The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: handsnhearts on May 13, 2015, 03:44:26 PM
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I had a job offer and submitted my counter proposal yesterday morning (I just double-checked that it was sent!)
The job is low paying for the field, but typical because it serves low-income folks.
They already have offered my as much salary as they are going to (it went up a bit), but it is still $20-50k less than my industry. However I am only working part time, so half that difference to $10-25k difference.
In my counter proposal, I asked for a lot. Including paying my tuition for the next 2 years, more vacation, larger moving reimbursement, extra vacation time etc. I don't expect them to give it all to me. It probably won't pass the laugh test. But I realized, a) if I didn't ask, I would always regret it. b) this is one major reason women earn less than men, because we don't ask for it and then it compounds over the course of our career. c)I have another verbal offer for a few months from now. d) I have 3 other options to finish interviewing if I want to. e) there are new options in my field all the time f) I can always take some temp work if things get dicey.
I sent my counter-proposal yesterday morning. I would like this job, it would be a good next step for me, career wise and happiness wise.
I haven't heard a peep back. Not even an acknowledgement of receiving it. I am nervous now. I know I asked for too much. But I needed to. They indicated that they really want me, and I am a perfect fit for them right now and I have an amazing reference that helped seal the deal.
My question is
Should I just lie low and wait? Should I contact them to make sure they received it? I think I should just wait. Right?
My stomach is all in knots. I've never done this before.
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Lay low, don't crack.
You're taking turns with the offers now, don't play out of turn or you risk weakening your hand.
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I don't understand how its part time. Is this contract work or something? What size is the company?
I'd probably just wait. You did ask for way too much; most HR isn't that flexible. Negotiate salary, the benefits are pretty standard for everyone else. Depends on field obviously.
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Hang tight. They got your counteroffer. Give them time to evaluate it. The fact that they didn't write back immediately with the equivalent of "what, are you NUTS!?!?!" is actually a good sign, I think.
You should shoot for the moon. You are a rock star.
Repeat after me again: I am a female primary care physician moving to a very affluent area. I am an extremely hot commodity. I can and will get the job I deserve and that works for me and my family.
Temping for awhile immediately after your move might be absolutely the best thing you can do -- will give you a chance to suss out the market and evaluate where you really want to be and how much you want/need to work.
Everything lhamo says x100! if you asked for a bunch of benefit stuff and it is standardized across the company they will not have bargaining power BUT they might want you bad enough that the HR person has gone up the ladder to see what they CAN do for you.
Waiting is always the hardest part - but it sounds like there are a ton of opportunities for you out there and if this isn't the best fit, something better will come along.
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Thanks! I do feel a bit better. I'm not worried about other opportunities, but this one is one of the best in terms of fit and happiness factor. I'm trying to not sweat it...
I think the anxiety about moving is carrying over into all of the rest of everything. My anxiety thermostat is turned way up right now. On the plus side, I was able to meditate at the dentist's today, while in the chair...
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So I got my response (at 10:30 at night!). As I suspected, they are pretty limited by organizational policy. They weren't able to meet much of anything, except possibly an increased relocation benefit (which is taxable income), and some vague promises of trying to increase education allowance and pay for licensing in the future. I think these are good, trustworthy and honorable people but I am enough of a cynic these days to want things in writing. Now I need to decide if this is the right job for me.
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Sounds like you need to do a few more interviews asap.
It's always harder to make a decision when you're presented with one offer at a time. I think it's better to do a bunch of interviewing at once, so you have some feel for what your options are and can then decide between them.
One way to look at your current decision is to compare turning down the job to taking the job (as offered) while you continue to look. They don't own you if you sign on, you can always leave in six months if something better comes along. So I might consider taking the position and mentally classifying it as a stepping stone while you continue to actively pursue other options.
Maybe they'll really come through for you, and in six months you won't want to change jobs. But even if you do want to switch, you've at least had six months of paycheck that you wouldn't have otherwise had.
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I think these are good, trustworthy and honorable people but I am enough of a cynic these days to want things in writing. Now I need to decide if this is the right job for me.
So the first offer does usually come in writing, they're hoping you just accept it. After that, they don't usually give it in writing until you have finished negotiating. It takes time for them to write it up and get approval, and if there's a chance it'll get rejected again, that's a waste of time. If you decide their offer is acceptable, tell them, and they'll write it up. Review their offer later to make sure everything is in writing.
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Thanks. I have been interviewing and i have another possible opportunity in about 5-6 months. There are 4-5 other possibilities as well, and I've interviewed at one, phone interviewed at another, and have an application in at a third. But I already know that these 2 are the top choices, and they are wildly different. I like the concept of a stepping stone, but I'm not sure if I could do that to them, although they have only asked for 3 months notice so it could be possible. I could give it a try, see if my concerns are justified, and if I can deal with it or not. If not, I can move on.
MrMoogle - thanks for the info about the offer. At least I wasn't dumb enough to fall for that old trick.
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I had a job offer and submitted my counter proposal yesterday morning (I just double-checked that it was sent!)
The job is low paying for the field, but typical because it serves low-income folks.
They already have offered my as much salary as they are going to (it went up a bit), but it is still $20-50k less than my industry. However I am only working part time, so half that difference to $10-25k difference.
In my counter proposal, I asked for a lot. Including paying my tuition for the next 2 years, more vacation, larger moving reimbursement, extra vacation time etc. I don't expect them to give it all to me. It probably won't pass the laugh test. But I realized, a) if I didn't ask, I would always regret it. b) this is one major reason women earn less than men, because we don't ask for it and then it compounds over the course of our career. c)I have another verbal offer for a few months from now. d) I have 3 other options to finish interviewing if I want to. e) there are new options in my field all the time f) I can always take some temp work if things get dicey.
I sent my counter-proposal yesterday morning. I would like this job, it would be a good next step for me, career wise and happiness wise.
I haven't heard a peep back. Not even an acknowledgement of receiving it. I am nervous now. I know I asked for too much. But I needed to. They indicated that they really want me, and I am a perfect fit for them right now and I have an amazing reference that helped seal the deal.
My question is
Should I just lie low and wait? Should I contact them to make sure they received it? I think I should just wait. Right?
My stomach is all in knots. I've never done this before.
I'm an HR Manager. They're talking. Give them time to talk. They are doing their best to make it happen.
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I'm an HR Manager. They're talking. Give them time to talk. They are doing their best to make it happen.
Thanks choppingwood. You may have missed my above post where they did respond. But I do appreciate it from an HR perspective. It doesn't seem like this group has much wiggle room, as they have mentioned multiple times about having universal policies for all employees. Unfortunate, but not directed at me personally.
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I'm an HR Manager. They're talking. Give them time to talk. They are doing their best to make it happen.
Thanks choppingwood. You may have missed my above post where they did respond. But I do appreciate it from an HR perspective. It doesn't seem like this group has much wiggle room, as they have mentioned multiple times about having universal policies for all employees. Unfortunate, but not directed at me personally.
I missed it. They did talk, though. Just couldn't persuade anyone internally that there was a way to move off the policies.
You just keep looking until the completely right opportunity comes along. And show nerves of steel while you wait for them to respond to your counteroffer.
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I can reasonably understand the company being less flexible about benefits in the interests of fairness/uniformity with the rest of the employees.
At this point, I'd be responding with something like "okay, since you can't increase the education/training allowance and other benefits, could you just give me the equivalent increase in salary?"
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I can reasonably understand the company being less flexible about benefits in the interests of fairness/uniformity with the rest of the employees.
At this point, I'd be responding with something like "okay, since you can't increase the education/training allowance and other benefits, could you just give me the equivalent increase in salary?"
+1
That's what I would do, although it appears that in your case, time off and flexibility may be more important than $$$. If that is true, then I think you need to look at the other opportunities you have.
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I can reasonably understand the company being less flexible about benefits in the interests of fairness/uniformity with the rest of the employees.
At this point, I'd be responding with something like "okay, since you can't increase the education/training allowance and other benefits, could you just give me the equivalent increase in salary?"
+2
I asked for extra PTO during my most recent negotiation when it became clear that the total comp number couldn't budge off a particular number. This is a small company, so they have way more flexibility than larger organizations would.
Best of luck HnH! I'm glad you shot for the moon!
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In my experience with my current employers, being rigid about HR policies is a huge red flag. I understand the need for consistency and fairness, but it isn't appropriate to be talking out of your ass about how you want employees to be able to "grow" with the organization while at the same time being extremely limited in what you offer them.
Totally projecting my own issues here, but I would proceed with caution with this organization, especially since you have other options.
This is a non sequitor. Established HR benefits (which are a fortune to administer) is completely uncorrelated with how they treat their employees. Most companies have exactly zero wiggle room for 99.9% of their employees and can treat their employees well or like absolute crap from there.
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So glad you asked for everything you wanted. It's hard, but absolutely the right thing to do. I sounds like you'd really like to work for this organization. If you decide to take the offer I definitely would clarify the vague things they "might" be able to give you and get it in writing. You might feel like a jerk when you insist, but they are used to this stuff and will likely either not think a thing of it or respect you for it. Without getting it in writing all kinds of tensions and misunderstandings are likely to crop up.
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So my very wise younger sis advised me to tell them how discouraged I was by the way the process was going. I was hesitant because it seemed soft or unprofessional, but I trusted her. I got several phone calls, encouragement, a commitment to the dollar amount of the relocation fund, a review of the PTO (no changes but a much clearer understanding and there is a tiny bit more there than I thought and a reminder of flexible scheduling). And an offer to reconsider on my tuition in exchange for x years of commitment. So I am waiting on their reply now to this part and then I should be done.
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Got a response. Not exactly what I had hoped for, but about $800 annually extra towards education with no extra commitment. I have accepted the offer. Thank you everyone for your support, encouragement and advice.
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Was worth a shot. Congrats on the new job! :)
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Looks like you already made your decision, so congratulations!
I would just add that it's a personal decision whether the "happiness" factors outweigh the financial ones. It also makes a difference what kind of numbers we're talking about in total as well.
70 vs 50k is a huge difference, whereas 150 vs 130k is much less significant. At that point, you can certainly be more choosy about other factors. Who knows, maybe you're a rockstar and it's 300 vs 280k. :)
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Thanks everyone. I also negotiated 2 more weeks off before starting. So that feels a lot better to me. I'm happy to have some extra downtime to get my life and house together after moving.
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I think these are good, trustworthy and honorable people but I am enough of a cynic these days to want things in writing. Now I need to decide if this is the right job for me.
So the first offer does usually come in writing, they're hoping you just accept it. After that, they don't usually give it in writing until you have finished negotiating. It takes time for them to write it up and get approval, and if there's a chance it'll get rejected again, that's a waste of time. If you decide their offer is acceptable, tell them, and they'll write it up. Review their offer later to make sure everything is in writing.
Excellent points.