Author Topic: So I met a "stock/options" trader...  (Read 3373 times)

jeromedawg

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So I met a "stock/options" trader...
« on: July 28, 2017, 10:00:06 AM »
So I was at a Cashflow game meetup (first time I played, and it was pretty fun) and one guy generated a ton of assets in the time we played (like 30-40x what anyone else did I'd say). Of course, he has obviously been playing the game for a long time now. Very interesting and smart guy - apparently he is FIREd (at just over 40) but did so off stock and options trading. I'm not sure what his lifestyle is like but he was in sales at IBM for many years. I just know that sales + tech = big money (I have a friend working in sales @ IBM and he lives a very lavish lifestyle). Anyway, he was saying "why keep working if I'm making 'little' giving my hours away vs much more investing on the side? So I quit my job" - a couple of us asked him about real estate, which he avoids owning, because to him it's more like running a business than it is like 'passively' investing... you have to trust that the people you're working with are going to do their best to maintain/increase the rate of your return. He mentioned he has a podcast/website as well, www.investingfromthebeach.com (apparently he and his old co-worker, who retired at around 30 doing the same thing, started it up), so I checked it out - seems like he has made/makes his fortune from trading. I haven't listened to all his podcasts but wanted to after talking to him, since he seems to be a pretty intelligent investor, at least from what I could gather.

In any case, I wanted to get the perspective from MMMers on investors who are into this type of trading. Once you *know* what to do, is it pretty easy to go about making trades for big gains? Or are we getting into crystal ball territory?


Another Reader

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Re: So I met a "stock/options" trader...
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2017, 10:11:30 AM »
Those Cashflow game meet ups are a great way for people peddling investment schemes to find prime marks for their products.

jeromedawg

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Re: So I met a "stock/options" trader...
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2017, 10:33:27 AM »
Yea, I noticed the link on his site to his 'workshop' for which he charges $2000 (seems there's a 5 student max limit and potentially 1 class each month). If he's actually maxxing out his classes each month, that would be $10000/mo or $120k/year not including the $100 he picks up for each person who attends the first class but doesn't attend the rest. I don't know how much he has been marketing this thing or for how long he's been doing it but it makes me wonder if this is really a swindle as much as it is a 'past-time' for him. He was obviously making really good money at IBM (the commission-based jobs I'm sure reach into the $200-300ks no?) - of course, that requires going in 9-5 vs once a week, so maybe it's a swindle to get him out of working full-time while still making a decent amount. Sounds like he's still playing the market (and making $$$ from it) though. 
All that said: if whatever he's doing is actually working as far as trading, is it based on taking big/huge risks and just getting lucky, or is it actual acquired knowledge that he's leveraging to make "income-producing" trades (he claims this is the case but I'd like to know if anyone here has or has heard of others doing the same type of trading)?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 10:46:40 AM by jeromedawg »

Another Reader

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Re: So I met a "stock/options" trader...
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2017, 10:36:56 AM »
Yea, I noticed the link on his site to his 'workshop' for which he charges $2000. I'm guessing he's not making a bulk of his living off of selling his workshop though - it *seems* this might be something he just likes to do in his spare time for some side/supplemental income? Which leaves the question: if whatever he's doing is actually working, is it based more on "luck" and taking big risks, or is it actual acquired knowledge that he's leveraging to make "income-producing" trades (he claims this is the case but I'd like to know if anyone here has or has heard of others doing the same type of trading)?

Bad guess.

BallerOnABudget

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Re: So I met a "stock/options" trader...
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2017, 10:39:17 AM »
As a general rule, I'm leery of people who talk about being rich. I'm even more skeptical if they look rich. And if they sell a product/service related to richness and how you can attain it just like them...I avoid them like the plague.

jeromedawg

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Re: So I met a "stock/options" trader...
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2017, 10:43:37 AM »
Yea, I noticed the link on his site to his 'workshop' for which he charges $2000. I'm guessing he's not making a bulk of his living off of selling his workshop though - it *seems* this might be something he just likes to do in his spare time for some side/supplemental income? Which leaves the question: if whatever he's doing is actually working, is it based more on "luck" and taking big risks, or is it actual acquired knowledge that he's leveraging to make "income-producing" trades (he claims this is the case but I'd like to know if anyone here has or has heard of others doing the same type of trading)?

Bad guess.

Yea, I updated the post. low-six figures, if he is able to get 5 attendees at least, isn't bad. If this is the type of thing where you only have to meet every Friday or Saturday night to "teach" 

ChpBstrd

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Re: So I met a "stock/options" trader...
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2017, 10:49:37 AM »
I follow velociraptor.cc. Nothing for sale but the ads to support the blog.

This guy embraces risk in options trading and high-yield investments and manages to grow his 500k portfolio while l/despite being FIRE'd at a 5% WR. It's a very interesting story IMO, especially for those of us going to work every day under the assumption that 3% is the only SWR.

jeromedawg

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Re: So I met a "stock/options" trader...
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2017, 10:57:15 AM »
I follow velociraptor.cc. Nothing for sale but the ads to support the blog.

This guy embraces risk in options trading and high-yield investments and manages to grow his 500k portfolio while l/despite being FIRE'd at a 5% WR. It's a very interesting story IMO, especially for those of us going to work every day under the assumption that 3% is the only SWR.


Thanks! That is interesting... is it dividend growth investing that he's into? I guess I'm just looking for resources like this. I'm more interested to know if people are commonly doing things like this and how they got there.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 11:00:00 AM by jeromedawg »

eudaimonia

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Re: So I met a "stock/options" trader...
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2017, 11:34:51 AM »
As someone who has traded stocks/options for about 15 years, this guy sounds like a huckster. No audited financial statements, no credentials, no way!

Trading is hard work and is far from passive. Real estate is just as hard if not harder. Anyone who tells you differently - you should run not walk away from.

That being said it is possible (not easy) to be successful in this business. My advice for newbies is to keep your money in your pocket and don't buy anything from anyone who doesn't have either 1) a professional history at a place like Goldman Sachs, and 2) an audited account. Accept no imitations or B.S.

Assuming you can't find anyone who meets those criteria (you probably can't) next step is to watch free content on places like Tastytrade, Khan Academy, etc. and then start a small account with like $2k. Take thousands of trades, and expect to lose every dollar. Take lots of small, low correlation trades. Reload the account and try not to lose money. Repeat until you can break even for a year. That is a huge friggin accomplishment, believe me. Eventually, after a few years of break-even you may start find yourself on the winning side of the trades occasionally. Don't get greedy/cocky. You probably will anyway. Start over. after losing that account.

Expect this process to take at least 8 years (like getting a MD). Eventually you will learn how to keep small amounts of money. If you can make 15% ROI per year without losing big (huge 50% + drawdowns), congratulations, you are now on par with the pros. You are the 0.1%. This doesn't sound like a lot, but if you have been wise and saved your money you should have a few hundred thousand to trade (don't trade all of your money btw - dumb). In another decade or so you should be very wealthy indeed.

Anyway, that's been my experience thus far. Wall St. is the hardest place to make easy money. If I had it all to do over again - I would do again but I think that's because I love trading. And that's the only reason I haven't quit. Good luck should you give it a shot.




bacchi

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Re: So I met a "stock/options" trader...
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2017, 04:54:51 PM »
Know how to get a million dollars in options trading? Start with two million.

Options trading: picking up nickels in front of a steam roller.


That said, I trade spreads on equity futures. It can be done profitably but there have been some scary moments, including a few all-nighters to watch the overseas markets. It's definitely not "passive" and it's not something that's set-and-forget, like index investing.


Edit: Podcast 17 is about MLMs: "we speak about the benefits and the pitfalls to a network-marketing business, while providing some items to keep in mind should you be looking at an MLM opportunity."

Yeah, this guy is legit. </s>
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 05:02:04 PM by bacchi »

jeromedawg

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Re: So I met a "stock/options" trader...
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2017, 07:55:31 PM »
Know how to get a million dollars in options trading? Start with two million.

Options trading: picking up nickels in front of a steam roller.


That said, I trade spreads on equity futures. It can be done profitably but there have been some scary moments, including a few all-nighters to watch the overseas markets. It's definitely not "passive" and it's not something that's set-and-forget, like index investing.


Edit: Podcast 17 is about MLMs: "we speak about the benefits and the pitfalls to a network-marketing business, while providing some items to keep in mind should you be looking at an MLM opportunity."

Yeah, this guy is legit. </s>


Hahaha yea I was wondering about the whole MLM thing. Funny too cause I was bashing MLMs with another newbie playing the game right in front of him, telling her that she may want to think twice about signing up if she ever is tempted, because you don't want to be *that* guy/gal on Facebook inviting all your friends to your "parties"