I was sold refurbished for new, what would you do?

[FIRE me]

I bought a Galaxy S5 for $220 on ebay that was advertised to be “New in Original Box” condition, albeit with only partial accessories (no Sim card, no earphones, no quick start guide). But it did come with a battery, a charger, and a cable. All of which appear to be genuine Samsung, and not knock offs. The seller has a 98.5 satisfaction rating and over 100,000 sales.

The e-bay listing did not mention the word “refurbished.” One exception, his e-bay store description does say "Great Deals On New, Used, & Refurbished Cell Phones!" But that was not part of the phone description.

The S5 I got does work perfectly, and is cosmetically perfect. There were no fingerprints anywhere on the phone, and no finger prints inside the battery compartment.

The problem is, I have reason to believe the phone is factory refurbished. There was no plastic membrane stuck to the phone screen or the back cover, as is just about universal for new premium electronics.

But what made it apparent was a sticker inside the box that said:
“Tested for Full functions, R2/Ready for Reuse”

Googling the  above phrase took me to an industry website that makes clear that “R2/Ready for Reuse” is a repair standard to be met for refurbished electronics and that <b>"Products with this label are sold to end users and are equivalent to new products<b/>, ready to be used out of the box with minimal setup.” (my bold).

Still, I probably would not have paid the amount that I did for a refurbished device. I know refurbished can be fine, but I am always concerned that the defect (whatever it was) may not have been truly and properly fixed.

I've thought about returning it, but I'm already invested in the phone. I've spent several hours customizing Android settings, installing apps, and importing data. And I like the phone. So I don't really want to return it.

What do you Mustachians think? Is it OK to sell refurbished as “new” on e-bay? Was I cheated, at least a little? Or am I too picky?

[KBecks]

Contact the seller, complain politely, explain your concern over the lack of the protective films, and then ask for a reasonable partial refund, explaining that you would not have paid as much or bid as much for refurbished.  Or you can ask to return, it depends on what you want.  Decide what you want and ask politely.  Most sellers should be understanding and polite to you too.

[ltt]

The price of a new Galaxy S5 new is over $500 from what I can tell on retailer sites.  Are you willing to pay that?  I'm assuming that the $200 you paid was a fair price to pay, but I wouldn't be expecting to pay a couple hundred dollars for a brand new in box phone.  It's just not realistic.

[FIRE me]

The price of a new Galaxy S5 new is over $500 from what I can tell on retailer sites.  Are you willing to pay that?  I'm assuming that the $200 you paid was a fair price to pay, but I wouldn't be expecting to pay a couple hundred dollars for a brand new in box phone.  It's just not realistic.

Can you show me where they are selling for $500? The S5 a very old phone to get $500.

I searched, and the first one I came up with was a new AT&T S5 for $250 on Amazon (I'm on Sprint / Ting).
https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Galaxy-S5-Black-16GB/dp/B00IZ1XA94

[FIRE me]

Contact the seller, complain politely, explain your concern over the lack of the protective films, and then ask for a reasonable partial refund, explaining that you would not have paid as much or bid as much for refurbished.  Or you can ask to return, it depends on what you want.  Decide what you want and ask politely.  Most sellers should be understanding and polite to you too.

Yeah, I thought about that. It would be a reasonable request. But I hate to be "that guy" who whines and chisels. I'm inclined to keep the phone, or lacking that, I'd rather ask for a return and a full refund.

[ltt]

The price of a new Galaxy S5 new is over $500 from what I can tell on retailer sites.  Are you willing to pay that?  I'm assuming that the $200 you paid was a fair price to pay, but I wouldn't be expecting to pay a couple hundred dollars for a brand new in box phone.  It's just not realistic.

Can you show me where they are selling for $500? The S5 a very old phone to get $500.

I searched, and the first one I came up with was a new AT&T S5 for $250 on Amazon (I'm on Sprint / Ting).
https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Galaxy-S5-Black-16GB/dp/B00IZ1XA94

V*erizon
T M*obile runs close to $500

 

[Retire-Canada]

What do you Mustachians think? Is it OK to sell refurbished as “new” on e-bay? Was I cheated, at least a little? Or am I too picky?

You are too picky. If the phone looks and works as new. Just get on with your life. You've wasted too many precious moments already worrying about it that you will never get back.

[Blatant]

I'd enjoy my new phone.

[FIRE me]

The price of a new Galaxy S5 new is over $500 from what I can tell on retailer sites.  Are you willing to pay that?  I'm assuming that the $200 you paid was a fair price to pay, but I wouldn't be expecting to pay a couple hundred dollars for a brand new in box phone.  It's just not realistic.

Can you show me where they are selling for $500? The S5 a very old phone to get $500.

I searched, and the first one I came up with was a new AT&T S5 for $250 on Amazon (I'm on Sprint / Ting).
https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Galaxy-S5-Black-16GB/dp/B00IZ1XA94

V*erizon
T M*obile runs close to $500

OK, $480 at T-Mobile. Badly overpriced, in my opinion, for a phone that is about to be three release cycles behind. I'll bet they get few takers at that price.

Overpriced as it may be, I see that as different from buying a surplus closeout on e-bay. Buy from T-Mobile and the 1 year factory warranty is valid. There is added value there, just not $250 worth, in my opinion.

[FIRE me]

What do you Mustachians think? Is it OK to sell refurbished as “new” on e-bay? Was I cheated, at least a little? Or am I too picky?

You are too picky. If the phone looks and works as new. Just get on with your life. You've wasted too many precious moments already worrying about it that you will never get back.

Thanks, and I think you and Blatant are probably right.

[starguru]

That would certainly bug the hell out of me.  When something is labeled "new" I would expect it to be, um, new, and that if I purchased I would be the first owner, or at least the first to open the packaging. 

Do you have an idea of an alternative you want?  If you do you could ask to return and buy the alternative.

Or, just out of principle, you could query the seller and find out if the phone is in fact refurbished and see what they say.  As already mentioned by someone else you could (legitimately) get yourself a partial refund.

Do be afraid of being "that person".  You have to advocate for yourself.  If you don't people will walk all over you.  I've never used ebay but read they have a very pro-consumer policy.  If you mention this to them you could probably get a full refund. 

[ketchup]

Yeah, I'd be pretty pissed.  A refurb S5 can be had for ~$170 online these days.  I'd bitch at the seller and ask for a refund of the difference, then just use the phone and move on.  It's probably perfectly usable.

[Eggman111]

I found out after just under a year that a phone I had bought "new" was actually refurnished (LG/Google Nexus 5). The reason I found out was because it started turning off randomly and I contacted the manufacturer for warranty service. When they looked up the serial number, they told me it was refurbished so it wasn't under warranty. I had bought it through Amazon and managed to get a full refund for a return despite the length of time that had passed (so at least it turned out OK though it was a hassle).

I share my story because that could be a downside for you if you have any issues with the phone: it won't be under the original warranty. On the other hand, manufacturer warranties are often difficult to collect on, so it may not be that important to you, but keep that in mind.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

[Rural]

Up to you whether you care or not, but this is a case of fraud.

[FIRE me]

I found out after just under a year that a phone I had bought "new" was actually refurnished (LG/Google Nexus 5). The reason I found out was because it started turning off randomly and I contacted the manufacturer for warranty service. When they looked up the serial number, they told me it was refurbished so it wasn't under warranty. I had bought it through Amazon and managed to get a full refund for a return despite the length of time that had passed (so at least it turned out OK though it was a hassle).

I share my story because that could be a downside for you if you have any issues with the phone: it won't be under the original warranty. On the other hand, manufacturer warranties are often difficult to collect on, so it may not be that important to you, but keep that in mind.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

Since I bought from a third party (e-bay seller) and not a carrier, I already assumed that the Samsung warranty is not valid.

I did email the seller, and told them why I think I “may” have gotten a refurbished device, and asked if possibly they shipped me a refurbished unit by mistake.

The seller answered and says that the unit I got was new and never used. He said they buy large closeout lots (obviously true), but since the stock is old, they open each box, remove the protective plastic from the screen, test each device, update the software, re-box it and then ship it.

He says that the “R2 ready for reuse” sticker is purely an internal sticker that they use so that they know who tested the phone, and that the phone is new and not refurbished. That seems a little bit unlikely to me, but I have no proof to the contrary.

The sticker does list a “tested by” and “inspected by” section. Which of course it also would for a refurbished device.

I am naturally suspicious of people (not a good thing, but I am what I am and I have no desire to change). I can't rule out what they say being factual. Evidence supporting what they say is that none of the tiny screws inside the phone show any scratches. Which would be strong evidence of the phone having been disassembled for repair.

I like the phone way too much to return it. The S5, in my opinion, is the last good Galaxy phone. Conveniently replaceable battery, cheap and swappable MicroSD storage, and water resistant to boot. As far as I know, no current flagship phone from anyone offers all of those features.

Plus I like to adjust hundreds of settings in Android and the installed apps to get the phone exactly the way I like it. Some of it is purely cosmetic, other settings are because I am a bit of a privacy freak, and I turn this and that off and deny permissions to a lot of programs. I have a good three or four hours of my time into tinkering and getting it just the way I want it.

So I guess it is a keeper, and only time will tell if it is reliable.

[Eggman111]

Well, I'm still using my wife's old S5 after she had it for 2 years and now I've had it for almost another year. I hope mine lasts too! :)

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

[KBecks]

That sounds like a reasonable explanation.  Enjoy your new phone.

[Pigeon]

I just bought two used S5s from Swappa for $125 each.  They were listed as being in "good" condition and they appear to be in perfect condition.  I think you got a refurbished phone and I would leave a review indicating that I strongly suspect that.

[bacchi]

The seller answered and says that the unit I got was new and never used. He said they buy large closeout lots (obviously true), but since the stock is old, they open each box, remove the protective plastic from the screen, test each device, update the software, re-box it and then ship it.

He says that the “R2 ready for reuse” sticker is purely an internal sticker that they use so that they know who tested the phone, and that the phone is new and not refurbished. That seems a little bit unlikely to me, but I have no proof to the contrary.

The sticker does list a “tested by” and “inspected by” section. Which of course it also would for a refurbished device.

That's the biggest piece of horseshit I've read in a while. Of course, the "refurb" could be just as they described but the sticker is definitely not an internal sticker.

https://sustainableelectronics.org/news/2015/10/30/seri-microsoft-pcrr-launch-r2-ready-reuse-label-pilot

If you care, call up Samsung to register the warranty. They'll tell you if it's a refurb.

[Daley]

Just a couple observations and questions to help FIRE me better understand and to perhaps temper the outrage from some of the other posters.

1) You stated:

The S5, in my opinion, is the last good Galaxy phone. Conveniently replaceable battery, cheap and swappable MicroSD storage, and water resistant to boot.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the standard S5 has an actual surviving IP rating (though they marketed it to be water resistant on launch - and frequently failed), but the S5 Active does have a legit IP67 rating. For clarity sake, are we talking bog standard S5 or S5 Active, here?

If we're talking S5 Active, the price seems reasonable to me even for a full refurb. If not, there's still a couple other questions worth asking.

2) What carrier was the phone branded to, and was it advertised as carrier unlocked?

This too, is an important question. If it was NIB old overstock from AT&T or T-Mobile (or other) and sold carrier unlocked, that means that the box technically had to be opened, the phone turned on, the device carrier unlocked and tested. From a strictly legal standpoint, once the seal has been busted from the factory, a phone can no longer technically be sold as "factory new", and even if nothing was done to it or it was barely touched or simply touched for the sake of a function change, the device firmly enters into "open box" or "refurbished" territory.

If the device was carrier unlocked, this too can justify a higher price discrepancy over locked devices, and the price is still reasonably in line.

Additionally, if the device was carrier unlocked, but originally sold as carrier locked, the unlocking process technically throws it into "refurbished" territory legally. This tips that particular hat:

The seller answered and says that the unit I got was new and never used. He said they buy large closeout lots (obviously true), but since the stock is old, they open each box, remove the protective plastic from the screen, test each device, update the software, re-box it and then ship it.

He says that the “R2 ready for reuse” sticker is purely an internal sticker that they use so that they know who tested the phone, and that the phone is new and not refurbished.

This process of aftermarket unlocking would definitely void the factory warranty (I'm guessing no factory warranty was advertised and included, right?) and would require registering the IMEI as refurbished stock, and some bulk new-old-stock devices usually get the serial numbers flagged as refurb as well as part of the reduced pricing to liquidate inventory without the manufacturer taking a financial hit on warranty work. Fortunately, it sounds like the seller was nice enough to do more than just unlock the devices (if that was part of the deal) but bring them current on firmware to boot and adhere to R2 standards in their testing. Good on them.

As has been pointed out by Bacchi, R2 is a refurbishing standard. However, I'm not going to ascribe malice and vulgarities where ignorance and spirit is sufficient to explain the situation.

Although the seller's representative who handles listings/feedback might not be aware of or is treading a dangerous line on legal definitions of "new" and "refurbished", ignorance of a new employee could account for this and the explanation (remember, the seller had 100k+ sales on Ebay alone) or they were trying to assuage fears of more technically ignorant buyers without writing a wall of text like I am. In a sort of philosophical spirit, the phone would be new in that it was never "used", but it is no longer factory new. They broke the seal, they may have carrier unlocked the phone, and they definitely brought the firmware current and tested the device for basic functionality. That requires "using" the device. So, yes, refurb with chain of custody technically and not factory new... and without seeing or reading the listing myself, I don't know how far over the potential legal line they may have inadvertently tap-danced over and that point could be problematic from not just a legal standpoint, but an ethical one as well. However, it could very easily be "factory new with only the changes and testing performed" refurbished, and not actually "this device was used, had a defect, was repaired and sold as new" refurbished. I suspect the first situation and not the second. In that spirit, it is new, but it is also refurbished due to the liquidation supply chain and any device changes made.

Might this help clarify?

[frugaliknowit]

The time to complain was BEFORE you messed with it...

At this point, I would "suck it up"...  If it doesn't hold up, you might be able to make a claim using your credit card.

Personally, since I have no backup (landline or viable backup phone), I don't buy phones on-line.  I DO pay more for speed and better backing.  I can't wait for delivery and dicker around with ebay sellers for this purpose.

[tralfamadorian]

The seller answered and says that the unit I got was new and never used. He said they buy large closeout lots (obviously true), but since the stock is old, they open each box, remove the protective plastic from the screen, test each device, update the software, re-box it and then ship it.

He says that the “R2 ready for reuse” sticker is purely an internal sticker that they use so that they know who tested the phone, and that the phone is new and not refurbished. That seems a little bit unlikely to me, but I have no proof to the contrary.

The sticker does list a “tested by” and “inspected by” section. Which of course it also would for a refurbished device.

That's the biggest piece of horseshit I've read in a while. Of course, the "refurb" could be just as they described but the sticker is definitely not an internal sticker.

https://sustainableelectronics.org/news/2015/10/30/seri-microsoft-pcrr-launch-r2-ready-reuse-label-pilot

If you care, call up Samsung to register the warranty. They'll tell you if it's a refurb.

+1

The seller's explanation is a scam.  No reseller would alter new phones/packaging in the way they describe.  Attempt to register it to confirm and once you have evidence that it is not new, start the refund process with EBay.  Ebay is very pro-buyer and you would win easily in this situation. 

[tallen]

Contact eBay directly as well as the seller you bought from. I had the same thing happen and only found out it was refurbished when the phone stopped working while under the manufacturers warranty and I called to have it fixed/replaced. Found out it was out of warranty because it was a refurbished unit. Luckily the manufacturer honored the warranty since I could prove from the ebay listing and my receipt that it was sold to me as "new". The seller disappeared from eBay, I'm thinking involuntarily as the eBay reps I spoke with where as unhappy with me being cheated as I was. They had me send in a copy of an email from the manufacturer stating it was a refurbished unit that was out of warranty and he quickly disappeared after that.

[wonkette]

Contact eBay directly as well as the seller you bought from. I had the same thing happen and only found out it was refurbished when the phone stopped working while under the manufacturers warranty and I called to have it fixed/replaced. Found out it was out of warranty because it was a refurbished unit. Luckily the manufacturer honored the warranty since I could prove from the ebay listing and my receipt that it was sold to me as "new". The seller disappeared from eBay, I'm thinking involuntarily as the eBay reps I spoke with where as unhappy with me being cheated as I was. They had me send in a copy of an email from the manufacturer stating it was a refurbished unit that was out of warranty and he quickly disappeared after that.

Something very similar happened to me but the store was more established and did not disappear. Even with a store with 100,000+ sales a recent one star review or report to ebay will damage their rating and the way they appear in searches. You have some power here as a consumer. I would send the seller the links others have posted and rattle your sword a little about reporting to ebay. In my story I ended up with a partial refund that brought the phone down to a reasonable price and it lasted about 18 months.

[tallen]

Contact eBay directly as well as the seller you bought from. I had the same thing happen and only found out it was refurbished when the phone stopped working while under the manufacturers warranty and I called to have it fixed/replaced. Found out it was out of warranty because it was a refurbished unit. Luckily the manufacturer honored the warranty since I could prove from the ebay listing and my receipt that it was sold to me as "new". The seller disappeared from eBay, I'm thinking involuntarily as the eBay reps I spoke with where as unhappy with me being cheated as I was. They had me send in a copy of an email from the manufacturer stating it was a refurbished unit that was out of warranty and he quickly disappeared after that.

Something very similar happened to me but the store was more established and did not disappear. Even with a store with 100,000+ sales a recent one star review or report to ebay will damage their rating and the way they appear in searches. You have some power here as a consumer. I would send the seller the links others have posted and rattle your sword a little about reporting to ebay. In my story I ended up with a partial refund that brought the phone down to a reasonable price and it lasted about 18 months.

I remember them saying they had several other complaints against this seller for the same thing so it wasn't just my complaint that did it. He was an established seller also with thousands of reviews and hundreds of listings. I think they may have been already building a case against him to ban him from eBay by the time I came along with my complaint.

[FIRE me]

The seller answered and says that the unit I got was new and never used. He said they buy large closeout lots (obviously true), but since the stock is old, they open each box, remove the protective plastic from the screen, test each device, update the software, re-box it and then ship it.

He says that the “R2 ready for reuse” sticker is purely an internal sticker that they use so that they know who tested the phone, and that the phone is new and not refurbished. That seems a little bit unlikely to me, but I have no proof to the contrary.

The sticker does list a “tested by” and “inspected by” section. Which of course it also would for a refurbished device.

That's the biggest piece of horseshit I've read in a while. Of course, the "refurb" could be just as they described but the sticker is definitely not an internal sticker.

https://sustainableelectronics.org/news/2015/10/30/seri-microsoft-pcrr-launch-r2-ready-reuse-label-pilot

If you care, call up Samsung to register the warranty. They'll tell you if it's a refurb.

You're right. I got on chat with Samsung, and the phone is refurbished.

[FIRE me]

The time to complain was BEFORE you messed with it...

At this point, I would "suck it up"...  If it doesn't hold up, you might be able to make a claim using your credit card.

All I would need to do is a factory reset. I did not root the phone. The Knox flag is not tripped.

[FIRE me]

Contact eBay directly as well as the seller you bought from. I had the same thing happen and only found out it was refurbished when the phone stopped working while under the manufacturers warranty and I called to have it fixed/replaced. Found out it was out of warranty because it was a refurbished unit. Luckily the manufacturer honored the warranty since I could prove from the ebay listing and my receipt that it was sold to me as "new". The seller disappeared from eBay, I'm thinking involuntarily as the eBay reps I spoke with where as unhappy with me being cheated as I was. They had me send in a copy of an email from the manufacturer stating it was a refurbished unit that was out of warranty and he quickly disappeared after that.

I may end up doing that (involving e-bay). First, I will confront the seller with the Samsung chat transcript that says it is a refurbished unit.

[FIRE me]

Contact eBay directly as well as the seller you bought from. I had the same thing happen and only found out it was refurbished when the phone stopped working while under the manufacturers warranty and I called to have it fixed/replaced. Found out it was out of warranty because it was a refurbished unit. Luckily the manufacturer honored the warranty since I could prove from the ebay listing and my receipt that it was sold to me as "new". The seller disappeared from eBay, I'm thinking involuntarily as the eBay reps I spoke with where as unhappy with me being cheated as I was. They had me send in a copy of an email from the manufacturer stating it was a refurbished unit that was out of warranty and he quickly disappeared after that.

Something very similar happened to me but the store was more established and did not disappear. Even with a store with 100,000+ sales a recent one star review or report to ebay will damage their rating and the way they appear in searches. You have some power here as a consumer. I would send the seller the links others have posted and rattle your sword a little about reporting to ebay. In my story I ended up with a partial refund that brought the phone down to a reasonable price and it lasted about 18 months.

I think that is good advice and I will ask for a substantial price adjustment. No way I would have paid $220 for a refurbished device. In other items, I have had both good and bad luck with refurbs. Like most people, I am more loss adverse than is logical, so I stopped buying refurb.

Still, if the seller will give me a decent adjustment, I would call it a day.

I've already bought a case and a spare battery, so at this point a return a full refund would not make me whole.

[FIRE me]

Seller offered a full refund or a $20 adjustment.

I've already bought a Sim card, a case, and a spare battery (about $30 total), and spent my time setting up the phone, so I told them that a full refund would not make me whole.

I told them that I didn't think that $20 was close to being the difference between a new phone and a refurbished phone. I asked for $75, and as of now, no answer to that.

[nexus]

Contact eBay directly. Escalate the issue and I can almost guarantee you 100% that eBay will refund your full purchase price AND let you keep the phone. Plus you have the seller admitting fault/guilt so eBay doesn't take that sh*t lightly.  Here's customer support's number: 866-540-3229 (google search to confirm this).

Why is this such a big deal? Well, the phone was refurbished. It has been USED. It already has X miles on it, meaning it will break down X much faster. Plus, you have no idea who "refurbished" the phone and what their standards are. That's like paying brand new car price for a car with 30k miles. You drive it for 40k miles and suddenly it needs a repair because it actually has 70k mi on the odometer. Bad example, but you get the point. You have no idea what kind of condition the hardware is in. You just know it looks pretty for now.

Best of luck! It's the seller's fault for false advertising/being careless. With 1000+ reviews/sales they know what they're doing.

[FIRE me]

Thanks for the information, nexus. I didn't know e-bay would go that far. I thought my nuclear option would complain to e-bay (and at best get a partial credit), and write a letter to the Attorney General in both states.

While it might be justifiable – since it does appear that they may be knowingly selling refurbished phones for new – I am not at all comfortable with keeping the phone and paying $0 for it.

The seller came back with an offer of a $55 refund, which brings the cost down to $165. I accepted their offer, and less than one minute after I sent the email, I had an email from Pay Pal informing me of the $55 credit.

As for the quality of the repairs, that is the $165 question. I would guess that since Samsung knows it is a refurb, it was either at a factory authorized facility or at the factory itself.

The phone is cosmetically perfect. With the back off, no screws are boogered or scratched. Everything lines up, inside and outside. The phone has no glitches. I've used all the functions that matter to me.

I know it isn't literally “good as new”, but for $165 I'm willing to take my chances with it. It sure beats the S2 that I was using.

[Syonyk]

Dude.

You're a Buyer.  On eBay.  They'll suck you off if you file a claim.  The buyer is always right, period, the end, doesn't matter what the seller said, did, advertised, anything.  Buyer wins.

Source: I've sold a lot of crap on eBay, including items clearly and specifically listed as "Used, parts only," "Untested," "I do not have the equipment to test this item, so please understand that you are buying as-is, untested", etc - and had to refund money because one of them didn't work when the buyer tested it.  After said buyer paid nearly nothing for it because it was untested, which I'm fine with.

File an "Item not as advertised" claim if the seller is jacking you around and either demand a partial refund or that they take it back, and eBay will side with you.