Author Topic: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)  (Read 6856 times)

Jacinle

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How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« on: August 18, 2022, 03:55:36 AM »
Hi

I am irritated and annoyed by little things, but yet, they get to a point to be super annoying

I do not want to go into any discussion as it will become a discussion of why her way is better.

Now, how to train yourself to be calm and just shrug it off and say who cares?
 I have my way, you have your way period


J

Example of things that I almost felt stupid to mention - so unimportant but I cannot shake it off that makes me write a post about it ... sigh ...

Example 1: re-arranging the dishes on a dish rack after I washed the dishes
Example 2: re-arranging the laundry hanging on a line after I hanged the laundry
Example 3: un-solicited advice on the size of carrot in the soup I cooked for myself while she was away, but seen the remains in the sink.

herbgeek

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2022, 04:29:02 AM »
It depends on if this is happening in your house or hers.  I'm guessing this is your house.   If its her house, there is nothing you can do.   I guess my first approach would be to genuinely ask with curiosity why she does the stuff the way she does- perhaps there is a valid reason behind it.  You might learn something.  It might get a discussion going.  Or not, in which case you can just go into another room or outside.  I have a yoga breathing exercise that is super energizing, as well as getting out a lot of aggravation that helps me to reset when I'm annoyed.

If its just a matter of style, and what she is doing is helping you, or at least not adding additional burden, you need to remind yourself that it just doesn't matter.  I have to let my husband do chores his way, not my way.  It really doesn't matter, and everything he does means less work for me.   I find something else to occupy myself with so I'm not watching the activity as it happens. 

Metalcat

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2022, 06:08:12 AM »
None of these things in and of themselves are annoying. What's likely aggravating you is the interpersonal dynamic between you two and the fact that you experience her behaviour as disrespect.

ixtap

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2022, 07:15:11 AM »
None of these things in and of themselves are annoying. What's likely aggravating you is the interpersonal dynamic between you two and the fact that you experience her behaviour as disrespect.

Oh, I don't know, constantly having what you have done redone is pretty annoying. I have let DH know that if he is going to be like that, he can do it himself in the first place. Now he doesn't rearrange the dishes on the rare occasion when I do them and he makes an effort to be there when I fold clothes so that they are just so.

The thing is, some people do this to be controlling. Others do it because they have OCD tendencies. DH doesn't care how I fold my clothes, but he wants (nearly needs in his mind) his clothes to sit just so when put away.

For the OP, how often is Mil around? For short periods, I can pass it off as quirky and get on with my life. If you are with her regularly, you are going to have to open the lines of communication. Acknowledge that she wants things done right, but many of these things are a matter of preference. Or ask what she is trying to fix. Once in a great while, DH will have a real explanation (vs the made up BS that boils down to 'I like it this way') and so I make an effort to change. I have learned to ask "is there a reason you did that?" It validates him and opens the conversation. And sometimes, even with good communication, you just put up with it. The good communication is just meant to sort out your perception that their "just so" is a criticism of you, when it is likely their own mental crap.

Metalcat

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2022, 09:05:02 AM »
None of these things in and of themselves are annoying. What's likely aggravating you is the interpersonal dynamic between you two and the fact that you experience her behaviour as disrespect.

Oh, I don't know, constantly having what you have done redone is pretty annoying. I have let DH know that if he is going to be like that, he can do it himself in the first place. Now he doesn't rearrange the dishes on the rare occasion when I do them and he makes an effort to be there when I fold clothes so that they are just so.

The thing is, some people do this to be controlling. Others do it because they have OCD tendencies. DH doesn't care how I fold my clothes, but he wants (nearly needs in his mind) his clothes to sit just so when put away.

For the OP, how often is Mil around? For short periods, I can pass it off as quirky and get on with my life. If you are with her regularly, you are going to have to open the lines of communication. Acknowledge that she wants things done right, but many of these things are a matter of preference. Or ask what she is trying to fix. Once in a great while, DH will have a real explanation (vs the made up BS that boils down to 'I like it this way') and so I make an effort to change. I have learned to ask "is there a reason you did that?" It validates him and opens the conversation. And sometimes, even with good communication, you just put up with it. The good communication is just meant to sort out your perception that their "just so" is a criticism of you, when it is likely their own mental crap.

My point is that it all depends on the interpersonal dynamics, how the input is meant and how it's received.

I didn't say it shouldn't be annoying, I said it's not annoying in and of itself, unless the person attaches meaning to it that they aren't happy with.

My mom does this as an effort to be helpful. To her, she's genuinely just trying to make my life easier and my space better. I'm going to miss it when she's gone. Neither of us assign a negative meaning to the action, so the action isn't aggravating.

If these actions are aggravating, the important thing is to identify what's motivating the aggravation.

I'm just guessing from the dynamic of it being an MIL, and the level of frustration, that there's a significant element if disrespect going on. It's not really the action that's the problem, but the sense of disrespect behind it, coming from the MIL's intention or OP's interpretation, or more likely both.

It sounds like one adult trying to put another adult "in their place" and yeah, that's fucking aggravating.

charis

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2022, 09:16:40 AM »
None of these things in and of themselves are annoying. What's likely aggravating you is the interpersonal dynamic between you two and the fact that you experience her behaviour as disrespect.

I disagree - an action can be disrespectful and/or annoying on its own, especially unsolicited advice, even if the person is genuine.  The only (very limited) scenario in which having someone constantly redo your work is helpful is if you are not capable of satisfactorily completing or doing the task in the first place but want to attempt it for some reason.  This is a rare case.

Metalcat

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2022, 09:23:48 AM »
None of these things in and of themselves are annoying. What's likely aggravating you is the interpersonal dynamic between you two and the fact that you experience her behaviour as disrespect.

I disagree - an action can be disrespectful and/or annoying on its own, especially unsolicited advice, even if the person is genuine.  The only (very limited) scenario in which having someone constantly redo your work is helpful is if you are not capable of satisfactorily completing or doing the task in the first place but want to attempt it for some reason.  This is a rare case.

An action can be disrespectful, but my point is not to focus on whether or not these actions in an of themselves are acceptable or not.

My point is to determine what is behind the feeling of aggravation.

It doesn't matter how everyone else might feel with someone commenting on the size of their carrots, what matters is how it makes that person feel and why.

I'm not saying OP shouldn't be annoyed, I'm saying they should focus on what it is about their dynamic with their MIL that makes this so aggravating for them.

scantee

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2022, 09:33:10 AM »
This would annoy me. This DID annoy me. My mom was like this for decades and it got worse and worse as she got older. For her, it was a manifestation of her anxiety. The way she controlled her anxiety was to make sure everything was just so and once things inevitably became not just so her panic would well up.

In her 60s she started taking anxiety medication and she is like a totally different person. It has been life changing for her. She does this so much less now and when she does do it she has the self awareness to know why she is doing it and to stop herself from spiraling.

If this sounds at all familiar to you, I think it really will take medication or therapy or a combination of both to change these behaviors. The way I handled it before my mom got on her meds was to remove myself from the situation. By that I mean if would walk out of the room or leave the house when she got like this. I would not say anything as you can’t reason with someone in an anxiety spiral. And only visit her on her turf because that was when she was least anxious.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2022, 10:40:11 AM »
I have a couple words of wisdom that I've heard from other, more famous people:

1) "Don't sweat the small stuff.   And it's all small stuff."  Are MIL's actions making your life worse in a concrete way, e.g. do you have to do things again after she redoes your work?  If not, then ignore it.  If it *is* making your life worse, then....
2) ...set boundaries.  Recognize the effort to help, explain how it's not actually helpful, and suggest an alternative.  As an example, "Thanks for helping fold the laundry!  DH is actually very particular about how his t-shirts go in the drawer, so could I show you how to fold it to his taste?"
3) Don't take offense.  "He who takes offense when it is not intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when it *is* intended is a *great* fool."  If MIL isn't trying to cause you grief, it's not worth bothering.  If she *is* trying to cause trouble, call it out and set boundaries, but don't let her make the situation about you.

Zikoris

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2022, 10:59:44 AM »
Have you ever just flat-out said, "Please stop doing (X specific thing), I don't like it", followed up with some version of "Hey remember how we talked about this and you agreed not to? What's going on?". Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.

Personally, I don't allow people to come into my home and piss me off. I've straight up told people they're not allowed into my home anymore because of their past behaviour. Doesn't mean we can't have a relationship, but it will happen outside of my home.

reeshau

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2022, 11:00:52 AM »

Example of things that I almost felt stupid to mention - so unimportant but I cannot shake it off that makes me write a post about it ... sigh ...

Example 1: re-arranging the dishes on a dish rack after I washed the dishes
Example 2: re-arranging the laundry hanging on a line after I hanged the laundry
Example 3: un-solicited advice on the size of carrot in the soup I cooked for myself while she was away, but seen the remains in the sink.

OP, is it the *doing* that gets on your nerves, or the commentary that goes along with it?  I see example 3 as being only the latter.  Are the first two only the former, or is there some of both?

I had a grandma with OCD tendencies.  She was a careful gardener, but then would also hand weed her yard.  As she got older, my Mom (a licensed social worker) would help her clean her house, and she insisted on scrubbing the kitchen floor on hands and knees--no handled mop allowed!  Mom was not so young herself, and it took a long time to change that.

My FIL also tends this way.  Our former house had a library.  A full room--we are big readers, and had the space.  DW asked him for another shelf one time while he was visiting--he liked to putter around our house, too.  On replacing the shelf, he proceeded to rearrange THE WHOLE LIBRARY by the size of the books, as he had the 2 or 3 shelves in his office arranged, rather than by category, as we had it.  DW knew I would blow a gasket, so simply met me at the door, and told me she would fix it after they left.

It's one thing if the loved one simply wastes their own time on these things.  Going back to the first examples, is it a big deal to you that the dishes or laundry are in a different order?  Does it cost you more time when you take care of them?  If it does not cause you to waste time, then it shouldn't be a big deal.  Or maybe you have a touch of the same tendencies.

When it comes to controlling or trying to influence what you spend your time on, that can lead to much more toxic things, and might need the pain of correction--either changing the behavior, or eliminating the circumstances where it comes up.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2022, 11:02:42 AM by reeshau »

kite

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2022, 11:09:53 AM »
Go for a run.

Was going to ask if weed gummies were an option where you are (only somewhat sarcastically).

I have a MIL just like this, so I sympathize.  In my experience, there is no middle-ground, there is no compromise. She has her way that is not the same as mine and we aren't ever going to align or see eye-to-eye. Yes, she has also re-hung the laundry.  The last time she was "helping" me in the kitchen, she dropped her cane on my foot. I'd said "no thanks" a few times, that I didn't need her help. Then boom. And so I limped away, leaving her and tending to the bruise on the top of my instep.

My go to strategy is walking away. I will ignore inappropriate comments (like the carrot thing) or better, just let it hang there in a long silence. And when a number of these things pile up, I get physically absent.

My MIL wants to be helpful & useful.  I don't want to argue with her. Creating distance works wonders. I go for a run.

A few times on my run, I've reflected on the difference in our lives. She had a far more challenging childhood including a teen pregnancy that spurred an early marriage to a man who was an abusive alcoholic.  He was not the rapist who'd gotten her pregnant. Everyone thought of him as the savior for marrying this pregnant teen.  He rescued her 60 years ago from certain shame. So she couldn't leave him. She had no chance of college or professional opportunity, and lived below the poverty line until her children were grown. She looks at me with advanced degrees, lucrative career, a large & loving family and none of the hardship she endured. She's envious, and it makes her feel better about herself to act as though I'm clueless regarding household chores.  I get a mile or so in and then I head back. 

Miss Piggy

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2022, 11:46:55 AM »
Example 1: re-arranging the dishes on a dish rack after I washed the dishes
Example 2: re-arranging the laundry hanging on a line after I hanged the laundry
Example 3: un-solicited advice on the size of carrot in the soup I cooked for myself while she was away, but seen the remains in the sink.

Call me petty, but I'd be tempted to re-re-arrange what she just re-arranged...back to the way I originally had it. By the third time, she should get the hint.

That said, other people's thoughts above are much better than mine.

BlueHouse

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2022, 02:29:19 PM »
"He who takes offense when it is not intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when it *is* intended is a *great* fool."

Brilliant.  I need to remmeber this one!

Samuel

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2022, 02:45:16 PM »
“The enemy is the necessary condition for practicing patience. Without an enemy’s action, there is no possibility for patience or tolerance to arise. Our friends do not ordinarily test us and provide the opportunity to cultivate patience; only our enemies do this. So, from this standpoint we can consider our enemy as a great teacher, and revere them for giving us this precious opportunity to practice patience”  - The Dalai Lama in The Art of Happiness


Metalcat

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2022, 02:53:44 PM »
For me, the answer to your question of how to shrug it off is to feel sorry for her. No matter why she does what she does (I thought @scantee  and @kite both had really good insights for possible reasons), I'd feel sorry for her that she is compelled to act that way. Even if there are no 'good' reasons and she is just a grade A pain in the ass, I'd feel sorry that this is the relationship she has chosen to have with her child's chosen spouse. I will also admit it's easier to do when I'm well-rested.

Good luck to you (and your spouse). I hope you'll post an update.

I still think it all comes down to *why* the behaviour is aggravating

If the MIL means to be disrespectful, then it's quite reasonable to be aggravated, and feeling sad for her that she's chosen to have such a crappy dynamic with her own daughter in law is probably the wisest way to approach her.

If on the off chance, this is how she shows love, by nattering and nitpicking, like my mom does, then the key would be to learn that person's weird love language.

If it's someone who is operating from a place of their own anxious neuroses, then compassion is in order.

In truth, it could be a blend of all sorts of factors

No matter what, the first step is always to understand. Understand why they're doing it, but more importantly, understand why it's aggravating.

Zamboni

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2022, 03:34:53 PM »
Here's the thing:

Not sure your gender, but nearly all women are annoyed by their MIL. And my experiences listening to older women discuss things amongst themselves show a lot of them are either annoyed by things their DIL does or they just don't like her for some random reason or another. A lot of it is jealousy, I think, that this new woman gets to spend so much time with their beloved son and/or their grandchildren. When my older friends' children starting getting married, I was appalled at what some of them said about their child's choice of life partner. Most of their criticisms are very petty, but it brought out vitriol in these ladies I had not seen before.

So she may just be OCD or have anxiety and uses this rearranging as a coping mechanism. Or she may very well have a superiority complex or an inferiority complex or jealousy in terms of her relationship to you.

Be assured that you are not crazy to be annoyed by her, and that what you are going through is actually a pretty normal state of things. You've gotten some good advice here about how to cope with it or deal with it more head on.

big_owl

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2022, 04:27:54 PM »
Just don't do any of the chores when she comes over and maybe she'll just do them all for you.  Don't wash the dishes, let her do it and put them away. 

This would annoy the shit out of me if my MIL did this.  It's my fucking house, it's my shit, I want it done a certain way.  Go sit at the table MIL.

JupiterGreen

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2022, 05:06:40 PM »
I'm reading The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F#ck (again), it's not the best book I've ever read but it has a lot of great reminders in it so I'm re-reading it for that reason. One of the things that comes up in the book is: What metrics are you using to define success? In your case are you allowing you MIL's values to define yours? MIL doesn't think you've done something successfully and feels compelled to re-do it, but those are her values not yours. So instead of being annoyed by her (provided she's not making more work for you), take a minute to try to understand why she is annoying you. This might be what @Malcat is saying too. Are you internalizing your MIL's values/standards? Or maybe it's something else, either way it's worth thinking about. Whatever it is, it's good to remind yourself that the only metrics that matter are your own.

It could be about control. I wish what @Zamboni said wasn't true, but I have also seen this from time to time. Because of the patriarchy "women's domain" is about the size of a bathtub. When you force a subset of the population into a small corner to micromanage all the menial tasks, they can get territorial about these things (since they have been taught this is the only value they have to society). There is a lot more to it than that, but I'm sure most of you wise people can pick up what I'm putting down.

I was intrigued by what @scantee said about anxiety. Even if your MIL is perfectly well in this regard, it might be helpful to think of her as sick. This might allow you to look at her with compassion and shrug it off.

Metalcat

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2022, 05:28:10 PM »
I'm reading The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F#ck (again), it's not the best book I've ever read but it has a lot of great reminders in it so I'm re-reading it for that reason. One of the things that comes up in the book is: What metrics are you using to define success? In your case are you allowing you MIL's values to define yours? MIL doesn't think you've done something successfully and feels compelled to re-do it, but those are her values not yours. So instead of being annoyed by her (provided she's not making more work for you), take a minute to try to understand why she is annoying you. This might be what @Malcat is saying too. Are you internalizing your MIL's values/standards? Or maybe it's something else, either way it's worth thinking about. Whatever it is, it's good to remind yourself that the only metrics that matter are your own.

It could be about control. I wish what @Zamboni said wasn't true, but I have also seen this from time to time. Because of the patriarchy "women's domain" is about the size of a bathtub. When you force a subset of the population into a small corner to micromanage all the menial tasks, they can get territorial about these things (since they have been taught this is the only value they have to society). There is a lot more to it than that, but I'm sure most of you wise people can pick up what I'm putting down.

I was intrigued by what @scantee said about anxiety. Even if your MIL is perfectly well in this regard, it might be helpful to think of her as sick. This might allow you to look at her with compassion and shrug it off.

I'm really not saying anything beyond that OP should try to first understand why they get aggravated by this behaviour.

Until I know that, I can't really comment in any kind of useful way.

@Jacinle why do *you* think she does this? And why does it aggravate you?

Jacinle

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2022, 05:33:55 PM »
Thanks all. 

Not sure if it is about OCD but she repeatly asks to follow her way, and that is the ONLY holy grails to hang clothes, line dishes, cook a soup etc.  As a tests, I ask serveral of my friends how they cook the soup'(without given any context of why I ask) and all have slightly different ways so I don't think it's golden.

@Malcat, I think I understand.  As I was hanging clothes with Father in law, he said you had to do it this way or you would get a scold/talk by MIL.  To be honest, given the recent heatwave/drought, everything will dry no matter how you hang it.  She will just repeatedly sweetly said that's how she had been doing for 900 years and you should follow or the clothes won't dry, soup won't be tasty ......

I did not try to disobey, but I am just on autopilot and my habit is that way.   MIL throw a tantrum saying she had to do everything if we didn't do it, but then like a teacher (which was her profession) and 'correct' everything.  And then what the point for us to do it.
Why it was so aggravating?  Felt being belittled and inferior.  I am 40 years old and I can't hang my laundry?  I can't cook a soup in the way I like in my home for MYSELF only (for context, they were out so I cooked my own lunch, I was working so haven't washed the dishes and the remains were discovered when they came back; I DIDNT cook at all when they come)

Learnings
1) From @kite, step away, go running
2)  From @zolotiyeruki, try not to sweat over small things, which is hard, for example
3) He who takes offense when it is not intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when it *is* intended is a *great* fool.
4)  From @Zamboni, Be assured that you are not crazy to be annoyed by her, and that what you are going through is actually a pretty normal state of things; Obviously I couldn't accept my feelings and need to write a long post to hope getting some justification that I could felt that way
5) From @JupiterGreen - Do not let MIL values define me and I DO NOT need to seek her approval; [if I didn't cook soup twice a week does it make me a bad mum?]
6) Well, people have a lot of different ideas about things



I did have a breakdown tonight over dinner.

They went out for lunch and got a take away duck dish from the restaurant.  I did not eat duck but eat pork, chicken, beef, lamb, fish, seafood etc etc.  (not too difficult)
When I finished work and came home for dinner, I only found the duck dish, boiled vegetables and tiny leftover from yesterday. 
I gather some boiled vegetables, leftover and ate silently in my room as I was so angry and sad.  I then went out for a walk.  I cried in the park.  I felt hungry.  I thought about going to town to grab something but gave up.

Learnings - no expectations - Am I too naive to think they would bought back some of my favourite food ?  Or at least something I could eat ?
[For context, they all knew, and this is the second time happening in a month.  I am the only one working, so I think it's fair they do the cooking.  I did all the cleaning chores of the house and gardening]


As always, thanks for reading such a long post!
J
« Last Edit: August 19, 2022, 02:25:42 AM by Jacinle »

zolotiyeruki

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2022, 06:06:29 PM »
Not sure if it is about OCD but she repeatly asks to follow her way, and that is the ONLY holy grails to hang clothes, line dishes, cook a soup etc.  As a tests, I ask serveral of my friends how they cook the soup'(without given any context of why I ask) and all have slightly different ways so I don't think it's golden.

@Malcat, I think I understand.  As I was hanging clothes with Father in law, he said you had to do it this way or you would get a scold/talk by MIL.  To be honest, given the recent heatwave/drought, everything will dry no matter how you hang it.  She will just repeatedly sweetly said that's how she had been doing for 900 years and you should follow or the clothes won't dry, soup won't be tasty ......

I did not try to disobey, but I am just on autopilot and my habit is that way.   MIL throw a tantrum saying she had to do everything if we didn't do it, but then like a teacher (which was her profession) and 'correct' everything.  And then what the point for us to do it.
Why it was so aggravating?  Felt being belittled and inferior.  I am 40 years old and I can't hang my laundry?  I can't cook a soup in the way I like in my home for MYSELF only (for context, they were out so I cooked my own lunch, I was working so haven't washed the dishes and the remains were discovered when they came back; I DIDNT cook at all when they come)
As you say, you do not need her approval. She no longer holds any authority over you, so there is no "obeying" or "disobeying," there is only "doing it the same way" (or not), or perhaps "granting a request."

If MIL didn't eat the soup, then your manner of preparing it is none of her business.  If she's not wearing the clothes you hang up, then your manner of hanging them on the clothesline is none of her business.  From what you've described, it sounds like you need to set and enforce some boundaries with her.  Maybe gently at first: "Like I said earlier, dear mother in law, I think the soup turned out quite nicely.  This is now the third time you have brought up the subject.  Is there a reason for that?"  and if it persists, "dear mother in law, this is the fifth time you have brought up the subject of my soup, and I have respectfully and patiently responded each time.  Please do not bring it up again."

On the subject of the duck, here's my thinking:  don't take offense.  If it was on accident or due to thoughtlessness, there's nothing to be accomplished by getting upset.  If it was an intentional slight, then it's bullying, and she (or they) are attempting to assert dominance i.e. gain influence/authority over you.  Getting upset only plays into their hands.

Here's another wise quip from someone else that seems appropriate: "The best revenge is a life well-lived."  Be happy, confident, and independent in spite of MIL's behavior, whether it is intended to be offensive or not.

Metalcat

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2022, 06:09:16 PM »
Thanks all. 

Not sure if it is about OCD but she repeatly asks to follow her way, and that is the ONLY holy grails to hang clothes, line dishes, cook a soup etc.  As a tests, I ask serveral of my friends how they cook the soup'(without given any context of why I ask) and all have slightly different ways so I don't think it's golden.

@Malcat, I think I understand.  As I was hanging clothes with Father in law, he said you had to do it this way or you would get a scold/talk by MIL.  To be honest, given the recent heatwave/drought, everything will dry no matter how you hang it.  She will just repeatedly sweetly said that's how she had been doing for 900 years and you should follow or the clothes won't dry, soup won't be tasty ......

I did not try to disobey, but I am just on autopilot and my habit is that way.   MIL throw a tantrum saying she had to do everything if we didn't do it, but then like a teacher (which was her profession) and 'correct' everything.  And then what the point for us to do it.
Why it was so aggravating?  Felt being belittled and inferior.  I am 40 years old and I can't hang my laundry?  I can't cook a soup in the way I like in my home for MYSELF only (for context, they were out so I cooked my own lunch, I was working so haven't washed the dishes and the remains were discovered when they came back; I DIDNT cook at all when they come)

Learnings
1) From @kite, step away, go running
2)  From @zolotiyeruki, try not to sweat over small things, which is hard, for example
3) He who takes offense when it is not intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when it *is* intended is a *great* fool.

4)  From @Zamboni, Be assured that you are not crazy to be annoyed by her, and that what you are going through is actually a pretty normal state of things; Obviously I couldn't accept my feelings and need to write a long post to hope getting some justification that I could felt that way
5) From @JupiterGreen - Do not let MIL values define me and I DO NOT need to seek her approval; [if I didn't cook soup twice a week does it make me a bad mum?]


I did have a breakdown tonight over dinner.

They went out for lunch and got a take away duck dish from the restaurant.  I did not eat duck but eat pork, chicken, beef, lamb, fish, seafood etc etc.  (not too difficult)
When I finished work and came home for dinner, I only found the duck dish, boiled vegetables and tiny leftover from yesterday. 
I gather some boiled vegetables, leftover and ate silently in my room as I was so angry and sad.  I then went out for a walk.  I cried in the park.  I felt hungry.  I thought about going to town to grab something but gave up.

Learnings - no expectations - Am I too naive to think they would bought back some of my favourite food ?  Or at least something I could eat ?
[For context, they all knew, and this is the second time happening in a month.  I am the only one working, so I think it's fair they do the cooking.  I did all the cleaning chores of the house and gardening]


As always, thanks for reading such a long post!
J

Okay, so it seems like she does this with everyone, no matter how much she loves them. Her own husband is wary of her neurotic controlling behaviour, which sounds pretty downright irrational.

And yet, you internalize it and take is personally. You let it make you feel small.

Why?

There's nothing you can really do to avoid her "helpful" criticisms. If her own husband can't avoid them, then why do you take them as any kind of reflection on you?

Another question: do you feel loved by her?

She obviously does this to people she loves, but I have no way of knowing from what you've said if you feel loved by her?

Do you?

I have an in-law, not an MIL, she died before I was in the picture, but worse, a big sister who acts like an MIL. She's kind of a miserable cow, and criticizes everyone. She does that no matter how much she loves someone, her own son gets it as bad as everyone else.

But she doesn't love me. She doesn't even like me. So I don't interpret it as loving. But I also don't take it personally either. She's hateful because she's a miserable person, and that's a her problem, not a me problem.

Now my mom on the other hand nitpicks so much of what I do, but for her, it's a loving thing, it's how she shows she cares. It's annoying, but I know it's not meant to belittle me at all, so I just smile, roll my eyes, and say "yes mom."

I share these two extreme examples to make a point. There's the intent of the action and then there's your reaction to it.

What do you think your MIL wants you to feel when she does this? Do you feel like you have any control over how you respond to her?

Also, just curious...where is your spouse in all of this?

Villanelle

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2022, 06:29:14 PM »
"I noticed you rearrange the dishes in the drying rack.  I just wanted to let you know that if you need to do that to feel comfortable, go right ahead.  It's such a small thing and makes no difference at all to me, so I wanted to mention it in case you worried I'd have a problem with it."

I like to meet passive aggression with passive aggression.  Instead of engaging in the battle, not only do you not give her the rise she probably wants, you subtly say that it is such a small, petty thing for her to be concerned about.

(I wouldn't do this if it was her house, where she has every right to do these things.  I assuming this is your house and she doesn't live there.)

Zamboni

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2022, 09:22:59 PM »
There is a reddit forum that might help you called Just No Mother in Law (r/JUSTNOMIL). It has lots of crazy stories about MIL behavior, as well as strategies to deal with it. MIL's can truly be obnoxious. There are definitely patterns of nasty behavior by MIL's and also patterns of successful ways to not let it affect your happiness as much.

MIL's who are bossy and annoying about little nothings like how to cut up carrots often become unbearable if grandchildren enter the picture. Best to diplomatically establish that you will not tolerate her telling you how to do things sooner rather than later if you can. Your spouse should listen carefully to how you are feeling and support you in this, so please communicate to your spouse.

My brother has a very diplomatic way of saying "Well, people have a lot of different ideas about things" to shrug off unsolicited advice. easier said that done.

Hula Hoop

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2022, 08:17:19 AM »
Here's the thing:

Not sure your gender, but nearly all women are annoyed by their MIL. And my experiences listening to older women discuss things amongst themselves show a lot of them are either annoyed by things their DIL does or they just don't like her for some random reason or another. A lot of it is jealousy, I think, that this new woman gets to spend so much time with their beloved son and/or their grandchildren. When my older friends' children starting getting married, I was appalled at what some of them said about their child's choice of life partner. Most of their criticisms are very petty, but it brought out vitriol in these ladies I had not seen before.

So she may just be OCD or have anxiety and uses this rearranging as a coping mechanism. Or she may very well have a superiority complex or an inferiority complex or jealousy in terms of her relationship to you.

Be assured that you are not crazy to be annoyed by her, and that what you are going through is actually a pretty normal state of things. You've gotten some good advice here about how to cope with it or deal with it more head on.

This is horrifying.  I have plenty of friends who complain about their MILs but I didn't know that it was so common for the MILs to also dislike their DILs.  I was under the impression that the annoying stuff that they did was out of selfishness rather than outright malice.  I don't get the jealousy though.  We have two young daughters.  Will I be jealous of their future partners like these friends of yours?  Or is only the mothers of sons who act like this? 

Anyway my own late MIL was always nice to me but we only saw each other a couple of times a year and my husband left home at 18 (unusual here) and had most definitely cut the apron strings. My husband got married and had kids late so she always said that she was just so happy to see her son happy with me.  He is a fantastic dad and has always loved kids (was a great uncle before having his own kids) so she was also so glad that he got to experience fatherhood.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2022, 08:20:24 AM by Hula Hoop »

lifeandlimb

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2022, 08:41:45 AM »
It can feel disrespectful when someone comes into your property and implies their way is THE way to handle the house. While I do understand where you are coming from, consider that none of this may be about you. Given your follow-up info, your MIL was a teacher and has built a lifetime habit of being pedantic, even to her husband. She is not being pedantic at you, she is simply who she is. You cannot expect people to change, especially ones who have already lived a long time. As people become older, they often seek more small ways to make themselves feel useful when they know they are slowly losing authority and relevance. There may be reasons behind their behavior.

Ask yourself: while frustrating, does her rearranging the laundry or dishes extremely negatively impact your ability to live or function? If so, ask her politely but firmly to stop that thing. If it's not destructive to your life, perhaps just let her do it. Pick your battles. Maybe on one matter you can express yourself, but for something else it's best to exercise compassion and remain silent.

I'm sorry you felt upset over dinner, but from your telling, you never asked them to bring home anything for you to eat specifically, so while what they did was a little thoughtless, the intent may not have been malicious. Ask for what you need; otherwise, how will people know what you need?

Something about your post suggests you feel unappreciated or under-noticed. Can you explore what other factors may be contributing to this? As someone else mentioned, where is your spouse in this picture? Are you spending too much time at home while the others go out? It may be complicated, but worth trying to understand.

Lastly, it sounds generic, but meditation helped me a great deal with these kinds of personal interactions. I really liked the introductory course from Waking Up (which is just a 5-10 minute guided meditation audio clip each day). It helped me practice just existing and letting things wash over me, and not feel so much that I was the center/target of unpleasant experiences.

sonofsven

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2022, 09:20:58 AM »
What I do, and it's not for everyone, is turn it into a big joke by being a super, even borderline offensive, smartass.
For example, next time you hang clothes proclaim loudly and in front of others, ideally, that MIL hangs all the clothes because everyone else is too stupid to do it right. Same thing with the soup. Sane thing with the dishes. Go over the top smart ass: " Only MIL has the incredible skill needed to safely cut carrots to the proper size, here's the knife, THANKS FOR HELPING", etc.
Every time MIL wants to give advice  just have her do it and walk away, not in anger but in happiness. "We're so lucky to have you, you do all the work we're too stupid to do!"
If you can make her laugh as part of the group at some of her crazy ways it's a start. And it shows you're not afraid of her opinons in that it's not going to make you question yourself, it's going to make you poke fun at her.


Sandi_k

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2022, 09:26:58 AM »
What I do, and it's not for everyone, is turn it into a big joke by being a super, even borderline offensive, smartass.
For example, next time you hang clothes proclaim loudly and in front of others, ideally, that MIL hangs all the clothes because everyone else is too stupid to do it right. Same thing with the soup. Sane thing with the dishes. Go over the top smart ass: " Only MIL has the incredible skill needed to safely cut carrots to the proper size, here's the knife, THANKS FOR HELPING", etc.
Every time MIL wants to give advice  just have her do it and walk away, not in anger but in happiness. "We're so lucky to have you, you do all the work we're too stupid to do!"
If you can make her laugh as part of the group at some of her crazy ways it's a start. And it shows you're not afraid of her opinons in that it's not going to make you question yourself, it's going to make you poke fun at her.

Yeah, that approach won't work with any woman over 65 that I know. This sounds like a possible avenue if you want to hear YES if you ask "AITA?" This is the problem with the passive aggressive approach, with which my MIL excels. If you confront it loudly, or harshly, everyone swings their judgment to YOU. And it does not help or aid future interactions at all.

I'll go even further, and say that this is a culturally American-male response. If the OP's MIL is from another culture and not native-born American (which sounds to be the case), this sort of cultural insensitivity is exactly the wrong approach.

If the OP wants to solve it, then her spouse needs to tell HIS mother that it is uncomfortable for them BOTH to have her walking all over BOTH of them in THEIR house, and she needs to stop it. She should only assist when asked, because they want to be able to do things their own way in their own space.

If the spouse is too trained by his mother to stand up to her - gently, but firmly - then the OP will be dealing with this on her own, and any reflexive response she makes will be seen as over the top.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2022, 09:28:57 AM by Sandi_k »

Metalcat

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2022, 10:42:24 AM »
Here's the thing:

Not sure your gender, but nearly all women are annoyed by their MIL. And my experiences listening to older women discuss things amongst themselves show a lot of them are either annoyed by things their DIL does or they just don't like her for some random reason or another. A lot of it is jealousy, I think, that this new woman gets to spend so much time with their beloved son and/or their grandchildren. When my older friends' children starting getting married, I was appalled at what some of them said about their child's choice of life partner. Most of their criticisms are very petty, but it brought out vitriol in these ladies I had not seen before.

So she may just be OCD or have anxiety and uses this rearranging as a coping mechanism. Or she may very well have a superiority complex or an inferiority complex or jealousy in terms of her relationship to you.

Be assured that you are not crazy to be annoyed by her, and that what you are going through is actually a pretty normal state of things. You've gotten some good advice here about how to cope with it or deal with it more head on.

This is horrifying.  I have plenty of friends who complain about their MILs but I didn't know that it was so common for the MILs to also dislike their DILs.  I was under the impression that the annoying stuff that they did was out of selfishness rather than outright malice.  I don't get the jealousy though.  We have two young daughters.  Will I be jealous of their future partners like these friends of yours?  Or is only the mothers of sons who act like this? 

Anyway my own late MIL was always nice to me but we only saw each other a couple of times a year and my husband left home at 18 (unusual here) and had most definitely cut the apron strings. My husband got married and had kids late so she always said that she was just so happy to see her son happy with me.  He is a fantastic dad and has always loved kids (was a great uncle before having his own kids) so she was also so glad that he got to experience fatherhood.

Look up the phenomenon of MILs wearing full on wedding dresses to their sons weddings. It's a thing, I've seen it personally 3 times.

Some mothers can have seriously fucking deranged relationships with their sons. I saw a lot of this with parents of my child patients, and I've seen it with some of the moms of the men I've dated.

I can't tell you how unsettling it is to have a tipsy mom describe her adult own son as "so fucking sexy" while she runs her hands through his hair. I wish I could mentally bleach those experiences from my brain, but the things I've seen with moms and their child sons since have shown me that this obsession can start very early.

There's one mom who always brought in her 3 year old son and her 4 year old daughter together. The daughter was perfectly behaved and the mom basically ignored her. The son was a holy terror, but whenever she got mad at him, he would smother her face with kisses, and she would start saying "OMG, isn't he just perfect! He's so perfect! Look how he flirts with me! He's the perfect man!"
Fucking disturbing.

So yeah, there's a certain non-zero percentage of the population of moms who get extremely territorial about their adult sons, and won't ever accept any other woman displacing them as "good enough."

sonofsven

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2022, 11:52:11 AM »
What I do, and it's not for everyone, is turn it into a big joke by being a super, even borderline offensive, smartass.
For example, next time you hang clothes proclaim loudly and in front of others, ideally, that MIL hangs all the clothes because everyone else is too stupid to do it right. Same thing with the soup. Sane thing with the dishes. Go over the top smart ass: " Only MIL has the incredible skill needed to safely cut carrots to the proper size, here's the knife, THANKS FOR HELPING", etc.
Every time MIL wants to give advice  just have her do it and walk away, not in anger but in happiness. "We're so lucky to have you, you do all the work we're too stupid to do!"
If you can make her laugh as part of the group at some of her crazy ways it's a start. And it shows you're not afraid of her opinons in that it's not going to make you question yourself, it's going to make you poke fun at her.

Yeah, that approach won't work with any woman over 65 that I know. This sounds like a possible avenue if you want to hear YES if you ask "AITA?" This is the problem with the passive aggressive approach, with which my MIL excels. If you confront it loudly, or harshly, everyone swings their judgment to YOU. And it does not help or aid future interactions at all.

I'll go even further, and say that this is a culturally American-male response. If the OP's MIL is from another culture and not native-born American (which sounds to be the case), this sort of cultural insensitivity is exactly the wrong approach.

If the OP wants to solve it, then her spouse needs to tell HIS mother that it is uncomfortable for them BOTH to have her walking all over BOTH of them in THEIR house, and she needs to stop it. She should only assist when asked, because they want to be able to do things their own way in their own space.

If the spouse is too trained by his mother to stand up to her - gently, but firmly - then the OP will be dealing with this on her own, and any reflexive response she makes will be seen as over the top.
I'll just say, it's all in the delivery, and you know different women over 65 than I do. If someone is disrespecting you without push back you can expect them to continue, and you don't need a spouse to stand up for yourself.

Metalcat

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2022, 12:20:50 PM »
What I do, and it's not for everyone, is turn it into a big joke by being a super, even borderline offensive, smartass.
For example, next time you hang clothes proclaim loudly and in front of others, ideally, that MIL hangs all the clothes because everyone else is too stupid to do it right. Same thing with the soup. Sane thing with the dishes. Go over the top smart ass: " Only MIL has the incredible skill needed to safely cut carrots to the proper size, here's the knife, THANKS FOR HELPING", etc.
Every time MIL wants to give advice  just have her do it and walk away, not in anger but in happiness. "We're so lucky to have you, you do all the work we're too stupid to do!"
If you can make her laugh as part of the group at some of her crazy ways it's a start. And it shows you're not afraid of her opinons in that it's not going to make you question yourself, it's going to make you poke fun at her.

Yeah, that approach won't work with any woman over 65 that I know. This sounds like a possible avenue if you want to hear YES if you ask "AITA?" This is the problem with the passive aggressive approach, with which my MIL excels. If you confront it loudly, or harshly, everyone swings their judgment to YOU. And it does not help or aid future interactions at all.

I'll go even further, and say that this is a culturally American-male response. If the OP's MIL is from another culture and not native-born American (which sounds to be the case), this sort of cultural insensitivity is exactly the wrong approach.

If the OP wants to solve it, then her spouse needs to tell HIS mother that it is uncomfortable for them BOTH to have her walking all over BOTH of them in THEIR house, and she needs to stop it. She should only assist when asked, because they want to be able to do things their own way in their own space.

If the spouse is too trained by his mother to stand up to her - gently, but firmly - then the OP will be dealing with this on her own, and any reflexive response she makes will be seen as over the top.
I'll just say, it's all in the delivery, and you know different women over 65 than I do. If someone is disrespecting you without push back you can expect them to continue, and you don't need a spouse to stand up for yourself.

Just FYI, a lot of the time, it is recommended that the partner who is related to the problematic family member be the one to handle their family. It's not about either partner not being able to "stand up for themselves," it's about creating boundaries.

I never, ever confront DH's bitchy older sister despite the fact that I am perfectly comfortable standing up for myself. She's DH's turf and he's the one who handles her. I'm not touching that mess with a ten foot pole. Not my family, not my circus, not my fucking monkeys.

Sibley

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2022, 12:26:00 PM »
Well, probably don't lose your temper and throw her out of the house.

More helpfully, where's your spouse in this? This is not your mother. She is driving you nuts, a good spouse would wish to change this pattern. My grandmother was a nightmare to my mother, and my dad stood up for mom every time.

Zikoris

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2022, 12:35:42 PM »
Well, probably don't lose your temper and throw her out of the house.

More helpfully, where's your spouse in this? This is not your mother. She is driving you nuts, a good spouse would wish to change this pattern. My grandmother was a nightmare to my mother, and my dad stood up for mom every time.

Counterpoint - if more people reacted to these people's bullshit with an immediate ass-kick out the door, I guarantee you they would smarten up and learn to act like a reasonable person when visiting someone.

Villanelle

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2022, 12:51:45 PM »
What I do, and it's not for everyone, is turn it into a big joke by being a super, even borderline offensive, smartass.
For example, next time you hang clothes proclaim loudly and in front of others, ideally, that MIL hangs all the clothes because everyone else is too stupid to do it right. Same thing with the soup. Sane thing with the dishes. Go over the top smart ass: " Only MIL has the incredible skill needed to safely cut carrots to the proper size, here's the knife, THANKS FOR HELPING", etc.
Every time MIL wants to give advice  just have her do it and walk away, not in anger but in happiness. "We're so lucky to have you, you do all the work we're too stupid to do!"
If you can make her laugh as part of the group at some of her crazy ways it's a start. And it shows you're not afraid of her opinons in that it's not going to make you question yourself, it's going to make you poke fun at her.

Yeah, that approach won't work with any woman over 65 that I know. This sounds like a possible avenue if you want to hear YES if you ask "AITA?" This is the problem with the passive aggressive approach, with which my MIL excels. If you confront it loudly, or harshly, everyone swings their judgment to YOU. And it does not help or aid future interactions at all.

I'll go even further, and say that this is a culturally American-male response. If the OP's MIL is from another culture and not native-born American (which sounds to be the case), this sort of cultural insensitivity is exactly the wrong approach.

If the OP wants to solve it, then her spouse needs to tell HIS mother that it is uncomfortable for them BOTH to have her walking all over BOTH of them in THEIR house, and she needs to stop it. She should only assist when asked, because they want to be able to do things their own way in their own space.

If the spouse is too trained by his mother to stand up to her - gently, but firmly - then the OP will be dealing with this on her own, and any reflexive response she makes will be seen as over the top.
I'll just say, it's all in the delivery, and you know different women over 65 than I do. If someone is disrespecting you without push back you can expect them to continue, and you don't need a spouse to stand up for yourself.

As Mal said, it's not about needing a spouse to stand up for you.  Criticism is oftem much better received from "inside", and from someone with whom the person has a good relationship.  Or at least someone they respect, which it sounds like the MIL does not feel toward the DIL.

And it isn't about gender roles. DH has an incredible relationship with my family, and vice versa.  My parents adore him and he has a closer relationship with them than with his own blood family.  But if there is something significant that needs to be addressed, generally I will have that conversation because they are my family.  It just works better and is more comfortable that way for everyone.  He doesn't need me to stand up for him, but a teammates we prioritize and delegate as makes sense. It makes more sense for me to address my family in many cases. 

Jacinle

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #35 on: August 19, 2022, 01:13:03 PM »
@Malcat
Why indeed?

As a lot of you pointed out, it really did not affect my life in any significant way. Whether my underpant is on a hanger (MIL's way) or on the wire with a peg (my way).
I felt the laundry is screaming out the message loudly from MIL, I AM BETTER, I KNEW MORE.
Now, am I clouded by my depression?  I reflected deeply and think I have enough datapoints to support that belief. 

In @lifeandlimb's words, yes I felt under-appreciated and un-noticed. 

Dear spouse think I overhtink, over-react.  So my unhappy and anguish feelings are  all on me and un-justified. 

Re: duck, @lifeandlimb, right, I didn't ask.  But I felt ignored and it hurts.  Would you put together a dinner that you knew one of your family would have nothing to eat? 
When you decided to order a takeaway would you order something for everyone, even when that someone is not present, and unaware of that you are ordering?
If you are bringing a treat home, would you bring it for everyone?
Or you would just order your favourite duck and have the leftover given to that person?

Now I need to learn to shrug if off, I need to think in a way that it's not going to affect me. 
I need to learn that how I cut a carrot or how I hang my clothes is just my way, and that does not imply I am not good enough.

I need to learn to be stronger

Metalcat

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2022, 01:26:48 PM »
@Malcat
Why indeed?

As a lot of you pointed out, it really did not affect my life in any significant way. Whether my underpant is on a hanger (MIL's way) or on the wire with a peg (my way).
I felt the laundry is screaming out the message loudly from MIL, I AM BETTER, I KNEW MORE.
Now, am I clouded by my depression?  I reflected deeply and think I have enough datapoints to support that belief. 

In @lifeandlimb's words, yes I felt under-appreciated and un-noticed. 

Dear spouse think I overhtink, over-react.  So my unhappy and anguish feelings are  all on me and un-justified. 

Re: duck, @lifeandlimb, right, I didn't ask.  But I felt ignored and it hurts.  Would you put together a dinner that you knew one of your family would have nothing to eat? 
When you decided to order a takeaway would you order something for everyone, even when that someone is not present, and unaware of that you are ordering?
If you are bringing a treat home, would you bring it for everyone?
Or you would just order your favourite duck and have the leftover given to that person?

Now I need to learn to shrug if off, I need to think in a way that it's not going to affect me. 
I need to learn that how I cut a carrot or how I hang my clothes is just my way, and that does not imply I am not good enough.

I need to learn to be stronger

If you are dealing with mental health issues, you don't need to put pressure on yourself "to be stronger," you need better resources and more supports to cope with the stresses you are experiencing.

Do you have a really good therapist you can work with? One who can help you process things?

There's something going on here that is causing this reaction, it's understandable and explainable, and better yet, it's resolvable. But it's really, really hard to do on your own, and it's impossible to do just by putting pressure on yourself.

JupiterGreen

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #37 on: August 19, 2022, 01:31:54 PM »
@Malcat
Why indeed?

As a lot of you pointed out, it really did not affect my life in any significant way. Whether my underpant is on a hanger (MIL's way) or on the wire with a peg (my way).
I felt the laundry is screaming out the message loudly from MIL, I AM BETTER, I KNEW MORE.
Now, am I clouded by my depression?  I reflected deeply and think I have enough datapoints to support that belief. 

In @lifeandlimb's words, yes I felt under-appreciated and un-noticed. 

Dear spouse think I overhtink, over-react.  So my unhappy and anguish feelings are  all on me and un-justified. 

Re: duck, @lifeandlimb, right, I didn't ask.  But I felt ignored and it hurts.  Would you put together a dinner that you knew one of your family would have nothing to eat? 
When you decided to order a takeaway would you order something for everyone, even when that someone is not present, and unaware of that you are ordering?
If you are bringing a treat home, would you bring it for everyone?
Or you would just order your favourite duck and have the leftover given to that person?

Now I need to learn to shrug if off, I need to think in a way that it's not going to affect me. 
I need to learn that how I cut a carrot or how I hang my clothes is just my way, and that does not imply I am not good enough.

I need to learn to be stronger

Yes good advice and a therapist can help you with boundaries.

I suggest verbally expressing your concerns in no uncertain terms and trying not to read into what motivates others (as the quote goes: what other people think is none of our business).
"Here is my food order, I will hang it on the fridge so the next time you order out you can order this for me."
"I am working X hours outside of the home. I need you to do X chores to balance our work distribution."
"MIL, do not re-do my work. This is a firm boundary. I will not interfere with how you handle your affairs, please stay out of mine."

Once you set a boundary for someone then there is no grey area when they cross it. There are no feelings here either, it is simply a rule (think about it as a business). If they continue to cross boundaries point it out. "I have already set this as a boundary and yet you have crossed it. My boundary is firm, how can we rectify this so it does not happen again? Get a therapist, partner and/or others involved if needed.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2022, 01:33:35 PM by JupiterGreen »

charis

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #38 on: August 19, 2022, 02:06:31 PM »
In @lifeandlimb's words, yes I felt under-appreciated and un-noticed. 

Dear spouse think I overhtink, over-react.  So my unhappy and anguish feelings are  all on me and un-justified. 

Re: duck, @lifeandlimb, right, I didn't ask.  But I felt ignored and it hurts.  Would you put together a dinner that you knew one of your family would have nothing to eat? 
When you decided to order a takeaway would you order something for everyone, even when that someone is not present, and unaware of that you are ordering?
If you are bringing a treat home, would you bring it for everyone?
Or you would just order your favourite duck and have the leftover given to that person?

While I think there was a miscommunication issue here, I also think your hurt feelings are perfectly valid.  You are the only one working in your household (why?) and it is understood that you would be included in family's dinner plans.  They dropped the ball and you were hungry.

That said, you are an adult and you know that this was unintentional.  But it should be clear to you that you cannot simply react to these slights.  You need to set clear boundaries and communicate them to all involved, as others have pointed out.  I would start by communicating them to your spouse and working as a team as much as possible to enforce these boundaries (ie, dinner is your responsibility unless we communicate otherwise - if you get takeout, you are to get my order as well).  It's unpleasant when people fall short of your expectations when it seems like common courtesy, but some need to be taught.

Miss Piggy

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2022, 02:17:13 PM »
I can't tell you how unsettling it is to have a tipsy mom describe her adult own son as "so fucking sexy" while she runs her hands through his hair. I wish I could mentally bleach those experiences from my brain...

This actually makes me want to vomit. I cannot unsee this comment.

Just...ew.

Metalcat

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #40 on: August 19, 2022, 02:44:13 PM »
This actually makes me want to vomit. I cannot unsee this comment.

Just...ew.

Yep.

Pair that with one of my friends whose MIL showed up at the wedding in a lace dress almost identical to the bride's, and she got drunk and openly sobbed while slow dancing with her son...

Some MILs are...special


Miss Piggy

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #41 on: August 19, 2022, 04:25:12 PM »
OMG. Special indeed.

Sibley

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #42 on: August 19, 2022, 10:48:51 PM »
Well, probably don't lose your temper and throw her out of the house.

More helpfully, where's your spouse in this? This is not your mother. She is driving you nuts, a good spouse would wish to change this pattern. My grandmother was a nightmare to my mother, and my dad stood up for mom every time.

Counterpoint - if more people reacted to these people's bullshit with an immediate ass-kick out the door, I guarantee you they would smarten up and learn to act like a reasonable person when visiting someone.

Well yes, but there may be unwanted consequences. It is something you want to be careful about.

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #43 on: August 20, 2022, 02:36:20 AM »
You could be getting annoyed by your MIL for a number of reasons. 

You could be stressed: stress can very easily come out as being annoyed by things which are really nothing much.  Your comment that you are "the only one working" suggests stress to me.  Is that because you are the only one doing any work?  The only one working for pay (as opposed to eg housework, household management and child rearing)?  Or you are finding your work stressful without having any pressures at home (eg as sole financial support, or still having to pick up on household and child rearing tasks)?  If any of these stresses apply you need to express that to your other half and work out a better situation between the two of you.

You could be annoyed by your MIL because of a misunderstanding: she loves both her child and you and wants the best for you, it's just that what she says and does in a spirit of helpfulness comes across to you as criticism.   It is in fact criticism, it's just that MIL doesn't intend it that way.  If this is the situation your options are to adjust your reality towards seeing her actions as being helpful, you can grit your teeth and put up with them, or you can talk to her.  I think you are well past options 1 and 2. That means talking to your MIL about it: you can say something along the lines of "I'm sure you mean what you do around the house and what you say about my cooking and housekeeping to be helpful but I am experiencing it as criticism of my standards.  Your child and I love each other and want this to be a happy household, when you try to change the way I do things it makes me unhappy.  It would be helpful if you could remember that as a guest in this house you will contribute to this being a happy household by not trying to change the way I do things.  Thank you."  You will probably have to keep reinforcing this message.

The third option is that your MIL is, for whatever reason, a passive-aggressive shit-stirrer.  The only answer to that is to take the same line as if she were well-meaning, but be prepared to escalate.  Personally I might be prepared to throw her out of the house for the day every time she does something that annoys you, along the lines of "I asked you not to do/say that sort of thing, I'm sorry you are obviously unhappy in the house, I think you might be happier if you and your husband went out for the day/evening.  You could [suggest local attraction/walk].  I'll let your husband know and ask him to get the car out."  Do that every time and she'll hopefullly get the message.

I don't know where your spouse is in all this, you haven't mentioned them, so I'm guessing that either you haven't talked to them (in which case your first job is to talk to them and agree a way forward with them) or they are not prepared to stand up to their parents on your behalf.  If you are planning on the talk or talk plus escalation I would let them know.  But I would make your MIL stopping her behaviour a priority: whether it is deliberately nasty or not it is making you uncomfortable in the place you have a right to feel most comfortable.

Jacinle

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #44 on: August 20, 2022, 03:58:22 AM »

If you are dealing with mental health issues, you don't need to put pressure on yourself "to be stronger," you need better resources and more supports to cope with the stresses you are experiencing.

Do you have a really good therapist you can work with? One who can help you process things?

There's something going on here that is causing this reaction, it's understandable and explainable, and better yet, it's resolvable. But it's really, really hard to do on your own, and it's impossible to do just by putting pressure on yourself.

Yes, I have a therapist but she is on summer vacation.  I have tried to work it out myself but appraently I couldn't.  I felt a bit vulnerable to put these things over on the internet but I do need the help.  This forum have been kind and wise. 

I wish when the size of carrot is bought up, I could have bravely said, that's the way I like it done.  But then I imagine, which MIL always does, diligently follow-up to make sure her way is followed, e.g. throw a Gordan Ramsey and Jamie oliver cookbook and highlighting the line on how they cut carrot .  (FYI this did happen before regarding how much oil to use in a dish)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2022, 04:09:58 AM by Jacinle »

Jacinle

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #45 on: August 20, 2022, 04:05:15 AM »
You could be getting annoyed by your MIL for a number of reasons. 

You could be stressed: stress can very easily come out as being annoyed by things which are really nothing much. 

Yes I am stressed.  I am stressed by my (paid) work.  I am stressed due to workload, expectations, and also limited time;  Time to do paid work + house work + child care + self care
Probably I need to start up a new thread - how to take care yourself in stress / how to find time
Limited time - that's probably why I throw a chunk of carrot in soup - rather than doing a julienne cut carrot

Metalcat

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #46 on: August 20, 2022, 04:43:03 AM »

If you are dealing with mental health issues, you don't need to put pressure on yourself "to be stronger," you need better resources and more supports to cope with the stresses you are experiencing.

Do you have a really good therapist you can work with? One who can help you process things?

There's something going on here that is causing this reaction, it's understandable and explainable, and better yet, it's resolvable. But it's really, really hard to do on your own, and it's impossible to do just by putting pressure on yourself.

Yes, I have a therapist but she is on summer vacation.  I have tried to work it out myself but appraently I couldn't.  I felt a bit vulnerable to put these things over on the internet but I do need the help.  This forum have been kind and wise. 

I wish when the size of carrot is bought up, I could have bravely said, that's the way I like it done.  But then I imagine, which MIL always does, diligently follow-up to make sure her way is followed, e.g. throw a Gordan Ramsey and Jamie oliver cookbook and highlighting the line on how they cut carrot .  (FYI this did happen before regarding how much oil to use in a dish)

Here's the thing: you can't control her behaviour. There's no magical response that will get her to stop doing what she's doing to you. As I said before, she does this to her own husband, she's obviously done it her whole life, she's not going to stop.

It's not even about you, it's what *she* does.

Your job is not to put pressure on yourself to find the "right" way to respond to her, your job is to try and heal whatever emotionally injuries you have that make you feel emotional vulnerable to her pointless nitpicking.

If your therapist is off for the summer, they should have referred you to someone else who can cover while they're gone. If you can't find someone else in the meantime (note there are tons of online pysch services available now, thanks to the pandemic), then perhaps start doing some reading in the meantime that might help.

I know a lot of people in your position have benefited from "What Happened to You?" a collaboration between Dr. Bruce Perry and Oprah. I've only read part of it, but it was discussed as a popular patient resource in one of my trauma counselling courses.

An ideal outcome of this isn't that she stops her behaviour. She won't. It's not going to happen. An ideal outcome of this is that whatever has happened to you that makes you so vulnerable to her behaviour gets resolved and her weird-ass behaviour stops hurting you so much.

As it is, you've got some open emotional wound and she's poking at it. You can't toughen up until you heal first.

Zamboni

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #47 on: August 20, 2022, 08:02:58 AM »
Malcat, you've given a lot of really, really excellent advice in this thread. Super insightful and helpful. I agree that the "ideal outcome" is self healing. However, I think there is also room here for OP to work with spouse to gain spouse's support to help MIL moderate some of her behavior. The fact that MIL's rude behavior is bothering OP is IMPORTANT, and both spouse and MIL should CARE how OP feels, even if they think OP is silly or too sensitive, and actually make an effort to behave in a way that makes OP more comfortable!

Peace in the home is really important. If you consistently disrupt peace in my home, then I will try to help you understand and stop. If you refuse to help me feel peace in my own home, then I will either kick you out or I will leave myself. That's how I roll. Extreme? Yes. Highly effective? Also yes. It's a high stakes game, though, so this is a technique to use sparingly. OP may not be ready for that level of extreme response, which ideally only happens after a lot of communication hasn't been working.

But it's not just a case of "OP needs to learn how to cope" that I am reading in some responses. Yes, OP can work on coping strategies, as we all should when we are being annoyed. But I also think it's really important for OP to keep communicating calmly to spouse that feelings are hurt due to both thoughtlessness on spouse's/in-law family's part. Their blaming of OP for being too sensitive, rather than recognizing that some of MIL's behavior is truly obnoxious, is a big problem. As some have pointed out, IT IS SPOUSE's job to stick up proactively for OP and communicate with spouse's side family.

Instructing an adult how to properly hang up their own underwear to dry is one of the most obnoxious things I've ever read. Seriously. That's just plain rude by MIL. Whether she means to be rude or not, she is being rude. Spouse can certainly learn to say to MIL "please stop instructing OP on how you think people should do household chores. Please stop redoing work OP has already done. I love you, Mom, but I like OP's way of keeping our home, Mom, and this is our home." If spouse is too spineless to have that conversation with MIL, giving her specific examples so she understands, then that is indeed a problem that spouse needs to work on. If you live in your inlaw's home . . . then this is much more difficult (I am not sure your living situation.)

Would you put together a dinner that you knew one of your family would have nothing to eat? 
When you decided to order a takeaway would you order something for everyone, even when that someone is not present, and unaware of that you are ordering?
If you are bringing a treat home, would you bring it for everyone?

This actually comes up in my on-the-go blended family a lot, and I ALWAYS call or text to see if the other people want any food, what they want, etc. If I can't get in touch, then I just buy at least one thing I KNOW that the person not with us likes and bring it home with me to tell them I got it for them. A full meal if it is meal time and I have no reason to think they have other meal plans. If weird time or I think they have other plans, then I still often get something small just for them like an appetizer, side dish, or dessert if I think they may not really need the food.

Sometimes they are happy to eat it right then, and sometimes they don't want it right away, but my effort is not wasted anyway. Always they are happy I thought of them. I will not change that because it is more important to me that the other person knows I am thinking about them and it doesn't matter whether or not they really need the food right then. The only time I mess up is when I *think* they had other meal plans for a full meal and I am incorrect (or their plans changed.) Then I apologize, because saying "I'm sorry I didn't know to bring you something! Next time I will do better!" is much better than just saying "Here is our leftovers that you don't like . . . tough luck for you."

I hope you were able to tell your spouse that it bothered you when they came home with only leftovers that spouse knows you do not like, and that you hope they will think of you next time and actually order something you want to eat "to go" and bring it home, even if you will be reheating it later. If you didn't feel ready to communicate that at the time you were hurt, then you can still bring it up at a calm time over a cup of tea.

Especially with you being the only income earner, they should really be going out of their way to make sure the food/chores etc. are completed in a way that helps you relax at home. Please keep that communication open with spouse.

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #48 on: August 20, 2022, 08:48:55 AM »
You could be getting annoyed by your MIL for a number of reasons. 

You could be stressed: stress can very easily come out as being annoyed by things which are really nothing much. 

Yes I am stressed.  I am stressed by my (paid) work.  I am stressed due to workload, expectations, and also limited time;  Time to do paid work + house work + child care + self care
Probably I need to start up a new thread - how to take care yourself in stress / how to find time
Limited time - that's probably why I throw a chunk of carrot in soup - rather than doing a julienne cut carrot

I think you need to start a discussion with your spouse about how much house work and child care you are doing and that you are stressed out by it and can't continue it along with your paid work without feeling overwhelmed, and can your spouse suggest some things they can do that would allow you to continue to earn the household income while being less stressed at home.

Sandi_k

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Re: How to stop being annoyed by MIL (or anyone)
« Reply #49 on: August 20, 2022, 09:23:34 AM »
What I do, and it's not for everyone, is turn it into a big joke by being a super, even borderline offensive, smartass.
For example, next time you hang clothes proclaim loudly and in front of others, ideally, that MIL hangs all the clothes because everyone else is too stupid to do it right. Same thing with the soup. Sane thing with the dishes. Go over the top smart ass: " Only MIL has the incredible skill needed to safely cut carrots to the proper size, here's the knife, THANKS FOR HELPING", etc.
Every time MIL wants to give advice  just have her do it and walk away, not in anger but in happiness. "We're so lucky to have you, you do all the work we're too stupid to do!"
If you can make her laugh as part of the group at some of her crazy ways it's a start. And it shows you're not afraid of her opinons in that it's not going to make you question yourself, it's going to make you poke fun at her.

Yeah, that approach won't work with any woman over 65 that I know. This sounds like a possible avenue if you want to hear YES if you ask "AITA?" This is the problem with the passive aggressive approach, with which my MIL excels. If you confront it loudly, or harshly, everyone swings their judgment to YOU. And it does not help or aid future interactions at all.

I'll go even further, and say that this is a culturally American-male response. If the OP's MIL is from another culture and not native-born American (which sounds to be the case), this sort of cultural insensitivity is exactly the wrong approach.

If the OP wants to solve it, then her spouse needs to tell HIS mother that it is uncomfortable for them BOTH to have her walking all over BOTH of them in THEIR house, and she needs to stop it. She should only assist when asked, because they want to be able to do things their own way in their own space.

If the spouse is too trained by his mother to stand up to her - gently, but firmly - then the OP will be dealing with this on her own, and any reflexive response she makes will be seen as over the top.
I'll just say, it's all in the delivery, and you know different women over 65 than I do. If someone is disrespecting you without push back you can expect them to continue, and you don't need a spouse to stand up for yourself.

Just FYI, a lot of the time, it is recommended that the partner who is related to the problematic family member be the one to handle their family. It's not about either partner not being able to "stand up for themselves," it's about creating boundaries.

I never, ever confront DH's bitchy older sister despite the fact that I am perfectly comfortable standing up for myself. She's DH's turf and he's the one who handles her. I'm not touching that mess with a ten foot pole. Not my family, not my circus, not my fucking monkeys.

Exactly right.

I can easily draw the boundary with the BIL - but the MIL has installed all of DH's sensitivities, and she's trained DH, BIL and FIL to treat her as delicate, a little dumb, and in need of their support.

Me going after her would be stupid in the extreme.

And thanks for the laugh - the idea that I need DH to "stand up for me?!" LOL.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!