Author Topic: How to get Adult Children out of the House?  (Read 22504 times)

Noodle

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #50 on: June 15, 2016, 05:04:49 PM »
All the time my sibs and I were growing up, our folks made it clear that their expectation was that we would be out of the house and doing something at age 18. They encouraged and financially supported college, but also made clear they understood that it was not for everyone--so trade school, the military or work were all OK too. (They also sweetened the deal with lots of stories about how much fun it was to be at college, making new friends, going to parties, etc) We grew up in fairly rural areas so it was also very motivating to get the heck out and be around different people (this was back in the days before internet, Amazon, etc so when you were living somewhere rural you were missing out on a lot that was available in bigger cities.)

goldensam

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #51 on: June 15, 2016, 05:30:00 PM »
I grew up in a physically, emotionally, and sexually abusive low income household. When I was 16, my mom started dating what would quickly become her 6th husband (and then 6th divorce) and I hated him immediately. So, she gave me two choices: accept him or move out. I moved out. I crashed with friends whose parents were thankfully very understanding for my junior and senior years of high school until I followed my HS boyfriend to college. This was a big deal because finishing high school wasn't really a common occurrence in my family and no one had ever gone to college. I was really inspired by my BF's dad and the fact that he had also grown up poor and had become very successful. Plus I wanted to be near the BF, so off I went. I lived in the dorms the first year, shared an apartment with two roommates the next two years, and had my own shitty apartment my senior year. I accepted a job offer and started full time one week after graduation, which required a move to another state.

I am the oldest of the four of us. The next one went to college after I did and I'm so proud of her. She lived on her own immediately after high school and has never gone back. She bought her own house in her late 20s. The next youngest just moved out within the past month. She is almost 20, works part time, and goes to community college part time. The youngest is still in middle school and is the kid my mom had with the 6th husband. It turned out my instinct was right and he has been nothing but a total douche since the divorce. Mom says he is her biggest mistake, but she would die before she would ever admit I was right.

Zikoris

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #52 on: June 15, 2016, 08:43:06 PM »
I moved out at 18 when my mom married someone really disgusting. I'm not a cleanliness freak by any means, but I'm simply unwilling to live with people who don't shower or wash their clothes, or stick chewed up gum to random surfaces in the house, etc etc. It was pretty rash actually - I decided to move two weeks before I did, and moved halfway across Canada.

LeRainDrop

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #53 on: June 15, 2016, 10:30:02 PM »
Why did YOU move out of your parent's home?  Why did you look for a job that took you away, or what "house rules" or annoyances encouraged you to become independent?
. . .

What about you?  Why did you move out of your home?

What would work to get Adult "guests" out of your home more quickly?

My youngest brother and I each moved out at age 18 to go to college several hundred miles away from home.  I think we each lived at "home" for the first college summer and then visited during other college breaks.  We both were very driven and our parents did a great job raising us to be independent.  We got good jobs out of college and supported ourselves because that's just what we thought was the natural course of development.  Also, we each wanted to stay in our college area, near friends and significant others.

My middle brother bounced back and forth between some college here, home there, different college, home again, etc.  He finally moved out just as he turned 30 because my parents ran into financial trouble, had to sell the family home pretty quickly, and got divorced in one fell swoop.  The timing worked well to shove him out of the nest -- with a large gift of money, lucky fellow -- so that he could move across the country to begin his way up in his industry.  By the time he made his way across the country and spent all his money in doing so, he had no choice but to work his butt off to survive out there.

ETA:  After her divorce from my dad, my mom lived with me in my condo for awhile.  She relocated several hundred miles, and so I had offered to have her stay a short time so that she could find work, get her own place, and get set up.  Alas, she struggled for a few months, probably depressed, and did not make any headway on getting a job.  After those few months, I told her that she absolutely just had to get a job, even if it wasn't in the industry that she wanted and even if the commute was a little longer than she wanted.  I think I basically told her that she had to do it because it would probably help her self-esteem to be back out there working with people and being productive, plus it just wasn't working for me to constantly have her at home all the frickin' time.  I had gone from living alone for several years to suddenly having my able-bodied mom sitting in my living room 100% of my waking/non-work hours, and I was about to go crazy.  She got a good job pretty quickly after that, but just continued to stay with me as time went by and I started hinting more forcefully that she should be looking for her own place.  Eventually, I had to tell her that I was going to start charging her (nominal) rent if she didn't move out by X date, and then I actually followed through on that.  She was like, "You're really charging me rent?"  And I was like, "Uh, yes.  I gave you lots of notice that I would."  Her move-out took awhile to come to fruition -- I helped with searching for places, visiting them, asking questions of the landlords, negotiating her lease, etc. -- till it finally happened.  I think we eventually got to the point where I was like, "Look, this is making me very stressed out and I'm sure it's stressing you out, too.  Let's get you set up in your own, safe place, so that we can get back to having our normal, excellent relationship instead of getting on each other's nerves all the time."
« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 02:25:56 PM by LeRainDrop »

obstinate

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #54 on: June 15, 2016, 10:42:36 PM »
I'll bet if you charged them above market rate rent, they'd probably leave eventually.

elaine amj

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #55 on: June 15, 2016, 10:57:25 PM »
I had no thought of moving out until I got married. Ended up getting married while in college so moved out :)

My DH stayed with his Mom and Grandma all his life. He was comfortable and also never considered moving out (cultural thing too I guess). Sure helped with saving $$! Shortly after we decided to get married, he asked if I would be OK moving in with his then 90+ yr old grandma since it was unlikely she would have long. Two babies later, I was going out of my mind since Mom and Grandma both interfered endlessly with raising them. After I told him I had reached the end of my rope, we moved out to our own house 2 months later. Of course, we only had about 2 years of privacy before his Mom moved in with us for 10 years (poor health). She moved to a nursing home last year and its been nice to have our privacy back although the kids still miss her.

I have been warning my kids (teens now) that they need to be prepared to be self-supporting once they graduate high school. I probably won't kick them out right away but it all depends on my FIRE plans. Better to be prepared :)


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abiteveryday

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #56 on: June 15, 2016, 11:05:22 PM »
I moved out at 19 to go to a state school after a year at community college.  I lived with roommates off campus.   I lived at home again for a few months when I was 23, but then headed back out permanently.   I got along fine wth my parents, and didn't feel constrained by living there, but I just found a little separation try be better for personal growth.

DeltaBond

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #57 on: June 16, 2016, 05:41:12 AM »
I moved out because I just didn't like living with my parents.  They were parents and I realize now that there was emotional abuse going on... but yeah, when home isn't comfortable, kids move out.

My sibling has a child who's 25 and plays WOW all day, literally.  Quite college after one semester, and just parked his butt at home.  I personally feel that could have been solved by just cancelling the internet service for a little while.

driftwood

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #58 on: June 16, 2016, 06:23:18 AM »
For us growing up we were expected to move out after high school.  If we were going to college locally we were welcome to stay and pay rent (really, cheap rate though, maybe $150/mo).  Being the third of six siblings I was expected to continue to follow the existing house rules, but did not have a curfew and could do what I wanted outside of the home.

After high school I did one semester at the local community college then joined the Army. After six years in the Army I got out and I was home for a few months before I found a college across the country I wanted to attend, so I moved out again then.  I think I was supposed to pay rent but I traded the room for work around the house instead.  I had plenty of energy/time for chores and projects so it was a win/win. 

Ellsie Equanimity

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #59 on: June 16, 2016, 07:30:36 AM »
This idea that children are supposed to move out as soon as they turn 18 or graduate college seems to be an American phenomenon. I don't see what the big deal is with adult children living at home as long as they're doing something (aka working/in school) and contributing in some way to the household (rent, cleaning up, feeding the dog, etc).

I think the problem is there is a growing number of adult children living at home that are NOT doing something.

Admittedly: I am basing this on "articles I read online" and "a small sample of personal acquaintances".  I don't actually know this is a growing problem.  But it seems to continually be article fodder.

http://web.stanford.edu/~mrosenfe/Rosenfeld_live_Indep_MFT_magazine.pdf

mm1970

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #60 on: June 16, 2016, 01:11:58 PM »
This idea that children are supposed to move out as soon as they turn 18 or graduate college seems to be an American phenomenon. I don't see what the big deal is with adult children living at home as long as they're doing something (aka working/in school) and contributing in some way to the household (rent, cleaning up, feeding the dog, etc).

I think the problem is there is a growing number of adult children living at home that are NOT doing something.

Admittedly: I am basing this on "articles I read online" and "a small sample of personal acquaintances".  I don't actually know this is a growing problem.  But it seems to continually be article fodder.

No, I think there's a bit of truth to this, and I don't know why.  It wasn't terribly uncommon back when I was a kid for adults to live with their parents for awhile.  For one thing, most just got jobs out of HS and didn't get paid much.  (Though most did pay their parents a bit of rent).  For another, it was a rural area with not a lot of options on where to live.

But I guess in my family, most kids were out by about age 21 - in the military or in an apartment with friends or married.

I'm in a different demographic right now.  I work with a number of Director/ VP level men around age 60.  It's interesting.  I was thinking about it earlier today - these men are upper middle class for sure.  (Though they didn't necessarily start that way, they worked their way up with hard work and smarts.)  But their kids aren't as successful.  Is it that times are harder, or the kids have it easier, or are they a product of the times or their upper middle class lifestyle?

One of them has a 30 year old son who is a musician.  Hard to make a living at that, so he's working as a campground host for $10 an hour, but can live there for free.
One of them has a 28 year old son who works in retail at an electronics store.  Couch surfs a lot for a place to live.  Not motivated?
One of them has a 25 year old son who graduated college.  This coworker mentioned that I should get my son into a really busy exhausting sport...keeps them out of trouble.  However, his kid just completed a year long live-in drug/ alcohol program, and is still struggling to get back on track.

It's interesting that it's all men, not the daughters.
It's interesting that it's all upper class white boys.

(On the flip side, I know plenty of engineers the same age who are self-sufficient.  And several who continued to live at home to save money after graduating college, while working good paying jobs.)  And my Step dad lived with his parents (except for his Army time) until he was in  his 40s and married my mom.

Now.  I don't particularly want my boys boomeranging after college.  House is kinda small for that.  But I guess if my (future) 22 year old has a job in town, and still wants to sleep in the top bunk above his 17 yo brother to save up money, I'd consider it.  As long as he follows the house rules and pays rent.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 01:16:25 PM by mm1970 »

mtn

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #61 on: June 16, 2016, 01:22:37 PM »
I think there are a lot of things that factor into what you've said mm1970.

(For reference, I'm 26)

I won't be as successful as my dad. Well, I might be, but I'm not willing to work as hard as he did for it and I don't think I'll have the same growth opportunities that he did anyways (more competition now--a lot more college degrees and women in the workplace now than when dad started). I've lived the upper-middle class life he provided, and I wasn't any more or less happy then than when I was living a lower-middle class life out of college.
Second, my dad could pay for college at a private school by working in the summer. I did that to, and with scholarships, a job that paid way more than average for a middle school/high school/college kid during the summer, and a part time job during the school year (and summer too), I could get 75% of my public college costs not including my car, insurance, and phone. I was lucky that my parents provided the rest, because I don't have student loans now. I think a lot more kids now are saddled with student debt than were back then, and that causes people to live at home.
Lastly, the housing market to my knowledge (I could be wrong) has inflated way more than incomes--even after the bubble burst. Dad bought a house that was 1/2 of his income in 1978. I'll be lucky to buy one for twice my wife's and my combined incomes, and most other things are equal in that comparison.

Vagabond76

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #62 on: June 16, 2016, 01:57:34 PM »
It's interesting that it's all men, not the daughters.
It's interesting that it's all upper class white boys.

It seems in our quest for gender equality, society brought men down below their potential as much as it raised women's potential.

I've already told my kids (15, 13, and 12 year-old girls) that they aren't boomeranging back home.  To hammer that point home, I can retire from the military the year the last one graduates high school.  Then I execute my retirement plan:  two small two bedroom houses or condos; one on a Florida beach and one in the Colorado mountains.  There won't be room for them to move back in for more than a short visit.

Plus, I taught them a solid financial foundation, a paid for college education, and start them off with a substantial 'stache (prolly in the neighborhood of $500k each) in a trust.  It's up to them to use it wisely and not blow it.

mxt0133

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #63 on: June 16, 2016, 01:58:56 PM »
Dad bought a house that was 1/2 of his income in 1978. I'll be lucky to buy one for twice my wife's and my combined incomes, and most other things are equal in that comparison.

One reason for the increase in housing prices relative to income is lifestyle inflation.  Square footage is bigger, materials are better, and the house has more amenities.  If you were to build the same house you dad bought it wouldn't cost nearly as much compared to the average 2100sf builder make nowadays.

But to support your point the median income has not grown as much as the top 10% of incomes.  So yes, it's those people in the top 10% that are driving prices up because they can afford to buy more than just one home.  Perfect example is San Francisco, besides the tech industry workers driving up prices, foreigners are buying property as investments and not living in them further lowering inventory and driving up prices.

HappyHoya

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #64 on: June 16, 2016, 01:59:47 PM »
I agree with a lot of what mtn said. I am the oldest of a very spread out group of siblings and I see the younger ones and their peers having a very different approach to life, but I don't think it's all on them. I feel like I had a huge advantage in life (even though none of it was handed to me) by being able to go to college (while working) before the big recent recession. I was able to work, save, and feel what that freedom and accomplishment meant to me. They are not motivated by the same things and I can't tell if I've just drank the cool-aid and they are more laid back, or if it's because it's so much harder for them to get those initial successes that feed into a habit of being successful and responsible. Combine that with endless jokes about millennials and how they are all big babies and frankly, I don't blame them. I wouldn't want to work harder than the people before me to not only get less rewards, but to be criticized along the way. Whatever reality is, there is a very strong negative perception and young people just don't have the life experience to know to take it all with a grain of salt. I can't honestly say that I know how I would have acted if I were just ten years younger.

mtn

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #65 on: June 16, 2016, 02:10:36 PM »
Dad bought a house that was 1/2 of his income in 1978. I'll be lucky to buy one for twice my wife's and my combined incomes, and most other things are equal in that comparison.

One reason for the increase in housing prices relative to income is lifestyle inflation.  Square footage is bigger, materials are better, and the house has more amenities.  If you were to build the same house you dad bought it wouldn't cost nearly as much compared to the average 2100sf builder make nowadays.


I'm not so sure on this. I feel like a lot of homes that I've been in built today are just not built as well as the old ones are/were. And what amenities do I have in a house that my dad did not in 1976? Everything is improved, sure, but other than a microwave and cable for tv I can't think of much that is "new". Heck, the last place I lived didn't even have central AC whereas his did!

Some of that I'm sure is that the crappy houses back then didn't make it to now though.

markbike528CBX

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #66 on: June 16, 2016, 02:18:28 PM »
Following. 

We have friends with 29 and 25yr olds still in the house. 
If my mommy and daddy paid for all my drinks at the bars, I might consider home life worth it, but I hope I'm better than that. 

We also have 21 and 20 (SO) in the house sometimes, the dad of the 21yr old lives right around the corner, so they are mostly at the other house lately.

I like the guest room idea.   We have to gut and redoo thier former bedroom anyway.

Me:  College, back for freshman and senior years summers, no real problems.   I seemed to have the "automatic" notion that I should move on (and out) at some point.

My mother moved in with me after a divorce.   
I told her "You need to be in at a reasonable hour!" -- but just in fun.
A shared studio was a little tight, but it worked out far better than I would have expected (she was there about a year).

edit- grammar
« Last Edit: June 17, 2016, 08:43:50 AM by markbike528CBX »

MrsDinero

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #67 on: June 16, 2016, 03:03:08 PM »
Is it that times are harder, or the kids have it easier, or are they a product of the times or their upper middle class lifestyle?

...

It's interesting that it's all men, not the daughters.
It's interesting that it's all upper class white boys.

I've been wondering about this too.  My (unofficial, unscientific) theory is that with each generation of new parents always want their kids to have it better than they did.  With this it is creating certain "natural" expectations from the next kid generation.  When the kids become parents they don't focus on what their parents gave them, they always seem to remember the things they never got. 

Parent: "I never got to play sports so my kid is going to play all the sports."  Never mind that when they were a kid they got unstructured play and built amazing structures with their Legos, no they just remember what they didn't get.

I also think that all this "Do what you love and never work a day in your life" makes a lot of very unrealistic job expectations.  I remember my father doing jobs that most people would turn their noses up today.  He didn't do it because he loved it.  I didn't fullfilled every hope and dream he had, he did it because he had a family to house and feed. 

While we all want our kids to be happy, I see a lot of 20's and 30's unemployed because their job didn't make them happy or it wasn't what they thought it would be. 

I have more to add about the daughters and sons but I will have to revisit this post later.


AlwaysLearningToSave

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #68 on: June 16, 2016, 03:19:53 PM »
It's interesting that it's all men, not the daughters.
It's interesting that it's all upper class white boys.

I, too, see an anecdotal general pattern of young men being more likely to flounder and young women being more likely to thrive. 

I'm not sure what to attribute it to, but my best speculative theory so far is the changing nature of the work.  There are fewer opportunities to make a living with manual labor or physical talent.  Women are socialized from a young age to be more emotionally intelligent and skillful at managing relationships, which are skills essential to success in the modern workplace.  Young men are more likely to lack the soft skills they need to be successful, even if they are otherwise talented and capable. 

mozar

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #69 on: June 16, 2016, 05:15:28 PM »
Quote
I'm not sure what to attribute it to, but my best speculative theory so far is the changing nature of the work.  There are fewer opportunities to make a living with manual labor or physical talent.  Women are socialized from a young age to be more emotionally intelligent and skillful at managing relationships, which are skills essential to success in the modern workplace.  Young men are more likely to lack the soft skills they need to be successful, even if they are otherwise talented and capable.

I agree with this but I wonder, didn't upper class baby boomer men flounder for awhile before they became yuppies in the 80's? My 3 uncles weren't hippies exactly but they all struggled as young men to find stable work and didn't really get good jobs until their 30's.

The income's of lower class men has been declining and women's income has never caught up as women still make less than men, which is a whole different issue. The OP doesn't say which group they are talking about.
Article about income stagnation:http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/04/womens-wages-are-rising-why-are-so-many-families-getting-poorer/359991/

ender

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #70 on: June 16, 2016, 06:38:25 PM »
I'm not sure what to attribute it to, but my best speculative theory so far is the changing nature of the work.  There are fewer opportunities to make a living with manual labor or physical talent.  Women are socialized from a young age to be more emotionally intelligent and skillful at managing relationships, which are skills essential to success in the modern workplace.  Young men are more likely to lack the soft skills they need to be successful, even if they are otherwise talented and capable.

Pornography and video games?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/porn-and-video-game-addiction-are-leading-to-masculinity-crisis-says-stanford-prison-experiment-10238211.html

*inb4anecdotalexperiences-->categorigallydisagreeingwithme*

JustTrying

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #71 on: June 16, 2016, 07:29:55 PM »
I moved out from ages 17-21 to attend college. Moved back for 3 years, which my parents made super easy on me - no rent, I ate their food, was horribly messy and unhelpful with cleaning, they didn't enforce any rules or curfews, etc. Moved out at age 24 to go to graduate school across the country. I think the way to get me out would have been if they had given me a curfew. My parents didn't help us pay for college, so I think they viewed letting me live with them after graduation as a way to help me out with my student loans. But...I wouldn't want my adult child living with me after college!

Ladychips

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #72 on: June 16, 2016, 08:15:48 PM »
Lived with my dad until my junior year of (local) college.  Moved out about a month after he remarried.  Loved living with my dad.  Hated living with his wife (but in hindsight, I needed to move out to give them a life together).  My mom sent me $20 a month so that I could afford an apartment with a shower (instead of just a bathtub).  I was very grateful.

Never moved back home but did move in with my grandma for about a year (very common in my family; I bet she had 15 different family members live with her over the years).

Funny thing is, now 30 years later, after living in a couple of other states,  I live next door to my dad...and the same wife he married all those years ago!

StarBright

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #73 on: June 17, 2016, 07:35:58 AM »
Quote
I'm not sure what to attribute it to, but my best speculative theory so far is the changing nature of the work.  There are fewer opportunities to make a living with manual labor or physical talent.  Women are socialized from a young age to be more emotionally intelligent and skillful at managing relationships, which are skills essential to success in the modern workplace.  Young men are more likely to lack the soft skills they need to be successful, even if they are otherwise talented and capable.

I agree with this but I wonder, didn't upper class baby boomer men flounder for awhile before they became yuppies in the 80's? My 3 uncles weren't hippies exactly but they all struggled as young men to find stable work and didn't really get good jobs until their 30's.

The income's of lower class men has been declining and women's income has never caught up as women still make less than men, which is a whole different issue. The OP doesn't say which group they are talking about.
Article about income stagnation:http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/04/womens-wages-are-rising-why-are-so-many-families-getting-poorer/359991/

My baby boomer dad definitely lived with his parent into his mid twenties and floundered a bit (this would have been in the 70s). He'd go to school and work part time for a semester or two and then take 3-4 months off and ride trains around Europe, then go back to school again, then take more time off to go on an extended camping/hiking trip out west. He lived with his folks until he got married to my mom. Then he settled down and finished his degree and got the stable job.

Maybe it is a midwest thing, but I'm pretty sure all of my aunts and most of my uncles (and my parents) lived at home until they were married. The next generation (X's and Millennials), in contrast, has been much more likely to move out younger, but conversely, more likely to bounce back when jobs or divorces hit - interesting.

AlwaysLearningToSave

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #74 on: June 17, 2016, 08:05:02 AM »
Quote
I'm not sure what to attribute it to, but my best speculative theory so far is the changing nature of the work.  There are fewer opportunities to make a living with manual labor or physical talent.  Women are socialized from a young age to be more emotionally intelligent and skillful at managing relationships, which are skills essential to success in the modern workplace.  Young men are more likely to lack the soft skills they need to be successful, even if they are otherwise talented and capable.

I agree with this but I wonder, didn't upper class baby boomer men flounder for awhile before they became yuppies in the 80's?  . . .

My baby boomer dad definitely lived with his parent into his mid twenties and floundered a bit (this would have been in the 70s).
. . .

Maybe its nothing new.  Girls mature more quickly than boys, even from a very young age.  Maybe young women have always been generally "ahead of the game" compared to men of the same age but the difference is more apparent now that young women have much more equal economic opportunities than they have had in earlier generations.  Or maybe its not an actual phenomenon and we just perceive it to be based on anecdotal experiences.  Who knows...

By the River

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #75 on: June 17, 2016, 08:08:36 AM »
I lived at home during the first two summers when I was in college.  I had an internship for the third summer and rented a friend's couch for $50/month.  After college, I never lived at home. 

I have a 20 year old living at home now.  He decided college wasn't for him but works 2 part-time jobs and another occasional job as well.  He averages over 50 hours per week and this week had his first day off completely from work in 54 days.  I charge him $200 per month.  I have given him the talk that by 22 he should be in his own apartment and a full-time job.   I guess I'll keep increasing the rent every 6 months so that its cost effective to be out. 

Credaholic

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #76 on: June 17, 2016, 10:46:10 AM »
...he let it slip that he was only living there to establish "ownership" of the home so that when they pass, the house would become his only.  It had to do with a some sort of loophole about him being my parents dependent (but not the tax kind) after a certain number of years and therefore would not be able to be evicted in the time of their passing if the house was to be part of an inheritance left to us kids.  Clearly he had done his homework.

Whoa. Can you point me to any more info on the laws he'd looked into on this? I have an adult brother who had some kind of nervous breakdown and has been living with my parents now for years refusing to get any kind of help. He's financially dependent on them as he has no job and went through savings in the first couple of years, and things are not good between him and my parents. Almost all of their net worth lies in their house so this would be a big concern if it's true!

SimplyMarvie

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #77 on: June 17, 2016, 10:48:00 AM »
It's interesting reading this thread living in a country where it's normal and expected for kids to live at home until they're married and set up and even beyond. I talk to young people all day and a majority of them are very entrepreneurial, starting their own firms, with their own hustles, their own plans. A lot of them are coding, landlords, saving and investing... all the sorts of things that seem to be advocated by Mustachians.

But they're living with their parents, and that seems to be part of what makes all the other parts possible -- median income here is really low, but if you're living in the family house and mom and grandpa grow 2/3rds of your food, and your main expenses are taxi fare and cigarettes, it's way easier to get that first nest egg for your first hustle. Or go into the 'family business'. It's a really different way of being 'family focused' than I see in the US, and to be honest... I kind of like this country's way better.

MrsDinero

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #78 on: June 17, 2016, 10:53:09 AM »
...he let it slip that he was only living there to establish "ownership" of the home so that when they pass, the house would become his only.  It had to do with a some sort of loophole about him being my parents dependent (but not the tax kind) after a certain number of years and therefore would not be able to be evicted in the time of their passing if the house was to be part of an inheritance left to us kids.  Clearly he had done his homework.

Whoa. Can you point me to any more info on the laws he'd looked into on this? I have an adult brother who had some kind of nervous breakdown and has been living with my parents now for years refusing to get any kind of help. He's financially dependent on them as he has no job and went through savings in the first couple of years, and things are not good between him and my parents. Almost all of their net worth lies in their house so this would be a big concern if it's true!
This was in Texas and I'm not sure of the exact law.  My parents were the ones who told me what he said and it wasn't easy to get the information out of them.  I only found out about it when I kept pressing them about "the straw that broke the camel's back" on getting him to move out. 

mm1970

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #79 on: June 17, 2016, 11:09:46 AM »
I think there are a lot of things that factor into what you've said mm1970.

(For reference, I'm 26)

I won't be as successful as my dad. Well, I might be, but I'm not willing to work as hard as he did for it and I don't think I'll have the same growth opportunities that he did anyways (more competition now--a lot more college degrees and women in the workplace now than when dad started). I've lived the upper-middle class life he provided, and I wasn't any more or less happy then than when I was living a lower-middle class life out of college.
Second, my dad could pay for college at a private school by working in the summer. I did that to, and with scholarships, a job that paid way more than average for a middle school/high school/college kid during the summer, and a part time job during the school year (and summer too), I could get 75% of my public college costs not including my car, insurance, and phone. I was lucky that my parents provided the rest, because I don't have student loans now. I think a lot more kids now are saddled with student debt than were back then, and that causes people to live at home.
Lastly, the housing market to my knowledge (I could be wrong) has inflated way more than incomes--even after the bubble burst. Dad bought a house that was 1/2 of his income in 1978. I'll be lucky to buy one for twice my wife's and my combined incomes, and most other things are equal in that comparison.
This is where it becomes hard for me to judge for a couple of reasons:
1.  I grew up poor, not middle class. So I don't have a feel for what it was "like" for the middle class in the 1970s, when I was born.
2.  I'm a female, and the first generation to go to college.  In my vast number of cousins, I have a couple of female older cousins who went to nursing school.  None of my older male cousins went to college, but a few went into the military (then one went to college on GI bill after).
My year there were 4 cousins, 2 boys 2 girls all went to college.  The girls got master's degrees.
6 - 11 years younger than me, the two youngest cousins, both female, have PhDs.

So as far as the debt goes - I think those of us who went
1.  Got financial aid because we were poor
2.  Didn't live a typical lifestyle of a college student, because we were poor.  We had jobs.  Didn't travel.  And after college, worked hard to pay back debt first, because that's how we were raised.  And I feared debt, so I joined the Navy ROTC program after year #1, which meant tuition was covered.  My loans were for year #1 and then 3 years of room & board.

ETA, a little google tells me that the average student loan debt in 1992-93 (I graduated in 92) was $12,434.  My debt was about $11k, maybe a little more.
Average debt in 2012 was $26,885.  This corresponds to an increase of approx 4% each year.

As a comparison, my degree is in Chem E. Avg starting salary 1992: $40k. (My salary was much lower, as I was in the Navy.)  In 2012: $66,400.  Corresponding to 2.6% increase per year.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2016, 11:17:53 AM by mm1970 »

mm1970

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #80 on: June 17, 2016, 11:20:43 AM »
Quote
I also think that all this "Do what you love and never work a day in your life" makes a lot of very unrealistic job expectations.  I remember my father doing jobs that most people would turn their noses up today.  He didn't do it because he loved it.  I didn't fullfilled every hope and dream he had, he did it because he had a family to house and feed. 

For sure this is a thing too.  I remember being in my 20s and hearing about how my generation should follow their passion.  By age 30 it seemed like it was maybe not the best thing.  Because what if you start to dislike your job?  Then you start to question everything.

I read (and still own) a book called "It's Called WORK for a Reason", to remind me that I'm getting paid.  That's why I work.

mtn

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #81 on: June 17, 2016, 11:43:39 AM »
Quote
I also think that all this "Do what you love and never work a day in your life" makes a lot of very unrealistic job expectations.  I remember my father doing jobs that most people would turn their noses up today.  He didn't do it because he loved it.  I didn't fullfilled every hope and dream he had, he did it because he had a family to house and feed. 

For sure this is a thing too.  I remember being in my 20s and hearing about how my generation should follow their passion.  By age 30 it seemed like it was maybe not the best thing.  Because what if you start to dislike your job?  Then you start to question everything.

I read (and still own) a book called "It's Called WORK for a Reason", to remind me that I'm getting paid.  That's why I work.

My wife always tells me I need to do what I love--she does, she loves food and so is a Dietitian.

Yeah, well I love hockey, but I can't make it to the NHL as a player and won't as a ref because I probably can't, and don't want the travel. Not to mention the income isn't there while you make your way to the NHL; and if you don't make it, you've lost your prime income growing years.

Its the same for most things that I love to do. People don't get paid to read novels and go fishing. The one thing I enjoy that I could make money at is personal finances, but then I have a soul and wouldn't actually get paid (see John Oliver).

catccc

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #82 on: June 17, 2016, 12:00:39 PM »
I didn't move out for good until I was 27, right before I got married.  I was working full time and saving money.  I like to think I helped out at home, but I probably didn't do as much as I should have.  I did live independently for a while before that, until I graduated college at 23.  I worked and paid my way through college while living on my own, so it wasn't like I was a complete burden from 18 to 27.  I guess I was a boomerang kid for 4 years.  I don't think my parents minded that I was there.  I worked close by and it made a lot of sense for me to live at home and save up.  They knew I planned to stay until I got married.  Yeah, I gave up some freedom, but I mostly got along well with my parents and it was a great trade off for the savings for me.  We talked about them charging "rent" and saving it on my behalf, with the intention of returning the "rent" to me as a down payment on my first house.  But ultimately decided we didn't need such arrangements given my proclivity to save on my own.    And I never would have complained about a shower head.

Also, my parents are immigrants to the US, so it isn't the typical "you are 18, get your stuff and get out" kind of thinking in our family.

I'll let my kids stay as long as they want, provided they are being productive and responsible.  And respectful of the other residents in our house.  They are only 5 & 7 right now, so adult children in the house is still a far away prospect...

Apples

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #83 on: June 17, 2016, 12:23:26 PM »
I went to college out of town, moved home for the longest 7 months of my life while redoing a house to live in, and then moved out.*  It was very much "house rules".  Even as a teenager, I wasn't allowed to paint my room b/c my parents said I was living in a room of their house.  Their view was very much it's their house, rules, and choices, and we just get to live with them.  (note, I had great parents, just not pushovers when it came to us kids)  Also, my mom used to be an elementary school teacher, and she can never quite shake that when telling us what to do around the house and talking to us in general.  No 23 year old wants to be asked if they need to use the potty before they leave.  Especially in front of their friends.  Also, the ability to do what I wanted, when I wanted to.  I could wait until Saturday and wash all the dishes at once, or go to bed really late, or go to bed really early, or WHATEVER I wanted.  It's magical.  While living at home I certainly had the autonomy to do what I wanted (except for chores-I could not neglect those and do all my dishes at the end of the week), but I would be asked if I was feeling ok, or if I was tired the next day, etc.  I was just tired of my parents knowing what I did all the time, and could afford a place on my own.

*The house in on our family farm.  The nearest apartment for rent would make for a 20 minute commute to work, and the long term plan is to live on the farm.  So I moved directly into a house out of college, which is unusual for my generation.

PAstash

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #84 on: June 17, 2016, 12:32:33 PM »
I don't mean to be graphic I was told i was not allowed to entertain female guests. Needless to say i was out ASAP.

Matilda

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #85 on: June 17, 2016, 12:45:49 PM »
... No 23 year old wants to be asked if they need to use the potty before they leave.  Especially in front of their friends.  Also, the ability to do what I wanted, when I wanted to.  I could wait until Saturday and wash all the dishes at once, or go to bed really late, or go to bed really early, or WHATEVER I wanted.  It's magical.  While living at home I certainly had the autonomy to do what I wanted (except for chores-I could not neglect those and do all my dishes at the end of the week), but I would be asked if I was feeling ok, or if I was tired the next day, etc.  I was just tired of my parents knowing what I did all the time, and could afford a place on my own.

*The house in on our family farm.  The nearest apartment for rent would make for a 20 minute commute to work, and the long term plan is to live on the farm.  So I moved directly into a house out of college, which is unusual for my generation.

." No 23 year old wants to be asked if they need to use the potty before they leave". Thank you, this will now be my secret weapon. 

dcheesi

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #86 on: June 17, 2016, 12:59:54 PM »
Graduated, got a job in another city.

Both of my brothers have lived at home at different times in their adult lives. There's a room off of the garage that's been occupied by one or the other of them probably for more time than it's sat empty. One brother was there between marriages; the other while he was saving up for a down-payment on a house; then the first one again when he was pushed out of his job in the middle of the downturn.

That last one turned out to be a godsend, as my parents' health has deteriorated to point where they really can't keep up with household tasks without help. They would probably have been too proud to ask for help until things got really bad; but since my brother was there living with them already, he could see what was really going on, and they didn't mind asking him to pull his weight around the house. He's still there helping them out, even though his financial situation has improved.

SomedayStache

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #87 on: June 17, 2016, 01:40:05 PM »
Tiger Mom is back and this article seems relevant.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-tiger-mother-guide-to-renting-to-your-children-1465570914

Here's the contract Tiger Mom is making her two 20 something daughter's sign:
NOW THEREFORE

In exchange for Amy and Jed allowing them to stay in their NYC apartment from June 1, 2016 to August 1, 2016, Sophia Chua-Rubenfeld and Louisa Chua-Rubenfeld agree to the following irrevocable duties and conditions:

1. To occupy only the junior bedroom.

2. To greet Jed Rubenfeld & Amy Chua with spontaneous joy and gratitude whenever they visit.

3. To make their (joint) bed every day, and not to fight about who does it.

4. To never, ever use the phrase, “Relax—it’s not a big deal.”

5. To always leave all internal doors in the apartment wide open whenever Jed, Amy or any company whatsoever (including relatives) are in the apartment, with an immaculately made bed in full view and no clothing or other junk on the floor of the bedroom in sight.

6. Whenever any guests visit, to come out of the bedroom immediately in a respectable state, greet the guests with enthusiasm, and sit and converse with the guests in the living room for at least 15 minutes.

7. To always be kind to our trusty Samoyeds Coco and Pushkin, who Sophia and Louisa hereby agree have greater rights to the apartment than Sophia and Louisa do, and to walk them to the dog park at least once a day when they visit, within 30 minutes of being asked to do so by Amy.

8. To fill the refrigerator with fresh OJ from Fairway for Jed on days when he is in town.

9. To keep the pillows in the living room in the right place and PLUMPED and to clean the glass table with Windex whenever it is used.

ADDITIONALLY, Sophia and Louisa agree that the above duties and conditions will not be excused even in the event of illness, hangovers, migraines, work crises or mental breakdowns (whether their own or their friends’).

Sophia and Louisa agree that if they violate any one of these conditions, Amy and Jed will have the right to get the Superintendent or a doorman to restrain them from entering the apartment; and to change the locks.

Murse

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #88 on: June 17, 2016, 01:54:34 PM »
On a different Thread, the OP asked if they were being unreasonable because they switched out to very low flow shower heads, after accepting 4 adults (related) into their home to "help them get on their feet".

My thought is that it is "house rules" as much as savings that encourage our adult family to move into their own place.

Why did YOU move out of your parent's home?  Why did you look for a job that took you away, or what "house rules" or annoyances encouraged you to become independent?

I will start:

I moved out for two reasons -- I took a 4 month contract out of town for my first "real" job, but it was easy to go and never come back because of house rules including:
. worrying parents if I stayed out past midnight (not a curfew, but I knew it disturbed their sleep and they worried)
. 20 year old single bed with a spring that poked out.  Buying furniture for myself never occured to me.
. not being able to leave anything outside of my room for more than 3 hours.  Shoes at the front door, purse near the stairs, laptop on the end table, etc.
. only using the kitchen if I left it immaculate, and not when my mom may want to use it.   
.  General feeling like it was their house, their ways, and I was not invited to request any changes to the order in the home...  had to ask if I wanted to store anything outside of my room, use common space in a different way, etc.
. having friends over, this was not really the place.  (I don't mean romantic interests either... any friends over was a bit awkward unless a formal invite for a barbeque that included my parents).
. suburbs away from other friends.

What about you?  Why did you move out of your home?

What would work to get Adult "guests" out of your home more quickly?
I moved out at 23. I had finished college and been working full time for 6 months in a relatively high paying field.  A friend of mine in a different city lost his roomate and needed a new one. Basically I moved out because I could afford it and had the opportunity to share costs with someone I knew. My parents were actually upset that I moved out. Once I found a job that was a slightly more reasonable commute I left. I am currently waiting to get my 1 year in so that I can transfer for a much shorter commute.

randymarsh

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #89 on: June 17, 2016, 03:15:21 PM »
I'm hoping the Tiger Mom contract was tongue in cheek. I'd rather my parents charge me rent than have me sign some silly list of rules.

Quote
To always leave all internal doors in the apartment wide open whenever Jed, Amy or any company whatsoever (including relatives) are in the apartment, with an immaculately made bed in full view and no clothing or other junk on the floor of the bedroom in sight.

Your adult child can't go to their room, close the door, and listen to some music in an hour? I had more privileges in my parents' house when I was 16.


Suze456

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #90 on: June 17, 2016, 03:17:57 PM »
Left home at 18 to go to college - never moved back.

On the other hand, dh only left home when we got married. Marry them off??

Almost 30 year old sister is still at home...pays no bills, gets her laundry and ironing done for her, health insurance paid for her, dinner cooked for her...comfy much!

lostamonkey

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #91 on: June 17, 2016, 05:25:29 PM »
I'm hoping the Tiger Mom contract was tongue in cheek. I'd rather my parents charge me rent than have me sign some silly list of rules.

Quote
To always leave all internal doors in the apartment wide open whenever Jed, Amy or any company whatsoever (including relatives) are in the apartment, with an immaculately made bed in full view and no clothing or other junk on the floor of the bedroom in sight.

Your adult child can't go to their room, close the door, and listen to some music in an hour? I had more privileges in my parents' house when I was 16.

I agree with this. Those rules are really unreasonable.

RetiredAt63

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #92 on: June 18, 2016, 11:01:28 AM »
I'm hoping the Tiger Mom contract was tongue in cheek. I'd rather my parents charge me rent than have me sign some silly list of rules.

Quote
To always leave all internal doors in the apartment wide open whenever Jed, Amy or any company whatsoever (including relatives) are in the apartment, with an immaculately made bed in full view and no clothing or other junk on the floor of the bedroom in sight.

Your adult child can't go to their room, close the door, and listen to some music in an hour? I had more privileges in my parents' house when I was 16.

I agree with this. Those rules are really unreasonable.
#7 is good.  Missy disagrees, she thinks it should be minimum 2x/day.

Zikoris

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #93 on: June 18, 2016, 01:42:46 PM »
One more thing to throw in - teach your kids proper life skills if you want them to be independent. I think by the time a kid turns 18-ish they should be competent at cooking, cleaning, fixing things, managing time and money, and everything involving jobs - writing a resume and cover letter, interviewing, applying, and keeping jobs after they get them (appropriate conduct at work, not being late, etc). The failure-to-launch people I know are consistently lacking in at least some of those, sometimes even all of them.

I think having a lot of those skills also gives kids the confidence to move out, because it makes the "real world" a LOT less scary.

LeRainDrop

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #94 on: June 18, 2016, 02:08:20 PM »
One more thing to throw in - teach your kids proper life skills if you want them to be independent. I think by the time a kid turns 18-ish they should be competent at cooking, cleaning, fixing things, managing time and money, and everything involving jobs - writing a resume and cover letter, interviewing, applying, and keeping jobs after they get them (appropriate conduct at work, not being late, etc). The failure-to-launch people I know are consistently lacking in at least some of those, sometimes even all of them.

I think having a lot of those skills also gives kids the confidence to move out, because it makes the "real world" a LOT less scary.

Add laundry, dish washing, ironing, snow shoveling / cleaning off the car, basic car maintenance.  I had a friend in college who had no idea how to deposit money into the bank -- only how to use the ATM to withdraw cash.

darkadams00

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #95 on: June 19, 2016, 10:36:23 PM »
I gave my sons a simple rule--You have one free year after high school. If you don't go to college (both did), then your year starts while you obtain and learn a quick full-time trade/job that will pay rent somewhere. If you go to college, you can have your year after graduation if needed. In all cases, the year is an employed year. Failure to become and remain employed means I help them find a rent-a-room in town, and I'll pay the first 90 days. Afterwards, they're on their own. They've known that since they were pre-teens, so it's never been an issue. When they were teens still in HS I walked them downtown by the rent-a-rooms so they could make an informed decision.  :)

My oldest son had one stumble, but he recovered quickly. My younger has not been an issue at all. I don't expect either one to ask to boomerang back to our home. And their rooms are now an office and a non-personal guest room--their personal items have been sent with them or are stored in our attic. Long-established expectations seem to be the missing element for many families struggling with this issue.

Villanelle

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #96 on: June 19, 2016, 11:27:06 PM »
I loved out during college, though I attended a local university.  I moved back in at some point, and moved out shortly after graduating because I got engaged.  However, I likely would have moved out soon anyway, once I'd gotten an adult job and gotten established.  This is what my sister did.  Staying at home longer than necessary (defined as getting established in a real job, I guess) was never a consideration.  My parents are wonderful, and I have a great relationship with them, but living with parents is not something I ever thought healthy adults do, except in unusual circumstances.  And I don't ever recall a specific conversation, but I think I sensed that was my parents' expectation as well.  My older sister moved out for college, moved home for about a year while she got established, then moved out.  I think had either of us lingered, there would have been a Talk, and perhaps a demand for rent.

When I was evacuated from Japan, I needed a place to stay in the States, and my parents happily opened their home.  I think I was there for two months. There were incredibly generous and wonderful, but I was ready to leave and have my own household again.  Having my mom insist that I needed to gather my dirty laundry Right Now! because she was doing a load, when I was in the middle of Whatever and would happily have done my own laundry at a more convenient time, got old. Again, I very much appreciated them giving me a place, but sharing a home when you aren't used to it is tough.  I generally did as they asked, because I was staying in their home, but they will always be my parents and thus will want to parent me, which is much more comfortable in smaller doses. 

Lia-Aimee

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #97 on: June 20, 2016, 06:51:40 PM »
Moved away for university and never came back.  Doing anything different was never an option because my parents lived in a small town where there are no post-secondary opportunities and, unless you're a business owner, the only professional-level jobs are healthcare and education (neither field interested me.) If I moved back my only option would be working a seasonal, minimum wage job in hospitality. 


Looking at my friends (average age ~25-30) the wide variety of attitudes towards living-at-home astonishes me. I grew up in a low-income area where virtually everyone was moved out by age 18 (some at 15) and most people, at least the women, have multiple children themselves.  If you're struggling with housing, you look to the government not to your family.  My university group of friends who grew up much more affluent and in major cities, well, I'd say half of them still live with their parents* and at least a half of that group only work very sporadically / in the same jobs as they had as teenagers, and focus on pursuing their interests, travel very extensively, etc (note these folk all have pretty good degrees.) People I've met since then are all over the board as to when they moved out, but those with wealthier parents invariably stayed at home longer, as did people whose parents live in larger cities.


*Note for this context I'm talking about living with parents well below market costs, not referring to people who pay generous room and board to a family member, or who have primary caregiving responsibilities for the family member with whom they live.

MoneyCat

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #98 on: June 20, 2016, 06:55:58 PM »
I moved out of my parents' house because they said "You are 18 years old so we are no longer legally required to provide for you. Pack up your shit and get out of here." And I've been on my own ever since. Coincidentally, my parents have been sniffing around since I'm doing well financially now and they are getting up there in years. I told them "You are in your late 60s. I'm not legally required to provide for you. Hope you can afford a good retirement home."

seathink

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Re: How to get Adult Children out of the House?
« Reply #99 on: June 20, 2016, 07:26:18 PM »
We were raised pretty independent and always had to work if we wanted any money for "fun stuff", so have been working pretty steady since about age 12-13.
No real issues with the parents, just wanted to be on my own, got a good job right out of high school and couldn't wait to get moved out.   Within a couple months of HS graduation I moved out, bought my own car and was doing my own thing.


We were all taught all the basics of adult living. My sister and I moved out for college, my brother for the Military. I stayed with my parents for a few months after college when I filmed a feature film, then temped to raise up 2K to move to LA.

Family philosophies differ, though. My sister-in-law was a real Southern Bell. Her sister went from school to college to marriage at home, only moving out after the honeymoon. My SIL stayed through the PhD and then got her own place, after some firm counseling from my mom about the need to live on one's own before marriage (her and my bro only dating then.

Her family was gobsmacked that she had the "fortitude" and "bravery" to live on her own as a 25 year old with a full-time professional job. (Quoting from the Father of the Bride speech her dad gave).