Author Topic: In the US, are walkable/bikeable cities relatively uncommon?  (Read 1029 times)

MrGreen

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In the US, are walkable/bikeable cities relatively uncommon?
« on: September 30, 2024, 08:39:06 PM »
My wife and I ponder from time to time where we'll end up long-term, like when our daughter has to go to school and we'll be tied to the area. We grew up in a rural area where cars were required to do anything. The neighborhood we live in now is walkable to the shopping center in front of the community, which has quite a bit of what you want everyday access to but it'll never be more than that because of the major roads that run through here. It wasn't until we traveled to Colorado that we saw suburban cities where all the neighborhoods and commercial areas were linked with trails. Places dense enough to have public transit that still emphasized open space.

Are walkable/bikeable towns more prevalent that we realize? I don't mean just a little neighborhood like ours where you can walk/bike within a 1 mile radius that happens to include the grocery store and post office but a larger area that is more intentionally designed for people to live their lives car-free or fairly close to it? Are there places like this in the Eastern US or just out West? It seems like all the towns we've ever been to on the East Coast are old enough that they were designed before anyone cared about open space so everything is tight grids and few parks. This has led me to believe that most of the East Coast is this way but perhaps that just a bias from our experience.

spartana

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Re: In the US, are walkable/bikeable cities relatively uncommon?
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2024, 11:08:13 PM »
I'm not sure how to answer this because I find most places to be pretty bikeable except right in the downtown heart of a really large city like LA or NY. But then walking or public transit is an option. Ive lived a good portion of my life car free since I was 18 in various cities and metro areas as well small towns and usually in most places you can bypass large dense urban areas if there aren't many bike paths or traffic is horrendous.

The places I've lived car free - Bosten, Portland ME, Cape May NJ,  Yorktown VA,  near Wilmington NC (Southport/Oak Island), Key West, NOLA, Bay area of Calif,  SoCal (Long Beach and Orange County), Anchorage AK and Hono HI - have all been very bikeable, walkable and with good public transit outside of Calif. I personally found anchorage to be extremely bike friendly but on the beast coast Boston, Portland, and NOLA were great too. Yorktown is great too as we're most smaller towns and the outskirts of larger metro areas.

I've also visited many east coast town with only my bike from transportation and other then NYC and LA  found it would be very easy to live car free in most places. And yes I'm still car free since 2019 in Calif. Not great bikeable or walkable place and public transit is pretty bad but great year round  biking weather.

« Last Edit: September 30, 2024, 11:17:47 PM by spartana »

GilesMM

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Re: In the US, are walkable/bikeable cities relatively uncommon?
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2024, 05:44:26 AM »
You can screen all cities for walkability using assorted online tools, e.g. https://www.walkscore.com/cities-and-neighborhoods/  San Francisco usually wins.


For me, good walkability is not so much sprawling suburbs with bike trails as places like Chicago, NYC, Boston, etc. where neighborhoods are a great mix of living and retail and you can walk a couple blocks to everything you need.  We lived in South America and didn't use the car much as we were within three blocks of restaurants, shops, bars, the beach, etc.

MrGreen

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Re: In the US, are walkable/bikeable cities relatively uncommon?
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2024, 06:52:42 AM »
I should have added a qualifier, and perhaps this means I'm really talking about suburbs instead of cities? Or maybe just smaller cities? I struggle with an environment that is mostly unnatural. For instance, my sister used to live in Adams Morgan (a section of Washington DC) and I doubt I could live there because it's mostly brick, asphalt, and concrete and you can't see the horizon anywhere. Perhaps what I really meant to ask was if there are cities that have a stronger focus on open space that are also walkable/bikeable? I assume this precludes major metropolitan areas since space is a premium but we're admittedly not the most well traveled when it comes to city life.

GuitarStv

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Re: In the US, are walkable/bikeable cities relatively uncommon?
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2024, 07:12:13 AM »
I should have added a qualifier, and perhaps this means I'm really talking about suburbs instead of cities? Or maybe just smaller cities? I struggle with an environment that is mostly unnatural. For instance, my sister used to live in Adams Morgan (a section of Washington DC) and I doubt I could live there because it's mostly brick, asphalt, and concrete and you can't see the horizon anywhere. Perhaps what I really meant to ask was if there are cities that have a stronger focus on open space that are also walkable/bikeable? I assume this precludes major metropolitan areas since space is a premium but we're admittedly not the most well traveled when it comes to city life.

We moved to the outer edge of Toronto, right next to a designated greenspace where construction is legally prohibited so that we would have access to natural space as well as the city where we both work.  This meant that the area we ended up in is not as good for walkability/bikability as more urban areas, but it's very possible to get around without a car and there's access to public transit.  I think that you would probably be able to find something similar at the edges of many major metropolitan areas and might be worth looking for.

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: In the US, are walkable/bikeable cities relatively uncommon?
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2024, 07:25:57 AM »
I should have added a qualifier, and perhaps this means I'm really talking about suburbs instead of cities? Or maybe just smaller cities? I struggle with an environment that is mostly unnatural. For instance, my sister used to live in Adams Morgan (a section of Washington DC) and I doubt I could live there because it's mostly brick, asphalt, and concrete and you can't see the horizon anywhere. Perhaps what I really meant to ask was if there are cities that have a stronger focus on open space that are also walkable/bikeable? I assume this precludes major metropolitan areas since space is a premium but we're admittedly not the most well traveled when it comes to city life.

We moved to the outer edge of Toronto, right next to a designated greenspace where construction is legally prohibited so that we would have access to natural space as well as the city where we both work.  This meant that the area we ended up in is not as good for walkability/bikability as more urban areas, but it's very possible to get around without a car and there's access to public transit.  I think that you would probably be able to find something similar at the edges of many major metropolitan areas and might be worth looking for.
How is your access to things like grocery stores/libraries/etc?

GuitarStv

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Re: In the US, are walkable/bikeable cities relatively uncommon?
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2024, 07:55:31 AM »
I should have added a qualifier, and perhaps this means I'm really talking about suburbs instead of cities? Or maybe just smaller cities? I struggle with an environment that is mostly unnatural. For instance, my sister used to live in Adams Morgan (a section of Washington DC) and I doubt I could live there because it's mostly brick, asphalt, and concrete and you can't see the horizon anywhere. Perhaps what I really meant to ask was if there are cities that have a stronger focus on open space that are also walkable/bikeable? I assume this precludes major metropolitan areas since space is a premium but we're admittedly not the most well traveled when it comes to city life.

We moved to the outer edge of Toronto, right next to a designated greenspace where construction is legally prohibited so that we would have access to natural space as well as the city where we both work.  This meant that the area we ended up in is not as good for walkability/bikability as more urban areas, but it's very possible to get around without a car and there's access to public transit.  I think that you would probably be able to find something similar at the edges of many major metropolitan areas and might be worth looking for.
How is your access to things like grocery stores/libraries/etc?

I'd say not bad.  It takes a while if you want to do everything through walking, but most stuff is very easily bikeable:

Library - 2.1 km
Grocery Stores (including a Chinese and Indian one) - 2.7, 3.1, 5.1, 5.5, 6.4, and 2.4 km
Schools - three different elementary schools within 1 km
Banks - 2.7, 3.1, 4.1 km
Restaurants - there are probably ten or fifteen restaurants within a 3 km radius but they're mostly fast food sort of places but we've got a decent place for jerk chicken, Filipino food, and a couple Indian food places.
Post Office - 2.7, 6.9 km
Hardware stores - 3.1 and 5.9 km
Movie Theater - 3.3 km
Coffee Shops - Maybe?

We're also across the ravine (maybe a 4 km walk) from the Toronto Zoo (and we rarely run into escaped animals - only a peacock and capybara in 14 years).  :P

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: In the US, are walkable/bikeable cities relatively uncommon?
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2024, 08:04:14 AM »
I should have added a qualifier, and perhaps this means I'm really talking about suburbs instead of cities? Or maybe just smaller cities? I struggle with an environment that is mostly unnatural. For instance, my sister used to live in Adams Morgan (a section of Washington DC) and I doubt I could live there because it's mostly brick, asphalt, and concrete and you can't see the horizon anywhere. Perhaps what I really meant to ask was if there are cities that have a stronger focus on open space that are also walkable/bikeable? I assume this precludes major metropolitan areas since space is a premium but we're admittedly not the most well traveled when it comes to city life.

We moved to the outer edge of Toronto, right next to a designated greenspace where construction is legally prohibited so that we would have access to natural space as well as the city where we both work.  This meant that the area we ended up in is not as good for walkability/bikability as more urban areas, but it's very possible to get around without a car and there's access to public transit.  I think that you would probably be able to find something similar at the edges of many major metropolitan areas and might be worth looking for.
How is your access to things like grocery stores/libraries/etc?

I'd say not bad.  It takes a while if you want to do everything through walking, but most stuff is very easily bikeable:

Library - 2.1 km
Grocery Stores (including a Chinese and Indian one) - 2.7, 3.1, 5.1, 5.5, 6.4, and 2.4 km
Schools - three different elementary schools within 1 km
Banks - 2.7, 3.1, 4.1 km
Restaurants - there are probably ten or fifteen restaurants within a 3 km radius but they're mostly fast food sort of places but we've got a decent place for jerk chicken, Filipino food, and a couple Indian food places.
Post Office - 2.7, 6.9 km
Hardware stores - 3.1 and 5.9 km
Movie Theater - 3.3 km
Coffee Shops - Maybe?

We're also across the ravine (maybe a 4 km walk) from the Toronto Zoo (and we rarely run into escaped animals - only a peacock and capybara in 14 years).  :P

That sounds like a pretty good set up. Kudos for finding it.

Morning Glory

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Re: In the US, are walkable/bikeable cities relatively uncommon?
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2024, 08:57:53 AM »
The Minneapolis suburbs and even some of the smaller-mid size towns in MN have good bike path systems, as in good enough that you can get from one side of town to the other without much of your trip being on a road. Many of the country roads also have nice wide paved shoulders, and they are working on expanding a rail trail that connects several towns.They dont plow the paths in winter though, so it's really only bikeable  half the year (some are groomed for skiing though).

Cranky

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Re: In the US, are walkable/bikeable cities relatively uncommon?
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2024, 11:26:24 AM »
I think you can almost always pick a neighborhood that is relatively walkable, and the “walkability score” doesn’t tell you much. I base this on the fact that I don’t actually drive and have managed to be a nondriver in quite a few different places.

So, whenever we’ve moved I’ve looked at residences with an eye to public transit, plus walking to the grocery store, the library, and my kids’ school when they were young. It was never that hard to find a place, but we’ve always lived in older neighborhoods, not the fancier suburbs.

Bikeable is another matter. This is the first place I’ve lived where I’m comfortable biking to actually get places because they’ve really made an effort with bike infrastructure.

seattlecyclone

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Re: In the US, are walkable/bikeable cities relatively uncommon?
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2024, 01:45:30 PM »
Walkability tends to correlate very much with population density. If your neighborhood has big yards, ample parking, open space, these are things you need to walk past on the way to your destination. That takes time and limits the number of destinations in walking distance!

My parents live in a suburb of Minneapolis. Their neighborhood is full of green grass and trees. Their house is pretty typical for the area: a 42-year-old detached single-family residence on a one-third-acre lot. The neighborhood borders a giant forested park with hiking and biking trails. The trails are nice! I enjoy using them when I visit. However within a mile walking radius of the house there's nothing at all except that park and other houses. A little over a mile away is a car-oriented strip mall complex with some basic businesses to support the neighborhood: a gas station, convenience store, hardware store, hair salon, daycare, bank, gym, couple of restaurants, etc. The parking lots for these businesses use twice as much land as the actual buildings. The nearest grocery store is about two miles away.

Compare that to my neighborhood in Seattle. The neighborhood was first developed when the Model T was in production, and largely predates the idea of the automobile as the primary mode of local transport. My house sits on a one-tenth-acre lot. Most of the homes in the immediate vicinity are similar, though even denser development is common in nearby neighborhoods. The result of this higher population density is a much wider variety of destinations within walking distance. Within a mile walk of my house there are five supermarkets, three elementary schools, a high school, two public libraries, a subway station, a couple dozen restaurants, a food bank, a community garden, four parks, and a bunch of other stuff. Two of the parks feature forested walking trails. Much less of the land is devoted to surface parking. This is the sort of environment you need for walkability.

Bikeability is a bit of a different story. People tend to bike about 4-5x faster than they walk, so having things spread out a bit more isn't as much of an impediment. What matters more there is whether the infrastructure is set up to support biking safely, or if everything is designed only for people to zip between places at 45 MPH in their metal boxes, and bikes are seen mostly as an obstacle for drivers to become enraged at while they're waiting to pass.

My parents' suburb isn't actually that bad for biking. The neighborhood streets are pretty safe and pleasant to bike on directly. The larger arterial roads are lined with foot/bike paths. Not exactly pleasant to ride on these next to four lanes of fast car traffic, but they're safe and efficient enough. Although the nearest public library is two miles away, it's only 10-15 minutes by bike which isn't bad at all. Similar story with nearby schools and other destinations. Biking is far from the dominant (or even very common) method of local transport there, but it's feasible enough if you want to do it.

AMandM

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Re: In the US, are walkable/bikeable cities relatively uncommon?
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2024, 08:14:40 AM »
Walkability tends to correlate very much with population density.

And hence, walkability tends to correlate with what OP calls "an environment that is mostly unnatural." The destinations (shops, schools, churches, restaurants, etc.) have to be within walking/transit distance of enough people to support them, and it's hard to achieve those numbers and also have natural open horizons.

tygertygertyger

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Re: In the US, are walkable/bikeable cities relatively uncommon?
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2024, 08:22:30 AM »
Agreeing with other posters that older towns are better on this front... I live in a suburb that got built up because it's had a train stop since the 1850s. It's still walkable due to its downtown core (and train station) despite the people who've been running this town, as those folks have car-brain.

spartana

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Re: In the US, are walkable/bikeable cities relatively uncommon?
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2024, 09:12:42 AM »
I should have added a qualifier, and perhaps this means I'm really talking about suburbs instead of cities? Or maybe just smaller cities? I struggle with an environment that is mostly unnatural. For instance, my sister used to live in Adams Morgan (a section of Washington DC) and I doubt I could live there because it's mostly brick, asphalt, and concrete and you can't see the horizon anywhere. Perhaps what I really meant to ask was if there are cities that have a stronger focus on open space that are also walkable/bikeable? I assume this precludes major metropolitan areas since space is a premium but we're admittedly not the most well traveled when it comes to city life.
I think that will be harder to find unless you consider places where there are numerous city parks and greenways within the city that you walk thru to get to your shopping, schools, etc instead of using walkable and bikeable areas mainly for recreation. Maybe best to focus on interesting small cities (so many!) that have highly walkable downtowns with lots of interesting architecture and small green spaces with walking paths but that are close to larger areas of wilderness or open places for biking or hiking, or waterways for outdoor recreation.

MrGreen

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Re: In the US, are walkable/bikeable cities relatively uncommon?
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2024, 10:46:47 AM »
I guess that's essentially what I'm wondering is how uncommon towns/cities are where there's still some semblance of horizon and open space along with planned development for walkability/bikeability. Everything doesn't have to be within a few blocks but the roads can't be so dangerous that no one bikes on them. The smaller suburban towns in Boulder County are like this and it's really nice. I'm wondering if that's an anomaly or more common and we just haven't been other places. Even a denser city would be okay if there are actual trees there and frequent natural areas where one can go but there is something about high rises that instantly gets my hackles up, like humans were not meant to live that way.

For instance, Wilmington, NC is meh for walkability/bikeability. There are very few green spaces. A couple county parks and the rare neighborhood pocket park. No considerable trails or natural areas in the immediate vicinity unless you want to sit on a beach. So it doesn't pass the test.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2024, 11:30:05 AM by MrGreen »

jrhampt

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Re: In the US, are walkable/bikeable cities relatively uncommon?
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2024, 10:59:41 AM »
I think what you're looking for can be found in many small towns in different areas of the country.  One of the reasons I live in my small town is that it has gorgeous scenery for running and biking, but I can walk to bank, post office, dentist, doctors, library, yoga, pickleball, restaurants etc all within one or two miles.

FLBiker

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Re: In the US, are walkable/bikeable cities relatively uncommon?
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2024, 11:11:52 AM »
I've found those "walkability" scores to be kind of useless, as they're threshold for walkability (in terms of how far you'd have to walk to get to something) seems to be quite low, so unless you're right downtown it isn't really considered "walkable".  For example, Walk Score gives my address a score of 11 (Car-Dependent) and a bike score of 6 (minimal bike infrastructure).

We live in a small town in Nova Scotia.  Even though it's small, we chose a regional hub, so we have a hospital, two grocery stores, pharmacies, a hardware store, a library, a post office, etc.  The furthest of those is the hospital, which is 3 km away.  It's an easy bike ride, with a paved off-road path from the end of my neighborhood to downtown.  I can walk downtown (on that same path) in ~20 minutes or bike in 5.  There's a good-sized hill, so coming home takes a little longer.  And the path is plowed in the winter, which is great.

In addition, my town is on a rail-to-trail network of ~110km, so I can also easily bike to neighboring towns.  No one (including walkability scores) would consider rural Nova Scotia to be walkable, but it absolutely can be depending on the specific location.

Interestingly (to me), despite living in a place that I consider both walkable and bikeable, we're the only house in our loop of ~40 hours that just has one car, aside from two families where one adult is unable to drive.

seattlecyclone

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Re: In the US, are walkable/bikeable cities relatively uncommon?
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2024, 11:36:39 AM »
Walkability tends to correlate very much with population density.

And hence, walkability tends to correlate with what OP calls "an environment that is mostly unnatural." The destinations (shops, schools, churches, restaurants, etc.) have to be within walking/transit distance of enough people to support them, and it's hard to achieve those numbers and also have natural open horizons.

Indeed! Having lots of buildings in close proximity, that's what walkability is. Now, there are some places where you might be able to get that and also have some natural elements such as mountains or water on the horizon (Salt Lake City, parts of Seattle, hillside/highrise housing in coastal cities). Perhaps this might satisfy OP's need to not feel penned in by manmade objects as far as the eye can see? There might also be places like the outskirts of a college town where you might be able to have a residence with emptier land in your immediate vicinity, while you still have a walkable business/arts/culture district a short bike ride away.

Cranky

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Re: In the US, are walkable/bikeable cities relatively uncommon?
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2024, 11:55:29 AM »
I guess that's essentially what I'm wondering is how uncommon towns/cities are where there's still some semblance of horizon and open space along with planned development for walkability/bikeability. Everything doesn't have to be within a few blocks but the roads can't be so dangerous that no one bikes on them. The smaller suburban towns in Boulder County are like this and it's really nice. I'm wondering if that's an anomaly or more common and we just haven't been other places. Even a denser city would be okay if there are actual trees there and frequent natural areas where one can go but there is something about high rises that instantly gets my hackles up, like humans were not meant to live that way.

For instance, Wilmington, NC is meh for walkability/bikeability. There are very few green spaces. A couple county parks and the rare neighborhood pocket park. No considerable trails or natural areas in the immediate vicinity unless you want to sit on a beach. So it doesn't pass the test.

I think a lot of college towns are like that, based on having lived in Boulder, Ann Arbor, and Madison over the years, though you still have to pick your neighborhood carefully.