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Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: Goldielocks on June 15, 2016, 08:18:10 AM

Title: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Goldielocks on June 15, 2016, 08:18:10 AM
On a different Thread, the OP asked if they were being unreasonable because they switched out to very low flow shower heads, after accepting 4 adults (related) into their home to "help them get on their feet".

My thought is that it is "house rules" as much as savings that encourage our adult family to move into their own place.

Why did YOU move out of your parent's home?  Why did you look for a job that took you away, or what "house rules" or annoyances encouraged you to become independent?

I will start:

I moved out for two reasons -- I took a 4 month contract out of town for my first "real" job, but it was easy to go and never come back because of house rules including:
. worrying parents if I stayed out past midnight (not a curfew, but I knew it disturbed their sleep and they worried)
. 20 year old single bed with a spring that poked out.  Buying furniture for myself never occured to me.
. not being able to leave anything outside of my room for more than 3 hours.  Shoes at the front door, purse near the stairs, laptop on the end table, etc.
. only using the kitchen if I left it immaculate, and not when my mom may want to use it.   
.  General feeling like it was their house, their ways, and I was not invited to request any changes to the order in the home...  had to ask if I wanted to store anything outside of my room, use common space in a different way, etc.
. having friends over, this was not really the place.  (I don't mean romantic interests either... any friends over was a bit awkward unless a formal invite for a barbeque that included my parents).
. suburbs away from other friends.

What about you?  Why did you move out of your home?

What would work to get Adult "guests" out of your home more quickly?

Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: TheInsuranceMan on June 15, 2016, 08:25:51 AM
Left at 18 for community college, moved back in at 20 for the summer, and then took a job 2 and a half hours away. 
No house rules, could do what I want, come and go as a pleased.  No forcing me to move out.  But hell, you've got to "adult" sometime, right?!
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: MrsDinero on June 15, 2016, 08:32:47 AM
I left home at 17.  My parents made a big, life decision that was very good for them but not so good for me.  I never moved back.  It was very hard leaving at age 17 and I struggled a lot, but I am very proud of my path and where it has led me.

ETA:  Siblings

Older Sibling:  Was forced out at age 19.  He was sleeping until noon, working part-time at fast food restaurant, and just hanging out with friends until 1 or 2 in the morning.  My parents gave him 4 choices:
- Go to school full time
- Work full time
- Join the military
- Get out
He chose the military.  20 years later (after he retired), he moved back in with my parents and pretty much fell into the same pattern.  Sleeping late, playing video games, lots of unemployment, the only difference is his military pension.  During an argument about his constant unemployment and his living at home for the last 3-4 years, he let it slip that he was only living there to establish "ownership" of the home so that when they pass, the house would become his only.  It had to do with a some sort of loophole about him being my parents dependent (but not the tax kind) after a certain number of years and therefore would not be able to be evicted in the time of their passing if the house was to be part of an inheritance left to us kids.  Clearly he had done his homework.  After that they told him he had to go.  He moved into an apartment complex across the street, sometimes works part time, lots of unemployment, and plays lots of video games. 

Younger Sibling:  Moved out at age 25. He was 1/2 way through grad school (full time), working full time, & saving money.  He moved out when he paid off his car that he bought himself as a graduation present for his bachelors degree.  He is still moved out and working insane hours towards becoming a partner in his firm.  When he lived as long as he kept his grades up and paid for his books and fees, he didn't have to contribute to the household expenses.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: stoaX on June 15, 2016, 08:40:14 AM
I left at 19 to be with my then girlfriend / now wife who lived on the other side of the country.  I loved my parents and they provided a great home for me but I couldn't wait to get out on my own.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: StarBright on June 15, 2016, 08:58:17 AM
I moved out at 18 for college and got married right out of undergrad. I moved back in with my folks for a few months after I split with my ex. I had a blast and would have been happy to stay with my parents for several more months or even a year but I was having a really hard time getting a job in their town. I was temping in an airline MRO and couldn't get a stable shift and I knew I wanted to find a way to use my degree.

I moved back to the same city where I went to grad school and found a job and haven't lived near my parents since. It makes me sad because my parents are awesome but you do what you have to do.

My little brother lived with my parents for a LONG time (until he was about 27 or 28). He has OCD and is not comfortable in unfamiliar areas. My parents started charging him rent at some point and eventually a house came up for sale on the same street where we grew up. My parents gifted him back the rent he had paid (plus a little extra) and encouraged him to put a down payment on the house with it. He bought the house and it was a perfect solution for everyone.

My BIL lived in my inlaw's poolhouse from right after college until he was about 37. He would have been happy to live there forever (as would I - it is a gorgeous, small one bedroom house with an awesome yard and pool) but his new wife insisted that they get their own place (good for her!)
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: sis on June 15, 2016, 08:59:12 AM
I went to college at 18.  I came back for one summer and it just sucked.  Having a southern, conservative, racist, republican stepfather just didn't mesh well with my hippy liberalism.  I wound up crashing with friends a lot that summer and over subsequent summers I lived in on campus housing.  I worked three jobs simultaneously during undergrad to make sure I'd have enough saved up to never have to move back in with my parents after college.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: HappyHoya on June 15, 2016, 09:10:44 AM
I left for college but returned for a few weeks after graduating while I was waiting for a new job to start. I left for good one night after a horrible fight about the stupidest thing. My parents are hardcore super spendy neo-cons and this was in the midst of the financial crisis while they were watching everything they believed in crumble around them. It was a tough time for them to be sure, but they were so anxious that every word or action was suddenly a political war. The fight that ended with me leaving was about a friend who was hanging out with me earlier and we were commiserating about the job market (this was the summer of 2009, when layoffs were the worst they were through the entire economic downturn). My mother, who has never financially supported herself, thought it was an appropriate time to go on a tirade about how we just need to believe in the American Dream and it's our own fault for being defeatist. Apparently, if we just spent money with abandoned, we could make jobs for ourselves!!! Never mind where the money was supposed to come from. That was the last night I lived with them and a turning point in the journey that brought me here. They've been complaining about how empty their McMansion feels ever since.

TL;DR: If you want your adult children to leave, be crazy, mean, and insult their friends.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: GuitarStv on June 15, 2016, 09:10:55 AM
I came home from University.  My dad introduced me to the guest room, and told me that I was welcome to stay in the guest room for a short while but I'd have to pay rent if I wanted to stay for longer.  The guest room was my old room.

I moved in with some roommates and got a job a few days after that.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: bobechs on June 15, 2016, 09:14:36 AM
Joined up.

Would have been happy enough to continue to live at home and i think Mom would have liked it, Dad much less so, but the CG had completely different ideas.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Fishindude on June 15, 2016, 09:15:42 AM
We were raised pretty independent and always had to work if we wanted any money for "fun stuff", so have been working pretty steady since about age 12-13.
No real issues with the parents, just wanted to be on my own, got a good job right out of high school and couldn't wait to get moved out.   Within a couple months of HS graduation I moved out, bought my own car and was doing my own thing.

Always rented cheap places shared with a buddy or two when I was a bachelor.     Had some wild times in those days, probably lucky to have lived through them.
Spent two years renting an old junk farm house out in the boonies with a buddy, that place was an ice box in the winter and we heated entirely with wood.

Took marriage, kids and a mortgage to get me on the right track.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Spork on June 15, 2016, 09:19:23 AM
I moved out to go to college (which was highly subsidized by parents).  The idea of returning home afterwards didn't even really occur to me.  I had more freedom away from home and saw the opportunity for real money of my own.  Sleeping in a twin bed in the room next door to Mom & Dad didn't even really sound like an option.

On the flip side: I have a relative that's creeping towards 30 that hasn't done much college and has never held even a part-time, minimum wage job.  I see no indication they will move out ever.  Mom's beginning to start worrying, but not enough to put her foot down.  (That's just not her style.)
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: boarder42 on June 15, 2016, 09:24:09 AM
moved out for college still lived at home for summer intenships that were near the city they live in.  moved back in for 1 week after graduation - i purchased a home to take advantage of the 8k the govt was giving away and bought a foreclosure - recently sold for a nice profit if you consider the amount i had invested - around 35k in principal made 20k in profit. on that. 
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: SomedayStache on June 15, 2016, 09:31:35 AM
The parent to child dynamic is what made living at home untenable.

When I returned home during breaks from college my parents still enforced a curfew on me.  I was expected to do chores on my parents terms and at the times they wanted.  Ummm...nope.  I was 100% self-supporting by 19 and out of there.

But with the same set of parents my brother still lives at home at 31 (He does have Asperger's and some other difficulties, he tried living in his own house for a few years but it basically sat empty while he continued eating and sleeping at my parents.)  He pays rent to my parents and is responsible for a portion of the grocery money.  He does chores and tasks that my parents are getting too old to do.  I think we are all beginning to accept that he might just live with them forever - this might be part of why my parents bought themselves a motor home which will enable them to 'get away'.  I'm actually starting to worry what he will do when they eventually die - the will is already set up as a special needs trust for him...but I don't know if I can handle suddenly becoming my brother's only source of socialization.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: SimplyMarvie on June 15, 2016, 09:39:09 AM
Moved out for college, came back for the occasional summer and as a pit stop between life events (we stayed with my mom for two months between our honeymoon and starting grad school). The biggest thing that drove me out was transportation -- I didn't have a car, couldn't use my mom's and the bus was a pain in the ass. This was Minnesota, so biking was perilous 6 months out of the year. Even when I was living 'at home' I spent as much time as I could with friends so I didn't have to deal.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Uturn on June 15, 2016, 09:51:23 AM
I left at 18, came back for 2 months 8 years later after end of Navy commitment and moved when I found a job.  I got along fine with my folks, but they raised me to be a functioning adult independent of them.  A parent's job is to prepare their children for life outside.  If a child cannot or will not make it on their own, there is probably past mistakes that need to be corrected. 
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Ceridwen on June 15, 2016, 09:51:53 AM
Moved out at 18 to attend university in a different city.  Since around the age of 13, my parents let my sister and I know (lovingly) that we would be moving out at the age of 18 to either attend university or live on our own/work.  It was never a question.  They even discouraged us from applying to local universities since my dad wanted us to live in residence and have the whole "university experience".  Thankfully they saved enough to fully fund this for both of us (Canada - cheap tuition), plus we always had part-time jobs to pay for food and books.

We both returned for our first few summers, but no boomeranging (even when my sister was recently unemployed for nearly 2 years - she collected EI and dipped into her savings to get by).
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: mm1970 on June 15, 2016, 10:33:15 AM
My parents are divorced.  I lived with my mom in a trailer after.
- At 18, went away to college.  Summer after, went back to the trailer, worked 2 jobs (60 hrs/wk total).
- Summer after that and beyond, stayed on campus to work/ do Navy training.  Mom got married that second summer and moved in with step-dad.  1 bedroom house, with a bed in the basement for visits.
- After college went into the Navy.  Got married in the Navy...rest is history.

Siblings:
- Eldest moved out at 18 to go to Xray school in another town, never moved back. (1970)
- Next ... moved out I have no idea when, I was a baby.
- Next ... same thing - 15 yrs older than me.
- Next ... (now I have memory) - 10 yrs older than me.  Got a job after HS, lived at home until she got married at ~21.
- Next ... 6 yrs older than me.  Got a job, lived at home, paid rent.  Moved in with boyfriend before the divorce, so I want to say when she was ~20.
- Last (boomerang?) - the only boy.  Lived at home (with dad) and worked. Went into AF at age 20.  4-5 years in AF.  Moved back home after, lived in Mom's basement, supposed to pay rent but didn't.  Eventually moved out in his late 20's.  Don't remember what eventually got him out.  Maybe step-dad just got tired of him.  I mean, he was a freaking adult.

I can't imagine actually moving into my mom's basement after spending 5 years in the military.  Especially since it wasn't "home", it was her new husband's home.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: mm1970 on June 15, 2016, 10:34:38 AM
Quote
Older Sibling:  Was forced out at age 19.  He was sleeping until noon, working part-time at fast food restaurant, and just hanging out with friends until 1 or 2 in the morning.  My parents gave him 4 choices:
- Go to school full time
- Work full time
- Join the military
- Get out
He chose the military.  20 years later (after he retired), he moved back in with my parents and pretty much fell into the same pattern.  Sleeping late, playing video games, lots of unemployment, the only difference is his military pension.  During an argument about his constant unemployment and his living at home for the last 3-4 years, he let it slip that he was only living there to establish "ownership" of the home so that when they pass, the house would become his only.  It had to do with a some sort of loophole about him being my parents dependent (but not the tax kind) after a certain number of years and therefore would not be able to be evicted in the time of their passing if the house was to be part of an inheritance left to us kids.  Clearly he had done his homework.  After that they told him he had to go.  He moved into an apartment complex across the street, sometimes works part time, lots of unemployment, and plays lots of video games. 

whoa.  I can't even.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Vagabond76 on June 15, 2016, 10:39:12 AM
I moved out at 17 when I went off to college. I spent three of the next four summers at home while working or going to the local campus for summer school. I had no rules, could stay out as late as I wanted, and paid no rent. OTOH, I paid for my food and saved money for the next semester.

I joined the military after grad school. For the 8 weeks before I reported to training and the 6 weeks between trainings, I lived in my father's house or mother's apartment. Again, no rent but I paid for my other costs. This time, I used the money I saved to pay off student loans before they started to accrue interest.

I'm very grateful of the support my parents gave me when I was starting out, but I'm more grateful of the upbringing that taught me how to be self-sufficient and not rely on them, friends, other family, or the government to get through life.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: TrMama on June 15, 2016, 10:51:44 AM
I've always been fiercely independent. Even as a young child I just stopped going to afterschool daycare because I was a noise-sensitive introvert, couldn't handle the chaos and hated having to participate in group activities. I'd slip away after school and just walk home before the daycare workers could find me. My parents are wonderful, loving people, I've just always preferred to be on my own and despise following other people's rules.

I came home from my grade 12 final exams and packed my bags to go to university. I couldn't wait to get away from the small, backward town we lived in and experience the big world outside. I knew there were no opportunities for me there. I came home for the first two summers of university to work and   save money for the next year, but I haven't been back since. My desire to FIRE is just an extension of that same drive to live life on my own terms, rather than being subject to someone else's rules.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Norioch on June 15, 2016, 11:19:34 AM
I moved out when I found a real job. I moved back in when I lost that real job. Then I moved back out again when I finally found another real job. I'm FI now so even if I lost my current job I wouldn't move back in with my parents. I've always highly valued my independence, and when I was living with my parents it was only out of necessity.

So, if these adult children are like me: they want to move out but can't. If they successfully find a job then they'll leave on their own.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: skekses on June 15, 2016, 11:21:17 AM
I wasn't able to find a full-time job while I was still in college, so with my tail tucked between my legs, I moved back in with my dad. He didn't ask for rent, but it was clear that this was not the arrangement he had in mind for that period in my life. I paid for everything else (food, car payment, insurance, etc.) by means of a part-time gig while I was interviewing for full-time positions and the moment that I started full-time, I moved out. I remember that my movers helped re-arrange my former room into some sort of sitting room after they put my furniture in the truck.

After nine years of living on my own and far away from family, I ended up moving across the country to be near them again. I moved in with my mom for about a year and a half while I was adjusting to my new area. I insisted on paying rent to her and it was actually a good arrangement for both of us, but I still felt very aware of living in someone else's space (even when I was renting from non-family people, I had this feeling) and I was ready for my own. Then I bought a house and that's where I am now.

I view the stay with my mom as a trial run for her potentially having to move in with me someday. I'm glad to know that we got along as housemates and I still go over to see her almost daily.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: acroy on June 15, 2016, 11:32:13 AM
I lived on campus during college but 'lived at home' (summers and holidays) until graduation. Had job, apartment, etc set up weeks before graduation. 'Moved' out (everything fit in the bed of my pickup truck, mostly stereo crap and car parts) the week after graduation.

The idea of living with parents post-graduation does not compute. You're an adult, get out there and act like one.

Raising my kids to think the same way. The are young, oldest 10, but understand our job (the parental role) is to turn them into adults, and they will be leaving 'home' immediately after college if not before. It is then no longer their 'home'.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Catbert on June 15, 2016, 12:01:00 PM
I moved out at 19 after I'd been working at an office job for 6 months (FT school at night) because that's what 19 year old adults did in the 1970s.  Within a year of me moving out my alcoholic father moved back in.  That caused my then 19 and 17 year old younger sisters to move out. 
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: mtn on June 15, 2016, 12:26:26 PM
Moved out at 18 when I went to college--moved back in during the summers. After I graduated I had an internship 3 hours away that started 2 weeks after graduation; I lived with my parents during those 2 weeks. Internship turned into a real job, and was on my own or with roommates (and eventually my fiance) until I got a new job back where I grew up. I moved back in with my parents until I got married--9 months. That was as a money saving proposition only.

My wife was nearly identical, except she had some summer school and worked at a summer camp that she lived at for 2 summers somewhere in college.

Older brother was pretty similar except he never moved home after his career started, only between graduation and a job.

Little brother is 23 and kinda... lost. He floundered around in school (lived away from home except summers) and now is back living with Mom and Dad. Works part time at a grocery, is off and on in online classes or community college. Sleeps too much, stays up late, spends a lot of time with his girlfriend who is still in college (and frankly not right for him). I sometimes think he needs to go into the military or something.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Systems101 on June 15, 2016, 12:34:17 PM
I moved out to go to college (which was highly subsidized by parents).  The idea of returning home afterwards didn't even really occur to me.

Same here.  At least part of it because it was a small town with very little opportunity in tech.

I was home for 1 college summer with mom, 1 with dad, and spent 1 with brother (in grad school at the time).  After graduation, long enough to move out...
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Dicey on June 15, 2016, 12:46:38 PM
Hmm, let me see, it was a long time ago...

I'm the oldest of six. I went to Junior College locally, 'cause there was no money for school. My dad was at the peak of his gub'mint career but retirement was looming (He was an Air Traffic Controller and it was 1976), plus there were five stairstep kids after me. I lived at home, worked two jobs + the occasional side gig and went to school full time. (As in, 18 units full time.) I bought my own car  + gas + insurance, paid for my own tuition and books.  My parents mother wanted me to pay rent, which pissed me off royally. I refused and a lot of fighting ensued. I saved my money and got an apartment with a friend when I was about 19. When I finished school, I got a "Career Job" and moved away. The plan was to work a year, declare myself emancipated, and then complete a four-year degree. Six months later I was diagnosed with cancer. Came home during the course of treatment, because the medical care was more affordable in my hometown and my mom was a nurse there. I paid 100% of my own medical care and got the hell out of there when my treatment was finished.

My mom died recently and a dear friend reminded me that my mom very vocally "let" me live at home rent-free during that four-month period. Weird, I'd forgotten about it, but my friend was still righteously pissed on my behalf, more than thirty years later. (Ah, friendship!) My mom could be kind to others, but not particularly so to me. I am proud to say that I never took or borrowed a penny from them after I graduated from high school. Not for college, not for a wedding, not for a home, nothing.

Bitter, party of one? Not really, life's too short and I love, love, love my adult life and my family of origin, flawed as we are. Mostly posting to show not everyone who attains FIRE is a young (-ish) engineer with a fancy degree. Having cancer was what drove me to FIRE and for that I am grateful for the learning experience it offered. I am so damn thankful I made it.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: iris lily on June 15, 2016, 12:48:27 PM
There is a chart out there showing that for,the first time in a century, the primary living arrangement  for young adults 18--30 ish is living with a parent. 34% live with a parent.

31% live with a spouse or SO.


Later, I may see if can find it. But I was shocked.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: BFGirl on June 15, 2016, 02:07:20 PM
I went to college in my hometown, but got a full time job and went to school full time.  Moved out at 19 because my parents thought I still needed a curfew.  Never moved back.  My parents paid my tuition, books and fees, but I paid all my living expenses.

Today, my 18 yr old son and 21 year old daughter live with me.  My son just graduated HS and is planning to go to school in the fall.  He says he will probably stay at home for a couple of years but wants to get an apartment after that.  My daugther dropped out of college a year ago.  I made her get two part time jobs and she pays me a set amount monthly toward her expenses.  She has decided to go back to school in the fall and I told her if she goes full time, I will finance her living expenses with me (car insurance, food, phone).  If she goes part time she will still have to pay me 1/2 of what she's been paying before.  All of her friends are in the process of moving out from their parents' homes.  I've told her that she will need to move out sometime in the next 2-3 years.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: MsPeacock on June 15, 2016, 02:11:28 PM
The parent to child dynamic is what made living at home untenable.


Pretty much this. I left home before my senior year of high school and never went back. I can't imagine any circumstance that would make me go back. Started working a real job (e.g. not babysitting or paper route) when I was 14 and saved money for several years in order to have a little nest egg to get out.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: I'm a red panda on June 15, 2016, 02:20:34 PM
Why did YOU move out of your parent's home?
First to go to college, which was a state university out of town. They paid my rent though :)    Against their wishes I chose a modest apartment with a roommate instead of one of the fancy ones where you pay per person on separate leases, but each least costs more than our total rent did!

(Scholarships mostly paid my tuition, but they made up the difference. I wasn't allowed to work the first two years "school is your job"; the last two years I held multiple part time jobs to earn some extra money.)  After that there was never even a bit of thought I'd move back in, but I moved in with my husband. We moved to another state because he joined the Air Force.


Why did you look for a job that took you away, or what "house rules" or annoyances encouraged you to become independent?

The family expectation was ALWAYS after high school you go to college. After college you are on your own.  There were no other options. Not getting a job was not an option.  Leaving college I had a number of job offers, of which I was able to take none because I moved with my husband. But I quickly found a job, the income from which we saved since his salary was more than enough for two.

My parents aren't horrible so I suppose if I needed to I may have been able to live with them while unemployed, but even as an adult, I was expected to follow curfew and no boys in the bedroom if not married rules, so there is no way I'd move back in with them if I had any ability not to.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: TravelJunkyQC on June 15, 2016, 02:22:00 PM
Left at 17 for college - always returned home every summer. "Officially" left when I got a job after my last year of undergraduate. I would always have been welcomed back had I needed it, but I wasn't particularly keen on the idea. I adore my parents, but I have a very strong need to be independent financially. They respect this and understand it doesn't affect my love for them.

My sister moved back home for a year and a half after graduate school while she figured out her next move. Wasn't required to pay anything, but she worked the entire time and put money away to start her now-thriving business.

It's sort of standard policy in our family that when you're at someone's house, you don't open a wallet. Usually it's for a week or two during the holidays, my parents just extended it to a year and a half. Had she been a lazy bum, she surely would have been whipped into shape though.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: RFAAOATB on June 15, 2016, 02:34:42 PM
Quote
Older Sibling:  Was forced out at age 19.  He was sleeping until noon, working part-time at fast food restaurant, and just hanging out with friends until 1 or 2 in the morning.  My parents gave him 4 choices:
- Go to school full time
- Work full time
- Join the military
- Get out
He chose the military.  20 years later (after he retired), he moved back in with my parents and pretty much fell into the same pattern.  Sleeping late, playing video games, lots of unemployment, the only difference is his military pension.  During an argument about his constant unemployment and his living at home for the last 3-4 years, he let it slip that he was only living there to establish "ownership" of the home so that when they pass, the house would become his only.  It had to do with a some sort of loophole about him being my parents dependent (but not the tax kind) after a certain number of years and therefore would not be able to be evicted in the time of their passing if the house was to be part of an inheritance left to us kids.  Clearly he had done his homework.  After that they told him he had to go.  He moved into an apartment complex across the street, sometimes works part time, lots of unemployment, and plays lots of video games. 

whoa.  I can't even.

Does this story describe chronic unemployment or a well earned early retirement after military service?   By describing this older sibling as a slacker, I have to ask what rank was he when he got out?  Yesterday I wanted to take a two week vacation from work just to play Warcraft so I understand the appeal.

Anyways it was the ARMY that got me out of my parent's house nearly two years after graduating college and sticking around a dead end job.  My brother is still there at 29 despite mom and dad slowly pushing him to move out.  Guy couldn't graduate college after years of trying, has five figures of student and credit card debt, and when he's not working his decent tech support job is volunteering for the local GOP chapters.

Wealth inequality within families is something I might have to deal with which means I should ask my dad how he deals with being much more successful than his brothers. 
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: MerryMcQ on June 15, 2016, 02:44:28 PM
I returned home for 2 summer breaks during college, but the last two I had my own apartment & job. I also lived with my parents for a month when I was pregnant with my second child and very, very ill. I spent a month in the hospital, and could only get discharged from the hospital if I had someone with me 24/7 and was within minutes of hospital -  my parents house was the only place that fit and they were both retired.

It was a miserable month and my parents resented me being there and really resented driving me to the emergency room twice. My parents refused to visit my newborn in the hospital and they didn't speak to me (or see my son) for 6 months after that. It permanently damaged our relationship as well as their relationship with my son.

Actually, I still get bothered by how cruel they were to me when my son and I almost died.

I've told my kids that they are both welcome to live here during/after college or anytime they are in need - but they need to have jobs and/or be in school, pay for their own insurance/phone/car gas/etc. I want them to be independent adults. But I have told them both that I will always be there for them if they have an emergency and need a place or someone to care for them.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: seattlecyclone on June 15, 2016, 02:47:13 PM
Why did YOU move out of your parent's home?
First to go to college, which was a state university out of town. They paid my rent though :)    Against their wishes I chose a modest apartment with a roommate instead of one of the fancy ones where you pay per person on separate leases, but each least costs more than our total rent did!

(Scholarships mostly paid my tuition, but they made up the difference. I wasn't allowed to work the first two years "school is your job"; the last two years I held multiple part time jobs to earn some extra money.)  After that there was never even a bit of thought I'd move back in, but I moved in with my husband. We moved to another state because he joined the Air Force.


Why did you look for a job that took you away, or what "house rules" or annoyances encouraged you to become independent?

The family expectation was ALWAYS after high school you go to college. After college you are on your own.  There were no other options. Not getting a job was not an option.  Leaving college I had a number of job offers, of which I was able to take none because I moved with my husband. But I quickly found a job, the income from which we saved since his salary was more than enough for two.

My parents aren't horrible so I suppose if I needed to I may have been able to live with them while unemployed, but even as an adult, I was expected to follow curfew and no boys in the bedroom if not married rules, so there is no way I'd move back in with them if I had any ability not to.


I think expectations are a big thing here. I stayed with my parents the summer after freshman year of college but never since. They never flat out told me I couldn't have stayed with them after my sophomore year (or whatever), and my younger sisters both did spend more time at home after high school than I did, but the expectation was always that we should try to find jobs that pay enough for us to live on our own.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: mozar on June 15, 2016, 02:48:58 PM
I officially moved out my senior year of college. My mom didn't want me to move out while I was still in college. It was helpful that I could stay during the summers but I couldn't take the emotional abuse anymore. I think I came back twice for one month each time after losing jobs.
It seems like there are young people who stay at home because its in their culture, or young men who are struggling with untreated mental health issues.
I have a tenant who is a 25yo man. I wouldn't consider him launched because his dad pays the rent. It's a good deal for me but I wonder if he's going to get it together.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: MrsDinero on June 15, 2016, 02:54:08 PM
Quote
Older Sibling:  Was forced out at age 19.  He was sleeping until noon, working part-time at fast food restaurant, and just hanging out with friends until 1 or 2 in the morning.  My parents gave him 4 choices:
- Go to school full time
- Work full time
- Join the military
- Get out
He chose the military.  20 years later (after he retired), he moved back in with my parents and pretty much fell into the same pattern.  Sleeping late, playing video games, lots of unemployment, the only difference is his military pension.  During an argument about his constant unemployment and his living at home for the last 3-4 years, he let it slip that he was only living there to establish "ownership" of the home so that when they pass, the house would become his only.  It had to do with a some sort of loophole about him being my parents dependent (but not the tax kind) after a certain number of years and therefore would not be able to be evicted in the time of their passing if the house was to be part of an inheritance left to us kids.  Clearly he had done his homework.  After that they told him he had to go.  He moved into an apartment complex across the street, sometimes works part time, lots of unemployment, and plays lots of video games. 

whoa.  I can't even.

Does this story describe chronic unemployment or a well earned early retirement after military service?   By describing this older sibling as a slacker, I have to ask what rank was he when he got out? 

Without going into a lot of details he was demoted twice and eventually retired as an E-5.  Had he been a civilian he would have been fired many times and most likely had charges brought against him several times.  We view his military pension as a means to keep him from being dependent on all of us not as a reward for a "job well done". 
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: spicykissa on June 15, 2016, 02:58:47 PM
I moved across the country for college at 18, and came home for the first summer. I went back to my high school job and was still with my high school boyfriend, and my parents put all the high school rules back in place (11pm curfew, no boys in my room, etc, etc). It was miserable--and then high school boyfriend dumped me, and I met my now-husband, and stayed out until 1am on our first date. My father threatened to call the police. It was unpleasant (though makes for a funny story now). I worked fulltime on campus and stayed in my own apartment every summer after that!

My husband floundered a little after his graduation, and moved in with his widowed grandfather. It was a good arrangement for  both of them for awhile, and he eventually found a low-paying job and started saving & paying off debt. When I graduated two years later, it was obviously no longer a good fit, and Grandpa wanted his house back. I wanted our own place, even though we could barely afford it and I had only found a part-time job in his hometown. My husband hemmed and hawed, so Grandpa did two things--he shut off the internet (which he himself barely used) and told my husband I had to sleep on the couch, not in his room, because he was going back to church and "didn't feel right about it", since we weren't married yet. We had our own apartment by the end of the month!
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Jesstache on June 15, 2016, 03:21:18 PM
I left NY to go to college in FL at 17 (paid for my own college as well).  Spent my summers living at home and working lots of hours to pay for school living expenses  Summer between junior and senior year, I stayed in FL to take summer classes and work my two part time jobs.  January of my senior year I had accepted a very well paying job in TX that started a few weeks after I graduated.  So I never went back to living at home after the summer between Sophomore and Junior year. 

There are multiple reasons for not wanting to live at home, I do remember there being lots of friction the first summer with my parents treating me as if I hadn't just lived 1000 miles away by myself (11 o'clock curfew, mom waiting up for me to come home from work, no boyfriends over (even though I didn't have any) and trying to get me to hang out with old friends of mine who I tried to repeatedly tell them I was no longer friends with (due to them becoming involved in drugs and hanging out with other nefarious characters).  I also was not a huge fan of the area I grew up in, economy wise, weather wise and I had no good friends there as the only ones who stayed behind weren't doing much with their lives and I just could not relate. 

I remember my mom telling me several times that I could move back home if I ever wanted to or needed to but knew that would NEVER happen and I don't think her and my father would have enjoyed that, I know I wouldn't.  My (4 years older) sister also moved out permanently before finishing college, I don't know if she even came back during any of her summers off, it's all a bit fuzzy as she was only an hour away for college so she visited some but really, her and my dad did not get along at all so she was extra motivated to move out (they get along great these days). 
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: randymarsh on June 15, 2016, 03:22:17 PM
I had a job offer in another state that was too good to pass up. However, if it wasn't for that job offer, I would have likely stayed at my internship as a full time employee. Moving out ASAP would not have made much sense. My parents lived within 20 minutes of that job and I had no interest in living in the town the job was in.

This idea that children are supposed to move out as soon as they turn 18 or graduate college seems to be an American phenomenon. I don't see what the big deal is with adult children living at home as long as they're doing something (aka working/in school) and contributing in some way to the household (rent, cleaning up, feeding the dog, etc). 
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: HappyHoya on June 15, 2016, 03:28:48 PM
I had a job offer in another state that was too good to pass up. However, if it wasn't for that job offer, I would have likely stayed at my internship as a full time employee. Moving out ASAP would not have made much sense. My parents lived within 20 minutes of that job and I had no interest in living in the town the job was in.

This idea that children are supposed to move out as soon as they turn 18 or graduate college seems to be an American phenomenon. I don't see what the big deal is with adult children living at home as long as they're doing something (aka working/in school) and contributing in some way to the household (rent, cleaning up, feeding the dog, etc).


Perhaps I am biased because I am the PP who was basically forced out by combative parents, but I agree with your POV. Living with other people is an important life skill and opportunity for personal growth. Given that houses are usually too big for the people that live in them, I don't see what the big deal is either. Of course, all relationships need to be a 2-way street so if the adult child is disrespectful and not willing to pull their weight and exercise basic cooperation, I guess there's not much you can do. That's sort of on the parents if that's the case, though, isn't it?
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: justplucky on June 15, 2016, 03:41:12 PM
I moved out for the last time at age 25 (before I had just left for two years to go to college across the state). I was scared to do it on my own but realized I wasn't living life, and a friend-of-a-friend (who eventually became my friend) was in the same boat. We ended up being roommates in a cheap apartment.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: ketchup on June 15, 2016, 03:48:43 PM
I moved out at 20 in 2012. 

I had bought a (small, cheap, seller-financed) house, and my girlfriend was moving across the country to move in with me to said house (with SIL/BIL in tow).  She was 19, and SIL/BIL were 21/25.

I wanted to move out from my parents' house mostly to move in with GF/SIL/BIL and "get real life started."  I had enough income to support myself, and solid savings.

The three of them wanted out because they had been living in a toxic environment with my GF's grandma in ghetto inner-city Phoenix around all kinds of badness.

Then we bought a second house about a year ago (at 24/22) and BIL/SIL stayed behind in the other house and pay me rent (and the first house is almost paid off!).  This was partially for space/privacy reasons, and also because we had "grown apart" somewhat from BIL/SIL in terms of domestic values.  And my GF works at home when she's not traveling, so she wanted more "peace and quiet" for that.  And with the rent BIL/SIL are paying for the other house, our living costs haven't really changed much overall anyway.

My GF has a useless friend in her 20s that has moved out of (and back into) her parents' house at least five times in the past four years due to being kicked out of a roommate scenario.  She's a domestic disaster and horrible, horrible roommate, but can't afford to live alone (due to laziness on the income side and stupidness on the spending side).  I have no idea what I would do if I were her parents.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: CowboyAndIndian on June 15, 2016, 04:27:58 PM
This idea that children are supposed to move out as soon as they turn 18 or graduate college seems to be an American phenomenon. I don't see what the big deal is with adult children living at home as long as they're doing something (aka working/in school) and contributing in some way to the household (rent, cleaning up, feeding the dog, etc).

+1

I kept going back home between semesters. Also, there were no jobs available in India that a student could do.
My parent paid for my undergraduate degree, room and food, but the other two masters were paid out of scholarships/assitantships.

I did the same for my son. He came home for summer and I paid for his college and good and trips back. He moved out immediately after graduation for a job.  When a job change brought him near to us, he refused to move in, got his own apartment.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Spork on June 15, 2016, 04:32:58 PM
This idea that children are supposed to move out as soon as they turn 18 or graduate college seems to be an American phenomenon. I don't see what the big deal is with adult children living at home as long as they're doing something (aka working/in school) and contributing in some way to the household (rent, cleaning up, feeding the dog, etc).

I think the problem is there is a growing number of adult children living at home that are NOT doing something.

Admittedly: I am basing this on "articles I read online" and "a small sample of personal acquaintances".  I don't actually know this is a growing problem.  But it seems to continually be article fodder.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: onlykelsey on June 15, 2016, 04:39:28 PM
I left when I was 17 the summer before college and literally did not set foot in the county for ~8 years after that. 
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Ethernet on June 15, 2016, 04:49:19 PM
19. Leaving in two months. Basically my parents are a bit controlling and they've caused a lot of emotional and mental turmoil with their on and off relationship. Their spending habits are insane and they expect me to keep up with them (I am not putting money towards a new stereo system no matter how many times you continue to ask me). It's honestly the last thing I wanted to do, as I haven't even finished my associates yet and I basically only qualify for unskilled manual labor, so I guess Im a bit of an oddball compared to the lot of you.

Dads company just got bought, his job is probably in the toilet in the next few months.

C'est la vie.  At least now if I crash and burn I only have myself to blame.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: ender on June 15, 2016, 04:53:36 PM
I moved out to go to college (which was highly subsidized by parents).  The idea of returning home afterwards didn't even really occur to me.

Same - it never really occurred to me in my thinking.

A lot of these stories scare me as a hopeful future parent. I like to think that you can mitigate the risk by actively parenting and being involved in the lives of my kids. But..
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Spiffsome on June 15, 2016, 04:59:11 PM
I moved out at 20, while still at university, because I was fighting with my parents regularly. When I got a holiday job which allowed me to rent a room in a share house, I was outta there.

The relationship between me and my folks improved dramatically once we weren't living together. 
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Noodle on June 15, 2016, 05:04:49 PM
All the time my sibs and I were growing up, our folks made it clear that their expectation was that we would be out of the house and doing something at age 18. They encouraged and financially supported college, but also made clear they understood that it was not for everyone--so trade school, the military or work were all OK too. (They also sweetened the deal with lots of stories about how much fun it was to be at college, making new friends, going to parties, etc) We grew up in fairly rural areas so it was also very motivating to get the heck out and be around different people (this was back in the days before internet, Amazon, etc so when you were living somewhere rural you were missing out on a lot that was available in bigger cities.)
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: goldensam on June 15, 2016, 05:30:00 PM
I grew up in a physically, emotionally, and sexually abusive low income household. When I was 16, my mom started dating what would quickly become her 6th husband (and then 6th divorce) and I hated him immediately. So, she gave me two choices: accept him or move out. I moved out. I crashed with friends whose parents were thankfully very understanding for my junior and senior years of high school until I followed my HS boyfriend to college. This was a big deal because finishing high school wasn't really a common occurrence in my family and no one had ever gone to college. I was really inspired by my BF's dad and the fact that he had also grown up poor and had become very successful. Plus I wanted to be near the BF, so off I went. I lived in the dorms the first year, shared an apartment with two roommates the next two years, and had my own shitty apartment my senior year. I accepted a job offer and started full time one week after graduation, which required a move to another state.

I am the oldest of the four of us. The next one went to college after I did and I'm so proud of her. She lived on her own immediately after high school and has never gone back. She bought her own house in her late 20s. The next youngest just moved out within the past month. She is almost 20, works part time, and goes to community college part time. The youngest is still in middle school and is the kid my mom had with the 6th husband. It turned out my instinct was right and he has been nothing but a total douche since the divorce. Mom says he is her biggest mistake, but she would die before she would ever admit I was right.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Zikoris on June 15, 2016, 08:43:06 PM
I moved out at 18 when my mom married someone really disgusting. I'm not a cleanliness freak by any means, but I'm simply unwilling to live with people who don't shower or wash their clothes, or stick chewed up gum to random surfaces in the house, etc etc. It was pretty rash actually - I decided to move two weeks before I did, and moved halfway across Canada.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: LeRainDrop on June 15, 2016, 10:30:02 PM
Why did YOU move out of your parent's home?  Why did you look for a job that took you away, or what "house rules" or annoyances encouraged you to become independent?
. . .

What about you?  Why did you move out of your home?

What would work to get Adult "guests" out of your home more quickly?

My youngest brother and I each moved out at age 18 to go to college several hundred miles away from home.  I think we each lived at "home" for the first college summer and then visited during other college breaks.  We both were very driven and our parents did a great job raising us to be independent.  We got good jobs out of college and supported ourselves because that's just what we thought was the natural course of development.  Also, we each wanted to stay in our college area, near friends and significant others.

My middle brother bounced back and forth between some college here, home there, different college, home again, etc.  He finally moved out just as he turned 30 because my parents ran into financial trouble, had to sell the family home pretty quickly, and got divorced in one fell swoop.  The timing worked well to shove him out of the nest -- with a large gift of money, lucky fellow -- so that he could move across the country to begin his way up in his industry.  By the time he made his way across the country and spent all his money in doing so, he had no choice but to work his butt off to survive out there.

ETA:  After her divorce from my dad, my mom lived with me in my condo for awhile.  She relocated several hundred miles, and so I had offered to have her stay a short time so that she could find work, get her own place, and get set up.  Alas, she struggled for a few months, probably depressed, and did not make any headway on getting a job.  After those few months, I told her that she absolutely just had to get a job, even if it wasn't in the industry that she wanted and even if the commute was a little longer than she wanted.  I think I basically told her that she had to do it because it would probably help her self-esteem to be back out there working with people and being productive, plus it just wasn't working for me to constantly have her at home all the frickin' time.  I had gone from living alone for several years to suddenly having my able-bodied mom sitting in my living room 100% of my waking/non-work hours, and I was about to go crazy.  She got a good job pretty quickly after that, but just continued to stay with me as time went by and I started hinting more forcefully that she should be looking for her own place.  Eventually, I had to tell her that I was going to start charging her (nominal) rent if she didn't move out by X date, and then I actually followed through on that.  She was like, "You're really charging me rent?"  And I was like, "Uh, yes.  I gave you lots of notice that I would."  Her move-out took awhile to come to fruition -- I helped with searching for places, visiting them, asking questions of the landlords, negotiating her lease, etc. -- till it finally happened.  I think we eventually got to the point where I was like, "Look, this is making me very stressed out and I'm sure it's stressing you out, too.  Let's get you set up in your own, safe place, so that we can get back to having our normal, excellent relationship instead of getting on each other's nerves all the time."
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: obstinate on June 15, 2016, 10:42:36 PM
I'll bet if you charged them above market rate rent, they'd probably leave eventually.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: elaine amj on June 15, 2016, 10:57:25 PM
I had no thought of moving out until I got married. Ended up getting married while in college so moved out :)

My DH stayed with his Mom and Grandma all his life. He was comfortable and also never considered moving out (cultural thing too I guess). Sure helped with saving $$! Shortly after we decided to get married, he asked if I would be OK moving in with his then 90+ yr old grandma since it was unlikely she would have long. Two babies later, I was going out of my mind since Mom and Grandma both interfered endlessly with raising them. After I told him I had reached the end of my rope, we moved out to our own house 2 months later. Of course, we only had about 2 years of privacy before his Mom moved in with us for 10 years (poor health). She moved to a nursing home last year and its been nice to have our privacy back although the kids still miss her.

I have been warning my kids (teens now) that they need to be prepared to be self-supporting once they graduate high school. I probably won't kick them out right away but it all depends on my FIRE plans. Better to be prepared :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: abiteveryday on June 15, 2016, 11:05:22 PM
I moved out at 19 to go to a state school after a year at community college.  I lived with roommates off campus.   I lived at home again for a few months when I was 23, but then headed back out permanently.   I got along fine wth my parents, and didn't feel constrained by living there, but I just found a little separation try be better for personal growth.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: DeltaBond on June 16, 2016, 05:41:12 AM
I moved out because I just didn't like living with my parents.  They were parents and I realize now that there was emotional abuse going on... but yeah, when home isn't comfortable, kids move out.

My sibling has a child who's 25 and plays WOW all day, literally.  Quite college after one semester, and just parked his butt at home.  I personally feel that could have been solved by just cancelling the internet service for a little while.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: driftwood on June 16, 2016, 06:23:18 AM
For us growing up we were expected to move out after high school.  If we were going to college locally we were welcome to stay and pay rent (really, cheap rate though, maybe $150/mo).  Being the third of six siblings I was expected to continue to follow the existing house rules, but did not have a curfew and could do what I wanted outside of the home.

After high school I did one semester at the local community college then joined the Army. After six years in the Army I got out and I was home for a few months before I found a college across the country I wanted to attend, so I moved out again then.  I think I was supposed to pay rent but I traded the room for work around the house instead.  I had plenty of energy/time for chores and projects so it was a win/win. 
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Ellsie Equanimity on June 16, 2016, 07:30:36 AM
This idea that children are supposed to move out as soon as they turn 18 or graduate college seems to be an American phenomenon. I don't see what the big deal is with adult children living at home as long as they're doing something (aka working/in school) and contributing in some way to the household (rent, cleaning up, feeding the dog, etc).

I think the problem is there is a growing number of adult children living at home that are NOT doing something.

Admittedly: I am basing this on "articles I read online" and "a small sample of personal acquaintances".  I don't actually know this is a growing problem.  But it seems to continually be article fodder.

http://web.stanford.edu/~mrosenfe/Rosenfeld_live_Indep_MFT_magazine.pdf
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: mm1970 on June 16, 2016, 01:11:58 PM
This idea that children are supposed to move out as soon as they turn 18 or graduate college seems to be an American phenomenon. I don't see what the big deal is with adult children living at home as long as they're doing something (aka working/in school) and contributing in some way to the household (rent, cleaning up, feeding the dog, etc).

I think the problem is there is a growing number of adult children living at home that are NOT doing something.

Admittedly: I am basing this on "articles I read online" and "a small sample of personal acquaintances".  I don't actually know this is a growing problem.  But it seems to continually be article fodder.

No, I think there's a bit of truth to this, and I don't know why.  It wasn't terribly uncommon back when I was a kid for adults to live with their parents for awhile.  For one thing, most just got jobs out of HS and didn't get paid much.  (Though most did pay their parents a bit of rent).  For another, it was a rural area with not a lot of options on where to live.

But I guess in my family, most kids were out by about age 21 - in the military or in an apartment with friends or married.

I'm in a different demographic right now.  I work with a number of Director/ VP level men around age 60.  It's interesting.  I was thinking about it earlier today - these men are upper middle class for sure.  (Though they didn't necessarily start that way, they worked their way up with hard work and smarts.)  But their kids aren't as successful.  Is it that times are harder, or the kids have it easier, or are they a product of the times or their upper middle class lifestyle?

One of them has a 30 year old son who is a musician.  Hard to make a living at that, so he's working as a campground host for $10 an hour, but can live there for free.
One of them has a 28 year old son who works in retail at an electronics store.  Couch surfs a lot for a place to live.  Not motivated?
One of them has a 25 year old son who graduated college.  This coworker mentioned that I should get my son into a really busy exhausting sport...keeps them out of trouble.  However, his kid just completed a year long live-in drug/ alcohol program, and is still struggling to get back on track.

It's interesting that it's all men, not the daughters.
It's interesting that it's all upper class white boys.

(On the flip side, I know plenty of engineers the same age who are self-sufficient.  And several who continued to live at home to save money after graduating college, while working good paying jobs.)  And my Step dad lived with his parents (except for his Army time) until he was in  his 40s and married my mom.

Now.  I don't particularly want my boys boomeranging after college.  House is kinda small for that.  But I guess if my (future) 22 year old has a job in town, and still wants to sleep in the top bunk above his 17 yo brother to save up money, I'd consider it.  As long as he follows the house rules and pays rent.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: mtn on June 16, 2016, 01:22:37 PM
I think there are a lot of things that factor into what you've said mm1970.

(For reference, I'm 26)

I won't be as successful as my dad. Well, I might be, but I'm not willing to work as hard as he did for it and I don't think I'll have the same growth opportunities that he did anyways (more competition now--a lot more college degrees and women in the workplace now than when dad started). I've lived the upper-middle class life he provided, and I wasn't any more or less happy then than when I was living a lower-middle class life out of college.
Second, my dad could pay for college at a private school by working in the summer. I did that to, and with scholarships, a job that paid way more than average for a middle school/high school/college kid during the summer, and a part time job during the school year (and summer too), I could get 75% of my public college costs not including my car, insurance, and phone. I was lucky that my parents provided the rest, because I don't have student loans now. I think a lot more kids now are saddled with student debt than were back then, and that causes people to live at home.
Lastly, the housing market to my knowledge (I could be wrong) has inflated way more than incomes--even after the bubble burst. Dad bought a house that was 1/2 of his income in 1978. I'll be lucky to buy one for twice my wife's and my combined incomes, and most other things are equal in that comparison.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Vagabond76 on June 16, 2016, 01:57:34 PM
It's interesting that it's all men, not the daughters.
It's interesting that it's all upper class white boys.

It seems in our quest for gender equality, society brought men down below their potential as much as it raised women's potential.

I've already told my kids (15, 13, and 12 year-old girls) that they aren't boomeranging back home.  To hammer that point home, I can retire from the military the year the last one graduates high school.  Then I execute my retirement plan:  two small two bedroom houses or condos; one on a Florida beach and one in the Colorado mountains.  There won't be room for them to move back in for more than a short visit.

Plus, I taught them a solid financial foundation, a paid for college education, and start them off with a substantial 'stache (prolly in the neighborhood of $500k each) in a trust.  It's up to them to use it wisely and not blow it.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: mxt0133 on June 16, 2016, 01:58:56 PM
Dad bought a house that was 1/2 of his income in 1978. I'll be lucky to buy one for twice my wife's and my combined incomes, and most other things are equal in that comparison.

One reason for the increase in housing prices relative to income is lifestyle inflation.  Square footage is bigger, materials are better, and the house has more amenities.  If you were to build the same house you dad bought it wouldn't cost nearly as much compared to the average 2100sf builder make nowadays.

But to support your point the median income has not grown as much as the top 10% of incomes.  So yes, it's those people in the top 10% that are driving prices up because they can afford to buy more than just one home.  Perfect example is San Francisco, besides the tech industry workers driving up prices, foreigners are buying property as investments and not living in them further lowering inventory and driving up prices.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: HappyHoya on June 16, 2016, 01:59:47 PM
I agree with a lot of what mtn said. I am the oldest of a very spread out group of siblings and I see the younger ones and their peers having a very different approach to life, but I don't think it's all on them. I feel like I had a huge advantage in life (even though none of it was handed to me) by being able to go to college (while working) before the big recent recession. I was able to work, save, and feel what that freedom and accomplishment meant to me. They are not motivated by the same things and I can't tell if I've just drank the cool-aid and they are more laid back, or if it's because it's so much harder for them to get those initial successes that feed into a habit of being successful and responsible. Combine that with endless jokes about millennials and how they are all big babies and frankly, I don't blame them. I wouldn't want to work harder than the people before me to not only get less rewards, but to be criticized along the way. Whatever reality is, there is a very strong negative perception and young people just don't have the life experience to know to take it all with a grain of salt. I can't honestly say that I know how I would have acted if I were just ten years younger.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: mtn on June 16, 2016, 02:10:36 PM
Dad bought a house that was 1/2 of his income in 1978. I'll be lucky to buy one for twice my wife's and my combined incomes, and most other things are equal in that comparison.

One reason for the increase in housing prices relative to income is lifestyle inflation.  Square footage is bigger, materials are better, and the house has more amenities.  If you were to build the same house you dad bought it wouldn't cost nearly as much compared to the average 2100sf builder make nowadays.


I'm not so sure on this. I feel like a lot of homes that I've been in built today are just not built as well as the old ones are/were. And what amenities do I have in a house that my dad did not in 1976? Everything is improved, sure, but other than a microwave and cable for tv I can't think of much that is "new". Heck, the last place I lived didn't even have central AC whereas his did!

Some of that I'm sure is that the crappy houses back then didn't make it to now though.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: markbike528CBX on June 16, 2016, 02:18:28 PM
Following. 

We have friends with 29 and 25yr olds still in the house. 
If my mommy and daddy paid for all my drinks at the bars, I might consider home life worth it, but I hope I'm better than that. 

We also have 21 and 20 (SO) in the house sometimes, the dad of the 21yr old lives right around the corner, so they are mostly at the other house lately.

I like the guest room idea.   We have to gut and redoo thier former bedroom anyway.

Me:  College, back for freshman and senior years summers, no real problems.   I seemed to have the "automatic" notion that I should move on (and out) at some point.

My mother moved in with me after a divorce.   
I told her "You need to be in at a reasonable hour!" -- but just in fun.
A shared studio was a little tight, but it worked out far better than I would have expected (she was there about a year).

edit- grammar
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: MrsDinero on June 16, 2016, 03:03:08 PM
Is it that times are harder, or the kids have it easier, or are they a product of the times or their upper middle class lifestyle?

...

It's interesting that it's all men, not the daughters.
It's interesting that it's all upper class white boys.

I've been wondering about this too.  My (unofficial, unscientific) theory is that with each generation of new parents always want their kids to have it better than they did.  With this it is creating certain "natural" expectations from the next kid generation.  When the kids become parents they don't focus on what their parents gave them, they always seem to remember the things they never got. 

Parent: "I never got to play sports so my kid is going to play all the sports."  Never mind that when they were a kid they got unstructured play and built amazing structures with their Legos, no they just remember what they didn't get.

I also think that all this "Do what you love and never work a day in your life" makes a lot of very unrealistic job expectations.  I remember my father doing jobs that most people would turn their noses up today.  He didn't do it because he loved it.  I didn't fullfilled every hope and dream he had, he did it because he had a family to house and feed. 

While we all want our kids to be happy, I see a lot of 20's and 30's unemployed because their job didn't make them happy or it wasn't what they thought it would be. 

I have more to add about the daughters and sons but I will have to revisit this post later.

Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: AlwaysLearningToSave on June 16, 2016, 03:19:53 PM
It's interesting that it's all men, not the daughters.
It's interesting that it's all upper class white boys.

I, too, see an anecdotal general pattern of young men being more likely to flounder and young women being more likely to thrive. 

I'm not sure what to attribute it to, but my best speculative theory so far is the changing nature of the work.  There are fewer opportunities to make a living with manual labor or physical talent.  Women are socialized from a young age to be more emotionally intelligent and skillful at managing relationships, which are skills essential to success in the modern workplace.  Young men are more likely to lack the soft skills they need to be successful, even if they are otherwise talented and capable. 
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: mozar on June 16, 2016, 05:15:28 PM
Quote
I'm not sure what to attribute it to, but my best speculative theory so far is the changing nature of the work.  There are fewer opportunities to make a living with manual labor or physical talent.  Women are socialized from a young age to be more emotionally intelligent and skillful at managing relationships, which are skills essential to success in the modern workplace.  Young men are more likely to lack the soft skills they need to be successful, even if they are otherwise talented and capable.

I agree with this but I wonder, didn't upper class baby boomer men flounder for awhile before they became yuppies in the 80's? My 3 uncles weren't hippies exactly but they all struggled as young men to find stable work and didn't really get good jobs until their 30's.

The income's of lower class men has been declining and women's income has never caught up as women still make less than men, which is a whole different issue. The OP doesn't say which group they are talking about.
Article about income stagnation:http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/04/womens-wages-are-rising-why-are-so-many-families-getting-poorer/359991/
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: ender on June 16, 2016, 06:38:25 PM
I'm not sure what to attribute it to, but my best speculative theory so far is the changing nature of the work.  There are fewer opportunities to make a living with manual labor or physical talent.  Women are socialized from a young age to be more emotionally intelligent and skillful at managing relationships, which are skills essential to success in the modern workplace.  Young men are more likely to lack the soft skills they need to be successful, even if they are otherwise talented and capable.

Pornography and video games?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/porn-and-video-game-addiction-are-leading-to-masculinity-crisis-says-stanford-prison-experiment-10238211.html

*inb4anecdotalexperiences-->categorigallydisagreeingwithme*
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: JustTrying on June 16, 2016, 07:29:55 PM
I moved out from ages 17-21 to attend college. Moved back for 3 years, which my parents made super easy on me - no rent, I ate their food, was horribly messy and unhelpful with cleaning, they didn't enforce any rules or curfews, etc. Moved out at age 24 to go to graduate school across the country. I think the way to get me out would have been if they had given me a curfew. My parents didn't help us pay for college, so I think they viewed letting me live with them after graduation as a way to help me out with my student loans. But...I wouldn't want my adult child living with me after college!
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Ladychips on June 16, 2016, 08:15:48 PM
Lived with my dad until my junior year of (local) college.  Moved out about a month after he remarried.  Loved living with my dad.  Hated living with his wife (but in hindsight, I needed to move out to give them a life together).  My mom sent me $20 a month so that I could afford an apartment with a shower (instead of just a bathtub).  I was very grateful.

Never moved back home but did move in with my grandma for about a year (very common in my family; I bet she had 15 different family members live with her over the years).

Funny thing is, now 30 years later, after living in a couple of other states,  I live next door to my dad...and the same wife he married all those years ago!
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: StarBright on June 17, 2016, 07:35:58 AM
Quote
I'm not sure what to attribute it to, but my best speculative theory so far is the changing nature of the work.  There are fewer opportunities to make a living with manual labor or physical talent.  Women are socialized from a young age to be more emotionally intelligent and skillful at managing relationships, which are skills essential to success in the modern workplace.  Young men are more likely to lack the soft skills they need to be successful, even if they are otherwise talented and capable.

I agree with this but I wonder, didn't upper class baby boomer men flounder for awhile before they became yuppies in the 80's? My 3 uncles weren't hippies exactly but they all struggled as young men to find stable work and didn't really get good jobs until their 30's.

The income's of lower class men has been declining and women's income has never caught up as women still make less than men, which is a whole different issue. The OP doesn't say which group they are talking about.
Article about income stagnation:http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/04/womens-wages-are-rising-why-are-so-many-families-getting-poorer/359991/

My baby boomer dad definitely lived with his parent into his mid twenties and floundered a bit (this would have been in the 70s). He'd go to school and work part time for a semester or two and then take 3-4 months off and ride trains around Europe, then go back to school again, then take more time off to go on an extended camping/hiking trip out west. He lived with his folks until he got married to my mom. Then he settled down and finished his degree and got the stable job.

Maybe it is a midwest thing, but I'm pretty sure all of my aunts and most of my uncles (and my parents) lived at home until they were married. The next generation (X's and Millennials), in contrast, has been much more likely to move out younger, but conversely, more likely to bounce back when jobs or divorces hit - interesting.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: AlwaysLearningToSave on June 17, 2016, 08:05:02 AM
Quote
I'm not sure what to attribute it to, but my best speculative theory so far is the changing nature of the work.  There are fewer opportunities to make a living with manual labor or physical talent.  Women are socialized from a young age to be more emotionally intelligent and skillful at managing relationships, which are skills essential to success in the modern workplace.  Young men are more likely to lack the soft skills they need to be successful, even if they are otherwise talented and capable.

I agree with this but I wonder, didn't upper class baby boomer men flounder for awhile before they became yuppies in the 80's?  . . .

My baby boomer dad definitely lived with his parent into his mid twenties and floundered a bit (this would have been in the 70s).
. . .

Maybe its nothing new.  Girls mature more quickly than boys, even from a very young age.  Maybe young women have always been generally "ahead of the game" compared to men of the same age but the difference is more apparent now that young women have much more equal economic opportunities than they have had in earlier generations.  Or maybe its not an actual phenomenon and we just perceive it to be based on anecdotal experiences.  Who knows...
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: By the River on June 17, 2016, 08:08:36 AM
I lived at home during the first two summers when I was in college.  I had an internship for the third summer and rented a friend's couch for $50/month.  After college, I never lived at home. 

I have a 20 year old living at home now.  He decided college wasn't for him but works 2 part-time jobs and another occasional job as well.  He averages over 50 hours per week and this week had his first day off completely from work in 54 days.  I charge him $200 per month.  I have given him the talk that by 22 he should be in his own apartment and a full-time job.   I guess I'll keep increasing the rent every 6 months so that its cost effective to be out. 
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Credaholic on June 17, 2016, 10:46:10 AM
...he let it slip that he was only living there to establish "ownership" of the home so that when they pass, the house would become his only.  It had to do with a some sort of loophole about him being my parents dependent (but not the tax kind) after a certain number of years and therefore would not be able to be evicted in the time of their passing if the house was to be part of an inheritance left to us kids.  Clearly he had done his homework.

Whoa. Can you point me to any more info on the laws he'd looked into on this? I have an adult brother who had some kind of nervous breakdown and has been living with my parents now for years refusing to get any kind of help. He's financially dependent on them as he has no job and went through savings in the first couple of years, and things are not good between him and my parents. Almost all of their net worth lies in their house so this would be a big concern if it's true!
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: SimplyMarvie on June 17, 2016, 10:48:00 AM
It's interesting reading this thread living in a country where it's normal and expected for kids to live at home until they're married and set up and even beyond. I talk to young people all day and a majority of them are very entrepreneurial, starting their own firms, with their own hustles, their own plans. A lot of them are coding, landlords, saving and investing... all the sorts of things that seem to be advocated by Mustachians.

But they're living with their parents, and that seems to be part of what makes all the other parts possible -- median income here is really low, but if you're living in the family house and mom and grandpa grow 2/3rds of your food, and your main expenses are taxi fare and cigarettes, it's way easier to get that first nest egg for your first hustle. Or go into the 'family business'. It's a really different way of being 'family focused' than I see in the US, and to be honest... I kind of like this country's way better.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: MrsDinero on June 17, 2016, 10:53:09 AM
...he let it slip that he was only living there to establish "ownership" of the home so that when they pass, the house would become his only.  It had to do with a some sort of loophole about him being my parents dependent (but not the tax kind) after a certain number of years and therefore would not be able to be evicted in the time of their passing if the house was to be part of an inheritance left to us kids.  Clearly he had done his homework.

Whoa. Can you point me to any more info on the laws he'd looked into on this? I have an adult brother who had some kind of nervous breakdown and has been living with my parents now for years refusing to get any kind of help. He's financially dependent on them as he has no job and went through savings in the first couple of years, and things are not good between him and my parents. Almost all of their net worth lies in their house so this would be a big concern if it's true!
This was in Texas and I'm not sure of the exact law.  My parents were the ones who told me what he said and it wasn't easy to get the information out of them.  I only found out about it when I kept pressing them about "the straw that broke the camel's back" on getting him to move out. 
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: mm1970 on June 17, 2016, 11:09:46 AM
I think there are a lot of things that factor into what you've said mm1970.

(For reference, I'm 26)

I won't be as successful as my dad. Well, I might be, but I'm not willing to work as hard as he did for it and I don't think I'll have the same growth opportunities that he did anyways (more competition now--a lot more college degrees and women in the workplace now than when dad started). I've lived the upper-middle class life he provided, and I wasn't any more or less happy then than when I was living a lower-middle class life out of college.
Second, my dad could pay for college at a private school by working in the summer. I did that to, and with scholarships, a job that paid way more than average for a middle school/high school/college kid during the summer, and a part time job during the school year (and summer too), I could get 75% of my public college costs not including my car, insurance, and phone. I was lucky that my parents provided the rest, because I don't have student loans now. I think a lot more kids now are saddled with student debt than were back then, and that causes people to live at home.
Lastly, the housing market to my knowledge (I could be wrong) has inflated way more than incomes--even after the bubble burst. Dad bought a house that was 1/2 of his income in 1978. I'll be lucky to buy one for twice my wife's and my combined incomes, and most other things are equal in that comparison.
This is where it becomes hard for me to judge for a couple of reasons:
1.  I grew up poor, not middle class. So I don't have a feel for what it was "like" for the middle class in the 1970s, when I was born.
2.  I'm a female, and the first generation to go to college.  In my vast number of cousins, I have a couple of female older cousins who went to nursing school.  None of my older male cousins went to college, but a few went into the military (then one went to college on GI bill after).
My year there were 4 cousins, 2 boys 2 girls all went to college.  The girls got master's degrees.
6 - 11 years younger than me, the two youngest cousins, both female, have PhDs.

So as far as the debt goes - I think those of us who went
1.  Got financial aid because we were poor
2.  Didn't live a typical lifestyle of a college student, because we were poor.  We had jobs.  Didn't travel.  And after college, worked hard to pay back debt first, because that's how we were raised.  And I feared debt, so I joined the Navy ROTC program after year #1, which meant tuition was covered.  My loans were for year #1 and then 3 years of room & board.

ETA, a little google tells me that the average student loan debt in 1992-93 (I graduated in 92) was $12,434.  My debt was about $11k, maybe a little more.
Average debt in 2012 was $26,885.  This corresponds to an increase of approx 4% each year.

As a comparison, my degree is in Chem E. Avg starting salary 1992: $40k. (My salary was much lower, as I was in the Navy.)  In 2012: $66,400.  Corresponding to 2.6% increase per year.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: mm1970 on June 17, 2016, 11:20:43 AM
Quote
I also think that all this "Do what you love and never work a day in your life" makes a lot of very unrealistic job expectations.  I remember my father doing jobs that most people would turn their noses up today.  He didn't do it because he loved it.  I didn't fullfilled every hope and dream he had, he did it because he had a family to house and feed. 

For sure this is a thing too.  I remember being in my 20s and hearing about how my generation should follow their passion.  By age 30 it seemed like it was maybe not the best thing.  Because what if you start to dislike your job?  Then you start to question everything.

I read (and still own) a book called "It's Called WORK for a Reason", to remind me that I'm getting paid.  That's why I work.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: mtn on June 17, 2016, 11:43:39 AM
Quote
I also think that all this "Do what you love and never work a day in your life" makes a lot of very unrealistic job expectations.  I remember my father doing jobs that most people would turn their noses up today.  He didn't do it because he loved it.  I didn't fullfilled every hope and dream he had, he did it because he had a family to house and feed. 

For sure this is a thing too.  I remember being in my 20s and hearing about how my generation should follow their passion.  By age 30 it seemed like it was maybe not the best thing.  Because what if you start to dislike your job?  Then you start to question everything.

I read (and still own) a book called "It's Called WORK for a Reason", to remind me that I'm getting paid.  That's why I work.

My wife always tells me I need to do what I love--she does, she loves food and so is a Dietitian.

Yeah, well I love hockey, but I can't make it to the NHL as a player and won't as a ref because I probably can't, and don't want the travel. Not to mention the income isn't there while you make your way to the NHL; and if you don't make it, you've lost your prime income growing years.

Its the same for most things that I love to do. People don't get paid to read novels and go fishing. The one thing I enjoy that I could make money at is personal finances, but then I have a soul and wouldn't actually get paid (see John Oliver).
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: catccc on June 17, 2016, 12:00:39 PM
I didn't move out for good until I was 27, right before I got married.  I was working full time and saving money.  I like to think I helped out at home, but I probably didn't do as much as I should have.  I did live independently for a while before that, until I graduated college at 23.  I worked and paid my way through college while living on my own, so it wasn't like I was a complete burden from 18 to 27.  I guess I was a boomerang kid for 4 years.  I don't think my parents minded that I was there.  I worked close by and it made a lot of sense for me to live at home and save up.  They knew I planned to stay until I got married.  Yeah, I gave up some freedom, but I mostly got along well with my parents and it was a great trade off for the savings for me.  We talked about them charging "rent" and saving it on my behalf, with the intention of returning the "rent" to me as a down payment on my first house.  But ultimately decided we didn't need such arrangements given my proclivity to save on my own.    And I never would have complained about a shower head.

Also, my parents are immigrants to the US, so it isn't the typical "you are 18, get your stuff and get out" kind of thinking in our family.

I'll let my kids stay as long as they want, provided they are being productive and responsible.  And respectful of the other residents in our house.  They are only 5 & 7 right now, so adult children in the house is still a far away prospect...
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Apples on June 17, 2016, 12:23:26 PM
I went to college out of town, moved home for the longest 7 months of my life while redoing a house to live in, and then moved out.*  It was very much "house rules".  Even as a teenager, I wasn't allowed to paint my room b/c my parents said I was living in a room of their house.  Their view was very much it's their house, rules, and choices, and we just get to live with them.  (note, I had great parents, just not pushovers when it came to us kids)  Also, my mom used to be an elementary school teacher, and she can never quite shake that when telling us what to do around the house and talking to us in general.  No 23 year old wants to be asked if they need to use the potty before they leave.  Especially in front of their friends.  Also, the ability to do what I wanted, when I wanted to.  I could wait until Saturday and wash all the dishes at once, or go to bed really late, or go to bed really early, or WHATEVER I wanted.  It's magical.  While living at home I certainly had the autonomy to do what I wanted (except for chores-I could not neglect those and do all my dishes at the end of the week), but I would be asked if I was feeling ok, or if I was tired the next day, etc.  I was just tired of my parents knowing what I did all the time, and could afford a place on my own.

*The house in on our family farm.  The nearest apartment for rent would make for a 20 minute commute to work, and the long term plan is to live on the farm.  So I moved directly into a house out of college, which is unusual for my generation.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: PAstash on June 17, 2016, 12:32:33 PM
I don't mean to be graphic I was told i was not allowed to entertain female guests. Needless to say i was out ASAP.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Matilda on June 17, 2016, 12:45:49 PM
... No 23 year old wants to be asked if they need to use the potty before they leave.  Especially in front of their friends.  Also, the ability to do what I wanted, when I wanted to.  I could wait until Saturday and wash all the dishes at once, or go to bed really late, or go to bed really early, or WHATEVER I wanted.  It's magical.  While living at home I certainly had the autonomy to do what I wanted (except for chores-I could not neglect those and do all my dishes at the end of the week), but I would be asked if I was feeling ok, or if I was tired the next day, etc.  I was just tired of my parents knowing what I did all the time, and could afford a place on my own.

*The house in on our family farm.  The nearest apartment for rent would make for a 20 minute commute to work, and the long term plan is to live on the farm.  So I moved directly into a house out of college, which is unusual for my generation.

." No 23 year old wants to be asked if they need to use the potty before they leave". Thank you, this will now be my secret weapon. 
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: dcheesi on June 17, 2016, 12:59:54 PM
Graduated, got a job in another city.

Both of my brothers have lived at home at different times in their adult lives. There's a room off of the garage that's been occupied by one or the other of them probably for more time than it's sat empty. One brother was there between marriages; the other while he was saving up for a down-payment on a house; then the first one again when he was pushed out of his job in the middle of the downturn.

That last one turned out to be a godsend, as my parents' health has deteriorated to point where they really can't keep up with household tasks without help. They would probably have been too proud to ask for help until things got really bad; but since my brother was there living with them already, he could see what was really going on, and they didn't mind asking him to pull his weight around the house. He's still there helping them out, even though his financial situation has improved.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: SomedayStache on June 17, 2016, 01:40:05 PM
Tiger Mom is back and this article seems relevant.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-tiger-mother-guide-to-renting-to-your-children-1465570914 (http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-tiger-mother-guide-to-renting-to-your-children-1465570914)

Here's the contract Tiger Mom is making her two 20 something daughter's sign:
NOW THEREFORE

In exchange for Amy and Jed allowing them to stay in their NYC apartment from June 1, 2016 to August 1, 2016, Sophia Chua-Rubenfeld and Louisa Chua-Rubenfeld agree to the following irrevocable duties and conditions:

1. To occupy only the junior bedroom.

2. To greet Jed Rubenfeld & Amy Chua with spontaneous joy and gratitude whenever they visit.

3. To make their (joint) bed every day, and not to fight about who does it.

4. To never, ever use the phrase, “Relax—it’s not a big deal.”

5. To always leave all internal doors in the apartment wide open whenever Jed, Amy or any company whatsoever (including relatives) are in the apartment, with an immaculately made bed in full view and no clothing or other junk on the floor of the bedroom in sight.

6. Whenever any guests visit, to come out of the bedroom immediately in a respectable state, greet the guests with enthusiasm, and sit and converse with the guests in the living room for at least 15 minutes.

7. To always be kind to our trusty Samoyeds Coco and Pushkin, who Sophia and Louisa hereby agree have greater rights to the apartment than Sophia and Louisa do, and to walk them to the dog park at least once a day when they visit, within 30 minutes of being asked to do so by Amy.

8. To fill the refrigerator with fresh OJ from Fairway for Jed on days when he is in town.

9. To keep the pillows in the living room in the right place and PLUMPED and to clean the glass table with Windex whenever it is used.

ADDITIONALLY, Sophia and Louisa agree that the above duties and conditions will not be excused even in the event of illness, hangovers, migraines, work crises or mental breakdowns (whether their own or their friends’).

Sophia and Louisa agree that if they violate any one of these conditions, Amy and Jed will have the right to get the Superintendent or a doorman to restrain them from entering the apartment; and to change the locks.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Murse on June 17, 2016, 01:54:34 PM
On a different Thread, the OP asked if they were being unreasonable because they switched out to very low flow shower heads, after accepting 4 adults (related) into their home to "help them get on their feet".

My thought is that it is "house rules" as much as savings that encourage our adult family to move into their own place.

Why did YOU move out of your parent's home?  Why did you look for a job that took you away, or what "house rules" or annoyances encouraged you to become independent?

I will start:

I moved out for two reasons -- I took a 4 month contract out of town for my first "real" job, but it was easy to go and never come back because of house rules including:
. worrying parents if I stayed out past midnight (not a curfew, but I knew it disturbed their sleep and they worried)
. 20 year old single bed with a spring that poked out.  Buying furniture for myself never occured to me.
. not being able to leave anything outside of my room for more than 3 hours.  Shoes at the front door, purse near the stairs, laptop on the end table, etc.
. only using the kitchen if I left it immaculate, and not when my mom may want to use it.   
.  General feeling like it was their house, their ways, and I was not invited to request any changes to the order in the home...  had to ask if I wanted to store anything outside of my room, use common space in a different way, etc.
. having friends over, this was not really the place.  (I don't mean romantic interests either... any friends over was a bit awkward unless a formal invite for a barbeque that included my parents).
. suburbs away from other friends.

What about you?  Why did you move out of your home?

What would work to get Adult "guests" out of your home more quickly?
I moved out at 23. I had finished college and been working full time for 6 months in a relatively high paying field.  A friend of mine in a different city lost his roomate and needed a new one. Basically I moved out because I could afford it and had the opportunity to share costs with someone I knew. My parents were actually upset that I moved out. Once I found a job that was a slightly more reasonable commute I left. I am currently waiting to get my 1 year in so that I can transfer for a much shorter commute.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: randymarsh on June 17, 2016, 03:15:21 PM
I'm hoping the Tiger Mom contract was tongue in cheek. I'd rather my parents charge me rent than have me sign some silly list of rules.

Quote
To always leave all internal doors in the apartment wide open whenever Jed, Amy or any company whatsoever (including relatives) are in the apartment, with an immaculately made bed in full view and no clothing or other junk on the floor of the bedroom in sight.

Your adult child can't go to their room, close the door, and listen to some music in an hour? I had more privileges in my parents' house when I was 16.

Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Suze456 on June 17, 2016, 03:17:57 PM
Left home at 18 to go to college - never moved back.

On the other hand, dh only left home when we got married. Marry them off??

Almost 30 year old sister is still at home...pays no bills, gets her laundry and ironing done for her, health insurance paid for her, dinner cooked for her...comfy much!
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: lostamonkey on June 17, 2016, 05:25:29 PM
I'm hoping the Tiger Mom contract was tongue in cheek. I'd rather my parents charge me rent than have me sign some silly list of rules.

Quote
To always leave all internal doors in the apartment wide open whenever Jed, Amy or any company whatsoever (including relatives) are in the apartment, with an immaculately made bed in full view and no clothing or other junk on the floor of the bedroom in sight.

Your adult child can't go to their room, close the door, and listen to some music in an hour? I had more privileges in my parents' house when I was 16.

I agree with this. Those rules are really unreasonable.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on June 18, 2016, 11:01:28 AM
I'm hoping the Tiger Mom contract was tongue in cheek. I'd rather my parents charge me rent than have me sign some silly list of rules.

Quote
To always leave all internal doors in the apartment wide open whenever Jed, Amy or any company whatsoever (including relatives) are in the apartment, with an immaculately made bed in full view and no clothing or other junk on the floor of the bedroom in sight.

Your adult child can't go to their room, close the door, and listen to some music in an hour? I had more privileges in my parents' house when I was 16.

I agree with this. Those rules are really unreasonable.
#7 is good.  Missy disagrees, she thinks it should be minimum 2x/day.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Zikoris on June 18, 2016, 01:42:46 PM
One more thing to throw in - teach your kids proper life skills if you want them to be independent. I think by the time a kid turns 18-ish they should be competent at cooking, cleaning, fixing things, managing time and money, and everything involving jobs - writing a resume and cover letter, interviewing, applying, and keeping jobs after they get them (appropriate conduct at work, not being late, etc). The failure-to-launch people I know are consistently lacking in at least some of those, sometimes even all of them.

I think having a lot of those skills also gives kids the confidence to move out, because it makes the "real world" a LOT less scary.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: LeRainDrop on June 18, 2016, 02:08:20 PM
One more thing to throw in - teach your kids proper life skills if you want them to be independent. I think by the time a kid turns 18-ish they should be competent at cooking, cleaning, fixing things, managing time and money, and everything involving jobs - writing a resume and cover letter, interviewing, applying, and keeping jobs after they get them (appropriate conduct at work, not being late, etc). The failure-to-launch people I know are consistently lacking in at least some of those, sometimes even all of them.

I think having a lot of those skills also gives kids the confidence to move out, because it makes the "real world" a LOT less scary.

Add laundry, dish washing, ironing, snow shoveling / cleaning off the car, basic car maintenance.  I had a friend in college who had no idea how to deposit money into the bank -- only how to use the ATM to withdraw cash.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: darkadams00 on June 19, 2016, 10:36:23 PM
I gave my sons a simple rule--You have one free year after high school. If you don't go to college (both did), then your year starts while you obtain and learn a quick full-time trade/job that will pay rent somewhere. If you go to college, you can have your year after graduation if needed. In all cases, the year is an employed year. Failure to become and remain employed means I help them find a rent-a-room in town, and I'll pay the first 90 days. Afterwards, they're on their own. They've known that since they were pre-teens, so it's never been an issue. When they were teens still in HS I walked them downtown by the rent-a-rooms so they could make an informed decision.  :)

My oldest son had one stumble, but he recovered quickly. My younger has not been an issue at all. I don't expect either one to ask to boomerang back to our home. And their rooms are now an office and a non-personal guest room--their personal items have been sent with them or are stored in our attic. Long-established expectations seem to be the missing element for many families struggling with this issue.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Villanelle on June 19, 2016, 11:27:06 PM
I loved out during college, though I attended a local university.  I moved back in at some point, and moved out shortly after graduating because I got engaged.  However, I likely would have moved out soon anyway, once I'd gotten an adult job and gotten established.  This is what my sister did.  Staying at home longer than necessary (defined as getting established in a real job, I guess) was never a consideration.  My parents are wonderful, and I have a great relationship with them, but living with parents is not something I ever thought healthy adults do, except in unusual circumstances.  And I don't ever recall a specific conversation, but I think I sensed that was my parents' expectation as well.  My older sister moved out for college, moved home for about a year while she got established, then moved out.  I think had either of us lingered, there would have been a Talk, and perhaps a demand for rent.

When I was evacuated from Japan, I needed a place to stay in the States, and my parents happily opened their home.  I think I was there for two months. There were incredibly generous and wonderful, but I was ready to leave and have my own household again.  Having my mom insist that I needed to gather my dirty laundry Right Now! because she was doing a load, when I was in the middle of Whatever and would happily have done my own laundry at a more convenient time, got old. Again, I very much appreciated them giving me a place, but sharing a home when you aren't used to it is tough.  I generally did as they asked, because I was staying in their home, but they will always be my parents and thus will want to parent me, which is much more comfortable in smaller doses. 
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Lia-Aimee on June 20, 2016, 06:51:40 PM
Moved away for university and never came back.  Doing anything different was never an option because my parents lived in a small town where there are no post-secondary opportunities and, unless you're a business owner, the only professional-level jobs are healthcare and education (neither field interested me.) If I moved back my only option would be working a seasonal, minimum wage job in hospitality. 


Looking at my friends (average age ~25-30) the wide variety of attitudes towards living-at-home astonishes me. I grew up in a low-income area where virtually everyone was moved out by age 18 (some at 15) and most people, at least the women, have multiple children themselves.  If you're struggling with housing, you look to the government not to your family.  My university group of friends who grew up much more affluent and in major cities, well, I'd say half of them still live with their parents* and at least a half of that group only work very sporadically / in the same jobs as they had as teenagers, and focus on pursuing their interests, travel very extensively, etc (note these folk all have pretty good degrees.) People I've met since then are all over the board as to when they moved out, but those with wealthier parents invariably stayed at home longer, as did people whose parents live in larger cities.


*Note for this context I'm talking about living with parents well below market costs, not referring to people who pay generous room and board to a family member, or who have primary caregiving responsibilities for the family member with whom they live.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: MoneyCat on June 20, 2016, 06:55:58 PM
I moved out of my parents' house because they said "You are 18 years old so we are no longer legally required to provide for you. Pack up your shit and get out of here." And I've been on my own ever since. Coincidentally, my parents have been sniffing around since I'm doing well financially now and they are getting up there in years. I told them "You are in your late 60s. I'm not legally required to provide for you. Hope you can afford a good retirement home."
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: seathink on June 20, 2016, 07:26:18 PM
We were raised pretty independent and always had to work if we wanted any money for "fun stuff", so have been working pretty steady since about age 12-13.
No real issues with the parents, just wanted to be on my own, got a good job right out of high school and couldn't wait to get moved out.   Within a couple months of HS graduation I moved out, bought my own car and was doing my own thing.


We were all taught all the basics of adult living. My sister and I moved out for college, my brother for the Military. I stayed with my parents for a few months after college when I filmed a feature film, then temped to raise up 2K to move to LA.

Family philosophies differ, though. My sister-in-law was a real Southern Bell. Her sister went from school to college to marriage at home, only moving out after the honeymoon. My SIL stayed through the PhD and then got her own place, after some firm counseling from my mom about the need to live on one's own before marriage (her and my bro only dating then.

Her family was gobsmacked that she had the "fortitude" and "bravery" to live on her own as a 25 year old with a full-time professional job. (Quoting from the Father of the Bride speech her dad gave).
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: FIstateofmind on June 20, 2016, 10:27:02 PM
I didn't move out for good until I was 27, right before I got married.  I was working full time and saving money.  I like to think I helped out at home, but I probably didn't do as much as I should have.  I did live independently for a while before that, until I graduated college at 23.  I worked and paid my way through college while living on my own, so it wasn't like I was a complete burden from 18 to 27.  I guess I was a boomerang kid for 4 years.  I don't think my parents minded that I was there.  I worked close by and it made a lot of sense for me to live at home and save up.  They knew I planned to stay until I got married.  Yeah, I gave up some freedom, but I mostly got along well with my parents and it was a great trade off for the savings for me.  We talked about them charging "rent" and saving it on my behalf, with the intention of returning the "rent" to me as a down payment on my first house.  But ultimately decided we didn't need such arrangements given my proclivity to save on my own.    And I never would have complained about a shower head.

Also, my parents are immigrants to the US, so it isn't the typical "you are 18, get your stuff and get out" kind of thinking in our family.

I'll let my kids stay as long as they want, provided they are being productive and responsible.  And respectful of the other residents in our house.  They are only 5 & 7 right now, so adult children in the house is still a far away prospect...

My parents have the same attitude. Makes me really consider moving back in to save for a bit... but there is so much external pressure to move out since it's looked down on in society.

Like seathink said, some families philosophies differ. My family never taught me to be independent, and they would encourage me to stay home. Makes it difficult to move out.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: mxt0133 on June 21, 2016, 12:47:26 AM
I moved out of my parents' house because they said "You are 18 years old so we are no longer legally required to provide for you. Pack up your shit and get out of here." And I've been on my own ever since. Coincidentally, my parents have been sniffing around since I'm doing well financially now and they are getting up there in years. I told them "You are in your late 60s. I'm not legally required to provide for you. Hope you can afford a good retirement home."

Sorry to hear that.  I never understood why some of friends couldn't wait to move out or even talked about running away when I was in high school.  I mean why the hell do I want to leave home where I get a room, cooked meals, laundry facilities, cable, and utilities for free?  It wasn't until I started getting to know the relationship they had with their parents.  It really made grateful and appreciative of how generous my parents are with me and my siblings.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: tonycar17 on June 21, 2016, 02:42:05 PM
Finished my undergrad and moved home for a short period while I looked for a job.  Was there for 5 months before I found my first job and left as soon as I could find an apartment and a couple of roommates.  Never came back after that, except to visit, lol.

There were no crazy rules or anything to follow, and I was charged rent (which I felt was fair because I was 21 at that point and needed to begin acting as a responsible adult).  I feel like my parents did a good job getting me ready to function in the real world - and that it was their expectation that I would be an adult when I hit that 18 year old mark (21 after college) and that, more than anything, has led to my being fairly successful in life. 

I think that if you communicate early and often about expectations and lay that all out before you get "in the moment", then there are no surprises.  My wife and I talk about this often as the parents of two young boys (9 and 7).  She sometimes talks about how they will always be welcome in our home and I counter with - not once they hit adulthood (as you can imagine, this leads to some interesting conversations). 

There is just a time that the birds need to get out of the nest and learn to fly.  By allowing them to stay at home forever, you stunt their personal and social development - it simply is not OK in my mind to be a 25 or 30 year old adult living at home with your parents.......unless there are extenuating circumstances driving that (health, for example).

I dunno, maybe I am just old school that way.

TC
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Cassie on June 21, 2016, 03:25:39 PM
My 3 sons boomeranged back home a few times when they either decided to finish college or hit some hard times. I did not charge them and I didn't set any rules.  I didn't mind helping when it was really needed. However, I would not let them live here and not go to work or school, etc.  They are all independent now.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Daisyedwards800 on June 21, 2016, 03:56:52 PM
I moved out of the house to go to college at 18, and came home in the summers.  After I graduated, my student loans were coming due in 6 months, and they were substantial.  There were several reasons I decided to move out of town and into my own apartment:
1) The area around my family home had very few and possibly no jobs that paid enough to handle the loan expense (even after factoring in rent!)  Any entry level job I would find would only pay $18-25k a year, while the jobs I saw in the big city paid $35k-55k if you added in overtime.  I needed a job that paid $50k at least.  So even after rent of $700 a month, I was way more liquid living away from home than living in the home.  Yes even at age 21 I did those calculations.
2) Even if I found a decent job paying say $35k-40k in my hometown, there was no growth path in that area.  I would be stuck in that job and out of luck if the job went away.  No promotional opportunities.
3) I would need a car, which was an added expense that I didn't have in the city.
4) My boyfriend was living in the city, and so were many college friends I had made.  I made the choice to go to college in a city that had great internship and economic opportunities on purpose.

So those are a few reasons.  I knew I would never get out of the financial hole I was in by living at home.

I have a friend who graduated and was barely employed for several years because he thought he "couldn't afford" to live in the city, with its high rent.  What he didn't think about was that there were no jobs where he lived, even though he got free rent.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Capsu78 on June 21, 2016, 04:10:02 PM
2 weeks after college graduation I said goodbye to my parents at the end of our driveway to move to the left coast.  It would be the last time I lived in the same time zone as them.
Both my adult kids stayed with us after graduation when they were buying homes.  I must admit I enjoyed having them and their spouses and kids and dogs around more that I cared to admit... They did tell me they never wanted to watch another episode of The O Reilly Factor again so a heavy rotation of Fox News when trying to help "little birds fly" can't hurt anything.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: mtn on June 22, 2016, 02:25:29 PM
2 weeks after college graduation I said goodbye to my parents at the end of our driveway to move to the left coast.  It would be the last time I lived in the same time zone as them.

My cousin hasn't lived in the same time zone as his parents since he was 20. Of course, he only has to go across the street to get to the same time zone, but still!
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: FLBiker on June 22, 2016, 02:56:33 PM
Interesting question.  We've got a 1 year old, so I haven't thought a lot about this.  Also, both DW and I have had a bit of flexibility in terms of living w/ our parents, and neither of us abused the privilege.

Went to college @ 18, came home summers.
Post-college, lived w/ folks for almost a year, paying rent.  Rent was below market value, as it included use of a car, groceries, etc.
Moved to Taiwan. (5 years)
Moved to Hawaii. (2.5 years)
Moved to China. (1 year)
Lived w/ folks for 5 months, no rent.
Moved to Florida. (8 years and counting)

In looking back at this, I like the way my folks handled it.  They charged me rent post-college to encourage me to move on.  Later in life, when I was re-locating / looking for work, they let me stay with them rent free.  I'd like to do the same for my kid -- encourage independence, but provide space in unsettled times.

As far as what got me to move out, there wasn't anything in particular.  I always intended to move out.  Why would I want to live with my parents?
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: seathink on June 23, 2016, 02:11:26 PM

  Why would I want to live with my parents?

I keep meaning to post this story in "Relatives Who Don't Get It" but equally applicable here:

After my uncle divorced in his late thirties he moved back into my grandma's basement and never left. I was maybe 5 or so. My cousins (obviously) lived with their mom. He did work the entire time, night-shifts at the Post Office, and then retired on his government pension. My parents were visiting back home after my sister and I had graduated college/my brother had left for school and we'd all permanently moved out. So, two decades later, give or take.

My uncle gets super excited that mom and dad are empty nesters. He says, "Now that the kids are gone you can move into mom's basement next to me! Sell your house and come on!" He honestly thought the only reason my 60 year old parents didn't live at home still was because of us kids, and thought all objections raised were still excuses.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Kiwi Mustache on June 23, 2016, 07:48:09 PM
Tell them no sex at home.

Made my 23 year old cousin move out within a week.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: onlykelsey on June 23, 2016, 07:50:11 PM
Tell them no sex at home.

Made my 23 year old cousin move out within a week.

My aunt and uncle made me and my husband sleep on different floors when we visited.  It can't really be a religious opposition, maybe just an "ick" one.  I mean, I don't mind, it's just interesting.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: mtn on June 24, 2016, 08:15:38 AM
Tell them no sex at home.

Made my 23 year old cousin move out within a week.

My aunt and uncle made me and my husband sleep on different floors when we visited.  It can't really be a religious opposition, maybe just an "ick" one.  I mean, I don't mind, it's just interesting.

Uhh... but you're married? I can understand it if you're not, but you're married!
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: onlykelsey on June 24, 2016, 09:18:05 AM
Tell them no sex at home.

Made my 23 year old cousin move out within a week.

My aunt and uncle made me and my husband sleep on different floors when we visited.  It can't really be a religious opposition, maybe just an "ick" one.  I mean, I don't mind, it's just interesting.

Uhh... but you're married? I can understand it if you're not, but you're married!

I know!  With my previous boyfriend of five years, we also had to sleep on different floors.  I assumed it was religious AND ick, because my uncle STRONGLY disagreed with said boyfriend and I renting a two bedroom.  Maybe he thought we'd share a bed and never touch?   

They like my husband (and liked my old boyfriend), so it's interesting.
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Helvegen on July 07, 2016, 05:24:36 PM
Moved out at 22 to move to another country and marry my husband.

Moved back in at 26 because I had no future in husband's country and neither did he really.

Moved out at 27 when I got my first real adult job (you know, ft w/bennies).

Moved back in at 28 after lay off, economy sucking hard (we could only find pt work), and realizing we were never going to be able to save up enough money to move to the West Coast if we didn't.

Moved out at 29 and life has been fantastic ever since.

It may well end up being that my mother has to move in with one of us children (she has no retirement) and thus the circle completes itself.

Personally, I see no real reason to kick my daughter out at some pre-set age. As long as she is being productive, contributing something to the household, and not being a lazy leech, I really don't care how long she ends up staying.

Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: dpfromva on July 08, 2016, 04:58:12 PM
I recently told my two kids (20 somethings) that they were amazing and I appreciated that they were living on their own when a third of their generation is living with parents. They actually both left for freshman year of college and never came back! Yes, I help out with things -- e.g., major car repair, dental work, security deposit. I think it's a lot harder out there than when I was coming up. I "lived" at home in the summers during my college years but I worked as a camp counselor so I wasn't actually there very much. I took whatever job I could after graduating, staying in my student apartment after my housemates left for that last summer and kept interviewing for "real" jobs until I got one. (Thank goodness my landlord was a pushover, I traded him all the furniture for 2 months free rent.) Like others say, in our family there was just an expectation you would become independent, with the understanding that the family would be there for you in an emergency. And oh, yes, the house rules. My first summer home after freshman year, I got in at 2 a.m. after hanging out with friends, and my Dad was standing there in his PJs growling, "You're grounded!" I said, "What do you mean? I'm going back to school in 2 days." We stared at each other and both just started laughing. Later, when I visited with my future spouse, we had to stay in separate rooms. Got my revenge, though. When my 72 year old widowed Dad came to visit with my future stepmother, I said, "OK, you two, separate rooms." "Damn," my Dad said, "I knew you were going to do that." He thought a little and then tried, "Um, that was your Mom's rule, not mine." "OMG, what BS -- and you just threw Mom under the bus and she's not here anymore to defend herself!" Yeah, I let them stay together . . .
Title: Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
Post by: Cassie on July 08, 2016, 05:06:41 PM
Cute story! Glad you gave the old folks a break:))