Portland suburbs comparison?

[Lance Hiruma]

We are thinking about living in the area for a year or two posts-FI. just to try out. What are the pros and cons (and tips) of these areas – Hillsboro, Newberg, Sherwood, Camas, Gresham, and Vancouver? We really love Portland last time we visited back in 2014. We would try to rent first, probably 1-2 bedrooms. Rent looks quite high across the board. The idea is to – we want to base here and access to all the nearby nation parks, Oregon Coast, Seattle, Eugene, Bend, etc. 
Help?

[bacchi]

Do you ever plan to get into the city?

The Couv is cheaper but driving into Portland is crazypants. Maybe off-rush hour, it'd be barely tolerable.

I'd try and live somewhere near the Max if you want to get into the city. Hillsboro or Aloha?

[jgoody]

No state income tax is a major plus of Vancouver.  But yes, traffic between the two is terrible and only getting worse. On the other hand, that can be said about all of the suburbs.

[jgoody]

Also, are you really sure you want a suburb and not Portland itself?  I've known so many people in the suburbs who barely ever venture into Portland, which seems an expensive shame because as you've noticed, rents in the suburbs are also high.  My vote would be to either live in Portland itself and revel in all it has to offer or live far enough away that you're in a lower COL area.

[Bracken_Joy]

Every friend I've had who moved to the Portland suburbs ends up leaving entirely. The people who move into the city stay.

If you're in the suburbs, you'll never end up enjoying what town has to offer, IMO.

[Lance Hiruma]

Thank you for the response, we will have definitely look into Portland itself. We currently reside in Phoenix metro and things are far apart and one can enjoy what the metro has to offer, whether living in Phoenix, Tempe, Chandler, Scottsdale, etc. Maybe Portland is quite different. Will have to check it out. We may want to spend a week in Portland to get a feel of it.

[Bracken_Joy]

Thank you for the response, we will have definitely look into Portland itself. We currently reside in Phoenix metro and things are far apart and one can enjoy what the metro has to offer, whether living in Phoenix, Tempe, Chandler, Scottsdale, etc. Maybe Portland is quite different. Will have to check it out. We may want to spend a week in Portland to get a feel of it.

Portland is very different. It's geographically constrained, so we are very limited on where highways can go. Everyone going through Portland, and coming/going from Portland, do it on 3-4 main highways. In spite of being a small city, it has some of the longest average commute times in the country. If you work on peak hours, or visit town then, you're just... screwed.

Phoenix is in a valley where the city was able to grow around the highways. It was planned, then growth happened. Portland is the opposite. Highways were put where there was room and when the city was MUCH smaller, and it's all been reactionary. End result: terrible road design compared to PHX. In 45 min, you can get from AJ to Scotsdale. In 45 min in Portland? You can't get from Willsonville to the city center a lot of days.

[robartsd]

We are thinking about living in the area for a year or two posts-FI. just to try out. ... The idea is to – we want to base here and access to all the nearby nation parks, Oregon Coast, Seattle, Eugene, Bend, etc. 

I think I agree with others, either Portland proper for the local amenities or away from Portland and its suburbs. That said, my sister lives in Vancouver and loves it there; but traffic is always a problem when crossing the Columbia (I don't remember if her husband works on the Oregon side or not). Washington side has no income tax, Oregon side has no sales tax - plenty of people like living in Washington and shopping in Oregon.

[spokey doke]

I'll also recommend living in the city...OR  (if your hobbies involve getting out of town to the coast or the mountains or the gorge, and you don't need to commute to a job...)...going further out

[Krolik]

We lived in Hillsboro for 3 years and getting to Portland was a nightmare ( I was commuting to OHSU). Traffic on 26 is horrible and there is no day without accident or being stuck in a traffic jam. Hillsboro is quiet with much lower housing prices than Portland and we liked living there but there is not much going on there. For any kind of events you will end up going to Portland which is a hassle.
One thing you need to remember about is the weather. It is overcast, very little sun and rainy for ~9 months and only summers a really beautiful (but can be very hot and AC is not a standard like e.g, in FL). It really got to me and it took me almost 3 years to get used to this weather, but then we moved.

[Bracken_Joy]

We lived in Hillsboro for 3 years and getting to Portland was a nightmare ( I was commuting to OHSU). Traffic on 26 is horrible and there is no day without accident or being stuck in a traffic jam. Hillsboro is quiet with much lower housing prices than Portland and we liked living there but there is not much going on there. For any kind of events you will end up going to Portland which is a hassle.
One thing you need to remember about is the weather. It is overcast, very little sun and rainy for ~9 months and only summers a really beautiful (but can be very hot and AC is not a standard like e.g, in FL). It really got to me and it took me almost 3 years to get used to this weather, but then we moved.

This is very true. And if you visit in February, and it's sunny? Yeah, we call that the "February Fake out", and is probably about 75% of what keeps people actually living here ;) a 1-2 week break of bliss to give you false hopes of spring, before the rain starts dumping down again. Just be sure you know what you're getting into! =)

[fuzzy math]

Hillsboro - way the fuck out there (but on the MAX line which is crowded and still takes an hour to get downtown), prob 50 mins on Hway 26 into town anywhere near rush hour 6-10 am and 2-7 pm
Newberg - way the fuck out there, I5 sucks too
Sherwood - way the fuck out there I5 sucks too
Camas - snooty old ladies with bouffant hairspray helmet heads, the I205 bridge from WA sucks
Gresham - meth
Vancouver - trashy ppl, both bridges (I5, I205) from WA suck

If you're going to be FIREd why not spend a bit more and get a smaller space in PDX? Or start out cheap in Eugene and come explore portland enough until you are sure where you want to live?

[MaybeBabyMustache]

We are thinking about living in the area for a year or two posts-FI. just to try out. ... The idea is to – we want to base here and access to all the nearby nation parks, Oregon Coast, Seattle, Eugene, Bend, etc. 

I think I agree with others, either Portland proper for the local amenities or away from Portland and its suburbs. That said, my sister lives in Vancouver and loves it there; but traffic is always a problem when crossing the Columbia (I don't remember if her husband works on the Oregon side or not). Washington side has no income tax, Oregon side has no sales tax - plenty of people like living in Washington and shopping in Oregon.

Sister also lives in Vancouver & loves it. Works in Vancouver, no income tax. Buys almost everything like groceries in Oregon.

[jgoody]

Thank you for the response, we will have definitely look into Portland itself. We currently reside in Phoenix metro and things are far apart and one can enjoy what the metro has to offer, whether living in Phoenix, Tempe, Chandler, Scottsdale, etc. Maybe Portland is quite different. Will have to check it out. We may want to spend a week in Portland to get a feel of it.

While you're visiting, I'd recommend also checking out Eugene & Corvallis.  Both are college towns with outdoor proximity similar to Portland (mountains not too far east and beaches not too far west).  Eugene is the more liberal, Corvallis the more conservative.  Both are much more affordable than Portland.

If you are primarily interested in coastal stuff, Astoria, Newport, and Manzanita are my personal favorites.

If you are primarily interested in mountain & gorge stuff, Hood River & White Salmon are really cool, but also a little expensive because they're such easy/close vacation spots for Portlanders.  Bend and Ashland are other nice spots that are unfortunately also a little expensive. 

And then we come back to Portland.  Which is... awesome (IMO).  But the closer you are to the center, the better.

[Lance Hiruma]

One thing you need to remember about is the weather. It is overcast, very little sun and rainy for ~9 months and only summers a really beautiful (but can be very hot and AC is not a standard like e.g, in FL). It really got to me and it took me almost 3 years to get used to this weather, but then we moved.

Yep, we definitely thought about that. I think maybe it is because we are in an extremely dry and sunny milieu right now and looking for a change. However, we want to try it out and therefore not buying a home yet.

[Lance Hiruma]

Thank you for the response, we will have definitely look into Portland itself. We currently reside in Phoenix metro and things are far apart and one can enjoy what the metro has to offer, whether living in Phoenix, Tempe, Chandler, Scottsdale, etc. Maybe Portland is quite different. Will have to check it out. We may want to spend a week in Portland to get a feel of it.

While you're visiting, I'd recommend also checking out Eugene & Corvallis.  Both are college towns with outdoor proximity similar to Portland (mountains not too far east and beaches not too far west).  Eugene is the more liberal, Corvallis the more conservative.  Both are much more affordable than Portland.

If you are primarily interested in coastal stuff, Astoria, Newport, and Manzanita are my personal favorites.

If you are primarily interested in mountain & gorge stuff, Hood River & White Salmon are really cool, but also a little expensive because they're such easy/close vacation spots for Portlanders.  Bend and Ashland are other nice spots that are unfortunately also a little expensive. 

And then we come back to Portland.  Which is... awesome (IMO).  But the closer you are to the center, the better.

Definitely thought about Eugene. Not that much cheaper though.  And yeah maybe Portland is the center of it all -
Segalen says that once the earth has become a sphere, every movement distancing us from a point by the same token also begins to bring us closer to that point.

[Lance Hiruma]

Thank you for the response, we will have definitely look into Portland itself. We currently reside in Phoenix metro and things are far apart and one can enjoy what the metro has to offer, whether living in Phoenix, Tempe, Chandler, Scottsdale, etc. Maybe Portland is quite different. Will have to check it out. We may want to spend a week in Portland to get a feel of it.

Portland is very different. It's geographically constrained, so we are very limited on where highways can go. Everyone going through Portland, and coming/going from Portland, do it on 3-4 main highways. In spite of being a small city, it has some of the longest average commute times in the country. If you work on peak hours, or visit town then, you're just... screwed.

Phoenix is in a valley where the city was able to grow around the highways. It was planned, then growth happened. Portland is the opposite. Highways were put where there was room and when the city was MUCH smaller, and it's all been reactionary. End result: terrible road design compared to PHX. In 45 min, you can get from AJ to Scotsdale. In 45 min in Portland? You can't get from Willsonville to the city center a lot of days.

Yep, it totally makes sense. On the same token, Austin also has bad infrastructure for such a hub.

[Lance Hiruma]

Hillsboro - way the fuck out there (but on the MAX line which is crowded and still takes an hour to get downtown), prob 50 mins on Hway 26 into town anywhere near rush hour 6-10 am and 2-7 pm
Newberg - way the fuck out there, I5 sucks too
Sherwood - way the fuck out there I5 sucks too
Camas - snooty old ladies with bouffant hairspray helmet heads, the I205 bridge from WA sucks
Gresham - meth
Vancouver - trashy ppl, both bridges (I5, I205) from WA suck

If you're going to be FIREd why not spend a bit more and get a smaller space in PDX? Or start out cheap in Eugene and come explore portland enough until you are sure where you want to live?

So the theme is, traffic really sux. Since we will be FIRE and flexible, maybe off-peak travel would help some. For events that we want to attend, maybe not so much. Definitely something of paramount importance.

[fruitfly]

I mean, why Portland? What do you like about it and want to do here?

That sort of informs where you want to live - if you like hiking and OUTDOORS! then you'll want to be further east - Troutdale, even Sandy/Estacada. If you like city things (as much as Pdx has them - we have one art museum but a decent amount of music and other art venues) then you'll want to be closer. If you like strip malls, chain stores, and dive bars then the east suburbs are for you! But honestly, I've never understood why people move to Oregon to live in Beaverton which looks like every single suburb (except with trees and bad weather) - you might has well live in Reno!

I live in the city proper because I like a walkable and public transportable neighborhood. But it is more expensive! I used to live in Troutdale on the edge of the metro area, and the daily commute was a pain (and it's gotten 10x as bad in the last 10 years).

[Bracken_Joy]

Thank you for the response, we will have definitely look into Portland itself. We currently reside in Phoenix metro and things are far apart and one can enjoy what the metro has to offer, whether living in Phoenix, Tempe, Chandler, Scottsdale, etc. Maybe Portland is quite different. Will have to check it out. We may want to spend a week in Portland to get a feel of it.

While you're visiting, I'd recommend also checking out Eugene & Corvallis.  Both are college towns with outdoor proximity similar to Portland (mountains not too far east and beaches not too far west).  Eugene is the more liberal, Corvallis the more conservative.  Both are much more affordable than Portland.

If you are primarily interested in coastal stuff, Astoria, Newport, and Manzanita are my personal favorites.

If you are primarily interested in mountain & gorge stuff, Hood River & White Salmon are really cool, but also a little expensive because they're such easy/close vacation spots for Portlanders.  Bend and Ashland are other nice spots that are unfortunately also a little expensive. 

And then we come back to Portland.  Which is... awesome (IMO).  But the closer you are to the center, the better.

Definitely thought about Eugene. Not that much cheaper though.  And yeah maybe Portland is the center of it all -
Segalen says that once the earth has become a sphere, every movement distancing us from a point by the same token also begins to bring us closer to that point.

If you're talking housing prices? There is a pretty major difference in price between Eugene and Portland. Also things you wouldn't think about- Portland has a $0.10/gal tax on gas, Eugene does not. That sort of thing. They are very different places though, so read up on them. In the "mustachian relation thread" I wrote about several Oregon cities.
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/mustachian-relocation-guide/

Also, here's a COL comparison of the two: http://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/portland-or/eugene-or/50000
Comparison highlights:
Eugene is 21% cheaper than Portland.
Housing is the biggest factor in the cost of living difference.
Housing is 35% cheaper in Eugene.

[Lanthiriel]

Dude, if you’re FIRE, why come here to rainy California with its horrible weather and 10% income tax? I only live here cuz jobs. I’m in Tigard, which is nice because we have low property tax and aren’t so far out of downtown that it’s inaccessible. It’s a good spot because we’re 20 minutes from just about everything except NE Portland. My husband works in Wilsonville, which is about 10% cheaper on the housing front and right on the Willamette River with easy access to I-5. I really like Newberg and Hillsboro, but as others have mentioned, access isn’t great.

You’re probably better off in Vancouver if you’re set on the area from a COL perspective. Or I would suggest the Olympic Peninsula in Washington. Access to tons of gorgeous wildlife without the income tax issue, and near enough Seattle if you need a City.

[kimmarg]

I'd say Falmouth or South Portland..... oh you meant the "other" Portland.

[spokey doke]

I mean, why Portland? What do you like about it and want to do here?

That sort of informs where you want to live - if you like hiking and OUTDOORS! then you'll want to be further east - Troutdale, even Sandy/Estacada. If you like city things (as much as Pdx has them - we have one art museum but a decent amount of music and other art venues) then you'll want to be closer. If you like strip malls, chain stores, and dive bars then the east suburbs are for you! But honestly, I've never understood why people move to Oregon to live in Beaverton which looks like every single suburb (except with trees and bad weather) - you might has well live in Reno!

I live in the city proper because I like a walkable and public transportable neighborhood. But it is more expensive! I used to live in Troutdale on the edge of the metro area, and the daily commute was a pain (and it's gotten 10x as bad in the last 10 years).

Exactly...

[pdxvandal]

Vancouver is fine if you choose to drive to PDX in non-peak hours. It's not a bad drive into PDX between 3-7 p.m., just don't try to drive north to Vancouver between 3-7 p.m. Vancouver has a nice, underrated downtown area.

If not that, then just live in the city, as the other communities you listed are less-than-desirable and a PITA to get into PDX. I'm biased toward N and NE Portland, but SE has a lot going on (Belmont/Hawthorne very bohemian/hipster/hippie), Sellwood is more affluent but still close to stuff and has a nice commercial district. I'd also look at Milwaukie, which has lower costs than the city, but you are a short MAX Line ride into town (15 minutes). It also has a decent downtown with a farmer's market, bars, a few restaurants, and is close to the Willamette. It's gotten the moniker Thrillwaukie because it's becoming a bit more happening than it used to.

Eugene and Corvallis are nice, but you might get a little bored there and you'll be around a lot more college-age folks, which might be OK for you.

For the record, I live in a close-in suburb (15-minute drive or 35-min bus ride into the city), but I only live here for raising children, schools, etc. It's nice, but a little boring and no diversity. Otherwise, I'd definitely be back in NE Portland where I lived for over a decade.

Good luck!

[Lance Hiruma]

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/mustachian-relocation-guide/

Also, here's a COL comparison of the two: http://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/portland-or/eugene-or/50000
Comparison highlights:
Eugene is 21% cheaper than Portland.
Housing is the biggest factor in the cost of living difference.
Housing is 35% cheaper in Eugene.

Great info. COL data is often a coarse grained measure but it provides some insights. Eugene seems cool and college town definitely has its allure. It is 2 hours away from Portland though.

[Bracken_Joy]

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/mustachian-relocation-guide/

Also, here's a COL comparison of the two: http://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/portland-or/eugene-or/50000
Comparison highlights:
Eugene is 21% cheaper than Portland.
Housing is the biggest factor in the cost of living difference.
Housing is 35% cheaper in Eugene.

Great info. COL data is often a coarse grained measure but it provides some insights. Eugene seems cool and college town definitely has its allure. It is 2 hours away from Portland though.

Yes, Eugene is a bad place to live if you want to go into Portland often. You had just mentioned exploring Eugene and so on, and it had been dismissed primarily as a cost factor it seemed. I wanted to address the misconception.

[Lance Hiruma]

I mean, why Portland? What do you like about it and want to do here?

...I've never understood why people move to Oregon to live in Beaverton which looks like every single suburb (except with trees and bad weather) - you might has well live in Reno!

Portland is close to many great outdoors, close to Seattle/BC, oceans and mountains.  People are amicable (based on what I researched). It has great food/music/events, it is progressive and health conscious. It has a good airport (we love to travel). Looks like a good base.

[Lance Hiruma]

Dude, if you’re FIRE, why come here to rainy California with its horrible weather and 10% income tax? I only live here cuz jobs. I’m in Tigard, which is nice because we have low property tax and aren’t so far out of downtown that it’s inaccessible. It’s a good spot because we’re 20 minutes from just about everything except NE Portland. My husband works in Wilsonville, which is about 10% cheaper on the housing front and right on the Willamette River with easy access to I-5. I really like Newberg and Hillsboro, but as others have mentioned, access isn’t great.

You’re probably better off in Vancouver if you’re set on the area from a COL perspective. Or I would suggest the Olympic Peninsula in Washington. Access to tons of gorgeous wildlife without the income tax issue, and near enough Seattle if you need a City.

Yep I know people live in Vancouver for that exact reasons. Dividend income do get mauled in Oregon state income tax.

[fuzzy math]

Yep I know people live in VANTUCKY for that exact reasons. Dividend income do get mauled in Oregon state income tax.

[fuzzy math]

I mean, why Portland? What do you like about it and want to do here?

...I've never understood why people move to Oregon to live in Beaverton which looks like every single suburb (except with trees and bad weather) - you might has well live in Reno!

Former Beaverton resident here -- because 2 of PDX's biggest employers are out that way (Nike / Intel) and it makes the most sense to live near your work??? I am honestly baffled why you would not comprehend that.

[fruitfly]

...I've never understood why people move to Oregon to live in Beaverton which looks like every single suburb (except with trees and bad weather) - you might has well live in Reno!

Former Beaverton resident here -- because 2 of PDX's biggest employers are out that way (Nike / Intel) and it makes the most sense to live near your work??? I am honestly baffled why you would not comprehend that.

Guess I should have tagged /s? :D  I mean, I get it, but seriously, Intel has a campus in Irvine, California, too. But that kind of suburb isn't my thing (which is why I left Orange County in the first place!) Incidentally my neighbor works at Nike and though it is "only" 13 miles away it is probably a 60-90 minute car commute most days.

[deek]

I lived in Wilsonville. Great spot, rent was 1165 for 2 bed 1 bath.

[Lance Hiruma]

Thank you for all the great responses, I think we will have to visit some of the aforementioned places in order to make an informed decision. It should be fun. :)

[norajean]

How is Happy Valley?  How about Kings Heights and he nearby hillside areas?

[Cgbg]

Happy valley is a clusterfuck of horrific traffic and boring houses and strip malls. I-205 is terrible, which is what you’d use to get to Portland proper.

I like West Linn, but there is a pinch point going thru Lake Oswego. Off hours isn’t bad. Hwy 43 is a pretty straight shot into Portland. Oregon City is a bit further out, but it’d be slower to get into Portland.

[norajean]

We think the greater Portland area ticks a lot of boxes.  It is progressive, educated, cultural, outdoorsy, affordable, quasi-coastal, non-corrupt, bike friendly, volcanic, and foodie.

We won’t be commuting. Aside from gray skies (which we like) and state income tax (which is not a big deal), what is not to like?

[Hotstreak]

You should try NE Portland. Maybe Alberta neighborhood? Lots of restaurants, artsy, bikeable.

We think the greater Portland area ticks a lot of boxes.  It is progressive, educated, cultural, outdoorsy, affordable, quasi-coastal, non-corrupt, bike friendly, volcanic, and foodie.

We won’t be commuting. Aside from gray skies (which we like) and state income tax (which is not a big deal), what is not to like?