Is Target a department store?

[nereo]

Share your input on my family’s latest debate…

[ATtiny85]

The grocery section eliminates it from my definition. Even without it, I would still not call it one, just because…

[okisok]

I believe it's defined as a big box store, not a department store.

[iluvzbeach]

It’s in the same category as Walmart or Kmart, but 1000x better.

[mistymoney]

from wikipedia....

Target Corporation (doing business as Target and stylized in all lowercase since 2018) is an American big box department store chain headquartered in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

[bacchi]

I'd say that it is and I believe that "department store" credit card bonuses count it as one.

[GilesMM]

Absolutely.  It is on of the only remaining ones. Department stores sell a variety of goods including clothes and home goods.  Groceries qualify it as "Department Store Plus"!

Why is this a discussion topic here?  Sounds like a dumb fight for Reddit people.

[MayDay]

No because I consider a department store to be higher end and include multiple checkout locations in each department.

Of course kohls doesn't do that. Kohl's is the least nice department store. Kohl's is basically Walmart with 50% off coupons.

[NorCal]

Credit card companies do not categorize them as a department store.

Target and Walmart are large enough and unique enough that they have their own Merchant Category Code.

And since we know banks are always right, the debate is clearly settled.

[YttriumNitrate]

In my opinion, department stores:
    1) Are usually connected to a mall
    2) Usually have paths leading to various sections rather aisle arranged on a grid pattern
    3) Have a huge perfume display near the main entrance that's nearly impossible to avoid

Based on these three criteria, I would not classify Target as a department store.

[ender]

https://corporate.target.com/about

Target is a general merchandise retailer with stores in all 50 U.S. states and the District of Columbia.

They don't define themselves as a department store :)

[sonofsven]

I don't know, I don't think I've ever shopped in one.

[Dicey]

I worked at Sears for four years while I was in college during the late "70s. I spent all of the '90s working at Nordstrom. In between, I was a sales rep who called on Department Stores. Target has never fit the Department Store profile, in my experienced opinion.

Amazon has changed all that and Department Stores are an endangered species.

Just for fun, I will try to list all the Department Stores I have been to (as a customer or vendor), defunct or still struggling to survive. I'm mostly a West Coaster, so I may miss a few that are familiar to others.

Nordstrom, Macy's, Neiman Marcus, Saks Fifth Avenue, Magnin's (J. & I.), Lord & Taylor, Robinson's, May Company, Sears, JC Penney, Dillard's, Kohl's, Foley's, Carson Pirie Scott, Bullock's, Bon Marche, Liberty House, Marshall Fields, The Broadway, Broadway Southwest, Buffum's, Bullocks Wilshire, Bullocks, Burdine's, Harris Company, Boston Stores, Mervyn's, McCaulou's, Filene's, Burdine's, Emporium, Capwells, Korvette's, Woolworth, Gemco, Fedco, Montgomery Ward, Lord & Taylor, Belk, Gottschalk's, Hinshaw's, Henchey's, Joslin's, Rich's, Madigan's, Ohrbach's. [Bonus: Harrod's, Marks & Spencer, Le Bon Marche, Galeries Lafayette, Printemps, Holt Renfrew]

There might be more, but that's enough for now. I'm not sure if Korvette's was a full-on DS, I just remember I used to go there with my grandmother. Some would argue with Woolworth's, but they had dedicated staff in each department in the olden days, which is why they're on the list. Also, the one from my childhood was in a mall. I consider Kohl's more of a hybrid, because of their central checkout system, like Target or a grocery store. If they used to have a DS model, it was before I ever encountered one.

I have always been a saver, but it occurs to me that if I had less retail experience, even though it was the source of my income, I'd have hit FIRE sooner. Every store on my list contains at least one specific memory.

Theres one name I couldn't remember. In about 1984, I flew to Denver to give a single training class at a small, high-end Department Store. I remember that I stayed at The Brown Palace and walked to the store. A little google-fu did not give me the answer I sought, but did offer up this delightful rabbit hole:

http://www.thedepartmentstoremuseum.org/2011/



http://www.thedepartmentstoremuseum.org/2011/

[Metta]

I worked at Sears for four years while I was in college during the late "70s. I spent all of the '90s working at Nordstrom. In between, I was a sales rep who called on Department Stores. Target has never fit the Department Store profile, in my experienced opinion.

Amazon has changed all that and Department Stores are an endangered species.

Just for fun, I will try to list all the Department Stores I have been to (as a customer or vendor), defunct or still struggling to survive. I'm mostly a West Coaster, so I may miss a few that are familiar to others.

Nordstrom, Macy's, Neiman Marcus, Saks Fifth Avenue, Magnin's (J. & I.), Lord & Taylor, Robinson's, May Company, Sears, JC Penney, Dillard's, Kohl's, Foley's, Carson Pirie Scott, Bullock's, Bon Marche, Liberty House, Marshall Fields, The Broadway, Broadway Southwest, Buffum's, Bullocks Wilshire, Bullocks, Burdine's, Harris Company, Boston Stores, Mervyn's, McCaulou's, Filene's, Burdine's, Emporium, Capwells, Korvette's, Woolworth, Gemco, Fedco, Montgomery Ward, Lord & Taylor, Belk, Gottschalk's, Hinshaw's, Henchey's, Joslin's, Rich's, Madigan's, Ohrbach's. [Bonus: Harrod's, Marks & Spencer, Le Bon Marche, Galeries Lafayette, Printemps, Holt Renfrew]

There might be more, but that's enough for now. I'm not sure if Korvette's was a full-on DS, I just remember I used to go there with my grandmother. Some would argue with Woolworth's, but they had dedicated staff in each department in the olden days, which is why they're on the list. Also, the one from my childhood was in a mall. I consider Kohl's more of a hybrid, because of their central checkout system, like Target or a grocery store. If they used to have a DS model, it was before I ever encountered one.

I have always been a saver, but it occurs to me that if I had less retail experience, even though it was the source of my income, I'd have hit FIRE sooner. Every store on my list contains at least one specific memory.

Theres one name I couldn't remember. In about 1984, I flew to Denver to give a single training class at a small, high-end Department Store. I remember that I stayed at The Brown Palace and walked to the store. A little google-fu did not give me the answer I sought, but did offer up this delightful rabbit hole:

http://www.thedepartmentstoremuseum.org/2011/



http://www.thedepartmentstoremuseum.org/2011/

Dicey, I think the name you are looking for is the Denver Dry Goods or (by 1984) called The Denver. It had an ice skating rink in front and a place you could buy stamps for your philately hobby.

My husband has corrected me. The ice skating rink was in front of May D&F.

Anyway, cool site, Dicey!

[Dicey]

I worked at Sears for four years while I was in college during the late "70s. I spent all of the '90s working at Nordstrom. In between, I was a sales rep who called on Department Stores. Target has never fit the Department Store profile, in my experienced opinion.

Amazon has changed all that and Department Stores are an endangered species.

Just for fun, I will try to list all the Department Stores I have been to (as a customer or vendor), defunct or still struggling to survive. I'm mostly a West Coaster, so I may miss a few that are familiar to others.

Nordstrom, Macy's, Neiman Marcus, Saks Fifth Avenue, Magnin's (J. & I.), Lord & Taylor, Robinson's, May Company, Sears, JC Penney, Dillard's, Kohl's, Foley's, Carson Pirie Scott, Bullock's, Bon Marche, Liberty House, Marshall Fields, The Broadway, Broadway Southwest, Buffum's, Bullocks Wilshire, Bullocks, Burdine's, Harris Company, Boston Stores, Mervyn's, McCaulou's, Filene's, Burdine's, Emporium, Capwells, Korvette's, Woolworth, Gemco, Fedco, Montgomery Ward, Lord & Taylor, Belk, Gottschalk's, Hinshaw's, Henchey's, Joslin's, Rich's, Madigan's, Ohrbach's. [Bonus: Harrod's, Marks & Spencer, Le Bon Marche, Galeries Lafayette, Printemps, Holt Renfrew]

There might be more, but that's enough for now. I'm not sure if Korvette's was a full-on DS, I just remember I used to go there with my grandmother. Some would argue with Woolworth's, but they had dedicated staff in each department in the olden days, which is why they're on the list. Also, the one from my childhood was in a mall. I consider Kohl's more of a hybrid, because of their central checkout system, like Target or a grocery store. If they used to have a DS model, it was before I ever encountered one.

I have always been a saver, but it occurs to me that if I had less retail experience, even though it was the source of my income, I'd have hit FIRE sooner. Every store on my list contains at least one specific memory.

Theres one name I couldn't remember. In about 1984, I flew to Denver to give a single training class at a small, high-end Department Store. I remember that I stayed at The Brown Palace and walked to the store. A little google-fu did not give me the answer I sought, but did offer up this delightful rabbit hole:

http://www.thedepartmentstoremuseum.org/2011/



http://www.thedepartmentstoremuseum.org/2011/

Dicey, I think the name you are looking for is the Denver Dry Goods or (by 1984) called The Denver. It had an ice skating rink in front and a place you could buy stamps for your philately hobby.

My husband has corrected me. The ice skating rink was in front of May D&F.

Anyway, cool site, Dicey!

I don't think so. It definitely had more of a boutique feel. DDG was huge.

[AMandM]

Dicey, I'm curious--how does Holt Renfrew come to be on your list but not Ogilvy, the Bay, or Eaton's?

[lifeisshort123]

No…. But….

Target started as a brainchild of the Dayton (later Dayton-Hudson) Corporation.  Dayton’s was a popular Department Store in Minnesota and Hudson’s was a popular Detroit-based Department store.  The company was eager to find a way to create “upscale discounting”, and so they experimented with some early stores called “Target” (to not undermine the core “Dayton’s” brand) in the suburbs of Minneapolis.

So… it is a discount store, but has the roots of a Department Store embedded into the DNA of the firm.

[dang1]

Target's got departments: Clothing, Shoes & Accessories, Home & Patio, Baby, Electronics, School & Office, Toys, Sports, Fitness & Outdoors, Entertainment, Beauty & Personal Care, Health, Household Essentials, Pets, Grocery, etc https://www.target.com/c/shop-all-categories/-/N-5xsxf

[Dicey]

Dicey, I'm curious--how does Holt Renfrew come to be on your list but not Ogilvy, the Bay, or Eaton's?

Because I was deep into Mustachanism by then. It was a business trip, and three of us tacked on a couple of extra days, using points. Our goal was to try every mode of travel that was available in Toronto, so we didn't actually shop much. The boss was looking for a MOB dress, so she talked us into shopping at ONE store, and I'm fairly certain that's the one she chose. I didn't buy anything myself, so I could be mistaken about which store we went to, but it was fancy.

When I worked for Nordstrom, I had a customer who was a buyer for Hudson Bay Company ("the Bay"?). I'm sorry we didn't have time to check them out, either.

Just for grins, lemme see if I can remember all the modes of transportation we used: Plane, train, shuttle bus to a work dinner, jitney bus to Niagara Falls, where we took a helicopter ride, then a ferry, a double decker sightseeing bus, and one cab ride. Uber didn't exist at the time. We stayed at the Intercontinental on the company's dime, then moved to the Marriott at Rogers Field. We stayed on points, got a field view room, caught part of a game and watched them close the roof at the end. I shared my room with a colleague, and she paid for all my meals that happened after the meeting was over.

When was I there? Funny you should ask. Remember the plane that crashed on landing and everyone survived? Yeah, then. We were scheduled to fly out the next day. We called the airline, told them we'd be fine if they wanted to push us back a day so they could get the crash passengers home. We got to stay an extra day, do more fun stuff and I used more points for the extra hotel night. It was a fantastic trip. On top of it all, the weather was glorious!

[Turtle]

I worked at Sears for four years while I was in college during the late "70s. I spent all of the '90s working at Nordstrom. In between, I was a sales rep who called on Department Stores. Target has never fit the Department Store profile, in my experienced opinion.

Amazon has changed all that and Department Stores are an endangered species.

Just for fun, I will try to list all the Department Stores I have been to (as a customer or vendor), defunct or still struggling to survive. I'm mostly a West Coaster, so I may miss a few that are familiar to others.

Nordstrom, Macy's, Neiman Marcus, Saks Fifth Avenue, Magnin's (J. & I.), Lord & Taylor, Robinson's, May Company, Sears, JC Penney, Dillard's, Kohl's, Foley's, Carson Pirie Scott, Bullock's, Bon Marche, Liberty House, Marshall Fields, The Broadway, Broadway Southwest, Buffum's, Bullocks Wilshire, Bullocks, Burdine's, Harris Company, Boston Stores, Mervyn's, McCaulou's, Filene's, Burdine's, Emporium, Capwells, Korvette's, Woolworth, Gemco, Fedco, Montgomery Ward, Lord & Taylor, Belk, Gottschalk's, Hinshaw's, Henchey's, Joslin's, Rich's, Madigan's, Ohrbach's. [Bonus: Harrod's, Marks & Spencer, Le Bon Marche, Galeries Lafayette, Printemps, Holt Renfrew]

There might be more, but that's enough for now. I'm not sure if Korvette's was a full-on DS, I just remember I used to go there with my grandmother. Some would argue with Woolworth's, but they had dedicated staff in each department in the olden days, which is why they're on the list. Also, the one from my childhood was in a mall. I consider Kohl's more of a hybrid, because of their central checkout system, like Target or a grocery store. If they used to have a DS model, it was before I ever encountered one.

I have always been a saver, but it occurs to me that if I had less retail experience, even though it was the source of my income, I'd have hit FIRE sooner. Every store on my list contains at least one specific memory.

Theres one name I couldn't remember. In about 1984, I flew to Denver to give a single training class at a small, high-end Department Store. I remember that I stayed at The Brown Palace and walked to the store. A little google-fu did not give me the answer I sought, but did offer up this delightful rabbit hole:

http://www.thedepartmentstoremuseum.org/2011/



http://www.thedepartmentstoremuseum.org/2011/

Local to where I am now -- Stix, Baer & Fuller was bought by Dillard's and Famous Barr was bought by Macy's.  Sears & JCPenney of course.  We also used to have Venture as a Big Box style store here before Target.  There's one mall in the very upscale suburb  that has L&T, Neiman Marcus, Nordstrom and Saks, but I've only ever been in it a handful of times. 

I also remember Jordan Marsh, Marshall Fields, Mervyn's, Montgomery Ward and May company from places I lived as a young adult.  I've been in a couple Woolworth's but they were on the smaller side.   Hmmm.  Come to think of it, May Company bought Famous Barr first, but didn't change the name, if I recall correctly.

[JupiterGreen]

Interesting, I voted department store. Did not realize it could be classified as something else.

[simonsez]

Have never given it thought so went with the fun option of 'Huh?' so I can sit back and try to be convinced by the best arguments. :-)

[nereo]

I was curious how wikipedia defined Target:

Target Corporation (doing business as Target and stylized in all lowercase since 2018) is an American big box department store chain headquartered in Minneapolis, Minnesota. It is the seventh largest retailer in the United States, and a component of the S&P 500 Index.[4] Target was established as the discount division of Dayton's department store of Minneapolis in 1962.

[Scotland2016]

It's funny you ask because my Target recently remodeled and the look is much more department store than big box store. They've really opened up the front of the store and arranged the makeup department in a certain way. It feels like a Dillards.

[iluvzbeach]

@nereo You can't just leave us hanging.  We need to hear more about this family debate and which camp you're in.

[nereo]

Interestingly, this informal poll is currently split right down the middle.

As for my family debate, I’m leaning more towards “it is a department store” but was surprised just how strongly other members argued for or against. I’m probably in a target about 3-4x a year so it’s more amusing to me. FWIW, there are two in my area, one of which is in a mall and took over the space vacated by a “legacy” department store (I think it was once a JC Pennys), and there are multiple cashier locations (on the street side, the mall side, the outdoor/patio section and by the pharmacy, plus the electronic dept for high-ticket items). I’m not sure what “else” it would need to be “more” of a department store. I guess some disqualify it for having a large grocery section, but I personally don’t see that as a division. Macys does sell some luxury snacks and have cafes inside - seems like a small step to include groceries.

[Dancin'Dog]

I've always found it interesting how many people rate Target so much better than Walmart.  I agree Target is nicer, but IMO not much better.  I don't really enjoy shopping at either of them. 

[Morning Glory]

I've always found it interesting how many people rate Target so much better than Walmart.  I agree Target is nicer, but IMO not much better.  I don't really enjoy shopping at either of them.

This is geographical: Target in Minnesota is much larger and nicer than Walmart, has friendlier lighting,  and there are more of them so it's usually less crowded.  Where i live now in North Carolina , the Target is small, crowded,  and frequently out of desired items. The light/sound experience is still a little better than Walmart though.

[Cranky]

I've always found it interesting how many people rate Target so much better than Walmart.  I agree Target is nicer, but IMO not much better.  I don't really enjoy shopping at either of them.

This is geographical: Target in Minnesota is much larger and nicer than Walmart, has friendlier lighting,  and there are more of them so it's usually less crowded.  Where i live now in North Carolina , the Target is small, crowded,  and frequently out of desired items. The light/sound experience is still a little better than Walmart though.

The nearest WalMart to me looks like it hasn't been remodeled since it opened. It's the most depressing looking store I've ever seen. We went in to buy camp stove fuel, and I was stunned at how awful it is.

Target is way more attractive, but I think most of their stuff is pretty low quality.

[iris lily]

I believe it's defined as a big box store, not a department store.

yes it’s a big box store. It doesn’t mean it doesn’t have departments, but department store refers to traditional multi story buildings that used to be downtown exclusively but now they’re in a mall too. They are anchor stores in a mall usually

[nereo]

I believe it's defined as a big box store, not a department store.

yes it’s a big box store. It doesn’t mean it doesn’t have departments, but department store refers to traditional multi story buildings that used to be downtown exclusively but now they’re in a mall too. They are anchor stores in a mall usually

So what about the Targets that have increasingly moved in to malls, occupying the former department stores with multiple stories? Are those Targets department stores?

[dcheesi]

Target is a discount "mart", just like Walmart or K-mart. It has been it's own category for a long time now, long before concepts like "big box" came into vogue. Cheaper than full-service department stores, but the quality, service, and "ambiance" take a hit as well.

Target tries to position itself as a little more upscale and "hip", which perhaps blurs the lines in some people's minds. But really they're much closer to Walmart than they are to Macy's.

[iris lily]

I believe it's defined as a big box store, not a department store.

yes it’s a big box store. It doesn’t mean it doesn’t have departments, but department store refers to traditional multi story buildings that used to be downtown exclusively but now they’re in a mall too. They are anchor stores in a mall usually

So what about the Targets that have increasingly moved in to malls, occupying the former department stores with multiple stories? Are those Targets department stores?

I have not seen that here, but when that happens as you describe, I would say yes, they are department stores.

[ender]

I've always found it interesting how many people rate Target so much better than Walmart.  I agree Target is nicer, but IMO not much better.  I don't really enjoy shopping at either of them.

For me, simply having carts that consistently work and aren't annoying would make me prefer Target over Walmart. Though I like a lot of other things about Target better too but this sticks out as the most frequently annoying :)

I've not lived close to Costco to know their cart situation, but the other day I had a cart at Sams Club which actually worked correctly and it was a noteworthy event to me.

[merula]

As a Minnesotan, I consider myself a Target expert, and I'm going with "not a department store", on the basis that Target Corp (fka Dayton-Hudson) exited the department store business in 2004 with the sale of Marshall Field's stores.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2004-06-10-0406100363-story.html

"The move gets Target out of the department store business and frees it from a division that was profitable but slow-growing."

In addition, if we're citing Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Department_store#Types

"Some sources may refer to the following types of stores as department stores, even they are not generally considered as such:

Hypermarkets (discount superstores with full grocery offerings, such as Target, Walmart and Carrefour)[6]
Variety stores, also known in the U.S. as five and dimes"

[merula]

As a Minnesotan, I consider myself a Target expert, and I'm going with "not a department store", on the basis that Target Corp (fka Dayton-Hudson) exited the department store business in 2004 with the sale of Marshall Field's stores.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2004-06-10-0406100363-story.html

"The move gets Target out of the department store business and frees it from a division that was profitable but slow-growing."

In addition, if we're citing Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Department_store#Types

"Some sources may refer to the following types of stores as department stores, even they are not generally considered as such:

Hypermarkets (discount superstores with full grocery offerings, such as Target, Walmart and Carrefour)[6]
Variety stores, also known in the U.S. as five and dimes"

It is kinda funny that "some sources" includes other Wiki pages.