Author Topic: In-laws' accident - other party wants money (threatening lawsuit)  (Read 1520 times)

jeromedawg

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Hey all,

So my in-laws were involved in an auto accident this past November (per witness reports and police, they were deemed at fault - a couple other vehicles were involved). The party with the vehicle that sustained the most damage (supposedly it was a total loss) hired a lawyer and sent a letter to my in-laws' insurance company demanding full repayment for medical injuries, pain & suffering, etc. in the amount of a number well over $100k. I don't want to start listing out too many specifics btw...

The insurance company notified my in-laws via email and stated that they are evaluating the claim and hoping to come to a fair settlement with the other party. But they warned that if it's not sufficient per the other party's request, they could end up getting served a lawsuit. There is a time-limit given in the letter from the other party, which seems to imply that they will file the lawsuit.

What should we expect at this point in terms of outcomes? Is it likely that the insurance company will just pay what the other party is asking for? Or will they try to negotiate it down? What are the chances of the settlement falling through and the other party then pursuing direct legal action against my in-laws? What are the next steps that my in-laws should take to safeguard themselves and their assets?

Captain FIRE

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Re: In-laws' accident - other party wants money (threatening lawsuit)
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2023, 09:13:53 PM »
What is the insurance coverage? They’re liable for anything over that amount. Yes, insurance would evaluate the claim and try to negotiate it down if they feel your in-laws are at fault/bad case.* Unknown if the other side would accept though.

*Note that if their insurance coverage is low and the claim high, there is not a huge incentive for the insurance company to negotiate a claim down. In other words, say you have coverage for $20k all told (damage to car, medical, etc.). If the claim is $100k, they feel they can negotiate to $75k, the insured company would still payout the $20k either way. So some insurance companies might not try as hard to negotiate.

Finances_With_Purpose

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Re: In-laws' accident - other party wants money (threatening lawsuit)
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2023, 09:18:35 PM »
Your in-laws need to go see their own lawyer who handles personal injury cases, stat.  Don't post more here.  Don't ask more questions.  Go see a local lawyer. 

In this scenario, everyone but them has a lawyer: the other guy, the insurance.  They need to talk to one who is on their side, even if just for a consultation.  It's worth it given how much is involved. 

Pay for a consult and get the lay of the land from a lawyer you know/trust. 

jeromedawg

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Re: In-laws' accident - other party wants money (threatening lawsuit)
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2023, 09:44:05 PM »
What is the insurance coverage? They’re liable for anything over that amount. Yes, insurance would evaluate the claim and try to negotiate it down if they feel your in-laws are at fault/bad case.* Unknown if the other side would accept though.

*Note that if their insurance coverage is low and the claim high, there is not a huge incentive for the insurance company to negotiate a claim down. In other words, say you have coverage for $20k all told (damage to car, medical, etc.). If the claim is $100k, they feel they can negotiate to $75k, the insured company would still payout the $20k either way. So some insurance companies might not try as hard to negotiate.


Thanks. Their "automobile liability insurance" coverage for "bodily  injury" is $250k/person and $500k/occurrence. For "property damage" it's $100k each occurrence. I think they may have dealt with the claim for the damages to the cars etc but not the medical. It *sounds* like this should be covered under their policy then?

Your in-laws need to go see their own lawyer who handles personal injury cases, stat.  Don't post more here.  Don't ask more questions.  Go see a local lawyer. 

In this scenario, everyone but them has a lawyer: the other guy, the insurance.  They need to talk to one who is on their side, even if just for a consultation.  It's worth it given how much is involved. 

Pay for a consult and get the lay of the land from a lawyer you know/trust. 

Thanks. We just got the letter today so we'll have them reach out to the lawyer who helped with the previous claim (for property damage) and/or the lawyer who helps with their trust at least so he can give general guidance and refer to a lawyer who specializes in this area. Would it be a "personal injury" lawyer?
« Last Edit: February 28, 2023, 09:46:19 PM by jeromedawg »

Michael in ABQ

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Re: In-laws' accident - other party wants money (threatening lawsuit)
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2023, 09:48:05 PM »
They should consult an attorney, but ultimately the other party will have far more success getting money out of the insurance company than a private party. For all they know your in-laws are on the edge of bankruptcy. It's why most lawsuits target people/business with deep pockets (i.e. insurance companies). But if they do have some assets there is definitely a risk.


Personal injury is a crazy world though. I got a few thousand bucks for medical/pain and suffering for a car accident that basically made my neck and shoulder hurt for a few days. That did include a trip to the ER when I felt some numbness and tingling in my arm - but that was just a pinched nerve from the swelling in my shoulder and it only happened once (they gave me something a bit stronger than ibuprofen). I didn't push for anything, just submitted my documents to the other insurance company and they made the call to offer me some cash. I would have been perfectly fine with $500 for missing a day of work and the pain and suffering - actual medical bill was $50 out of pocket. My car was totaled when the other person rear-ended me and smashed in the trunk but it was already a salvage title and worth $1,500 -$2,000 at best.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2023, 07:46:57 AM by Michael in ABQ »

GilesMM

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Re: In-laws' accident - other party wants money (threatening lawsuit)
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2023, 05:17:51 AM »
Threatening a lawsuit (as opposed to filing one) already tells you it is a money shakedown mostly. The insurance companies will work out a settlement. If they are asking for an amount within the policy limits, which is the case 99% of the time, there is no issue for your in-laws. If it moves forward, that is still not an issue as the plaintiffs will still normally settle somewhere along the way rather than risk an averse judgement. It may drag on a long time. Let the insurers manage it. It is a game.


If your in-laws have a lot more than is covered by their insurance or protected by  fed or state law (IRA, Homestead) they should consider an umbrella policy for future misadventures.

lhamo

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Re: In-laws' accident - other party wants money (threatening lawsuit)
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2023, 09:24:42 AM »
I was the at-fault driver in a multi-car accident in 2015.  One of the injured parties sued, claiming the accident had aggravated a pre-existing health condition and left her totally disabled/unable to work.  She hired an "ambulance chaser" type of lawyer who, luckily for me, was pretty bad at his job.  The case drug out through early 2018, when we finally went to trial (after multiple settlement offers).  The period leading up to the trial was INCREDIBLY stressful, because while we had a solid policy (500k limit, similar to your parents), the ambulance chaser was bandying about numbers like a 2 million ask, but willing to settle for 1 million.

For better or worse, I elected to be represented by the insurance company's contracted attorney.  I figured they would not want to pay out a full $500k, so my own liability would hopefully be sufficiently limited at no extra cost to me.  I also googled the plaintiff quite a bit and found major holes in her story, which my lawyer also found. 

Once we got into jury selection, my fears started to dissipate.  While I was at fault, the place the collision occurred was a well-known accident prone area on I5 -- a bottleneck on a bridge where a lane joined just before a small rise that severely limited visibility.  One of the questions my lawyer had in the voir dir was "Have you ever witnessed a collision at [location]?"  which led to a STREAM of comments  confirming how difficult that area was to navigate, including one person whose office looked out at precisely that location on the bridge who commented that they saw accidents/police and fire response there almost daily.  The opposing attorney kicked them from the jury pool, but everybody in the room heard/registered that comment.

I did NOT deny liability. I was going too fast for the conditions and was unable to stop in time and rear-ended the car in front of me, which then hit the car in front of it.  I was NOT playing around with my cell phone (an argument the opposing attorney tried unsuccessfully to make -- bonus points for having a cheap, no data cell plan at the time!   

IIRC insurance company offered to settle for 50k right before the trial.  As things were going badly for the other side, they dropped that to 30k.  In the end the jury was out for just a couple of hours, and awarded just over the 30k that my lawyer said in closing they felt was justified.  I think the final claim by the opposing side had been for right around 1 million.  They paid a shit ton for fancy "experts" who really made a poor case, especially since they tried to hide evidence of prior treatment for the same injuries they claimed the accident caused.

If I could go back and do it all again, I think I probably would have pushed harder for the insurance company to settle at a higher number, say 100k.  The trial drug out for OVER A WEEK (again, because the opposing counsel was so bad and wasted time on things like character witnesses for his client who were totally unnecessary (and probably lying)).  Everyone was annoyed, but it was also very costly for both sides.  On my side alone there were three highly-paid people in the courtroom every day (attorney, paralegal, and insurance adjuster), plus the adjuster's manager a couple of days.  Not to mention all the time spent on discovery (a lot in this case because the opposing party kept trying to hide medical records) and depositions.  It probably would have cost the insurance company less to settle higher.  But I guess the court-related costs probably figure into their balance sheet in some advantageous way.

In sum, I guess I would say that with a 500k policy limit I would be reassured that the initial letter is asking for only 100k, and that it is highly likely that the insurance company will settle and your inlaws won't be liable for anything.  But if they are really concerned they should talk with both the insurance company appointed counsel and possibly a third-party lawyer of their own choosing.  They will probably want to look at someone that regularly DEFENDS against personal injury lawsuits, though someone who regularly brings them might have inside info about common strategies/tactics they might see from both the plaintiff's lawyer and insurance company counsel.

If you want help finding somebody to possibly represent them there is a guy -- Peter Tragos -- who has a great youtube channel called The Lawyer You Know who is pretty widely connected in personal injury (which he practices in Florida) who might be willing/able to give you some names in your area.

tygertygertyger

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Re: In-laws' accident - other party wants money (threatening lawsuit)
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2023, 10:05:18 AM »
I was in a car accident quite a while ago, and as I was a passenger in one of the vehicles, I had to hire a lawyer and sue before the insurance company would talk about money. In that case, there was no question it was the other driver's fault, and we settled with the insurance company for about the full amount the policy offered. (Everyone had injuries except the at-fault driver.)

Recently, my partner ended up on a jury for a car collision, as the insurance companies had been unable to come to an agreement. The medical injuries were clearly the result of the accident, but the plaintiff's lawyer was nearly incompetent. No one explained to the jury how personal injury and insurance companies work in our state, so the jury was largely under the impression that the individual being sued would be out of pocket for the amount. The jury didn't want to award ANYTHING at all, not even to cover the plaintiff's medical expenses. My partner talked them around to covering most of those, with a small amount for having to miss work, etc, but in that case, it seemed like a settlement would have been more beneficial for the plaintiffs.

I was surprised at how... stingy? ... the jury wanted to be. But I also know that without having gone through my own accident/injuries, I wouldn't know how personal injury law works in my state either.

Not sure if these stories are helpful, but good luck to your in-laws!

Catbert

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Re: In-laws' accident - other party wants money (threatening lawsuit)
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2023, 10:16:02 AM »
Sounds like the "ask" is well within the limits of their policy so I wouldn't sweat it too much.  Let the insurance company do its thing.  I don't think there is a reason for hiring a separate attorney at this point.

I do hope you're able to use the accident and the victims' demands to get your in-laws to give up driving.  IIRC they are resistant to giving up driving even though you believed it was more than time.  If they are scared, good.  Next time it could be much worse.

jeromedawg

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Re: In-laws' accident - other party wants money (threatening lawsuit)
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2023, 11:09:05 AM »
Sounds like the "ask" is well within the limits of their policy so I wouldn't sweat it too much.  Let the insurance company do its thing.  I don't think there is a reason for hiring a separate attorney at this point.

I do hope you're able to use the accident and the victims' demands to get your in-laws to give up driving.  IIRC they are resistant to giving up driving even though you believed it was more than time.  If they are scared, good.  Next time it could be much worse.

Yea, I wasn't too sure on the coverage/limits so am a bit relieved after logging in to check. My wife will still forward the letter over to the attorneys JIC.

And yea, I think they've grown a more fearful of driving. My MIL doesn't drive btw - it's only my FIL. We told them that if this happens again they're on their own and we definitely aren't helping them get another car again. Currently they avoid driving when the sun is going down or when it's dark, which is when they got into the accident initially. And they'll try to carpool with friends now when they go to places that are more than 5-10 minutes away... although, in this case they were only 10-15 minutes away from their place when they got into this accident. I know they are more hesitant to drive around to places they aren unfamiliar with (and they are very much still unfamiliar with most of our area). Of course, all that said, just last week they drove back to where they used to live to see their old doctor (this is a 1.5-2hr drive each way). I think they were probably stuck in LA traffic both ways, which almost feels safer than driving at higher speeds on open roads lol

Duke03

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Re: In-laws' accident - other party wants money (threatening lawsuit)
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2023, 12:09:53 PM »
With 250/500/100 limit's I wouldn't sweat it one bit... Now if you had 25/50/25 limits I'd be worried.  The insurance company won't cut anyone a check unless they agree to settle within those limits.  99.9% of all PI lawyers will not go after the at fault party personally they just want the insurance money.  What most attorneys would love to do is get a bad faith claim against your insurance company and thus "open up the policy" that way if they hit a home run at trial and get 1 million in damages the insurance company is on the hook for the entire amount no matter what your policy limits are. Just rest easy knowing that 99% of all lawsuits settle before trial and although this might be the first time your in-laws have ever been sued this is the millionth time their insurance company has been sued and it means nothing.

jeromedawg

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Re: In-laws' accident - other party wants money (threatening lawsuit)
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2023, 12:31:22 PM »
With 250/500/100 limit's I wouldn't sweat it one bit... Now if you had 25/50/25 limits I'd be worried.  The insurance company won't cut anyone a check unless they agree to settle within those limits.  99.9% of all PI lawyers will not go after the at fault party personally they just want the insurance money.  What most attorneys would love to do is get a bad faith claim against your insurance company and thus "open up the policy" that way if they hit a home run at trial and get 1 million in damages the insurance company is on the hook for the entire amount no matter what your policy limits are. Just rest easy knowing that 99% of all lawsuits settle before trial and although this might be the first time your in-laws have ever been sued this is the millionth time their insurance company has been sued and it means nothing.

Interestingly, they used the term "bad faith" multiple times in the letter to insurance (I guess to get their attention?):

"Liability is CLEAR in this case and [insurance company] already accepted liability. Disputing our client's injuries is in bad faith, as our client was genuinely injured due to this accident as evidenced in his medical records."

Is it pretty common for there to be multiple claims that arise from an accident: 1) for personal damages and then 2) for injuries, etc after the fact?

jrhampt

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Re: In-laws' accident - other party wants money (threatening lawsuit)
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2023, 12:46:08 PM »
With 250/500/100 limit's I wouldn't sweat it one bit... Now if you had 25/50/25 limits I'd be worried.  The insurance company won't cut anyone a check unless they agree to settle within those limits.  99.9% of all PI lawyers will not go after the at fault party personally they just want the insurance money.  What most attorneys would love to do is get a bad faith claim against your insurance company and thus "open up the policy" that way if they hit a home run at trial and get 1 million in damages the insurance company is on the hook for the entire amount no matter what your policy limits are. Just rest easy knowing that 99% of all lawsuits settle before trial and although this might be the first time your in-laws have ever been sued this is the millionth time their insurance company has been sued and it means nothing.

Interestingly, they used the term "bad faith" multiple times in the letter to insurance (I guess to get their attention?):

"Liability is CLEAR in this case and [insurance company] already accepted liability. Disputing our client's injuries is in bad faith, as our client was genuinely injured due to this accident as evidenced in his medical records."

Is it pretty common for there to be multiple claims that arise from an accident: 1) for personal damages and then 2) for injuries, etc after the fact?

Yes, I was in a car accident in August - the other guy ran a stop sign and hit me on my driver's side door.  Totalled my car.  That part was straightforward and settled within a couple weeks.

The bodily injury piece is still ongoing because it takes a while for medical bills to get processed, and if there are injuries, treatment can take a while.  You don't settle that claim until the treatment is finished, and insurance may dispute the claim since it's less straightforward than the property damage.  I ended up with an ER/ambulance bill, and I am still finishing up treatment with a chiropractor, so I probably won't have that piece settled until end of March or April.  Edited to add that it may take a little while for the full extent of the injuries to be apparent.  Bodies are weird and back pain can have a delayed onset.  This can make it look suspect, but I experienced it firsthand myself and wouldn't have understood before the accident*.

*although people on this forum did in fact warn me about this!  They were right.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2023, 12:50:04 PM by jrhampt »

YttriumNitrate

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Re: In-laws' accident - other party wants money (threatening lawsuit)
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2023, 01:04:31 PM »
The medical injuries were clearly the result of the accident, but the plaintiff's lawyer was nearly incompetent. No one explained to the jury how personal injury and insurance companies work in our state, so the jury was largely under the impression that the individual being sued would be out of pocket for the amount.
Isn't that done very much on purpose by the courts because indemnification is irrelevant to liability? See e.g., Conn. R. Evid. 4-10 " Evidence that a person was or was not insured against liability is inadmissible upon the issue of whether the person acted negligently or otherwise wrongfully." -- https://casetext.com/rule/connecticut-court-rules/connecticut-code-of-evidence/article-iv-relevancy/section-4-10-liability-insurance


tygertygertyger

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Re: In-laws' accident - other party wants money (threatening lawsuit)
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2023, 01:35:56 PM »
Yes, it's purposeful to not explain to the jury ahead of time. After the case concluded, the judge walked in and answered questions about things.

When a jury is supposed to award the amount for medical expenses and damages, whether someone has insurance would obviously influence their decision. My partner's jury had absolutely no idea how to award fees, and requested guidance on what a standard might be. They were essentially told to use their best judgement, and weren't offered any guidance.

In this case, like I said, the plaintiff's lawyer was somewhat incompetent, or that might've swung things another way. I just couldn't believe that the jury didn't want to award ANY money at all originally, even to cover medical expenses.

I'm sure that my own experience of having been in a bad accident, needing surgery and a stay in the hospital, would influence me in the opposite direction. But assuming that money comes out of an individual's pocket frames things differently.

Finances_With_Purpose

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Re: In-laws' accident - other party wants money (threatening lawsuit)
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2023, 02:46:54 PM »
They should consult an attorney, but ultimately the other party will have far more success getting money out of the insurance company than a private party. For all they know your in-laws are on the edge of bankruptcy. It's why most lawsuits target people/business with deep pockets (i.e. insurance companies). But if they do have some assets there is definitely a risk.


Personal injury is a crazy world though. I got a few thousand bucks for medical/pain and suffering for a car accident that basically made my neck and shoulder hurt for a few days. That did include a trip to the ER when I felt some numbness and tingling in my arm - but that was just a pinched nerve from the swelling in my shoulder and it only happened once (they gave me something a bit stronger than ibuprofen). I didn't push for anything, just submitted my documents to the other insurance company and they made the call to offer me some cash. I would have been perfectly fine with $500 for missing a day of work and the pain and suffering - actual medical bill was $50 out of pocket. My car was totaled when the other person rear-ended me and smashed in the trunk but it was already a salvage title and worth $1,500 -$2,000 at best.

They want to cap their liabilities.  They made you a good offer so that you would take it and run before you discovered some latent shoulder injury or other issue that cost them thousands.  It's well worth it to them to overpay you slightly in order to close out any chance of you asserting serious medical injuries.

I received something similar once for $700 - I did, as my friend who's a personal injury lawyer proposed: "take it and run."