Author Topic: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?  (Read 37007 times)

thg80

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HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« on: January 26, 2015, 04:24:43 PM »
I just max contributed the $6,650 for 2015 tax year for my HSA with HSA bank. I found some older posts but didn't seem to be a clear consensus.

Who are you doing your investments with? TD Ameritrade or Devenir?

Goal of course: Lowest possible fees

I believe TD Ameritrade has some Vanguard Funds that can be purchased.

Curious what you're all doing.

thg80

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2015, 01:15:40 AM »
Anyone using these? Think I'll just read through some more of their fine print

AK

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2015, 04:14:35 AM »
I started investing last year through TDAmeritrade with hsabank. TD is good for me. They have a ton of investment options, stocks, bonds, efts, etc. Personally, I've been investing in commission free ETFs with Vanguard, primarily VTI. VTI is the ETF version of Vanguard's total stock market mutual fund and has an expense ratio of .05%.

Also, my employer opened up a self directed 401k through TD and now I have better investment options and the ability to see both accounts in one login.

MetalCap

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2015, 01:09:16 PM »
AK,

Do you see any major fees or issues with the Self Directed 401k on TD?  I'm considering this move with my new employer but don't know if the fee's or commision free ETF's stay that way for each contribution.

Any details would be appreciated.


AK

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2015, 05:14:10 PM »
At my employer, there was a setup fee for 60 or 80 dollars but my employer covered that and then the 401k provider charges 120 per year which comes out of my assets. The commission free ETFs are still commission free through TD. Not all ETFs are commission free. These fees are ok with me.

What's a pain for me is that I have to manually transfer funds from the 401k to TD and then place the orders. That's not automatic and can't be automated. Also, the minimum transfer balance for me is $1,250 dollars so that takes a little while to accumulate.

Despite all that, it's still worth it for me because of the better investment options. Contact HR, they should have this info for you.

Bikesy

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2015, 05:21:51 PM »
I have this same set up and use TD.  You can buy vangurd ETFs with 0 transaction costs.

civil

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2015, 06:12:47 PM »
I just max contributed the $6,650 for 2015 tax year for my HSA with HSA bank. I found some older posts but didn't seem to be a clear consensus.

Who are you doing your investments with? TD Ameritrade or Devenir?

Goal of course: Lowest possible fees

I believe TD Ameritrade has some Vanguard Funds that can be purchased.

Curious what you're all doing.

I was all set to use TD for this (just started an HSA last month) because my research during open season indicated that TD had Vanguard funds with lower fees than everything else offered. But I logged into my account for the first time today, and there is a pdf with the TD investment funds, and Vanguard isn't listed :( So now I'm not sure. If you can invest in a Vanguard fund, how do you do it??

GregO

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2015, 03:42:50 PM »
I signed up with HSA Bank a year or two ago and used a brokerage window with TDA.  I haven't had any problems and have been happy with it.  HSA Bank charges me $3/month, but it's worth it in comparison to the low interest rates you can get with HSA Bank.  I thought TDA was an easy choice over Devenir.  You have the freedom to invest your money anywhere with TDA including 100+ commission free ETFs, many of which are vanguard index funds.  Your only investment options with Devenir are a handful of funds that they actively manage (and have higher expense ratios).  If I remember right, it was the same $3 fee per month for TDA or Devenir.  I don't see any advantages that Devenir has over TDA...
« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 03:44:54 PM by GregO »

GregO

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2015, 04:00:28 PM »
I was all set to use TD for this (just started an HSA last month) because my research during open season indicated that TD had Vanguard funds with lower fees than everything else offered. But I logged into my account for the first time today, and there is a pdf with the TD investment funds, and Vanguard isn't listed :( So now I'm not sure. If you can invest in a Vanguard fund, how do you do it??

I'm not sure I follow what you are saying, but these are the steps I had to do:
Open an account with HSA Bank
Request a TDA-linked account through HSA Bank
Transfer funds to TDA account
Buy Commission Free ETFs (many Vanguard funds)

Anomalous

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2015, 11:37:08 PM »
I just finished opening HSA Bank and TD Ameritrade accounts. Finally got the contributions and HSA rollover into TD Ameritrade and purchased ETFs this morning. They definitely do have commission free Vanguard ETFs; I bought VT and BND.

You do have to "enroll" in commission-free ETFs on the "My Profile" page. I did this a couple days ago when the account was first opened, but it didn't take for some reason, so I accidentally paid a $9.99 commission on the first trade this morning. I re-enrolled in commission-free ETFs and it seems to have stuck this time, because the second trade was commission-free and when I logged in just now it still shows me as enrolled in commission-free ETFs.

Jeremiah

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2016, 09:47:46 AM »
Been looking into this.  Found this:

https://hr.wustl.edu/benefits/Documents/HSA_Invest.pdf

Devenir has no fees, but fewer options.  FYI.

jorjor

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2016, 09:56:10 AM »
Been looking into this.  Found this:

https://hr.wustl.edu/benefits/Documents/HSA_Invest.pdf

Devenir has no fees, but fewer options.  FYI.

TD Ameritrade has a bunch of commission-free ETFs, including VTI and some other Vanguard options. That document doesn't mention this. The expense loads on the Devinir funds are much higher than what I've been charged for TD Ameritrade options.

All of my invested HSA Bank funds are with TDA, invested in VTI.

TaxFreeSaving

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2016, 08:55:54 AM »
The expense loads on the Devinir funds are much higher than what I've been charged for TD Ameritrade options.

This does not appear to be true.  All the Devinir funds accessed via HSABank are either no-load or load waived (again, no-load).  This is clearly stated in all of HSABank's materials.

At only $24 per year, no trading fees, no loads, about 20 funds with expense ratios starting at .6, it seems like a solid, simple option.  TD will provide much more flexibility, but not everyone needs that at all times.

Any other thoughts on Devinir?  I'm about to link up with them.

Spork

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2016, 09:32:25 AM »
I signed up with HSA Bank a year or two ago and used a brokerage window with TDA.  I haven't had any problems and have been happy with it.  HSA Bank charges me $3/month, but it's worth it in comparison to the low interest rates you can get with HSA Bank.  I thought TDA was an easy choice over Devenir.  You have the freedom to invest your money anywhere with TDA including 100+ commission free ETFs, many of which are vanguard index funds.  Your only investment options with Devenir are a handful of funds that they actively manage (and have higher expense ratios).  If I remember right, it was the same $3 fee per month for TDA or Devenir.  I don't see any advantages that Devenir has over TDA...

Hmmm...  I am on my first year with HSABank and was letting that money "bake" in their money market fund to avoid fees.  I was planning on starting with TDA funds next year, leaving the minimum in the money market for fee avoidance.  At $36 a year vs what might be earned on $6650... maybe I need to rethink this.

SomedayStache

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2016, 09:37:29 AM »
Following.  Only have about $1000 in my HSABANK account at the moment, but hopefully next year I'll have enough to start moving it around.

CanyonMan

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2016, 04:05:20 PM »
Anyone care to share how the process has gone over the last few months?

I'm about to come up on this decision as well and it would be good to see how it worked out for you all.

jorjor

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2016, 05:06:33 PM »
The expense loads on the Devinir funds are much higher than what I've been charged for TD Ameritrade options.

This does not appear to be true.  All the Devinir funds accessed via HSABank are either no-load or load waived (again, no-load).  This is clearly stated in all of HSABank's materials.

At only $24 per year, no trading fees, no loads, about 20 funds with expense ratios starting at .6, it seems like a solid, simple option.  TD will provide much more flexibility, but not everyone needs that at all times.

Any other thoughts on Devinir?  I'm about to link up with them.

I should not have used the word 'load'. The expense ratios are higher in Devenir. You cited a .6% expense ratio on the Devenir funds, which is what I'm seeing too. I'm in VTI with TD Ameritrade. No commissions, .05% expense ratio. The difference is significant.

Raurik

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2016, 09:11:53 AM »
I decided to make an account just to reply to this post.  I have been an avid reader of the MMM blog and forums for a little over a year, and I feel I can actually contribute to this topic!

I use HSA Bank and have all of my money with Devenir.  You can get lower fees with TDA, but there seemed to be more hoops to jump through.  Devenir gives me access to HLEIX, basically JP Morgan's S&P 500 fund.  The shares are the S Class so the expense ration is only 0.20%.  Admittedly, not as low as Vanguard ETFs with TDA, but also not crazy.  I like simplicity and this works for me.  I recently looked into the TDA account, but it wasn't worth it IMHO to make the switch. 


BTH7117

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2016, 09:25:39 AM »
Anyone care to share how the process has gone over the last few months?

I'm about to come up on this decision as well and it would be good to see how it worked out for you all.

I opened a HSABank/TD account in Jan.  So far, it's great.  I buy VTI without commission in the TD account.  You can set up your HSABank account to automatically move everything to the TD account or move things at set intervals.  $100 comes out of my paycheck biweekly to the HSA account, plus $62.50 monthly in the form of a "premium pass-through."  $100 is then automatically moved from my HSA account to the TD account every 1st and 15th of the month.

I have ~$500 in the HSABank account and $1000 in the TD account, all in VTI.

AK

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2016, 10:46:30 AM »
We've been maxing the HSA since 2014 and have a balance around 18K. Unrealized gains are about 1,000 so far. We invest in VTI through TD.

What are the hoops you guys are jumping through to enroll?

The initial setup in 2014 was pretty easy from what I remember. The high-level steps were something like:

1) Enroll in TD or Devinir. Wait a few days for accounts to be linked.
2) In TD, enroll in commission free ETFs.
3) Transfer money from HSA to TD.
4) Purchase desired securities.

Quote
This does not appear to be true.  All the Devinir funds accessed via HSABank are either no-load or load waived (again, no-load).  This is clearly stated in all of HSABank's materials.

At only $24 per year, no trading fees, no loads, about 20 funds with expense ratios starting at .6, it seems like a solid, simple option.  TD will provide much more flexibility, but not everyone needs that at all times.

Any other thoughts on Devinir?  I'm about to link up with them.

I think Devinir would be cheaper at first but then after a few years, TD would be cheaper with their expense ratios in Vanguard securities. It certainly depends. For me, TD makes more sense because my current expenses are $66 + (18,000 * 0.0005) = $75. Devinir based on the information above would cost me about $24 + (18,000 * 0.006) is $132.

SpareChange

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2016, 12:29:38 PM »
I invest in TD via HSA Bank as well. I've been pleased with the experience so far. It's also neat since my IRA and taxable accounts are with TD too, so I was able to link them all together for easy viewing. As others have said, just enroll in no-commission fee etfs and pick your poison.

MVal

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2016, 06:45:32 AM »
Sorry I'm late to the party, but is "HSA Bank" a bank through which people do self-directed HSAs? Does anyone know if you have an HSA through an employer's bank if you can generally move the funds to another bank while still employed there? Our company's bank offers HSA investing, but I doubt there are any Vanguard funds.

hellommm

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2017, 04:10:14 PM »
are HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade users just logging in and buying funds each time a contribution is made or have you sorted out some loophole to automatically buy? I'd like to have auto investments into VTI, but I contacted TDA and they said you can only set up automatic investments into mutual funds. Just wanted to double check w/ the community. thanks!

AK

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2017, 05:50:11 PM »
I purchase, manually, VTI each time and manually transfer funds even though automatic transfer from hsa bank to TD is available.

RWD

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2017, 07:35:58 PM »
I just finished opening HSA Bank and TD Ameritrade accounts. Finally got the contributions and HSA rollover into TD Ameritrade and purchased ETFs this morning. They definitely do have commission free Vanguard ETFs; I bought VT and BND.

You do have to "enroll" in commission-free ETFs on the "My Profile" page. I did this a couple days ago when the account was first opened, but it didn't take for some reason, so I accidentally paid a $9.99 commission on the first trade this morning. I re-enrolled in commission-free ETFs and it seems to have stuck this time, because the second trade was commission-free and when I logged in just now it still shows me as enrolled in commission-free ETFs.

I didn't realize I had to enroll at first and got hit with a couple commission fees. I asked nicely and TD reversed the fees for me.


are HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade users just logging in and buying funds each time a contribution is made or have you sorted out some loophole to automatically buy? I'd like to have auto investments into VTI, but I contacted TDA and they said you can only set up automatic investments into mutual funds. Just wanted to double check w/ the community. thanks!

I'm doing mine manually.

kendallf

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2017, 07:54:46 PM »
Sorry I'm late to the party, but is "HSA Bank" a bank through which people do self-directed HSAs? Does anyone know if you have an HSA through an employer's bank if you can generally move the funds to another bank while still employed there? Our company's bank offers HSA investing, but I doubt there are any Vanguard funds.

Yes, you can transfer from one HSA to another.  I have had several different default HSA administrators, depending on which insurance plan I've been in.  I consolidated mine each year with HSA Bank; the direct trustee to trustee transfer worked fine although it was slow.  Now I have Health Equity with reasonable investing options and I'm considering moving my HSA Bank money away to Health Equity. 

Something I haven't seen others mention here is that most of these administrators require you to keep a certain amount in cash (or their "savings account").  For a self administered HSA Bank account, you need $5k un-invested in the base account to avoid monthly fees, which is a considerable drag.  Health Equity only requires $2k cash although they do charge an "Investor Choice" fee if you invest in low fee funds that they aren't hawking (i.e., IShares index funds).

SomedayStache

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2017, 10:02:01 AM »
This question is perhaps a bit elementary, but myself and a co-worker are both trying to figure it out.

Is it possible to buy a  set dollar amount of VTI (or whatever) at TDAmeritrade or can you only buy whole shares?  The only other experience I have buying shares is in my TSP and Vanguard Roth IRA.  In both places I simply say the dollar amount I want to buy and I get a number of shares in return (typically not a whole number).

I can't figure out how to do this in my TDAmeritrade account that is linked to HSABANK.  Therefore each time I buy VTI I end up having a bit of money left sitting in the default money market fund at TDAmeritrade.

AK

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2017, 10:06:35 AM »
This question is perhaps a bit elementary, but myself and a co-worker are both trying to figure it out.

Is it possible to buy a  set dollar amount of VTI (or whatever) at TDAmeritrade or can you only buy whole shares?  The only other experience I have buying shares is in my TSP and Vanguard Roth IRA.  In both places I simply say the dollar amount I want to buy and I get a number of shares in return (typically not a whole number).

I can't figure out how to do this in my TDAmeritrade account that is linked to HSABANK.  Therefore each time I buy VTI I end up having a bit of money left sitting in the default money market fund at TDAmeritrade.

To the best of my knowledge, you have to buy whole shares with ETFs and stocks at TD. If you purchase mutual funds, then you can use the entire amount. I wish you could buy fractional shares of ETFs because I have uninvested amounts in the money market left over. I hope I'm wrong here.

hellommm

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2017, 08:45:37 PM »
when i called TDA, i had also confirmed that you're only able to own partial shares of mutual funds and not stocks or etfs

Rural

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2017, 02:22:34 AM »
Posting to follow as my rollover to HSA Bank just went through and now I have to get it into investments.

SomedayStache

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2017, 06:25:22 AM »
Thanks AK and hellommm.  At least now I can stop feeling like I'm technically incompetent on the website.

Rural

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #31 on: July 07, 2017, 09:37:11 AM »
I just finished opening HSA Bank and TD Ameritrade accounts. Finally got the contributions and HSA rollover into TD Ameritrade and purchased ETFs this morning. They definitely do have commission free Vanguard ETFs; I bought VT and BND.

You do have to "enroll" in commission-free ETFs on the "My Profile" page. I did this a couple days ago when the account was first opened, but it didn't take for some reason, so I accidentally paid a $9.99 commission on the first trade this morning. I re-enrolled in commission-free ETFs and it seems to have stuck this time, because the second trade was commission-free and when I logged in just now it still shows me as enrolled in commission-free ETFs.

I didn't realize I had to enroll at first and got hit with a couple commission fees. I asked nicely and TD reversed the fees for me.


are HSA Bank + TD Ameritrade users just logging in and buying funds each time a contribution is made or have you sorted out some loophole to automatically buy? I'd like to have auto investments into VTI, but I contacted TDA and they said you can only set up automatic investments into mutual funds. Just wanted to double check w/ the community. thanks!

I'm doing mine manually.


Okay, would someone tell me how to buy funds in the fee-free ETF? I'm enrolled now; that shows up when I log in. But where do I go to make the buy?


The Vanguard website makes much more sense to me...

RWD

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #32 on: July 07, 2017, 09:49:45 AM »
Okay, would someone tell me how to buy funds in the fee-free ETF? I'm enrolled now; that shows up when I log in. But where do I go to make the buy?

Trade->Buy/Sell

See the attached images I just made. You can find a list of the commission free ETFs under Research & Ideas.

Rural

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2017, 12:03:17 PM »
Thank you!

thingamabobs

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Re: HSA Bank Users - TD Ameritrade or Devenir?
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2017, 01:26:27 PM »
Fee free ETF on TD Ameritrade, make sure you enroll in their fee free program first! I don't remember where exactly to find it, but there was a banner up top at one point. If you don't enroll, you will be charged even f the fund you're buying is on the list.