Author Topic: Is iPhone Ownership Antithetical to FI?  (Read 8284 times)

Jamesqf

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Is iPhone Ownership Antithetical to FI?
« on: August 05, 2012, 11:43:29 PM »
Just thought I'd ask.  It seems to go along with the home ownership question, as lots of people spend considerable money on iPhones and service plans, when they could get by with a cheap pay-as-you-go phone.

arebelspy

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Re: Is iPhone Ownership Antithetical to FI?
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2012, 01:24:03 AM »
Ugh.  Are we going to have a million of these topics?

To answer all the "Is ____ anti-Mustachian or antithetical to FI?" questions:

Any non-deliberate, wasteful spending is anti-Mustachian and antithetical to FI.

Conscious, deliberate spending is not necessarily so.
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Richard3

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Re: Is iPhone Ownership Antithetical to FI?
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2012, 08:24:30 AM »
Yes.

Spending money on any thing or activity that isn't strictly necessary for physical survival is antithetical to FI and anyone who does it should be sent to a frugality education camp immediately. :)


nevinera

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Re: Is iPhone Ownership Antithetical to FI?
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2012, 11:07:20 AM »
>sent to a frugality education camp immediately

Is that free?

bdub

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Re: Is iPhone Ownership Antithetical to FI?
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2012, 11:33:07 AM »
>sent to a frugality education camp immediately

Is that free?

Can I ride my bike there or do i have to *gasp* drive my car?

smedleyb

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Re: Is iPhone Ownership Antithetical to FI?
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2012, 03:47:24 PM »
I've seen the light.

Just swapped my smart phone for a courier pigeon. 

MrSaturday

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Re: Is iPhone Ownership Antithetical to FI?
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2012, 05:33:20 PM »
I've seen the light.

Just swapped my smart phone for a courier pigeon.

You're all set to save a bundle on internet as well.

ducknalddon

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Re: Is iPhone Ownership Antithetical to FI?
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2012, 05:35:44 AM »
I've seen the light.

Just swapped my smart phone for a courier pigeon.

Well if it's good enough for Google http://www.google.com/onceuponatime/technology/pigeonrank.html ...

Richard3

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Re: Is iPhone Ownership Antithetical to FI?
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2012, 05:49:34 AM »
 
Quote
   >>sent to a frugality education camp immediately

>  Is that free?


Can I ride my bike there or do i have to *gasp* drive my car?

You have to ride a bike obtained through freecycle and there will be a nightly all you can eat dumpster buffet :)

Perpetual_Student

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Re: Is iPhone Ownership Antithetical to FI?
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2012, 01:45:54 PM »
Oh god you're right it is.  I just sold my phone on the street because I canceled my internet and sold my computer. 

I'm posting from a library, but I don't need to do that anymore because I found a blanket in a dumpster and will be sending smoke signals using the steam from the restaurant next door!  Cheaper than pigeons, which you have to pay to feed.  Now PIGEONS, THOSE are antimustachian!  Pigeon feed...do you think money grows on TREES?!

grantmeaname

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Re: Is iPhone Ownership Antithetical to FI?
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2012, 01:51:50 PM »
I'm beginning to suspect some of you are not entirely serious! Are you making a mockery of this great institution?

champion

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Re: Is iPhone Ownership Antithetical to FI?
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2012, 01:51:08 AM »
By the way, the answer is YES!  IPhone ownership is very expensive!!!  Not worth it!  Sucks your money and sucks your valuable time.  One reason Apple is worth so much on the stock market is based on what a bad deal the iPhone is for consumers.  (Apple sells the phone for less than its worth, but then gets paid every month by the carrier.) 

"Now consider that over two years if you buy the phone from AT&T it breaks down like this:

$199 up front for the iPhone 4S

$39.99/mo for base 450 minute service
$30.00/mo for 3gb of data
$20.00/mo for unlimited text messages
======
$89.99/mo * 24 months = $2,159.76 + $199 = $2,358.76 over two years"

Clearly not worth it.

gooki

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Re: Is iPhone Ownership Antithetical to FI?
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2012, 02:33:55 AM »
But what if you buy one used for $500 and spend just $50 per year on calls and data?

Daley

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Re: Is iPhone Ownership Antithetical to FI?
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2012, 04:34:05 AM »
Clearly not worth it.

I've posted it once before, might as well do it again just for the laughs.

But what if you buy one used for $500 and spend just $50 per year on calls and data?

Better, but when you gut out so much of the pay services that makes the iPhone so "special" as a platform, why bother at all when a refurbished $170 iPod Touch and a $10 feature phone can pretty well do the same things outside of being the same device?

gooki

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Re: Is iPhone Ownership Antithetical to FI?
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2012, 05:20:12 AM »
For me? Because the cameras on the iPod touch are crap. I really enjoy having a half decent camera phone on hand when I'm out with my little girl.

arebelspy

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Re: Is iPhone Ownership Antithetical to FI?
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2012, 09:49:28 AM »
Meh.  I love my iPhone 4S.  Considering the wife and I have a savings rate of about 70-75% on teacher's salaries, I don't feel bad splurging in a few areas that are important to me.

Again, this:
Quote
Any non-deliberate, wasteful spending is anti-Mustachian and antithetical to FI.

Conscious, deliberate spending is not necessarily so.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

Jamesqf

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Re: Is iPhone Ownership Antithetical to FI?
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2012, 12:25:33 PM »
For me? Because the cameras on the iPod touch are crap. I really enjoy having a half decent camera phone on hand when I'm out with my little girl.

Maybe a silly question, but why not just get a decent camera?

Same argument applies to most of the other functions, too.  Seems like anything actually useful that the iPhone does can be done better and cheaper by some other device, which you probably have anyway.

James

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Re: Is iPhone Ownership Antithetical to FI?
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2012, 12:26:47 PM »
Meh.  I love my iPhone 4S.  Considering the wife and I have a savings rate of about 70-75% on teacher's salaries, I don't feel bad splurging in a few areas that are important to me.

Again, this:
Quote
Any non-deliberate, wasteful spending is anti-Mustachian and antithetical to FI.

Conscious, deliberate spending is not necessarily so.


I agree, and am greatly looking forward to upgrading to the new iphone next month.  We've had our current iphones for over 2 years, phone and plan is less than 1% of our income, for us it is conscious, deliberate, and worth it.  Obviously the same can't be said for many (or even most) people, but I'm comfortable with this obvious splurge in our lifestyle.

gooki

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Re: Is iPhone Ownership Antithetical to FI?
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2012, 04:27:47 PM »
Maybe a silly question, but why not just get a decent camera?

Same argument applies to most of the other functions, too.  Seems like anything actually useful that the iPhone does can be done better and cheaper by some other device, which you probably have anyway.

I'm just arguing for the fun of it. My reality is when I'm going to the park or for a quick trip to the beach having most of what I need in one device means I'm more likely to actually take it with me and use it.

Lets say one does actually use a phone, and music player and a camera. And lets assume you're after half decent equipment the cost break down for individual items is:

$100 phone
$200 camera
$100 music player

Total $400 vs my iPhone 4s that cost $500 outright, the convenience of everything in one device is worth the extra $100 for me. The nice thing is a purchase like this come out of my personal fun money account, and not out of our savings, or bill paying accounts.

If I was to buy one new, on a 24 month plan, at a total cost of around $2,000 it sure as hell isn't worth an extra $1600 for me.

Jamesqf

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Re: Is iPhone Ownership Antithetical to FI?
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2012, 04:38:29 PM »
Lets say one does actually use a phone, and music player and a camera. And lets assume you're after half decent equipment the cost break down for individual items is:

$100 phone
$200 camera
$100 music player

Total $400 vs my iPhone 4s that cost $500 outright, the convenience of everything in one device is worth the extra $100 for me.

I think your figures are off.  For me, it's more like

  $40 phone
  $140 camera
  $100 music player

The real savings comes in the ongoing cost of service plans.  With pay-as-you-go, mine runs about $10/month.  (Not to mention that the phone is also supposed to work as a music player, though I've never gotten around to figuring out just how to do it.)  There's also the fact that I had the camera & music player before the phone (and probably since before there was an iPhone), so the incremental cost was only the $40 for the phone.

Also all the on-line stuff I could imagine wanting to do is done better with the computer, which I can also use to develop e.g. seismic tomography programs :-)

champion

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Re: Is iPhone Ownership Antithetical to FI?
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2012, 12:17:04 PM »

If you must do it, it looks like you can save a bunch by buying the phone for full price and then paying as you go.  This is a new offering, but it does reveal how much the subscription model adds to the cost


Sprint Violates AT&T's Virginity
   

Here it comes AT&T and Verizon....


Virgin Mobile USA, a prepaid brand of Sprint (S:  2.74, +0.02, +0.74%), on Thursday announced it will offer the Apple (AAPL: 571.72,  +0.26, +0.05%) iPhone on a no-contract basis to customers starting on  June 29, but you may want to think twice before jumping ship from your current  carrier if you're already an iPhone owner.

The "garf" is that you're going to have to pay cash for the phone -- in this case, $549 or $649, depending on the model you want.  No subsidy.

But.... the plan is $35/month for 300 minutes of voice and unlimited text and data.

Now consider that over two years if you buy the phone from AT&T it breaks down like this:

$199 up front for the iPhone 4S

$39.99/mo for base 450 minute service
$30.00/mo for 3gb of data
$20.00/mo for unlimited text messages
======
$89.99/mo * 24 months = $2,159.76 + $199 = $2,358.76 over two years

Now on Virgin, it's $649 up front and then $35/month * 24 months, or $1,489.00 over two years.

Want to pay an extra $869 plus additional taxes and fees on the AT&T service that are billed separately but not on Virgin, which simply charges sales tax (this can easily be $200 or more over those two years.)

Go right ahead.

For everyone else just tell AT&T and Verizon to***** off.

Disclosure: The author has a speculative position in Sprint (S)

arebelspy

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Re: Is iPhone Ownership Antithetical to FI?
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2012, 01:23:09 PM »
the plan is $35/month for 300 minutes of voice and unlimited text and data.

That's appealing.

Anyone have info on Virgin's unlimited?  Do they throttle you after a certain amount, or drop you if you use too much?  Or is it truly unlimited, like Sprint's?

I pay quite a bit more than that with Sprint ($50/mo.), but it's absolutely unlimited.  I use 25-30gb/mo, and have for the last 3 years, with no issues.  I'd love to save a bit, but don't want to be cut off when I go way past some 2gb or 5gb cap.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

ak404

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Re: Is iPhone Ownership Antithetical to FI?
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2012, 01:26:47 AM »
The Virgin pay-as-you-go option is fairly interesting.

Now I find myself wondering how much I can sell this Verizon iPhone for...

Daley

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Re: Is iPhone Ownership Antithetical to FI?
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2012, 12:33:35 PM »
the plan is $35/month for 300 minutes of voice and unlimited text and data.

That's appealing.

Anyone have info on Virgin's unlimited?  Do they throttle you after a certain amount, or drop you if you use too much?  Or is it truly unlimited, like Sprint's?

I pay quite a bit more than that with Sprint ($50/mo.), but it's absolutely unlimited.  I use 25-30gb/mo, and have for the last 3 years, with no issues.  I'd love to save a bit, but don't want to be cut off when I go way past some 2gb or 5gb cap.

Knowing what I know about your data usage and internet access, I wouldn't recommend the shift. Here's the catches you'll be dealing with:
  • Download speeds cap at 256Kbps (or lower) after 2.5GB of data, and there's a strict no tethering with termination policy.
  • Tethering is only permitted with a tiny selection of $300+ phones (EVO V, iPhone 4, iPhone 4S).
  • It costs an extra $15 a month to enable tethering on supported phones, but the data cap is increased to 3.5GB before throttling.
  • Similar traffic usage restrictions are in place as is on StraightTalk with data usage, just not quite as draconian.
  • Virgin still reserves the right to terminate any undefined excessive use on "unlimited" plans without warning.
Their Broadband2Go plans aren't as restrictive on the data accessed and cap at 2-5GB depending on the plan, and they claim "unlimited" 4G with supported devices in the right markets, but they still have that 256Kbps or lower throttling clause for "heavy users" and the price per month is still worse than most landline ISPs.

I'm telling you man, cell phone data is expensive. Knowing Sprint's terms and conditions and your average data usage per month since you're hotspotting for your home internet, I'm honestly surprised they haven't taken the spurs to you yet.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 12:38:09 PM by I.P. Daley »

Jamesqf

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Re: Is iPhone Ownership Antithetical to FI?
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2012, 01:14:51 PM »
I'm telling you man, cell phone data is expensive.

You all do need to remember that there are very real physical limits to just how much information can be sent over the cell phone spectrum.  That makes it a limited resource (particularly in densely populated areas), so naturally the people who control it are going to charge whatever the market will bear.


arebelspy

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Re: Is iPhone Ownership Antithetical to FI?
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2012, 04:22:42 PM »
so naturally the people who control it are going to charge whatever the market will bear.

They'll do that even if it's an unlimited, renewable resource.  Especially if there's a lack of competition (due largely in part to their shenanigans).
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.