Author Topic: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger  (Read 8670 times)

whybe

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Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« on: October 18, 2015, 06:26:54 AM »
Mark ruffalow as the hulk in the first avengers movie says that in order to control the hulk, he's always angry. And I feel that way myself. I did literally years of therapy over this without much progress, participated in many workshops, had a life coach, read a lot of self help... Cannot seem to shake this feeling off. Angry with myself and my own ineptitude mostly, and over bad choices I've made most of the time. It's debilitating. It's painful. I'm trying to incorporate the mustache outlook but feel like a sham. I feel like a sham most of the time. Suggestions? I know from experience it will come out on the wrong people. And I don't want that.
*** I am aware that I am asking for psychological advice on an internet forum that has nothing to do with this field. Still would like nonjudgmental input on the issue. Thanks.

Squirrel away

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2015, 06:49:29 AM »
I had mindfulness taught to me in therapy and it has worked extremely well for me. I still get angry but not at all how I used to. It makes you focus on the present moment so you are not ruminating over the past or worrying so much about the future. I also try to be more objective and see if I am making an exaggerated reaction to something really quite insignificant.

Metta

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2015, 06:59:19 AM »
Zen meditation has helped me deal with my anger. Anger hasn't completely gone away, but I have the ability to deal with it now without becoming swept away by it. And by dealing with anger in meditation, it has moved aside a bit to allow me to experience and deal with a larger variety of emotions (good and bad). Nothing I've ever tried before has worked as well for me. That said, there are many other paths. My husband deals with his anger and other difficult emotions through running.

P.S. Love the title of the topic, btw.

whybe

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2015, 07:48:06 AM »
Thanks metta.
I did give meditation a half assed attempt a few years ago and it didn't stick. I might just try it again.

Left

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2015, 07:55:24 AM »
go to the gym? boxing/other hitting ones, seems like they claim to teach you how to focus anger... if you cant get rid of it, at least know what to do with it

plus you might too too tired after workout to be angry

are you just irritated by your job? or something else? and confusing it with anger?
IE: mad you don't have enough money to buy a car, not making enough money at job to afford said car? could you learn to be happy with being able to afford a cheaper car or not even having one
« Last Edit: October 18, 2015, 07:57:51 AM by eyem »

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2015, 07:57:26 AM »
Mark ruffalow as the hulk in the first avengers movie says that in order to control the hulk, he's always angry. And I feel that way myself. I did literally years of therapy over this without much progress, participated in many workshops, had a life coach, read a lot of self help... Cannot seem to shake this feeling off. Angry with myself and my own ineptitude mostly, and over bad choices I've made most of the time. It's debilitating. It's painful. I'm trying to incorporate the mustache outlook but feel like a sham. I feel like a sham most of the time. Suggestions? I know from experience it will come out on the wrong people. And I don't want that.
*** I am aware that I am asking for psychological advice on an internet forum that has nothing to do with this field. Still would like nonjudgmental input on the issue. Thanks.

The more I feel in control, the less likely I am to get pissed off.  How in control of your life and your day-to-day situation do you feel?  If that observation resonates with you, there are numerous techniques you could use to introduce a greater sense of control into your life.

Good luck.

wenchsenior

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2015, 10:33:18 AM »
Sometimes anger is actually a way of transferring feelings of anxiety. Not saying that is you, but the first step, I think, is to try to figure out where the anger you are feeling is coming from. Beyond that, I have found cognitive behavioral therapy techniques to be very helpful in managing my tendencies to anxiety and anger. Mindfulness techniques are also helpful, but I find them harder to do consistently. I keep working at it, and have noticed a real improvement in the past few years. Wish I'd discovered this years ago...wasted about 30 years being anxious, sometimes depressed, and frequently pissed off. And now 3 years of feeling much calmer, lighter, and letting stuff just roll on over me on away. I'm much better at not getting on a mental 'hamster wheel' of dwelling or working myself up TO NO PURPOSE.

This is  author/book most people try first, if you don't want to try a therapist who specializes in CBT (he has other books out, as well):

http://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Good-Handbook-David-Burns/dp/0452281326/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1445185878&sr=1-2&keywords=feeling+good

TheBuddha

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2015, 10:43:55 AM »
10mg propranolol

Erica/NWEdible

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2015, 11:24:36 AM »
10mg propranolol

I find this amusing, given your handle. :)

===

OP: For me it's not really anger, it's anxiety/stress, but the healthy answer in my case is exercise and the unhealthy answer is bourbon.

Sailor Sam

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2015, 11:56:43 AM »
I'm not angry all the time, but when I do get angry it's often too strong and directed badly. Here's what has helped me:

1. Meditation. Ten minutes per day, and I'm a much mellower person.

2. Reading 'Feeling Good' by David Burns. It taught me the theory of Cognitive Based Therapy, and how to perform it on myself without a therapist. It was tremendously helpful.

3. Navel gazing. I had to figure out why the fuck I was so angry and sad. I've heard compelling arguments that they why doesn't matter very much, and I can see the point. Who cares what motivates the emotion, as long as you can regulate the effect? However, I found that some reflection was a good thing. Too much reflection became a bad thing. I had to strike the balance.

4. I join the military. This was 2 pronged. First, strenuous exercise is mandated. I learned boxing, and find that literally punching people in the literal face is incredibly satisfying. Second, the military-industrial complex has 2 centuries of psychological studies on turning anger and aggression into a tool instead of a raving beast. By the end of OCS I lost the mindless howling side of my anger, and that was a big relief.

ETA: The military thing probably won't work for you. Sports teams could probably fulfill the same function.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2015, 12:57:50 PM by Sailor Sam »

whybe

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2015, 12:35:26 PM »
Mmm... Military service is actually on my resume,  as an Israeli. not to sound cynical but, while I did do some exercise while I was there (three years not so well spent), I did manage to get out with screwed up knees and a recurring dislocation in my shoulder. Had some combat experience too but that's all in the distant past (14 years ago).

I will check out David Burns.

Naval or navel? :-) I don't think i know the full meaning of the term...

In response to what's bugging me, it usually has to do with my perceiving of myself as unworthy / worthless / Inept / otherwise incapable in anything and everything. From job to relationship to deciding what to do with my life and how to live them... No breaks are given inside my head. Any disagreement with the people who matter in my life always ends up with me asking for forgiveness for my faults. I try to appease all parties but myself which I know is the wrong approach but do it anyway...
List goes on.

TheBuddha

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2015, 12:50:32 PM »
10mg propranolol
I find this amusing, given your handle. :)

If you meet the Buddha on the road, he is en route to the pharmacy.

Sailor Sam

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2015, 01:02:25 PM »
Mmm... Military service is actually on my resume,  as an Israeli. not to sound cynical but, while I did do some exercise while I was there (three years not so well spent), I did manage to get out with screwed up knees and a recurring dislocation in my shoulder. Had some combat experience too but that's all in the distant past (14 years ago).

I will check out David Burns.

Naval or navel? :-) I don't think i know the full meaning of the term...

In response to what's bugging me, it usually has to do with my perceiving of myself as unworthy / worthless / Inept / otherwise incapable in anything and everything. From job to relationship to deciding what to do with my life and how to live them... No breaks are given inside my head. Any disagreement with the people who matter in my life always ends up with me asking for forgiveness for my faults. I try to appease all parties but myself which I know is the wrong approach but do it anyway...
List goes on.

Oh urgh, bad typo. It's navel, not naval. It means excessive, and sometimes self-indulgent, thinking on a single subject, generally yourself.

Sounds like the military stuff didn't work the same magic for you. I agree that the lifestyle has physical repercussions.

mrsnamemustache

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2015, 01:10:02 PM »
Consider trying therapy again. You may have not had an effective therapist, or you may not have been ready to benefit at that time. Look for a therapist who does CBT and maybe also has experience in mindfulness-based strategies.  In addition to David Burns, consider Jeffery Young's Reinventing Your Life.

whybe

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2015, 01:46:17 PM »
Been in therapy for 5~ years now. Progress is slow to none. The therapist is a classic Freudian therapist with lots of experience and we tended to have good sessions. There was, however, no time frame and no fixed long term goals. I have moved to a different city two weeks ago and now I cannot meet him regularly and keep my sanity. I have been unhappy with treatment for some time but haven't spelled it out to him.

MarcherLady

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2015, 02:55:39 PM »
Whybe, now you have moved, and with so much of your anger focussed on yourself, it might be good to look for a new therapist, maybe someone with CBT experience, who can help you with self-esteem.  I'd also plus 1 the David Burns book. 

Positive affirmations might help too.  You will feel like a total fool the first few times, but it's a good habit to get into.  Speak to yourself the way you would speak to a friend, with kindness and compassion.

Lanthiriel

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2015, 03:22:01 PM »
This is really dumb and faddish, but I've always wanted to mediate and just... can't. The whole reason behind wanting to meditate is that my mind goes 100 mph. So I've started coloring. Get your hands on some colored pencils, and print yourself out one of these: https://www.google.com/search?q=adult+coloring+books&biw=1600&bih=872&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAmoVChMIxpqOu_nMyAIVCzKICh2jegI7&dpr=0.9

It's pretty relaxing.

Daley

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2015, 03:38:15 PM »
I'm going out on a limb, here, hoping you're still fluent... and I'm trying to speak both publicly and privately. Apologies.

שלום עליכם

ההתנצלויות שלי, בעברית היא לא השפה החזקה ביותר שלי. סלח לי תעוזה בשימוש בו במקום אנגלית

אתה היה אמור להיות עם צה"ל? תודה לך על שירותך

רב חכם אמר פעם

אם תבקשו תקבלו. אם תחפשו תמצאו. אם תדפקו תפתח לפניכם הדלת. כי כל המבקש מקבל, כל המחפש מוצא, ולפני כל דופק נפתחת הדלת. אם ילד מבקש מאביו פרוסת לחם, האם האב ייתן לו אבן במקום לחם? אם הילד מבקש דג, האם אתם חושבים שיקבל נחש? ואם אנשים רעים וחוטאים כמוכם נותנים לילדיכם מתנות טובות, האם לא ייתן אביכם שבשמים מתנות הרבה יותר טובות למבקשים ממנו? "עשו לאחרים את מה שהייתם רוצים שיעשו לכם זאת תמצית התורה ודברי הנביאים

יש אנשים שיש רעיון הנכון בשיחה הזאת. האבא שלי גם אמר לי פעם, "האדם היחיד שאתה יכול לשנות הוא את עצמך

ההתבוננות הפנימית היא שימושית, אבל הסליחה היא חיים משתנה

נסה משהו חדש, יש לך מה להפסיד

חפש ה ', לחדש את עצמך בברית החדשה. מאז חורבן בית המקדש השני, אין לנו מנגנון כפרה באמצעות קורבן יום הכיפורים ללא ישוע. נוצרים הם אחים רוחניים, אבל גם הם איבדו את תפיסתם של משיח. יהדותו של ישוע הייתה הולכת לאיבוד דרך אי ההבנה והשחיתות של האימפריה הרומית. ישראל הבינה איך משיח יהיה לשנות את האמונה במשך אלפי שנים. החל שינויים אלה, ישועה הגיעה לראשונה ככבש. להיות רעננים

אתה עלול למצוא את השלום ושלווה

It transformed my own life and melted away my anger, Whybe... but I'm just a small voice on the interbutts. Either the words I strove to write are true and they resonate with you, or nothing changes. I can only speak to my own experiences, and hope that the peace I found can be shared. What you do with it after this is up to you. Be well.

Beardog

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2015, 04:36:13 PM »
Add me to the others on this thread who have found meditation to be highly beneficial for reducing anger.  Through meditation, I've found that my anger can be a proxy for fear, feelings of inadequacy, and other unpleasant themes.  If there is a meditation group nearby that you can participate in, that might help meditation click for you.  There is a group that practices in the next city to me and I've been very fortunate to benefit from that, as well as working with one of the leaders as a meditation instructor.  The group asks for a small donation, $5/meeting, to defray the cost of the meeting location.

This past week I had a highly charged meeting with a coworker who is stressed out beyond belief.  My coworker started bouncing off the walls, and if I hadn't been in a centered place, the meeting could have quickly degenerated.  Because I managed to stay calm and positive, a bridge was built where a chasm of ill will could have been established.  Meditation is what enabled me to be constructive while under attack from someone is is vulnerable and in a bad place.

bsmith

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2015, 04:46:38 PM »
You spent years in therapy, and it didn't help. That's pretty frustrating in itself. Most therapy is useless and often reduces people's quality of life. Research shows that CBT is really the only effective therapy, and even that doesn't work sometimes. Psychologists who let someone languish in therapy for years are parasites.

Having said that, here's a good book for you: http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Good-Life-Ancient-Stoic/dp/0195374614

wenchsenior

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2015, 05:20:44 PM »
I have never been in formal therapy, but my impression is that a lot of traditional therapy techniques are helpful only if you don't understand the sources of your mental flailing, or if you just don't feel adequately 'heard and understood'. It sounds like you have moved past both of those problems, which I think happens pretty quickly for moderately self-aware people. The next step is to develop concrete techniques to help yourself, and I suspect traditional therapists aren't always as good at that. I think the trick is not to assume your particular issues are ever going to 'go away' so much as to properly manage them.

That's why I find CBT extremely helpful. A lot of my mental 'problems' are due to unhealthy or unhelpful thought patterns, which is mostly a function of poor self-awareness and bad habit. CBT just trains you gradually out of that.

Zikoris

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2015, 06:10:57 PM »
I've never been a really angry sort of person, but when I'm pissed off from something at work I usually find some combination of ranting to my boyfriend and hard physical exercise to be really helpful.

I find that purposely engineering my day-to-day life to be low stress makes a big difference in my mood as well. For me, that means having everything orderly, having a meal plan so I know what to make every day and have the ingredients ready to go ahead of time, and not having an overly-packed schedule in general. I like to have most of my non-working time dedicated to fun stuff.

Tjat

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2015, 06:23:57 PM »
I don't consider myself angry, but can get in "moods" when I'm stressed that my wife bugs me about (and I can see how it's truly annoying). So what I try to do is take a deep breath and envision having to be with myself through one of these "episodes." That usually stops/lightens it.

I'm thinking this may not work if you have blackout fury, which is more rage than anger.

whybe

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2015, 09:14:02 PM »
I'm going out on a limb, here, hoping you're still fluent... and I'm trying to speak both publicly and privately. Apologies.

שלום עליכם

ההתנצלויות שלי, בעברית היא לא השפה החזקה ביותר שלי. סלח לי תעוזה בשימוש בו במקום אנגלית

אתה היה אמור להיות עם צה"ל? תודה לך על שירותך

רב חכם אמר פעם

אם תבקשו תקבלו. אם תחפשו תמצאו. אם תדפקו תפתח לפניכם הדלת. כי כל המבקש מקבל, כל המחפש מוצא, ולפני כל דופק נפתחת הדלת. אם ילד מבקש מאביו פרוסת לחם, האם האב ייתן לו אבן במקום לחם? אם הילד מבקש דג, האם אתם חושבים שיקבל נחש? ואם אנשים רעים וחוטאים כמוכם נותנים לילדיכם מתנות טובות, האם לא ייתן אביכם שבשמים מתנות הרבה יותר טובות למבקשים ממנו? "עשו לאחרים את מה שהייתם רוצים שיעשו לכם זאת תמצית התורה ודברי הנביאים

יש אנשים שיש רעיון הנכון בשיחה הזאת. האבא שלי גם אמר לי פעם, "האדם היחיד שאתה יכול לשנות הוא את עצמך

ההתבוננות הפנימית היא שימושית, אבל הסליחה היא חיים משתנה

נסה משהו חדש, יש לך מה להפסיד

חפש ה ', לחדש את עצמך בברית החדשה. מאז חורבן בית המקדש השני, אין לנו מנגנון כפרה באמצעות קורבן יום הכיפורים ללא ישוע. נוצרים הם אחים רוחניים, אבל גם הם איבדו את תפיסתם של משיח. יהדותו של ישוע הייתה הולכת לאיבוד דרך אי ההבנה והשחיתות של האימפריה הרומית. ישראל הבינה איך משיח יהיה לשנות את האמונה במשך אלפי שנים. החל שינויים אלה, ישועה הגיעה לראשונה ככבש. להיות רעננים

אתה עלול למצוא את השלום ושלווה

It transformed my own life and melted away my anger, Whybe... but I'm just a small voice on the interbutts. Either the words I strove to write are true and they resonate with you, or nothing changes. I can only speak to my own experiences, and hope that the peace I found can be shared. What you do with it after this is up to you. Be well.

Conversion to another religion is not on the table if that's what you are offering. Thanks. Neither is Jewish orthodoxy. Your Hebrew is very good, I couldn't figure out the nuances of which side you speak from.

Metta

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2015, 09:26:04 PM »
Thanks metta.
I did give meditation a half assed attempt a few years ago and it didn't stick. I might just try it again.

I also gave various kinds of meditation half-assed attempts several times in the last 30 years. I have no idea why it was so wildly successful for me this time. Is it that I'm better with Soto Zen meditation than other kinds? Is it that I was desperate for relief from the angry feelings and therefore more serious with my practice? Is it that I have a really great sangha to practice with now? Who knows?  I suspect that it is that I am finally ready for it. You might try various kinds of meditation. They are all a bit different and one may work where others don't.

Yoga helped me for several years as well but stopped helping me after I fell out of a headstand and injured myself badly. After that I was too afraid in yoga class for it to provide much help with difficult emotions. So it goes. Things that worked stop working and things that never worked before suddenly begin working.

whybe

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2015, 09:38:20 PM »
I find that purposely engineering my day-to-day life to be low stress makes a big difference in my mood as well. For me, that means having everything orderly,

This is a real challenge for me and DW. I myself work in a high stress environment, luckily I don't take the work home, but in the past couple of weeks the shit's been hitting the fan more often than not. Also no chance of higher compensation at work at the moment or for the foreseeable future. On top of that,  moving has tripled the time it takes me to get to and from work so I spend a lot more time on the road as I take public transport. That is about to change as we are going to get a vehicle, an idea which I detest but it's either that or switching careers for me which is another story entirely... I digress.

Thanks for the suggestions. It's tough to engineer one's life if one has no plan and no vision of what they want. Which is also connected to the whole thing. Also trying to communicate this to DW has backfired on a few occasions.

Allie

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2015, 11:48:09 PM »
+1 to trying another therapist.  +1 to a CBT style. 

I'm glad some people find benefit from psychodynamic practitioners, but it strikes me as less than helpful. 

It has been said that anger is a harder, secondary feeling derived from another, softer, less managable feeling like sadness, embarrassment, fear, inadequacy, hopelessness, worthlessness, etc.  You have to find and address the primary feeling and experience before the anger.  Sometimes this involves addressing depression or anxiety in therapy.

Drugs, including the aforementioned beta blockers can work too...

Daley

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2015, 12:08:34 AM »
Conversion to another religion is not on the table if that's what you are offering. Thanks. Neither is Jewish orthodoxy. Your Hebrew is very good, I couldn't figure out the nuances of which side you speak from.

Thank you, I try. Nope, not talking conversion, nor the orthodoxy. Simply the same monotheistic Judaism complete with Torah, but with the addition of Messiah Yeshua as promised by Moses and Daniel. Messianic/Netzari Judaism, if you will.

I used to be a far more angry person than I am today. Judaism and Torah helped me find HaShem, but Yeshua gave me an unexpected peace once I fought through and stripped away the ~1800 years of pagan sun god rubbish that got tacked on. It has and continues to help me, and I shared my experience. What you do with the information is up to you, though. I only suggest it as an option.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2015, 12:11:32 AM by I.P. Daley »

whybe

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2015, 03:15:20 AM »
Thanks for clarifying. I have little interest in this type of journey. Even if your experience says it was beneficial for the issue at hand.

messymoneymay

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2015, 06:12:59 AM »
This might seem a little random - but are you taking any supplements?

My husband saw a nutritionist and she put him on B vitamins and his anger was off the charts. After some time we figured out it was the vitamins and he stopped and is much better. I have read that this can happen even with nutritional supplements not in pill form (shakes etc.)

Not saying this is the whole problem or solution but could be a factor to look at.

Edit: might not be clear from above but taking B made his anger worse.

GuitarStv

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2015, 06:47:20 AM »
go to the gym? boxing/other hitting ones, seems like they claim to teach you how to focus anger... if you cant get rid of it, at least know what to do with it

plus you might too too tired after workout to be angry

This worked for me.

Frustration builds in typical day to day stuff.  Boxing is simple, exhausting, and drains all that away in short order.  Bullshit can't really survive in the ring, it pares everything down to essentials.  Either you land the hits, or the other guy does.  Control comes because you'll find that anger just gets in the way and usually makes you lose.

shotgunwilly

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2015, 09:32:31 AM »

honeybbq

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2015, 11:00:24 AM »
Just to add on-

Do you get regular exercise? Having a good outlet is helpful.

Also, to calm, try yoga and mindful relaxation and positive self talk.

whybe

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Re: Hulk smash! Or: how do you deal with anger
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2015, 10:09:33 PM »
Not regular exercise per se but I do walk / run a lot from place to place. I also dance but that's taking a bit of a hiatus due to the move situation. Exercise in and of itself always seemed pointless to me, I tried gym (run / spin), pool, free weights. It's the mindless repetition that gets me. And I don't like running just for runnings sake. Never could push past the pain if I didn't have anywhere to go.