How to select a car to buy in this madness - HELP!?

[JimFrugal]

HI everyone, looonnnng time lurker here and reader of MMM.

We currently have a 156k miles on our beloved Honda Fit, and are looking for a second vehicle as we live somewhat rural and now with our kids if someone takes the car, everyone else is carless. We've been not buying a car, but it may be time.

However, as you all probably know the used car market is bonkers.

Here are some considerations:

-Size: Another Honda fit is an option, but we would definitely be ok with a little bit more room with carseats, gear, etc. If we got another fit we would also get some roof racks etc

-Efficiency. Ok, so we are environmentally conscience but I'm not sure the right next steps. We could go fully electric, but would likely need to add solar etc which we could do. Or is it better to buy a used gas powered car (is a used car with good mileage better than a new EV?). Hybrid seems interesting but ultimately means nothing unless it delivery more MPG. Plug in hybrid? Hard to know the right thing to do.

-Financials. Of course we can purchase in cash, but I'd like to buy the reasonable cost option to minimize cost/maximize utility.

-Car ideas. We are going to put together a grid of options (although I'm obviously hoping for a golden solution on here :) )and some of the cars we are considering:

Gas: Honda Fit, Mazda 3, Toyota Hatchback of some sort, CR-V, HR-V
Electric: Leaf, Ioniq, Kona, Kia EV6, VW ID4
Hybrid: Prius V, CR-V hybrid, Rav 4 hybrid, Subaru hybrid of some sort


My next steps are to basically research, put the results in google sheets and compare the pros and cons... unless one of you fine mustachians can help me figure this out :) Thanks in advance.

[mozar]

How many miles a day would this car drive? Are the kids old enough for their own car? Is it going to be for road trips or I need ice cream right now kind of car? You can get a used electric car but spending thousands of dollars for a solar array might not be feasible. If you were planning  to convert your entire house to electric anyway that could work.
Everyone one I know who has a Prius loves it, but that’s also a problem because it’s hard to get one.
You should look at cars at Facebook marketplace to see what’s actually available. You don’t want to get your heart set on a particular vehicle then find out there’s none available.

[PMG]

Are you me?!?  I’m going to follow the thread and see what I can learn from your process.  We’ve done fine sharing a car due to a lot of work flexibility and one of us working from home (or both during early COVID).  Now I have less work flexibility and we just had our baby and will be doing the daycare dance soon. We have a Toyota Yaris (essentially a Mazda 3, right?) which we love (though so sometimes wish it were a hatch back). It’s got around 20k miles. We expect many years with it.  But do we need a second car? For all those little things listed above and the peace of mind it brings for both of us to be able to reach the child or the hospital, and be able to share responsibility. If we get a second car, do we get a little beater, or something with many years ahead, something small? Something a little bigger? 

Can’t wait to see the conversation around OPs questions!

[Turtle]

I'm not currently in the market for a car, but my youngest kiddo will be within the next 6 months to a year, so also posting to follow.

[Sibley]

Don't limit yourself to looking at used cars. It sounds bonkers, but I've been hearing from people that the new car was significantly cheaper than the used car. You will have to do the math. This market is nuts.

I have a 2019 Honda Fit. Honda has discontinued the Fit, though not sure what year was the last.

[darknight]

I would opt to send the Fit out with the new driver. "Upgrade" the family vehicle esp if you need the room. If you can (inventory everywhere is extremely low.. on decent cars) go sit in as many as are on your list. I'm currently looking at a Camry sized vehicle because I'd like to get something that will fit growing kids that can yield decent mileage. Size, safety, MPG, are my top concerns so I'm thinking fullsize sedan in a hybrid variant.

I would suggest writing down what is most important for your next family vehicle and work from that.. maybe it's size, 4x4, towing, etc..

I did notice that some manufacturers are already promoting 1.9 & 2.9% rates (well below the industry standard), there are deals to be had if you can wait a little bit. I've worked in the auto industry and the #1 mistake people make is getting into a position where you need a car THIS WEEK!! Decide what is most ideal, then use 3rd party craigslist apps and FB marketplace to get notifications when a certain year/model become available. Properly good deals still come up all the time, not everyone is looking to sell their used car for top dollar, you just need to be watching.

[AccidentialMustache]

Gas: Honda Fit, Mazda 3, Toyota Hatchback of some sort, CR-V, HR-V
Electric: Leaf, Ioniq, Kona, Kia EV6, VW ID4
Hybrid: Prius V, CR-V hybrid, Rav 4 hybrid, Subaru hybrid of some sort

Similar situation, except we're in town. If you love the size of the fit you owe it to yourself to sit in a chevy bolt ev. We couldn't get past the armrest, but if you can its a fit-sized non-compliance-car EV. It charges slow though, so you aren't going to want to pile everyone in for the road trip of a lifetime. Chevy's out of fed tax credits, but dropped the msrp on the new ones into the upper 20s. Like, a new chevy bolt is about the same price in inflation adjusted dollars as our 2009 honda fit.

@Syonyk would say the chevy volt needs to be on your list as well and I can't disagree, but we wanted something with more [edit: "more height"]. Aging parents have enough trouble with the fit, much less lower sedans.

If you don't mind a landship, you can find older model S for a lot more reasonable price (similar to the mid range electrics you have listed), just watch the battery capacity/range. The supercharge network is the charger network to beat, and nobody has yet.

I used to recommend the Mustang Mach E and... if you're lucky and yours works flawlessly it is a fantastic car. And if you aren't, it really really blows. Mine is the latter class, more or less entirely because my local dealer is a dumpster fire. As in, 1 tech is EV certified so its a month out to schedule anything, and if the problem is software there's basically nothing they can do, and the car is quite literally a rolling computer network, so almost every problem is software.

We're looking at trading to a I5 or EV6 (and probably coming out ahead when you factor in fed/state rebates).

[sonofsven]

Are your kids going to be driving soon? I also live rural, and my daughter was splitting time between two houses (co parenting) and was interested in getting her license and driving at 16 (YIKES!)
I found an older (2001) Toyota Avalon. Inexpensive, reliable, larger size, it's like if Toyota made a Buick. It's popular with the seniors so it's usually well maintained (and single owner). It doesn't get great mileage but if you're not driving it much it's not hugely important. Did I mention they are inexpensive? I paid $1,200, it had 75k miles, but had been sitting for a few years (owner died).
Some heavy cleanup and maintenance (father daughter time) and lots of driving lessons and I handed it off to her. It's gone to the shop for wear items (alternator, etc) which she pays for, but when we need to go on a few hour trip we take the Avalon, it's really a great car, and very comfortable.
This is like the third time I've recommended an Avalon in these threads, I'm like an Avalongelist.

[Tester]

I see the cars listed and I don't see Nissan, Hyundai.
Take a look, you might find something which fits your needs at good prices.

[Dancin'Dog]

Are your kids going to be driving soon? I also live rural, and my daughter was splitting time between two houses (co parenting) and was interested in getting her license and driving at 16 (YIKES!)
I found an older (2001) Toyota Avalon. Inexpensive, reliable, larger size, it's like if Toyota made a Buick. It's popular with the seniors so it's usually well maintained (and single owner). It doesn't get great mileage but if you're not driving it much it's not hugely important. Did I mention they are inexpensive? I paid $1,200, it had 75k miles, but had been sitting for a few years (owner died).
Some heavy cleanup and maintenance (father daughter time) and lots of driving lessons and I handed it off to her. It's gone to the shop for wear items (alternator, etc) which she pays for, but when we need to go on a few hour trip we take the Avalon, it's really a great car, and very comfortable.
This is like the third time I've recommended an Avalon in these threads, I'm like an Avalongelist.

That's a good suggestion.  In my opinion buying a different class of vehicle than what you currently have adds flexibility.  If you buy another Fit you won't gain any advantages besides having a second car.  If you buy a mini van, SUV, truck, or EV you'll gain some options that the Fit does have, or things that it can't do.  Being able to carry 7 people is really handy, or being able to pull a trailer, etc.  Things like that can really change your lifestyle.  High mpg cars are great, but they really limit the things you're able to carry. 


I've never owned a mini van, but I've always considered them to be a great design.  They're roomy and practical. Used ones used to be quite affordable.  Not sure how they're priced these days...

[chemistk]

First - why would you need solar to purchase a plug in or full electric vehicle? If you have 200A electrical service to your house, there's absolutely no need to have solar panels. It's always great to explore the option but it's also not going to pay for itself quickly given that you're up here in the Northeast.

Second - going with gas or hybrid is also totally fine, but as you and others have mentioned it's not exactly a buyer's market for used vehicles. Before anyone can make some serious recommendations, you need to figure out what this second car needs to do. I guess my first question would be - is there anything that your Fit can't do that another vehicle MUST be able to do? Not 'nice to have' features, but something that it truly is incapable of: towing, hauling >5 people, having higher ground clearance, etc.

It sort of sounds like your Fit can handle most of your needs, so the things on your list (small hatchbacks and micro-crossovers) should be suitable. Some of them are definitely better than others.  As nice as they are to drive, the Mazda is going to have door openings that are not ideal for large people or objects.

Once you have the 'things a car must do' list nailed down, go and search to see what's available locally and what's available nationally. Having a car shipped to you can sometimes be less expensive than eating a local markup due to lack of inventory.

I'd also recommend test driving as many of the contenders as you can find. CarMax is easily the best place to visit - you can test drive any vehicle you want with no obligation, the people there aren't there to breathe down your shirt, they're just there to facilitate an easy buying process. I wouldn't necessarily choose CarMax as the first place to go to buy a car but it's the best place to kick tires.

[ender]

Make sure you throw pretty much any advice written previous to 2021 out.

The car market is dramatically different now than it's been before. A lot of people will give you the same advice which applied in the pre-covid market.

[JimFrugal]

To clarify our kids are little, I just meant if one of the adults goes somewhere the other parent and kids are without transportation.

Mileage wise it is trips to and from town and 6 hour road trips to visit family.

Thanks all for advice so far!

[Dancin'Dog]

I'll second the advice about going to Carmax to see which brand and model suits you.  You can sit in & test drive all of the brands easily in one place.  That really cuts down on the time you might waste during the "what do we even want" phase.

[lutorm]

This is a bit off-topic, but how do people fit >1 child seat in any compact or midsize car? I'm not at all tall, but the only way we could fit our rear-facing child seat in the Prius we used to have was in the middle of the back, so it poked forward between the front seat backs. With two kids it would have had to go in one of the rear seats, which in turn would require the front seats to too far forward to fit even me, never mind my taller wife.

[chemistk]

This is a bit off-topic, but how do people fit >1 child seat in any compact or midsize car? I'm not at all tall, but the only way we could fit our rear-facing child seat in the Prius we used to have was in the middle of the back, so it poked forward between the front seat backs. With two kids it would have had to go in one of the rear seats, which in turn would require the front seats to too far forward to fit even me, never mind my taller wife.

It's very difficult to do so with rear-facing seats. There are some which are more compact (Diono Radians) but you have to specifically seek those out. Whenever we took our first two in my Focus when they were both rear facing, we'd put the smaller infant seat behind me and the larger behind my wife. It is definitely cramped and gets much easier when at least one can be forward facing.

[2sk22]

I was in a similar situation last year - my older daughter who lives in the midwest needed a car so I gave her my old Prius and decided to get a new car. Since I am retired, I don't drive around very much but when I do, I often have to carry bulky stuff. I am heading out to Lowes to get some lumber for my next model train project today for example. Reluctantly, I came to the conclusion that what I needed was a smallish SUV. I ultimately wound up buying a Honda CR-V (the regular gas version, not the hybrid).

I really wanted an electric but there were no good options in May 2021. For that matter, there still aren't any good EV options. The waiting list for the Hyundai Ioniq 5, Kia EV 6 and VW ID.4 are at least 6 months. I don't think availability is going to improve until the end of next year at the earliest.

I ultimately decided on the CR-V as it was the ideal shape and size for my needs but decided not to get the hybrid version as the reviews for the hybrid were meh at best. As it happens, the CR-V has been remarkably economical. It's not clear if a hybrid would have been any better for my needs. See the screenshot from my Fuelly page where I keep track of fuel consumption.

[JAYSLOL]

We needed a second car last year and I snagged a deal on a 2012 Hyundai Elantra Touring with just under 100k on it, you might want to check those out if you like the Fit but want a touch more room.

[roomtempmayo]

I found an older (2001) Toyota Avalon. Inexpensive, reliable, larger size, it's like if Toyota made a Buick. It's popular with the seniors so it's usually well maintained (and single owner). It doesn't get great mileage but if you're not driving it much it's not hugely important. Did I mention they are inexpensive? I paid $1,200, it had 75k miles, but had been sitting for a few years (owner died).

We had a parallel experience this past week.  My wife's grandfather is in his 90s and no longer (should be) driving.  He bought a Cadillac new in 2002 that's still in his garage, and we talked about giving it a new home at our house.  Poking around the internet to try and put a price on it, I was surprised to find out that "grandpa" cars are still super cheap.  His minty but high mileage 20 year old Cadillac is probably only worth 2 or 3k.

That's a long way of seconding the idea of looking at a big, old sedan.

[JAYSLOL]

I found an older (2001) Toyota Avalon. Inexpensive, reliable, larger size, it's like if Toyota made a Buick. It's popular with the seniors so it's usually well maintained (and single owner). It doesn't get great mileage but if you're not driving it much it's not hugely important. Did I mention they are inexpensive? I paid $1,200, it had 75k miles, but had been sitting for a few years (owner died).

We had a parallel experience this past week.  My wife's grandfather is in his 90s and no longer (should be) driving.  He bought a Cadillac new in 2002 that's still in his garage, and we talked about giving it a new home at our house.  Poking around the internet to try and put a price on it, I was surprised to find out that "grandpa" cars are still super cheap.  His minty but high mileage 20 year old Cadillac is probably only worth 2 or 3k.

That's a long way of seconding the idea of looking at a big, old sedan.

If it’s a North Star powered Caddy, it’s well overdue to bite the dust even well cared for with low mileage, so that might be part of the low resale value for that model.  But yeah, some old people cars are absolutely fantastic buys, I especially like the Toyota Avalon and older Lexus models that are common to find in super low mileage 

[Askel]

Bike! 

I mean, it's Rhode Island- how far could you possibly get from town? ;) 

I'm a rural citizen too and the biking is pretty great. 

[Just Joe]

The Leaf is great if you are charging at home. It is not a road trip car b/c it can only fast charge perhaps once a day due to its aircooled battery. Battery gets hot and any future charges that day are slowed by the car to moderate the battery heating. If you charge at home (120V or 220V) the battery will never get hot b/c the power flow is too slow to heat up the battery. Also, this helps battery longevity (aging) - staying cool.

There is a 150 and 220 mile battery version. The 220 mile version is called a "Plus". I've driven them to the big city and back with no problems. 30-40 minute charge there before returning to top off the battery to 80%. Big city is ~100 miles away. I know someone who drove one to the beach 10 hours away a few years ago and it took two days to do a one day trip due to the battery getting hot during fast charging and staying hot for hours afterward. Slow charging. It is a non-issue for local use and charging at home.

Nissan told me directly (on a battery factory tour) that their chemistry was optimized to cope with battery heat - - but notice that every other electric Nissan since has had a watercooled battery. Perhaps they needed to improve charge rates and the aircooled battery is indeed optimized to cope with heat.

If you have three kids and trips to grandma's house is hours away, consider something larger and then drive it as little as you can when you don't need to.

[lifeisshort123]

I would suggest buying a used care that will be reliable and last for a long time.  I know they are hard to find.  But also, find the most economical car you can.  If this is a second car truly for emergencies/convenience, it does not need to be as big as the Honda Fit.  A small Ford Fiesta (or something along that equivalent) would be just fine.  And, a used vehicle with maybe 50k miles (or more) would be just fine.  Cars last for a very long time now.  The days of needing to upgrade every 5 years are long gone (thankfully).

[LightStache]

Gas: Honda Fit, Mazda 3, Toyota Hatchback of some sort, CR-V, HR-V
Electric: Leaf, Ioniq, Kona, Kia EV6, VW ID4
Hybrid: Prius V, CR-V hybrid, Rav 4 hybrid, Subaru hybrid of some sort

Similar situation, except we're in town. If you love the size of the fit you owe it to yourself to sit in a chevy bolt ev. We couldn't get past the armrest, but if you can its a fit-sized non-compliance-car EV. It charges slow though, so you aren't going to want to pile everyone in for the road trip of a lifetime. Chevy's out of fed tax credits, but dropped the msrp on the new ones into the upper 20s. Like, a new chevy bolt is about the same price in inflation adjusted dollars as our 2009 honda fit.

@Syonyk would say the chevy volt needs to be on your list as well and I can't disagree, but we wanted something with more [edit: "more height"]. Aging parents have enough trouble with the fit, much less lower sedans.

If you don't mind a landship, you can find older model S for a lot more reasonable price (similar to the mid range electrics you have listed), just watch the battery capacity/range. The supercharge network is the charger network to beat, and nobody has yet.

I used to recommend the Mustang Mach E and... if you're lucky and yours works flawlessly it is a fantastic car. And if you aren't, it really really blows. Mine is the latter class, more or less entirely because my local dealer is a dumpster fire. As in, 1 tech is EV certified so its a month out to schedule anything, and if the problem is software there's basically nothing they can do, and the car is quite literally a rolling computer network, so almost every problem is software.

We're looking at trading to a I5 or EV6 (and probably coming out ahead when you factor in fed/state rebates).

Sounds like a similar experience to my 2014 Fusion Energi, so I guess Ford still hasn't figured out tech. I also had a combination of hardware/software design problems and the dealer experience was just ridiculous.

If I were to buy a newer car today, I would weigh tech issues and dealer experience very heavily in my purchase decision.