Author Topic: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker  (Read 54110 times)

Kiwi Mustache

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Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« on: March 17, 2015, 05:24:46 PM »
My fianc’e (27) and I (26) have been together for six years. We are engaged and planning a wedding for February 2016.

We get along incredibly well the majority of the time and have similar interests and outlooks on life. We own a house together and have lived together for the last four years. We both live the same sort of frugal lifestyle, enjoy keeping fit and healthy (her swimming and myself hiking and cycling) and prefer a night in rather than going out to bars/pubs etc which a lot of people our age are into.

Three months ago, I booked in for couples counselling as we were starting to get a bit more short tempered towards each other and I/we wanted to get a few things ironed out before we got married.

The critical point for me was that our intimacy has pretty much disappeared completely. Sex has never been a huge part of our relationship (once every 2-3 weeks or so at the beginning, moving onto once every 2 months or so in years 2-4) but for the last year, we have had sex only twice. Whenever I go to hold her in a hug to show I’m happy to see her home after a day at work or go to kiss her, she gets all defensive. I’ve brought this up over and over again at the counselling sessions and it is driving a wedge between us. I’ve read up on “sexless” marriages and it seems to be more common than people think. I just find it really difficult to live with someone who I find incredibly attractive but can’t even kiss her without fear of being rejected and the emotional roller coaster that comes with it. She has said she just isn’t an affectionate person but it is soul destroying when you go to hug or kiss someone and they flat out reject you time after time. I’ve tried not initiating touch but then I went two weeks without a hug, kiss goodnight, etc.

I don’t want to feel like a nagging partner demanding more intimacy but it feels like I’m about to marry a friend not my life partner/lover. The councelling has made these issues arise to the surface, but it seems my fiancée doesn’t even care how much strain it is putting on me/our relationship.

I care for my fiancé deeply but don't want to spend the next 40-50 years sharing my life with someone who I can't share this part of life with. I feel like it is so difficult to split up since we have built a life together, own a house, know each others families, etc but then I find the thought of marrying someone that I can't share all of life with horrible at the same time.

Anyone else been in the same situation? What did you do?


KMMK

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2015, 05:30:23 PM »
Please don't get married. You can possibly continue to be friends but there's no point entering into a marriage that already has such a huge mismatch between the two of you.

caliq

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2015, 05:33:55 PM »
I left my live-in ex (~2.5 yr relationship) the day after he declined an invitation from me standing in only a towel in the living room with the excuse that he was working on leveling his rogue in World of Warcraft.  This was part of an extended period of no/very little sex. 

I would have a serious problem with being denied a hug or a kiss on a regular basis, let alone sex. 

Has this come up in couple's therapy?  I'm a huge supporter of couple's therapy -- it's done wonders for my relationship.

Wupper

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2015, 05:35:47 PM »
Send her flowers anonymously. If she doesn't tell you, she cannot be trusted and should be dumped immediately.

Quince

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2015, 05:44:19 PM »
Is it a deal breaker for you?

It would be for me, barring a medical reason for which my partner is actively seeking help or has been confirmed as beyond treatment.

If you don't want to live the next X years like this and she shows no desire to change once this is discussed plainly, you know what you need to do. Don't stay in a relationship because of inertia.

studentdoc2

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2015, 05:46:21 PM »
What does your fiance say on the matter? Can she express why she isn't interested in physical intimacy? Have the two of you discussed whether her reticence to engage in physical contact is because she doesn't want it to lead to sex (e.g., she doesn't want to participate in a hug or kiss because that could open to door to sex) or whether it is because she just does not want to interact physically in any way? If the former, perhaps agreeing to a period of no sex/no sexual activity (whatever activity she wishes to avoid) would allow you two be able to engage in hugging, goodnight kisses, cuddling, etc. without her feeling "pressure" (real or imagined) to engage in more. Then, perhaps you can explore why she doesn't want more. Some people are asexual -- this could describe her. Or, perhaps she's not enjoying sex for x, y, or z reason.

Furthermore, if she is not interested in/willing to participate in sex but you are, have you two discussed the idea of sexual non-monogamy? For couples with discordant sexual drives, this may allow the sexually motivated partner to seek that outside of the relationship while still maintaining an emotional relationship within the partnership. Of course, you would have to define for yourself what sort of non-monogamy would be comfortable (don't ask/don't tell, no friends, only mutually agreed upon partners, only one-night stands, etc.). Just as there are many companionnate marriage, there are many that don't fall into society's rigid understanding of monogamy -- polyamorous couples/triads/quads, open marriages, non-monogamy, monogamish, swingers, etc.

In any event, I would put the breaks on the wedding planning at the moment. I do believe that you can have a happy, fulfilling companionate marriage (if that's what you want), but I also think that if one of you is unhappy with your sexual intimacy now, that's a problem that will only get worse. Ultimately, you two need to decide if there's a way you can arrange a relationship where you both get what you want/need (either within the relationship or outside of it) -- and if you can't, it may be time to part ways.

Best of luck.

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2015, 05:51:37 PM »
I have been through this as the rejecter. I said most of the things your fiance said, and my partner said most of the things youre saying. During this time, I was on the pill (completely cut my libido), very stressed about work, exhausted every damn night. I had been through the most ill years of my life.  I had my weekends constantly overbooked and had nothing to help me relax. There was no time to just "be" with my partner, so I certainly didn't want to be intimate with him! For me, I can only be intimate when we are also being randomly cuddly during the day/week.

Couples counseling is the best thing you could possibly do. To get through it, we did the following:
Went to separate psychologists. We had started this as things went downhill, but we also went to a couple of sessions with the other person and their psychologist.
I got off the pill. He was very resistant to it, both for possibility of getting pregnant and my periods becoming more painful (the reason I'd gone on it), but I'd started other solutions for periods and we're very good with condoms now!
We started regular no-pressure touching, eg hugs, massages of head/back/feet, just holding each other.
We also improved the crap out of our lives. Cut back weekends to one, maybe two outings. I switched projects and offices at work. He finished his degree and has a temporary job. We spent a lot of time talking about everything and going on walks. It took a lot of effort from him when he felt he was just going to get rejected for everything (he kept doing sweet romantic things) and from me to start doing those things for him.

Reynolds531

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2015, 06:02:33 PM »
Once you're married this is likely to get worse. I spent over a year on the marriagebuilders forum. If you go there, most of them would tell you the prognosis isn't good.

MMMaybe

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2015, 06:03:47 PM »
I have come to realise that there are people in your life that you can deeply connect to on a lot of levels and yet, not be physically attracted to. Is this the case, do you think?

I would not marry this person, at least until you figure out why this is happening. Life throws enough at you over a long marriage and mismatched sex drives just dont bode well for success.

Sid Hoffman

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2015, 06:24:01 PM »
it feels like I’m about to marry a friend not my life partner/lover.
...
but it seems my fiancée doesn’t even care how much strain it is putting on me/our relationship.

I'm coming up on 40 now and have been married and divorced.  I made the mistake of marrying my best friend.  Sparing the details, we really never were truly on the same page as far as being life partners, and we only had sex maybe 50 times in our 8 years together.  I was rejected almost every single time.  I'd say I successfully initiated without being turned away maybe 5 times our entire time together and was rejected probably 100+ times before I gave up.  All the rest were because she decided she was in the mood and that I was adequate to satisfy her need.

The fact that you say your fiancée doesn't seem to care is what concerns me most.  I'll take a moment to suggest the book His Needs, Her Needs.  Everybody has different needs, but for the overwhelming majority of men, sex with a woman is one of the typical man's needs, especially under age 60 or so.  Heck, even my 86-year old grandfather has basically implied he's got an active sex life with his wife still.  So age isn't much of a factor in men, although I know it is often listed as a huge factor in women, as far as their desire level.  I'll let women comment on that, or you can just Google for honest studies on the subject.

Either way, the bottom line is that the real scary part of what you said is that your fiancée doesn't seem to care about something you care about.  It doesn't matter what the subject is, to be honest.  Suppose you cared greatly about always cooking eggs thoroughly as opposed to leaving them raw or runny.  If it's important to you, it should be important to your spouse.  The object is truly for two to become one.  You should be compatible enough that you care about certain things not because your brain tells you to care about them, but because your heart tells you to care about them on the basis of its importance to your spouse.  I'm not going to call your fiancée heartless towards you, but see if you can step back and see what other areas you may have sacrificed or found that she simply doesn't care about even if it matters to you.

I agree 1000% with the statement above to not get married just because there's inertia.  I think that was part of what I did wrong and let me tell you, it's far, far worse to have a marriage end after many years than to break up with a BF/GF or call off a wedding before it happens.  Don't let inertia drive your decision.  You need to decide what's right based on what's truly right, not just because you know this person better than anyone else and co-own a house with them.

RootofGood

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2015, 06:49:37 PM »
Deal breaker.  I wouldn't go through with it unless counseling led to some miraculous breakthrough. 

I think the average couple gets it on like 2.2x per week or something.  OP, you're at 0.04x per week.  Maybe somewhere in between .04x and 2.2x works for both of you. 

okonumiyaki

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2015, 06:59:39 PM »
I left my live-in ex (~2.5 yr relationship) the day after he declined an invitation from me standing in only a towel in the living room with the excuse that he was working on leveling his rogue in World of Warcraft.  This was part of an extended period of no/very little sex. 

I would have a serious problem with being denied a hug or a kiss on a regular basis, let alone sex. 

Has this come up in couple's therapy?  I'm a huge supporter of couple's therapy -- it's done wonders for my relationship.

Too right.  A rogue is a terrible class. 

caliq

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2015, 07:05:36 PM »
I left my live-in ex (~2.5 yr relationship) the day after he declined an invitation from me standing in only a towel in the living room with the excuse that he was working on leveling his rogue in World of Warcraft.  This was part of an extended period of no/very little sex. 

I would have a serious problem with being denied a hug or a kiss on a regular basis, let alone sex. 

Has this come up in couple's therapy?  I'm a huge supporter of couple's therapy -- it's done wonders for my relationship.

Too right.  A rogue is a terrible class.

And it was level 11! We're not talking about an expansion and needing to get back up to max level or anything ;(  It was his only class not at 80...(or 85? don't remember...)

/sorry for thread derail OP please seek serious help with this serious issue

lise

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2015, 07:09:03 PM »


For me, it's a deal breaker, and it sounds like it is for you, otherwise you wouldn't of started a thread ...
 


midweststache

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2015, 07:21:08 PM »
A lot of people are saying deal-breaker, but you have to figure out if its a deal-breaker for you. Is sexual intimacy important to you in a partnership? What does sexual intimacy look like for you and for your partner (perhaps the kind of sexual intimacy you both desire differs)? If the relationship goes without sexual intimacy, is it worth severing the relationship?

1. See a sex-positive counselor/therapist.
2. Read/listen to Dan Savage, who has a lot to say on sexual give and take in relationships and is, surprisingly, fairly conservative in his views on relationships (although not sex, obviously). While I've stopped listening over the years, I felt 99% of his advice was solid.

I will say as a woman her in 20s, my libido comes and goes for large swaths at a time--and when I'm on contraceptives, it mostly goes. I find at these times I don't feel very sexual; this is not a reflection on my partner's appeal, but a reflection on my perception of my self and my self-worth. I can understand that feeling like a friend rather than a partner, but your fiancee may be finding intimacy via nonsexual avenues, and think you are also satisfied with the relationship as such.

My partner and I have worked through these issues through explicit conversation about our sexual needs and desire (not always the most comfortable thing to do, even with your partner--think lots of "I" statements) and through a lot of give and take *ba du cha!*

A (again, sex-positive) counselor will certainly help facilitate working through much of this.

mozar

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2015, 07:26:22 PM »
I left my last relationship partly because of a soul crushing lack of intimacy. It felt terrible and I'm a woman with an average libido. Some counseling by yourself might help.

Spondulix

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2015, 07:51:05 PM »
If you like your marriage counselor, ask him/her for an individual session with you (maybe your fiancé will want to also) and get all of this off your chest. When you're meeting with a counselor as a couple, they sometimes have to fill in the puzzle pieces of what's really going on. I'm guessing you're not saying totally openly in therapy that you have doubts about lifetime intimacy, right? (otherwise you wouldn't be here asking all of us on a financial forum.) Most people probably have doubts about getting married, and people tend to just want to show excitement about it (which makes it hard to talk about)... add intimacy issues on top of it - it's not like you want to go talk to your mom about it. Individual therapy could actually be really, really good for you right now. The stress will only get worse.

Can I point out though... there's an irony that you're looking for intimacy but sharing that intimacy with a group of strangers (who know little to nothing about you or your situation, and many who give really awful relationship advice). I get it - it's a touchy topic. But, sometimes intimacy issues aren't about our partner opening up to us - it's about us opening up to our partner.

randymarsh

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2015, 07:51:31 PM »
The lack of sex is one thing. But not even wanting to be hugged/kissed is another. Something is up and it sounds like she isn't being honest with you. I'd give it some time and thought but if keeps up, that'd be a deal breaker for me.

I would never marry someone who A. Doesn't want me to touch them B. Won't tell me why they don't want me to touch them.

catccc

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2015, 08:01:32 PM »
I think this is a deal breaker.

It's one thing to not be interested in sex/have a low libido, but it's another to get defensive over an attempt at a hug.

And just because sexless marriages are more common than one might think doesn't make them okay.  It's common for american households to have consumer debt.  Doesn't mean you should too.

I'm sorry that you have gotten this far with the relationship only to have it fall apart now.  It's possible that she could change, but she has to be willing to work at it, and I think she has to work enough at it to meet your needs, or the relationship isn't going to work in the long run.  Does she know that this is important to you? 

My husband is a very tactile person and physical intimacy is important to him.  It's less important to me, but I am happy to meet his needs because he meets mine.  (Have you heard of 5 love languages?  DH is definitely physical touch, and mine is acts of service.  We both like words of affirmation, but they don't do as much as our "primary" languages do for us...  For the record, you don't need to run out and read the book, just understand that people have differ in their preferred ways to give and receive love, and the author boils it down to 5 basic languages.)

Since you are already in some type of counseling, has this been brought up?  I agree with another response about having an individual session with the counselor if it hasn't been brought up in your sessions together.


MoneyCat

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2015, 08:03:59 PM »
Intimacy is probably the most important thing there is in a romantic relationship.  I would look into the counseling and see if that works.  If not, then you shouldn't marry her.  Marrying your best friend is a wonderful thing.  I'm married to my best friend.  However, there is very little point to being married if you can't share every part of yourself with the other person.  The physical side of marriage is extremely important.  If she is completely unwilling to love you physically, then maybe she'd be better off with a cat and a sewing group.

englyn

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2015, 08:55:42 PM »
If you want a relationship with intimacy in it, then you want a relationship with intimacy in it. Could this become one? Maybe it depends on the cause.

1) Is she asexual (by nature)? Do some reading on the internet about asexuality and think about the different kinds of relationship definitions that exist, maybe some of them will appeal to both of you. It doesn't have to be married-couple-or-nothing. If she is asexual and hasn't heard of the term, she may be defensive and thinking there is something wrong with her, so take that into account. Asexual people aren't 'broken'.
2) Is she asexual (by circumstance)? Stress, exhaustion, hormones, health conditions, or previous trauma can kill a sex drive. Is she willing to see a GP and/or individual counsellor to get to the bottom of it? Are you willing to give her the space to do so, and/or rearrange your lifestyle to support her health?
3) Is there a rift in the relationship that is causing this? I've just come out of a marriage during which I had a low libido, and thought that was just how I am, or maybe just overfamiliarity in a long term relationship. Since I left, holy cow, it's a different story. Apparently I'm just not interested if I've been condescended to and/or snapped at in the last couple of days. I hope counselling will help sort this question out for you.

The worrying bit is if she truly doesn't care. That points to one of three things - either you are not meeting her needs (read marriagebuilders, go to counselling and do a lot of listening); she genuinely feels that she cannot do anything about it (eg asexuality); or she is no longer invested enough in the relationship to care about your needs, and has yet to admit it, perhaps even to herself. There's a strong chance she hasn't figured out which one herself yet. Can you treat her with compassion while you figure it out together?

FiguringItOut

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2015, 09:13:16 PM »
I married someone like that.  We had sex every other week when we dated.  Once we moved in together, instead of going up, it quickly went down to once a month and was never satisfactory for me. 

This was an issues we were fighting early on, with hopes of this getting better (stupid me) we go married.  It quickly declined further to once every 2-2.5 months.  Most of my advances were rejected by him.  I've had enough when 12 years into the marriage I spent 4 months trying to get him to put out.  He came up with every single excuse there is from "lots of work" to "headache" to "need to mow the lawn tomorrow morning".  That was truly the beginning of the end for us. 

Add to this the fact that there were always money issues with crazy spending, and I was done.  Just done.

Just to give a bit of perspective, once i decided to get divorced, I completely took over all finances, put him on allowance, opened a separate bank account where I was stashing every penny I could (he knew about the account, but had no access to it as it was in my name only).  In 12 years that we were married we've never had any savings.  Nothing.  Only credit card debt and nearly zero checking account balance.

I spend 6 months digging us out of the $6K credit card debt and once we were at zero, saving everything I could in the separate bank account.  January 2014 we had $3K in there.  Today there is a balance of $45,700.  I think I can get another $10K in there before I move out in July.  This money will be split between us, but $25K will give me a start to be able to rent an apartment for myself and kids and have a small emergency fund so that I can sleep at night. 

I can't wait for this divorce to be over and for me to be able to start fresh. 

lizzzi

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2015, 09:24:36 PM »
Deal breaker. I've been married for 40 years ( two 20-year marriages), and could not even imagine a husband who was  seldom if ever sensual  and who did not care. I'm not saying you have to be swinging off the chandeliers all the time, but those cosy, warm moments.. that can lead to those toe-tingling, behind-closed-door moments…that lead you to going to work the next morning with a smile on your face…are part of what makes a great marriage. Or even a good marriage.  Or even an okay marriage. If there's no physical sizzle going on, and the partner doesn't care about that, I would just be good friends, but not get married. And of course there will be those times when one or the other is sick, or exhausted, or has a broken leg or something. Those are just real life issues, and caring partners will be understanding about that…take a raincheck for awhile, if necessary.

frugaldrummer

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2015, 09:30:31 PM »
DEAL BREAKER!!!  RUN!  This is the time in a relationship when you should be all over each other. If she doesn't even seem motivated to change, this will only get worse.

I was with my ex husband for 26 years and we had sex 2-3 times a week throughout that whole time. And that was despite me having thyroid disease and him suffering from depression. It's not the only thing that matters in a marriage, but it's pretty darn important. Don't go through life starving to death. Find someone who is a better match.

sartorius

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2015, 09:39:46 PM »
Please do not marry your fiancé. This happened to my partner exactly the same as you described. He did marry her and suffered years of unhappiness, eventually developing depression and becoming suicidal. It ended in a terribly messy divorce with kids. Years on and he still suffers. Marrying the wrong person can ruin your life. You need hugs, and you will go crazy. Check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

Intimacy, love, touching, kissing, are human needs. You'll starve of affection, and possibly seek it elsewhere - and then when you're caught, it'll be your fault! Not fair.

You deserve more and you will find her.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 09:45:25 PM by sartorius »

sartorius

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2015, 09:46:55 PM »
I spend 6 months digging us out of the $6K credit card debt and once we were at zero, saving everything I could in the separate bank account.  January 2014 we had $3K in there.  Today there is a balance of $45,700.  I think I can get another $10K in there before I move out in July.  This money will be split between us, but $25K will give me a start to be able to rent an apartment for myself and kids and have a small emergency fund so that I can sleep at night. 

I can't wait for this divorce to be over and for me to be able to start fresh.

Good luck. That is an incredible achievement. Congratulations.

FiguringItOut

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2015, 09:53:58 PM »
I spend 6 months digging us out of the $6K credit card debt and once we were at zero, saving everything I could in the separate bank account.  January 2014 we had $3K in there.  Today there is a balance of $45,700.  I think I can get another $10K in there before I move out in July.  This money will be split between us, but $25K will give me a start to be able to rent an apartment for myself and kids and have a small emergency fund so that I can sleep at night. 

I can't wait for this divorce to be over and for me to be able to start fresh.

Good luck. That is an incredible achievement. Congratulations.

Thank you!  I'll be honest, I often log into that account and just stare at the balance there.  Just thinking what a bit of restrain and frugality would've done over all these years brings tears to my eyes.  But that is all behind me and I am moving on. 

Cressida

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2015, 10:11:32 PM »
I spend 6 months digging us out of the $6K credit card debt and once we were at zero, saving everything I could in the separate bank account.  January 2014 we had $3K in there.  Today there is a balance of $45,700.  I think I can get another $10K in there before I move out in July.  This money will be split between us, but $25K will give me a start to be able to rent an apartment for myself and kids and have a small emergency fund so that I can sleep at night. 

I can't wait for this divorce to be over and for me to be able to start fresh.

Good luck. That is an incredible achievement. Congratulations.

+1

kathrynd

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2015, 11:05:46 PM »
I spend 6 months digging us out of the $6K credit card debt and once we were at zero, saving everything I could in the separate bank account.  January 2014 we had $3K in there.  Today there is a balance of $45,700.  I think I can get another $10K in there before I move out in July.  This money will be split between us, but $25K will give me a start to be able to rent an apartment for myself and kids and have a small emergency fund so that I can sleep at night. 

I can't wait for this divorce to be over and for me to be able to start fresh.

Good luck. That is an incredible achievement. Congratulations.

Thank you!  I'll be honest, I often log into that account and just stare at the balance there.  Just thinking what a bit of restrain and frugality would've done over all these years brings tears to my eyes.  But that is all behind me and I am moving on.


That's great.
Curious,...does your husband know you are planning on divorcing him, in July?
Has it changed your intimate relationship with him.

For the OP...
Have your g/f go to her GP, and have a physical reason ruled out.
Maybe sex is painful? Does she have infections?
Hormones, thyroid, depression could be playing havoc with her.

As others have mentioned, she may be pulling away from your kisses, because she feels it always leads to sex.
How is your personal relationship. Is she angry with you?
Are you always nagging  her? Does she say you are always trying to control her.
Have you ever hit her, push her, caledl her degrading names etc?

How about you?
Has your physical appearance changed?
Rotten teeth, bad breath, gained a lot of weight...not showering enough?

Was there  sexual abuse in her childhood?

Maybe she is having second thoughts about getting married?



MBot

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2015, 11:40:05 PM »
I have been through this as the rejecter. I said most of the things your fiance said, and my partner said most of the things youre saying. During this time, I was on the pill (completely cut my libido), very stressed about work, exhausted every damn night. I had been through the most ill years of my life.  I had my weekends constantly overbooked and had nothing to help me relax. There was no time to just "be" with my partner, so I certainly didn't want to be intimate with him! For me, I can only be intimate when we are also being randomly cuddly during the day/week.

Couples counseling is the best thing you could possibly do. To get through it, we did the following:
Went to separate psychologists. We had started this as things went downhill, but we also went to a couple of sessions with the other person and their psychologist.
I got off the pill. He was very resistant to it, both for possibility of getting pregnant and my periods becoming more painful (the reason I'd gone on it), but I'd started other solutions for periods and we're very good with condoms now!
We started regular no-pressure touching, eg hugs, massages of head/back/feet, just holding each other.
We also improved the crap out of our lives. Cut back weekends to one, maybe two outings. I switched projects and offices at work. He finished his degree and has a temporary job. We spent a lot of time talking about everything and going on walks. It took a lot of effort from him when he felt he was just going to get rejected for everything (he kept doing sweet romantic things) and from me to start doing those things for him.

+1

sol

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2015, 11:53:40 PM »
I don't think anybody should get married if they aren't sure they doing the right thing.  Sounds like you're not sure, so my advice is to not get married.

ryanthequark

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2015, 12:54:49 AM »
Just a quick reply: read some Dan Savage, or listen to his podcast.

ryanthequark

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2015, 12:55:31 AM »
It'll help, I swear. And oh: good luck to you.

marty998

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #33 on: March 18, 2015, 01:12:28 AM »
A relationship without intimacy sounds like a business transaction.

Was there sexual abuse in her childhood?

Sometimes that one has no solution. Some poor victims feel tormented for their entire lives.

I don't blame them, can only imagine that it is a truly harrowing experience.

libertarian4321

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #34 on: March 18, 2015, 01:28:45 AM »
I left my live-in ex (~2.5 yr relationship) the day after he declined an invitation from me standing in only a towel in the living room with the excuse that he was working on leveling his rogue in World of Warcraft.

This is a simple misunderstanding.

"I'm leveling up my rogue in WOW" is just the way we guys say "can you give me oral while I'm leveling up my rogue in WOW?"

If you really want to rock his world, bring him a beer (make sure you open it first), then give him oral while he plays WOW.

If you want to qualify for "girlfriend of the year," bring him a beer, and a sandwich, then give him oral while he plays WOW.  You might want to have "Sports Center" playing in the back ground for ambiance.

To qualify for Goddess status, bring him a beer, and a sandwich, then call a female friend and you and the friend give him oral while he plays WOW.  Have sports center playing in the background.

Then again, maybe the guy is just gay (not that there's anything wrong with that).

And for those who may be wondering.  Yes, I did learn all of this from watching old episodes of "Seinfeld."
« Last Edit: March 18, 2015, 01:33:28 AM by libertarian4321 »

marty998

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #35 on: March 18, 2015, 02:42:35 AM »
I left my live-in ex (~2.5 yr relationship) the day after he declined an invitation from me standing in only a towel in the living room with the excuse that he was working on leveling his rogue in World of Warcraft.

Hi there,

I got the hint, come round to my place ;)

Yours truly,
interested

.....

(hehe, sorry for that).

gooki

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #36 on: March 18, 2015, 02:44:28 AM »
From my experience, she's being cold and wants out of the relationship, but doesn't have the balls to end it.

Do yourself and her a favour, and move relationship to a friendship.

Luckyvik

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #37 on: March 18, 2015, 03:32:10 AM »
I couldn't be with someone that doesn't want to hug or kiss  at least. I love hugs! I say see a councelor on your own and see if you can make a decision but if she doesn't care that it's affecting you it doesn't sound good.


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Merrie

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #38 on: March 18, 2015, 05:00:55 AM »
I would put the wedding on pause while you investigate this. It may be fixable but it may not. If you are not happy now it is not going to magically get better. I know it's hard to think about facing your family and friends and saying you changed your mind, but IME anybody whose opinion is actually worth anything will support you for making the right decision for you and wanting to do what makes you happy.

Giro

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #39 on: March 18, 2015, 05:50:39 AM »
agree with most everyone else.  I am all about the importance of compatible sex drives.  I told my SO early on that I enjoyed intimacy 5x or more per week and I would expect that from him forever.  We have been married for several years now and it hasn't declined.  Occasionally we have a bad week, but I remind him that intimacy is very important to me and he obliges.   


electriceagle

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #40 on: March 18, 2015, 06:14:31 AM »
If you don't feel confident that you are going to be happy in this marriage, don't get into it.

Go to counseling. Others have described some of the medical and psychological reasons that your girlfriend may not want to have sex. Use counseling to investigate those medical and psychological causes. If you can find and solve them, that's great!

If you can't solve the problems that are identified, don't get married because of inertia, or because you don't want to face up to the possibility of breaking up. You're not going her any favors if you carry on with a relationship simply because you don't want to go through ending it, or don't want to deal with being single.

If counseling brings up problems that can't be solved, don't marry her because you feel sorry for her or don't want to be seen as punishing her. You're not going to hold your breath for the rest of your life, so you'd only be upgrading from a breakup to a divorce.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2015, 06:17:22 AM by electriceagle »

FiguringItOut

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #41 on: March 18, 2015, 09:11:07 AM »
I spend 6 months digging us out of the $6K credit card debt and once we were at zero, saving everything I could in the separate bank account.  January 2014 we had $3K in there.  Today there is a balance of $45,700.  I think I can get another $10K in there before I move out in July.  This money will be split between us, but $25K will give me a start to be able to rent an apartment for myself and kids and have a small emergency fund so that I can sleep at night. 

I can't wait for this divorce to be over and for me to be able to start fresh.

Good luck. That is an incredible achievement. Congratulations.

Thank you!  I'll be honest, I often log into that account and just stare at the balance there.  Just thinking what a bit of restrain and frugality would've done over all these years brings tears to my eyes.  But that is all behind me and I am moving on.


That's great.
Curious,...does your husband know you are planning on divorcing him, in July?
Has it changed your intimate relationship with him.


Yes he knows.  The only reason I stayed a year longer is to save some money so that I can move out and provide for the kids.  We are in divorce mediation right now. 

The intimacy was never really there in a sexual sense.  For many years we were very close, lots of touching, kissing, etc, but no sex.  He has almost non existend sex drive with practically no regards to my enjoyment of the process.  I moved out of the bedroom two years ago and will be moving out of the house this July once school is over. 

I can't wait!

Bob W

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #42 on: March 18, 2015, 09:25:06 AM »
The vows generally include "to have and to hold" and I think have refers to sex.

According to Willard Harley, (His Needs, Her Needs)  Sex is the number one thing that men desire in a relationship.   I have seen bat shit crazy relationships that survive with sex.   

So yeah,  this deal is already a nonstarter.   Couples counseling won't fix this unless the counselor is well trained in the Harley school. 


That said splitting up is difficult and scary.  Good luck my friend. 

yyc-phil

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #43 on: March 18, 2015, 09:47:42 AM »
There is much more than sex in a relationship based on love. Personally, I think sex is over-rated, and if I were in a sexless marriage, and as long as I knew that my wife loved me, I would still chose my wife without the sex and I would still be happy, because my wife is the most wonderful, kind, simple, gentle, loving, caring and attractive woman I ever met and I am 100 % sure the lack or absence of sex would not be a reason to leave her.

FiguringItOut

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #44 on: March 18, 2015, 10:13:18 AM »
There is much more than sex in a relationship based on love. Personally, I think sex is over-rated, and if I were in a sexless marriage, and as long as I knew that my wife loved me, I would still chose my wife without the sex and I would still be happy, because my wife is the most wonderful, kind, simple, gentle, loving, caring and attractive woman I ever met and I am 100 % sure the lack or absence of sex would not be a reason to leave her.

Sorry to say, but sex is only overrated to those who do not desire sex.  To those who do desire sex, it is anything but overrated.

It's been said that when sex is good (good as in both partners are happy and satisfied with status quo whatever that may be), it is 10% of the relationship.  But when sex is bad, it is 90% of the relationship. 

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #45 on: March 18, 2015, 10:28:31 AM »
I couldn't handle that unless there was a good reason. Have you had a straight-up conversation about it?

benjenn

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #46 on: March 18, 2015, 10:55:25 AM »
I think there are plenty of opportunities for intimacy in a relationship that do not involve sex but, having experienced a relationship (thank God not a marriage!) without intimacy (physical or otherwise), I know that I couldn't handle it.  I kept asking myself if it was enough to end the relationship over because everything else was good -- we got along well, the kids liked him, we were financially compatible (before I was MMM-exposed anyway), we had fun together.  But I decided then that yes, it was enough to break up over because there is nothing as meaningful between two people as true intimacy - including physical intimacy.  To be desired, to desire, to share something so personal... that's a true expression of love.  To be missing that is no way to live.  Might as well live alone.

CheapskateWife

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #47 on: March 18, 2015, 11:06:01 AM »
So sorry that you are dealing with this Kiwi.  I think you got good advice with the poster who suggested you postpone the nuptuals.  You and proposed DW have some stuff to figure out and cancelling a wedding is much easier than a divorce would be. 

I'll tell you what my momma told me (imagine a bit of Texas twang) "Darlin, just because you love him, doesn't mean you can live with him forever."

MsPeacock

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #48 on: March 18, 2015, 11:14:42 AM »
I would say - don't get married unless you can resolve this problem to your satisfaction. Problems are unlikely to spontaneously improve just because you've had a wedding. In fact, if anything, the opposite seems to happen. So try counseling, or a medical check-up, or whatever to try to get things to a happier place. If she is unwilling to do it - don't marry. If that is not possible - don't marry.

Something like 30% of marriages are sexless - meaning intercourse happens less than 10x a year. So, given your current sexless status I would expect that you would be highly likely to join that statistics unless these problems are resolved before marriage.

DoubleDown

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Re: Is No Intimacy in a Relationship a Deal Breaker
« Reply #49 on: March 18, 2015, 11:16:33 AM »
Yes, it is a complete deal breaker*

* Unless both parties are completely satisfied with that arrangement, which you (very legitimately, I might add) are not.