I just can't anymore with work. Looking for some perspectives.

[MSAEK]

Hi. I'm looking to gain some perspective from those in a similar situation.

I've been an engineering manager for the past 10 years, and I just can't anymore. I'm toying with the idea of going back to a non-management role which I feel like I'd enjoy more, but I think the problem is bigger. The mere thought of even a single more day of work is giving me near panic attacks.

Some background to contextualize. I grew up in abject poverty, so my relationship to money hasn't always been healthy. Managed to claw myself out. My total compensation didn't break $160K until a couple years ago when I landed an engineering manager position paying $450K TC. I saw my net worth progress faster than ever before. My goal was to stick it out a few more years until all my shares vest and then ease off the accelerator into coast mode. But work is kicking my ass right now, and sustainability has become an issue.

Here's a stupid example. I can't tell if my director simply doesn't like me or is just socially awkward (which many people say he is). Regardless, I'm here stressing about the stupidest things like when my manager doesn't say "happy birthday" or "happy anniversary" to me when I see him doing this for his other directs. I hate that I'm thinking about dumb shit like this and the amount of control and mindshare that he and work have over me. My manager is also micromanagerial and overly prescriptive, but worse than that is his patronizing style of communication. My relationship with my manager is the biggest stressor, and I don't see an easy way out such as transferring to another team.

Financially, I've about $850K in a taxable brokerage, $850K in retirement account and about $80K saved for college in a 529 plan. Also have a rental that generals $1000 cash flow per month. My wife works on a $100K year salary and our health care is covered by her work. Her income alone won't cover all our expenses, because we spent about $90K a year in 2023.

I've been seriously contemplating taking a 6-mo to a year long break to cool my head and figure out the next steps. A few options I've been mulling over:

1. I'm in the mobile apps space, and have a couple apps in the app store right now generating about $400 / month. I'd like to see if I can increase the revenue.

2. Look to switch to another department, but I heard I need a good relationship with my director in order for this to be a possibility.

3. Look for a non-managerial role within my company. But I'd have to go through the full interview loop. Though I am technical, I've been out of the game long enough that I lack confidence nor do I have any desire to grind through the studies.

4. Look for a contracting / consulting gig. My total comp would drop considerably, not to mention I don't know where to find gigs like this? And will it be any less stressful? If anyone has insights to share here, I'd appreciate some advice on how to get my foot in the door.

I'd be leaving a lot of money on the table if I resign. I recently hit my 1 year cliff, and I get equity and also my 2nd year portion of the sign on bonus every 3 months from here on out. I'd also be giving up a fully remote gig. I don't know if I'll be able to find a high paying position like this if I resign. I have two young kids to put through college, so it's been weighing no me. I've been at an impasse for the past month.

If you are around my age in a similar situation, I'd love to hear how you navigated or are thinking about navigating this situation. It's only Saturday but I'm here worrying about work on Monday.

[Morning Glory]

Sounds like it's time to at least take a leave for mental health.
Do you have any expenses like daycare that will go away if you quit work? Anything else you are willing to downsize or cut in order to pull the plug sooner?

[Blackeagle]

Looking at your post, what comes to mind to me is you don't seem to realize the immense amount of options and power that your stache gives you.  You are way past FU money at this point.  With $1.7 mil in investments and $12k/year in rental income, you are very close to being FI on $90k/year spending.  If you had to, I bet you could find enough fat to cut in that $90k to make it work.  Even setting aside your wife's income, you probably don't really need a job at this point.  You definitely don't need this particular job. 

Yes, your current job is very lucrative, but the biggest benefit it (plus some good spending and savings decisions on your part) has given you is that the money doesn't matter unless you decide that it matters.  You have the power to walk away if you want to.

You can use that power in a couple of ways.  Obviously, you can actually walk away.  However, you can also ask your employer for a 6-month unpaid sabbatical, a transfer for another team, a move to a non-technical role, secure in the knowledge that you have options if they say no. 

Also, you may find your current position is a lot less stressful if you can internalize that it doesn't really matter if you're director doesn't like you, that you don't have to worry about pleasing your micromanaging boss and can ignore his patronizing communication because you always have the option to walk.

[Kris]

Looking at your post, what comes to mind to me is you don't seem to realize the immense amount of options and power that your stache gives you.  You are way past FU money at this point.  With $1.7 mil in investments and $12k/year in rental income, you are very close to being FI on $90k/year spending.  If you had to, I bet you could find enough fat to cut in that $90k to make it work.  Even setting aside your wife's income, you probably don't really need a job at this point.  You definitely don't need this particular job. 

Yes, your current job is very lucrative, but the biggest benefit it (plus some good spending and savings decisions on your part) has given you is that the money doesn't matter unless you decide that it matters.  You have the power to walk away if you want to.

You can use that power in a couple of ways.  Obviously, you can actually walk away.  However, you can also ask your employer for a 6-month unpaid sabbatical, a transfer for another team, a move to a non-technical role, secure in the knowledge that you have options if they say no. 

Also, you may find your current position is a lot less stressful if you can internalize that it doesn't really matter if you're director doesn't like you, that you don't have to worry about pleasing your micromanaging boss and can ignore his patronizing communication because you always have the option to walk.

This was my first thought, too. OP, I’d say that step one, no matter what you decide to do, is to realize that there is no reason at all for you to stress about anything at your job. Worry that your director doesn’t like you because he didn’t say happy birthday to you? Meh, doesn’t matter. Your micromanaging boss is irritating you with his tone? Meh, who cares, he isn’t that important.

Your job is not threatened right now. So no reason to stress about it. And even if it was, there wouldn’t be any reason to stress about it because there is nothing they could do to you that would really hurt you that much. Even firing you wouldn’t be that big a deal, really.

You’ve won the biggest part of the game: freedom from fear.

[Holocene]

The mere thought of even a single more day of work is giving me near panic attacks.

Financially, I've about $850K in a taxable brokerage, $850K in retirement account and about $80K saved for college in a 529 plan. Also have a rental that generals $1000 cash flow per month. My wife works on a $100K year salary and our health care is covered by her work. Her income alone won't cover all our expenses, because we spent about $90K a year in 2023.

Here's what I see... Your job is affecting your health.  You have enough saved and you're in a great position that you should absolutely prioritize your health over making more money right now.

Your wife basically makes enough to cover your expenses.  If she's happy at her job and willing to work a few more years, then you could probably retire now.  You're pretty close to having $90k with your savings and rental income.  If you could lower your expenses by $10-20k, then you'd both likely be able to retire today.

I'd recommend asking for a sabbatical.  If your anxiety is bad enough, you might be able to do FMLA.  I think you need some time away from the stressful job to get a clear mind about what to do next.  It does not sound healthy at all to stay.

For what it's worth, my job was a lot less stressful and anxiety inducing than yours sounds.  I liked it some of the time but was burnt out and FI so I put in my resignation in spring 2022.  It turned into a 6 month sabbatical and a shift to a different part-time job.  It turns out the company kind of wanted to keep me around if they could.  I like the new job a lot more, but still sort of sick of having a job when I don't really need it.  So I'll likely part ways this spring or see if I can go fully remote to gain some more freedom.  But I'm glad I asked for what I wanted and gave this a try.  And the sabbatical was key.  Taking time away made me see things more clearly, plus it gave a clear break between my old job and new job.

[Chaplin]

I was in a pretty similar situation in many ways. I would sit in the car for a few minutes before going in to the office, talking myself into going in. I left that job and the new one turned out to be worse. I left that for one that was probably better than either but still leaving me unhappy, unhealthy, stress, not present for my wife and son, etc. I FIRE'd based on a predetermined date more than a stash value. Now I do some much more fun work for a fraction of the pay (temp work at the post office, mechanic at a bike shop, election worker, etc.). These things improve the SWR and are fun.

With your wife's pay, depending on how long she wants to work, you could operate at something like a 0.5% WR, so what does it matter if her salary doesn't fully cover your expenses? Finding a job that pays 10% of what you currently make, and 1% of the stress, could also cover the difference without any withdrawals....

It's very hard to see the way out when you feel you can't go on another day but also feel like you're 95% of the way to the goal and aren't sure how you'll cross the finish line if you quit now. That was a big challenge of mine. I'm glad I had more-or-less set a date to walk away, rather than a dollar amount. My health and happiness are far, far better and I'm really enjoying trying all kinds of new things.

[lucenzo11]

In reading your post here are the things that stand out to me:

- You despise work right now and don't want to be there.
- You're mentally/emotionally exhausted at work.
- You feel like you need this job or that you atleast need to stay there until your shares are vested. You feel trapped.
- You feel that every potential solution is either too hard or not ideal.
- You have money.

Here's what I would recommend you consider:
- Take some time off if you haven't recently. You need a break to clear your head a bit. I'd say at least a week but if you can do more or even unpaid/FMLA leave as others have suggested, that's even better.
- If you are not already, it may be worth seeing a professional therapist to talk this through. They could really help to reframe a lot of these issues with your boss.
- Probably based on your situation growing up and getting out of poverty, you probably view this job as something you can't lose, but if your boss doesn't like you or if you are so miserable that there is a chance that you might just quit one day, then don't make a decision in comparison to having your job. Instead, assume you won't have your job in a month from now (either by your choice or theirs). Now think about what it is that you can do to make your future in this role or at the company sustainable. It's okay if you ruffle some feathers or choose a path that doesn't pay as much as your current role, because you may not have that role in a couple weeks anyways.

Last, how much money are we talking with these shares and the bonus (if you are willing to share)? A lot of your reasoning seems tied to these and it's tough to tell if this even matters in comparison to the rest of your investments.

[LightStache]

I went through this at the end of 2022. In late 2019 I landed a gig that netted $275K before tax. I had worked for a couple years to make this deal happen and it was well above my market compensation. I was able to divert over $100K into retirement plans, had a ton of autonomy, and excellent work-life balance.

But natural team turnover had me working with a few obnoxiously stupid people. I knew I shouldn't let them get to me, but I couldn't control it. My frustration and anxiety was sky high AND I was frustrated with myself for letting it get to me for no good reason. What job doesn't have stupid people, amirite?

So I off-ramped that gig at the end of 2022 to take a sabbatical and pivot to a different career. I could have taken a six month sabbatical and gone back, but at the time the thought of having to return seemed terrible.

Now it's been a year and I'm still trying to look for a job that's "good enough." As you know the job market in tech (and space, where I work) is tepid at best. That's caused it's own anxiety, but at least I feel like that's a more rational anxiety.

I'm still hopeful to land something I enjoy for my last six years of corporate work, but with the advantage of hindsight, I'd probably just do a six month sabbatical. If after returning I was still miserable, then I'd execute a pivot to another job.

[MSAEK]

Last, how much money are we talking with these shares and the bonus (if you are willing to share)? A lot of your reasoning seems tied to these and it's tough to tell if this even matters in comparison to the rest of your investments.

Thank you and everyone for the thoughtful responses. They've been helping me process everything better.

It'll be around $65K before taxes every 3 months.

One of my other fears is age discrimination in tech. I'm right up at that age where it really starts to matter. If I take a year off of work, I'm afraid it'll be much harder to find a job.
 

[Morning Glory]

Is part of your 90k spend mortgage payments? Those are treated a bit differently than the rest of your spending when doing fire math because they don't go up with inflation and will eventually go away. Cfiresim and rich-broke-dead are a couple of good calculators if you are on the fence about numbers. 

[Loren Ver]

You are thinking about the money part, which is totally normal, but you have already handled the money part.  Your families numbers are good overall, they maybe just need a little time or tweaking.

What you need to be thinking about is what you want to do with your other resources: time and energy.  You only have a limited amount of both of those. 

So ask yourself, what do you WANT to be doing?  You and your family have bought yourself the opportunity to ask yourself this question and then actually pursue it. 

What do you want to do now since you no longer need to chase the money?

Loren

[the lorax]

Hi - I"m in a fairly similar situation here - mid forties, am in a management role, also struggle with my direct manager who is good at some stuff but can be very abrasive, blindsides me quite often and has pretty low emotional intelligence I think. As a result I had a resurgence of an anxiety issue about 6 months ago. I took a week off straightway after being urged to by a couple of colleagues I'm close with and whose opinion I value. I also got to see a counsellor through our workplace scheme which really helped. I would also suggest you take a couple of weeks off if you can and just let yourself blob, don't try to do anything productive or come up with any answers!
A couple of things that counsellor suggested for me that may work for you:
1 - Delay, Distract, Decide - basically if something like that happens again with your director - put the though on hold if you can by deliberately doing something else, then possibly talk it over with someone else like your wife before you react where at all possible. A lot of the things I get ansious over don't seem that big with hindsight so see if you can train yourself to take a pause
2 - my counsellor had me write out plans every day of what I was doing that day - including at the weekends, to help me get through - it will also prompt you to schedule in time for a walk/exercise which will help with any anxiety hormones
3 - Write a visual plan of where you'd like to get to in a year's time with your life and then map back from there to tangible small steps you can do to work towards that

Like others have said, you are objectively in a good position with your finances and you have a supportive spouse. It's not just as easy unfortuantely though as telling yourself logically that you shouldn't be stressed! See if you can take a couple of weeks off soon, and investigate whether taking a sabbatical for 6 months is something your employer would support.

I'm also concerned about the ageism issue with my career but taking it as a sabbatical would help alleviate that. In your case you could also easily explain away a short break in a subsequent job interview as you were taking time to develop some apps etc

All the best -

PS chamomile tea, magnesium etc can help. I found this book really helpful in looking for things to support:

https://www.amazon.com/Why-Am-Anxious-Recognizing-Restoring/dp/0744057043

[Log]

Looking at your post, what comes to mind to me is you don't seem to realize the immense amount of options and power that your stache gives you.  You are way past FU money at this point.  With $1.7 mil in investments and $12k/year in rental income, you are very close to being FI on $90k/year spending.  If you had to, I bet you could find enough fat to cut in that $90k to make it work.  Even setting aside your wife's income, you probably don't really need a job at this point.  You definitely don't need this particular job....

Cannot emphasize this enough. The point of accumulating all this money is flexibility and freedom. You may not feel your stache is large enough to buy you "retirement" levels of freedom. But it sure as hell buys you more freedom than you are currently leveraging. Retirement is a spectrum. You have far too hefty of a stache to put yourself through a job that is this bad for your well-being.

I'd add, you say you don't know "where to find" contracting/consulting gigs. My expectation/understanding, is that if you open up your time, and let your professional network know that you're available and interested, these kinds of opportunities will find their way to you.

[Laura33]

I also have money "issues" from childhood poverty, so I get it.  I think you are looking at this wrong:  you are focused on finding another job that will replace your $450K salary.  But you don't actually need that.  All you need is to bring in enough money to close the gap in your budget.

So the first thing you do is you go home and you take a very close look at your budget and your income without a job.  There will be some significant differences that you are likely not accounting for:

-- Your taxes will be much, much lower, leaving you a much higher proportion of your wife's $100K income than you are currently getting.

-- You will get at least some financial aid from colleges with an income of $100K, whereas with an income of $550K, it's all on you. 

-- If you are not working, you will have much more time to do things like grocery shopping, cooking, and cleaning.  These things give you the opportunity to decrease the amount of income you need to cover the budget.

-- Depending on your skills, you could take over managing the rental and doing your own repairs, possibly saving $$ on things you currently have to outsource.

Etc.

Crunch the numbers, hard.  Look at the budget, figure out what you can cut if needed; run a tax estimator to figure out exactly what you'll be working with.  I will bet you $20 you will find you could get by indefinitely if you never get another job again.  PM me if I'm wrong (I'm not).  ;-) 

Once you have the security of knowing that you will be just fine even if you never work again, you have two options:

1.  Ask for leave, ASAP, right now, don't wait another day.  If they won't give it to you, quit.  Your mental and physical health are far, far more important than anything else.

2.  Play the game of "when will they fire me?"  Once you realize that you don't actually need this job, or any other full-time job in this industry ever again, the stress of losing the job goes away.  I mean, sure, the money is fantastic, but you don't need it; you probably also have a lot of pride and ego wrapped up into doing your job (people don't tend to work their way up to that kind of money without it), but that's something that's better addressed in therapy vs. sticking with a job that makes you miserable.  OTOH, it would sure be cool to continue to get an extra $65K every quarter, right?  So decide that you'll do the bare minimum at work and ignore all the internal politics and micromanagement and such.  You can even make a game of it -- take bets at home over how long it will take them to get rid of you (with the loser doing dishes for a week), go open a bottle of wine on the porch every time another $65K vests and have a mini-party with your DW, knowing that you're basically putting on over on everyone.  Watch "Office Space" at least quarterly as a reminder.  ;-) 

Obviously, option 2 may not work if even the bare minimum means too much stress, or if you can't force yourself to do the bare minimum.  But if you can make that mental shift from "I need to prove my value" to "who gives a fuck if they fire me," you can cut your stress dramatically while still getting the same pay. 

[tweezers]

<snip>

Obviously, option 2 may not work if even the bare minimum means too much stress, or if you can't force yourself to do the bare minimum.  But if you can make that mental shift from "I need to prove my value" to "who gives a fuck if they fire me," you can cut your stress dramatically while still getting the same pay.

I had a micromanaging supervisor who was also not that bright (but thought he was god's gift), and I lived by the mantra "don't get mad, just get paid".  I had an above-average salary, but early career and still accruing.  At $450K, I would work hard to try and do the same.  However, if you're not able to get there, you don't need this job (which is a great place to be).  Good luck.

[the_hobbitish]

I agree with all the suggestions to take some time off. Your level of stress will make it very difficult for any decision to seem like a good decision. Give yourself some time for that emergency feeling to fade a bit. Take as much time as you can to decompress then follow @Laura33 's great advise on your budget.

[sayonara]

2.  Play the game of "when will they fire me?"  Once you realize that you don't actually need this job, or any other full-time job in this industry ever again, the stress of losing the job goes away.  I mean, sure, the money is fantastic, but you don't need it; you probably also have a lot of pride and ego wrapped up into doing your job (people don't tend to work their way up to that kind of money without it), but that's something that's better addressed in therapy vs. sticking with a job that makes you miserable.  OTOH, it would sure be cool to continue to get an extra $65K every quarter, right?  So decide that you'll do the bare minimum at work and ignore all the internal politics and micromanagement and such.  You can even make a game of it -- take bets at home over how long it will take them to get rid of you (with the loser doing dishes for a week), go open a bottle of wine on the porch every time another $65K vests and have a mini-party with your DW, knowing that you're basically putting on over on everyone.  Watch "Office Space" at least quarterly as a reminder.  ;-) 

+1. This sounds like a great game.

[Shuchong]

The mere thought of even a single more day of work is giving me near panic attacks.

Go to the doctor! Get a full workup done. 

Not only can the doctor help with potential FMLA as others have suggested, but there might be a medical reason why you're in a fragile emotional state.  Worth it to at least get that checked out. 

[markbike528CBX]

Office Space (the movie) should be required, repeated watching for those OMY or golden handcuffs.  Good call Laura33!

Bob Porter: Looks like you've been missing a lot of work lately.
Peter Gibbons: I wouldn't say I've been *missing* it, Bob.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0151804/quotes/

    Michael Bolton: Peter, you're in deep shit. You were supposed to come in on Saturday. What were you doing?
    Peter Gibbons: Michael, I did nothing. I did absolutely nothing, and it was everything that I thought it could be.

[ysette9]

The mere thought of even a single more day of work is giving me near panic attacks.

Go to the doctor! Get a full workup done. 

Not only can the doctor help with potential FMLA as others have suggested, but there might be a medical reason why you're in a fragile emotional state.  Worth it to at least get that checked out.

This is a great suggestion. I have been chronically low in vitamin D and iron (ferritin) for years without knowing it. I'm working on addressing them now, and it is amazing how much more energy I have now with higher iron. My father has hypothyroidism and has much more energy to cope with life once he got that medicated. Multiple family members have sleep apnea and have seen improvements once they got on the CPAP machine.
etc. etc. etc.

But the advice that everyone has already given is wonderful, especially @Laura33 , as usual. I've had a job like that once where I'd sit in the parking lot in the morning and have to psych myself up to go inside and make it through one more day. It is a terrible place to be in, and you don't want to waste your precious time on this planet doing that shit.

If you can take a sabbatical or FMLA break, I'd recommend also reading Ask A Manager. There is a lot of good info there on toxic bosses and workplaces, and advice on how to either deal with it more effectively or get out. She has lots of resources on resumes, cover letters, and interviewing if you want to go down the path of finding something different. Or just take the time you need and see if something else comes up organically. We have been FIREd two years now and I am now doing a 3 day-a-week engineering gig that I quite like. My husband just took on a consulting project that someone reached out to him about. Both of our situations are excellent in terms of work/life balance and low stress. My point is that you have lots of options and I think you will be just fine once you can get out of the fight-or-flight panic mode your brain is currently in.

Wishing you the best. Keep us posted.

[farmecologist]

Looking at your post, what comes to mind to me is you don't seem to realize the immense amount of options and power that your stache gives you.  You are way past FU money at this point.  With $1.7 mil in investments and $12k/year in rental income, you are very close to being FI on $90k/year spending.  If you had to, I bet you could find enough fat to cut in that $90k to make it work.  Even setting aside your wife's income, you probably don't really need a job at this point.  You definitely don't need this particular job. 

Yes, your current job is very lucrative, but the biggest benefit it (plus some good spending and savings decisions on your part) has given you is that the money doesn't matter unless you decide that it matters.  You have the power to walk away if you want to.

You can use that power in a couple of ways.  Obviously, you can actually walk away.  However, you can also ask your employer for a 6-month unpaid sabbatical, a transfer for another team, a move to a non-technical role, secure in the knowledge that you have options if they say no. 

Also, you may find your current position is a lot less stressful if you can internalize that it doesn't really matter if you're director doesn't like you, that you don't have to worry about pleasing your micromanaging boss and can ignore his patronizing communication because you always have the option to walk.

This was my first thought, too. OP, I’d say that step one, no matter what you decide to do, is to realize that there is no reason at all for you to stress about anything at your job. Worry that your director doesn’t like you because he didn’t say happy birthday to you? Meh, doesn’t matter. Your micromanaging boss is irritating you with his tone? Meh, who cares, he isn’t that important.

Your job is not threatened right now. So no reason to stress about it. And even if it was, there wouldn’t be any reason to stress about it because there is nothing they could do to you that would really hurt you that much. Even firing you wouldn’t be that big a deal, really.

You’ve won the biggest part of the game: freedom from fear.

I can relate to the OP on many levels.  While I'm not in necessarily in a fragile emotional state, I have pretty much had it with my current job...and my lack of motivation at work is showing.  I have had a long career at a tech megacorp going on 32 years now and I need to be done soon, even though there is plenty of opportunity there still if I work my ass off, etc...like I used to do.  the burnout is real and I'm amazed I have survived this long. 

The "issue" is, we reached our FI goal a while back, and I have no fear whatsoever about my job anymore.   Freedom from fear is a real thing, and like I mentioned, it has resulted in a massive lack of motivation at work...and it actually feels great after all these years of massive job stress.  It isn't helping that the executives are pushing a "high performance culture" recently, apparently in an attempt to squeeze more productivity out of a smaller workforce.  The problem is...there is no culture whatsoever at my corporation, and there never has been.  The only "culture" has been bracing for yearly layoffs every...single...year for decades. 

The interesting thing is that I feel far healthier overall due to the lack of work stress, etc...  I'm currently coasting with this as long as I can...but I have no reservations in cutting ties whenever the company pisses me off enough.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one in this situation.  Nice discussion everyone!

[farmecologist]

2.  Play the game of "when will they fire me?"  Once you realize that you don't actually need this job, or any other full-time job in this industry ever again, the stress of losing the job goes away.  I mean, sure, the money is fantastic, but you don't need it; you probably also have a lot of pride and ego wrapped up into doing your job (people don't tend to work their way up to that kind of money without it), but that's something that's better addressed in therapy vs. sticking with a job that makes you miserable.  OTOH, it would sure be cool to continue to get an extra $65K every quarter, right?  So decide that you'll do the bare minimum at work and ignore all the internal politics and micromanagement and such.  You can even make a game of it -- take bets at home over how long it will take them to get rid of you (with the loser doing dishes for a week), go open a bottle of wine on the porch every time another $65K vests and have a mini-party with your DW, knowing that you're basically putting on over on everyone.  Watch "Office Space" at least quarterly as a reminder.  ;-) 

+1. This sounds like a great game.

This is exactly the game I'm playing now.  I call it "coasting to retirement".   The young'uns can play the political games and such...I'm done with all of that!

( also, see my previous reply above ).

[spartanswami]

@MSAEK, I was in a somewhat similar place a couple of years ago. Took the advice of wise mustachians here and tool a 6 month sabbatical. That provided enough space and separation from work for me to essentially "reset", allowed me to reevaluate my reason for working, my reason for being etc. At a much healthier place mentally and emotionally now.

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/feeling-stuckburned-out-need-some-mustachian-wisdom/msg3084579/#msg3084579 - See if that helps.

[MSAEK]

Thanks for all the great perspectives. It helped me reframe some things.

I spoke to my spouse and she's supportive if I have to take some time off.  We just had an emergency where I had to lend $50K to my in-laws, so I can't quit immediately as that ate into a big chunk of our emergency fund. I'll need to work a couple more months to collect my next quarterly equity vest + sign on bonus before I think about taking time off.

In the meantime, I've taken action by asking my manager for a transfer to an open position in another department. I didn't want to remain in the same org doing the same thing expecting different results. I don't know if it'll be any better at the new org, but it'll at least buy me some time.

[ChpBstrd]

All the above advice is excellent. This is a framing problem, where the boss's abrasiveness could be ignored if you could only possess the mentality that it doesn't matter. But that's easier said than done when you've had the level of care required to climb the career ladder this far.

The advice is great so I'll focus on the math and its consequences:

• $1.7M investments, not counting the college funds / 25 = $68k FIRE budget if you quit today
• $68k plus let's say $8k net rental income = $76k
• At this point, you're $14k per year away from covering your $90k/year spend rate. If you could just cut your spending by 16% you AND THE WIFE could never work another day of your lives, starting today. So how much of your spending is related to work, commuting, or childcare? Do you have the option to relocate to a cheaper place?
• OR... you could earn another (14k*25=) $350k through work and/or investments and retire with a 4% withdraw rate. With your savings rate and halfway decent investing returns this could potentially happen within 6-10 months. How much could that rent house sell for?
• How would it affect your framing and stress levels if you knew that by November or December you'd never see your boss or coworkers again? You could basically quiet quit and coast to FIRE if you wanted to, because the disciplinary process might take longer than is necessary to earn the remainder of your FIRE number!
• Beyond late 2024, any work you do is probably only buying a more luxurious lifestyle. How does that frame your level of concern about your coworkers' attitudes, or the tradeoffs of long hours away from your young kids? What does it mean to retire in one place / house versus a cheaper place / house? What is the value of putting up with workplace politics and demands if it comes down to the luxury trim versus basic trim in your SUV, or first class plane tickets versus coach?