Inexpensive Inclusive Towns in the US

[Scandium]

We currently live in Pacific Northwest, which is a great location to raise a family with good jobs around. However, it is a pretty expensive place in comparison to many places in the US. Once we ER, we would like to move to a different city in the US that meets the following criteria:

- Able to buy a 4 BR 2500 sq ft home under $300K
- Great public schools (9+/10 ratings)
- Open minded/inclusive community, diverse
- Not too cold/minimal snow. Ok with warm/hot/rain
- Access to good public libraries and parks
- State tax needs to be <=6%
- Less than 1 hour from outdoor activities
- Less than two hours from a major airport

Appreciate any recommendations of the towns for us after ER. Thanks.

Problem is that low cost and cheap housing is often reversely correlated with good schools, libraries and public services in general. And often to "inclusiveness" too, by which I assume general redneck attitudes.. I'm sure there are many lovely places in the south, but looking into the politics of those areas not many places I'd want to live.

You realize that $300k for a house lets you take your pick of school district in most of the country, right?

It does? Guess I don't live in most of the county then (totally possible, we have several on the "rich zip codes" list around)

We have good schools, but our house is $400k and smaller than OP wants. Most are more. Have friends outside Philly who moved to a much smaller house to get good schools, probably upper $400s. At least in the I-95 corridor that seems to be the price you pay. But yeah, these are the most expensive areas outside CA

[ender]

It does? Guess I don't live in most of the county then (totally possible, we have several on the "rich zip codes" list around)

We have good schools, but our house is $400k and smaller than OP wants. Most are more. Have friends outside Philly who moved to a much smaller house to get good schools, probably upper $400s. At least in the I-95 corridor that seems to be the price you pay. But yeah, these are the most expensive areas outside CA

A good arbitrary rule of thumb I use is that if you are more than 100 miles from any ocean, your costs of living will be considerably lower (particularly for housing). Philly is only ~60 miles from the Atlantic.

[HovEratoTo]

Come to Richmond!  If you live in Chesterfield County you'll get very good schools and it fits all your other criteria.  It also has Aldi and is getting the first of two Wegmans next month.  And in 2018?  Richmond will have Publix.

/drops mike

I know this is an old thread, but @MandalayVA what part of Chesterfield County are you in, if you don't mind me asking? We're moving to Richmond this summer, my husband is hot on the trendy (and pricey) West End area but I'd love to consider other options :)

[Fomerly known as something]

Don't judge schools just based on their 1-10 ratings.  I'm still trying to figure out how a good Metro Detroit HS was rated a 2 a few months ago, FWIW it is now rated and 8 a few years ago it was a 6.  The school rating seem to take a snap shot of test scores at one time only so it is very dependent on the current "testing class."

[MandalayVA]

Come to Richmond!  If you live in Chesterfield County you'll get very good schools and it fits all your other criteria.  It also has Aldi and is getting the first of two Wegmans next month.  And in 2018?  Richmond will have Publix.

/drops mike

I know this is an old thread, but @MandalayVA what part of Chesterfield County are you in, if you don't mind me asking? We're moving to Richmond this summer, my husband is hot on the trendy (and pricey) West End area but I'd love to consider other options :)

I moved to Orlando last summer, but I'll be glad to help you out!  We lived in what's called North Chesterfield, which is roughly twenty minutes southwest of downtown Richmond (zip 23236).  This is very near Midlothian, where there's a ton of shopping, including the aforementioned Wegmans.  We lived in Midlothian when we first got to the area back in 2000.  As I wrote previously the school system is very good (don't believe the Realtor.com scores) and there's a wide range of real estate available, including new construction. 

[JustGettingStarted1980]

PTF

[CupcakeGuru]

Roswell, Johns Creek, Alpharetta, Georgia. While some of it can be pricey, there are major pockets of cheaper housing if you look carefully.

[Mountainbug]

Corvallis, Oregon. Check it out on Wikipedia. It's small and they keep big chains OUT. Bike lanes on every major street... it's a dream.

I know this is an old thread but...
House prices in Corvallis are outrageous. And they will probably only go up from here. While it is a lovely place to live, unless you can find a way around that I think better alternatives exist.

[JustGettingStarted1980]

How about Athens, Georgia? Heard only good things. Anyone know it well?

[I'm a red panda]

Suburbs of Iowa City? (Tax rate could be over 6% depending on income). Snow but not too much.

[Lmoot]

Ok. As a half black, native West African who lives in Florida, I have to stick up for rednecks. Many “rednecks” I know or who live around, are hard working and helpful people. Most rednecks are genetically incapable of passing by a stranded car on the side of the road; you could be a multinational gay cabaret with NY license plates and they will help. They might make ignorant jokes at your expense, and will talk shit about you around town after, but they are a simple and non-vindictive people. Some of them share mustachian traits, are frugal, resourceful and might be secretly wealthy. Also, don’t get rednecks twisted with “white/trailor trash”. Many rednecks own houses and large properties, and a whole fleet of various vehicles.

I’ve met some of the nicest, most chivalrous men, when I lived in Tallahassee for college. Tilt their hats and say “good evening ma’am”, to a young black woman. Offer to walk you to your car. Teach you to line dance. And rednecks know how to freakin have fun. 2 of my roommates were FL rednecks and they were forever camping, fishing, mudding, bull froggin’ (yeah, it’s a thing). If you have a sense of humor, and are a genuine person, most will respect you no matter your background.

[FIence!]

- Great public schools (9+/10 ratings)
- Open minded/inclusive community, diverse

I am curious about your definition of "diverse." As has already been mentioned, the great schools metric is probably going to be at odds with diversity, if that includes economic or racial diversity. Anecdotally, most instances of people I've met who are really hot on "good schools" are using that metric as code for, or justification of, lack of diversity.

[JanetJackson]

I've gotta second (third?) the Gainesville recommendation.  I lived there for about 7 years and absolutely loved it.  I currently live in Richmond, VA and dislike it quite a bit (it's very segregated here, it can snow quite a bit, and many more reasons I'm grumpy about living here).  Gainesville fits the diversity quota for sure, as well as many of your other requirements.  It's a lovely little place and very very bikeable (I can't ride anywhere here in VA without getting potholed or run off the road)

Gainesville Fl!
- Able to buy a 4 BR 2500 sq ft home under $300K Currently 20 homes on zillow that match your requirements
- Great public schools (9+/10 ratings) The city overall is rated a 7, but there are many schools rated 10
- Open minded/inclusive community, diverse Nothing like a college town to keep things very inclusive
- Not too cold/minimal snow. Ok with warm/hot/rain There were some flurries here one day in January and the whole town flipped out. It was amazing.
- Access to good public libraries and parks Yup
- State tax needs to be <=6%  No state income tax, alachua county sales tax is 6.25%, close enough
- Less than 1 hour from outdoor activities Payne's Prairie, Ginny Springs...etc
- Less than two hours from a major airport You are less than 2 hours from 3 major airports (Tampa, Jacksonville, Orlando)

Downsides, our governor is less than spectacular, ocasional hurricanes, college students

I'll second the Gainesville recommendation... lived there for 7 years (undergrad and vet school) and still have a number of friends in the area. Miss the abundance of nearby hiking/biking trails (San Felasco, Devil's Millhopper, Payne's Praire, etc) and plentiful nearby daytrips (Cedar Key crabbing daytrips were my favorite, with Anastasia State Park a close second).

Love Gainesville.

Plus you have PUBLIX!

I love Publix (also lived in Gainesville/area for 6 years).

[pigpen]

It's easy to claim to be tolerant of differences when the population is actually homogeneous, but if a bunch of dissimilar people started showing up in <insert small midwestern town here> you might be surprised how badly the incumbent population reacts.

Couldn't have said it better myself.  I've lived in the south my whole life, and still haven't seen a blatant display of racism.

It might be that you can't see what you were born and raised to swim in?

I had one aunt who was born and raised in Wisconsin (not exactly a hotbed of racial diversity and acceptance) who moved to Fayetteville Arkansas. She loved the area, and stayed for about 15 years, but she constantly talked about how shocking the blatant racism was. Same thing with my sister, born and raised in (definitely redneck and racist, but more on the 'down low') far northern Wisconsin. She fell in love with the Richmond/Willliamsburg area of Virginia on a visit, moved there and has been living there more than 10 years. She regularly comments on how appallingly and blatantly racist a lot of the people are.

Note that I myself would happily consider moving to either of these areas from where I currently live, because of some of the great amenities they offer. But racial and cultural tolerance would not be on my list of expectations if I moved to either place. Whereas, the city I currently live in (and don't care for) doesn't have notably blatant racism. Instead, there is nustso religious and political conservatism everywhere, which depresses me.

There's problems everywhere. No good pretending they don't exist, and when you move, prepare yourself to deal with whatever set of problems will be most problematic to your daily life in that location.

ETA for OP: I also am a fan of Tucson (although full disclosure, I haven't lived there in nearly 20 years YIKES, so things might have changed somewhat)

I agree with most of this. To add to the thought "It might be that you can't see what you were born and raised to swim in?" I would also add that you're a lot more likely to see what you want to see or are looking for.

I grew up in Chattanooga, TN, and now live in Nashville, although I went to college in another area of the country and have lived all over the world. During a several-year stay in NYC, I think I heard about three times as much blatant racism as I've ever heard in the South -- for example, a cop (with a gun and the power to arrest people of all races and creeds) who told me that he'd be careful in my neighborhood because there was a high school there where they, "bus the n****** in from all over Brooklyn." Again -- just one small example. There were some fairly egregious and much more systemic issues also.

Given this, I was always amused by other transplants like myself who would rail on the South and how horrible and benighted it was -- many of whom had never been there. Because of this, I had a vested interest in looking for examples of racism in NYC in order to defend my home region, and there were plenty of them to see. By contrast, a fair number of my fellow 20-something-creative-progressive-moving-on-from-the-hometown-to-the-big-city types were themselves really invested in seeing NYC as some sort of enlightened, inclusivist paradise because that narrative bolstered their own sense of identity. As a result, they would gloss over the racism they saw (if they noticed it at all) as an aberration.

All that said, my advice would be to go and actually visit a place before you rule it out. In my case, our state legislature cooks up all kinds of horrible bills every year that (to me) are about as backwards/rednecky/intolerant as you can get. MY city (Nashville), however, is much more liberal than a lot of the state, and my particular neighborhood in Nashville (East Nashville) is significantly more liberal than Nashville as a whole. Not that I'm inclined, but if I made a racist or homophobic statement in public, I'd probably get run out of town.

So think for yourself, and also consider your own biases before you come to definite conclusions about places or types of people.

[APBioSpartan]

Asheville, NC

Are you kidding!?  I live there now and it is no where near affordable.  A 4 BR 2500 sq ft home will run you like $600k, and the schools are "meh".  However, the limitless adventure is amazing which is the reason why we moved here!

[Anon in Alaska]

https://www.thebalance.com/states-with-lowest-cost-of-living-4137935

Also what counts as "not too cold and minimal snow"? I would consider less than 30 days a year below 10F [-14 C] and less than 36" of snow a year yo fit those criteria. You might not agree.

[hoping2retire35]

Thanks everyone for the feedback!

+1 for this. Southern college towns. low tax states, good schools(the immediate ones anyways), and obviously inclusive.

[JGS1980]

PTF

[Cassie]

Someone mentioned Northern Nevada but housing prices have skyrocketed .  A 1400 sq ft 1950’s ranch is selling for 350k. There is also a housing shortage. All your other criteria is met except for sales tax. However, property taxes are dirt cheap.

[chasesfish]

If you don't have to make a living, college towns win

[I'm a red panda]

Thanks everyone for the feedback!

+1 for this. Southern college towns. low tax states, good schools(the immediate ones anyways), and obviously inclusive.

Many southern college town are not very inclusive. I'd have a hard time describing the university town I went to school in that way. :(

[chasesfish]

How big was the university?   I've lived in two different towns in the southeast with the largest state university, they were pretty progressive.

Demographics do tend to be more higher education oriented, white first, then asian, then other racial makeups

[Mrs.Piano]

I vote for Athens, Georgia. Checked it out thoroughly, house prices, progressive folks, good indy bookstores and public libraries. University of Georgia Museum of Art. However, Mr. Piano had his heart set on Toronto. He was right for the reasons that were important to him. This was before we were even engaged, and he made it clear that we would not be marrying if he had to live in Georgia.

[JGS1980]

I vote for Athens, Georgia. Checked it out thoroughly, house prices, progressive folks, good indy bookstores and public libraries. University of Georgia Museum of Art. However, Mr. Piano had his heart set on Toronto. He was right for the reasons that were important to him. This was before we were even engaged, and he made it clear that we would not be marrying if he had to live in Georgia.

Must be a Mapleleafs fan

[I'm a red panda]

How big was the university?   I've lived in two different towns in the southeast with the largest state university, they were pretty progressive.

Demographics do tend to be more higher education oriented, white first, then asian, then other racial makeups

About 50,000 undergraduates?

[partdopy]

Gainesville Fl!
- Able to buy a 4 BR 2500 sq ft home under $300K Currently 20 homes on zillow that match your requirements
- Great public schools (9+/10 ratings) The city overall is rated a 7, but there are many schools rated 10
- Open minded/inclusive community, diverse Nothing like a college town to keep things very inclusive
- Not too cold/minimal snow. Ok with warm/hot/rain There were some flurries here one day in January and the whole town flipped out. It was amazing.
- Access to good public libraries and parks Yup
- State tax needs to be <=6%  No state income tax, alachua county sales tax is 6.25%, close enough
- Less than 1 hour from outdoor activities Payne's Prairie, Ginny Springs...etc
- Less than two hours from a major airport You are less than 2 hours from 3 major airports (Tampa, Jacksonville, Orlando)

Downsides, our governor is less than spectacular, ocasional hurricanes, college students

Seconded. I lived in Gainesville for over 20 years until May of this year. Fits all your boxes, and many people don't know, but the university of Florida ranks as the 8th best public university in the US.  It also has one of the lowest in state student tuition bills, so definitely worth it if your kids can get in.

[RavensBrew]

Port Angeles, WA. Very affordable still. Endless outdoor options. Beautiful and very friendly town with an active art community and a year round farmer's market. It's also in a rain shadow so only gets 25 inches of rain a year and rarely snows. However, it lacks diversity.

[erutio]

Ok. As a half black, native West African who lives in Florida, I have to stick up for rednecks. Many “rednecks” I know or who live around, are hard working and helpful people. Most rednecks are genetically incapable of passing by a stranded car on the side of the road; you could be a multinational gay cabaret with NY license plates and they will help. They might make ignorant jokes at your expense, and will talk shit about you around town after, but they are a simple and non-vindictive people. Some of them share mustachian traits, are frugal, resourceful and might be secretly wealthy. Also, don’t get rednecks twisted with “white/trailor trash”. Many rednecks own houses and large properties, and a whole fleet of various vehicles.

I’ve met some of the nicest, most chivalrous men, when I lived in Tallahassee for college. Tilt their hats and say “good evening ma’am”, to a young black woman. Offer to walk you to your car. Teach you to line dance. And rednecks know how to freakin have fun. 2 of my roommates were FL rednecks and they were forever camping, fishing, mudding, bull froggin’ (yeah, it’s a thing). If you have a sense of humor, and are a genuine person, most will respect you no matter your background.

This is called Southern Hospitality, where they are openly very nice, kind, and welcoming to you, but inside, they feel something different about you.  Not everyone, mind you, is this way, but a small percentage of those that spoke to you so kindly, probably felt different inside.

[carolina822]

Asheville, NC

Are you kidding!?  I live there now and it is no where near affordable.  A 4 BR 2500 sq ft home will run you like $600k, and the schools are "meh".  However, the limitless adventure is amazing which is the reason why we moved here!

No kidding! It's a lovely town, but not even close to affordable these days.

Greenville SC is coming along nicely. You're still surrounded by dumb rednecks and represented by Lindsey Fucking Graham, but there's a lot to do and you're not far from the same kinds of outdoor activities. I've heard it referred to as "Asheville if it put down the bong and got a real job." ;)

[shotgunwilly]

Problem is that low cost and cheap housing is often reversely correlated with good schools, libraries and public services in general. And often to "inclusiveness" too, by which I assume general redneck attitudes.. I'm sure there are many lovely places in the south, but looking into the politics of those areas not many places I'd want to live.

Thank you, keep telling all of your narrow minded friends too.

This is called Southern Hospitality, where they are openly very nice, kind, and welcoming to you, but inside, they feel something different about you.  Not everyone, mind you, is this way, but a small percentage of those that spoke to you so kindly, probably felt different inside.

The genuine kindness that she encountered is what Southern Hospitality is.  The rest of what you typed is... well, bullshit.  The showing one thing and feeling the other on the inside thing... Yeah that's some HUMANS (as in this is something that people of all kinds from all over the world do), not constrained to 'some people in the south'.

[Scandium]

Problem is that low cost and cheap housing is often reversely correlated with good schools, libraries and public services in general. And often to "inclusiveness" too, by which I assume general redneck attitudes.. I'm sure there are many lovely places in the south, but looking into the politics of those areas not many places I'd want to live.

Thank you, keep telling all of your narrow minded friends too.

This is called Southern Hospitality, where they are openly very nice, kind, and welcoming to you, but inside, they feel something different about you.  Not everyone, mind you, is this way, but a small percentage of those that spoke to you so kindly, probably felt different inside.

The genuine kindness that she encountered is what Southern Hospitality is.  The rest of what you typed is... well, bullshit.  The showing one thing and feeling the other on the inside thing... Yeah that's some HUMANS (as in this is something that people of all kinds from all over the world do), not constrained to 'some people in the south'.

Yes I'm narrow minded. Yet the state I live in doesn't shut down 90% of polling places in black neighborhoods. Or vote for a pedofile for congress. Strange.

[dcheesi]

Ok. As a half black, native West African who lives in Florida, I have to stick up for rednecks. Many “rednecks” I know or who live around, are hard working and helpful people. Most rednecks are genetically incapable of passing by a stranded car on the side of the road; you could be a multinational gay cabaret with NY license plates and they will help. They might make ignorant jokes at your expense, and will talk shit about you around town after, but they are a simple and non-vindictive people. Some of them share mustachian traits, are frugal, resourceful and might be secretly wealthy. Also, don’t get rednecks twisted with “white/trailor trash”. Many rednecks own houses and large properties, and a whole fleet of various vehicles.

I’ve met some of the nicest, most chivalrous men, when I lived in Tallahassee for college. Tilt their hats and say “good evening ma’am”, to a young black woman. Offer to walk you to your car. Teach you to line dance. And rednecks know how to freakin have fun. 2 of my roommates were FL rednecks and they were forever camping, fishing, mudding, bull froggin’ (yeah, it’s a thing). If you have a sense of humor, and are a genuine person, most will respect you no matter your background.

This is called Southern Hospitality, where they are openly very nice, kind, and welcoming to you, but inside, they feel something different about you.  Not everyone, mind you, is this way, but a small percentage of those that spoke to you so kindly, probably felt different inside.

"Bless your heart!" ;)

Also, the sense of chivalry that Lmoot noted is likely to further blunt the experience of racism for a female POC, as compared to a male POC.

[hoping2retire35]

Reading this board almost constantly reminds me it is best to stay in my little corner of the world.

[eljefe-speaks]

Since this is a zombie thread, I would be curious to see what the OP decided.

[Lmoot]

Ok. As a half black, native West African who lives in Florida, I have to stick up for rednecks. Many “rednecks” I know or who live around, are hard working and helpful people. Most rednecks are genetically incapable of passing by a stranded car on the side of the road; you could be a multinational gay cabaret with NY license plates and they will help. They might make ignorant jokes at your expense, and will talk shit about you around town after, but they are a simple and non-vindictive people. Some of them share mustachian traits, are frugal, resourceful and might be secretly wealthy. Also, don’t get rednecks twisted with “white/trailor trash”. Many rednecks own houses and large properties, and a whole fleet of various vehicles.

I’ve met some of the nicest, most chivalrous men, when I lived in Tallahassee for college. Tilt their hats and say “good evening ma’am”, to a young black woman. Offer to walk you to your car. Teach you to line dance. And rednecks know how to freakin have fun. 2 of my roommates were FL rednecks and they were forever camping, fishing, mudding, bull froggin’ (yeah, it’s a thing). If you have a sense of humor, and are a genuine person, most will respect you no matter your background.

This is called Southern Hospitality, where they are openly very nice, kind, and welcoming to you, but inside, they feel something different about you.  Not everyone, mind you, is this way, but a small percentage of those that spoke to you so kindly, probably felt different inside.

"Bless your heart!" ;)

Also, the sense of chivalry that Lmoot noted is likely to further blunt the experience of racism for a female POC, as compared to a male POC.

Yep, good points to both of you. Although I find that white southerners and black southerners can have a lot in common, in terms of upbringing and general likes and dislikes. It's common in the south to have mixed raced entourages and gatherings (in areas where there are black southern/country population).

Now I'm thinking of moving to North Georgia (Blue Ridge/ Ellijay region) because I want to stay closer to family in FL, but want to escape the heat and try something new, and be near mountains. But I'm concerned because there isn't the racial mix that there is in other southern parts. Plus I know my way around rednecks, but Appalacian hillbilly is a different thing for me.

[hoping2retire35]

Yep, good points to both of you. Although I find that white southerners and black southerners can have a lot in common, in terms of upbringing and general likes and dislikes. It's common in the south to have mixed raced entourages and gatherings (in areas where there are black southern/country population).

Now I'm thinking of moving to North Georgia (Blue Ridge/ Ellijay region) because I want to stay closer to family in FL, but want to escape the heat and try something new, and be near mountains. But I'm concerned because there isn't the racial mix that there is in other southern parts. Plus I know my way around rednecks, but Appalacian hillbilly is a different thing for me.

NE Georgia is a little different. I am not sure where in GA the border is between southern gentile and hillbilly(or whatever), I could tell you to a town where it is in SC. Then again if you can get into the mountain areas it is rich, snobby white people and trust fund hippies but also expensive.
I generally enjoy all of it for a visit, but like living where I do.

[FamilyGuy]

Look at Apex, NC (closer to Triangle). A lot of employers are present around that area (20 miles radius) and housing market started blooming.

[dougules]

Since this is a zombie thread, I would be curious to see what the OP decided.

Yes, this is a zombie thread.  From the last post in December it looks like the decision was to stay put. 

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/status-quo-or-new-jobs/msg1794059/#msg1794059

OP, if you read this, I don't see why you couldn't easily FIRE where you're at.