Author Topic: Investment Headache.... so many 401ks, IRAs, mind is spinning  (Read 2234 times)

Easye418

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Investment Headache.... so many 401ks, IRAs, mind is spinning
« on: December 02, 2016, 08:39:24 AM »
All,

I just moved to a new company, unfortunately, they have MassMutual as a provider, and it doesn't look they are moving anywhere soon because most of the company is long timers and stuck all their money in the 3% guaranteed stable fund. 

That leaves me (27) with extremely poor choices in for my funds. 


My New 401k choices (MassMutual)Return;
SF Guaranteed Stable Value3%;
;;;
Other fundsER Amounts;
2 Bond Funds.67%-.79%;
10 Asset Allocation('10-'55 T Rowe)1.08%-1.25%;
Comstock (Invesco)0.83%;
MM S&P 500 Index (Northern Trust)0.62%;
Blended Research Core Eq (MFS)0.49%;
Sel Gr Opps (Sands/JSP)1.04%;
Mid Cap Value (JP Morgan)0.99%;
Mid Cap Index(Northern)0.15%;
Sel Md Cp Gr II (TRP/Frontier)1.30%;
Small Cap Value (Northern)1.01%;
Small Cap Index (Northern)0.15%;
New Horizons (T Rowe)0.79%;
EuroPacific Growth (American)1.14%;
;;;
My Old 401k Choices (Vanguard)ERCategory
RERFX0.54%Int Stock
GERIX1.18%Int Stock
OSCIX0.84%Int Stock
VGTSX0.19%Int Stock
RGAFX0.39%US Stock
DLDRX1.09%US Stock
FRESX0.77%US Stock
JSMGX0.78%US Stock
JVMIX0.86%US Stock
JIVRX0.48%US Stock
MEFZX0.73%US Stock
VFINX0.16%US Stock
VIMSX0.20%US Stock
NAESX0.20%US Stock
VSOIX0.96%US Stock
BPRIX0.44%Bond
PTRQX0.46%Bond
PIMIX0.45%Bond
TGBAX0.65%Bond
Vanguard Target Funds;;
;;;
My Inherited IRA% Mix;
VTSAX80;
VTIAX20;
;;;
My soon to be new Vanguard Traditional IRA% Mix;
VTSAX100%;
;;;
My Wife's 401kER;
VPMAX0.34%

Facts:
Risk tolerance:  I would prefer to be in 100% US Stocks, trying to mimic the S&P.

Questions:

1.  What should I invest my new 401k?  Should I do a 50/50 split of Mid Cap Index (Northern) and Small Cap Index (Northern)?  Should I dabble in the 3% stable fund? 

2.  My old 401k is in 84% VFINX and 16% NAESX.  I was kind of shocked to see this as I would have thought I would be 100% VFINX.  Could there be a reason my old self would have done this split?

3.  Since my choices in my new 401k are poor, should I focus on maxing out my wife's VPMAX first? 

Thank you for assisting with this headache.

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: Investment Headache.... so many 401ks, IRAs, mind is spinning
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2016, 08:42:38 AM »
Quote
Risk tolerance:  I would prefer to be in 100% US Stocks, trying to mimic the S&P.
  There is an S&P 500 Index fund.

I wish I could make a table like that.

SweetTPi

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Re: Investment Headache.... so many 401ks, IRAs, mind is spinning
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2016, 09:37:30 AM »
Depending on what your balances are in the IRAs, you could try to emulate a total stock market index (like VTSAX) by combining the mid & small indexes in your 401k with a large index in your IRA.  This would leave you in the lower expense funds.  This is essentially what I do with my 401k, as I use the large/medium/small cap index funds to emulate a total stock market index.

Downsides:  This would not mimic the S&P500 like you say you want, but instead a total market (VTSAX).  It will be more work to ensure the balance is correct with it being situated over different accounts.  Lastly, your 401k balance may become too large to sustain the correct balance over a long time since it has higher contribution limits than an IRA.

Easye418

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Re: Investment Headache.... so many 401ks, IRAs, mind is spinning
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2016, 09:46:24 AM »
Depending on what your balances are in the IRAs, you could try to emulate a total stock market index (like VTSAX) by combining the mid & small indexes in your 401k with a large index in your IRA.  This would leave you in the lower expense funds.  This is essentially what I do with my 401k, as I use the large/medium/small cap index funds to emulate a total stock market index.

Downsides:  This would not mimic the S&P500 like you say you want, but instead a total market (VTSAX).  It will be more work to ensure the balance is correct with it being situated over different accounts.  Lastly, your 401k balance may become too large to sustain the correct balance over a long time since it has higher contribution limits than an IRA.

Yeah, sorry, I am trying to mimic VTSAX.  I guess I will put medium and small cap in my 401k.  Should I do a 50/50 split?   I will do this for my match and then max out my wife's VPMAX when I get the chance to begin.  Then I may focus on traditional IRA for me and then open one for my wife, then focus on my 401k.

Ben Hogan

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Re: Investment Headache.... so many 401ks, IRAs, mind is spinning
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2016, 10:11:01 AM »
And you can roll your old in to an Roth so it's more flexible to invest.

Rubyvroom

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Re: Investment Headache.... so many 401ks, IRAs, mind is spinning
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2016, 10:44:12 AM »
See the Bogleheads wiki Approximating Total Stock Market to find some ideas on how to approach this. An 81/4/15 split between S&P/mid/small is a good blend to shoot for.

It's hard for us to say exactly the best way to do that without knowing the balances you're dealing with, but perhaps you'll see a path to get there after taking a spin through the wiki.

Easye418

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Re: Investment Headache.... so many 401ks, IRAs, mind is spinning
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2016, 10:56:12 AM »
And you can roll your old in to an Roth so it's more flexible to invest.

Wait so you are saying I can roll my old 401k into my tIRA and just move the money into VTSAX?  I'd love to roll it into my tIRA that I am moving from Chase.

I do have some un-vested money I would lose if I moved my employer account... however, I would surely be better throwing it into VTSAX and saving on fees.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 11:01:04 AM by Easye418 »

SweetTPi

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Re: Investment Headache.... so many 401ks, IRAs, mind is spinning
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2016, 11:14:30 AM »
And you can roll your old in to an Roth so it's more flexible to invest.

Wait so you are saying I can roll my old 401k into my tIRA and just move the money into VTSAX?  I'd love to roll it into my tIRA that I am moving from Chase.

I do have some un-vested money I would lose if I moved my employer account... however, I would surely be better throwing it into VTSAX and saving on fees.

Yes, I would recommend moving the old 401k into the tIRA, for both better options and the convenience of fewer accounts.  You may have different vesting rules, but my understanding is that in general vesting depends on how long you were with the employer, not how long the account is with the custodian.  Generally, any unvested money wasn't really yours to begin with, and thus you don't really lose it.  (Again, take a look at the fine print, but in general, that's how it works.)

Have you had a chance to read the stock series at www.jlcollinsnh.com?  That's one of my go-to resources for this type of thing.  There are many parts that cover topics relevant to this discussion, and may help clear up a few things.  I've read it many many times.

Yeah, sorry, I am trying to mimic VTSAX.  I guess I will put medium and small cap in my 401k.  Should I do a 50/50 split?   I will do this for my match and then max out my wife's VPMAX when I get the chance to begin.  Then I may focus on traditional IRA for me and then open one for my wife, then focus on my 401k.

I'm not sure I agree with your funding priorities.  If it were me, I would make the match on both 401k accounts, then fully fund the IRA accounts.  I wouldn't raise the 401k accounts higher until I knew the IRAs were going to be funded, since those have better options with Vanguard.

Easye418

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Re: Investment Headache.... so many 401ks, IRAs, mind is spinning
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2016, 11:51:11 AM »
And you can roll your old in to an Roth so it's more flexible to invest.

Wait so you are saying I can roll my old 401k into my tIRA and just move the money into VTSAX?  I'd love to roll it into my tIRA that I am moving from Chase.

I do have some un-vested money I would lose if I moved my employer account... however, I would surely be better throwing it into VTSAX and saving on fees.

Yes, I would recommend moving the old 401k into the tIRA, for both better options and the convenience of fewer accounts.  You may have different vesting rules, but my understanding is that in general vesting depends on how long you were with the employer, not how long the account is with the custodian.  Generally, any unvested money wasn't really yours to begin with, and thus you don't really lose it.  (Again, take a look at the fine print, but in general, that's how it works.)

Have you had a chance to read the stock series at www.jlcollinsnh.com?  That's one of my go-to resources for this type of thing.  There are many parts that cover topics relevant to this discussion, and may help clear up a few things.  I've read it many many times.

Yeah, sorry, I am trying to mimic VTSAX.  I guess I will put medium and small cap in my 401k.  Should I do a 50/50 split?   I will do this for my match and then max out my wife's VPMAX when I get the chance to begin.  Then I may focus on traditional IRA for me and then open one for my wife, then focus on my 401k.

I'm not sure I agree with your funding priorities.  If it were me, I would make the match on both 401k accounts, then fully fund the IRA accounts.  I wouldn't raise the 401k accounts higher until I knew the IRAs were going to be funded, since those have better options with Vanguard.

Definitely matching the 401ks (I always do that).  I really like VPMAX (PRIMECAP Admiral shares), that is the only reason why I wouldn't put the money initially into the tIRA.  I know VTSAX is .05% ER vs VPMAX of .34%, but still, I like the option. 
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 11:55:20 AM by Easye418 »