Author Topic: Ladies, please confirm my suspicions and give me some advice  (Read 24339 times)

chschen

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Re: Ladies, please confirm my suspicions and give me some advice
« Reply #50 on: May 20, 2014, 04:31:49 PM »
@DoubleDown, I like the idea and the general principle of going anyway.  I'd probably modify the language a little bit - what you wrote seems a little bossy/moralistic to me, but I'd probably use something like "Hey, I'm going to X...would you like to join me?"

That's good too -- not as good, but still really good ;-)  Maybe I should make clear, the "you should join me" is not issued as a command; it is a lighthearted, casual, almost offhand comment, like when you would say to a casual friend with a smile, "I go biking every weekend and it's great, you should come with me some time!"

"I'd love for you to join me"

leading without being commanding, I win ;-)

No way, I like the other one better. "I'd love for you to join me" is so corny/formal. But maybe that's an age difference thing.

southern granny

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Re: Ladies, please confirm my suspicions and give me some advice
« Reply #51 on: May 20, 2014, 05:38:08 PM »
Don't call or show up at her church.  The next time you see her,  either ask for her phone number or ask her to a casual event...  lunch, coffee.  You sound like a nice guy.  Nice guys are hard to find.  She may be hoping that you ask her out.  But if not... if she turns you down, then at least you know and you can move on.  She sounds like a religous person.  If so, then that is probably high on her list of attributes for a boyfriend.  Don't lie to her, but if you are a man of faith, then figure out a way to make that information known to her (casually).  Good Luck!

RapmasterD

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Re: Ladies, please confirm my suspicions and give me some advice
« Reply #52 on: May 20, 2014, 09:30:29 PM »
Forget about all the nuanced stuff.  If you can't talk to her, how are you going to get to sleeping with her, marry her, or any of the other stuff that you may eventually hope to get to do.

Practice your social interactions with everyone, not just women you are interested in.  That's the hardest of them all.  Talk to strangers, girl's you aren't interested in, etc. Work yourself up although this particular girl may be gone by tjen, you may find others.

Btw, there are better forums than this one to ask this sort of stuff.  Not sure that Mustachians are a particularly good subsection of people to ask.

I agree with everything here with the possible exception of the last two sentences. I mean come on...mustachians know EVERYTHING. That said: a) DEFINITELY work on your self confidence. b) Get more "at bats." c) Most importantly, watch "Four Weddings and a Funeral" five times in a row. For some odd reason that movie changed my life. Seriously. My take-away from this film: If it's meant to be, everything can go wrong and it will still 'happen.' But if it's not meant to be, then everything can go right and it still won't 'happen.'

Zoot

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Re: Ladies, please confirm my suspicions and give me some advice
« Reply #53 on: May 21, 2014, 04:34:49 AM »
Emerging from Lurkdom to chime in here.  :)

A good conversation starter might be to ask her about the church she goes to.  Something like, "I've been looking for a new church home.  I hear you go to <church name>.  What's it like?  How's the <music/preaching/community/ministry opportunity>?"  Then, as the conversation progresses, maybe work out meeting there before the service and sitting together for your first visit so that she can show you the ropes, going out to lunch afterwards, etc.

Only do this if you really ARE looking for a new church home, though.  Be who you are--authentically and honestly.  One of the things that creeps me out the most (I'm female) is inauthenticity--which is just counterproductive in the long run, just like building your house on shifting sand rather than the solid rock.

NewStachian

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Re: Ladies, please confirm my suspicions and give me some advice
« Reply #54 on: May 21, 2014, 06:36:03 AM »
A few points:

1) I told a woman on our first date all the cool stuff I found about her on Google. She thought it was hilarious. She's is now my wife.

2) The probability of finding your optimal companion or "soul mate" is negligible. However, once you've been with someone for a while, they become your soul mate because the experiences you share and the love you have for them can no longer be matched by anyone else on the planet.

3) Everything is either meant to be or not meant to be. If it already happened, it was meant to be. If it's in the future, there is no way to know if it is meant to be. If it does not come to pass, rest assured it was meant to be in another, parallel, universe.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 06:39:22 AM by NewStachian »

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Ladies, please confirm my suspicions and give me some advice
« Reply #55 on: May 21, 2014, 08:11:42 AM »

I agree with everything here with the possible exception of the last two sentences. I mean come on...mustachians know EVERYTHING. That said: a) DEFINITELY work on your self confidence. b) Get more "at bats." c) Most importantly, watch "Four Weddings and a Funeral" five times in a row. For some odd reason that movie changed my life. Seriously. My take-away from this film: If it's meant to be, everything can go wrong and it will still 'happen.' But if it's not meant to be, then everything can go right and it still won't 'happen.'

I don't agree with the "meant to be" mentality. I fully believe it is more in our control than that.

How's it going, OP? We haven't heard an update!

I tend to agree with you, but I also really liked what RapmasterD said. Even if I don't 100% believe it, I know that for me sometimes having that mindset ("if it's meant to be, it will work out even if I somehow fuck it up") is just what I need to overcome paralyzing fear/anxiety and leap into action :)

That said, I also want an update! and I love this thread! everyone is so sweet and helpful, it's awesome.

SU

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Re: Ladies, please confirm my suspicions and give me some advice
« Reply #56 on: May 24, 2014, 05:53:37 AM »
I can see there's a heap of great advice available on this forum - and I want to recommend another site that has outstanding relationship advice and has done wonders for me (I even travelled across the country to meet the author, and he is legend).

I'd start with 'Finding Mr or Ms Right' http://www.alturtle.com/archives/1065 and go from there. Here's an extract:
"Now, build a cheap and repeatable selection scheme.  What I mean is that I think you need about 4 hours in the presence of a person to let your selection process kick off.  Sure, the romantic “look across the room” does happen, but is followed up with a 4 hour or so time needed together.  Most looks across the room do not survive the 4-hour test.  So I believe you need to set up a simple, repeatable testing process at least 4 hours long.
 
During those four hours of your selection scheme, be with each other, alone.  Do not go to a movie, play, opera, as that will distract you from each other too much.  Walk in a park, by the bay, in the forest, on the beach, by the lake, have a nice coffee visit, go to a training seminar, etc.  Make it seem very safe to your guest.  It is probably a good thing to be alone, where others can see you from a distance. Experience each other and see whether both want to go further with time together.  My rule is “Have enough distractions to make things easy, but not too many.”

...

I took all my Imago candidates to a wildlife refuge for a walk in the wild.  It cost me drive time, which was a good connection time.  It cost me arranging food for lunch, which was a good connecting activity.  It cost me time.  That was it.  I kept at it through almost 16 women.  The last is my wife, and she brought little bottles of Lancers wine with her in her purse to lunch!  She was/is a “keeper.”"

... even has elements of Mustashianism (obviously the car has to be replaced with a bike, but taking your own food stays - and Future Wife brought the drinks).

Good luck!

scrubbyfish

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Re: Ladies, please confirm my suspicions and give me some advice
« Reply #57 on: May 24, 2014, 08:55:21 AM »
SU: Upon just a quick glance, that seems like a wonderful site indeed! Similar themes as MarriageBuilders.com, which I love and which I was directed to by another forum member (Melalvai). (It, too, talks about how to date.) Newly dating, I'm going to enjoy poking through it.

I'm already confounded at the four hour test, though. All the folks I've dated passed it (usually hours walking about town, chatting), which is why I continued dating them. Things went wrong well after that. I suspect there's a level of information (red flags, or my own gut or something) that I haven't been paying attention to. Probably the site talks about this, so again, I will enjoy exploring it.

Did anyone besides your now-wife pass the four hour test but your differences were discovered some subsequent weeks or months in? Or was it clear always on the first date that the first 15 were not the one?

Thanks so much for sharing this with the OP and with us all!

netskyblue

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Re: Ladies, please confirm my suspicions and give me some advice
« Reply #58 on: May 24, 2014, 09:37:07 AM »
Oh, and, honestly, I would have a hard time asking someone out in front of their teenage child. I think women know that they're being asked on a date if you ask her if she wants to get dinner "sometime" and, if she says yes, ask for her number and you'll call about a day and where to pick her up, etc. (or, you could whip out your calendars at that point, but you definitely want to exchange phone numbers in case something comes up).

This.  From my "woman's point of view."  She knows she's being asked out, there's no awkwardness of wondering was that a date invite?? And if she says no, you know she's not interested.  Everyone eats.  And IF she says no, don't take it personally, maybe she doesn't want to date for her daughter's sake, or for any number of reasons.  But at least you know, so you don't try again with a second activity and get a really awkward, second, "no."

SU

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Re: Ladies, please confirm my suspicions and give me some advice
« Reply #59 on: May 25, 2014, 01:22:57 PM »
Scrubbyfish, I'm really happy to hear that you liked the site. The blogger, Al, also posts at MarriageBuilders, under 'Turtle's Whiteboard' so you might enjoy reading what he's posted there too, and his interaction with members of the forum.

The four hour test is about whether there is a spark ie enough attraction to carry you into the romantic phase. After that, there is still work to do, and a good four hour test doesn't mean that the relationship will be issue free forever. Sorry! :)

This wasn't clear in my earlier reply but the info about the four hour test was actually a quote I took from Al's blog, so that was his story about how he met his wife - not my story. But to answer your question, there could be lots of people who pass the four hour test. Whether you have a successful relationship with one of them depends on how you apply your relationship skills once the romantic phase is over - the Map of Relationships on Al's site will tell you a lot more about that. Good luck!

scrubbyfish

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Re: Ladies, please confirm my suspicions and give me some advice
« Reply #60 on: May 26, 2014, 05:09:55 PM »
SU: Thanks for all the additional info and clarification. I've been away from the internet all weekend, and am really looking forward to delving into this stuff. My first date in four years happens (I hope) in 2 hours!

RapmasterD

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Re: Ladies, please confirm my suspicions and give me some advice
« Reply #61 on: May 26, 2014, 11:05:45 PM »

I agree with everything here with the possible exception of the last two sentences. I mean come on...mustachians know EVERYTHING. That said: a) DEFINITELY work on your self confidence. b) Get more "at bats." c) Most importantly, watch "Four Weddings and a Funeral" five times in a row. For some odd reason that movie changed my life. Seriously. My take-away from this film: If it's meant to be, everything can go wrong and it will still 'happen.' But if it's not meant to be, then everything can go right and it still won't 'happen.'

I don't agree with the "meant to be" mentality. I fully believe it is more in our control than that.

How's it going, OP? We haven't heard an update!

I tend to agree with you, but I also really liked what RapmasterD said. Even if I don't 100% believe it, I know that for me sometimes having that mindset ("if it's meant to be, it will work out even if I somehow fuck it up") is just what I need to overcome paralyzing fear/anxiety and leap into action :)

That said, I also want an update! and I love this thread! everyone is so sweet and helpful, it's awesome.


And that's my point. Of course you have 'control.' But you do not have 100% control over anything except your own mind. That other person is gonna think, feel, and do...what she is gonna think, feel, and do.

So....relax.

CestMoi

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Re: Ladies, please confirm my suspicions and give me some advice
« Reply #62 on: May 27, 2014, 01:21:42 PM »
I don't think suggesting the lady come along with you for an activity you're supposedly doing anyway is a great idea, unless you're fine with possibly having her just as a friend. When a man asks me out, I always appreciate it (and admire him all the more) when he makes it clear that he's asking me out, not playing with words to make me wonder if he's interested in me or not.

I think it's OK to get her number from a mutual friend (but not some essential stranger to her who may have access to her number, like the office worker at the charity you both attend, for example). But you could also wait until you see her again, then ask her out in person. But ask her out to dinner; it's more direct:

"Would you like to go out to dinner sometime?"

If the answer is positive, then ask for her number to make plans.
 

AlexK

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Re: Ladies, please confirm my suspicions and give me some advice
« Reply #63 on: May 27, 2014, 02:14:03 PM »
I've asked exactly 8 women out on a date (6 yes's, 2 no's) and had a total of three second dates.

Your track record is good so you must have a lot to offer in terms of looks or personality. Most women say no and it could be for a hundred different reasons. If it happens don't take it personally. I suggest asking out lots of women. Women can smell confidence or lack thereof and it's impossible to fake it. What really inspires confidence is having other dates already lined up so it really doesn't matter if they say yes or no. It's a mistake to focus on only one woman (I mean before even a first date).

When I was single it seemed like I could go months without meeting a nice woman and then all at once I would be dating 3 different great women and have to decide which one to keep around (my memory was never good enough to keep all of them). I think the fact that I had dates already boosted my confidence and the new women sensed it. 

BTW it's a mistake to ask ladies for dating advice because they will say ladies want a nice sensitive guy but they really go for the confident ones. I will get chastised for saying that but it's true.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 02:17:02 PM by AlexK »

CestMoi

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Re: Ladies, please confirm my suspicions and give me some advice
« Reply #64 on: May 27, 2014, 02:36:07 PM »
One can be sensitive AND confident; they're really not mutually exclusive. I know plenty of sensitive, confident men. :)

I love sensitivity in men, but I also appreciate confidence because it makes some things just go more smoothly. Men like confident women, too.

scrubbyfish

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Re: Ladies, please confirm my suspicions and give me some advice
« Reply #65 on: May 27, 2014, 04:44:01 PM »
One can be sensitive AND confident; they're really not mutually exclusive.

+1.

Too many guys confuse "nice" and "sensitive" with "passive" (or even part of passive-aggressive). Then they wonder why women don't like nice, sensitive guys. We do; we just don't like passive (or passive-aggressive) ones. Totally different qualities, which I too have totally confused in the past.

Like CestMoi, my preference is for a guy who is sensitive, truly nice, and confident. Happily, I think a lot of men and women have this wonderful, healthy combo.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Ladies, please confirm my suspicions and give me some advice
« Reply #66 on: May 27, 2014, 04:52:59 PM »
Life is short.  Just ask her on a date.  If she turns you down there are probably 10,000,000 more women of that age you can try.

William

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Re: Ladies, please confirm my suspicions and give me some advice
« Reply #67 on: May 27, 2014, 05:00:33 PM »
Sounds like you just need to man up already.  I'm shy too but don't you find that making a thread like this takes more time/effort than just walking up to her?

Sparkie

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Re: Ladies, please confirm my suspicions and give me some advice
« Reply #68 on: May 27, 2014, 06:47:24 PM »
As a male who's not great socially, I've found that ineptness to be quite an advantage in getting dates.  Things like 'I'm quite shit at this, so apologies in advance, but would you like to go on a date sometime' have a remarkably high success rate.

I'd always use the words 'date sometime'. It avoids friend zone confusion, and it avoids 'I would like to but can't make Friday for coffee' confusion.

If you're shy with women, why pretend not to be. You want a woman who's ok with being with a shy guy. Good luck!

Christiana

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Re: Ladies, please confirm my suspicions and give me some advice
« Reply #69 on: May 28, 2014, 08:35:34 AM »
This guy's annoying, but he's also right more often than not:  http://alphagameplan.blogspot.com  Manning up is your only hope for succeeding with this particular woman.


limeandpepper

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Re: Ladies, please confirm my suspicions and give me some advice
« Reply #70 on: May 28, 2014, 08:39:59 AM »
As a male who's not great socially, I've found that ineptness to be quite an advantage in getting dates.  Things like 'I'm quite shit at this, so apologies in advance, but would you like to go on a date sometime' have a remarkably high success rate.

I love this. It sounds like something the Hugh Grant character in Notting Hill would say.

And yes, a bit of shyness can be endearing! :)

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Ladies, please confirm my suspicions and give me some advice
« Reply #71 on: May 28, 2014, 09:17:26 AM »
As a male who's not great socially, I've found that ineptness to be quite an advantage in getting dates.  Things like 'I'm quite shit at this, so apologies in advance, but would you like to go on a date sometime' have a remarkably high success rate.

I love this. It sounds like something the Hugh Grant character in Notting Hill would say.

And yes, a bit of shyness can be endearing! :)

I agree. as a woman I would find this approach totally adorable (and not in a bad way, I realize that word may not have the exact right connotation)

Annamal

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Re: Ladies, please confirm my suspicions and give me some advice
« Reply #72 on: May 28, 2014, 01:54:37 PM »
As a male who's not great socially, I've found that ineptness to be quite an advantage in getting dates.  Things like 'I'm quite shit at this, so apologies in advance, but would you like to go on a date sometime' have a remarkably high success rate.

I love this. It sounds like something the Hugh Grant character in Notting Hill would say.

And yes, a bit of shyness can be endearing! :)



I agree. as a woman I would find this approach totally adorable (and not in a bad way, I realize that word may not have the exact right connotation)

Charming, that's the word I would go for =)
There are a lot of different ways of being confident, I'd call this pretty confident.
Of course I'm with someone where our relationship really did grow out of a genuine friendship (when we met we were both attached to other people so we got to know each-other without the pressure of there ever being anything more) so I really don't get the hatred of the concept of friendzone, at the worst you have a great new friend (who probably has a whole pool of other friends...actually a lot of dating here revolves around people within groups of friends hooking up...there's way less "date" culture and more hanging out with people).

scrubbyfish

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Re: Ladies, please confirm my suspicions and give me some advice
« Reply #73 on: May 28, 2014, 02:27:43 PM »
This guy's annoying, but he's also right more often than not:  http://alphagameplan.blogspot.com  Manning up is your only hope for succeeding with this particular woman.

This website (whose content I found horrible to the extreme, as you indicated we might) is very clear, though, that the techniques presented in it are *only* for getting disposable/casual sex with as high a number of women as possible, and absolutely *not* for pursuing a long-term, loving, mutual partnership. So, if the OP is after the latter, he is advised throughout this website not to apply its tips.

As horrific as I found the site, I must say I found it enlightening (however simultaneously heartbreaking) to see what some guys are being taught and what I -newly on the dating scene- should watch out for and run from vs "be confused" by. In my women's group this week, we brainstormed "red flags" for abuse; this site conveniently provides a very explicit, detailed list of those. Sad to see it exists, but kind of handy for those wanting to avoid becoming unwitting participants in such a "game".

Little Nell

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Re: Ladies, please confirm my suspicions and give me some advice
« Reply #74 on: May 28, 2014, 04:45:20 PM »
Female writing.

Ask her in person to join you for some specific non-romantic activity at a specific time. "I just got a new kayak/frisbee/sailboat/pass to wildlife refuge/pair of binoculars for birdwatching/coach and four"--whatever. "Would you like to sail/hike/birdwatch Saturday afternoon?" Then you can get to know her while engaged in a non-threatening activity. The other thing to do is host a group activity (brunch, a game of ultimate/croquet/bridge) and invite her. Because she might become, if not a girlfriend, a friend, who has other female friends, who might be interested.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Ladies, please confirm my suspicions and give me some advice
« Reply #75 on: May 28, 2014, 07:28:08 PM »
Because she might become, if not a girlfriend, a friend, who has other female friends, who might be interested.

Best advice here.   This is a win-win situation.   Even if she is not romantically interested in you, she probably would still like to have a friend.  Women with male friends tend to want to play matchmaker.  It seems to be in their genes or something.