Author Topic: Is Protein Powder Helpful to Muscle Building for the Average Person?  (Read 14786 times)

mm1970

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Re: Is Protein Powder Helpful to Muscle Building for the Average Person?
« Reply #150 on: April 20, 2023, 05:49:19 PM »
I feel weak, cranky, and will usually get dizzy/lightheaded when I'm really hungry.  It's different from feeling like you need to eat or craving food - I don't feel like eating is all that necessary when I'm really hungry.

Yeah, I don't think I've ever gotten to that phase. I've done several 5-day fasts and journaled them. The first two days were the "hungriest" and then I wasn't really hungry. I felt more energetic the last day than the rest, but I had to break the fast due pre-planned social reasons. I wonder how long I could go before I got to true hunger. I'm also obese so I'm sure that's a factor.

I ran into it several times when I was learning to cycle long distances.  Eventually as you're going you'll just run out of fuel . . . and then things get dark really fast.  You can't go another inch, and want to lay down on the ground and cry.  It's a trip.  :P

Bonking. It's the WORST.
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englishteacheralex

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Re: Is Protein Powder Helpful to Muscle Building for the Average Person?
« Reply #151 on: May 04, 2023, 12:33:00 PM »
Quick update:

For about one month now I've been doing the "No S Diet"--No snacks, sweets, or seconds except on days that start with S. So far I've lost 5 lbs, which is great. I've learned that I was snacking out of boredom, not hunger, and though it's not been a cinch to stop with the snacking, it is getting easier, especially since I'm quite sure I don't really NEED the snack.

I've been tracking my calories and "macros" this whole time, and it looks like I average about 85 grams of protein a day. I weigh 153 and do a whole body lifting workout three days a week. The advice for protein online seems quite varied. Some folks say 1 gram per pound of body weight, which would mean that 85 grams is too low.

A friend of mine is doing flavorless protein powder that I think is mainly collagen (not whey). She mixes it into things like oatmeal or scrambled eggs. Seems interesting but I'm not sure it's worth the money.

I listened to season two of a great podcast called "The Dream" and was surprised to discover that the supplement industry is entirely unregulated. This has given me second thoughts about any kind of protein powder...but is protein powder a supplement or a food?

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Is Protein Powder Helpful to Muscle Building for the Average Person?
« Reply #152 on: May 04, 2023, 01:54:50 PM »
Pretty sure it's a supplement, unfortunately.

Metalcat

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Re: Is Protein Powder Helpful to Muscle Building for the Average Person?
« Reply #153 on: May 04, 2023, 01:57:13 PM »
Protein powder is absolutely a supplement.

But a lot of supplements are just ultra processed food, so it's not a clear line.

slappy

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Re: Is Protein Powder Helpful to Muscle Building for the Average Person?
« Reply #154 on: May 23, 2023, 09:17:27 AM »
I mean, you could just get more protein from food and not worry about the powder, if it's causing you that much angst.

sonofsven

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Re: Is Protein Powder Helpful to Muscle Building for the Average Person?
« Reply #155 on: October 09, 2024, 10:15:20 AM »
I watched this video today and it reminded me of this thread, and what I was trying to explain upthread about eating and glucose spikes, especially breakfast.
It's important to eat foods in the right order to avoid glucose spikes, as well as eating the right foods.

https://youtu.be/3esF-pNAM9c?si=9ylc8PJNWYMcNA3V


dividendman

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Re: Is Protein Powder Helpful to Muscle Building for the Average Person?
« Reply #156 on: October 09, 2024, 10:35:51 AM »
I watched this video today and it reminded me of this thread, and what I was trying to explain upthread about eating and glucose spikes, especially breakfast.
It's important to eat foods in the right order to avoid glucose spikes, as well as eating the right foods.

https://youtu.be/3esF-pNAM9c?si=9ylc8PJNWYMcNA3V

I'd suggest doing more research and not just going by that youtube video. Glucose, glucose sensitivity, "spikes" etc. and the order in which you eat food may not have the impact on all-cause mortality, health, etc. that you might think from these youtube "experts".

GuitarStv

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Re: Is Protein Powder Helpful to Muscle Building for the Average Person?
« Reply #157 on: October 09, 2024, 11:08:11 AM »
Glucose spikes aren't even a bad thing.  In certain circumstances they can accelerate muscle growth and weight loss (specifically post exercise and when combined with protein).

sonofsven

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Re: Is Protein Powder Helpful to Muscle Building for the Average Person?
« Reply #158 on: October 09, 2024, 12:06:06 PM »
I watched this video today and it reminded me of this thread, and what I was trying to explain upthread about eating and glucose spikes, especially breakfast.
It's important to eat foods in the right order to avoid glucose spikes, as well as eating the right foods.

https://youtu.be/3esF-pNAM9c?si=9ylc8PJNWYMcNA3V

I'd suggest doing more research and not just going by that youtube video. Glucose, glucose sensitivity, "spikes" etc. and the order in which you eat food may not have the impact on all-cause mortality, health, etc. that you might think from these youtube "experts".

Did you even watch the video?

dividendman

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Re: Is Protein Powder Helpful to Muscle Building for the Average Person?
« Reply #159 on: October 09, 2024, 01:12:04 PM »
I watched this video today and it reminded me of this thread, and what I was trying to explain upthread about eating and glucose spikes, especially breakfast.
It's important to eat foods in the right order to avoid glucose spikes, as well as eating the right foods.

https://youtu.be/3esF-pNAM9c?si=9ylc8PJNWYMcNA3V

I'd suggest doing more research and not just going by that youtube video. Glucose, glucose sensitivity, "spikes" etc. and the order in which you eat food may not have the impact on all-cause mortality, health, etc. that you might think from these youtube "experts".

Did you even watch the video?

No, but I've seen (Jessie Inchauspé) before and she's just a snake oil salesperson like most of these people who have found the "one cause" or "one cure" for unhealthiness and it's all about sugar that causes hunger and unhealthiness. But anyway, if you think glucose is *the* problem that's up to you.

The good news is you can buy her supplement, eat it before eating cakes and donuts and be fine.

index

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Re: Is Protein Powder Helpful to Muscle Building for the Average Person?
« Reply #160 on: October 09, 2024, 01:22:16 PM »
I watched this video today and it reminded me of this thread, and what I was trying to explain upthread about eating and glucose spikes, especially breakfast.
It's important to eat foods in the right order to avoid glucose spikes, as well as eating the right foods.

https://youtu.be/3esF-pNAM9c?si=9ylc8PJNWYMcNA3V

I'd suggest doing more research and not just going by that youtube video. Glucose, glucose sensitivity, "spikes" etc. and the order in which you eat food may not have the impact on all-cause mortality, health, etc. that you might think from these youtube "experts".

Did you even watch the video?

They clearly did not watch the video. I found it really interesting; thank you for sharing it. The tips in the video are supported by science and I don't see a downside to avoiding unnecessary spikes in glucose. @GuitarStv the guest would probably agree with you and combining glucose with protein and movement before/after eating were two of their key tenants.

They recommended -
1. eat a savory breakfast without sugar (avoids a daily glucose spike/crash cycle)
2. have a tbsp. of vinegar before your largest meal (slows digestion)
3. start a meal with fiber (slows digestion)
4. Move after eating (blood flow to muscles helps store glucose)   
   


englishteacheralex

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Re: Is Protein Powder Helpful to Muscle Building for the Average Person?
« Reply #161 on: October 09, 2024, 03:58:04 PM »
Oh hi! Funny, this thread was kind of the beginning of my shift to a somewhat healthier approach to eating/exercise.

I can provide an update:

Some replies in the thread recommended that I track my eating/caloric intake and figure out some specific goals for my health. TBH my biggest concern was weight gain; my doctor didn't like my most recent numbers because I had gained about fifteen lbs in less than two years. For the first time in my life, my BMI was in the "overweight" category, and my cholesterol levels were not ideal, either.

So I tracked my calories for three weeks, and started realizing that I consumed a lot more calories than I thought because I was eating many "healthy" snacks throughout the day--mainly protein bar type snacks. I was also rewarding/numbing myself with food-based treats like brownies and chips at work. I thought it was fine because I exercise almost every day, but clearly exercise wasn't enough.

Somebody on the thread recommended the "No S" Diet, so I bought that book and listened to the guy's podcast. I liked the simplicity and that I didn't have to buy anything special...actually, it led me to STOP buying all the snacks and junk food.

I am a fairly religious person and I decided there was also a concerning spiritual aspect to all the numbing I was doing with food, so I replaced the snacks with walking and listening to podcasts at work when I needed a reward/break. I work at a beautiful campus and walking does feel like a reward to me.

So during the week, I only eat three meals a day, never have seconds at a meal, avoid all snacks and sweets, and then during the weekend I'm a bit more liberal with my diet to avoid feeling deprived and to keep the habits sustainable. I don't drink during the week, but I do sometimes have a drink or two on weekends.

I walk 10k steps/day (I have a fitbit) and I do a simple weight lifting routine three times a week at home. I really hate lifting weights so it's a quick routine with 15 lb dumbbells that hits all the major functional strength training moves but takes about 20 minutes.

With all that, I lost almost 20 lbs and I'm still going strong about 1.5 years later. It took over a year to lose that much weight and I have stopped losing but have been holding steady for about six months. My cholesterol levels are normal again and my doctor was happy with my weight.

As far as what I eat for the three meals a day, I honestly don't bother myself much about it and eat whatever I feel like making. My husband and I cook for ourselves for 9 out of 10 meals and I figure if I take the trouble to make something from scratch, it's probably healthy enough. So right now, for example, I'm eating a potato soup chowder that I made last night for lunch. But I am pretty conscious of trying to make sure there's fat, protein, carbs and fiber in every meal. I do eat Ezekiel bread a lot because I try to get a lot of fiber in all my meals for digestion and satiety. Satiety is super important to being able to not snack. It's a bit miserable trying to go without eating for six hours in between meals if you aren't intentional about protein and fiber.

So as far as PROTEIN POWDER! The original topic here!

...I actually bought some unflavored whey isolate protein powder two months ago and I put a scoop in my smoothie on weight training days. I have a smoothie every morning for breakfast--I put loads of different stuff in there that all have various purposes and the liquid is water, no juice or plant-based milks. If I put protein and fiber in the smoothie I find it does actually keep me sated until lunch, so I figure it's fine (lots of health gurus say smoothies are terrible, but I reckon that's more about Jamba Juice milkshake-style smoothies rather than what I make).

Anyway I feel pretty good these days! I reckon there must be something true about the glucose spike thing being bad, because my sugar fixes during work used to leave me miserable, and I really don't experience that feeling at all anymore.

Thanks to everyone who weighed in here. Especially the No S diet: that was really perfect for me.

NorthernIkigai

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Re: Is Protein Powder Helpful to Muscle Building for the Average Person?
« Reply #162 on: October 10, 2024, 04:44:52 AM »
WOW, congratulations! I hadn't seen this thread before but it's so nice to be able to jump straight to the happy ending! I'm glad you've found what works for you in terms of both routines, energy levels, health data, and mentally.


Paper Chaser

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Re: Is Protein Powder Helpful to Muscle Building for the Average Person?
« Reply #163 on: October 10, 2024, 05:25:52 AM »
Great job englishteacheralex!

thedigitalone

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Re: Is Protein Powder Helpful to Muscle Building for the Average Person?
« Reply #164 on: October 10, 2024, 03:00:34 PM »
I noticed a posting over at Hacker News from someone that put together a protein powder price tracking tool and thought this thread might find it handy, I have no association with it. They aggregates all of the prices once per day and sort by price per 25g serving so you can see what is the lowest cost per gram. https://nutritionprices.com/

All of their links are affiliate so do your own search if you want to avoid that.

Source article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41765939

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Is Protein Powder Helpful to Muscle Building for the Average Person?
« Reply #165 on: October 11, 2024, 10:14:15 AM »
I was also inspired to try No S based on this thread and ETA's recommendation. I haven't had her success (no weight loss) but at least I'm saving money on ice cream and enjoying my meals more since I am actually hungry.

sonofsven

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Re: Is Protein Powder Helpful to Muscle Building for the Average Person?
« Reply #166 on: October 11, 2024, 02:00:33 PM »
Oh hi! Funny, this thread was kind of the beginning of my shift to a somewhat healthier approach to eating/exercise.

I can provide an update:

Some replies in the thread recommended that I track my eating/caloric intake and figure out some specific goals for my health. TBH my biggest concern was weight gain; my doctor didn't like my most recent numbers because I had gained about fifteen lbs in less than two years. For the first time in my life, my BMI was in the "overweight" category, and my cholesterol levels were not ideal, either.

So I tracked my calories for three weeks, and started realizing that I consumed a lot more calories than I thought because I was eating many "healthy" snacks throughout the day--mainly protein bar type snacks. I was also rewarding/numbing myself with food-based treats like brownies and chips at work. I thought it was fine because I exercise almost every day, but clearly exercise wasn't enough.

Somebody on the thread recommended the "No S" Diet, so I bought that book and listened to the guy's podcast. I liked the simplicity and that I didn't have to buy anything special...actually, it led me to STOP buying all the snacks and junk food.

I am a fairly religious person and I decided there was also a concerning spiritual aspect to all the numbing I was doing with food, so I replaced the snacks with walking and listening to podcasts at work when I needed a reward/break. I work at a beautiful campus and walking does feel like a reward to me.

So during the week, I only eat three meals a day, never have seconds at a meal, avoid all snacks and sweets, and then during the weekend I'm a bit more liberal with my diet to avoid feeling deprived and to keep the habits sustainable. I don't drink during the week, but I do sometimes have a drink or two on weekends.

I walk 10k steps/day (I have a fitbit) and I do a simple weight lifting routine three times a week at home. I really hate lifting weights so it's a quick routine with 15 lb dumbbells that hits all the major functional strength training moves but takes about 20 minutes.

With all that, I lost almost 20 lbs and I'm still going strong about 1.5 years later. It took over a year to lose that much weight and I have stopped losing but have been holding steady for about six months. My cholesterol levels are normal again and my doctor was happy with my weight.

As far as what I eat for the three meals a day, I honestly don't bother myself much about it and eat whatever I feel like making. My husband and I cook for ourselves for 9 out of 10 meals and I figure if I take the trouble to make something from scratch, it's probably healthy enough. So right now, for example, I'm eating a potato soup chowder that I made last night for lunch. But I am pretty conscious of trying to make sure there's fat, protein, carbs and fiber in every meal. I do eat Ezekiel bread a lot because I try to get a lot of fiber in all my meals for digestion and satiety. Satiety is super important to being able to not snack. It's a bit miserable trying to go without eating for six hours in between meals if you aren't intentional about protein and fiber.

So as far as PROTEIN POWDER! The original topic here!

...I actually bought some unflavored whey isolate protein powder two months ago and I put a scoop in my smoothie on weight training days. I have a smoothie every morning for breakfast--I put loads of different stuff in there that all have various purposes and the liquid is water, no juice or plant-based milks. If I put protein and fiber in the smoothie I find it does actually keep me sated until lunch, so I figure it's fine (lots of health gurus say smoothies are terrible, but I reckon that's more about Jamba Juice milkshake-style smoothies rather than what I make).

Anyway I feel pretty good these days! I reckon there must be something true about the glucose spike thing being bad, because my sugar fixes during work used to leave me miserable, and I really don't experience that feeling at all anymore.

Thanks to everyone who weighed in here. Especially the No S diet: that was really perfect for me.

Thanks for the update, and keep up the good work!
I also find that tracking helps me meet my goals; I've also been visualizing the progress I'm looking for.

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Re: Is Protein Powder Helpful to Muscle Building for the Average Person?
« Reply #167 on: October 11, 2024, 03:05:33 PM »
Didn't read this whole thread but my 10,000 foot level 'mule sense' says if you are gaining weight, you already have a calorie surplus.  Adding protein will exacerbate the problem.  You have to either burn more calories, consume fewer, or some combination.  All the nutrition science out there is no match for the laws of Thermodynamics.

NorthernIkigai

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Re: Is Protein Powder Helpful to Muscle Building for the Average Person?
« Reply #168 on: October 12, 2024, 03:54:19 PM »
Didn't read this whole thread but my 10,000 foot level 'mule sense' says if you are gaining weight, you already have a calorie surplus.  Adding protein will exacerbate the problem.  You have to either burn more calories, consume fewer, or some combination.  All the nutrition science out there is no match for the laws of Thermodynamics.

Yes and no. Sure, if one is already eating enough protein for one's needs, the rest will just be stored (as fat, actually). And the vast majority of us eat more than enough protein! (Whereas hardly any of us eat enough fibre or as many different types of it as we should, but not a lot of people seem to worry about that, for some reason.) The whole protein supplement business is a huge advertising scam, in my opinion. I'll start worrying about my own protein intake when I'm some combination of very old (as one doesn't take it up anymore as well then) and not eating enough (a lot of old age stuff can lead to that).

But nutrition is not simply thermodynamics. The reason it's so hard to find definitive answers to many questions within nutrition is partly because everyone is different, and everything changes over time. An apple I eat today will have a different effect than an apple you eat today, or the apples we ate as children or that we will eat when we're old. Hormone levels change, underlying health conditions change, the bacteria in our digestive systems change, etc.

Also, calories are a terrible shorthand for energy in terms of how it's taken up by the body! Eating a serving of whole nuts means that much of the fat won't be digested since we can't process the tiny cells well enough to actually get to the fat, so we'll just poop it out. If you grind the nuts at home, you'll get more of the fat to digest, and if its commercially ground, even more. Still, the labeling on the packed is the same whichever form the nuts come in -- although the effect is very different. Not to mention that 100 calories in nuts has a completely different effect on your digestion and health than 100 calories of apple or beer or potato or candy or whatever. So the whole obligatory calorie labeling that some countries have started doing is pretty awful. It takes away from the important thing (is this food nutritious and will it make me feel good or, alternatively, is this a fun treat) and gives us this weird and entirely wrong illusion that we can somehow calculate our way to health and a healthy weight whatever that may be for us. Food is not simply "macros".

use2betrix

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Re: Is Protein Powder Helpful to Muscle Building for the Average Person?
« Reply #169 on: October 13, 2024, 11:10:08 AM »
@NorthernIkigai - so much to unpack in that information.

If you eat a ton of nuts you don’t just “poop out” what your body doesn’t need. They are stored as fat, as with other forms of excess calories beyond a person’s expenditure.

Fat can also be used as energy, although not as efficiently as carbohydrates.

Not sure where you’ve gathered information that “most” people get enough protein. Most people are overweight (significantly) and significantly lack the modest amount of muscle mass that’s necessary for good general health. I’d argue that most people don’t get enough protein. People that regularly strength train need even more.

 Calories are an important measure in terms of overall energy consumed vs expended in terms of maintaining a healthy body weight. It’s certainly not an end all point for nutrition, but it’s important as part of the overall picture.


NorthernIkigai

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Re: Is Protein Powder Helpful to Muscle Building for the Average Person?
« Reply #170 on: October 13, 2024, 11:57:21 AM »
Yes, you do indeed poop out a lot of the fat contained in the whole nuts, because those cells are never broken down by your digestive system so that fat is never digested to begin with. Hence the big difference between what your body does with whole nuts you chew versus ground nuts. I hope you’re not assuming that everything you eat is taken up by your body (and if you do, have some sweetcorn).

Sure fat can be used as energy (I’m a runner), I don’t think I said anything to suggest it couldn’t. And most of us have plenty of that to use already.

There’s plenty of protein in even vegan food (and most people are not vegans) so unless you eat really really crap and/or not enough, there’s no reason you shouldn’t get enough. Being fat and not having enough muscle is not because of not getting enough protein, it’s because of eating too much overall, not enough good stuff like vegetables, and not moving about enough (note I’m not saying exercise, which is just one way of moving about enough). Extremely few people strength train enough to really need anything more than healthy food. Again, marketing wants us to think otherwise.

Calories are a measure of how much energy is released from a food when it is burned under controlled conditions, nothing more and nothing less. And pretty far fetched from human nutrition.

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Re: Is Protein Powder Helpful to Muscle Building for the Average Person?
« Reply #171 on: October 13, 2024, 12:33:01 PM »
Calories are a measure of how much energy is released from a food when it is burned under controlled conditions, nothing more and nothing less. And pretty far fetched from human nutrition.

Exactly.   The food is burned in a 100% oxygen atmosphere.  That tells you how much energy is in the food, but not much about how your body processes it.   For a lot of applications, it is a "good enough" measure, but it isn't complete. 

The other component of this is measuring calories in is relatively straightforward, but measuring calories out is a lot trickier.   For example, if you go for a big run in the morning are you less active in the afternoon and go to bed a little earlier?