The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: mobileagent on April 24, 2016, 05:20:03 PM
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We currently live in Pacific Northwest, which is a great location to raise a family with good jobs around. However, it is a pretty expensive place in comparison to many places in the US. Once we ER, we would like to move to a different city in the US that meets the following criteria:
- Able to buy a 4 BR 2500 sq ft home under $300K
- Great public schools (9+/10 ratings)
- Open minded/inclusive community, diverse
- Not too cold/minimal snow. Ok with warm/hot/rain
- Access to good public libraries and parks
- State tax needs to be <=6%
- Less than 1 hour from outdoor activities
- Less than two hours from a major airport
Appreciate any recommendations of the towns for us after ER. Thanks.
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Muleshoe, Texas
Polish up your Spanish...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muleshoe,_Texas
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We currently live in Pacific Northwest, which is a great location to raise a family with good jobs around. However, it is a pretty expensive place in comparison to many places in the US. Once we ER, we would like to move to a different city in the US that meets the following criteria:
- Able to buy a 4 BR 2500 sq ft home under $300K
- Great public schools (9+/10 ratings)
- Open minded/inclusive community, diverse
- Not too cold/minimal snow. Ok with warm/hot/rain
- Access to good public libraries and parks
- State tax needs to be <=6%
- Less than 1 hour from outdoor activities
- Less than two hours from a major airport
Appreciate any recommendations of the towns for us after ER. Thanks.
Is sales tax under 6% that big of a deal if you save $150k on a house? That would offset $5,000,000 in spending, assuming $150k house and 9% sales tax.
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Mizzoura. Particularly the kc side. Only a little snow.
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Is sales tax under 6% that big of a deal if you save $150k on a house? That would offset $5,000,000 in spending, assuming $150k house and 9% sales tax.
Fair feedback. Sales/State Income taxes are a lower priority for us in comparison to reducing overall expenses.
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Sugar Land, TX?
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What does an open minded diverse community mean to you? Some people define that differently.
I can think of some good places in the South, particularly the Carolina's, Florida, or Georgia that might fit the bill. I found the communities in the South to be very open and welcoming when I lived there, but I know a lot of West Coaster's (I'm a Californian) instinctively view the entire South as a redneck backwater.
I really like living near Nashville and Atlanta, although they might not fit your price/school criteria.
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http://www.bloomberg.com/ss/09/09/0924_zip_codes_with_great_schools/1.htm
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http://www.bloomberg.com/ss/09/09/0924_zip_codes_with_great_schools/1.htm
This is an awesome link! Thank you
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Thanks everyone for the feedback!
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How about college towns?
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Wesley Chapel, FL
Ticks every box on your list.
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- Able to buy a 4 BR 2500 sq ft home under $300K
- Great public schools (9+/10 ratings)
- Open minded/inclusive community, diverse
- Not too cold/minimal snow. Ok with warm/hot/rain
- Access to good public libraries and parks
- State tax needs to be <=6%
- Less than 1 hour from outdoor activities
- Less than two hours from a major airport
Appreciate any recommendations of the towns for us after ER. Thanks.
To slightly hijack the thread. How about for those who love the cold and want snow? But aren't big fans of heat? I missed skiing/snowboarding this year because I didn't feel it was worth ice skating down the slopes in the Northeast.
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- Able to buy a 4 BR 2500 sq ft home under $300K
- Great public schools (9+/10 ratings)
- Open minded/inclusive community, diverse
- Not too cold/minimal snow. Ok with warm/hot/rain
- Access to good public libraries and parks
- State tax needs to be <=6%
- Less than 1 hour from outdoor activities
- Less than two hours from a major airport
Appreciate any recommendations of the towns for us after ER. Thanks.
To slightly hijack the thread. How about for those who love the cold and want snow? But aren't big fans of heat? I missed skiing/snowboarding this year because I didn't feel it was worth ice skating down the slopes in the Northeast.
I would look at Nevada near the Sierras/Lake Tahoe. Beautiful area, and the Nevada side is reasonable priced, even if the CA side is a little nicer(no casinos).
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Chattanooga? It's our top candidate for FIRE now that Portland is getting ridiculous.
The Tennessee River runs right through downtown (bigger than the Willamette) then cuts through the Cumberland Plateau in a deep gorge right downstream of town. Lookout Mountain forms a nice backdrop. It's also about two hours from the Blue Ridge Mountains (they look like the Cascades, but with more biodiversity) and about an hour from the Ocoee River where you can run the 1996 Olympic whitewater slalom course. The ocean is a bit far, but the sugar-white beaches of the FL panhandle are worth every one of the 400 miles to get there.
Real estate is cheap. TN has no income tax (but does tax dividends).
Snow is only about once a winter, although it really varies from year to year. It does get a bit steamy in the summer, though.
Major airport? How about the busiest one in the world? Chattanooga's about 2 hrs from ATL.
Inner city Chattanooga is inclusive (but the burbs and the rest of TN not so much)
Don't know much about schools, though, since I don't have kids.
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We currently live in Pacific Northwest, which is a great location to raise a family with good jobs around. However, it is a pretty expensive place in comparison to many places in the US. Once we ER, we would like to move to a different city in the US that meets the following criteria:
- Able to buy a 4 BR 2500 sq ft home under $300K
- Great public schools (9+/10 ratings)
- Open minded/inclusive community, diverse
- Not too cold/minimal snow. Ok with warm/hot/rain
- Access to good public libraries and parks
- State tax needs to be <=6%
- Less than 1 hour from outdoor activities
- Less than two hours from a major airport
Appreciate any recommendations of the towns for us after ER. Thanks.
Bloomington, IN. Great schools, low cost of living. Fun college town atmosphere.
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Have you looked at Eugene OR?
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Have you looked at Eugene OR?
Doesn't meet income tax, and I don't think it quite fits "great" public schools, either.
If they're tired of PNW grey and drizzle, it doesn't win there, either.
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Awesome set of recommendations! Thank you
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Corvallis, Oregon. Check it out on Wikipedia. It's small and they keep big chains OUT. Bike lanes on every major street... it's a dream.
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Asheville, NC
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Atlanta. Stay inside I-285 (or at least near it) for maximum inclusiveness / diversity, although the Buford Highway corridor is extremely diverse too. The best school quality/house price ratio is in the East Lake neighborhood of the City of Atlanta (former housing projects got redeveloped and got a very good charter school).
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Denton TX (my home)
-college town: funky, always changing, lib for my taste but they do bring the fun.
-reasonable COL
-no state income tax
-2.x% property tax
-easy access to state parks to the North
-easy access to the big DFW area to the South
-hot in the summer (get a pool)
-cold and windy in winter, sometimes. Sometimes it's 70 and sunny for Christmas.
-don't know about public schools.
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I highly suggest you check out the Rogers/Bentonville/Fayetteville area.
The fact that Walmart is headquartered there has done amazing things for the area.
There's Crystal Bridges Museum, the University of Arkansas, lots of great housing for the demand created by vendor Reps who deal with Walmart.
Within an hour you could be in the Ozark Mountains and caves, or on the very clean Beaver Lake, or visiting hundreds of tigers at Turpentine Creek near Eureka Springs.
A days drive can get you to the Rockies, the Appalachians, Texas countryside, or the Great Lakes. Going further? XNA airport can get you anywhere you want and is one of the most low key airports you'll find.
It snows occasionally but it doesn't stay all winter.
Cultural diverse? Probably less so, but the U of A actively tries to bring more world culture in various ways. There is a surprising large South Asian population in the area so you could always join a cricket league if you're so inclined. Plus if you look around you'll find things like Marian Days in Carthage, Missouri where tens of thousands of Catholic Vietnamese gather from all over the country for a week long festival.
Happy hunting
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We currently live in Pacific Northwest, which is a great location to raise a family with good jobs around. However, it is a pretty expensive place in comparison to many places in the US. Once we ER, we would like to move to a different city in the US that meets the following criteria:
- Able to buy a 4 BR 2500 sq ft home under $300K
- Great public schools (9+/10 ratings)
- Open minded/inclusive community, diverse
- Not too cold/minimal snow. Ok with warm/hot/rain
- Access to good public libraries and parks
- State tax needs to be <=6%
- Less than 1 hour from outdoor activities
- Less than two hours from a major airport
Appreciate any recommendations of the towns for us after ER. Thanks.
Problem is that low cost and cheap housing is often reversely correlated with good schools, libraries and public services in general. And often to "inclusiveness" too, by which I assume general redneck attitudes.. I'm sure there are many lovely places in the south, but looking into the politics of those areas not many places I'd want to live.
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We currently live in Pacific Northwest, which is a great location to raise a family with good jobs around. However, it is a pretty expensive place in comparison to many places in the US. Once we ER, we would like to move to a different city in the US that meets the following criteria:
- Able to buy a 4 BR 2500 sq ft home under $300K
- Great public schools (9+/10 ratings)
- Open minded/inclusive community, diverse
- Not too cold/minimal snow. Ok with warm/hot/rain
- Access to good public libraries and parks
- State tax needs to be <=6%
- Less than 1 hour from outdoor activities
- Less than two hours from a major airport
Appreciate any recommendations of the towns for us after ER. Thanks.
Problem is that low cost and cheap housing is often reversely correlated with good schools, libraries and public services in general. And often to "inclusiveness" too, by which I assume general redneck attitudes.. I'm sure there are many lovely places in the south, but looking into the politics of those areas not many places I'd want to live.
The South as a whole is quite redneck-y, I agree, but it's bigger than a lot of whole countries. There are pockets that are just as inclusive and progressive as anywhere else. Asheville, ITP Atlanta Area, New Orleans, Charlottesville, Savannah, Charleston, etc. Most any other decent-size southern cities will have a neighborhood or two that is. Plus, my experience is that the rest of the country is not always particularly good at being inclusive and progressive either.
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And often to "inclusiveness" too, by which I assume general redneck attitudes.. I'm sure there are many lovely places in the south, but looking into the politics of those areas not many places I'd want to live.
I'll let you in on a secret: being in the South doesn't make people racist or conservative. The only reason the South appears that way is that being rural correlates with being racist or conservative, and the South tends to have a higher rural/urban population ratio than the rest of the country.
In other words, the bigger the city you pick, the more you'll like the politics, and conversely, the more rural area you pick the less you'll like the politics -- regardless of which state the location is in.
In fact, I'd go so far as to say that, because the South has a more diverse population than other places (e.g. the rural Midwest (http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/04/mapping-racial-diversity-by-county/361388/), especially WV/OH/PA Appalachia), we've learned to deal with multiculturalism better than those other places. It's easy to claim to be tolerant of differences when the population is actually homogeneous, but if a bunch of dissimilar people started showing up in <insert small midwestern town here> you might be surprised how badly the incumbent population reacts.
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Tucson?
I don't know about tax, since I don't live there.
However, I have cousins that go to school there and one goes to a high school that is consistently in top 10/20 high schools in the country. I believe there is another school that lists in the top 50 or 100 also.
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We currently live in Pacific Northwest, which is a great location to raise a family with good jobs around. However, it is a pretty expensive place in comparison to many places in the US. Once we ER, we would like to move to a different city in the US that meets the following criteria:
- Able to buy a 4 BR 2500 sq ft home under $300K
- Great public schools (9+/10 ratings)
- Open minded/inclusive community, diverse
- Not too cold/minimal snow. Ok with warm/hot/rain
- Access to good public libraries and parks
- State tax needs to be <=6%
- Less than 1 hour from outdoor activities
- Less than two hours from a major airport
Appreciate any recommendations of the towns for us after ER. Thanks.
Problem is that low cost and cheap housing is often reversely correlated with good schools, libraries and public services in general. And often to "inclusiveness" too, by which I assume general redneck attitudes.. I'm sure there are many lovely places in the south, but looking into the politics of those areas not many places I'd want to live.
The South as a whole is quite redneck-y, I agree, but it's bigger than a lot of whole countries. There are pockets that are just as inclusive and progressive as anywhere else. Asheville, ITP Atlanta Area, New Orleans, Charlottesville, Savannah, Charleston, etc. Most any other decent-size southern cities will have a neighborhood or two that is. Plus, my experience is that the rest of the country is not always particularly good at being inclusive and progressive either.
Sure. But you're still affected by the state or county politics in many ways. For example when they cut all mental health programs, ban gays, add the Flintstones to the biology curriculum, or whatever other nonsense they're up to.
ps: not that the north-east, PWN and (especially!) CA isn't immune to idiotic politics, but in general I find it to be slightly less so. Perhaps less ideological? Most issues here are nanny-state nonsense.
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Sure. But you're still affected by the state or county politics in many ways. For example when they cut all mental health programs, ban gays, add the Flintstones to the biology curriculum, or whatever other nonsense they're up to.
It's difficult to gather useful information if you're just making stuff up. I am not sure what you think you are adding to the conversation besides signalling that you have disdain for the South.
(Not that there aren't bad things going on in the South to point to, but it's not especially unique in boneheaded and bigoted local governance.)
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Sure. But you're still affected by the state or county politics in many ways. For example when they cut all mental health programs, ban gays, add the Flintstones to the biology curriculum, or whatever other nonsense they're up to.
It's difficult to gather useful information if you're just making stuff up. I am not sure what you think you are adding to the conversation besides signalling that you have disdain for the South.
(Not that there aren't bad things going on in the South to point to, but it's not especially unique in boneheaded and bigoted local governance.)
Oh I don't know:
http://www.care2.com/causes/south-carolina-lt-governor-compares-states-poor-to-stray-animals.html
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/08/20/2496741/columbia-criminalize-homeless/
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-north-carolina-lgbt-20160412-story.html
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Sure. But you're still affected by the state or county politics in many ways. For example when they cut all mental health programs, ban gays, add the Flintstones to the biology curriculum, or whatever other nonsense they're up to.
It's difficult to gather useful information if you're just making stuff up. I am not sure what you think you are adding to the conversation besides signalling that you have disdain for the South.
(Not that there aren't bad things going on in the South to point to, but it's not especially unique in boneheaded and bigoted local governance.)
Oh I don't know:
http://www.care2.com/causes/south-carolina-lt-governor-compares-states-poor-to-stray-animals.html
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/08/20/2496741/columbia-criminalize-homeless/
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-north-carolina-lgbt-20160412-story.html
- Prop 8. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_%282008%29)
- Recent police murders of black people: Tamir Rice (Ohio), John Crawford (Ohio), Michael Brown (Missouri), Eric Garner (New York), etc.
- Southern Poverty Law Center hate map (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Number_of_hate_groups,_by_state,_per_million_inhabitants..png) (hate groups per capita -- note how prominently Vermont, New Hampshire, New Jersey, West Virginia, Montana and Idaho figure)
Bigotry against Southerners (stereotyping us as "rednecks" when we are, in fact, not) is bigotry too, you know.
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Sure. But you're still affected by the state or county politics in many ways. For example when they cut all mental health programs, ban gays, add the Flintstones to the biology curriculum, or whatever other nonsense they're up to.
It's difficult to gather useful information if you're just making stuff up. I am not sure what you think you are adding to the conversation besides signalling that you have disdain for the South.
(Not that there aren't bad things going on in the South to point to, but it's not especially unique in boneheaded and bigoted local governance.)
Oh I don't know:
http://www.care2.com/causes/south-carolina-lt-governor-compares-states-poor-to-stray-animals.html
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/08/20/2496741/columbia-criminalize-homeless/
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-north-carolina-lgbt-20160412-story.html
- Prop 8. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_%282008%29)
- Recent police murders of black people: Tamir Rice (Ohio), John Crawford (Ohio), Michael Brown (Missouri), Eric Garner (New York), etc.
- Southern Poverty Law Center hate map (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Number_of_hate_groups,_by_state,_per_million_inhabitants..png) (hate groups per capita -- note how prominently Vermont, New Hampshire, New Jersey, West Virginia, Montana and Idaho figure)
Bigotry against Southerners (stereotyping us as "rednecks" when we are, in fact, not) is bigotry too, you know.
The issue isn't the existence of racist or hate groups, it's whether this is accepted, and implemented, in mainstream politics. More often this happens in the south and midwest than on the coasts.
I know not everyone there is a redneck, but they have political influence in the south to a different degree than in the north. Heck, I can drive 45 from DC and be deep in redneck MD, with confederate flags and Cruz signs, but thankfully they don't drive state policy a whole lot.
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Sure. But you're still affected by the state or county politics in many ways. For example when they cut all mental health programs, ban gays, add the Flintstones to the biology curriculum, or whatever other nonsense they're up to.
It's difficult to gather useful information if you're just making stuff up. I am not sure what you think you are adding to the conversation besides signalling that you have disdain for the South.
(Not that there aren't bad things going on in the South to point to, but it's not especially unique in boneheaded and bigoted local governance.)
Oh I don't know:
http://www.care2.com/causes/south-carolina-lt-governor-compares-states-poor-to-stray-animals.html
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/08/20/2496741/columbia-criminalize-homeless/
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-north-carolina-lgbt-20160412-story.html
- Prop 8. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_%282008%29)
- Recent police murders of black people: Tamir Rice (Ohio), John Crawford (Ohio), Michael Brown (Missouri), Eric Garner (New York), etc.
- Southern Poverty Law Center hate map (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Number_of_hate_groups,_by_state,_per_million_inhabitants..png) (hate groups per capita -- note how prominently Vermont, New Hampshire, New Jersey, West Virginia, Montana and Idaho figure)
Bigotry against Southerners (stereotyping us as "rednecks" when we are, in fact, not) is bigotry too, you know.
The issue isn't the existence of racist or hate groups, it's whether this is accepted, and implemented, in mainstream politics. More often this happens in the south and midwest than on the coasts.
I know not everyone there is a redneck, but they have political influence in the south to a different degree than in the north. Heck, I can drive 45 from DC and be deep in redneck MD, with confederate flags and Cruz signs, but thankfully they don't drive state policy a whole lot.
I see more stars-and-bars in the rural Northeast than I ever did growing up in Dallas. Nobody is denying that bigotry exists in the South, and that it is frequently involved in government there. Our point is simply that the South is not that out of line with the rest of the country and that you have a very biased view of the South and Southerners. I've never seen people say "don't move to Chicago, it's a racist hole" but take a look at news stories about the police there and you'll check your search bar to make sure you didn't type in South Carolina.
Finding out what state Paul LePage is governor of is left as an exercise to the reader.
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I know not everyone there is a redneck, but they have political influence in the south to a different degree than in the north. Heck, I can drive 45 from DC and be deep in redneck MD, with confederate flags and Cruz signs, but thankfully they don't drive state policy a whole lot.
1. LOL, as if Maryland isn't part of the South (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mason%E2%80%93Dixon_line). Denial much?
2. In reality, all states are purple (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_America), but winner-take-all elections often mask that -- so that "different degree of political influence" might very well be the difference between 49% and 51%. Condemning 49% because they fall short of a majority through no fault of their own represents defective reasoning on your part.
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Denton TX (my home)
-college town: funky, always changing, lib for my taste but they do bring the fun.
-reasonable COL
-no state income tax
-2.x% property tax
-easy access to state parks to the North
-easy access to the big DFW area to the South
-hot in the summer (get a pool)
-cold and windy in winter, sometimes. Sometimes it's 70 and sunny for Christmas.
-don't know about public schools.
Heh I was in Denton a couple of weeks ago, picking up my car from ATS (http://www.atsracing.net). You guys just had some massive hail come through, no?
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I know not everyone there is a redneck, but they have political influence in the south to a different degree than in the north. Heck, I can drive 45 from DC and be deep in redneck MD, with confederate flags and Cruz signs, but thankfully they don't drive state policy a whole lot.
1. LOL, as if Maryland isn't part of the South (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mason%E2%80%93Dixon_line). Denial much?
2. In reality, all states are purple (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_America), but winner-take-all elections often mask that -- so that "different degree of political influence" might very well be the difference between 49% and 51%. Condemning 49% because they fall short of a majority through no fault of their own represents defective reasoning on your part.
I don't remember condemning anyone, certainly not non-rednecks in the south. No need to take this personally if you're one them. I was talking about the 51%, not you.
There are just places that implement policies I don't like, generally socially conservative and/or rabid anti-government in nature (and I'm not super-progressive either). More often these are in the south/MW. But also in the north as you say, see Maine. That also means I wouldn't move there. I just said this was a concern, and used redneck as a shorthand. I want to like the Carolinas for example since it's cheap there, but then I read about the politics.. And also hot and humid.
I know MD is technically in the south, but politically very liberal due to Baltimore and DC suburbs. We have decently functional gov services (perhaps except Baltimore), gay marriage (before SCOTUS) , and decriminalized weed etc
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Thanks everyone for your recommendations! We will evaluate the options when we are ready to ER. Cheers!
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Gainesville Fl!
- Able to buy a 4 BR 2500 sq ft home under $300K Currently 20 homes on zillow that match your requirements
- Great public schools (9+/10 ratings) The city overall is rated a 7, but there are many schools rated 10
- Open minded/inclusive community, diverse Nothing like a college town to keep things very inclusive
- Not too cold/minimal snow. Ok with warm/hot/rain There were some flurries here one day in January and the whole town flipped out. It was amazing.
- Access to good public libraries and parks Yup
- State tax needs to be <=6% No state income tax, alachua county sales tax is 6.25%, close enough
- Less than 1 hour from outdoor activities Payne's Prairie, Ginny Springs...etc
- Less than two hours from a major airport You are less than 2 hours from 3 major airports (Tampa, Jacksonville, Orlando)
Downsides, our governor is less than spectacular, ocasional hurricanes, college students
I'll second the Gainesville recommendation... lived there for 7 years (undergrad and vet school) and still have a number of friends in the area. Miss the abundance of nearby hiking/biking trails (San Felasco, Devil's Millhopper, Payne's Praire, etc) and plentiful nearby daytrips (Cedar Key crabbing daytrips were my favorite, with Anastasia State Park a close second).
Love Gainesville.
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Gainesville Fl!
- Able to buy a 4 BR 2500 sq ft home under $300K Currently 20 homes on zillow that match your requirements
- Great public schools (9+/10 ratings) The city overall is rated a 7, but there are many schools rated 10
- Open minded/inclusive community, diverse Nothing like a college town to keep things very inclusive
- Not too cold/minimal snow. Ok with warm/hot/rain There were some flurries here one day in January and the whole town flipped out. It was amazing.
- Access to good public libraries and parks Yup
- State tax needs to be <=6% No state income tax, alachua county sales tax is 6.25%, close enough
- Less than 1 hour from outdoor activities Payne's Prairie, Ginny Springs...etc
- Less than two hours from a major airport You are less than 2 hours from 3 major airports (Tampa, Jacksonville, Orlando)
Downsides, our governor is less than spectacular, ocasional hurricanes, college students
I'll second the Gainesville recommendation... lived there for 7 years (undergrad and vet school) and still have a number of friends in the area. Miss the abundance of nearby hiking/biking trails (San Felasco, Devil's Millhopper, Payne's Praire, etc) and plentiful nearby daytrips (Cedar Key crabbing daytrips were my favorite, with Anastasia State Park a close second).
Love Gainesville.
Plus you have PUBLIX!
I love Publix (also lived in Gainesville/area for 6 years).
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Plus you have PUBLIX!
I love Publix (also lived in Gainesville/area for 6 years).
Atlanta has Publix too (but several other grocery stores -- Aldi, Costco, even Kroger -- are better and/or more Mustachian).
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Plus you have PUBLIX!
I love Publix (also lived in Gainesville/area for 6 years).
Atlanta has Publix too (but several other grocery stores -- Aldi, Costco, even Kroger -- are better and/or more Mustachian).
Maybe more Mustachian but I have never been to a grocery store that was as good as Publix.
Aldi doesn't even compare to the shadow of Publix...at least not the one I've found here in NJ.
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Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex. Lots of places to choose from to live, lots of libraries, lots of things to do, and no state income tax.
Also, second the Bentonville/Rogers area. It is quite lovely and I believe the Bentonville schools are quite good and have a lot of funding.
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Come to Richmond! If you live in Chesterfield County you'll get very good schools and it fits all your other criteria. It also has Aldi and is getting the first of two Wegmans next month. And in 2018? Richmond will have Publix.
/drops mike
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We currently live in Pacific Northwest, which is a great location to raise a family with good jobs around. However, it is a pretty expensive place in comparison to many places in the US. Once we ER, we would like to move to a different city in the US that meets the following criteria:
- Able to buy a 4 BR 2500 sq ft home under $300K
- Great public schools (9+/10 ratings)
- Open minded/inclusive community, diverse
- Not too cold/minimal snow. Ok with warm/hot/rain
- Access to good public libraries and parks
- State tax needs to be <=6%
- Less than 1 hour from outdoor activities
- Less than two hours from a major airport
Appreciate any recommendations of the towns for us after ER. Thanks.
Problem is that low cost and cheap housing is often reversely correlated with good schools, libraries and public services in general. And often to "inclusiveness" too, by which I assume general redneck attitudes.. I'm sure there are many lovely places in the south, but looking into the politics of those areas not many places I'd want to live.
You realize that $300k for a house lets you take your pick of school district in most of the country, right?
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It's easy to claim to be tolerant of differences when the population is actually homogeneous, but if a bunch of dissimilar people started showing up in <insert small midwestern town here> you might be surprised how badly the incumbent population reacts.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I've lived in the south my whole life, and still haven't seen a blatant display of racism.
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It's easy to claim to be tolerant of differences when the population is actually homogeneous, but if a bunch of dissimilar people started showing up in <insert small midwestern town here> you might be surprised how badly the incumbent population reacts.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I've lived in the south my whole life, and still haven't seen a blatant display of racism.
It might be that you can't see what you were born and raised to swim in?
I had one aunt who was born and raised in Wisconsin (not exactly a hotbed of racial diversity and acceptance) who moved to Fayetteville Arkansas. She loved the area, and stayed for about 15 years, but she constantly talked about how shocking the blatant racism was. Same thing with my sister, born and raised in (definitely redneck and racist, but more on the 'down low') far northern Wisconsin. She fell in love with the Richmond/Willliamsburg area of Virginia on a visit, moved there and has been living there more than 10 years. She regularly comments on how appallingly and blatantly racist a lot of the people are.
Note that I myself would happily consider moving to either of these areas from where I currently live, because of some of the great amenities they offer. But racial and cultural tolerance would not be on my list of expectations if I moved to either place. Whereas, the city I currently live in (and don't care for) doesn't have notably blatant racism. Instead, there is nustso religious and political conservatism everywhere, which depresses me.
There's problems everywhere. No good pretending they don't exist, and when you move, prepare yourself to deal with whatever set of problems will be most problematic to your daily life in that location.
ETA for OP: I also am a fan of Tucson (although full disclosure, I haven't lived there in nearly 20 years YIKES, so things might have changed somewhat)
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Plus you have PUBLIX!
I love Publix (also lived in Gainesville/area for 6 years).
Atlanta has Publix too (but several other grocery stores -- Aldi, Costco, even Kroger -- are better and/or more Mustachian).
Well, in addition to Publix (First of its Name, King of All Grocery Stores, Master of Fried Chicken, Protector of the BOGO, Lord of the Subs), Gainesville has a Lucky's, Fresh Market, Trader Joe's, Earth Fare and we're getting a 365 by Whole Foods and two Aldi's. Also super walmart and Sam's Club.
I've never heard of Lucky's, but we've got all those other ones in Atlanta too. Also, Sprouts (which might become my new favorite if the rumors that one will be going in 1.5 miles from my house turn out to be true).
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And often to "inclusiveness" too, by which I assume general redneck attitudes.. I'm sure there are many lovely places in the south, but looking into the politics of those areas not many places I'd want to live.
I'll let you in on a secret: being in the South doesn't make people racist or conservative. The only reason the South appears that way is that being rural correlates with being racist or conservative, and the South tends to have a higher rural/urban population ratio than the rest of the country.
In other words, the bigger the city you pick, the more you'll like the politics, and conversely, the more rural area you pick the less you'll like the politics -- regardless of which state the location is in.
In fact, I'd go so far as to say that, because the South has a more diverse population than other places (e.g. the rural Midwest (http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/04/mapping-racial-diversity-by-county/361388/), especially WV/OH/PA Appalachia), we've learned to deal with multiculturalism better than those other places. It's easy to claim to be tolerant of differences when the population is actually homogeneous, but if a bunch of dissimilar people started showing up in <insert small midwestern town here> you might be surprised how badly the incumbent population reacts.
I think it's more than being rural. That's part of it. But there is a strong cultural aspect that is different in the south, and especially with respect to racial relations. Racism still exists elsewhere, but has a special history in the south. Other aspects of inclusiveness (say attitudes towards gays or Muslims) may be more correlated with religious views--which the south is also known for (the "Bible Belt"). I live in the Atlanta area. My next door neighbor said something openly racist in casual conversation. I'd never heard that kind of thing before. But you certainly have people all over the country who have prejudicial views about blacks (it's hard not to given our context of the media, etc, that fuel the prejudices), whether they realize their prejudice or not, and whether it's an overtly expressed prejudice or not.
Racism in the south is different in ways than elsewhere. You still have racism in Chicago or South Central or Cleveland or Oakland. It's a different flavor though.
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YMMV. I hear openly racist things pretty frequently in the North.
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We currently live in Pacific Northwest, which is a great location to raise a family with good jobs around. However, it is a pretty expensive place in comparison to many places in the US. Once we ER, we would like to move to a different city in the US that meets the following criteria:
- Able to buy a 4 BR 2500 sq ft home under $300K
- Great public schools (9+/10 ratings)
- Open minded/inclusive community, diverse
- Not too cold/minimal snow. Ok with warm/hot/rain
- Access to good public libraries and parks
- State tax needs to be <=6%
- Less than 1 hour from outdoor activities
- Less than two hours from a major airport
Appreciate any recommendations of the towns for us after ER. Thanks.
Problem is that low cost and cheap housing is often reversely correlated with good schools, libraries and public services in general. And often to "inclusiveness" too, by which I assume general redneck attitudes.. I'm sure there are many lovely places in the south, but looking into the politics of those areas not many places I'd want to live.
You realize that $300k for a house lets you take your pick of school district in most of the country, right?
It does? Guess I don't live in most of the county then (totally possible, we have several on the "rich zip codes" list around)
We have good schools, but our house is $400k and smaller than OP wants. Most are more. Have friends outside Philly who moved to a much smaller house to get good schools, probably upper $400s. At least in the I-95 corridor that seems to be the price you pay. But yeah, these are the most expensive areas outside CA
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It does? Guess I don't live in most of the county then (totally possible, we have several on the "rich zip codes" list around)
We have good schools, but our house is $400k and smaller than OP wants. Most are more. Have friends outside Philly who moved to a much smaller house to get good schools, probably upper $400s. At least in the I-95 corridor that seems to be the price you pay. But yeah, these are the most expensive areas outside CA
A good arbitrary rule of thumb I use is that if you are more than 100 miles from any ocean, your costs of living will be considerably lower (particularly for housing). Philly is only ~60 miles from the Atlantic.
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Come to Richmond! If you live in Chesterfield County you'll get very good schools and it fits all your other criteria. It also has Aldi and is getting the first of two Wegmans next month. And in 2018? Richmond will have Publix.
/drops mike
I know this is an old thread, but @MandalayVA what part of Chesterfield County are you in, if you don't mind me asking? We're moving to Richmond this summer, my husband is hot on the trendy (and pricey) West End area but I'd love to consider other options :)
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Don't judge schools just based on their 1-10 ratings. I'm still trying to figure out how a good Metro Detroit HS was rated a 2 a few months ago, FWIW it is now rated and 8 a few years ago it was a 6. The school rating seem to take a snap shot of test scores at one time only so it is very dependent on the current "testing class."
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Come to Richmond! If you live in Chesterfield County you'll get very good schools and it fits all your other criteria. It also has Aldi and is getting the first of two Wegmans next month. And in 2018? Richmond will have Publix.
/drops mike
I know this is an old thread, but @MandalayVA what part of Chesterfield County are you in, if you don't mind me asking? We're moving to Richmond this summer, my husband is hot on the trendy (and pricey) West End area but I'd love to consider other options :)
I moved to Orlando last summer, but I'll be glad to help you out! We lived in what's called North Chesterfield, which is roughly twenty minutes southwest of downtown Richmond (zip 23236). This is very near Midlothian, where there's a ton of shopping, including the aforementioned Wegmans. We lived in Midlothian when we first got to the area back in 2000. As I wrote previously the school system is very good (don't believe the Realtor.com scores) and there's a wide range of real estate available, including new construction.
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PTF
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Roswell, Johns Creek, Alpharetta, Georgia. While some of it can be pricey, there are major pockets of cheaper housing if you look carefully.
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Corvallis, Oregon. Check it out on Wikipedia. It's small and they keep big chains OUT. Bike lanes on every major street... it's a dream.
I know this is an old thread but...
House prices in Corvallis are outrageous. And they will probably only go up from here. While it is a lovely place to live, unless you can find a way around that I think better alternatives exist.
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How about Athens, Georgia? Heard only good things. Anyone know it well?
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Suburbs of Iowa City? (Tax rate could be over 6% depending on income). Snow but not too much.
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Ok. As a half black, native West African who lives in Florida, I have to stick up for rednecks. Many “rednecks” I know or who live around, are hard working and helpful people. Most rednecks are genetically incapable of passing by a stranded car on the side of the road; you could be a multinational gay cabaret with NY license plates and they will help. They might make ignorant jokes at your expense, and will talk shit about you around town after, but they are a simple and non-vindictive people. Some of them share mustachian traits, are frugal, resourceful and might be secretly wealthy. Also, don’t get rednecks twisted with “white/trailor trash”. Many rednecks own houses and large properties, and a whole fleet of various vehicles.
I’ve met some of the nicest, most chivalrous men, when I lived in Tallahassee for college. Tilt their hats and say “good evening ma’am”, to a young black woman. Offer to walk you to your car. Teach you to line dance. And rednecks know how to freakin have fun. 2 of my roommates were FL rednecks and they were forever camping, fishing, mudding, bull froggin’ (yeah, it’s a thing). If you have a sense of humor, and are a genuine person, most will respect you no matter your background.
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- Great public schools (9+/10 ratings)
- Open minded/inclusive community, diverse
I am curious about your definition of "diverse." As has already been mentioned, the great schools metric is probably going to be at odds with diversity, if that includes economic or racial diversity. Anecdotally, most instances of people I've met who are really hot on "good schools" are using that metric as code for, or justification of, lack of diversity.
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I've gotta second (third?) the Gainesville recommendation. I lived there for about 7 years and absolutely loved it. I currently live in Richmond, VA and dislike it quite a bit (it's very segregated here, it can snow quite a bit, and many more reasons I'm grumpy about living here). Gainesville fits the diversity quota for sure, as well as many of your other requirements. It's a lovely little place and very very bikeable (I can't ride anywhere here in VA without getting potholed or run off the road)
Gainesville Fl!
- Able to buy a 4 BR 2500 sq ft home under $300K Currently 20 homes on zillow that match your requirements
- Great public schools (9+/10 ratings) The city overall is rated a 7, but there are many schools rated 10
- Open minded/inclusive community, diverse Nothing like a college town to keep things very inclusive
- Not too cold/minimal snow. Ok with warm/hot/rain There were some flurries here one day in January and the whole town flipped out. It was amazing.
- Access to good public libraries and parks Yup
- State tax needs to be <=6% No state income tax, alachua county sales tax is 6.25%, close enough
- Less than 1 hour from outdoor activities Payne's Prairie, Ginny Springs...etc
- Less than two hours from a major airport You are less than 2 hours from 3 major airports (Tampa, Jacksonville, Orlando)
Downsides, our governor is less than spectacular, ocasional hurricanes, college students
I'll second the Gainesville recommendation... lived there for 7 years (undergrad and vet school) and still have a number of friends in the area. Miss the abundance of nearby hiking/biking trails (San Felasco, Devil's Millhopper, Payne's Praire, etc) and plentiful nearby daytrips (Cedar Key crabbing daytrips were my favorite, with Anastasia State Park a close second).
Love Gainesville.
Plus you have PUBLIX!
I love Publix (also lived in Gainesville/area for 6 years).
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It's easy to claim to be tolerant of differences when the population is actually homogeneous, but if a bunch of dissimilar people started showing up in <insert small midwestern town here> you might be surprised how badly the incumbent population reacts.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I've lived in the south my whole life, and still haven't seen a blatant display of racism.
It might be that you can't see what you were born and raised to swim in?
I had one aunt who was born and raised in Wisconsin (not exactly a hotbed of racial diversity and acceptance) who moved to Fayetteville Arkansas. She loved the area, and stayed for about 15 years, but she constantly talked about how shocking the blatant racism was. Same thing with my sister, born and raised in (definitely redneck and racist, but more on the 'down low') far northern Wisconsin. She fell in love with the Richmond/Willliamsburg area of Virginia on a visit, moved there and has been living there more than 10 years. She regularly comments on how appallingly and blatantly racist a lot of the people are.
Note that I myself would happily consider moving to either of these areas from where I currently live, because of some of the great amenities they offer. But racial and cultural tolerance would not be on my list of expectations if I moved to either place. Whereas, the city I currently live in (and don't care for) doesn't have notably blatant racism. Instead, there is nustso religious and political conservatism everywhere, which depresses me.
There's problems everywhere. No good pretending they don't exist, and when you move, prepare yourself to deal with whatever set of problems will be most problematic to your daily life in that location.
ETA for OP: I also am a fan of Tucson (although full disclosure, I haven't lived there in nearly 20 years YIKES, so things might have changed somewhat)
I agree with most of this. To add to the thought "It might be that you can't see what you were born and raised to swim in?" I would also add that you're a lot more likely to see what you want to see or are looking for.
I grew up in Chattanooga, TN, and now live in Nashville, although I went to college in another area of the country and have lived all over the world. During a several-year stay in NYC, I think I heard about three times as much blatant racism as I've ever heard in the South -- for example, a cop (with a gun and the power to arrest people of all races and creeds) who told me that he'd be careful in my neighborhood because there was a high school there where they, "bus the n****** in from all over Brooklyn." Again -- just one small example. There were some fairly egregious and much more systemic issues also.
Given this, I was always amused by other transplants like myself who would rail on the South and how horrible and benighted it was -- many of whom had never been there. Because of this, I had a vested interest in looking for examples of racism in NYC in order to defend my home region, and there were plenty of them to see. By contrast, a fair number of my fellow 20-something-creative-progressive-moving-on-from-the-hometown-to-the-big-city types were themselves really invested in seeing NYC as some sort of enlightened, inclusivist paradise because that narrative bolstered their own sense of identity. As a result, they would gloss over the racism they saw (if they noticed it at all) as an aberration.
All that said, my advice would be to go and actually visit a place before you rule it out. In my case, our state legislature cooks up all kinds of horrible bills every year that (to me) are about as backwards/rednecky/intolerant as you can get. MY city (Nashville), however, is much more liberal than a lot of the state, and my particular neighborhood in Nashville (East Nashville) is significantly more liberal than Nashville as a whole. Not that I'm inclined, but if I made a racist or homophobic statement in public, I'd probably get run out of town.
So think for yourself, and also consider your own biases before you come to definite conclusions about places or types of people.
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Asheville, NC
Are you kidding!? I live there now and it is no where near affordable. A 4 BR 2500 sq ft home will run you like $600k, and the schools are "meh". However, the limitless adventure is amazing which is the reason why we moved here!
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https://www.thebalance.com/states-with-lowest-cost-of-living-4137935
Also what counts as "not too cold and minimal snow"? I would consider less than 30 days a year below 10F [-14 C] and less than 36" of snow a year yo fit those criteria. You might not agree.
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Thanks everyone for the feedback!
+1 for this. Southern college towns. low tax states, good schools(the immediate ones anyways), and obviously inclusive.
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PTF
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Someone mentioned Northern Nevada but housing prices have skyrocketed . A 1400 sq ft 1950’s ranch is selling for 350k. There is also a housing shortage. All your other criteria is met except for sales tax. However, property taxes are dirt cheap.
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If you don't have to make a living, college towns win
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Thanks everyone for the feedback!
+1 for this. Southern college towns. low tax states, good schools(the immediate ones anyways), and obviously inclusive.
Many southern college town are not very inclusive. I'd have a hard time describing the university town I went to school in that way. :(
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How big was the university? I've lived in two different towns in the southeast with the largest state university, they were pretty progressive.
Demographics do tend to be more higher education oriented, white first, then asian, then other racial makeups
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I vote for Athens, Georgia. Checked it out thoroughly, house prices, progressive folks, good indy bookstores and public libraries. University of Georgia Museum of Art. However, Mr. Piano had his heart set on Toronto. He was right for the reasons that were important to him. This was before we were even engaged, and he made it clear that we would not be marrying if he had to live in Georgia.
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I vote for Athens, Georgia. Checked it out thoroughly, house prices, progressive folks, good indy bookstores and public libraries. University of Georgia Museum of Art. However, Mr. Piano had his heart set on Toronto. He was right for the reasons that were important to him. This was before we were even engaged, and he made it clear that we would not be marrying if he had to live in Georgia.
Must be a Mapleleafs fan
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How big was the university? I've lived in two different towns in the southeast with the largest state university, they were pretty progressive.
Demographics do tend to be more higher education oriented, white first, then asian, then other racial makeups
About 50,000 undergraduates?
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Gainesville Fl!
- Able to buy a 4 BR 2500 sq ft home under $300K Currently 20 homes on zillow that match your requirements
- Great public schools (9+/10 ratings) The city overall is rated a 7, but there are many schools rated 10
- Open minded/inclusive community, diverse Nothing like a college town to keep things very inclusive
- Not too cold/minimal snow. Ok with warm/hot/rain There were some flurries here one day in January and the whole town flipped out. It was amazing.
- Access to good public libraries and parks Yup
- State tax needs to be <=6% No state income tax, alachua county sales tax is 6.25%, close enough
- Less than 1 hour from outdoor activities Payne's Prairie, Ginny Springs...etc
- Less than two hours from a major airport You are less than 2 hours from 3 major airports (Tampa, Jacksonville, Orlando)
Downsides, our governor is less than spectacular, ocasional hurricanes, college students
Seconded. I lived in Gainesville for over 20 years until May of this year. Fits all your boxes, and many people don't know, but the university of Florida ranks as the 8th best public university in the US. It also has one of the lowest in state student tuition bills, so definitely worth it if your kids can get in.
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Port Angeles, WA. Very affordable still. Endless outdoor options. Beautiful and very friendly town with an active art community and a year round farmer's market. It's also in a rain shadow so only gets 25 inches of rain a year and rarely snows. However, it lacks diversity.
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Ok. As a half black, native West African who lives in Florida, I have to stick up for rednecks. Many “rednecks” I know or who live around, are hard working and helpful people. Most rednecks are genetically incapable of passing by a stranded car on the side of the road; you could be a multinational gay cabaret with NY license plates and they will help. They might make ignorant jokes at your expense, and will talk shit about you around town after, but they are a simple and non-vindictive people. Some of them share mustachian traits, are frugal, resourceful and might be secretly wealthy. Also, don’t get rednecks twisted with “white/trailor trash”. Many rednecks own houses and large properties, and a whole fleet of various vehicles.
I’ve met some of the nicest, most chivalrous men, when I lived in Tallahassee for college. Tilt their hats and say “good evening ma’am”, to a young black woman. Offer to walk you to your car. Teach you to line dance. And rednecks know how to freakin have fun. 2 of my roommates were FL rednecks and they were forever camping, fishing, mudding, bull froggin’ (yeah, it’s a thing). If you have a sense of humor, and are a genuine person, most will respect you no matter your background.
This is called Southern Hospitality, where they are openly very nice, kind, and welcoming to you, but inside, they feel something different about you. Not everyone, mind you, is this way, but a small percentage of those that spoke to you so kindly, probably felt different inside.
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Asheville, NC
Are you kidding!? I live there now and it is no where near affordable. A 4 BR 2500 sq ft home will run you like $600k, and the schools are "meh". However, the limitless adventure is amazing which is the reason why we moved here!
No kidding! It's a lovely town, but not even close to affordable these days.
Greenville SC is coming along nicely. You're still surrounded by dumb rednecks and represented by Lindsey Fucking Graham, but there's a lot to do and you're not far from the same kinds of outdoor activities. I've heard it referred to as "Asheville if it put down the bong and got a real job." ;)
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Problem is that low cost and cheap housing is often reversely correlated with good schools, libraries and public services in general. And often to "inclusiveness" too, by which I assume general redneck attitudes.. I'm sure there are many lovely places in the south, but looking into the politics of those areas not many places I'd want to live.
Thank you, keep telling all of your narrow minded friends too.
This is called Southern Hospitality, where they are openly very nice, kind, and welcoming to you, but inside, they feel something different about you. Not everyone, mind you, is this way, but a small percentage of those that spoke to you so kindly, probably felt different inside.
The genuine kindness that she encountered is what Southern Hospitality is. The rest of what you typed is... well, bullshit. The showing one thing and feeling the other on the inside thing... Yeah that's some HUMANS (as in this is something that people of all kinds from all over the world do), not constrained to 'some people in the south'.
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Problem is that low cost and cheap housing is often reversely correlated with good schools, libraries and public services in general. And often to "inclusiveness" too, by which I assume general redneck attitudes.. I'm sure there are many lovely places in the south, but looking into the politics of those areas not many places I'd want to live.
Thank you, keep telling all of your narrow minded friends too.
This is called Southern Hospitality, where they are openly very nice, kind, and welcoming to you, but inside, they feel something different about you. Not everyone, mind you, is this way, but a small percentage of those that spoke to you so kindly, probably felt different inside.
The genuine kindness that she encountered is what Southern Hospitality is. The rest of what you typed is... well, bullshit. The showing one thing and feeling the other on the inside thing... Yeah that's some HUMANS (as in this is something that people of all kinds from all over the world do), not constrained to 'some people in the south'.
Yes I'm narrow minded. Yet the state I live in doesn't shut down 90% of polling places in black neighborhoods. Or vote for a pedofile for congress. Strange.
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Ok. As a half black, native West African who lives in Florida, I have to stick up for rednecks. Many “rednecks” I know or who live around, are hard working and helpful people. Most rednecks are genetically incapable of passing by a stranded car on the side of the road; you could be a multinational gay cabaret with NY license plates and they will help. They might make ignorant jokes at your expense, and will talk shit about you around town after, but they are a simple and non-vindictive people. Some of them share mustachian traits, are frugal, resourceful and might be secretly wealthy. Also, don’t get rednecks twisted with “white/trailor trash”. Many rednecks own houses and large properties, and a whole fleet of various vehicles.
I’ve met some of the nicest, most chivalrous men, when I lived in Tallahassee for college. Tilt their hats and say “good evening ma’am”, to a young black woman. Offer to walk you to your car. Teach you to line dance. And rednecks know how to freakin have fun. 2 of my roommates were FL rednecks and they were forever camping, fishing, mudding, bull froggin’ (yeah, it’s a thing). If you have a sense of humor, and are a genuine person, most will respect you no matter your background.
This is called Southern Hospitality, where they are openly very nice, kind, and welcoming to you, but inside, they feel something different about you. Not everyone, mind you, is this way, but a small percentage of those that spoke to you so kindly, probably felt different inside.
"Bless your heart!" ;)
Also, the sense of chivalry that Lmoot noted is likely to further blunt the experience of racism for a female POC, as compared to a male POC.
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Reading this board almost constantly reminds me it is best to stay in my little corner of the world.
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Since this is a zombie thread, I would be curious to see what the OP decided.
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Ok. As a half black, native West African who lives in Florida, I have to stick up for rednecks. Many “rednecks” I know or who live around, are hard working and helpful people. Most rednecks are genetically incapable of passing by a stranded car on the side of the road; you could be a multinational gay cabaret with NY license plates and they will help. They might make ignorant jokes at your expense, and will talk shit about you around town after, but they are a simple and non-vindictive people. Some of them share mustachian traits, are frugal, resourceful and might be secretly wealthy. Also, don’t get rednecks twisted with “white/trailor trash”. Many rednecks own houses and large properties, and a whole fleet of various vehicles.
I’ve met some of the nicest, most chivalrous men, when I lived in Tallahassee for college. Tilt their hats and say “good evening ma’am”, to a young black woman. Offer to walk you to your car. Teach you to line dance. And rednecks know how to freakin have fun. 2 of my roommates were FL rednecks and they were forever camping, fishing, mudding, bull froggin’ (yeah, it’s a thing). If you have a sense of humor, and are a genuine person, most will respect you no matter your background.
This is called Southern Hospitality, where they are openly very nice, kind, and welcoming to you, but inside, they feel something different about you. Not everyone, mind you, is this way, but a small percentage of those that spoke to you so kindly, probably felt different inside.
"Bless your heart!" ;)
Also, the sense of chivalry that Lmoot noted is likely to further blunt the experience of racism for a female POC, as compared to a male POC.
Yep, good points to both of you. Although I find that white southerners and black southerners can have a lot in common, in terms of upbringing and general likes and dislikes. It's common in the south to have mixed raced entourages and gatherings (in areas where there are black southern/country population).
Now I'm thinking of moving to North Georgia (Blue Ridge/ Ellijay region) because I want to stay closer to family in FL, but want to escape the heat and try something new, and be near mountains. But I'm concerned because there isn't the racial mix that there is in other southern parts. Plus I know my way around rednecks, but Appalacian hillbilly is a different thing for me.
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Yep, good points to both of you. Although I find that white southerners and black southerners can have a lot in common, in terms of upbringing and general likes and dislikes. It's common in the south to have mixed raced entourages and gatherings (in areas where there are black southern/country population).
Now I'm thinking of moving to North Georgia (Blue Ridge/ Ellijay region) because I want to stay closer to family in FL, but want to escape the heat and try something new, and be near mountains. But I'm concerned because there isn't the racial mix that there is in other southern parts. Plus I know my way around rednecks, but Appalacian hillbilly is a different thing for me.
NE Georgia is a little different. I am not sure where in GA the border is between southern gentile and hillbilly(or whatever), I could tell you to a town where it is in SC. Then again if you can get into the mountain areas it is rich, snobby white people and trust fund hippies but also expensive.
I generally enjoy all of it for a visit, but like living where I do.
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Look at Apex, NC (closer to Triangle). A lot of employers are present around that area (20 miles radius) and housing market started blooming.
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Since this is a zombie thread, I would be curious to see what the OP decided.
Yes, this is a zombie thread. From the last post in December it looks like the decision was to stay put.
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/status-quo-or-new-jobs/msg1794059/#msg1794059
OP, if you read this, I don't see why you couldn't easily FIRE where you're at.