Author Topic: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.  (Read 16829 times)

spartana

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Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« on: August 04, 2015, 12:54:31 PM »
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« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 10:41:01 AM by spartana »

waffle

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2015, 12:59:07 PM »
If you are just using the car for long road trips I wouldn't bother with a hybrid. A prius at highway speeds is really just a more expensive corolla. The advantage of hybrids is with around town driving where they can use electric power to do all the starts and stops.

lbmustache

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2015, 01:26:51 PM »
The only hybrid I would buy is a Toyota hybrid. They seem to be the "best" out there. Repairs are few and far in-between, things like spark plugs and brakes have a longer service interval due to the hybrid drivetrain. There are Priuses that go on for 150k+ on the original battery. I think a new battery is like $4k at the dealer, but you can find one on the cheap (from a totaled car etc.) and have a mechanic familiar with hybrids install it. There's a lot of articles floating around so I recommend looking them up. Toyota's hybrid system hasn't changed a whole lot and there's no difference mechanically between the current Prius style vs the previous gen (not talking about the 1st sedan version).

Gas prices are set to drop soon so hybrids will fall in price if you can wait it out, making the cost of owning a hybrid a lot lower. Toyota is also releasing a new Prius in the fall so the current gen is heavily discounted. I don't know how long CA is offering this incentive for.

On the other hand, if gas prices are dropping it might now make sense to dump the trunk if it's only used a few times for long trips.

KittyCat

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2015, 01:38:06 PM »
I know you mentioned that you had a set selection of dealers available to you, but perhaps one of them is on this list. It seems that they are rolling out a new interface so the page displays differently between IE and Chrome. You should see a red 2010 Prius at the top, if not, click on "year" and limit it to the desire selection.

RunHappy

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2015, 03:56:25 PM »
My ford focus gets better gas mileage than my friend's nissan altima hybrid. 

If you do a lot of city (stop and start, lower speed) driving then I would go with a cheaper Prius.  If you are not doing a lot of city driving then a hybrid being "worth it" is a toss up.  It really comes down to how you drive and where you drive.  I would absolutely stay away from any hybrid SUV.

KittyCat

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2015, 04:04:18 PM »
Looks like the only local dealers I can use are the various Car Maxes (and some dealers in LA). They seem much more expensive then the cars in the link you provided though. But with the $7K discount many are probably doable. Saw a Ford C-Max hybrid (2013, 28K miles, $17K) that I'm going to check out now but will also check out some of the Toyotas too because, like Ibemustache pointed out many people seem to think they are better than most other hybrids.
Yeah, if CarMax is your main selection, then my link wont help at all, except for possible price comparison. I know that you're more than capable of searching by yourself, I was curious about your selection and decided to make links anyway. Link 1 Link 2 (at least, I think it's accurate)

With my usage (nearly all commute to work and back) and driving habits, the average MPG for my Civic for my current fillup is currently 41.8 MPG and 37.1 MPG overall.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 04:14:10 PM by KittyCat »

music lover

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2015, 04:15:32 PM »
the gas car incentives aren't high enough for me to make me want to dump the still great running truck with only 105K miles on it (I really only use it for long road trips and bike around town mostly).

You answered your own question.

Zamboni

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2015, 05:39:59 PM »
Seems weird that the incentive is so limited in terms of which dealerships you can use.

In your shoes I would just keep the little truck. The mileage on it is not that high and haven't you mentioned before that sometimes you camp in the back? Maybe I am mis-remembering that. What kind of mileage does the truck get? If the mileage is really terrible, then I can see replacing it, but I wouldn't want to spend $10K on the replacement. I'd probably try to find something for more like $5K as a replacement.

FWIW, I have a Gen1 Prius with 215K miles on it. Still runs like a top and it's on the original big hybrid battery. The only annoying repair so far is that it was fairly expensive to replace the small starting battery lately (around $400) because Toyota decided it was "undersized" and they needed to redesign the entire battery compartment. Other than that repairs have been pretty minimal. It's great for my commute through town but the seat is not super comfortable for long trips.

KittyCat

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2015, 06:01:46 PM »
Thanks for the links - definitely helps compare costs between different dealers and models. Seems the cheapest cost hybrid at any of the local Car Maxes is about $16K (and that C-Max was in your list too at $17K) but when compared with other places that is way over priced. Same with the Priuses. Not knowing anything about hybrids at all it's kind of hard to compare - but I'm learning! The other posters are right that I rarely drive around town for the most part except at night or further distances where I can't bike, so have to weight the costs of dropping an extra $10K or more for a hybrid (even with the $7K in incentives for a hybrid) compared to just keeping the truck until it dies. Or going the 2 car route (electric Leaf plus compact gas car). I'm hoping a somewhat inexpensive hybrid will come up before my voucher runs out (couple of weeks) and to learn more about Hybrids meanwhile.

ETA: Just saw a 2012 Hyundai Sonata hybrid pop up on the link you sent me for $15,500 (only $8500 for me if I scrap my truck). 56K miles and mpg around 40ish on average. Anyone know anything about those? Guess I'll have to check that Car Max site more often as they seem to have cars come and go rapidly.
You're welcome~ Definitely still consider the other options. Unfortunately, I can't help much when it comes to specific cars- I just like searching and facilitating searches for others. Definitely do still consider your other options to see what makes most sense for your situation.

I'm with you on the allure of a newer car! I enjoy having a backup camera; it has saved me so much effort and guesswork.

KittyCat

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2015, 06:17:43 PM »
If we assume that you will continue to drive a second vehicle at a rate of 60000 miles per 8 years, 18 MPG for the truck and 38 MPG for the hybrid, and gas is around $3.95/gallon (CA price), then you'd be using around $866 less on gas every year. With the current national average of around $2.63/gallon, it'd be around $577 savings a year. Just some numbers to help you out.

Megma

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2015, 07:05:09 PM »
If you are just using the car for long road trips I wouldn't bother with a hybrid. A prius at highway speeds is really just a more expensive corolla. The advantage of hybrids is with around town driving where they can use electric power to do all the starts and stops.

We have both a Prius and a corolla, Prius still does about 50% better on the highway. It also has more cargo space and bigger backseat than the Corolla.

FWIW, I have a 2011 Prius that I bought two years ago used and it has been a great car. My friend has a 2007 and also loves hers. I get around 50mpg (regardless town or highway, basically the same) and if you are in a less hilly area, you'll do better than me. My friend said her mpg declined over time she gets in the low to mid 40s.

Oil changes cost slightly more because you need synthetic oil. Otherwise I've maybe replaced a headlight, granted at 70,000 miles the car is still practically new! It is low to the ground, I popped off the front plastic piece at a music festival but it wasn't a big deal. The cargo area is surpringly spacious. We take it car camping all the time and have plenty or room for all of gear and little pooch.

So far I don't know anyone that had to replace a battery and I've known three other Prius owners, some of whom are on their second one (just bc they wanted a new one after 5-8 years).

kendallf

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2015, 08:30:09 PM »
I know I've posted in response to other hybrid posts (including your earlier one, I believe), but I'll recap here: we now have 3 Prii in our family.  Best car I've ever had, hands down.  All are over 100k miles now, mine has 184k, all on original HV battery, no mechanical issues whatsoever.  Tons of room in the back, you can put 8' lumber in and close the hatch, or a bike, or a table saw...

I just returned from helping my daughter move back to FL from Athens, GA -- drove 700 miles round trip with all of her possessions in the back of my car and towing a trailer, queen size bed strapped to the top.  No, that's not recommended by Toyota, but it actually tows beautifully, if slowly.

My daughter's Prius got 53 mpg on the highway coming down here.  Mine usually gets around 42, 45 and up if I drive more slowly on the highway.  I paid $4900 for the oldest one (2004) with about 160k miles; $13k two years ago for a 2009 with ~65k miles.  The only thing I've replaced on any of them is the low voltage battery (12v Optima battery, ~$130.)

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2015, 05:32:49 AM »
If we assume that you will continue to drive a second vehicle at a rate of 60000 miles per 8 years, 18 MPG for the truck and 38 MPG for the hybrid, and gas is around $3.95/gallon (CA price), then you'd be using around $866 less on gas every year. With the current national average of around $2.63/gallon, it'd be around $577 savings a year. Just some numbers to help you out.

I can add some more numbers. :)

If you've got to spend $10000 more to buy an equivalent hybrid, you're forgoing the investment income that the $10000 would have produced. If the opportunity cost is calculated at a 4% SWR that cuts $400 a year from the savings.

Although of course it's unlikely to bother the OP, being FIRE and all.

The way I see it is, if you're not doing that many miles, then it's probably not worth it. Probably better off just keeping the truck or replacing it with a cheap small gas car.

kpd905

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2015, 06:01:37 AM »
If we assume that you will continue to drive a second vehicle at a rate of 60000 miles per 8 years, 18 MPG for the truck and 38 MPG for the hybrid, and gas is around $3.95/gallon (CA price), then you'd be using around $866 less on gas every year. With the current national average of around $2.63/gallon, it'd be around $577 savings a year. Just some numbers to help you out.

Minus the cost of insuring and registering a second car every year.

Megma

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2015, 10:09:56 AM »
3 Prii

I love that you have made the plural of Prius as Prii. I do this all the time and people look at my like I'm crazy, apparently no one studies Latin any more!

Also, good to know about the towing. Toyota definitely discouraged me from towing at one point in the past, maybe I just need to be prepared to drive slow.

Spartanna,  I find your comments on the size hilarious - I almost did not buy one because I thought they were too big! :-) I have found the car to be very spacious, we haven't had anything that we wanted to bring that there wasn't room for. And I used it in a move from DC to NC two years ago (with a box truck), so I have packed it to the gills.

I have also taken my prius on a road trip from NC to KS and back, 1,300+ miles each way and I spent only $204 on gas (including all my other driving while in KS, so not sure the exact # of miles but over 2,600), however this was during a low point in gas prices last year. Gas was between $1.85 - 2.50. Under two bucks was in Kansas, I may never see it that cheap again in my life!

KittyCat

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2015, 10:41:56 AM »
Minus the cost of insuring and registering a second car every year.
OP would still have only one car; the two-car scenario is if he goes with the Leaf. He has to trade in his truck to get the discount.

There are a lot of really good documentaries on electric cars you should watch..

Ive even seen a few on netflix, really interesting stuff...

I have read a few different times that these electric cars are extremely bad for the enviroment while being manufactured, I don't know if this is just typical big oil lobbying or if its true...

I have had my toyota matrix for the last 10 years and i have No complaints when it comes to the toyota brand.  This is a typical gas car not a hybrid, but as far as the brand toyota goes I recommend it, as it looks like many others are as well...

Best of luck!
My 7th grade science teacher taught me that as well- it was partly due to parts needing to be transported over longer distances to be manufactured since they weren't as popular before. When I read about the issue about a year ago, that is no longer the case.

And thanks KittyCat for doing the math on fuel. I probably would drive about the same - under 10K/year - although I also had other vehicles during some of the time I had my truck so did actually drive a bit more than 7500/year on average. The fuel prices in Cali are definitely spurring me on to want something more fuel efficient even if I don't drive too much. Almost up to $5/gal again a couple of weeks ago.
You're welcome~ Gas around where I live was $4.60 for regular the last time I refilled.

Scandium

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2015, 11:38:03 AM »
Your costs sounds expensive. I'm looking for basically the same as you: 3-5 year old prius with ~50k miles or less. At least on this coats they seem to go for around $13k, give or take. So being out $6k to get a car with double the mileage and half the miles? Sounds like a decent deal to me. Just be sure to thank the CA tax payers who are funding these silly wealth transfers..:)

edit; ok, carmax is insane! They want 20 grand for a 2011 prius with 60k miles?? wtf, are they high??
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 11:42:49 AM by Scandium »

enigmaT120

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2015, 01:07:07 PM »
Wow.  Gas here in Oregon is still at or just over 3 bucks a gallon. 

Scandium

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2015, 02:18:35 PM »
Your costs sounds expensive. I'm looking for basically the same as you: 3-5 year old prius with ~50k miles or less. At least on this coats they seem to go for around $13k, give or take. So being out $6k to get a car with double the mileage and half the miles? Sounds like a decent deal to me. Just be sure to thank the CA tax payers who are funding these silly wealth transfers..:)

edit; ok, carmax is insane! They want 20 grand for a 2011 prius with 60k miles?? wtf, are they high??
Yes Car Max totally over prices their used cars IMHO. They have high overhead like the dealers do (also high priced) but they are ridiculous when compared to buying from a private party. I cross checked some different cars from private party and places like car rental companies (Hertz sales)  - same year, same mileage, same model, even the same color - and Car Max averaged $4K - $8K higher than everyone else.

As for the replace your ride program - I think much (maybe all) of it is funded by a private individual and an environmental group. It's goal isn't to transfer wealth from higher income people to lower income people but to scrap high polluting cars and replace them with highly fuel efficient and low polluting cars and get them off the road in Calif. The various income thresholds were established because it was (rightly) assumed that a low or moderate income person with a fully functioning old polluting car wasn't going to junk it for an expensive electric or hybrid car because they couldn't afford to do that. So by giving lower income people greater incentives (and higher income people who could afford to buy Teslas and probably would regardless of their lower incentives) you would get more polluting cars off the road.

At least I learned that carmax is awful and should be avoided. Even just looking at dealers on cars.com the prii are ~$5000 cheaper.

Now I don't know much about the program, but I meant the wealth transfer isn't from rich to poor (yeah right that would never happen in america). More from CA tax payers to car manufacturers and dealers. Like the idiotic cash for clunkers, scrapping perfectly functional older cars, with all the resources used to produce them, is not a good idea. But hey; greenwashing! For CFC at least I think every calculation showed it had a negative impact, except for car manufacturers that is. Which of course was the intended goal. My favorite was a classmate who ditched his clunker and bought at $60,000 F-150..

But hey; if they're running it I don't fault you for taking advantage of it! I would too

KittyCat

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2015, 02:27:49 PM »
Thanks for the replies and suggestions everyone. I went and looked at some hybrids this morning and most of the lower priced ones with lower miles (like the Prius 3, Ford C-Max, Honda Insight and Honda CR-Z) were way too small for my needs - which is mostly longer term camping (couple a months at a time) road trips. With the dog, the bike, the trailer, my gear, etc... and occasionally the kayak... there just wasn't enough room for me, the dog and possibly a second person with their stuff.  Plus they were way over priced at the dealers I can use, with the newer used Pruises (Prii) around $20K (gulp!) and even the older ones with lots of miles over $17K. The larger ones like the SUVs are even older, more expensive, and with higher miles. Add in sales tax, license, registration, dealer fees, and extra insurance coverage and that's way more than I want to spend out of pocket even with the $7K discounts.  Especially since I don't really need a newer car at this time.

So for now I've decided to just keep the truck and use that for road trips and as needed at home, and just ride my bike for the most part when I can. Or maybe sell it myself (and probably get more than the blue book value) and use that money plus some extra to buy an inexpensive used vehicle that better suits my needs (4 cylinder mini van, SUV or wagon) thru a private party for MUCH cheaper than the dealer.  As KittyCat pointed out (btw I'm a female :)) , since I rarely drive the fuel saving by getting a hybrid won't make much of a difference (and it's now back down to the $3.59 here at the Arco's in SoCal - even less at Costco) and even lower out of state.
Well, that sounds like a plan! It's $3.69 at the local Arco here. I kinda just assume male unless otherwise specified, but I the cute dog picture could have clued me in xD Side note: I applied to work at SCAQMD and took their screening exam two weeks ago; I hope to hear back soon~

KittyCat

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2015, 02:53:52 PM »
THAT I agree is the case. Dealers are going to do very well. Maybe if the program evolves and they added more dealers or the option to do private party it would be great. It's still a good deal if you want to buy an electric car like the Nissan Leaf. It would be pretty much a straight swap with no or little money out of pocket for me beyond tax, license, reg and dealer fees - maybe $1500 - for me to get a 2013 Leaf with approx. 20K miles. Plus they give you an extra $2K to buy a special plug and have an electrician install a faster charging station at your house.  Though on that one long and hard (and am still tempted to do it) but it would mean me buying a second car to use for longer trips. But at least I could then get what I wanted and something that suited me better, and buy it anywhere I want. One of the issues I have with this program (although it makes good sense) is that you have to keep whatever vehicle you buy for 30 months in Calif  (no selling or trading it before 30 months, and it must stay registered in your name in Calif). While I think I'll be staying here that long, I may not and that would be a bit of a weight hanging over me if I wanted to leave the state before 30 months. Oh well, yet another reason not to participate even though I think for someone else it can be a great deal.
If you infrequently take longer trips, perhaps a rental car would cost less. Just a brief look on Hertz, Costa Mesa: around $104 after tax for a Ford Focus rented from Friday, Oct 9 to Monday Oct 12 without any discounts or their insurance.

tvan

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2015, 04:13:13 PM »
Fwiw Carmax is a great place to go and learn about cars and test drive them. Just not to buy lol. Tough spot for their business model. For some the higher price is worth the lower hassle of scumbag used car dealers.

KittyCat

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2015, 05:02:28 PM »
I generally do very long (multi-month long) road trips so renting wouldn't work for me in most cases for that. Although I had thought about trading in the truck and getting the Leaf and just renting but the cost was prohibitive to rent for that long so I really would need a second vehicle if I had an EV. Still haven't ruled that out yet though.
Multi-month trip sounds so enjoyable~ Yeah, renting simply wont work in your case, and with it being long-term, I doubt that leasing would make sense either.

Megma

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2015, 09:03:44 PM »
Wow I paid much less than 20k for my 2011 Prius that I bought two years ago, and it only had 40k miles.

Prepube

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2015, 11:35:24 PM »
If you are just using the car for long road trips I wouldn't bother with a hybrid. A prius at highway speeds is really just a more expensive corolla. The advantage of hybrids is with around town driving where they can use electric power to do all the starts and stops.
That's not true in practice... I get about 90 mpg in my Prius most mornings, downhill 30 miles to work that is all (or mostly) on the highway.  I get about 45 (uphill) on the way home and my overall mpg is currently 52.  My wife's corolla never comes close to this kind of efficiency.  The Prius is, indeed rated higher mpg in the city than on the highway, but if you drive with the intent to stretch the mileage, nothing else comes close unless its totally electric.

Megma

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2015, 06:48:46 PM »
Some friends of mine have a Honda Insight that they use in addition to their bigger truck (sound familiar?) they like it for their use but it is SMALL. Theirs is only a two door and has like no cargo space form what I have seen...given what you have said about prii, doesn't sound like it's for you!

Of the ones you mentioned, that's the only one I have any experience with. Good luck!

lbmustache

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2015, 09:18:16 PM »
Some friends of mine have a Honda Insight that they use in addition to their bigger truck (sound familiar?) they like it for their use but it is SMALL. Theirs is only a two door and has like no cargo space form what I have seen...given what you have said about prii, doesn't sound like it's for you!

Of the ones you mentioned, that's the only one I have any experience with. Good luck!

That is the old, first generation Insight. The newer one is sized like the Prius: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/2nd_Honda_Insight_EX_--_05-13-2011.jpg

Spondulix

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2015, 11:59:08 PM »
Priuses in CA have held value more than other places in part because of the carpool sticker. They stopped the program a couple years ago, but those cars with the sticker may be grandfathered into using the carpool lanes- I'm not sure.

When it comes to hybrids, you can't really compare sticker to sticker to a gas car. You have to compare the cost over time. I went from a Toyota Corolla to a dealer Prius - which to some mustacians might sound like a horrible move comparing sticker to sticker. In actuality, I compared the cost of the two cars over 10 years and found it would be nearly identical (when you factor in repairs, gas costs, etc). To me, it was more important to have a hybrid - I'd rather give the money to Toyota to support developing more hybrid technology than to Mobil or Exxon.

okonumiyaki

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2015, 12:18:35 AM »
The insight isn't as much of a hybrid as the Prius, FWIW.  It basically has an electric engine boost to the driveshaft.  This makes it lighter and cheaper than the Prius, but it isn't something you charge up instead of using petrol, though it is a clever way of re-using braking energy etc.  It can't run in just electric mode.  On the plus side, it drives more like a normal car, if that is your thing.  (personally I like the "engine braking" of a hybrid regeneration system)

happy

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2015, 04:58:04 AM »
I<3 my 2009 Prius. It does 5.2l/100km or 45mpg, averaged over 40,000km. It has a wheel at each corner which makes it surprisingly roomy - its like a Tardis. Only 2 downsides IMO - its close to the ground, so easy to bottom out i.e. its a road car. And no spare tyre -  come with an emergency tyre reinflation kit. Oh and if you're 6 foot 3 like my son, there is not enough headroom.

happy

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2015, 03:53:52 PM »
I'll have to look that one up as I never heard of it. The only Tardis I know of is a phone booth :-)!

Yup the very one, looks like a wee phonebooth but very big inside

NoraLenderbee

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2015, 05:36:15 PM »
Informative thread--thanks! I want my next car to be a high-efficiency hybrid. The Prius seems OK in most respects, but I would really like a sedan. Why are all the hybrids hatchbacks? Do the batteries take up the extra space?

enigmaT120

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2015, 01:29:56 PM »

 I do remember the first Insights though and they were kind of weird looking and much smaller.

Hmph, hurt my feelings!

2004 Insight by Ed Miller, on Flickr

It will haul my camping stuff, but I use it for a commuter.  I get around 60 mpg, many people get better.  It is smaller than the CRZ you looked at though.  The CRZ is supposed to be a successor to the CRX.  I think the first-gen Insight filled that slot pretty well for a few years though. 

NoraLenderbee

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2015, 02:13:02 PM »
Informative thread--thanks! I want my next car to be a high-efficiency hybrid. The Prius seems OK in most respects, but I would really like a sedan. Why are all the hybrids hatchbacks? Do the batteries take up the extra space?
There are tons of sedan hybrids out there -including some fancy pants Mercedes, Lincoln, and Lexis ones. Even saw a Porche Cayanne SUV hybrid. Most common ones I've looked at this past weekend were Ford Fusion, Hyundai Sonata, Kia Optima, Nissan Altima, Chevy Malibu, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord and Civics, Volkswagon, and some others I can't think of right now. All were very nice, looked just like "regular" gas sedans with the same amount of room in them. Prices aren't too bad either and some were much cheaper than an older Prius.  Here's a small list of some that are available used in my area: http://www.carmax.com/search?AsY=2007-2016&D=40&zip=92683&N=4294963179&Us=14&Q=6d032ceb-65a6-4b67-afdd-363c0e74a3d1&Ep=search:results:results page

Thanks for the information! This gives me a place to start. For my needs, the car needs to be highly efficient (high mpg), not just using the electric as a power boost, so I'll focus on those.

Dicey

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2015, 02:32:16 PM »
A few random thoughts to add: DH and I rented a Prius for a weekend road trip last week. We drove to SoCal and back and only spent $65 in gas including final fill-up. We laughed when the tank-is-on-fumes fill-up was $25! We are tall and found it to be too small. Cargo area was good, but both of us hit our heads more than once. It did seem rather gutless accelerating onto the freeway, but I think it's partly because the accelerator seems to be engineered to make it more difficult to floor it. If I stomped on it, it moved a little better.

Random conversation with a friend the day after our return revealed that he is shopping for a new Prius V for his wife. He got four bids in the low 22k range, because Toyota is restyling the 2016 and is dealing like crazy to get the 2015's out of their inventory. I know, not mustachian to buy a brand new car, but there are occasional exceptions. In this case, you're basically paying virtually no premium for the fact that it's a hybrid, and getting brand-new batteries, which changes the equation a bit, IMHO. How this will effect used car prices, IDK. I'm just tossing it in as food for thought.

daverobev

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2015, 06:44:09 PM »
Thoughts on http://www.autotrader.ca/a/Toyota/Prius/Ottawa/Ontario/5_24589058_ON20080305113726477/?showcpo=ShowCPO&orup=5_15_5

Pricing looks ok for Canada. Hasn't been rustproofed, apparently, not sure if that'll matter. Thinking of going and taking a look.

ColaMan

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2015, 07:58:53 PM »
Informative thread--thanks! I want my next car to be a high-efficiency hybrid. The Prius seems OK in most respects, but I would really like a sedan. Why are all the hybrids hatchbacks? Do the batteries take up the extra space?
There are tons of sedan hybrids out there -including some fancy pants Mercedes, Lincoln, and Lexis ones. Even saw a Porche Cayanne SUV hybrid. Most common ones I've looked at this past weekend were Ford Fusion, Hyundai Sonata, Kia Optima, Nissan Altima, Chevy Malibu, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord and Civics, Volkswagon, and some others I can't think of right now. All were very nice, looked just like "regular" gas sedans with the same amount of room in them. Prices aren't too bad either and some were much cheaper than an older Prius.  Here's a small list of some that are available used in my area: http://www.carmax.com/search?AsY=2007-2016&D=40&zip=92683&N=4294963179&Us=14&Q=6d032ceb-65a6-4b67-afdd-363c0e74a3d1&Ep=search:results:results page

I drive a 2011 Camry Hybrid.  I bought it new, at the end of the model year, in the summer of 2011.  It's been a very reliable car so far, essentially no maintenance issues (other than routine oil changes, etc.).  The interior feels just like the gas-powered version, though the available trunk space is slightly smaller, due to the battery.  It's not nearly as efficient as a Prius -- I typically get between 30 and 36 MPH, depending upon the mix of city and freeway driving I do (the Camry Hybrid is really efficient at moderate highway speeds  -- like 38-40+, but does relatively poorly in stop-and-go city driving).  I understand that the 2012 and later models are a bit lighter, and somewhat more efficient than my 2011.

lbmustache

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2015, 12:51:58 PM »
A few random thoughts to add: DH and I rented a Prius for a weekend road trip last week. We drove to SoCal and back and only spent $65 in gas including final fill-up. We laughed when the tank-is-on-fumes fill-up was $25! We are tall and found it to be too small. Cargo area was good, but both of us hit our heads more than once. It did seem rather gutless accelerating onto the freeway, but I think it's partly because the accelerator seems to be engineered to make it more difficult to floor it. If I stomped on it, it moved a little better.

Random conversation with a friend the day after our return revealed that he is shopping for a new Prius V for his wife. He got four bids in the low 22k range, because Toyota is restyling the 2016 and is dealing like crazy to get the 2015's out of their inventory. I know, not mustachian to buy a brand new car, but there are occasional exceptions. In this case, you're basically paying virtually no premium for the fact that it's a hybrid, and getting brand-new batteries, which changes the equation a bit, IMHO. How this will effect used car prices, IDK. I'm just tossing it in as food for thought.
That's a really good price on a new Prius V - I just checked my local Toyota dealer and the lowest priced 2015 they had was close to $32K. Even the used one at Car Max with over 50K miles on them go for close to $22K. But maybe there are incentives I'm not aware of.  I did go check out the used Prius V (too much $$ for me) and they are nice but don't think they are worth $30K plus. I'm still looking at used hybrids at the local Car Maxes as they seem to have new things crop up all the time.

Wondering if anyone has any experience or thought about the smaller hybrid SUVs like a Ford Escape?  The fuel mpg aren't as good as a smaller hybrid but it's still much lower than a small gas SUV.

Have you checked TrueCar? In SoCal, a Prius IV is coming up as MSRP: ~$29k, dealer price ~$24k. Over 18% off MSRP. Dealers will not post that price on their sites, but Truecar is the price range you can expect if you negotiate correctly.

daverobev

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2015, 05:27:15 PM »
Went to see a couple of Priuses today, a 2009 and 2006. 2006 looked slightly cleaner than the 2009, and has 3/4 the mileage - 86000 km vs 120000. 2006 is listed at $9k CAD, which is $7k USD these days. 50k miles, folks.

I liked it but it felt a bit sluggish. I feel I'm going to buy it if it checks out ok with Toyota... or is that a waste of money? Car is cleeeen. They usually feel sluggish from a standstill, right?

zinethstache

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #39 on: August 18, 2015, 03:23:23 PM »
My husband and I go through this each year. Each year our gas hog truck and SUV win the day. We bought them for cash many years ago and drive daily but short distances. (less than 6k put on them combined each year). We research, investigate, number crunch and you just cannot beat an older paid for car:/

Great thread. It makes me want to dredge up the old hybrid car purchase one more time for this year!

daverobev

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #40 on: August 18, 2015, 03:43:52 PM »
My husband and I go through this each year. Each year our gas hog truck and SUV win the day. We bought them for cash many years ago and drive daily but short distances. (less than 6k put on them combined each year). We research, investigate, number crunch and you just cannot beat an older paid for car:/

Great thread. It makes me want to dredge up the old hybrid car purchase one more time for this year!

Heh, I'm sadly coming to the same conclusion. My Vic is worth scrap, but it works fine. I'd love to get a new-old Prius... with the idea I'd go on long trips, sleep in it... But it'd cost me $10-12k after tax, winter tires, and a hitch install.. and insurance is $15 more a month.

Boo hoo, Crown Vic (no ac is the only real issue) gets to stay a while longer.

Another Reader

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #41 on: August 18, 2015, 03:48:53 PM »
If you pay the Truecar price, you are overpaying substantially.  Think about it.  Why do dealers point you to Truecar?  It's because they make a nice profit at that price.  Who reports prices to Truecar?  My guess is dealers.  They control the information, you overpay.

If you are not getting the car well below the BS invoice, you are most likely overpaying.

Advertised price at a local Toyota pusher in Silicon Valley for a new 2015 Prius V Level three trim:  $22,588.  That's $6,522 off MSRP.  10 in stock as of the weekend.

KittyCat

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #42 on: August 18, 2015, 04:41:18 PM »
If you pay the Truecar price, you are overpaying substantially.  Think about it.  Why do dealers point you to Truecar?  It's because they make a nice profit at that price.  Who reports prices to Truecar?  My guess is dealers.  They control the information, you overpay.

If you are not getting the car well below the BS invoice, you are most likely overpaying.

Advertised price at a local Toyota pusher in Silicon Valley for a new 2015 Prius V Level three trim:  $22,588.  That's $6,522 off MSRP.  10 in stock as of the weekend.
Actually, people who report their purchase prices also contribute to the information. I have never been at a dealer that pointed me to Truecar. Furthermore, I've seen the vehicle invoices before, and they are indeed around the price that Truecar says that they are. I imagine that they are still making a decent profit due to rebates, incentives, etc..., but I highly doubt that people who pay the prices at "Truecar dealers" are overpaying substantially.

Another Reader

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #43 on: August 18, 2015, 04:58:48 PM »
The Bay area is an extremely competitive new car market.  A lot of dealers here use Truecar and competitors.  One large dealership group advertises they price at the KBB version of the Truecar price.  Others use Truecar as a negotiating tool.  I paid well below the BS Truecar price for my last two cars and for the cars I negotiated recently for family and friends.  There are a few threads on car price negotiation here with some very helpful information.  If you pay the Truecar price, you are overpaying.

Guses

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #44 on: August 19, 2015, 12:06:40 PM »
I've come to this conclusion also after this weekends car-looking binge.  So am keeping the truck (and it just got cleaned, readied, and packed for a road trip tomorrow woo hoo!) and will wait to get something newer once I actually need to replace it. Dealing with low mpg is a pain but it does make me reduce my driving overall and so there's that at least.

If you have to shell out 15K$ for the hybrid, keeping the old truck is like having 15K$ invested working for you. Four percent of 15K$ is alot of gas money!

Alternatively, how to make 7,000$ in 5 steps:

1-Buy older hybrid
2-Receive 7,000$ for old truck
3-Sell hybrid privately for same amount
4-Buy back older high MPG car
5-PROFIT!!!!

enigmaT120

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Re: Hybrids. The good? The bad? You opinion.
« Reply #45 on: August 19, 2015, 04:00:36 PM »
My husband and I go through this each year. Each year our gas hog truck and SUV win the day. We bought them for cash many years ago and drive daily but short distances. (less than 6k put on them combined each year). We research, investigate, number crunch and you just cannot beat an older paid for car:/

Great thread. It makes me want to dredge up the old hybrid car purchase one more time for this year!

You are winning the game the best way:  you drive so little that it doesn't really matter what you drive.