (for example, rental properties), and know that even if they lose money in the deal, they'll still be financially ok.  I envy those who have more time on their hands to spend on hobbies.  I envy those who live in cheaperhouses in lower-taxed states.  I envy those who have nice gun collections :)  I envy those who have a big chunk of land to live on and explore.

But then I look at how incredibly blessed I am, married to the most wonderful girl in the world, with five amazing kids, in a house that fits our needs, with two inexpensive, reliable cars and a third bay in the garage for tinkering, a job I love that's close enough to bike, and a wonderful neighborhood and neighbors.  It's hard to complain too loudly :)
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: steveo on March 23, 2014, 02:49:49 PM
I don't really get jealous. As an example I saw a guy driving a Lamborghini recently and I don't want that at all. My friend recently got a big promotion at work and I did get a little envious but it passes pretty quickly.

I get more frustrated that I'm not pushing things more on the FI side than what I am now.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: hedge on March 23, 2014, 03:32:21 PM
I have found myself becoming more and more private about my financial situation and how I look at others as I go through this journey. I don't talk about it. And I try not to think about it with others. That seems to breed the most contentment.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: griffin on March 23, 2014, 03:41:05 PM
Like a few people above, I am most envious of the salaries many people on these forums are making. I've definitely spent some time daydreaming about a 6 figure income. This is probably useful envy, since it inspires me to make more.
I definitely find myself a bit envious of my friends spending as well, mostly in regards to eating out. Of course, once I actually think it through I realize that buying premade food instead of cooking my own will make me less happy in the long term, and the envy disappears. FI is the tastiest dish on the menu :)
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: Bookworm on March 23, 2014, 04:19:37 PM
As far as "things" go, I do get envious sometimes when my frugal choices are costing me time and work.  The example that immediately pops into my mind is my tile countertops.  I  HATE grout.  I spend a ridiculous amount of time cleaning it because it's constantly collecting grime.  Every time I find myself scrubbing that damned grout, I get envious of all the people with granite countertops who don't have to scrub grout.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: FuckRx on March 23, 2014, 04:31:29 PM
So maybe we should share some ideas on how to get a grip on jealousy?

I try to focus on the WHY. Why am I jealous? Why have I made different choices?

Also revisiting my goals and values.

Any other ideas?

i'm deadly jealous of many things in life and i think i've come to terms with it. someone who is better looking, more eloquent, really nice classic car, beautifully designed house, someone more frugal than me, smarter, taller, more well hung. so maybe in response to what you asked i suppose telling urself that even if u had 9/10 things then you'd still want that other 1 thing and when you get 10/10 things you probably gonna come up with something else. if u are "happy" with ur current car/current job/current apartment/current intelligence then maybe i just should appreciate it and be thankful that i at least have this, cuz i could have even less. 
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: imustachemystash on March 23, 2014, 05:02:52 PM
So maybe we should share some ideas on how to get a grip on jealousy?

I try to focus on the WHY. Why am I jealous? Why have I made different choices?

Also revisiting my goals and values.

Any other ideas?

Yes.  Do you do any volunteer work? It really helps put things in perspective.  I rarely get jealous because I work with kids with severe to profound disabilities.  I see how hard it is on families and every day I come home grateful that I have two healthy children.  I know there will always be someone more fortunate than me and some less fortunate. 
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: Anatidae V on March 23, 2014, 05:23:19 PM
When I get envious, I either whinge about it to someone else and then feel better, or use it to work out what's not working for me in my life right now. I have really bad perfectionism, so if I keep it in my head and don't do one of those things, it turns into a little self hate spiral (and I only worked out the sequence of events recently).

If you're envious or jealous, maybe it's time to look a little deeper at it and work out exactly which bit you're jealous of. New clothes could be mindless spending, or the novelty. My aunt likes novelty in her wardrobe, so she bus cheap dresses form the op shops and then donates some when she wants new ones, so her collection never gets too big.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: fixer-upper on March 23, 2014, 06:44:21 PM
As far as "things" go, I do get envious sometimes when my frugal choices are costing me time and work.  The example that immediately pops into my mind is my tile countertops.  I  HATE grout.  I spend a ridiculous amount of time cleaning it because it's constantly collecting grime.  Every time I find myself scrubbing that damned grout, I get envious of all the people with granite countertops who don't have to scrub grout.

I'm not envious of the granite either.  It's cold, porous, needs resealed every so often, etc.  Laminate or corian are much easier to take care of.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: mxt0133 on March 23, 2014, 07:46:55 PM
[quote author=imustachemystash link=topic=15722.msg251017#msg251017
Yes.  Do you do any volunteer work? It really helps put things in perspective.  I rarely get jealous because I work with kids with severe to profound disabilities.  I see how hard it is on families and every day I come home grateful that I have two healthy children.  I know there will always be someone more fortunate than me and some less fortunate.
[/quote]

This really does put things in perspective.  I went to the Philippines to help out family members after Typhoon Yolanda and will continue to seek out similar volunteer/aid opportunities to set an example for my kids and to expand their horizons.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: Squirrel away on March 24, 2014, 03:33:41 AM
I was tossing and turning last night as I couldn't sleep so I forced myself to compile a gratitude list in my head. I have a roof over my head, clean water, a husband who loves me, more than enough food etc... I find that helpful.

So maybe we should share some ideas on how to get a grip on jealousy?

I try to focus on the WHY. Why am I jealous? Why have I made different choices?

Also revisiting my goals and values.

Any other ideas?

Yes.  Do you do any volunteer work? It really helps put things in perspective.  I rarely get jealous because I work with kids with severe to profound disabilities.  I see how hard it is on families and every day I come home grateful that I have two healthy children.  I know there will always be someone more fortunate than me and some less fortunate. 

I agree, that when I find myself getting jealous I try and think of the millions of people in the world that have it much worse than me.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: MrsPete on March 24, 2014, 06:09:37 AM
Definitely!  I think all of us have moments when we think, "Look at that house they're living in!  And I'm still in this little starter place."  Or, "They're going on vacation yet again?" 

But they're moments.  Just moments. 

Realistic, practical me knows that I've made the best choices for my family, and we're better off than most people.  I wouldn't change places with those folks -- and since I have the money in the bank, I could do so!  They, however, could not change places with me because their resources wouldn't allow it. 
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: nereo on March 24, 2014, 06:47:53 AM
ah... Jealousy and Envy.  I think they're twins.
I fight being jealous over the salaries that many of my peers make, especially when I don't think it adds as much value to the world as other jobs.  For example, one family friend makes $80k distributing fashionable shoes to retail stores. For some reason it's the worst when they're living anti-mustachian lifestyles.  There's always a voice in my head screaming "if I had your income I'd be FI/FIRE in < 10 years!  Instead you are just accumulating debt!" Sometimes it's hard to keep my mouth shut, but I manage.

Interestingly, I don't seem to mind higher salaries of friends who spend responsibly and add more value to the world.  Like the couple I know who are both doctors, earn easily over $200k but volunteer for a few days each week at the walk-in clinic and share a single 8 year old VW Jetta.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: Thegoblinchief on March 24, 2014, 07:17:48 AM
I'm only jealous of people who learned about early retirement/frugality in their teens or 20s. I'd already be retired, or pretty damn close if I knew what I know now at age 18.

Pity (wage slavery) and frustration (at unnecessary environmental depletion) are the only emotions I feel towards standard/hyper consumers.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: skunkfunk on March 24, 2014, 07:20:52 AM
Skills. Whether it's a better engineer, or a master machinist, vocalist, etc. I just wish I could do everything.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: HAULIN3 on March 24, 2014, 07:26:45 AM
I'm only jealous of 20-year-old mustachians getting an early start. If I only knew.


EXACTLY!!!!!
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: Elaine on March 24, 2014, 07:29:06 AM
I sometimes feel jealous of people with perfectly healthy bodies. Also, I can get a bit jealous of other people's travels. A purse or fancy apartment mean nothing to me, but facebook photos from all over the world travels of my peers can sometimes sting. I just remind myself that I will get there. And with the body thing, I remind myself that I'm lucky to be here at all.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: GreenAcres on March 24, 2014, 07:37:14 AM
Yes, it happens to me but not as much as it used to.  I get jealous of friends I have who don't have to work often and get to travel all the time.  I also was very jealous of the people who had parent's to pay for their entire college tuition and room/board.  I am still working on getting jealous over these things, but I am no longer jealous of material items.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: Thegoblinchief on March 24, 2014, 01:17:37 PM
I am envious of people...

FINALLY someone who understands the difference between jealousy and envy!  To me a big part of jealousy is that you want to have something instead of that other person having it - think e.g. jealous spouses.  Envy just means that you'd like one of them too.  So when I see for instance a Tesla Roadster, I don't want to rip the keys out of the owner's hand, I just wistfully think about buying one of my own.  (But aside from the money, I could never fit both dogs in one :-()

About the only thing I really envy is people who have a lot of land (and I say that knowing that by many people's standards I already have a lot.)  For the rest, well, if I really wanted it that much, I could buy it.

Weird, I've always had it explained (in religious context growing up) the opposite way. Jealousy was possessive, e.g "our god is a jealous god" but envy was destructive.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: GuitarStv on March 24, 2014, 01:43:18 PM
Honestly . . . no, not really.  If I want something, I'll mull it over for a while . . . research some options . . . look for cheaper/other things . . . try to figure out if I can make do with something I already own . . . and then decide to get it or not.  This keeps me from making impulse buys, but also keeps me from depriving myself of stuff that I really would enjoy owning / experiences I would enjoy having.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: spoonman on March 24, 2014, 09:15:13 PM
Actually, @FuckRx mentioned something that I do feel envious of a lot: eloquence.  More specifically, a ready command of language.  Some people I work with simply have the talking knack, they can talk/BS their way through anything and they can give great presentations.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: bikebum on March 24, 2014, 09:22:41 PM
Actually, @FuckRx mentioned something that I do feel envious of a lot: eloquence.  More specifically, a ready command of language.  Some people I work with simply have the talking knack, they can talk/BS their way through anything and they can give great presentations.

I was gonna say no, but then I read this and agree.

I rarely get jealous because the people around me usually don't have anything that I want. I bet I'd get jealous more often if I got to hang out with some people from this forum.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: Cheddar Stacker on March 24, 2014, 09:34:10 PM
I struggle with envy occasionally, but much less since finding this site. This time of year is worse than others for me since I prepare a lot of tax returns. When I'm doing one for someone my age with $200K in wages, $25K in dividends, $50K in capital gains, $100K in K-1 income, etc. it's hard not to wonder how quickly I could reach FI in their shoes.

But then I remember LIFE IS AWESOME (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/life-is-awesome!!!-here-is-why/?topicseen) and every other thing I've learned here and I realize how lucky I am. I'd rather have my perspective than their salary/car/vacation/whatever.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: dragoncar on March 24, 2014, 09:55:32 PM
Not over stuff, but definitely housing.  This might be my FIRE Achilles heel and I may end up working an extra 5-10 years to get something way unmustachian (moderate size in expensive area -- typical 2br in SF is pushing a million, plus you have to consider the additional taxes).

edit: I'm guessing I'm going to request a facepunching on this topic within a few months

I am envious of people...

FINALLY someone who understands the difference between jealousy and envy!  To me a big part of jealousy is that you want to have something instead of that other person having it - think e.g. jealous spouses.  Envy just means that you'd like one of them too.  So when I see for instance a Tesla Roadster, I don't want to rip the keys out of the owner's hand, I just wistfully think about buying one of my own.  (But aside from the money, I could never fit both dogs in one :-()

About the only thing I really envy is people who have a lot of land (and I say that knowing that by many people's standards I already have a lot.)  For the rest, well, if I really wanted it that much, I could buy it.

woah... mind blown.  Don't know why I never paid attention to this, as I'm typically a stickler for language (e.g. inherent vs. intrinsic... discuss)
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: lifejoy on March 24, 2014, 10:28:15 PM
This thread is helping me be less jealous :)

Too often I fall into the Facebook trap: http://waitbutwhy.com/2013/09/why-generation-y-yuppies-are-unhappy.html
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: Cwadda on March 24, 2014, 10:34:46 PM
The less I have, the more content with what I already have. It's like a positive feedback cycle. The more I see the consumerist world unfold around me, the less I desire.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: YK-Phil on March 24, 2014, 10:42:13 PM
No jealousy. But sometimes anger when I see obscene lifestyles side by side with poverty and homelessness in our supposedly just and equal society.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: RNwastash on March 24, 2014, 10:48:53 PM
I'm only jealous of 20-year-old mustachians getting an early start. If I only knew.

This is true for me.  I used to have that large beautiful home until my husband lost his job.  Now I am much happier with my smaller, reasonable home that will be paid for in 5 years.  If this blog was around 20 years ago, I'd be ER 5 years ago.  I also oooh and aaah when a friend or co-worker shows me their new conquest.  However, in my mind, I just think of how much they are going to have to pay for that thing over the long run.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: HappierAtHome on March 25, 2014, 12:18:19 AM
This thread is helping me be less jealous :)

Too often I fall into the Facebook trap: http://waitbutwhy.com/2013/09/why-generation-y-yuppies-are-unhappy.html

That's part of why I deleted facebook... I felt like if I kept reading other people's posts, I'd end up suffering from depression.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: EricL on March 25, 2014, 01:07:41 PM
I used to be jealous on a regular basis.  I grew up in a very affluent community where everyone seemed rich.  In retrospect "seemed" may have been an operative word for a lot of them.  But at the time it really made me depressed.  But after reading MMM and ERE, my perspective has changed.  Yeah, I suppose I can still be jealous billionaires, but most other people living large arouse pity and embarrassment.  Unless their Mustachians in which case I might mistake them for being poorer than me.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: dude on March 25, 2014, 01:09:50 PM
I'm only jealous of the people who figured this FIRE shit out decades before I did!!!  Damn, if I could go back in time . . .
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: Cassie on March 25, 2014, 05:54:02 PM
Occasionally of some of the people here that have saved way more $ then us.  Also we downsized our home and while it is very nice it is older. sometimes when someone buys a new home & I get the tour it brings a bit of envy but that quickly passes when I think about having a mortgage, etc. I think it is human nature to have some envy. However, some of my younger friends are envious of us because we were able to semi-retire earlier then many people & they are still working f.t. It is human nature to want what you do not have:))
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: 2527 on March 25, 2014, 06:28:03 PM
Here is something I'm jealous of:

Everybody has something they are good at.  I happen to be good at saving money and investing it and managing it.  I am really good at it, which is to say, more or less the same as everybody else on this website.  But I can't talk about it.  I could, however, take some of it and use it to buy impressive things.  Then I could talk about them:  my car, my vacation, etc.  But I can't talk about the process of investing, the decisions, and certainly not about the numbers.

Other people can talk about the things they are good at:  art, a musical instrument, cooking, etc.

Maybe I need to take up a hobby I can talk about. 
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: ShortInSeattle on March 25, 2014, 07:02:13 PM
Oddly enough I don't really feel envy. Certainly never about "stuff." I mean, if I wanted a Ferrari I could technically buy one. It would trash decades of retirement savings and be totally dumb, but it's not impossible. Most of us will reach FI with a Ferrari or two worth of savings.  Fancy shoes are the same on a smaller scale.I could buy fancy shoes bit I'd rather retire early, so I get my shoes at Ross and feel good about my choice. I do sometimes admire said fancy footwear in the window. :)

I think envy disappears when you stop wanting flashy stuff, or when you realize you could be flashy, you're just choosing not to.

I do sometimes envy someone's skills or situation, but I try to turn it onto admiration, or even better, action.  "It's awesome that you and your hubby run a successful business... how did you get there?" "So how did you land your high paying job?"

I interview the heck out of those successful f-ers and copy them, in other words. :)


Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: tmac on March 26, 2014, 06:55:58 AM
I'm usually very content with what I have, but I'm currently experiencing a raging desire for:

1) An electric-assist cargo bike.

2) A year or two in Norway to study animals.


Thanks a lot, forum, for disrupting my normally Zen outlook. ;)
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: sleepyguy on March 26, 2014, 07:00:08 AM
Nope, lifes good :)
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: arebelspy on March 26, 2014, 07:17:07 AM
No.

Actually, @FuckRx mentioned something that I do feel envious of a lot: eloquence.  More specifically, a ready command of language.  Some people I work with simply have the talking knack, they can talk/BS their way through anything and they can give great presentations.

I was gonna say no, but then I read this and agree.

I rarely get jealous because the people around me usually don't have anything that I want. I bet I'd get jealous more often if I got to hang out with some people from this forum.

If I notice something like that (as there are frequently people who are better at things than I am), my reaction is never envy.

I might briefly think "I wish I was more X" or "I wish I was better at Y" but I don't feel any envy, and if I decide it's important to me, I'll work to acquire it.

I think one reason why I don't feel it is that I know I could have it if I wanted it.

Social skills, for example.  I'm not the most outgoing person.  Sometimes I'll note someone who is, and think "that's neat" - and then at times I work on my skills in those areas.  But I don't feel envious of those people, because if I wanted to be more social, I could.

I think one is envious of things they know they can't have (for whatever reason). Since I know I can have / do anything, I have nothing to be envious of.  If I want it, it just means is that I have to put in the work.

(I avoided this thread for a few days, thinking it might be too complainy-pants for me, glad that wasn't the case. It's awesome how many people here said no, I'm pretty impressed.  If we're all being honest, I'd think we're doing much better than the general population in that regard, though I have no data to support that hunch.)
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: Exflyboy on March 26, 2014, 02:26:26 PM
I sometimes feel jealous of people with perfectly healthy bodies. Also, I can get a bit jealous of other people's travels. A purse or fancy apartment mean nothing to me, but facebook photos from all over the world travels of my peers can sometimes sting. I just remind myself that I will get there. And with the body thing, I remind myself that I'm lucky to be here at all.

I was watching the Frontline documentary about drug resistant TB in Somalia last night.. A lot of those folks won't be around very long.. They are lucky to get drugs at all and the ones they do get are just awful with the side effects.. the drugs kill as often as the TB does...:(

A few of those folks were asking "why me".

And yet I still envy a Dodge Charger.. even after I sold my 200mph airplane... Like talk about "First World" problems!

Frank
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: Albert on March 26, 2014, 04:33:19 PM
For material things rarely and not for long. I have plenty of stuff myself. More often for people who are more outgoing than me and make friends easily. Never been very good at it and probably never will be...
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: travelbug on March 26, 2014, 04:36:19 PM
Yep, sort of.

Rather than being jealous of people, it's about stuff.

I still covet expensive superfluous stuff, but I very rarely purchase any of it and let people know for birthdays and Christmas etc. so they can direct their love and money towards my desires.

I honestly covet ER more. We are FI and it has been a hard decade-long slog, so I am reluctant to fritter the savings away even though we can well afford it.

Cool thread.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: frugalamber on March 26, 2014, 04:49:03 PM
This happened to me recently.

I love watching/measuring/comparing houses. One of our close relatives & friends bought new houses. Bigger than us - see where it is going. I got jealous; knowing fully well i love my current house; going forward i will only go smaller. But the Envy felt for a few hours was there.

Hubs later helped me calculate how more they will pay for the privilege of the bigger house; i know there is a reason why i love my planner guy.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: lifejoy on March 26, 2014, 05:56:39 PM
No.

Actually, @FuckRx mentioned something that I do feel envious of a lot: eloquence.  More specifically, a ready command of language.  Some people I work with simply have the talking knack, they can talk/BS their way through anything and they can give great presentations.

I was gonna say no, but then I read this and agree.

I rarely get jealous because the people around me usually don't have anything that I want. I bet I'd get jealous more often if I got to hang out with some people from this forum.

If I notice something like that (as there are frequently people who are better at things than I am), my reaction is never envy.

I might briefly think "I wish I was more X" or "I wish I was better at Y" but I don't feel any envy, and if I decide it's important to me, I'll work to acquire it.

I think one reason why I don't feel it is that I know I could have it if I wanted it.

Social skills, for example.  I'm not the most outgoing person.  Sometimes I'll note someone who is, and think "that's neat" - and then at times I work on my skills in those areas.  But I don't feel envious of those people, because if I wanted to be more social, I could.

I think one is envious of things they know they can't have (for whatever reason). Since I know I can have / do anything, I have nothing to be envious of.  If I want it, it just means is that I have to put in the work.

(I avoided this thread for a few days, thinking it might be too complainy-pants for me, glad that wasn't the case. It's awesome how many people here said no, I'm pretty impressed.  If we're all being honest, I'd think we're doing much better than the general population in that regard, though I have no data to support that hunch.)

This thread didn't disappoint me, either! Pretty interesting and thought-provoking responses. I especially like your perspective: if I can have / do anything, what is there to be envious of? GOOD POINT.

I sometimes try to channel the persona of a zen buddhist monk... want/need nothin'! But that only gets me so far.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: bikebum on March 26, 2014, 06:45:47 PM
I am envious of people...

FINALLY someone who understands the difference between jealousy and envy!  To me a big part of jealousy is that you want to have something instead of that other person having it - think e.g. jealous spouses.  Envy just means that you'd like one of them too.  So when I see for instance a Tesla Roadster, I don't want to rip the keys out of the owner's hand, I just wistfully think about buying one of my own.  (But aside from the money, I could never fit both dogs in one :-()

About the only thing I really envy is people who have a lot of land (and I say that knowing that by many people's standards I already have a lot.)  For the rest, well, if I really wanted it that much, I could buy it.

woah... mind blown.  Don't know why I never paid attention to this, as I'm typically a stickler for language (e.g. inherent vs. intrinsic... discuss)

Me too, I didn't know there is a difference.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: kaetana on March 27, 2014, 01:16:23 AM
I'm envious of people who travel a lot and manage to still be saving for ER/live within their budget if they've already retired. I really wish I had done more travelling when I was younger. I'm only 28, but I feel like it's so much harder to pack up and leave now that I have a husband, a mortgage, and a stable job. I tell myself I'll travel more when we've retired, but it seems SO far away!
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: innerscorecard on March 27, 2014, 01:20:02 AM
I used to be jealous all the time. I was in prestigious schools and preparing for a career in a very prestige-driven field (not coincidentally one of the most miserable fields). I compared myself to others, because I was trained to do so. And I was miserable.

I am just recovering from that right now. I find Warren Buffett's concept of the inner scorecard crucial to my new life and identity.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: scrubbyfish on March 27, 2014, 05:06:41 AM
Love this thread!

And yep for me.

My life is largely awesome, and I feel very happy much of the time, but I do feel very real envy/pain over:

-a detached home
-a home with a full and established garden
-beauty that comes via clothes, esthetic treatments

plus non-material things such as:

-artistic ability, including an awesome singing voice
-ability to work one of those "power jobs" that pay lots
-extroversion/strong constitution/physical and mental ability to socialize/party/travel lots
-practical skills like renovating
-physical strength, or the self-discipline to achieve that
-marriage (but only good ones, hee)

Ha! What a long list! And I've probably only scratched the surface.

I don't go around feeling like crap, but these are all things that genuinely trigger a sad and soft -or sharp and pokey- feeling of envy in me.

Honestly, I often feel the only real "strengths" I have are self-reflection, finding creative solutions, and advocating hard for folks (adults and children) that need help. I value these deeply, but they don't translate into the big bucks or the detached home I dream of!

I have long had a theory that envy gives us a clue not only to what we want, but also to what we have capacity for. I'm not sure I believe that any more, but I still like the positive nature of this thought.

I liked pondering this. Thanks, libraryjoy, for the topic, and to everyone who has posted!
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: GalTexas on March 27, 2014, 08:25:27 AM
I'm jealous of the dr profiled in 'millionaire next door'. The one who parks his 20 yr old VW in his driveway and his neighbors are annoyed.

I'm jealous because that is where I want to be - but it takes a lot of work and motivation to get there. 

We went to a kid's birthday party a few months back and people were oohing and ahhing over some lamborghini or ferrari someone drove to the party.  I asked, 'if he drove that, what did his wife and kids come in?'.   So he owns a nice car, but sounds like a crap father/husband. 
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: iwasjustwondering on March 27, 2014, 09:16:36 AM
I am envious of people...

FINALLY someone who understands the difference between jealousy and envy!  To me a big part of jealousy is that you want to have something instead of that other person having it - think e.g. jealous spouses.  Envy just means that you'd like one of them too.  So when I see for instance a Tesla Roadster, I don't want to rip the keys out of the owner's hand, I just wistfully think about buying one of my own.  (But aside from the money, I could never fit both dogs in one :-()

About the only thing I really envy is people who have a lot of land (and I say that knowing that by many people's standards I already have a lot.)  For the rest, well, if I really wanted it that much, I could buy it.

Weird, I've always had it explained (in religious context growing up) the opposite way. Jealousy was possessive, e.g "our god is a jealous god" but envy was destructive.

Jealousy is when you are afraid someone else will take what you already have.  Envy is when you want what other people have.  They're very different.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: rocksinmyhead on March 27, 2014, 09:30:50 AM
The deeper people are in debt, the more they seem to crave material possessions.  Once I got to the point where all the debts were gone and there was a pile of money in the bank, the cravings went away.

Now I'm jealous of you. :)

Lol! Me too! Wait, I mean, inspired! Haha ;)

me too!! I look forward to being there someday :)

this is such an interesting thread. I definitely frequently feel jealous of people's cool vacations or that they are already buying their first house. for me, the feeling always passes quickly because I remember 1) we are doing REALLY well, I make a great salary and I am proud of how responsible I'm being with it and that I know what my financial priorities are (basically I think "they probably can't even really afford that anyway," which may be mean, but whatever) and 2) I am SO happy with the non-material things in my life, specifically my boyfriend and my dog. (also my family, but thinking about that just makes me jealous of people who live near their families because I wish I lived near mine and I can't right now. haha.)

I am also sort of jealous of people whose families paid for college, because that would have given me a real leg up on FI, but I can let that feeling go too because like I said I wouldn't trade my family for anything :)
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: lifejoy on March 27, 2014, 11:29:58 AM
I am envious of people...

FINALLY someone who understands the difference between jealousy and envy!  To me a big part of jealousy is that you want to have something instead of that other person having it - think e.g. jealous spouses.  Envy just means that you'd like one of them too.  So when I see for instance a Tesla Roadster, I don't want to rip the keys out of the owner's hand, I just wistfully think about buying one of my own.  (But aside from the money, I could never fit both dogs in one :-()

About the only thing I really envy is people who have a lot of land (and I say that knowing that by many people's standards I already have a lot.)  For the rest, well, if I really wanted it that much, I could buy it.

Weird, I've always had it explained (in religious context growing up) the opposite way. Jealousy was possessive, e.g "our god is a jealous god" but envy was destructive.

Jealousy is when you are afraid someone else will take what you already have.  Envy is when you want what other people have.  They're very different.

I should totally rename this thread, "Envy - does it happen to you?" heh ;) Thanks for the nice and simple clarification!
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: socaso on March 27, 2014, 12:51:01 PM
I feel envious of the people on this thread who live in less expensive areas. I hate the cost of living in my city. I'd love to move but it's not just my choice since I have a family. When I look at our situation compared to others in our area I think we are doing well because we have savings and no debt and I don't know anyone else in our situation but I hate not owning a home at my age.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: soccerluvof4 on March 27, 2014, 01:46:28 PM
Jealousy is a trait of insecurity. Usually a person that is Jealous of their partner is not showing how much they love them but how insecure they are. I have always felt that as the true sense of the word. So for me no. There are things sure I would like to have BUT i am more thankful for what i do have. And i could have most of the things I dont have within reason. I think mostly its perception. Happiness is a choice so chose to be happy with what you do have and dont be jealous of what you dont have!
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: luigi49 on March 27, 2014, 01:58:39 PM
I stopped being jealous at 18y of age. 
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: rubybeth on March 27, 2014, 02:18:54 PM
I'm occasionally envious of those who buy houses and get dogs. I really want to own a house and have a dog. But then I remember that buying doesn't make sense for us right now, and that dogs are fun but require work and money (and I visit my parents' dog regularly, she's my little buddy, and if I had my own dog, I might see her less, which makes me sad).
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: bye-bye Ms. FancyPants on June 05, 2014, 07:03:34 AM
The less I have, the more content with what I already have. It's like a positive feedback cycle. The more I see the consumerist world unfold around me, the less I desire.

Ah, wow, I'm going to print this out and post it on my mirror.  What a great motto!
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: ace1224 on June 05, 2014, 07:38:13 AM
i get jealous and envious. 
i get jealous bc sometimes i'm not a nice person and it makes me mad when certain people in my life get these like really super awesome breaks and i feel like i never do and i work hard and good shit should happen to me dammit.  but then i get over it bc being that mad takes a lot of energy and i'm too lazy to waste energy like that.

and i get envious of peoples boats.  i want one.  i could prolly go buy one cash if i really really wanted to.  but mostly i'm envious of the riding on the water part, not so much when i think of upkeep and boat fees.  i should look into a boat share or something. 
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: shotgunwilly on June 05, 2014, 08:00:15 AM
I struggle with being jealous.  It's something I've had problems with in everything.

Whenever my friend gets a brand new boat, or a badass truck I catch myself wishing I had those things.  But I also think about the debt they take on or the amount they spent and how much further back it puts their retirement and I can control the feelings.

Something I REALLY struggle with is being jealous of the financial success of my peers.  I have a good friend that has been EXTREMELY lucky to have the high paying job he has and all the stuff he has. (the one who is in debt with the truck and boat).  I also have a friend who was frugal as hell, worked his butt off for a home builder, then started his own small company and grew it to something great in one year.  I find myself jealous that he is in the position that he is.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: oldladystache on June 05, 2014, 08:09:18 AM
A few months ago i met a guy with a Tesla. OOOOoooo Pretty. So shiny and beautiful. For a moment I wanted one too.

Then I remembered the way I treat my '06 Pontiac Vibe. It lives in the driveway, gets cleaned only when the rain cleans it (rare in southern California) and I don't worry about scrapes and bumps. If I had a Tesla I'd worry about keeping it perfect, or more likely I wouldn't take proper care of it and I'd feel bad about it. So I realized I actually don't want one.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: homeymomma on June 05, 2014, 08:25:37 AM
I get super envious at different things at different times in my life... It's always tied to a feeling of insecurity. I am envious of the big things - houses. We live (with family, for free) in an incredibly high income area, actually I think it was measured to have the highest per capita income of anywhere in the country in the last couple years. McMansions don't even cut it here, it's like, Saudi prince palaces and stuff. Totally ridiculous. But then we pass a sweet little bungalow or rancher from the 1940s and I'm like, surely, something like that is in reach! But alas, they are still 1 million+. Then I go down the (very dangerous road) of "oh if only we'd put off kids or if I leave them and go to work" we could maybe, someday, after busting our butts, own a home. But even then it seems unattainable, not least of all because that's not truly what we want from life, at all.

This is not to mention the occasional pangs I get when I watch the endless string of Lexus SUVs parked around here. Saw a Maserati the other day. In this area, that's NBD. It's one thing to say, haha, you have a 400/mo car payment and we don't, it's another to think, wow, we literally couldn't afford to make those payments, even if we wanted to.

I know my reaction should be, oh those people probably have tons of debt and will have to work forever. But honestly, I just don't believe that. The incomes around here are so high, these people probably max out their 401Ks without even noticing it. So, yeah, envy is rampant.

My imagined solution is to move to a lower COL area and get away from the super high earners, so hopefully that will happen someday. If only my husband was less of a diligent worker and more of a go-getter (ah, another thing I'm envious of) lol.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: hexdexorex on June 05, 2014, 08:39:56 AM
Nah cus I know the guilty feeling ill have after buying the item. I test drove a tesla a few months ago...and as soon as I got on the highway I was stuck in a traffic jam. Yeah it might be better to be stuck in a jam in a 6 figure car rather than my 4 figure car but for 6 figures if it doesnt fly over the traffic...is it really worth that much? :)
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: MidwestGal on June 05, 2014, 08:45:16 AM
I don't generally do social networking sites, so that keeps any envy/jealousy to a minimum.  I'm not by nature very envious in the first place, but it probably would be harder looking at other folks' best photos of (fill in the blank) all the time.

It does help to have been in much worse financial situations than I am currently in though!
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: Wildflame on June 05, 2014, 10:27:12 AM
I envy people who know what they want out of life and work towards it.

Sometimes I think I know what I want, but when I do I don't seem to put any effort in to getting it.

Sometimes I can work hard, but when I do I don't know what I want, so I dissipate that capability to exert myself into doing necessary but minor things around the house.

In the meantime, I save. At least when I do manage to get both purpose and drive simultaneously, I'll be financially ready too.

Strangely, since getting a decent emergency fund, I find myself like arebelspy with regard to actual stuff - physical objects no longer draw me as they used to, because I could buy pretty much anything I could possibly want with cash. And I end up realising I didn't really want that thing, I wanted the emotional thrill of being the kind of person who could own such a thing. But since I could buy it, I was that person already. Hmm...
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: Bakari on June 05, 2014, 10:40:50 AM
Whenever I think about my special friend's other lovers, I feel a sharp twinge of what I assume should be called jealousy.

Which is totally unreasonable, given I have a couple other's myself.  She has expressed similar sentiment (in the form of me talking about recent experiences, and her saying "I don't want to know")

Everyone is safe and everything is open and honest, no one thinks there's anything wrong in principal, but we still feel this way.  Maybe its deeply ingrained culture, but I believe at least part of it is natural and automatic, part of being human.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: apfroggy0408 on June 05, 2014, 10:54:01 AM
My brother just financed a brand new 2014 Camaro SS 1LE, basically a ZR1 camaro minus the supercharger.

It's an awesome piece of machinery but I'm definitely not jealous of the price tag!!
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: Megatron on June 05, 2014, 01:21:49 PM
I'm read the bogelheads forum and I'm constantly jealous when people, i.e. doctors post their networth when laying out their asset allocations.
I look at it and think "dayaam, I could've been retired 10 times over by now, why are they still working"
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: ambimammular on June 05, 2014, 01:46:01 PM
I get jealous of the people with no debt.  If we weren't still making house payments we could be living at MMM's expense levels.  And that mortgage payment redirected would push us to ER in a hurry. 



Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: Chuck on June 05, 2014, 02:06:08 PM
All the time I'm envious: Envious of people's nicer cars, nicer clothes, bigger homes, newer computers...

Sometimes I even find myself at the mall or dealerships. But it always passes. My 'stache is growing, I live better than 90-95% of the people on this Earth, and I want for nothing I enjoy.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: CestMoi on June 06, 2014, 11:33:12 AM
I definitely envy those who start the MMM lifestyle very early. I would have, too, had I known then, and I'd be past retirement by now. I've always been good with my money, but it's only the past number of years I've been very focused on it.

If I ever feel frustrated about not being retired yet, I remember that I'm in a creative field (no pensions, relatively low salaries for this area), live in one of the most expensive areas of the country, and did it on my own. That was always my financial goal, to be financially self-directed, and I've accomplished it. That feels so great.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: Oscar_C on June 06, 2014, 08:00:12 PM
I am jealous of the fact that all people here greatly exceeds my own Then again I'm 23, so I'm still starting, but even people younger than me tend to have better incomes.

In the end, while I know that jealousy can give me motivation, I do dislike being poor.
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: RootofGood on June 06, 2014, 08:45:35 PM
I get jealous of silly things.  Like a friend that lives 2 minutes walk from our elementary school (how convenient that would be instead of our 10 minute walk).  Then I think about how we are 5 minutes walking distance from the grocery store and restaurants, and the friend is 15 minutes walk from the same store.

We could easily live wherever we wanted, but moving isn't worth the hassle and would have its pluses and minuses. 

Otherwise, I don't get jealous about possessions.  If we want a new car, we can afford it.  New gadget?  We can buy it.  We are mostly lucky to not want for anything. 

Even for folks who have 10x our wealth, I don't think it can buy much more happiness. 

Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: JT on June 06, 2014, 09:17:04 PM
Yup!  Ever since becoming a single Mum working full time and discovering MMM, I've been envious of people having holidays, people being able to stay home with their children, people spending freely on whatever they want....

But this isn't how I AM; and only recently figured it was a transition to a different, more financially-wise head space!

Because I am truly grateful for what my budget, savings rate, bike riding, job within 7kms, eating at home, buying second hand have achieved for us.  I recently resigned from my job and know we're good through to December.  It's the first experiment to retiring!

It truly is like Neo being unplugged in the Matrix!!!
Title: Re: Jealousy - does it happen to you?
Post by: libertarian4321 on June 08, 2014, 05:29:22 AM
All the time I'm envious: Envious of people's nicer cars, nicer clothes, bigger homes, newer computers...

Sometimes I even find myself at the mall or dealerships. But it always passes. My 'stache is growing, I live better than 90-95% of the people on this Earth, and I want for nothing I enjoy.

I love to drive to the car dealership in my ratty old truck, look at the new $30,000+ trucks, tell myself "DAMN, that's a lot of money."  Then say to myself "screw it, the old truck still runs fine, and I really don't care if my broke ass friends and neighbors think I'm broke.  I'd rather be rich than have the trappings of wealth (and the debt that usually comes with it)."

Unless you have a huge income, you can either be rich, or look rich.  You probably can't do both.

I'd rather be rich than look rich and be in debt up to my eyeballs...