Author Topic: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?  (Read 4068 times)

Kashmani

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Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« on: September 29, 2017, 04:24:56 PM »
A bit of background:

I have never been a high-energy person. As a two-year old, I drove my father nuts by politely sitting in a corner in daycare for seven hours waiting to be picked up, as the rest of the kids were active. In school, I drove teachers nuts by being a super-slow walker. The highlight of my athletic career was when I was no longer being picked last in gym class but got bumped to second-last when a child who was oxygen-deprived at birth and a year ahead of me failed his grade and got bumped into my class. Luckily I was smart, so even though I would spend most of my time day-dreaming and being in "idle mode", I got decent (if not stellar) grades.

I have also never been a natural ascetic. I totally would have failed the Stanford Marshmallow experiment and spent all my money on candy as a kid. Literally: All. My. Money. Sometimes I would spend someone else's money, which I am still ashamed of 30 years later.

For the past 15 years, I channelled all my energy into a professional career in law and have been quite successful. But I did so at the price of stress-eating lots of sugary snacks to get my energy level up. I would frequently eat 300-500g of wine gums in a sitting to give me a sugar rush for a few additional hours in the late afternoon. It was clearly not sustainable, especially since I am descended from a long lineage of pot-bellied diabetic men who shunned physical exertion.

I am now nearing 40 and switched to a government position will better hours, but one that is still mentally draining. I used the switch as an opportunity to abolish the stress-eating and go to the gym 5 days a week most of the time as opposed to three-day attendance before. Instead of a box of cheese crackers in the mornings, I now have some greek yoghurt with frozen fruit. Instead of a pack of wine gums in the afternoons, I have 12 almonds. And I have been good about keeping this routine - it has been well over a year. So I am well past the adjustment phase.

All of this is taking up an incredible amount of willpower, because not of it comes naturally. I am naturally lazy. I am naturally not a deferred gratifier but a candy-snarfler. Working at a brain-intensive job uses up willpower. Working out continues to be a pure mind over matter proposition and uses up more willpower. And not having an unhealthy sugar rush every day means I cannot "cheat" my way through the afternoon at work by giving me a burst of energy. Hence, more willpower is being used. This is a matter of my INTJ personality constantly giving my body the middle finger when it complains.

Here's my frustration: I  find that I now need almost nine hours of sleep per night to keep up the routine, whereas before I usually made do with 7.5 hours. And most people in my profession make do with around six hours, so I sleep almost 50% more than average. It can't be an issue of not eating enough because my weight is stable and I am still overweight. I have accepted that I now need to be in bed around 8:20 PM to get through an entire week without breaking the routine. But it is annoying to have the same sleep requirements as a pre-pubescent boy.

Have other naturally lazy people on this forum had a similar experience, where being responsible significantly increased your sleep needs? Is this normal?

seathink

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2017, 05:04:16 PM »
Well, first off, congrats on the career and the great gym/eating habits!

I'm afraid I'm not quite your demographic because I have always required more sleep than other people, even while being a very active person. At normal levels I need 9 hours (midnight to 9am is primo!) But I sleep more, first due to a deviated septum (10-14 hours needed), and currently due to necessary medication (gone from my normal 9, to a necessary 10/10.5 hours a night).

I don't mind as much, due to these factors: I arranged a 15 minute commute to work by living close by and a 9:30am start time so that I can start my minimal get-ready routine at 8:30/8:45pm. So I do everything at night, staying up and being productive then.

It sounds like you wake up at 5am - I feel like that's insanity to a sleep-loving body. When you were sleeping only 7.5 hours of sleep, was it also with that early of a wake up time? When I do sleep less, I find staying up later and waking up at the last possible moment way easier to maintain. I.E. Midnight to 7:30am sleep time. Would it be possible to work out at night and stay up for productivity?

Also, "The Power of When" may be an interesting read for you - it's all about this, conforming sleep types to daytime rhythms required by work/society. Itís hard to think you are handicapped against colleagues, but maybe you could focus on the ways in which you have a leg up, instead?

I'm soo not an INTJ so I don't mind if you dismiss my suggestions. :) But I hope you got something out of my ramble.
Good luck!

ixtap

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2017, 05:19:33 PM »
Change, even positive change, causes stress, which wears out the body, which means you need more sleep until you adjust.

How long has your weight been stable? The body can mess with weight loss for a few weeks by playing with hormones and water.

Are you eating enough to fuel your new exercise routine?

Are you staying hydrated?

Dee

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2017, 05:25:30 PM »
Wow, I love how you're owning all this! It's not often people come forward to say such things about themselves. I can relate to a lot of these things, and I have very little to offer but sympathy. There's very little left for anything else when you sleep and work that amount of time. It's not fun.

birdiegirl

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2017, 08:28:22 PM »
That is fantastic that you've improved your workout/eating habits!  You should be very proud of the change you've made - trust me, I'm still struggling to get where you are :) 

I don't think there is anything wrong with needing 9 hours of sleep.  I've learned for my body, the ideal time for me to sleep is 12:00am - 9:00 am...unfortunately doesn't quite fit with my work schedule.   Could you shift you sleep a bit ? Go to bed a bit later and get up a bit later in the morning?  If you need 9 hrs of sleep to function at your best, I don't think you should worry about sleeping less...but maybe you could adjust so you don't feel like you have follow a "kids" schedule. 

galliver

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2017, 09:12:51 PM »
I don't know about willpower, but I need more sleep when I work out (esp if regularly). Or, perhaps, it's not that I need more, but that I can't make do on less? In periods when I don't exercise intensely, 7-9 hrs works fine and I can do with 6 for short periods. When  I do return to an exercise program, I *need* 8-9hrs, and definitely can't handle just 6.

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Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2017, 12:47:58 AM »
Maximum Willpower by Kelly McGonigal talks about lack of sleep depleting our willpower, I guess it would make sense that using a lot of willpower would increase a need for sleep.

You say that you've been doing it for over a year, thus are past the adjustment stage of the habit. I'm going to challenge this. I agree that people will spout automatically that it takes 21 days or 66 days or whatever to form a new habit. But Phillippa Lally did a study and showed that it can take far longer. In this study, some habits were only cemented after 9 months.

You've made A LOT of changes, a lot of hard changes, some of the old habits sound like they were ingrained for a really long time. Would you be open to considering that maybe you are still in an adjustment / habit forming stage, and it could get easier over the next year? Do you feel like going to the gym is automatic, or do you still force yourself to do it? If you are still forcing yourself to do it then the habit might not be fully "set". Be aware that something can be habitual even if you don't look forward to the event. Is there anything you can do to enjoy the gym/exercise more/dislike it less (not an INTJ, I'm thinking an audio book, going when it is quietest, finding a less busy gym, swimming instead)?

I find the first year or so in a new job demands more from me and I need more sleep - even if the work isn't more demanding, a lot of things that were automatic in the old place need more thought in the new place. You've identified a mid-afternoon slump as something that you push through. Can you think of a non-winegum way to give yourself a boost or reduce the demand (I do some squats on the hour in the afternoon as I have the same slump - I don't think that would necessarily work for you)? Can you schedule less demanding tasks that you can do with music (expenses, timesheet, email)? Or more demanding tasks that hold your interest automatically without you scraping to the bottom of your willpower barrel? Or do a bunch of shorter tasks with a timer (do a task in 15 minutes, chill for 5, repeat three times in an hour)?

Finally, have you checked that you are getting the best value out of your sleeping hours? If you were waking frequently (you might not be aware of it) or your breathing was interrupted then you wouldn't be getting high quality sleep. Is your nutrition good?

Try not to compare yourself to the average sleep in your profession. Many, many people get far less sleep than is good for them, and their bodies suffer for it over time.

MrsPete

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2017, 07:17:29 AM »
It could be age.  I've never been a sleeper, and some of my friends told me that'd change once I turned 40.  Didn't.  I'm still going to bed about 1:00 am and getting up at 6:00 on workdays /8:30 on weekends.  But many of my friends say they need more sleep than they did when they were younger. 

One exception to the above:

Could you have a medical issue?  I won't go into details, but for a period of about a year around 45 I found myself exhausted all the time.  I mean, I was going to bed early at night, still was dragging myself out of bed in the mornings, exhausted all day at work, no energy when I came home ... I wondered if my friends (mentioned above) had been right, and my personal timeclock was a little later than theirs ... it came on slowly, and after about a year of this, I said, "NO MORE.  Something is wrong; this isn't normal."  I went to my regular doctor (whom I usually like very well), and he was a bit general and dismissive:  aging, need more exercise so you'll sleep more soundly, improve your diet ... no, no, that wasn't it.  I went to my OB/GYN for a regular appointment (ladies, those yearly appointments are important), and she figured it out right away:  It was a girl-y problem, and she fixed it with surgery.  As soon as I was healed from the surgery, I was myself again.  Plenty of energy, back to my old sleep schedule.  I'm embarassed that I allowed it to go on a whole year.  I blame it on two things:  The problem came on slowly; if it had started literally overnight, I'd have been quicker to go for professional help.  Second, my brain was muddled from exhaustion. 

joonifloofeefloo

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2017, 07:28:16 AM »
That was a delightful and hilarious post :)

I, too, have always been quiet, slow, pokey, still, etc -exceptionally so. I recently got confirmation that my brain is weird; the testing was inspired by my child's similar ways from birth. He and I both need infinitely more rest (sleep, staring, lying down, being left alone) than anyone I know. But so long as we have that restful life, we're both happy and well.

Yes, the more we attempt to apply and learn, the more physical rest we need. This is especially so with intellectual and social effort.
Yes, the more intellectual and social effort we expend, the more simple carbs we want.

A HUGE help for both of us is relying on fats vs simple carbs for energy (think paleo).
And...resting :)

ysette9

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2017, 08:35:16 AM »
In my humble opinion, needing 9 hours of sleep a night is not a problem to be solved but merely a part of being human that you recognize better than most. People think they can survive on little sleep but studies tents to show that this is a bunch of nonsense.

My parents recently retired and went from 7 or so hours of sleep each night to a good 9 hours a night, night after night, month after month. They are much happier people. Clearly not working has a lot to do with that. I think the better sleep is a big component as well. The fact that they have settled into this pattern of 9 hours shows me that it is what they really need on an ongoing basis.

My newborn sleeps all the time and no one thinks it is a waste of time or that she is lazy. We recognize it as a critical component to growth and brain development. Donít let yourself feel guilty for doing what your body needs to be healthy. Sleep is a wonderful thing to be celebrated.

MrsWolfeRN

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2017, 09:37:50 AM »
Maybe you have always needed more sleep and your previous bad habits/lack of willpower were a result of not getting enough.

That being said, I think a visit to the GP would be worthwhile just to rule out apnea, hypothyroidism, and other possible causes of your lack of energy.

bigalsmith101

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2017, 11:24:49 AM »
Maybe you have always needed more sleep and your previous bad habits/lack of willpower were a result of not getting enough.

That being said, I think a visit to the GP would be worthwhile just to rule out apnea, hypothyroidism, and other possible causes of your lack of energy.

Definitely book a visit to the doctor. My first thought also was hypothyroidism. It could be as simple as that. My wife experienced ALL of those symptoms, albeit a bit later in life, and the solution has been a 50μg (microgram) pill each morning. It revolutionized her life.

Rachel_the_Lark

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2017, 12:14:08 PM »
I'm surprised that you think your habits tie back to Myers-Briggs.  I'm a fellow INTJ and have never come across anything that suggested it means I'm more likely to be able to delay gratification or pick up new habits.  Now if you are exhausted from not giving yourself enough recharge time as an introvert, I could see that causing trouble...but you aren't mentioning your social interactions as a concern.

Medical advice from a doctor certainly can't hurt, but I'm not sure I buy 6 hours as the number you should be targeting.  Sure people on average may be only sleeping 6 hours, but that's not necessarily best for them.  https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2016/p0215-enough-sleep.html

TartanTallulah

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2017, 02:10:17 PM »
What a delightful post :) I have nothing much to add from experience, being close to your polar opposite apart from sharing your competence at sleeping, but it makes perfect sense to me that if you're eating less than before, and exercising more, and putting in the same commitment at your job, you'll need more sleep.

Sleep is good. Research suggests that six hours is too little for most people, and nine hours isn't too much.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2017, 05:05:52 PM »
Love your post. Lots that I can relate to in there! Just a query - have you typecast yourself? I ask because getting through law school is HARD. Getting to the gym every whenever is HARD. No one operates on pure willpower. I think you might just have a lil bit of pure steel in there somewhere!

Regarding the sleep part - if you need the sleep, have the sleep. I've always viewed sleep as a biological process. If I needed some other biological requirement, like food, or air, or to pee, I wouldn't be querying it. If your body says it needs sleep, then it needs sleep. You can try over riding things for a short time but you'll likely only end up screwed up down the track.

Freedomin5

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2017, 05:42:05 PM »
INTJ here. Working a demanding job. If left to my own devices, I can sleep from 9 or 10 PM to 7 or 8 AM the next morning. When I was reading your post, I felt like I was reading about my own childhood, except I stopped being picked last for gym class when PE class stopped being mandatory and I stopped attending.

Others have given good comments already, but mine are just a slightly different perspective that may be considered in addition to others' suggestions.

For my personality type, I've found that I can force myself to do things for a while, but it has never been sustainable. So I work with my personality, instead of against it. So for example, I stopped paying for a gym membership, but instead I find ways to integrate exercise into my daily routine, so I'm doing it without realizing how much exercise I'm doing. For example, on some days I bike my daughter to school, which out of necessity means I have to bike myself back home (1.5 hours of biking). I walk to the subway station (40 minutes round trip) and I don't power walk, but I try to walk as briskly as I can, which incidentally is still slower than my SO's normal walking speed.

I don't deprive myself of sweets, but I may switch up what I eat. For example, instead of candy/chocolate, I eat a very sweet granola bar, or dried cranberries or raisins. Or I eat protein or complex carbohydrates instead of pure sugar. In the afternoon, I usually drink a latte to give me the energy boost to last the rest of the day.

In essence, I've had a bit more success working with who I am, rather than against. And I've been much happier in my quest for health.

JoJo

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2017, 01:21:02 AM »
I find when I'm dieting/exercising/burning energy I need more sleep and I tend to be a bit colder so laying under covers is comforting.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2017, 04:34:29 AM »
On the one hand, nine hours of sleep is totally reasonable. Your six hour colleagues are either unusual, lying or slowly destroying themselves.

On the other hand, no harm in getting your bloods checked. Thyroid, Vitamin D and iron are the obvious ones.

I am a slow, quiet person. I can do high-energy but it takes a long time to recover. I am currently considering a career change to something that involves spending more time alone. This is how I roll.

wenchsenior

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2017, 10:03:07 AM »
Normal sleep requirements for most people are usually quite a bit higher than what we convince ourselves.  I've read that 8-9 hours is the actual minimum requirement for the average adult.  However, Americans get a perverse charge out of demonstrating how little sleep they supposedly need.

I had insomnia and strange sleep patterns starting in my late 20s until my late 30s, when I gradually began to sleep better.  I also started out a true night owl.  During that period, I regularly went weeks on 5 or 6 hours of sleep a night, and felt 'fine'.  I assumed I was just wired to need less. But I discovered that any time I did hard physical field work (annually in the tropics), I would instantly not have insomnia, but would instead sleep 10 hours every single night like I had been cold cocked.  And I could easily have slept longer, had the work not demanded getting up with the sun.

Gradually through my 40s, my insomnia became less frequent, and I began sleeping longer and longer.  Now, 9 hours is the norm, and 10 or 11 is not that unusual when my schedule allows.  There is likely SOME influence of some longstanding mysterious health issues on this, but mostly  I have noticed that my high strung, anxious personality started to chill out at approximately the same time I started regularly getting more sleep.

My advice is, get checked for obvious physical problems, then set standard sleep hours (more than you think you need), and see how you feel.  When I'm getting truly enough sleep, I rarely get super draggy in the afternoon. 
« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 10:05:43 AM by wenchsenior »

Cole

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2017, 05:41:50 PM »
Here's my frustration: I  find that I now need almost nine hours of sleep per night to keep up the routine, whereas before I usually made do with 7.5 hours. And most people in my profession make do with around six hours, so I sleep almost 50% more than average.

Nine hours of sleep is well within a normal range. I regularly sleep from 8PM-6AM every day of the week.

Zaga

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2017, 06:29:22 PM »
I always needed more sleep than most people, 9 hours was my minimum.  My whole life I remember being a zombie in the morning before school, bags under my eyes was just my life.

Fast forward to my late 20's and I started having weird symptoms that just kept getting worst over a few years, I finally figured out that I had fairly mild food allergies that were getting progressively worse.  Removed milk and soy from my diet and within a month I was sleeping 7.5 hours a night.  I was a totally different person in the morning, and I never had a mid afternoon nap attack.  (Well, almost never!)

DH was having severe exhaustion a few years back, his turned out to be sleep apnea caused most likely be him being overweight.

So there are lots of reasons to sleep plenty, and if you need it you need it!  I would second getting your thyroid checked as well, that's a common issue for so many people.

koshtra

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2017, 07:04:33 PM »
My guess would be that you're getting enough sleep for the first time in your life.

The first thing a sleep specialist will ask you is, "do you feel refreshed when you wake up?" If the answer is yes, their working assumption will be that nine hours is what you need. It's well within normal range! Your tough-guy six-hour-a-night competitors, on the other hand, are working hard on acquiring diabetes, cardiac conditions, and various other stress disorders. I'd leave them to it.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2017, 12:44:46 AM »
Oh yes, experimenting with cutting out foods that people are commonly intolerant to may help. Gluten and dairy as a minimum, cut them out for a month and then reintroduce one by one. You may find it makes no difference but for me finding out I cannot eat onion or garlic and need to limit dairy has been life-transforming. You have nothing to lose except a slightly dull and awkward month.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2017, 05:55:20 AM »
About this willpower thing and the urge for sweetness. I think it comes from 2 things.

First thing is habits. If you are used to go out every day at the same time to buy a bag of winegums, you'll get used to the habit. Hopefully this habit is broken by you having another job. Learning a new habit takes about 3-4 weeks to get used to.

The other thing is your intestines. I have read that when you often eat sweetness, you'll develop an intestinal flora that craves sugar. When you don't eat sweetness for some hours, they will give you a strong urge to eat what they want to absorb. So it might not even be your own mind, telling you to need sugar, it can be a bacteria flora contributing to this value. This can be solved by not eating candies for a longer period, to make sure those sugarlovers die out and you will grow other bacteria. Eventually this urge for sweetness will disappear.

I have been in this habit of buying daily candies and know how that feels. The feeling can be very strong.

About the sleep: I think many people sleep way too little. Those people often need to sleep out long in the weekend to catch up. But as someone mentioned above, visit your GP to rule out any potential issues.

honeybbq

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2017, 10:21:43 AM »
In my humble opinion, needing 9 hours of sleep a night is not a problem to be solved but merely a part of being human that you recognize better than most. People think they can survive on little sleep but studies tents to show that this is a bunch of nonsense.




I totally agree. This is your natural state (I'm guessing) and you have been circumventing it all along with the lifestyle you were living. Embrace it and go with it.

mm1970

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2017, 03:41:35 PM »
Lots of really good points here already - about how it's normal to need 9 hours sleep (I have many friends who do).  About how you should see a doctor, check into your diet, etc.

I don't know about personality effects though.

The other thing is willpower and habits.  What has helped me is to remove the need for willpower.

For example, the candies - I just don't buy them.  I only need willpower at the grocery store, not at work or at home.  At one point in my life, I worked at a company that had a candy machine and a coke machine.  In order to avoid the junk food, I simply took ZERO MONEY to work.  So I didn't need to have willpower.  I basically engineered my life to not need willpower.

If I get sleepy in the afternoon, I go for a walk.  It's rare for me because I don't eat carbs at lunch. 

Finally, I don't get ENOUGH sleep.  I can't turn my brain off.  I wish I could sleep 9 hours.  Embrace it, and learn how to craft your life around it.  Also, figure out how to give yourself other down time.

If going to the gym requires so much mental effort, can you find something that doesn't?

Cpa Cat

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2017, 04:18:58 PM »
I just wanted to offer my support. I also need 9 hours (sometimes 10) of sleep, love wine gums, force myself to exercise, and still feel tired at the end of the day.

One thing I did when I worked in an office, was bring my yogurt and fruit to work to eat while working. I dawdled in the morning if I ate at home, and bringing it to work saved me a lot of time in the morning, which I used for sleeping.

Wish I had a solution for you. I feel like a good diet, exercise, and enough sleep should be enough to keep my energy level up, but it's not really. I do sometimes wonder if my diet is not as good as I think it is. Maybe I need more protein or to eat more whatever.

Let us know if you try anything that works!

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2017, 04:27:45 PM »
One thing I could suggest, that I learned at university - drink water! I had a chemistry professor that used to stop lectures so we would all drink from our water bottles while he stomped around the front yelling 'brains need lubrication!'. Funny thing is, it works. Drink some water when you're starting to slow down and there's a definite perk factor. I strongly suspect that this is the main energising factor in coffee. Nothing to do with caffeine.

pk_aeryn

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2017, 10:32:23 PM »
Not doubting that water helps or that caffeine is the only component of coffee that helps, but caffeine's effects on the brain are well documented.  The caffeine is definitely the main energizing  component, even as people grow tolerant over time.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2017, 10:38:45 PM »
Not doubting that water helps or that caffeine is the only component of coffee that helps, but caffeine's effects on the brain are well documented.  The caffeine is definitely the main energizing  component, even as people grow tolerant over time.

Caffeine doesn't wake you up, it just increases your response to stimulus. Ask any student who's been up all night on high levels of caffeine. You're not any less tired or any more alert. You're just jittery and over stimulated. And if you've had it after a night of drinking, then you're hung over, jittery and over stimulated. Water seems to wake you up. Try it.

pk_aeryn

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2017, 12:37:31 AM »
It sounds like we're probably arguing semantics, as I meant "energizing" to be more precisely defined as "wakefulness and SNS stimulating" which can manifest as jittery in a lot of people in high doses, sure.  Essentially I meant the reason caffeine keeps one awake is because it blocks adenosine, which makes you sleepy.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Increase in sleep needs as a result of using up willpower?
« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2017, 01:59:27 AM »
It sounds like we're probably arguing semantics, as I meant "energizing" to be more precisely defined as "wakefulness and SNS stimulating" which can manifest as jittery in a lot of people in high doses, sure.  Essentially I meant the reason caffeine keeps one awake is because it blocks adenosine, which makes you sleepy.

Yeah we probably are!
I guess my point really is that not being able to sleep does not equate with awake and functioning. I'm specifically thinking of those experiments you do in first year psychology, consuming coffee in various doses and trying to read out a paragraph! If I'm feeling foggy and tired, I'll opt for water first and then maybe follow it up later with a coffee. And i find it makes a difference. Worth a try for the Op, even if he's just using it to wash down the winegums.