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Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: Emergo on March 16, 2016, 08:55:17 PM

Title: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Emergo on March 16, 2016, 08:55:17 PM
But i must resist..... agh!!!!

My current laptop is over 10 years old. I know people will trash the macbook and say there are other computers better and less expensive. But i love apple and im tired of windows. Ive never had a macbook btw. I just appreciate them more after having owned an iphone then a note 4... and now i want to go back to an iphone 7.

Must resist...
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: jmr5x on March 16, 2016, 08:56:33 PM
folowing
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: trashmanz on March 16, 2016, 09:00:23 PM
Just get a 2009-2011 13" macbook pro for around $500, solid and responsive if you put in more ram and an SSD.  That should satisfy the urge and get you 90% of what the new macs do. 
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Emergo on March 16, 2016, 09:04:36 PM
Just get a 2009-2011 13" macbook pro for around $500, solid and responsive if you put in more ram and an SSD.  That should satisfy the urge and get you 90% of what the new macs do.

The 2015 MB 12" retina looks so nice.... albeit only 1 port. Maybe the refresh coming in the next few weeks will be much better... ugh!! Sorry...
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: meyling on March 16, 2016, 09:32:04 PM
I'm not going to try to convince you to get a different laptop, but I'm just wondering, what is the fascination with macs? I know so many people that always choose mac or really want one despite the outrageous price. I just don't understand the appeal.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: GoingConcern on March 16, 2016, 09:36:14 PM
Just get a 2009-2011 13" macbook pro for around $500, solid and responsive if you put in more ram and an SSD.  That should satisfy the urge and get you 90% of what the new macs do.

The 2015 MB 12" retina looks so nice.... albeit only 1 port. Maybe the refresh coming in the next few weeks will be much better... ugh!! Sorry...

Just bought one on ebay for $850 (after 10% ebay bucks.)

Expensive but my wife likes it. 
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Kris on March 16, 2016, 09:37:39 PM
I'm not going to try to convince you to get a different laptop, but I'm just wondering, what is the fascination with macs? I know so many people that always choose mac or really want one despite the outrageous price. I just don't understand the appeal.

I have used both Mac and PC for the better part of thirty years. Macs just... Work better for the average non-computer science person. They generally feel aesthetically better, they crash less often, they are more user-friendly... I have never flown into a blind rage using my Mac in the same way I frequently do using the Asus we have at home.

Excoriate me if you want, PC users. But give me a Mac over a PC any day.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: madmax on March 16, 2016, 09:47:04 PM
Quote
Excoriate me if you want, PC users. But give me a Mac over a PC any day.

Not excoriating you but I felt the same as you until Snow Leopard came out. Since then, OS X has been going downhill with a lot of extra fluff added (material design, iOS features). I use a Macbook for work and it reboots itself  frequently and also has problems connecting to WiFi. This is anecdotal evidence but a couple of other ex-mac people at work gave the reason for dumping OS X.

OP: Have you considered that the Macbook you're looking at only comes with 8GB of RAM? That is criminal in this day and age. Chrome running a few tabs and HD video will be enough to bring it down.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Emergo on March 16, 2016, 09:48:13 PM
Just get a 2009-2011 13" macbook pro for around $500, solid and responsive if you put in more ram and an SSD.  That should satisfy the urge and get you 90% of what the new macs do.

The 2015 MB 12" retina looks so nice.... albeit only 1 port. Maybe the refresh coming in the next few weeks will be much better... ugh!! Sorry...

Just bought one on ebay for $850 (after 10% ebay bucks.)

Expensive but my wife likes it.

What... is this safe? If i could find a deal like that
.. wow
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: GoingConcern on March 16, 2016, 09:55:22 PM
Just get a 2009-2011 13" macbook pro for around $500, solid and responsive if you put in more ram and an SSD.  That should satisfy the urge and get you 90% of what the new macs do.

The 2015 MB 12" retina looks so nice.... albeit only 1 port. Maybe the refresh coming in the next few weeks will be much better... ugh!! Sorry...

Just bought one on ebay for $850 (after 10% ebay bucks.)

Expensive but my wife likes it.

What... is this safe? If i could find a deal like that
.. wow

Why wouldn't it be safe?  Ebay and Paypal tend to be pro-Buyer and you can verify the warranty of the labtop if you obtain the serial number before hand.  Paypal offers 6 months buyer protection IIRC.   

I have bought many Apple products on eBay and I usually go after the following:

1) Items still under warranty.  If something breaks in a few months I can go to Apple and have them repair it.

2) Sellers with good ratings.  If a seller has thousands of reviews then they are probably just as legitimate as any big box retailer

3) Items with lots of pictures.

You do run the risk of obtaining an item that was opened and tampered with which could void the warranty but it's a risk I'm willing to take.

I then re-sell the items on craigslist/ebay and since apple products have good resale value I don't lose that much. 
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: lbmustache on March 16, 2016, 10:00:20 PM
There are always deals on Groupon or Ebay. I think my brother just got an iMac for like $300 off. Apple also has refurbished computers on their site for discounts (not sure of the link but you can just google).

10 years is a long time for a computer... no judgement on my end if you get a new one :)
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Lagom on March 16, 2016, 10:02:32 PM
Quote
Excoriate me if you want, PC users. But give me a Mac over a PC any day.
OP: Have you considered that the Macbook you're looking at only comes with 8GB of RAM? That is criminal in this day and age. Chrome running a few tabs and HD video will be enough to bring it down.

My Macbook pro has 8gb and it's rare that I don't have 10, if not 20+ tabs open, which I don't bother to close if I decide to stream netflix, play a game, etc. Other than getting a bit hot (this pretty much only happens with certain games), I have had zero issues with this.

Always been a PC guy, but I've been surprised how much I love my Mac (it was gifted to me a year ago), and it is now the one that I primarily use for day to day tasks. Not sure it's worth the cost to buy another when this one breaks down (expecting at least 6-7+ years based on what I've read), but I never would have even considered it before, until I actually had the experience of owning one. The desktop rig is still there for heavy gaming, when I need it :)
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: nanana13 on March 16, 2016, 10:03:08 PM
I don't understand the fascination with Macs either. o_O  I like the iPhones, but prefer PC's for my computing needs.

But since this is something that you really want , and if you are able to meet all of your other financial obligations, then why not? Maybe budget $X amount each month to a "Dream computer" fund.

I'm doing something similar for a new iPhone, since I have the 5 from 2013 and want to have money budgeted in case that it breaks or I lose it. I'm almost at my goal to get a 6S with 64gb BUT I'm still hesitant to go out and buy it. I'll try to squeeze the 5 as long as I can.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: nanana13 on March 16, 2016, 10:06:07 PM
There are always deals on Groupon or Ebay. I think my brother just got an iMac for like $300 off. Apple also has refurbished computers on their site for discounts (not sure of the link but you can just google).

10 years is a long time for a computer... no judgement on my end if you get a new one :)

I'm typing this from my Chromebook that I got on Groupon. :) $180 with free shipping.
There's lots of good deals there - all refurbished, of course.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: cchrissyy on March 16, 2016, 10:10:11 PM
my kids have 2010 and 2011 macbooks that were only $250 on craigslist (if I recall).
Used, handmedown type computers that perform fine for their needs.

 If your laptop is over 10 years old I bet it would feel like a step up for very little money.

Course, I don't know how big craigslist is in your area.   http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=macbook+white&sort=rel&hasPic=1
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Jon_Snow on March 16, 2016, 10:20:26 PM
I hear ya OP...I'm still using a 10 year old desktop running VISTA.

I want some shiny and powerful. :)
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: CCCA on March 16, 2016, 10:33:14 PM
get a 2011-12 13" macbook pro core i5 on ebay.  They seem to be selling around $500.  Then upgrade the ram and SSD for about $100 and you'll have a great machine that will last you at least 5 more years.


The thing about computers I've noticed is that after I bought my last new computer in 2011, I haven't really felt the urge to upgrade as computers don't seem to have gotten that much faster, though they have gotten much thinner and lighter (macs) and battery life has improved quite a bit as well.  But from a functionality point of view, they are pretty solid.   
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: FIRE me on March 16, 2016, 11:11:17 PM
I have used both Mac and PC for the better part of thirty years. Macs just... Work better for the average non-computer science person. They generally feel aesthetically better, they crash less often, they are more user-friendly... I have never flown into a blind rage using my Mac in the same way I frequently do using the Asus we have at home.

Excoriate me if you want, PC users. But give me a Mac over a PC any day.

Maybe it's not the PC, it's the OS. My Linux PC just about never makes me angry. On the other hand, 10 minutes on Windows 8.0 on my dual boot laptop, and I am fit to be tied.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Kris on March 17, 2016, 07:28:43 AM
I have used both Mac and PC for the better part of thirty years. Macs just... Work better for the average non-computer science person. They generally feel aesthetically better, they crash less often, they are more user-friendly... I have never flown into a blind rage using my Mac in the same way I frequently do using the Asus we have at home.

Excoriate me if you want, PC users. But give me a Mac over a PC any day.

Maybe it's not the PC, it's the OS. My Linux PC just about never makes me angry. On the other hand, 10 minutes on Windows 8.0 on my dual boot laptop, and I am fit to be tied.

Well, as I said in that post, I have been using both Mac and PC for thirty years, at home and at work. So no, it isn't (just) the OS. Though Windows 8.0 is a pile of steaming dogshit, yes. Thankfully, we haven't switched to Windows 10 yet, and don't plan to.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: tomatops on March 17, 2016, 07:52:51 AM
Also looking for a new laptop to replace my 2011 MacBook Pro, but it cost so damn much when I bought it ($1500 CAD), that I need to get 6 years out of it to make it worth it. It worked great for about 3.5 years...

The way I see: I'll probably go for a PC come 2017 or 2016 Black Friday/Boxing Day. The Lenovo's out there are getting great reviews and are significantly cheaper and I'll probably get 3 years out of $700 anyway.

My allegiance to Apple's aesthetics and "feel" ended when I discovered MMM.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: ooeei on March 17, 2016, 08:17:17 AM
But i must resist..... agh!!!!

My current laptop is over 10 years old. I know people will trash the macbook and say there are other computers better and less expensive. But i love apple and im tired of windows. Ive never had a macbook btw. I just appreciate them more after having owned an iphone then a note 4... and now i want to go back to an iphone 7.

Must resist...

What additional functionality will you get out of a MacBook vs a $400 PC?  Is there something you need to do that can only be done on the MacBook?

edit:  Something I do when I get an itch for some shiny new thing, is wait a month.  Just wait one month and see if you still want it so badly.  I suspect after a month you'll have found something else you'd rather spend the money on.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: lifejoy on March 17, 2016, 08:30:56 AM
I bought a laptop.

Two months later, I sold it for the price I paid for it. It was like new - I had barely touched it. I only used my phone and ipad.

Do you have other devices that could replace your laptop?
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: redbird on March 17, 2016, 10:18:15 AM
I see some people mentioning buying an older Macbook. One advantage older Macbooks have is they still have ethernet ports. All of the newer Macbooks don't. I believe 2012 year models might have been the last year to have ethernet ports in them. I've occasionally been to hotels and other places that plugging into ethernet is the only option to get online. That's becoming more and more rare, but still.

I have a 2012 Macbook. It was purchased in late 2011, right when they switched to the early 2012 model. It's my first Apple product. I bought it because I was curious about Macs. To be honest, there's certain things I like about it, but I don't feel it was worth the premium cost. Parts that work properly with it tend to cost more than similar products for Windows/Linux computers too. As a gamer, I also had to set up dual booting with Windows anyway to play certain games, so it can be inconvenient at times.

Whenever this one gets too old, I plan to go back to Windows.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: jeromedawg on March 17, 2016, 10:26:56 AM
I've been pretty happy with my 2013 Macbook Air 13". Lightweight and it has enough power to decently play games to the likes of Deus Ex Human Revolution, Left 4 Dead, Bioshock Infinite. Plus fits all our other needs for web browsing, Facetiming with family, etc. I do like the built-in terminal as well for interfacing with my Linux devices. For the longest time I avoided buying anything Apple... in fact, this MBA is technically [mostly] paid for by my old company (I received an MBA 11" as part of taking a educational course during 2013 for which I received tuition reimbursement for, flipped it on ebay, and then waited for a deal on a MBA 13" and jumped... I think I spent no more than $200-300 out of pocket for it). Considering how good the MBA has been for me, I'm not sure I'd *need* to get a Macbook Pro... it would definitely be nicer though :) I'm sure people can hype it up and sure it might be a luxury but that doesn't discount the fact that it is pretty painless to use (don't have to worry about installing or reimaging Windows yourself because you wanted a certain edition without a bunch of random Dell/HP/etc bloatware) - you just turn the Macbook on and everything *is* - and unless something catastrophic happens, then you have to worry about reinstalling Mac OS X, but that's pretty rare. You get what you pay for... but definitely look for deals and consider older models (you don't need the latest and greatest to be happy)
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Kris on March 17, 2016, 10:47:19 AM
I've been pretty happy with my 2013 Macbook Air 13". Lightweight and it has enough power to decently play games to the likes of Deus Ex Human Revolution, Left 4 Dead, Bioshock Infinite. Plus fits all our other needs for web browsing, Facetiming with family, etc. I do like the built-in terminal as well for interfacing with my Linux devices. For the longest time I avoided buying anything Apple... in fact, this MBA is technically [mostly] paid for by my old company (I received an MBA 11" as part of taking a educational course during 2013 for which I received tuition reimbursement for, flipped it on ebay, and then waited for a deal on a MBA 13" and jumped... I think I spent no more than $200-300 out of pocket for it). Considering how good the MBA has been for me, I'm not sure I'd *need* to get a Macbook Pro... it would definitely be nicer though :) I'm sure people can hype it up and sure it might be a luxury but that doesn't discount the fact that it is pretty painless to use (don't have to worry about installing or reimaging Windows yourself because you wanted a certain edition without a bunch of random Dell/HP/etc bloatware) - you just turn the Macbook on and everything *is* - and unless something catastrophic happens, then you have to worry about reinstalling Mac OS X, but that's pretty rare. You get what you pay for... but definitely look for deals and consider older models (you don't need the latest and greatest to be happy)

I agree. I'm quitting my professor job at the end of this semester and am going to transition to writing full-time.  So, I'll be giving up my work Macbook (5 years old).  I really, really don't want to write full-time on our PC laptop, so I'm going to buy a used MacBook instead.  I will be fine with used -- in my experience, Macs wear very well.  To the extent that before I decided to quit, I turned down my scheduled computer replacement at work because I couldn't see any reason to replace my five year-old MacBook with a newer one. 
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: NextTime on March 17, 2016, 10:57:45 AM
I've noticed since I bought an iPhone 6+, I rarely even use a laptop or a tablet. I maybe use the laptop once a month, and the tablet a little more.

After working on a pc for 8-10 hours a day, I avoid them if at all possible when I get home. I try to do all of my personal computing needs right after (or during if there is free time) work before heading home.

I too was obsessed with getting a Mac for awhile (still feel the pull sometimes), but I just can't justify the purchase as I would rarely use it.

Bought my father-in-law a 15" (he's old) chromebook last summer for like $250.  He didn't like it the first week, but now he loves it. I'll probably go that route whenever my 5 year-old Dell craps out.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: humbleMouse on March 17, 2016, 11:00:38 AM
Just get one.  I don't skimp on spending on things I use every day usually for multiple hours.  I have nice bikes, a car that isnt a total piece of shit, a decent apartment, nice bed, eat good food, etc.

With that said, you can definitely snag deals on craigslist for discounted macbooks.  Last time I bought one I got a 2012 macbook pro 15 inch and replaced the HDD with a 1TBSSD.  Even as a 2012, it has i7, 16gb ram, and 1TB SSD. It kicks ass and still handles everything I throw at it.  Saved like $1500 buying used and upgrading myself.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: meyling on March 17, 2016, 11:01:14 AM
My chrome book cost me less than $200 and if it only ends up lasting me a year, then it'll still be more cost effective than getting a Mac.

Of course, it's been working wonderfully so far and I expect it to last much longer than a year. I do still have a Windows laptop as well for when I need to run something like turbo tax. I like having flexibility with my computer and I don't really get that with apple products.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Friar on March 17, 2016, 11:11:16 AM
After only used Windows machines before I bought my MBA about 2.5 years ago, and have used it daily ever since.

Things I have found improve the experience for me, over a Windows machine:

- The trackpad. The gestures support it has is fantastic. Installing a tool such as BetterTouchTool gives even more scope. My gesture are so ingrained into my laptop experience that when I use another machine it frustrates me to have to use keyboard shortcuts or, shock horror, manually click. I've not found another machine that provides the same quality.

- Sleep mode. I don't know what it is about OSX that is different to Windows in this respect, but the fact I never have to turn my MBA off and by shutting the lid it typically wakes up in less than a second is so pleasing. Again, I've never used a Windows machine that provides the same level of ease.

- Battery life. Even after 2.5 years I still get several hours battery life doing normal tasks. Compare this to my 6 month old Dell M3800 which lasts 2 hours at the most.

Bad things:

- Expensive, but then so are Windows ultrabooks.

- When switching between OSX and Windows the fact that minimise, maximise and close are on the "wrong" side gets confusing for about a week.

- You can't take it anywhere or risk looking like a hipster.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Scandium on March 17, 2016, 02:06:23 PM
But i must resist..... agh!!!!

My current laptop is over 10 years old. I know people will trash the macbook and say there are other computers better and less expensive. But i love apple and im tired of windows. Ive never had a macbook btw. I just appreciate them more after having owned an iphone then a note 4... and now i want to go back to an iphone 7.

Must resist...

What additional functionality will you get out of a MacBook vs a $400 PC?  Is there something you need to do that can only be done on the MacBook?

edit:  Something I do when I get an itch for some shiny new thing, is wait a month.  Just wait one month and see if you still want it so badly.  I suspect after a month you'll have found something else you'd rather spend the money on.
This.
So OP has never owned a Mac, but they are sooo much better? Because you like your iPhone, and dislike Android? Eh, not quite sure about this logic..

That $2,000 Microsoft surface book thing is supposed to be pretty good too. If you want a stupid expensive laptop. Comparing a MacBook to $500 dells and the like isn't really fair.

I have a 3 year old install of Windows 7 and don't remember the last time the OS crashed. I don't know what some of you people do with your PCs..
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: maco on March 17, 2016, 02:39:04 PM
I have used both Mac and PC for the better part of thirty years. Macs just... Work better for the average non-computer science person.
They work better for us, too. The most popular version control system, Git, is really poorly supported on Windows (I'm assuming you're using "PC" as shorthand for "Windows" since if you simply meant "personal computer" a Mac would be one of those too!). (Git was originally created for Linux users to contribute to the Linux kernel, so Windows' limitations were nowhere on the radar.)
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Alternatepriorities on March 17, 2016, 04:35:19 PM
I'm not going to try to convince you to get a different laptop, but I'm just wondering, what is the fascination with macs? I know so many people that always choose mac or really want one despite the outrageous price. I just don't understand the appeal.

I have used both Mac and PC for the better part of thirty years. Macs just... Work better for the average non-computer science person. They generally feel aesthetically better, they crash less often, they are more user-friendly... I have never flown into a blind rage using my Mac in the same way I frequently do using the Asus we have at home.

Excoriate me if you want, PC users. But give me a Mac over a PC any day.
+1

I use both windows and OS X on a regular basis. I nee windows to use Solidworks but bought a Mac partitioned it installed windows rather than buy a PC. Why would I spend an extra 200 dollars to do that instead of just buying an equivalent Dell? Aside from preferring the interface of OS X here first few experiences come to mind that keep me buying Macs:

I dropped my 15" macbook from waist height onto concrete. Horrified I watched it land edge first in the worst way possible. That was 5 years ago and despite a serious dent it's still runs almost every day. A cheaper plastic laptop would almost certainly have died that day. My wife had a similar experience with at 13" macbook.

I once restored windows on a Dell using the disk provided with the computer. It didn't include the drivers for the ethernet or wifi. Those had to be downloaded from Dell's web site which I obviously couldn't access... That's never happened to me with a Mac.

I've used a variety of laptops and I've never met a PC track pad comes close to the precision and smooth operation Mac has had for years. I always get frustrated and switch to mouse with windows.

A smart but less computer savvy coworkers has a brand new Lenovo with a touch screen and windows 10. She only uses it as a computer but managed to get it into touch screen mode by accident and couldn't get it back. It shouldn't be possible to do that by accident!
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: meyling on March 17, 2016, 04:49:57 PM
I have used both Mac and PC for the better part of thirty years. Macs just... Work better for the average non-computer science person.
They work better for us, too. The most popular version control system, Git, is really poorly supported on Windows (I'm assuming you're using "PC" as shorthand for "Windows" since if you simply meant "personal computer" a Mac would be one of those too!). (Git was originally created for Linux users to contribute to the Linux kernel, so Windows' limitations were nowhere on the radar.)
Heh, I will absolutely say that linux is better than windows. But i can easily put linux on a windows machine.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: use2betrix on March 17, 2016, 06:25:38 PM
But i must resist..... agh!!!!

My current laptop is over 10 years old. I know people will trash the macbook and say there are other computers better and less expensive. But i love apple and im tired of windows. Ive never had a macbook btw. I just appreciate them more after having owned an iphone then a note 4... and now i want to go back to an iphone 7.

Must resist...

What additional functionality will you get out of a MacBook vs a $400 PC?  Is there something you need to do that can only be done on the MacBook?

edit:  Something I do when I get an itch for some shiny new thing, is wait a month.  Just wait one month and see if you still want it so badly.  I suspect after a month you'll have found something else you'd rather spend the money on.
This.
So OP has never owned a Mac, but they are sooo much better? Because you like your iPhone, and dislike Android? Eh, not quite sure about this logic..

That $2,000 Microsoft surface book thing is supposed to be pretty good too. If you want a stupid expensive laptop. Comparing a MacBook to $500 dells and the like isn't really fair.

I have a 3 year old install of Windows 7 and don't remember the last time the OS crashed. I don't know what some of you people do with your PCs..

10 years ago I spent $1200 on a nice HP built to the specs I wanted. Within 2-3 years it had gone to shit. Battery quit working, disk drive would eject at random, power button and track pad quit working (had to turn on computer with QuickTime button)

It got stolen about 3 years after buying. Then I went out and spent $1150 on. MBP. This was around 7-8 years ago. It still works today. I use it many hours a day for around 5-6 years. Battery is shot now and track pad struggles, but still works great otherwise. Can plug in and use a Bluetooth mouse.

Like the person quoted above, I no longer use my computer. I have an iPhone 6plus and do all my computing needs at work during the day. I do everything at home on my 6plus. In fact, 99% of my posts on this forum are from my phone - this one is. I switched to a Note for a couple years after many years of iPhones, but once iPhone came out with the larger screen size I switched back.

Those are just my experiences. If I was to buy another computer, I'd have a hard time choosing between the surface pro 4 and a new mac.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Ricky on March 17, 2016, 08:27:52 PM
10 years ago I spent $1200 on a nice HP built to the specs I wanted. Within 2-3 years it had gone to shit. Battery quit working, disk drive would eject at random, power button and track pad quit working (had to turn on computer with QuickTime button)

It got stolen about 3 years after buying.

It got stolen, or you just let it sitting in a public place so you'd have an excuse to buy something better? ;)
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: ooeei on March 18, 2016, 06:39:40 AM
I just want to point out here the OP didn't come in asking if Mac or PC was better, he came in saying he wants a MacBook with no real justification, and then said "must resist."  This tells me it's just a current, for lack of a better word, craving, and will probably pass with time. 

This is the same poster who came in asking about how to buy his dad a house because "he can't keep renting forever" and "he's made bad financial decisions in other areas." 

I get that the people here love their Macs, and if you use it very regularly for music editing or whatever they're supposed to be good for and really get some significant advantages out of it, that's great.  If OP is like the other 95% of computer users though, he'll browse the internet, watch some Netflix, and maybe use Word or Excel for some basic document creation.  Suggesting a 2-3x more expensive Mac is worth it for the average computer user is a pretty tough sell. 

If he was someone who had $500,000 in investments and generally had his spending in check, then sure go nuts if you really want the Mac.  As is he's a recent college grad living in a new country (if I remember right) who constantly asks questions about calculating savings rate and optimizing his budget.  That's not someone who I'd recommend spend $1200 (or whatever it costs) on a new computer when a $400 one would do the exact same stuff with a potentially-less-friendly-but-still-better-than-anything-5-years-ago interface.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: ketchup on March 18, 2016, 09:00:49 AM
But i must resist..... agh!!!!

My current laptop is over 10 years old. I know people will trash the macbook and say there are other computers better and less expensive. But i love apple and im tired of windows. Ive never had a macbook btw. I just appreciate them more after having owned an iphone then a note 4... and now i want to go back to an iphone 7.

Must resist...

What additional functionality will you get out of a MacBook vs a $400 PC?  Is there something you need to do that can only be done on the MacBook?

edit:  Something I do when I get an itch for some shiny new thing, is wait a month.  Just wait one month and see if you still want it so badly.  I suspect after a month you'll have found something else you'd rather spend the money on.
This.
So OP has never owned a Mac, but they are sooo much better? Because you like your iPhone, and dislike Android? Eh, not quite sure about this logic..

That $2,000 Microsoft surface book thing is supposed to be pretty good too. If you want a stupid expensive laptop. Comparing a MacBook to $500 dells and the like isn't really fair.

I have a 3 year old install of Windows 7 and don't remember the last time the OS crashed. I don't know what some of you people do with your PCs..
Yep.  Without more info, it sounds like you want a Macbook "because Apple" with no other real reason.

You say you're "sick of Windows", that you "love Apple" but have "never had a MacBook."

It sounds like you're really just sick of your 10+ year old laptop.  If you're using a 10+ year old laptop currently as your primary machine, there's no reason to want the "latest and greatest" on any technical front.  A $600-700 Dell Latitude (their business line; I can't comment on Inspirons of late) laptop would be just fine, and probably even more than you need.  I just bought a few of those at work, and they're great little laptops.  It's amazing how thin and light everything's gotten the past few years.  And you can get it with Windows 7 if you don't want Windows 10.  My only beef with them is that they don't have a TrackPoint (some of the fancier current Dells do), only a trackpad, but you don't care about that if you consider a MacBook desirable.

I see some people mentioning buying an older Macbook. One advantage older Macbooks have is they still have ethernet ports. All of the newer Macbooks don't. I believe 2012 year models might have been the last year to have ethernet ports in them. I've occasionally been to hotels and other places that plugging into ethernet is the only option to get online. That's becoming more and more rare, but still.

I have a 2012 Macbook. It was purchased in late 2011, right when they switched to the early 2012 model. It's my first Apple product. I bought it because I was curious about Macs. To be honest, there's certain things I like about it, but I don't feel it was worth the premium cost. Parts that work properly with it tend to cost more than similar products for Windows/Linux computers too. As a gamer, I also had to set up dual booting with Windows anyway to play certain games, so it can be inconvenient at times.

Whenever this one gets too old, I plan to go back to Windows.
You've got to be fucking kidding me.  No ethernet ports?
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: WerKater on March 19, 2016, 03:00:21 AM
I'm not going to try to convince you to get a different laptop, but I'm just wondering, what is the fascination with macs? I know so many people that always choose mac or really want one despite the outrageous price. I just don't understand the appeal.
For some people (e.g., my former boss, don't even get me started on him...) it is because they are incredible Apple fanboys and -girls. They simply must have every new Apple product (side note: when the Apple watch came out, I was totally convinced for a while that someone was running an extremely elaborate satire campaign).

But there is one important advantage that Macs have: You don't have to deal with Windows bullshit. I don't see the great appeal of Apple products either (and consider most much too expensive). But you can guess from my avatar which previously mentioned OS is my choice. (My desktop PC is 7 years old, my laptop 5 or so and both run perfectly. I do admit that I upgraded the Desktop PC to 16GB RAM and ~7TB of hard disk space because I could).
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: ender on March 19, 2016, 06:25:43 AM
I like using macs and am a software developer. A few reasons I like them and use them personally:


Not all of these are unique to Macs, but I have also found if you look for comparable Windows based machines you have to pay close to what you pay for a Mac.

The last point for me is important too. My previous machine cost me $900 net for about 6 years worth of continual usage through graduate school and personal life ($1100 purchase cost, plus $200 for an SSD/Ram and then $400 less for the resale). A Windows based machine very well could have lasted that long but would not have been that significant a cost savings in an absolute sense. If I had bought a $500 cheap Windows laptop in 2010, the total cost difference assuming it lasted as long would have only been around $400.

For me, the benefits in the above list are well worth $75/year.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: BlueMR2 on March 19, 2016, 07:59:18 AM
See if you can borrow a macbook.  You may find you don't really like them after all.  I've owned Macs, Windows, and Linux machines myself and there is now machine that's right for everyone.  You need to find the one that's right for you.  For me personally, Macs are the worst of the 3 (and my last personal Mac I sold at a big loss after just 9 months because I was so frustrated with it).  I find them very exasperating to use as I continually run in to barriers where they simply won't let me do what I want.  I do have to use them at work sometimes though.  Windows is in second place.  Windows 10 is a HUGE improvement over previous versions, and it lets me do what I want, but it's just a little sluggish on older hardware.  Linux is currently my first place (and what I'm typing this on), but it also has flaws.  The distro I'm on only supports older machines (32-bit) if your on the bleeding edge version.  "Stable" requires 64-bit.  So, I bump into little oddities from time to time.  Oh, and the software updater is horrible.  YaST is nice when it works, but sometimes it just refuses to see any updates.  Yum also suffers from issues resolving library conflicts and wanting to suck back in software I've removed.

Best go hands on for a bit with all the options before you decide.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Emergo on March 19, 2016, 03:44:51 PM
I played with the macbook 12" today and i loved it
 I tried the macbook pros but theyre too big for my taste. If they come out with an upgraded 12" refresh soon, im getting it.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: madmax on March 19, 2016, 10:16:02 PM
You've got to be fucking kidding me.  No ethernet ports?

Well they have Thunderbolt ports and you can always use http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD463LL/A/thunderbolt-to-gigabit-ethernet-adapter
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Syonyk on March 19, 2016, 10:49:00 PM
I can't speak to "I want one to play around with," but I've made my living on computers for quite a few years, and I generally use Apple hardware.  The "just works" aspect of it is worth quite a bit of time to me - or at least was back when I switched over in the early 2000s.

That it's painless to upgrade hardware (plug the old one and new one together somehow, they work out the details and copy everything over) is a nice touch as well.

I'm perfectly fluent with OS X, Linux, and Windows, and I don't bother with Windows except for gaming - which doesn't happen much lately.

Of course, I'm typing this from a Chromebook Pixel LS in developer mode with Crouton available (so full Linux available to me).  It's not a cheap Chromebook, but it's a damned good laptop, period.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: alsoknownasDean on March 19, 2016, 11:27:54 PM
My brother's got a Windows laptop that's three years old and having issues. My other brother's Windows laptop was recently repaired and it was about three years old. My dad's Windows tablet is currently in the shop getting fixed and it's two years old.

I've owned my current MacBook Pro for just under seven years (although there's a couple of minor issues now, most are because it's been dropped a couple of times).
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: pancakes on March 20, 2016, 03:01:54 AM
I've had three apple laptops since 2004 and all of them still work. The two I have replaced were because the technology in them became superseded (powerPC anyone?) or limiting for my needs. In retrospect I should have sold them back instead of holding onto them as even older apple laptops seem to keep reasonable resale value.

I second whoever mentioned the refurbished option. I wouldn't buy a retail boxed apple computer again as long as the refurbished option is there.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: coolistdude on March 20, 2016, 01:51:30 PM
My chrome book cost me less than $200 and if it only ends up lasting me a year, then it'll still be more cost effective than getting a Mac.

Of course, it's been working wonderfully so far and I expect it to last much longer than a year. I do still have a Windows laptop as well for when I need to run something like turbo tax. I like having flexibility with my computer and I don't really get that with apple products.

You can run Turbotax online with a Chromebook. I bought one of the first Chromebooks that came out over 4 years ago for $400. It lasted about 4 years before issues became present (screen going in and out). I've played around with some of the newer ones (in comparison) like the Samsung 3 series, Acer C720, or the HP 14" (forgot which model). I'd say 3-4 years is a pretty fair estimate.

DW uses an old Macbook, and I use the Chromebook. I tried out a Windows laptop and it was an okay experience, because it was Windows 7. But Windows 8 and 10 just make me super angry when I use them. It's like Microsoft wants to see how much it can torture users and get away with it.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: LouLou on March 20, 2016, 03:28:26 PM
The main difference between Apple/Mac and Windows (or Android phones) is that all Apple products are premium, while products using Windows or Android vary wildly in quality.  I love my Windows laptop and Android phone, but they are premium versions.

OP, I agree with the poster who said to wait and see if your craving passes.  Wait six months, and during that time think about whether your life would actually be improved by it.  Think about if your life could be similarly improved in another way.

I crave newer cars all the time.  When I decide I want a particular car, I think for a few months about whether my life would significantly better or improved in any way if I had it.  If I'm honest, it wouldn't.  It would make my life nicer in some ways, but I wouldn't be any happier overall.  I realized that the one thing that I would really, really appreciate is bluetooth in my car for music, audiobooks, and calls (without needing to look down at my phone).  I bought a $40 bluetooth adapter for my car and voila! Life improved! 

Glad I spent $40 instead of $20,000.  Now, I'm getting rid of some of my student loans altogether and doing some slight renovations to my house that will bring big quality of life improvements.  That $20,000 will materially improve my life, instead of going to a car that I wouldn't even care about after a while.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: JAYSLOL on March 20, 2016, 07:22:47 PM
My 5 year old MacBook Pro was killed by my toddler, sold it for parts and decided not to spend the cash on a new MacBook, and used ones were selling for way over their real value here.  I decided to buy a brand new Mac Mini ($500 on Black Friday) and got a used 1080p 23" monitor for $60, a used apple mouse and keyboard ($40).  Total cost was $600 and I have all the function of a brand new Mac, it just doesn't fold up like a laptop. 
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: sleepyguy on March 20, 2016, 08:25:14 PM
At the end of the day how much "effective" use are you gonna get out of it?  A PC laptop at a half the cost can probably do the same job.  Windows 7(64)/10 is pretty solid right now.

My daily driver laptop is still an Thinkpad X200, never had a single issue with it.  Windows these days are not like yesteryear... they are much more intuitive for new users.  Windows app store does blow the big one though, but I generally just use desktop apps (Still on Windows 7-64).
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Fuzz on March 21, 2016, 05:53:38 PM
I had a PC from 1992 through 2008. The PC taught me that I am a shallow person who gets angry easily. No way in hell am I going back to a Windows laptop. What a POS parade.

Besides, once you comparably spec out a windows laptop and a MBP, it gets reasonably close. Yes, you *could* use a 286 that you got out of a dumpster for editing text and thereby satisfy legitimate MMM forum approved computer needs. But life is short and I'm done with Windows induced rage. YMMV.

Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: trashmanz on March 21, 2016, 06:06:55 PM
One way to look at it is whether it is a tool or a toy.  If you use it to play games and surf the internet then just know that should be considered an extravagant luxury expense and go from there.  If you earn money on your time on the computer and downtime and frustration is to be minimized, a small premium is worth it.  Whether this premium gets you an actual premium may be debated, but for me, using both PC and Mac and Chromebooks daily, if I could only use one machine the Mac wins hands down.  It just works well and causes me the least amount of annoyance for my work.   YMMV. 
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Emergo on March 21, 2016, 08:58:58 PM
A $300 discount right now at Best Buy... $999. Or I could go for the open box at $909.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: FrugalKube on March 21, 2016, 09:37:26 PM
I'm not going to try to convince you to get a different laptop, but I'm just wondering, what is the fascination with macs? I know so many people that always choose mac or really want one despite the outrageous price. I just don't understand the appeal.

I have used both Mac and PC for the better part of thirty years. Macs just... Work better for the average non-computer science person. They generally feel aesthetically better, they crash less often, they are more user-friendly... I have never flown into a blind rage using my Mac in the same way I frequently do using the Asus we have at home.

Excoriate me if you want, PC users. But give me a Mac over a PC any day.



Why are you using an Asus? That might contribute to your blind rage

Nothing against Macs, we have lots of people at work that use them and I've had to work on them. I would consider a macbook if that was my sole workstation but I like my gaming PC. I am considering getting a Chromebook for some light use

Best Buy open box is a good idea, just check the battery cycles
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Emergo on March 21, 2016, 10:20:39 PM
I'm not going to try to convince you to get a different laptop, but I'm just wondering, what is the fascination with macs? I know so many people that always choose mac or really want one despite the outrageous price. I just don't understand the appeal.

I have used both Mac and PC for the better part of thirty years. Macs just... Work better for the average non-computer science person. They generally feel aesthetically better, they crash less often, they are more user-friendly... I have never flown into a blind rage using my Mac in the same way I frequently do using the Asus we have at home.

Excoriate me if you want, PC users. But give me a Mac over a PC any day.



Why are you using an Asus? That might contribute to your blind rage

Nothing against Macs, we have lots of people at work that use them and I've had to work on them. I would consider a macbook if that was my sole workstation but I like my gaming PC. I am considering getting a Chromebook for some light use

Best Buy open box is a good idea, just check the battery cycles

How to check battery cycle? I could also get a further discount by using a mover's discount from the post office. I think it's an additional 10% off
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Lagom on March 21, 2016, 10:23:10 PM
I'm not going to try to convince you to get a different laptop, but I'm just wondering, what is the fascination with macs? I know so many people that always choose mac or really want one despite the outrageous price. I just don't understand the appeal.

I have used both Mac and PC for the better part of thirty years. Macs just... Work better for the average non-computer science person. They generally feel aesthetically better, they crash less often, they are more user-friendly... I have never flown into a blind rage using my Mac in the same way I frequently do using the Asus we have at home.

Excoriate me if you want, PC users. But give me a Mac over a PC any day.



Why are you using an Asus? That might contribute to your blind rage

Nothing against Macs, we have lots of people at work that use them and I've had to work on them. I would consider a macbook if that was my sole workstation but I like my gaming PC. I am considering getting a Chromebook for some light use

Best Buy open box is a good idea, just check the battery cycles

How to check battery cycle? I could also get a further discount by using a mover's discount from the post office. I think it's an additional 10% off

Apple menu -> About this mac -> System report -> Power

Cycle count is listed there.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Emergo on March 21, 2016, 10:27:23 PM
I'm not going to try to convince you to get a different laptop, but I'm just wondering, what is the fascination with macs? I know so many people that always choose mac or really want one despite the outrageous price. I just don't understand the appeal.

I have used both Mac and PC for the better part of thirty years. Macs just... Work better for the average non-computer science person. They generally feel aesthetically better, they crash less often, they are more user-friendly... I have never flown into a blind rage using my Mac in the same way I frequently do using the Asus we have at home.

Excoriate me if you want, PC users. But give me a Mac over a PC any day.



Why are you using an Asus? That might contribute to your blind rage

Nothing against Macs, we have lots of people at work that use them and I've had to work on them. I would consider a macbook if that was my sole workstation but I like my gaming PC. I am considering getting a Chromebook for some light use

Best Buy open box is a good idea, just check the battery cycles

How to check battery cycle? I could also get a further discount by using a mover's discount from the post office. I think it's an additional 10% off

Apple menu -> About this mac -> System report -> Power

Cycle count is listed there.

Thanks. So whats considered good cycle count? Sorry ive never had an apple.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: trashmanz on March 21, 2016, 10:34:48 PM
Was on sale for that price at b&h and no tax unless living in ny. I don't think I'd go used just to save $90. Would be good if you can get the movers discount though.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: madmax on March 21, 2016, 10:56:16 PM
Thanks. So whats considered good cycle count? Sorry ive never had an apple.

I believe Apple considers the useful life of a battery as 1000 cycles though they commonly last much longer.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Lagom on March 22, 2016, 11:48:18 AM
Thanks. So whats considered good cycle count? Sorry ive never had an apple.

I believe Apple considers the useful life of a battery as 1000 cycles though they commonly last much longer.

Based on my admittedly lazy research, 1000 cycles should still have your battery at about 80% capacity when fully charged. So if you were getting 10 hours with a brand new macbook, you should be at around 8 after 1000 cycles. This is my first mac though, so I couldn't say whether this information is accurate. Seems a bit optimistic, imo, but we'll see!
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Kris on March 22, 2016, 12:14:15 PM
I'm not going to try to convince you to get a different laptop, but I'm just wondering, what is the fascination with macs? I know so many people that always choose mac or really want one despite the outrageous price. I just don't understand the appeal.

I have used both Mac and PC for the better part of thirty years. Macs just... Work better for the average non-computer science person. They generally feel aesthetically better, they crash less often, they are more user-friendly... I have never flown into a blind rage using my Mac in the same way I frequently do using the Asus we have at home.

Excoriate me if you want, PC users. But give me a Mac over a PC any day.



Why are you using an Asus? That might contribute to your blind rage

Nothing against Macs, we have lots of people at work that use them and I've had to work on them. I would consider a macbook if that was my sole workstation but I like my gaming PC. I am considering getting a Chromebook for some light use

Best Buy open box is a good idea, just check the battery cycles

I'm cureently using an Asus at home because my husband bought it.

But again, as i have pointed out to others, I have been using both Mac and PC (and yes, I know PC is technically imprecise) for over thirty years. The Asus is particularly  irritating, but the two laptops we had before it were similarly frustrating.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Tetsuya Hondo on March 22, 2016, 12:47:10 PM
I have never flown into a blind rage using my Mac in the same way I frequently do using the Asus we have at home.

This. I've been using PCs since the days of DOS and I have wanted to murder every single one of them at some point. I know what you mean and I can't believe that other people seem to find that strange. Are they too young to remember wasting countless hours diagnosing and trying to correct blue screens of death, myriad driver or device conflicts, etc?

I have never wanted to unload on my Mac - Office Space style with a baseball bat in an open field - the way I have my PCs.

That said, PCs (or should I say the Windows OS?) are much better now than they were. I've only wanted to slap my work PC (Windows 10) a few times. I agree with others that you should test drive a number of options before you buy. The gulf isn't as wide as it used to be.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: JAYSLOL on March 22, 2016, 01:27:25 PM
I have never flown into a blind rage using my Mac in the same way I frequently do using the Asus we have at home.

This. I've been using PCs since the days of DOS and I have wanted to murder every single one of them at some point. I know what you mean and I can't believe that other people seem to find that strange. Are they too young to remember wasting countless hours diagnosing and trying to correct blue screens of death, myriad driver or device conflicts, etc?

I have never wanted to unload on my Mac - Office Space style with a baseball bat in an open field - the way I have my PCs.

That said, PCs (or should I say the Windows OS?) are much better now than they were. I've only wanted to slap my work PC (Windows 10) a few times. I agree with others that you should test drive a number of options before you buy. The gulf isn't as wide as it used to be.

Yep, this sums up my experience too.  I did have an old e-machines desktop with decent internals with windows 98 (when it was new) and loved it for the most part.  That thing could run games 10 years younger than it better than many newer PCs I've used.  Since then I've had an HP desktop and laptop, a toshiba laptop, acer and asus netbooks and they were mostly shit.  For now I'm happy to stick with a Mac.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: madmax on March 22, 2016, 08:14:39 PM
If you are frustrated by Windows, try Linux. There is almost nothing that OS X can do that a desktop oriented Linux distro like Mint or Ubuntu cannot do. Battery life is much better with all the ultrabooks in the market today. Of course if you just want Apple because it makes you feel special, go for it.  \_(ツ)_/
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: GuitarBrian on March 22, 2016, 08:46:07 PM
I have posted this before, but I really love the Mid 2012 macbook Pro 15. Stock, they are quad core 2.3ghz, with 4gb RAM... Upgrade to 8/16... Put the largest SSD you want... If you want more storage, take out the optical drive, put a 2TB or they may have a larger drive now... Tons of space, more powerful than lots of new computers available today... Thunderbolt, USB 3, FW800, Ethernet.
If you can find it... I found a used 2.7ghz with the high res anti glare screen, this upgrade has a much better GPU... I think it came with all the upgraded CPUs...

You can replace your own battery, it is easy. Hard drive, SSD, even the trackpad is easy to replace...

YMMV... But I am picky about my conputers, and I am still happy with this, even after 2 years, and it was used about 2 years before I bought it.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: GuitarBrian on March 22, 2016, 08:53:23 PM
Forgot to add, I used Windows quite often, dual boot... It runs Windows 7 flawlessly.

If you are looking to play games... I can't tell you much, I try to stay away from video games... But when I played Diablo 3 (there is a 1000+ hrs gone) it was fine, on high settings, 40-50 fps. Lower settings, maybe mid? Above 60 IIRC.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Tetsuya Hondo on March 22, 2016, 08:55:18 PM
If you are frustrated by Windows, try Linux. There is almost nothing that OS X can do that a desktop oriented Linux distro like Mint or Ubuntu cannot do. Battery life is much better with all the ultrabooks in the market today. Of course if you just want Apple because it makes you feel special, go for it.  \_(ツ)_/

Are you telling me that a Linux machine is as easy to use and has the same software options as a Mac? Because I'm a little skeptical. After some quick Googling, I'm not ever sure how to obtain Linux, let alone set it up and get it to do all the things I want a computer to do.

To use an automotive analogy, Linux machines seem like project cars, theoretically capable of great things but requiring someone with the inclination and interest for spending all day under the hood just for the sheer pleasure of it. But, a lot of us aren't car people; we just want a Honda Accord/Mac that does what I tell it to with minimal maintenance so we can get on with our day and do the things we want to do.

Is my analogy off base? I'm genuinely interested as I have little knowledge of Linux.

Update: I made my way to the Ubuntu website and it looks...pretty good. I see there is a lot of the applications that I might want. Still interested in hearing how user friendly it all is, does it crash, how well it works with printers and devices, etc. Could a luddite manage with Linux?
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: madmax on March 22, 2016, 09:14:18 PM
Quote
Are you telling me that a Linux machine is as easy to use and has the same software options as a Mac? Because I'm a little skeptical. After some quick Googling, I'm not ever sure how to obtain Linux, let alone set it up and get it to do all the things I want a computer to do.

To use an automotive analogy, Linux machines seem like project cars, theoretically capable of great things but requiring someone with the inclination and interest for spending all day under the hood just for the sheer pleasure of it. But, a lot of us aren't car people; we just want a Honda Accord/Mac that does what I tell it to with minimal maintenance so we can get on with our day and do the things we want to do.

Is my analogy off base? I'm genuinely interested as I have little knowledge of Linux.

Update: I made my way to the Ubuntu website and it looks...pretty good. I see there is a lot of the applications that I might want. Still interested in hearing how user friendly it all is, does it crash, how well it works with printers and devices, etc. Could a luddite manage with Linux?

I've used Linux since the 90's. I'd say Desktop Linux has come a long way. In some ways it is easier to use than Windows. Most hardware will work out of the box - no hunting for driver cds. Distros come bundled with an office suite, a decent web browser. Videos play out of the box. Installing new software is a matter of launching the inbuilt "app store" and searching. This is a paradigm that most users will be comfortable with in this age.

Installation is easy - typically download an ISO file from the distro website. I'd recommend Linux Mint over Ubuntu. Get pen drive linux from http://www.pendrivelinux.com/ and create a bootable USB. Reboot your computer and follow the prompts. Oh and backup your data before you do anything.

There are plenty of Linux users on these forums - if you run into issues we can help.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Neva6 on March 22, 2016, 10:19:19 PM
I have a early 2015 mac book pro. Best $1300 I ever spent on a computer. I do some light programming and basic computing but it just blows away every windows machine I've used as far as stability and speed. Even my $2500 windows workstation (for work) just can't compete.

Don't try linux unless you are an experienced power user.

If you just want it to work get a mac and pay apple the experience premium. :D (ughh my former windows and android using self just slapped me).
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: WerKater on March 23, 2016, 12:13:01 AM
Quote
Are you telling me that a Linux machine is as easy to use and has the same software options as a Mac? Because I'm a little skeptical. After some quick Googling, I'm not ever sure how to obtain Linux, let alone set it up and get it to do all the things I want a computer to do.

To use an automotive analogy, Linux machines seem like project cars, theoretically capable of great things but requiring someone with the inclination and interest for spending all day under the hood just for the sheer pleasure of it. But, a lot of us aren't car people; we just want a Honda Accord/Mac that does what I tell it to with minimal maintenance so we can get on with our day and do the things we want to do.

Is my analogy off base? I'm genuinely interested as I have little knowledge of Linux.

Update: I made my way to the Ubuntu website and it looks...pretty good. I see there is a lot of the applications that I might want. Still interested in hearing how user friendly it all is, does it crash, how well it works with printers and devices, etc. Could a luddite manage with Linux?

I've used Linux since the 90's. I'd say Desktop Linux has come a long way. In some ways it is easier to use than Windows. Most hardware will work out of the box - no hunting for driver cds. Distros come bundled with an office suite, a decent web browser. Videos play out of the box. Installing new software is a matter of launching the inbuilt "app store" and searching. This is a paradigm that most users will be comfortable with in this age.

Installation is easy - typically download an ISO file from the distro website. I'd recommend Linux Mint over Ubuntu. Get pen drive linux from http://www.pendrivelinux.com/ and create a bootable USB. Reboot your computer and follow the prompts. Oh and backup your data before you do anything.

There are plenty of Linux users on these forums - if you run into issues we can help.

I second everything that madmax said. In particular: Just try it and ask us for help if you want.
Some important additions:


I have never flown into a blind rage using my Mac in the same way I frequently do using the Asus we have at home.

This. I've been using PCs since the days of DOS and I have wanted to murder every single one of them at some point. I know what you mean and I can't believe that other people seem to find that strange. Are they too young to remember wasting countless hours diagnosing and trying to correct blue screens of death, myriad driver or device conflicts, etc?

I have never wanted to unload on my Mac - Office Space style with a baseball bat in an open field - the way I have my PCs.

That said, PCs (or should I say the Windows OS?) are much better now than they were. I've only wanted to slap my work PC (Windows 10) a few times. I agree with others that you should test drive a number of options before you buy. The gulf isn't as wide as it used to be.
[Emphasis mine]. Yes, you should. PCs are great. Windows (any version) is a piece of crap that needs to be killed with fire. I will never ever go back from Linux to Windows again.
Oh, and with Linux. No need to buy anything. Set up a dual boot, download an installation DVD, install, try it out while you still have your Windows OS available in case you need it.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Tetsuya Hondo on March 23, 2016, 12:40:52 PM
@WerKater and madmax,

I'm intrigued. I might start a new thread to pepper you with questions about Linux. Our home Mac will need replacement at some point and I'm toying with the idea of going this route.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: powersuitrecall on March 23, 2016, 12:55:58 PM
Just get a 2009-2011 13" macbook pro for around $500, solid and responsive if you put in more ram and an SSD.  That should satisfy the urge and get you 90% of what the new macs do.

Ditto.  Our 2011 15" MPB with 8 GB RAM + SSD is quiet, fast and an all out pleasure to use. 
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: 2buttons on March 23, 2016, 01:02:25 PM
http://www.apple.com/shop/browse/home/specialdeals/mac/macbook_pro
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Scandium on March 30, 2016, 07:30:35 AM
If you are frustrated by Windows, try Linux. There is almost nothing that OS X can do that a desktop oriented Linux distro like Mint or Ubuntu cannot do. Battery life is much better with all the ultrabooks in the market today. Of course if you just want Apple because it makes you feel special, go for it.  \_(ツ)_/

If you are frustrated by Windows, wait until you try Linux! Lol. Now that's real frustration for you. Sorry, linux is great and all, it's free and politically/ philosophically pure and wholesome, but it is not at all user friendly or simple! To preface, I have Mint on my old laptop, an ubuntu partition on my desktop, an ubuntu headless server at home and use a CentOS cluster at work, so I have some idea about this. I'm sure the Mint or ubuntu install is much easier and nicer than before, but you can not compare it to the user-friendliness of windows 10 or MacOS "whatever cat it is now".

Your linux install might work fine out of the box (or if your PC has random hardware #329 it might not), but at some your going to run into something that doesn't work right and you're spending 4 hours in config files and on stack exchange and ubuntuforums.com to figure it out.

Battery life will take a dive on a laptop as power management in linux is not great, and I have never gotten sleep/hibernate to work under ubuntu or Mint. If you're luck it just won't go to sleep, unlucky it will crash and reboot instead. Dual monitors did not work for crap. Flash on linux is a crapshoot, and plenty of sites still use it. Java is the same, not supported on linux and require a dodgy 3rd party workaround installed from command line. Good luck telling your bank they should stop using java because you're special.. Setting up NFS share to a Sama server is about 18 times more complicated than the 3 boxes in windows. No adobe programs will work. You're a hobby photographer say goodbye to Lightroom, the best photo app there is. The linux alternatives are not even close, believe me. I'll update if I think of more annoying things..

Linux fanatics are the original hipsters where they have to hate windows because it's popular. Some went to Mac (now too popular?) and some to linux. There is annoying cultural warriors on all sides. If you know what you're doing all 3 OS's are fine and you can make it work, if you don't bother to learn you'll mess your PC up. There are things I like and dislike about all.

In short; if you think Windows is frustrating:
a) you're probably abusing your computer and doing dumb stuff (i.e. RTFM)
b) you'll mess up a Mac PC equally well and be frustrated by it too eventually (just ask my wife and her messed up mac next to my WinPC working fine)
c) linux = pain


edit: lol, dude. "no hunting for driver CDs" wtf? When was the last time windows required driver cds? pre-XP?  That's disingenuous. At least have accurate criticism.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: 2Birds1Stone on March 30, 2016, 08:00:03 AM
Nothing beats the simplicity of my Mac. I used Windows for 15 years before the switch now I won't look back. Still use Windows 7 at work but prefer my Macbook Pro at home.

I NEVER had to install an update or do anything with my Mac and it practically runs the day I bought it 6 years ago.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: maco on March 30, 2016, 08:39:42 AM
but you can not compare it to the user-friendliness of windows 10 or MacOS "whatever cat it is now".
They stopped doing cats a few years ago. Now it's National Parks / places in National Parks. Last ones have been Yosemite and El Capitan (the latter being a mountain in Yosemite).
Quote
edit: lol, dude. "no hunting for driver CDs" wtf? When was the last time windows required driver cds? pre-XP?  That's disingenuous. At least have accurate criticism.
If you install Windows fresh, rather than just pull the machine preinstalled out of a box, you need driver CDs. I remember having to, on XP (working in a computer shop, doing the "format, reinstall" dance for someone's malware-infected machine), sneakernet via thumb drive the ethernet drivers because even wired internet was beyond XP's comprehension. At least Vista+ have many more generic drivers in them by default.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Scandium on March 30, 2016, 09:02:02 AM
edit: lol, dude. "no hunting for driver CDs" wtf? When was the last time windows required driver cds? pre-XP?  That's disingenuous. At least have accurate criticism.
If you install Windows fresh, rather than just pull the machine preinstalled out of a box, you need driver CDs. I remember having to, on XP (working in a computer shop, doing the "format, reinstall" dance for someone's malware-infected machine), sneakernet via thumb drive the ethernet drivers because even wired internet was beyond XP's comprehension. At least Vista+ have many more generic drivers in them by default.
[/quote]

Ok, so up to XP then. Practically every necessary driver is built in since Win 7, or is pulled down from the net during install. Been a while since I did a clean install, but not once did I have to use driver CDs even for my esoteric sound card old CF card reader or anything else. My point was that this is not a thing, or if anything more trouble with linux which is more likely to not support certain hardware. Those fancy laptops that fold all the way back and flip the screen? Yeah might not work on linux because the drivers aren't supported. Wacom tablets? who knows
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: neo von retorch on March 30, 2016, 09:05:31 AM
I use four Windows 10 machines and the experience varies a little.

There was one crazy issue on the one laptop but to be fair, it had super-early-technical-users-preview Windows 10 on it. But my most recent experience was... it still had some lingering issues from once having the wacky version on it. I was able to do a "format install" from inside the Windows 10 interface. Started it, went to bed, and woke up to a fully installed, fresh, clean Windows 10 with all drivers installed. No discs or USB drives needed. Not even for Windows.

The other two home machines have been rock solid, and both were upgrades from Windows 8. No clean installs.

My work machine does have an issue - if you let it go to sleep in any manner, when you try to resume, it just hangs forever, and it needs to be powered down manually. I blame the IT department ;) (There are only a couple Windows 10 machines here... most are Windows 7, and there are a lot of Macs here at work. The Mac guys are happy with their machines.)

So there are some anecdotes. I'm a "Windows guy" but I have sat through some very frustrating learning experiences. And I'm glad I did. I learned from it, I earned the nice solid running systems on the other side. I won't hesitate to tear apart my machine and upgrade hardware. I've provided machines for damn close to $0 to my parents, sister and grandmother because people come to me for upgrades and new computers, and they give me their old hardware! So I spit shine it, maybe toss in a $40 SSD, and it's ready to go for them.

As is the case with most "buy this, not that" threads, it comes down to the experiences you value, how you spend your money and time based on your own personal set of values. I don't think Apple products are frugal and I think they intentionally don't play well with others so that they a) play really well with other Apple devices and b) you find it tempting to go "all in."

But going through the pain of Windows or the learning process of Linux isn't for everyone, of course. If you're smart about your money and avoid most splurges, maybe you can get yourself an Apple product as a luxury, and that's OK. But you should be comfortably on your journal towards independence before you start making such luxury purchases.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: maco on March 30, 2016, 09:08:21 AM
Wacom tablets? who knows
It probably depends on the model, but the cheap ones (Bamboo line) worked on Ubuntu when I was using it 6 years ago. I've never spent enough on one to be able to tell you about the snazzy ones.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: FrugalKube on March 30, 2016, 10:13:17 PM
Quote
Are you telling me that a Linux machine is as easy to use and has the same software options as a Mac? Because I'm a little skeptical. After some quick Googling, I'm not ever sure how to obtain Linux, let alone set it up and get it to do all the things I want a computer to do.

To use an automotive analogy, Linux machines seem like project cars, theoretically capable of great things but requiring someone with the inclination and interest for spending all day under the hood just for the sheer pleasure of it. But, a lot of us aren't car people; we just want a Honda Accord/Mac that does what I tell it to with minimal maintenance so we can get on with our day and do the things we want to do.

Is my analogy off base? I'm genuinely interested as I have little knowledge of Linux.

Update: I made my way to the Ubuntu website and it looks...pretty good. I see there is a lot of the applications that I might want. Still interested in hearing how user friendly it all is, does it crash, how well it works with printers and devices, etc. Could a luddite manage with Linux?

I've used Linux since the 90's. I'd say Desktop Linux has come a long way. In some ways it is easier to use than Windows. Most hardware will work out of the box - no hunting for driver cds. Distros come bundled with an office suite, a decent web browser. Videos play out of the box. Installing new software is a matter of launching the inbuilt "app store" and searching. This is a paradigm that most users will be comfortable with in this age.

Installation is easy - typically download an ISO file from the distro website. I'd recommend Linux Mint over Ubuntu. Get pen drive linux from http://www.pendrivelinux.com/ and create a bootable USB. Reboot your computer and follow the prompts. Oh and backup your data before you do anything.

There are plenty of Linux users on these forums - if you run into issues we can help.

And this is one of the plans I have with this Chromebook dual boot and get more exposure to Linux. I've heard good things about Mint and PuppyLinux
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: WerKater on March 31, 2016, 12:11:16 AM
Quote
Are you telling me that a Linux machine is as easy to use and has the same software options as a Mac? Because I'm a little skeptical. After some quick Googling, I'm not ever sure how to obtain Linux, let alone set it up and get it to do all the things I want a computer to do.

To use an automotive analogy, Linux machines seem like project cars, theoretically capable of great things but requiring someone with the inclination and interest for spending all day under the hood just for the sheer pleasure of it. But, a lot of us aren't car people; we just want a Honda Accord/Mac that does what I tell it to with minimal maintenance so we can get on with our day and do the things we want to do.

Is my analogy off base? I'm genuinely interested as I have little knowledge of Linux.

Update: I made my way to the Ubuntu website and it looks...pretty good. I see there is a lot of the applications that I might want. Still interested in hearing how user friendly it all is, does it crash, how well it works with printers and devices, etc. Could a luddite manage with Linux?

I've used Linux since the 90's. I'd say Desktop Linux has come a long way. In some ways it is easier to use than Windows. Most hardware will work out of the box - no hunting for driver cds. Distros come bundled with an office suite, a decent web browser. Videos play out of the box. Installing new software is a matter of launching the inbuilt "app store" and searching. This is a paradigm that most users will be comfortable with in this age.

Installation is easy - typically download an ISO file from the distro website. I'd recommend Linux Mint over Ubuntu. Get pen drive linux from http://www.pendrivelinux.com/ and create a bootable USB. Reboot your computer and follow the prompts. Oh and backup your data before you do anything.

There are plenty of Linux users on these forums - if you run into issues we can help.

And this is one of the plans I have with this Chromebook dual boot and get more exposure to Linux. I've heard good things about Mint and PuppyLinux
From what I have heard, Mint is really good for a beginner. And it's a Debian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian) derivate. So if you decide after a few years that you want something a bit more hardcore you can graduate to Debian (which I personally love).
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: libertarian4321 on March 31, 2016, 03:08:24 AM

I have used both Mac and PC for the better part of thirty years. Macs just... Work better for the average non-computer science person. They generally feel aesthetically better, they crash less often, they are more user-friendly... I have never flown into a blind rage using my Mac in the same way I frequently do using the Asus we have at home.


Crash less often?   Did I step into a Time Machine and get sent back to 1995?

I've been using personal computers since long before there was a "Mac" or a "PC" (starting as a teenager in 1978 on a Commodore PET).

20 years ago, Windows systems used to crash quite a lot. 

But that was a long, long time ago. 

I'm typing this on a 4+ year old Dell notebook running Windows 7.  I keep it on 24-7, 365.  I use it for work (I mostly work from home), surfing, games, and watching videos.  I use it for hours and hours every day, for every conceivable application. 

I can't remember the last time it "crashed."  And no, that's not because I'm old and senile. :)

If you are paying an extra $400 to buy a Mac because you like the OS better, or think it will make you "cool" and help you score chicks, go for it, but if you are spending all that money to avoid a (maybe once a year?) "crash," I'd suggest that you aren't spending your money wisely. 

Remember, every extra dollar you spend buying an expensive Apple product, when there are much cheaper alternatives that will do the job as well, is MANY extra dollars you won't have in retirement.  Do you really need "retina display" or do you just want it because Apple has done a masterful job of marketing it?

My philosophy on buying computers:  Buy the cheapest computer you can that will fit your needs.  Unless you are running ridiculously power consuming software, or a hard core gamer, you probably don't need a $1,200+ notebook computer.

I typically buy mid-range systems for both Notebooks and desktops (usually in the $800 range).  If all you are doing is web surfing, productivity (Office, etc) software, watching videos, and non-hardcore gaming, you can buy a wide variety of perfectly capable PC notebooks for about $800 for a 15".  If you go with an Apple product, a 15" notebook will set you back $2,000.

Buy the $800 computer and invest the difference in a good no-load mutual fund. 

You just need to figure out what is more important- do you need the status item (Macbook or iWhatever, Mercedes, Armani, etc) or would you rather be rich and have lower "status" equivalents (PC, Chevy, JC Penny, etc)?

The Millionaire Next Door probably ain't driving a Beemer.  He ain't wearing Armani, and he probably ain't doing his taxes on a $1,500 Macbook either.

On the other hand, if you have earnings like LeBron James or Kim Kardashian, go ahead and buy the Macbook, you can afford it.  But for most of us, we can't afford to buy status items and actually become rich.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: ender on March 31, 2016, 05:41:22 AM
My philosophy on buying computers:  Buy the cheapest computer you can that will fit your needs.  Unless you are running ridiculously power consuming software, or a hard core gamer, you probably don't need a $1,200+ notebook computer.

I typically buy mid-range systems for both Notebooks and desktops (usually in the $800 range).  If all you are doing is web surfing, productivity (Office, etc) software, watching videos, and non-hardcore gaming, you can buy a wide variety of perfectly capable PC notebooks for about $800 for a 15".  If you go with an Apple product, a 15" notebook will set you back $2,000.

It's amusing you write all that and then end up recommending spending $800 still on a computer. OP could spend a nominal amount more and get their retina Macbook Pro, especially if they go refurbished.

That being said, my previous Mac (which I used for 5+ years continuously until I sold it) cost me about $800 total for the time I used it, after selling it on Craigslist. I suspect my current machine will end up being a similar total cost whenever I eventually resell it.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: tobitonic on March 31, 2016, 07:15:04 AM
Much like pretty much any other electronic device (phone, printer, GPS, etc), it comes down to preference. For the last decade, I've been fully Linux--usually some version of Ubuntu. I used to run Windows, then had a number of Macs, got tired of them breaking as quickly (1-3 years) as my PC laptops while costing much more (yes, even refurbished...), so I switched to Linux to have the same virus-free experience while also not supporting giant greedy corporations (Apple or MS) and closed platforms.

My last laptop, a Samsung, cost around $420 after upgrading to 8 GB for an additional ~$65, and lasted ~3.5y as my main computer (so $120/yr). It still works and delivers ~1.5-2h battery life, but the audio jack broke (an issue that's affected many of my laptops), the Ctrl key is dead, and I had Linux compatibility issues whenever I upgraded to newer Ubuntus. For my most recent laptop, I decided to stop fooling around with consumer-aimed Acers and Samsungs and get a used Thinkpad this January. It's a T530, so it's already up to 4 years old (they were released in mid-2012). However, I fully expect to get 10 years out of it.

Upgraded RAM to 16 GB for an additional $63, and the laptop itself cost ~$320 with a 15" 1600x900 screen, i5, etc. With its half-dead battery I still get a solid 4.5h of battery life with web surfing, and when it drops too much, I'll get a new battery and know I can get probably net 7.5h from it. The laptop itself is built like a tank. I imagine if I'd been buying Thinkpads all this time instead of cheap Acers, Gateways, and Samsungs, I'd have gone through 1-2 laptops in the last decade, instead of...many more. I'm definitely only buying Thinkpads from now on. 

My wife has a 5-year old Dell that she recently upgraded to Windows 10 and that I upgraded to 8 GB. It still works fine, software-wise, but has a cracked bezel and next to zero battery life. She bought it for ~1000 I think, so $200/yr, which is still better than what a lot of folks will get with used Macs. I've suggested buying a new battery and switching to Linux, because W10 annoys her, but she's attached to Excel and doesn't want to invest more in the laptop. The DVD drive also stopped working a while ago. I think I've talked her into picking up a used Thinkpad when she's ready to switch, but for now, she's hanging on to it to avoid replacing functional gear, which is awesome.

Oh, and besides the build quality, the other reason I bought one is because they're known for rock solid Linux compatibility. It takes me ~2 sec to resume from sleep and about 1 sec to go to sleep, and everything works super smoothly. So from a guy who has spent extensive time on all 3 OSes (Windows, OS X, and Linux), I concur with those who say you can do good work with any; I just primarily wanted the additional security of the non-Windows OSes combined with the ability to support open and free software, which led me to Linux.

Hardware-wise, though, if you're going to run Linux and don't want to spend a lot of time researching / assembling compatible hardware (which is especially crucial in a laptop, since you can't tweak nearly as much as you can with a desktop), just get a Thinkpad. To save money, just get a used Thinkpad. A $200 or $300 machine will easily last you another 5-10 years, and the X-lines and newer T-lines are designed to give ridiculous (10h+) battery life, just as with the newest Macs.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: ReadySetMillionaire on March 31, 2016, 08:51:11 AM
The Mac v. PC v. Linux debate is interesting, and I'm going to get a lot of flack for this post, but I wanted to focus more on OP wanting to make an expensive purchase and why that's not a bad thing--so long as you do your research and make smart purchases that will prove to be worth it in the long term.

I think the early retirement community is way too obsessed with up front cost and, more importantly, anti-consumerism. People on here get so obsessed with the most minute details ("A millionaire is made $10 at a time!!!") that they fail to see the forest from the trees. Early retirement isn't worth it if you deprived yourself from all of your wants--and even purchased sub-quality necessary items--by buying used shit on Craigslist for twenty years.

After lurking on these forums and taking the "go the cheap route" advice on this forum multiple times, I finally had enough of the cheap bullshit and just started with the following mentality: if it costs over $200 anyway, I'm going to buy something that will last a lifetime (or for a very long time). This way I make purchases less frequently and more than likely come out ahead.

Take my elliptical for example. My GF and I recently purchased a Precor EFX 222 elliptical for $2,600 (or three years worth of our gym memberships). We could have renewed our gym memberships, we could have bought a Nordictrack (which are $600 but have an 84% repair rate in the first 120 days of ownership), we could have done a lot of other things. But instead we went with the best and most reliable brand. Our friend who owns a local gym came over the other night and she said that we picked one of the best machines out there and that it would last "probably 15-20 years, maybe longer." (That's $6,000 to $8,000 just in her gym memberships alone in case you're keeping score).

I'm absolutely certain I'm going to get the usual criticisms about this purchase: "it's going to turn into a coat rack;" "you're setting up false costs to justify the purchase;" "you should just run outside and do jumping jacks;" blah blah blah. Well, not that I feel obligated to justify my purchase, but my GF has gone to the gym 5x a week for almost a decade now ($34/month...that fixed cost is now gone...forever); she also needs a low impact workout due to significant hip issues (her dad needed both hips replaced in his low 60s, and she is on pace for that); I needed something at home because of my varying work schedule; we wanted something at home because we are planning on having kids soon and wanted to be able to workout while kids were taking a nap (but not leave them entirely); etc.

Fact is that we weighed our own personal financial situation, researched our purchase for almost four months, and ultimately made a sound decision based on our own personal wants and needs.

Moving along to other examples...I also just paid $500 for a push lawnmower (essentially the same model my dad bought back in...1992...and it still works), $480 for a new TV, and plan on spending $400 on new dress shirts this summer.

You're probably thinking by now...this guy doesn't sound very "mustachian." Well, I'm definitely not as thrifty as some on this board, but my GF and I have most of our financial house in order. We have very low fixed costs (live in a small 1100 square foot home that we are going to keep for life, have only one car payment, keep utilities low, etc.), will contribute a combined $30,000 to our 401ks this year (while planning for a wedding), and have over $15,000 in cash reserves. We are on pace to be 100% financially independent by age 46 (we are both 28 years old).

Of course, if we didn't make these big purchases, we could be financially independent by...42? 43? I'll take this time to point out how nice MMM's home is. He admits quite frequently how much he loves the comfort that a nice home provides each and every day. I feel the same way about not only my house, but the things I use each and every day (TV, dress shirts, elliptical, etc.).

I only go through all of this to make the following point: don't be a slave to numbers on the screen and don't feel forced to justify every purchase you make. If you have low fixed costs, a high savings rate, and have most of your financial house in order, then fuck it, buy yourself an awesome Mac and enjoy it for the next DECADE. It's worth it.

Edit to add to OP: just saw in another one of your posts that your savings rate is close to 50%. Drink a beer and relax. Cut your 401k contributions for a month and go buy a Mac.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Kris on March 31, 2016, 09:49:04 AM

I have used both Mac and PC for the better part of thirty years. Macs just... Work better for the average non-computer science person. They generally feel aesthetically better, they crash less often, they are more user-friendly... I have never flown into a blind rage using my Mac in the same way I frequently do using the Asus we have at home.


Crash less often?   Did I step into a Time Machine and get sent back to 1995?

I've been using personal computers since long before there was a "Mac" or a "PC" (starting as a teenager in 1978 on a Commodore PET).

20 years ago, Windows systems used to crash quite a lot. 

But that was a long, long time ago. 

I'm typing this on a 4+ year old Dell notebook running Windows 7.  I keep it on 24-7, 365.  I use it for work (I mostly work from home), surfing, games, and watching videos.  I use it for hours and hours every day, for every conceivable application. 

I can't remember the last time it "crashed."  And no, that's not because I'm old and senile. :)

If you are paying an extra $400 to buy a Mac because you like the OS better, or think it will make you "cool" and help you score chicks, go for it, but if you are spending all that money to avoid a (maybe once a year?) "crash," I'd suggest that you aren't spending your money wisely. 

Remember, every extra dollar you spend buying an expensive Apple product, when there are much cheaper alternatives that will do the job as well, is MANY extra dollars you won't have in retirement.  Do you really need "retina display" or do you just want it because Apple has done a masterful job of marketing it?

My philosophy on buying computers:  Buy the cheapest computer you can that will fit your needs.  Unless you are running ridiculously power consuming software, or a hard core gamer, you probably don't need a $1,200+ notebook computer.

I typically buy mid-range systems for both Notebooks and desktops (usually in the $800 range).  If all you are doing is web surfing, productivity (Office, etc) software, watching videos, and non-hardcore gaming, you can buy a wide variety of perfectly capable PC notebooks for about $800 for a 15".  If you go with an Apple product, a 15" notebook will set you back $2,000.

Buy the $800 computer and invest the difference in a good no-load mutual fund. 

You just need to figure out what is more important- do you need the status item (Macbook or iWhatever, Mercedes, Armani, etc) or would you rather be rich and have lower "status" equivalents (PC, Chevy, JC Penny, etc)?

The Millionaire Next Door probably ain't driving a Beemer.  He ain't wearing Armani, and he probably ain't doing his taxes on a $1,500 Macbook either.

On the other hand, if you have earnings like LeBron James or Kim Kardashian, go ahead and buy the Macbook, you can afford it.  But for most of us, we can't afford to buy status items and actually become rich.

Awesome for you. But:

1) No, I am not using it to be "cool". As I said above, which you are selectively ignoring, I have been using Macs since the mid-80s.

2) Every single PC I have used has had many more problems with crashing than any Mac I have ever used.  The last two laptops we have had were barely functional after two years. And that is with my husband who is a software developer who rebuilds them periodically because they are so fucked up.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: ooeei on March 31, 2016, 10:16:05 AM
The Mac v. PC v. Linux debate is interesting, and I'm going to get a lot of flack for this post, but I wanted to focus more on OP wanting to make an expensive purchase and why that's not a bad thing--so long as you do your research and make smart purchases that will prove to be worth it in the long term.

I think the early retirement community is way too obsessed with up front cost and, more importantly, anti-consumerism. People on here get so obsessed with the most minute details ("A millionaire is made $10 at a time!!!") that they fail to see the forest from the trees. Early retirement isn't worth it if you deprived yourself from all of your wants and by buying used shit on Craigslist for twenty years.

After lurking on these forums and taking the "go the cheap route" advice on this forum multiple times, I finally had enough of the cheap bullshit and just started with the following mentality: if it costs over $200 anyway, I'm going to buy something that will last a lifetime (or for a very long time). This way I make purchases less frequently and more than likely come out ahead.

Take my elliptical for example. My GF and I recently purchased a Precor EFX 222 elliptical for $2,600 (or three years worth of our gym memberships). We could have renewed our gym memberships, we could have bought a Nordictrack (which are $600 but have an 84% repair rate in the first 120 days of ownership), we could have done a lot of other things. But instead we went with the best and most reliable brand. Our friend who owns a local gym came over the other night and she said that we picked one of the best machines out there and that it would last "probably 15-20 years, maybe longer." (That's $6,000 to $8,000 just in her gym memberships alone in case you're keeping score).

I'm absolutely certain I'm going to get the usual criticisms about this purchase: "it's going to turn into a coat rack;" "you're setting up false costs to justify the purchase;" "you should just run outside and do jumping jacks;" blah blah blah. Well, not that I feel obligated to justify my purchase, but my GF has gone to the gym 5x a week for almost a decade now ($34/month...that fixed cost is now gone...forever); she also needs a low impact workout due to significant hip issues (her dad needed both hips replaced in his low 50s, and she is on pace for that); I needed something at home because of my varying work schedule; we wanted something at home because we are planning on having kids soon and wanted to be able to workout while kids were taking a nap (but not leave them entirely); etc.

Fact is that we weighed our own personal financial situation, researched our purchase for almost four months, and ultimately made a sound decision based on our own personal wants and needs.

Moving along to other examples...I also just paid $500 for a push lawnmower (essentially the same model my dad bought back in...1992...and it still works), $480 for a new TV, and plan on spending $400 on new dress shirts this summer.

You're probably thinking by now...this guy doesn't sound very "mustachian." Well, I'm definitely not as thrifty as some on this board, but my GF and I have most of our financial house in order. We have very low fixed costs (live in a small 1100 square foot home that we are going to keep for life, have only one car payment, keep utilities low, etc.), will contribute a combined $30,000 to our 401ks this year (while planning for a wedding), and have over $15,000 in cash reserves. We are on pace to be 100% financially independent by age 46 (we are both 28 years old).

Of course, if we didn't make these big purchases, we could be financially independent by...42? 43? I'll take this time to point out how nice MMM's home is. He admits quite frequently how much he loves the comfort that a nice home provides each and every day. I feel the same way about not only my house, but the things I use each and every day (TV, dress shirts, elliptical, etc.).

I only go through all of this to make the following point: don't be a slave to numbers on the screen and don't feel forced to justify every purchase you make. If you have low fixed costs, a high savings rate, and have most of your financial house in order, then fuck it, buy yourself an awesome Mac and enjoy it for the next DECADE. It's worth it.

Edit to add to OP: just saw in another one of your posts that your savings rate is close to 50%. Drink a beer and relax. Cut your 401k contributions for a month and go buy a Mac.

OP has had a 50% savings rate for I believe a few months.  I'm fairly sure his net worth is <$15k. He's also all over the place on questions, talked about buying his dad a house (even though his dad has a job), talked about spending $900 on a home gym, and just made a post about how bummed he is FIRE isn't coming to him sooner.  He's trying to learn and I commend him, he's made a lot of positive steps.

With that being said, busting out the beer and celebrating with a $1200 computer seems a bit premature for me.  I hear you about spending on things that are really important to you and are worth it, but the reason there's so much resistance is because you can justify spending extra money on EVERYTHING.  "I drive a lot, so my $30,000 car is worth it."  "I have a really stressful job, so this house is only $400 more a month, I have the money"  "I'm really stressed at work, so packing lunches is the last thing I want to do in the evenings, I'll just go to restaurants."  People do this every day.

It's not that you should NEVER buy expensive or long lasting things, but you should seriously consider not buying the top end of everything you get, especially when it's something that is not a lifetime purchase.  Would you rather we were in a forum where someone comes in saying they're saving 40% and really think Teslas are cool, and every response is "You're savings rate is great, sure go for it."  People don't come here for others to help them justify buying unnecessary things, they come here to hear reasons why not to buy it.  Hell in the OP he said "must resist." 

I get that your elliptical was a great buy for you, but every single elliptical I've ever seen in someone's home is unused.  Every single one.  In spite of your post here, if my friends came to me and asked my opinion about buying an elliptical, I would give them plenty of reasons not to buy one that costs $2500 (or one at all).  If they still want to do it that's fine, but I think it's important to have someone argue against those impulses once in awhile.  Likewise, the vast majority of people who use computers do not need a $1200 MacBook.  A $400 Windows PC will do the exact same stuff, although it may be a bit less smooth.  Is having a moderate increase to the efficiency with which you browse youtube and amazon (two things that most people should be doing less of anyway) worth $800?  I'm a bit skeptical.  If OP is a programmer or video editor and can do his job more effectively with a Mac, go nuts.  He isn't. 
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: Emergo on March 31, 2016, 10:55:46 AM
Yes, my net worth currently is close to15k, but should be 40k by the end of the year. Yeah my dad has a job, but his finances arent manageable due to debt and low pay. I have more self control than yall think, the 50% will be achievable. This macbook is probably my only guilty pleasure.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: forestj on March 31, 2016, 11:56:27 AM
Do you want a laptop instead of a desktop? If so, why?

Do you want a powerful computer? If so, why? And how powerful? Coming from something 10 years old, even a $500 used, un-upgraded MBP would feel like blazing into the future on a rocket powered rainbow.

My recommendation echoes what others have said: Get the old MBP and upgrade it (SSD, RAM, and OS). The best model would probably be the last one that had a replace-able battery. It's probably the easiest and best cheap laptop option, IMO, even if you *dont* want Mac. If you aren't confident with a screwdriver and can't follow simple instructions, pay someone to upgrade it for you.

If you actually just want a powerful computer, not a laptop, and you want it to run OSX, then check out http://www.tonymacx86.com/building-customac-buyers-guide-march-2016.html

That's what I did for several years. It is the DIY version of mac, but it works pretty well for the typical user. I did run into the occasional hiccup, like the sound cutting out or network not connecting, but "Did you try turning it off and on again??" always fixed the issue. And the amount of computer you can get for $500 or $800 is staggering, especially if you build it yourself using parts from newegg (its literally like plugging lego bricks together).

To be honest, I did eventually switch to Windows 10 because eventually the auto-updates stopped working on my custom install of OSX, and it was more compatible with tools I use at work and I didn't like dual-booting.

If you just ignore the stupid "metro ui" and don't use it, then windows 8.1 and windows 10 are quite easy to use. I find it slightly easier and more responsive than Linux, albeit less customizable and with less nerd-cred. Also, there is no Photoshop or video games on Linux. That was the main deal breaker for me.
Title: Re: I want a new macbook badly
Post by: ReadySetMillionaire on March 31, 2016, 12:01:36 PM
OP has had a 50% savings rate for I believe a few months.  I'm fairly sure his net worth is <$15k. He's also all over the place on questions, talked about buying his dad a house (even though his dad has a job), talked about spending $900 on a home gym, and just made a post about how bummed he is FIRE isn't coming to him sooner.  He's trying to learn and I commend him, he's made a lot of positive steps.

With that being said, busting out the beer and celebrating with a $1200 computer seems a bit premature for me.  I hear you about spending on things that are really important to you and are worth it, but the reason there's so much resistance is because you can justify spending extra money on EVERYTHING.  "I drive a lot, so my $30,000 car is worth it."  "I have a really stressful job, so this house is only $400 more a month, I have the money"  "I'm really stressed at work, so packing lunches is the last thing I want to do in the evenings, I'll just go to restaurants."  People do this every day.

It's not that you should NEVER buy expensive or long lasting things, but you should seriously consider not buying the top end of everything you get, especially when it's something that is not a lifetime purchase.  Would you rather we were in a forum where someone comes in saying they're saving 40% and really think Teslas are cool, and every response is "You're savings rate is great, sure go for it."  People don't come here for others to help them justify buying unnecessary things, they come here to hear reasons why not to buy it.  Hell in the OP he said "must resist." 

I get that your elliptical was a great buy for you, but every single elliptical I've ever seen in someone's home is unused.  Every single one.  In spite of your post here, if my friends came to me and asked my opinion about buying an elliptical, I would give them plenty of reasons not to buy one that costs $2500 (or one at all).  If they still want to do it that's fine, but I think it's important to have someone argue against those impulses once in awhile.  Likewise, the vast majority of people who use computers do not need a $1200 MacBook.  A $400 Windows PC will do the exact same stuff, although it may be a bit less smooth.  Is having a moderate increase to the efficiency with which you browse youtube and amazon (two things that most people should be doing less of anyway) worth $800?  I'm a bit skeptical.  If OP is a programmer or video editor and can do his job more effectively with a Mac, go nuts.  He isn't.

Good post. I think we agree on a lot of this. It all has to do with balance. OP needs to find that balance for him. FIRE should not be so focused on depravity, because if it is, you're bound to burn out.