Author Topic: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!  (Read 13453 times)

kkbmustang

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I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« on: September 22, 2012, 03:30:09 PM »
The Hubs and the kids just headed to the school carnival. ON THEIR BIKES.  I am having visions of emergency room visits or worse. He is under strict instructions to call me when they get there so I an quit having an aneurism.

arebelspy

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2012, 03:59:08 PM »
The bike ride will be fine.

It's those crazy carnie rides I'd worry about.

;)
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Tradies wife

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2012, 04:02:49 PM »
Ummmm.... settle down there. Why so scared? What kind of roads and traffic are you expecting them to face in reality? Do they have bike lanes down to the school? I'm sure your hubby will look after them.
Take care.

kkbmustang

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2012, 04:10:34 PM »
We live in the heart of Dallas and they go to a private school, so it's not like riding to a neighborhood elementary school. No bike lanes or paths. My little eagles have landed and I can breathe easier. This is their first bike ride longer than the length of our neighborhood street and they had to cross some major intersections along the way.

Thanks for the support.

kkbmustang

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2012, 10:06:32 PM »
So, they all made it home in one piece. The kids' (ages 7 and 9) response? "We wanna do that again!"

The Hubs said it was about 3 miles one way, 6 miles round trip. I've got some majorly exhausted kids, though. My son had one soccer game and one baseball game today and my daughter had one soccer game. Then they came home, took a little rest, then hit their bikes to head to the school carnival, then biked home. They left at 4:30 and got home around 7:30.

The Hubs is talking about riding his bike to the library tomorrow to drop off books and is already searching CL for a trailer thing to take to the grocery store.

Tradies wife

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2012, 10:51:12 PM »
Excellent idea riding to the library and grocery shopping. It is something that I've been doing :)

What kind of bike has your hubby got? Can he attach some panniers to it (you could make these if you are crafty)? Back basket? Front basket? Back pack?

Loads of ways to carry some gear, while you wait for a trailer :)

We went all out, after shopping with a backpack and a bike (no racks), and brought a box cargo bike.

kkbmustang

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2012, 11:09:22 PM »
I don't have the slightest idea what kind of bike it is. :) He got it on NashBike (or BikeNash???) and it looks like a mountain bike, not a ten speed. But, take this all with a grain of salt. I know nothing about bicycles other than the one Santa brought me when I was 10.

What's a pannier? He carried a small backpack today to go to the carnival (and bring back all of the kids' stuff from games they won - mostly small stuff like whistles, harmonicas and tootsie pops).

He said if he doesn't find one on CL, he'll buy one from the website above (whatever it is). It's a kiddie trailer that I think was $110. Not bad, but he'll have to wait until next month at the very least. We've spent quite a bit on biking gear this month. While a good investment that will save us money in the long run, it's still a cash outlay when we're trying to payoff a couple of CCs.

Tradies wife

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2012, 11:38:24 PM »
A pannier is a couple of bags that attach over the back rack of the bike. 

Check out this for some ideas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannier

Also, there was a link on here from a guy that had DIY panniers. This may actually be cheaper and easier to maneuver than a bike trailer. Great for your situation, where you want to maximize cash flow to pay off your credit cards before buying another bike accessory.

I've seen quite a few bikes that have just a milk create attached to the back (or two as panniers).

I'll try to find that DYI pannier thing for you & your family. 

Tradies wife

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2012, 11:46:43 PM »

Tradies wife

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2012, 02:05:54 AM »
This bag may set you back a couple of dollars, if that, and you may even have the stuff lying around your house. Added benefit of adding some really cool designer bag looks to your bike.....

http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Bicycle-Pannier-Saddle-Bag/

kkbmustang

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2012, 08:22:45 AM »
Thanks!!!

travelbug

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2012, 10:42:40 PM »
Excellent idea riding to the library and grocery shopping. It is something that I've been doing :)

What kind of bike has your hubby got? Can he attach some panniers to it (you could make these if you are crafty)? Back basket? Front basket? Back pack?

Loads of ways to carry some gear, while you wait for a trailer :)

We went all out, after shopping with a backpack and a bike (no racks), and brought a box cargo bike.

Cool
which one did you choose?

Tradies wife

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2012, 11:28:46 PM »
Travelbug, we brought a box cargo bike. You can see my son in it, with a balance bike in the little picture to the left of this writing.

Mark

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2012, 07:27:54 AM »
Riding a bike can actually be much safer than driving a car. If you're at all worried and/or new to riding for transportation, I would highly recommend Cycling Savvy (http://cyclingsavvy.org/). It's a 3-part course on how to ride safely with traffic. They offer it in your area too (http://cyclingsavvy.org/2012/07/fall-2012-workshops/). It's a little advanced for the kids, but they can tell you and your husband about how to ride safely with them.

I do a lot of bike advocacy in Orlando (one of the worst cities for biking) so I took the course so I could see how it is an give a fair recommendation to people. I considered myself an advanced rider but was shown that there was a lot of really useful stuff I didn't know. I ended up becoming an instructor for the course. Teaching it has been really fun and it's been really cool to see people's confidence in riding build up in just 2 days.

kkbmustang

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2012, 07:48:43 AM »
Thanks Mark. I will definitely pass this along. They rode again yesterday to the park and then to the fitness center where they plan on riding three times each week for their karate classes to find a bike rack. The successfully made it back.  The kids are loving it, but I would feel better knowing the Hubs had taken a bicycle safety course.

kkbmustang

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2012, 09:40:21 AM »
Mark- Just wanted to let you know the Hubs signed up for a class on 10/5-10/6. Thanks for the suggestion!

Mark

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2012, 09:55:56 AM »
Excellent! Happy to hear it. The first session is all in the classroom. You should try to go with him (or to another session if you have to watch the kiddies) so you know all about why he's riding the way he is. It's got a lot of animations and first person video examples showing proper riding. It also has some good statistics on types of crashes and how to avoid them as well. It might put your mind at ease if you're still concerned.  Please post, after his class and let me know if he liked it!

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2012, 11:37:47 AM »
Assuming that they ride in the street with traffic, stopping at stop signs and lights and obeying all other traffic laws, and use lights and bright clothing in low visibility, then bicycling is actually statistically safer than driving (at least driving at highway speeds).

The majority of bike-car collisions are (at least partially) because the cyclist was doing something stupid.
But you don't have to take my word for it: I quoted some statistics and sources here: http://biodieselhauling.blogspot.com/2012/06/please-ride-your-bike-in-street.html

Traveling at 65(+) MPH is just inherently dangerous. 
You should freak out any time your loved ones are getting on a freeway. 
Average number of children killed in auto accidents annually: 2000
Average number of children moderately to severely injured in auto accidents: 250,000

offroad

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2012, 08:14:52 AM »
Assuming that they ride in the street with traffic, stopping at stop signs and lights and obeying all other traffic laws, and use lights and bright clothing in low visibility, then bicycling is actually statistically safer than driving (at least driving at highway speeds).

The majority of bike-car collisions are (at least partially) because the cyclist was doing something stupid.
But you don't have to take my word for it: I quoted some statistics and sources here: http://biodieselhauling.blogspot.com/2012/06/please-ride-your-bike-in-street.html

Traveling at 65(+) MPH is just inherently dangerous. 
You should freak out any time your loved ones are getting on a freeway. 
Average number of children killed in auto accidents annually: 2000
Average number of children moderately to severely injured in auto accidents: 250,000

have to call bad statistics on this one.

1)  What is the average number of car riding events
2)  What is the average number of bicycle riding events.

divide the count of accident in car  -- by count of car riding events to get a percentage
divide the count of accidents by bicycle -- by count of bicycle riding events to get a percentage

good math is most important for proper comparisons of situations.
 

Gerard

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2012, 08:28:05 AM »
In addition to the mustache pages on this topic, I found an interesting (long!) and fairly reassuring discussion of the relative danger of cycling here:
http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/health/risks.htm

For me, the most reassuring part was the comparison of accident rates among different subgroups of cyclists, which  suggests that we riders have a lot of control over our safety. There's also an interesting discussion of the problems with a change in message from "behave like a vehicle and follow the rules of the road" to "wear a helmet and you'll be fine".

Still, wear a helmet!


Mark

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2012, 09:04:43 AM »

have to call bad statistics on this one.

1)  What is the average number of car riding events
2)  What is the average number of bicycle riding events.

divide the count of accident in car  -- by count of car riding events to get a percentage
divide the count of accidents by bicycle -- by count of bicycle riding events to get a percentage

good math is most important for proper comparisons of situations.

I definitely agree that statistics from good data would be a much better argument for the safety of cycling. Unfortunately, making the direct comparison to automobile travel is very difficult for several reasons.

While the number of cars on the road, their miles traveled, and number of crashes is pretty well documented, this is not the case for bikes. Cars can be counted going through a section of road by placing a rope across the lanes. Bicycles usually require an actual person doing the counts. Even minor car crashes get reported for insurance reasons. Bicycle accidents are very under-reported, especially if no injury occurred. The most reliable comparison (I think) is the number of fatalities, since those are pretty much always documented. As I pointed out though, to then divide by the number of miles traveled or the number of hours spent in travel is difficult and the statistics depend largely on surveys of people's cycling use. There's other problems of how to make the comparison, whether miles traveled or time spent traveling is more appropriate but I don't know enough about that topic to speak on it.

Even with the difficulties, I've seen many studies and don't remember any that reported that cycling was more dangerous than driving. Gerard linked to a good review of lots of studies so I'll link to one done in Orlando (http://www.metroplanorlando.com/files/view/bicyclist-crash-study.pdf). The study was done in 2003-2004. It's really long but there's one part in the introduction that really stuck with me and that is this point:

Cycling properly can reduce your risk of a fatal crash to lower than that a child riding in a school bus!

The data for it is on page 8. The table shows fatalities per million people for different modes of travel with school bus travel at 0.22/mil and bicycling at 0.26/mil. Bicycling is higher, but it accounts for all fatalities, including those of people biking intoxicated, without lights at night, and disobeying the rules of the road. The study goes on to look at the types of crashes and reasons for them and shows that your risk of a crash can be reduced by more than 90% by riding safely (This does not mean riding on the sidewalk all the time!). You could definitely say I'm extrapolating a bit but it's close enough for me.

Bakari

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2012, 10:43:42 AM »

have to call bad statistics on this one.

1)  What is the average number of car riding events
2)  What is the average number of bicycle riding events.

divide the count of accident in car  -- by count of car riding events to get a percentage
divide the count of accidents by bicycle -- by count of bicycle riding events to get a percentage

good math is most important for proper comparisons of situations.

I definitely agree that statistics from good data would be a much better argument for the safety of cycling. Unfortunately, making the direct comparison to automobile travel is very difficult for several reasons.


Cycling properly can reduce your risk of a fatal crash to lower than that a child riding in a school bus!

The data for it is on page 8. The table shows fatalities per million people for different modes of travel with school bus travel at 0.22/mil and bicycling at 0.26/mil. Bicycling is higher, but it accounts for all fatalities, including those of people biking intoxicated, without lights at night, and disobeying the rules of the road. The study goes on to look at the types of crashes and reasons for them and shows that your risk of a crash can be reduced by more than 90% by riding safely (This does not mean riding on the sidewalk all the time!). You could definitely say I'm extrapolating a bit but it's close enough for me.

Exactly.  Which I mentioned in my original post:
Assuming that they ride in the street with traffic, stopping at stop signs and lights and obeying all other traffic laws, and use lights and bright clothing in low visibility, then bicycling is actually statistically safer than driving (at least driving at highway speeds).

The majority of bike-car collisions are (at least partially) because the cyclist was doing something stupid.
But you don't have to take my word for it: I quoted some statistics and sources here: http://biodieselhauling.blogspot.com/2012/06/please-ride-your-bike-in-street.html

You can't just compare miles traveled or hours of activity.  You have to compare apples to apples, and that includes driver/rider behavior.

Obviously if you regularly run red lights or drive down the wrong side of the street in your car, you will have a much much higher the average rate of accidents, and your chances of dying in a car jump dramatically.  You don't need any statistics to be confident of that.  Almost no one does these things in a car. Yet people do these things on bikes ALL THE TIME.  Even people who are safety conscious (but not knowledgeable) regularly ride bikes on the sidewalk, increasing their risk of injury or death.

So, in order to figure out the risk to YOU specifically, as someone who knows to follow the law, you have to correct for the percentage of accidents caused in full or in part by the cyclist.
If our risk of a crash is reduced by 90% by your choices as a rider, than your statistical risk is only 10% of the overall risk for bike crashes.


The reason I posted the numbers for car crashes is not to say "look how dangerous this is comparatively" (thats specifically why I avoided posting the numbers for bikes - that would have been misleading in the way you are suggesting) - it was to point out that it is really dangerous, and we all take it for granted. Car accidents are the number 1 cause of death of American's under 40.  Is that partially due to how much we do it?  Well sure it is!  Which is a damn good reason to do less of it.

newb

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2012, 11:27:16 AM »
I read the title and came here thinking it was going to be a good thread, then I read the OP's topic. Settle down already and relax, worrying about what could be does nothing for your blood pressure or reality.

kkbmustang

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2012, 03:10:55 PM »
True that. It was their first excursion out and I was a worried mama bear. So sue me. I'm over it now, they have had several other rides about and are fine. As am I.

Tradies wife

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2012, 03:18:13 PM »
I'm glad to hear that it has been working out brilliantly for your family, and you are more relaxed about the whole thing now. :)
Wishing you and your family well.

kkbmustang

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2012, 04:40:32 PM »
Thanks Tradies Wife! Yes, the kids and the Hubs are embracing the bikes. The kids keep asking to bike places. :)

Mark

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2012, 08:13:03 AM »
How did he like the course?

kkbmustang

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2012, 09:36:22 AM »
He ended up not taking it because it was $75.

offroad

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2012, 03:28:09 AM »
He ended up not taking it because it was $75.

So the course was a money making venture, not a community altruistic event. Funny how that happens.

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2012, 05:44:51 AM »
He ended up not taking it because it was $75.

So the course was a money making venture, not a community altruistic event. Funny how that happens.

It doesn't sound like "money making" so much as deciding they didn't have that extra right now to spend. Offroad's comment seems out of order.

TomTX

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2012, 07:04:07 AM »
He ended up not taking it because it was $75.

So the course was a money making venture, not a community altruistic event. Funny how that happens.

It doesn't sound like "money making" so much as deciding they didn't have that extra right now to spend. Offroad's comment seems out of order.

It sounded to me like the "money making" comment was aimed at the instructor/organization, not at the poster.

Back-of-the-envelope calculation here:

$75 course x 15 students = $1175.

It's basically a 9-hour course. Throw in a few hours for prep and cleanup. $200 to rent out a classroom at a community center/library. Instructor/organization is still making better than $80/hr.

If the instruction were being offered as a "community altruistic event" - the cost should be more like $25. Enough to cover expenses and give the instructor gas money.

arebelspy

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2012, 07:25:53 AM »
Did you calculate how long it'd take to save that $75 by biking more (the increased confidence from the course allowing you to use it more often)?
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kkbmustang

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2012, 10:22:56 AM »
The Hubs decided he's ok. They've been biking to karate and he just returned from a bike ride to the grocery store. :)

Mark

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #33 on: October 14, 2012, 03:24:44 PM »
Having the confidence to ride is what's important and you can definitely educate yourself online for free. There are tons of great sites for how to ride safely. The course is especially good for beginners as it takes you from knowing next to nothing to being able to ride most anywhere and know what to look out for in 2 days.

As for the money making comments, your calculations are a bit off. Each course can only take 10 students at a time because it's difficult for the instructors to safely handle groups larger than that since we're talking about mostly novice riders. Also, there's 2 instructors for 9 hours and I can guarantee you that there's quite a bit more than an hour or two preparation and cleanup.  The organization has to pay for insurance, location reservations and yes, advertising and growth so that we can reach more people. I'll let you redo the math if you want but I can guarantee you that the instructors' primary reason for being there is because we care about the message and want people to be safe.


kkbmustang

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2012, 09:13:16 PM »
The Hubs decided he didn't want to spend the $75, but he feels confident riding. I'm the nervous nelly. The kids are LOVING biking, too. Plus, the Hubs' middle is getting decidedly less round. He's feeling pretty darn good.  I'm proud of him and the kids.

Now, for me, when my back is in a condition where I can ride, I will invest the $75 for the course. I haven't been on a bike since I was 11. But, I've got all sorts of new metal and screws in my spine, so riding a bicycle is a looong way off for me. Hell, I can't even sit in a chair for more than an hour without wanting to crawl into a hole and die, so, there you go.

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Re: I am FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!!!
« Reply #35 on: October 15, 2012, 03:39:23 PM »
Mark, thanks for pointing out correct data on number of instructors and students - you're right, with 5 students per instructor, we're not in money-making territory.