Fire vs. Home Life Balance - What would you do here?

[LovinPSDs]

So here the deal, I currently in discussion with a company to go back into the oil field and I'm having a very difficult time weighing the ability to FIRE much faster vs. having time with my wife and kids (now 1.5 & almost 4).   The short version of my situation is below...

Currently work 4-10s in a heavy fab shop as an engineer, early in early out, so I'm home by 4:30 every day.
$53/hr, medical, 6% 401K match, all that happy stuff...
Due to a salary cap I can't work any more than 20 hrs OT per month (paid straight time)

The field job - 6 days a week 12-13hr days, We (the whole family) would likely live in a camper and move as needed
$54/Hr, 18$/hr truck pay, $8 per Hr worked into 401K(not from my check), Per diem of $135/day, pension plan but doesn't pay out until 65 (I'm 33).

If I'm doing a bit of math right, it's about 2x the work for 3.5x the pay.

My big issue is not really getting to see my girls at all... I'm not scared of work, but getting home around 6 (ish) every night really doesn't leave time for anything with my kids.

What do ya'll think?? A SOLID run at this field job could spring board us to FIRE VERY quickly, I am just fearful I'll look back and regret missing the time with my kids.  How do ya'll manage this? I think my biggest hangup is the OT/Salary Cap at my current job... For some reason that really bothers me.

[use2betrix]

I work in the same industry and have for nearly a decade. I’m 30, wife 24, no kids. We spent about 5 of those years in a camper which we recently sold as I’m on a longer term job now.

Would you go back as like a welder? I’ve never seen anyone aside from welders getting a truck pay like that and I’ve been doing this a long time.

Also - is it union?

How old are your girls?

Would you be moving a lot in those 1.5 years or why couldn’t you rent at that location if you aren’t moving a lot?

What type of oil field work, pipeline?

Is the hourly rate 1.5x? What about the truck pay, or money into your 401k?


All that aside, I look at 60 hrs a week as nothing. 7/12’s is a lot. In the last decade I’d say I’ve worked 60+ hrs a week for 8+ of those years. Right now I’ve got my first 45ish hour job and it feels part time. I understand that if you’ve been working your schedule for a long time, it’s easy to get used to. 

What my personal plan is, once I get closer to FIRE, I’ll move back to working 7/12’s (shut downs, for a few months a year and then take the rest of the year off.

[fuzzy math]

How many years til FIRE in each scenario?

It would have to be significant IMO to consider moving into a trailer w small kids if your wife is going to be alone w them much of the time. At the same time, this is the one easy time in your life where you could do it before they enter school and need to be in the same place for school. The kids realistically won't remember this time either. If it allows you to be FIREd during their elementary years it might be worth it.

What is the climate like? How far would you be moving around at a time? Are you going to lose local family support? They'd need to be outside a lot, 1.5 yr olds get really bored and cranky. They also need to nap and 4 yr olds are bad at being quiet during nap time.

What does your wife think? You sound like you have reservations. Do you actually WANT to work that much? Is she the type who would be ok with you gone that much? If you're both iffy, it's a large commitment to have a pension vest and you end up hating it.

[beer-man]

At $53hr who needs overtime? Enjoy the time with your kids especially if you think you may regret it someday


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[LovinPSDs]

I work in the same industry and have for nearly a decade. I’m 30, wife 24, no kids. We spent about 5 of those years in a camper which we recently sold as I’m on a longer term job now.

Would you go back as like a welder? I’ve never seen anyone aside from welders getting a truck pay like that and I’ve been doing this a long time.

Also - is it union?

How old are your girls?

Would you be moving a lot in those 1.5 years or why couldn’t you rent at that location if you aren’t moving a lot?

What type of oil field work, pipeline?

Is the hourly rate 1.5x? What about the truck pay, or money into your 401k?


All that aside, I look at 60 hrs a week as nothing. 7/12’s is a lot. In the last decade I’d say I’ve worked 60+ hrs a week for 8+ of those years. Right now I’ve got my first 45ish hour job and it feels part time. I understand that if you’ve been working your schedule for a long time, it’s easy to get used to. 

What my personal plan is, once I get closer to FIRE, I’ll move back to working 7/12’s (shut downs, for a few months a year and then take the rest of the year off.

The position would be for a Tech, but do to agreements the hiring company has with 798 Union the pay funnels through them.  I have friends from previous jobs that are working the same position that I can ask any and all questions.  I was apprehensive of going through the union but speaking with a buddy he said for the most part "the grass is greener".  They don't really have to mess with the normal union stuff, just the payroll is funneled through the union.

Work is pipeline (mainline) so we'd be on the move a bunch, OT is 1.5x, truck pay is flat rate/hr worked, 401K is flat rate/hr the rig pay thing apparently works for technicians even though your not welding. 

Comes about to about $6,750 a week + $575 a week into the 401K. (assuming 6-12s)

I know the feeling, I averaged 79hr weeks for quite a while and now work 4-10s, its quite a change.

Finally - my girls are 1.5 and almost 4.  Prime to for having a blast with them... I'm really struggling with a decision.  I feel a bit stuck in my current role which is motivating me. I'm actually trying to find a happy middle ground (5-10s maybe???) but per my experience for the last 10 years in oil, it's all or nothin.

[LovinPSDs]

How many years til FIRE in each scenario?

It would have to be significant IMO to consider moving into a trailer w small kids if your wife is going to be alone w them much of the time. At the same time, this is the one easy time in your life where you could do it before they enter school and need to be in the same place for school. The kids realistically won't remember this time either. If it allows you to be FIREd during their elementary years it might be worth it.

What is the climate like? How far would you be moving around at a time? Are you going to lose local family support? They'd need to be outside a lot, 1.5 yr olds get really bored and cranky. They also need to nap and 4 yr olds are bad at being quiet during nap time.

What does your wife think? You sound like you have reservations. Do you actually WANT to work that much? Is she the type who would be ok with you gone that much? If you're both iffy, it's a large commitment to have a pension vest and you end up hating it.

I'd be lying if I said I had the numbers all figured out for current FIRE.  I do know that we would likely be decreasing expenses slightly but increasing income about 3x so it moves the needle DRASTICALLY compared to current situation. Based on what we currently have a 5-7 year run and we could be right in the wheel house of FIRE (~2 million net worth)

 Wife is so so.. mostly because of the hours.  She/We could do the camper pretty easily I think, it's just tough with 2 kiddos in a camper and me never home. The combination of all those is the hard part.

We would be moving often as it's pipeline work and we can cover a few miles a day depending on terrain and climate isn't set, could be anywhere really.

For more financials...
401K is always vested, Health care is covered if you work over a certain # of hours, which would be easy on that schedule, and the pension builds depending on hours but isn't available for another 30 years so not putting much stock in that.

The ALL or NOTHING part of this is really difficult to navigate.

[LovinPSDs]

At $53hr who needs overtime? Enjoy the time with your kids especially if you think you may regret it someday


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I often agree but can't ignore the opportunity knocking on the door.  It's a game changer if we went all in.... Can be a very rough life though.

Also if it matters, we are currently planning on Home schooling regardless of location.  My daughter has a severe food allergy so school is out for now... This is another wrinkle and maybe the most important one that I have to weigh independent of the financials.

[Mrs.Piano]

Is there also a car for your wife to get out to public libraries, churches/mosques, grocery store, etc? I I was Mrs. PSDs this would make a great deal of difference to my thinking. Also, do you have to buy a camper or do you have one already?

[LovinPSDs]

Is there also a car for your wife to get out to public libraries, churches/mosques, grocery store, etc? I I was Mrs. PSDs this would make a great deal of difference to my thinking. Also, do you have to buy a camper or do you have one already?

We'd for sure bring her car, maybe even a small cargo trailer as going from a home to camper is a hard adjustment.  Giving more flexibility in toys, bikes, home school etc etc with the kids.  We have a separate issue that my daughter has a contact reactive food allergy so going out is difficult.  I'm praying every day she atleast grows out of the contact portion.  That would be a game changer in our situation.

As for a camper/Truck... we have both, but it's probably not one I'd full time in.  We could get off the ground with it for sure, especially if we brought a small cargo trailer would would put us basically nothing invested into the idea of doing this outside of leaving my current job.

Basically - All financial signs point to this being really great, all family signs point to it being a struggle.

[CindyBS]

As an adult woman who has a wonderful relationship with my dad, here's something else to think about.  While your girls are in a highly influential time in their lives, they most likely will have zero memories of you being gone so much.  Does doing this job "buy" you a lot of time with them in the future?

My father did not work in the summers and my mom did.  My memories of my dad are things like him coaching my softball team, him taking me places, him making me lunch in summers and weekends, him taking me to baseball games - all those memories are from ages 7+. 

Is this going to "buy" time with your daughters at the times they will remember and during the most difficult times of their lives - puberty, dating boys, etc.?   Don't underestimate how fantastic it is to have a Dad who is there in the morning when you are going to middle school, puberty has your hormones all out of whack, you feel insecure and awkward and your dad says something like "you look beautiful". 

Another point - is your wife going to work?  Is there going to be some sort of arrangement where she will handle everything else so 100% of your time off is with the girls?  IMO, that makes a huge difference. 

[Freedomin5]

We are currently in a situation where DH works crazy hours and sometimes even sleeps in company-provided housing, so we sometimes go for days not seeing him. Great pay though!

I’ve found that DD misses him, but is generally okay with not seeing him everyday. DD is four years old, and we’ve had this arrangement since she was three. As long as your kids have one stable parent figure, they should be fine.

Also, you don’t have to do this job until you FIRE. Would you be able to just do this job until you feel yourself burning out? In the meantime, turbo charge your savings. That’s our mentality. We live frugally and see this period as time to dump as much as possible into investments from this firehose of cash, but if the firehose starts breaking and DH starts burning out, we will move back to more “normal” work hours and living conditions.

[LovinPSDs]

Does doing this job "buy" you a lot of time with them in the future?

Is this going to "buy" time with your daughters at the times they will remember and during the most difficult times of their lives - puberty, dating boys, etc.?   Don't underestimate how fantastic it is to have a Dad who is there in the morning when you are going to middle school, puberty has your hormones all out of whack, you feel insecure and awkward and your dad says something like "you look beautiful". 

Another point - is your wife going to work?  Is there going to be some sort of arrangement where she will handle everything else so 100% of your time off is with the girls?  IMO, that makes a huge difference.

Very interesting point... I appreciate the insight.  As for my wife, she stays home now with the Kiddos, so that wouldn't change unless something fruitful and do-able come along, but doubtful.

I could see how a very solid run for a few years could set the stage for more time at home during their older years.  However @use2betrix knows the ole' oil field moto... "Just one more job and I'm outa here... One more job".  Going into this with a mustanchian approach could be life altering.  Most start off with 100K in depreciating assets just to get started.

[Jon Bon]

I say do it for six month or not at all. If you can sign up for a defined amount of time for < 1 year its a possibility.  Your kids are only young once and it sound like you guys are doing just fine currently.

If it's something like a 3 year commitment, no way! Plus this is the type of job that often leads to divorce? Long hours, hard work, etc really puts the stress on the family. And that would really hurt your fire plans, not to mention your family.

Maybe share a little bit about where you are in your fire plans?

[LovinPSDs]

She/We could do the camper pretty easily I think, it's just tough with 2 kiddos in a camper and me never home. The combination of all those is the hard part.

Understatement of the year.

Calling @CanuckExpat , who has been travelling with two small kids in an RV for some time now WITHOUT a heavy job on top of it.  My sense is they have found it quite stressful.

What do you do if your rig breaks down in the middle of nowhere?  Your wife is supposed to handle that on her own while wrangling two small kids?

I'm sure it's more stressful, especially if you string a handful of rainy days together.  I'm not sure I follow you on the breakdown part of it though.  I plan on coming home every night nad i don't think she'd ever be driving the truck/camper combo without me.

[LovinPSDs]

I hear what your saying now... Well in true pipeliner fashion drag it to the dealer and buy a new one haha.

Just kidding... although many do.  Indeed there would be challenges. Having a reliable truck would be one of the important parts of making this a successful venture.  One benefit is your often roaming around the country with a much larger group all working together so hitching rides in an emergency wouldn't be the end of the world. 

[waltworks]

I personally wouldn't do it unless I could bail without any consequences (ie, go back to old job or similar) at ANY time. There's a chance it's fine, you guys can handle life being kinda crappy for a year or two, and then you can take your earnings and decelerate/cut hours way back with a nice jump toward FIRE.

But I'd want an escape clause because if it's not going well, it's going to be a spectacular shitshow for your marriage and your family. If it's a year+ commitment... no way. FIRE is great but it's not worth killing yourself/ruining your life for.

You are also going to need to look at school for the 4 year old (unless you are going to homeschool) in another year or two at most, so that's something to consider.

-W

[beer-man]

At $53hr who needs overtime? Enjoy the time with your kids especially if you think you may regret it someday


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I often agree but can't ignore the opportunity knocking on the door.  It's a game changer if we went all in.... Can be a very rough life though.

Also if it matters, we are currently planning on Home schooling regardless of location.  My daughter has a severe food allergy so school is out for now... This is another wrinkle and maybe the most important one that I have to weigh independent of the financials.

Honestly man it sounds like a win win either way. If you go on the road with the high paying job is it indefinite? Can you come back if you change your mind or it’s too much for the wife/kids.
 I can see how the decision is hard. Often my desire/choice to work OT takes away from time with my wife/kids but also rapidly advances my FI date. I just finished a 70hr work week and have a 66hr week ahead of me. It’s hard but I still try to spend 2-3hrs a day with the family....which means I just allow myself less sleep. I’ve become accustomed to 5hrs of sleep for long work stretches, sometimes less for a few days at a time. I try not to spend less time with the kids, just less sleep


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[elliha]

As a mother I would be open to my husband going away to work for a while but no way in hell I would stay in a camper with two kids. I would not think this was a good idea especially with a heavily allergic kid who you cannot even take everywhere. When you live in one place you can at least research which places are likely to be safe for her but not if you move constantly. No, this is a job for someone with older kids or no kids if the family is going to tag along as I see it.

[Villanelle]

How difficult would it be to find a job comparable to your current one?  If you feel confident that you could do that fairly easily, I think I'd give this a try.  Putting in a year or two at this job would make such a huge difference in your financial lives, and then you could go back to something like your old job if this was too wearing on you.  I think I'd try to come to an agreement with my spouse that we were in it for at least 12 months.  Then, if either of you had had enough, you start looking for something like your old job.

Perhaps you can add an extra $100ish to the budget for some items that get you out of the house (camper) periodically. 

[use2betrix]

Do you currently own a home or have a lease ending? If you own a place that will stay vacant, you’ll have to factor in the costs of paying for RV parks, utilities, etc of the second place.

Also be ready to spend when stuff breaks on the camper. As you already own one you already know, they need a lot of routine maintenance and a lot of repair. Good tires are a must, repacked bearings. We had 3-4 AC’s get replaced over a 5.5 year stretch (about $1k each). Leaky roofs, leaking toilets, more broken stuff, etc.

How big is your trailer as well? Big difference between a 40’ and 20’.

I know many people in our industry that do the trailer thing with a kid or two, lots depends on the trailer, and the family. As you can see in this thread, many Americans are far too conditioned to living in large spaces. Probably why the average house size today is over 2500 sq ft and in the 50’s it was about 980, while the 50’s also had larger family sizes.

[FLBiker]

Personally, at this point in my life, spending time with my family outweighs making as much money as possible.  I accept promotions, but only if they don't require significantly more hours / significantly more travel.  My daughter is 3.5.

What does your wife want to do?

[bognish]

Home Life. You have a good gig going now.  I have kids 7 & 10. When they were little they would want to play with me as long as they were awake. Each year that amount of time goes down as they do activities or prefer to play with friends or do their own thing. Put the travel job and high hours on hold a few years if you can afford it. It also helps my kids to have a home base and stable activity groups (sports, dance, etc). In a few years when the kids have lots of independence and only want to see me to lend them car keys I can ramp up work hours or travel if I need to.

[bugbaby]

Will there be vacation time? I think for me having say 4 weeks a year off would make it ok.

I think if wife were ok, and it brings your FIRE date from 5-7 to 2-3 yrs away, it's worth it. Your kids ages are so young I doubt there's any real negative impact. It's more your wife's comfort level I'd be concerned about.

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[LovinPSDs]

At $53hr who needs overtime? Enjoy the time with your kids especially if you think you may regret it someday


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I often agree but can't ignore the opportunity knocking on the door.  It's a game changer if we went all in.... Can be a very rough life though.

Also if it matters, we are currently planning on Home schooling regardless of location.  My daughter has a severe food allergy so school is out for now... This is another wrinkle and maybe the most important one that I have to weigh independent of the financials.

Honestly man it sounds like a win win either way. If you go on the road with the high paying job is it indefinite? Can you come back if you change your mind or it’s too much for the wife/kids.
 I can see how the decision is hard. Often my desire/choice to work OT takes away from time with my wife/kids but also rapidly advances my FI date. I just finished a 70hr work week and have a 66hr week ahead of me. It’s hard but I still try to spend 2-3hrs a day with the family....which means I just allow myself less sleep. I’ve become accustomed to 5hrs of sleep for long work stretches, sometimes less for a few days at a time. I try not to spend less time with the kids, just less sleep


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I very much understand this side of it... I currently get up at 4am, work 10.5hrs (long commute), play with the kids best I can, and try to stick it out with my wife until she's ready for bed so we have time together, all to gather around 5 hrs of sleep each night. 

As for the job, it's certainly not indefinite, but as long as the oil field is making a strong run the money will be there for the taking. It also getting me linked back into that network that i've always loved.. the same one I left to watch my kids grow up...... Round and round we go.  I will say this type of opportunity hasn't come up prior though. 

[LovinPSDs]

How difficult would it be to find a job comparable to your current one?  If you feel confident that you could do that fairly easily, I think I'd give this a try.  Putting in a year or two at this job would make such a huge difference in your financial lives, and then you could go back to something like your old job if this was too wearing on you.  I think I'd try to come to an agreement with my spouse that we were in it for at least 12 months.  Then, if either of you had had enough, you start looking for something like your old job.

Perhaps you can add an extra $100ish to the budget for some items that get you out of the house (camper) periodically.

The kicker with my current job is it has an AWESOME schedule considering i'm in the rat race (rotating 4-10s means 4 days in a row off every other weekend!), it pays very well for the area, and it's close( 3.5-4hrs) to most our family.  It would be very difficult to get ALL of those things again I think but could certainly get in the wheel house.  We don't love where we live right now either.. it's cheap and safe but pretty boring.

[LovinPSDs]

Do you currently own a home or have a lease ending? If you own a place that will stay vacant, you’ll have to factor in the costs of paying for RV parks, utilities, etc of the second place.

Also be ready to spend when stuff breaks on the camper. As you already own one you already know, they need a lot of routine maintenance and a lot of repair. Good tires are a must, repacked bearings. We had 3-4 AC’s get replaced over a 5.5 year stretch (about $1k each). Leaky roofs, leaking toilets, more broken stuff, etc.

How big is your trailer as well? Big difference between a 40’ and 20’.

I know many people in our industry that do the trailer thing with a kid or two, lots depends on the trailer, and the family. As you can see in this thread, many Americans are far too conditioned to living in large spaces. Probably why the average house size today is over 2500 sq ft and in the 50’s it was about 980, while the 50’s also had larger family sizes.

Have a house here... Our trail is big enough, but not what we would want if we're going full time.  Could get off the ground for sure and decide if it's a life we want to take on without investing too much into the lifestyle.  My actual concern is overloading the dang thing.  Its carrying capacity isn't all that great and if your cramming for full time I'm worried.  We are just weekend warriors at the moment. 30' 5er with a bunkhouse.  Living space is less than desirable.

I've got a call with the hiring company (an old friend of mine) tomorrow.  I'm going to get a better bead on what they are looking for.  Sounds more like it's a shop/field split which means maybe our trailer would work if it's less time in the field. I'll know (and update) a more in the next few days hopefully.

[LovinPSDs]

Will there be vacation time? I think for me having say 4 weeks a year off would make it ok.

I think if wife were ok, and it brings your FIRE date from 5-7 to 2-3 yrs away, it's worth it. Your kids ages are so young I doubt there's any real negative impact. It's more your wife's comfort level I'd be concerned about.

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One of the benefits of field work is you could go say 3 months straight but if you choose (and the industry dictates) you could take 2-3 weeks off if you want. Just gotta be leary that if they want you on another job sometimes you don't get to pick when you start.