Author Topic: How to convince my husband to quit his job?  (Read 17716 times)

Miss Growing Green

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How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« on: March 01, 2017, 02:41:13 PM »
I wasn't sure if this was the best forum for my question, so apologies if not.  I'll try to keep this as succinct as possible without losing too many details.  I'm looking for advice for how to discuss this topic with my husband... it always seems to end in an argument or at least a disagreement.
We've been "mustachians" for about a decade now (we're in our early/mid 30s).  We've also been together about 10 years.  We are married, have a 2.5 year old and a 4 month old.  We met in grad school (ecology), after our Master's degrees I gave up career pursuit in order to focus on earning money and preparing for our eventual family.  Husband went on to get PhD, then did a 3-year postdoc, and just last August finally landed a permanent job as faculty at a university.  He *loves* his work.  It is his passion, but so are our kids.  During the time hubby was schooling / earning, I was growing our rental property business and we're at a place now that the rental business is enough to support our current lifestyle and grow by an additional 20% each year (so basically my husband's salary isn't "needed").

Anyway, all of this back story leads me to the point: I don't like our life.  We know we aren't having any more children, and I'm happy with that decision.  What I'm unhappy with is the feeling that we are always tired, stressed, extremely busy, and never have ANY time for ourselves or each other.  I know most Americans feel that way, especially if you have little ones, but we have the financial choice to be two stay at home parents if we want to. I want my husband to quit his job, or dial it WAYYY back, at least until the kids start school (or one kid starts school even). 
My husband's side of things is that he wants to "work hard" now so he can get tenure, at which point he thinks he will be able to relax more in his career.  I feel like there's "the next thing" mentality going on. "Once I get my PhD... after I get this post doc finished... after I get accepted for a permanent position", the goal on the horizon is always going to be there.  This isn't necessarily a bad thing if you're aware of it, but if you are deluding yourself into thinking a break is around the corner, you might wake up one day at 65 and realize you worked yourself to the bone and never took that break.  He is in a high-powered career with a lot of pressure and peer pressure.  His colleagues don't have young kids and don't understand why he doesn't want to go to evening/weekend engagements outside of work.
I am saddened because I know this is our last baby, and I don't want to miss this precious time with our kids before school, when we are their whole world and every minute is time they want to spend with us.  Our relationship and personal time are also suffering because there is just too little time to go around.
Has anyone been through a similar scenario?  Any words of advice, strategies for successfully convincing my husband of this?  I am worried he will look back and regret not spending more time with the kids when they were young.  I am worried I will look back and resent him for not being there more, because while I get to be here with the kids, I am not my best self (due to being stressed, tired, etc. from dealing with our too complicated life).
Help fellow Mustachians!

MayDay

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2017, 02:55:04 PM »
I think expecting him to quit a tenure track academic position that he just started, after just spending a decade to get the training for that job, is a pipe dream.

More realistically might be to convince him to have a parenting/childbirth LOA for one semester.  I know female professors easily take off a semester for a baby, I don't know why he couldn't.

But I think you are in for a lot of resentment if you expect him to quit at this point for any other reason than him wanting too.  Sounds like you have twice as much money as you spend monthly.  Sounds like its time to hire out whatever is making you stressed.

Dave1442397

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2017, 03:02:33 PM »
I agree with MayDay.

I think you should look at options that might create more time for you, whether it's a housecleaning service, landscapers, laundry service, meal delivery...use some of that extra money to get rid of the mundane tasks in your life.

prognastat

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2017, 03:03:34 PM »
I would have to agree with MayDay.

Forcing him to quit his job if he really loves it is just wrong. If the money isn't necessary though I don't think it would be unacceptable to expect him to not be putting in any more hours than he needs to. Spending more time together with someone can be stressful on it's own, but feeling like you were forced to do so is bound to generate resentment on his part and so it wouldn't be a solution unless you are ok with your husband resenting you and potentially being done with the relationship if too much resentment builds up.

If you want more time together and you aren't able to get all chores done in the time your husband isn't home possibly use the excess money to hire help. this could mean more time in the evening/afternoon for your family to spend time together. Through doing this if your husband finds he enjoys spending more time at home instead of at work he might voluntarily dial down his career.

I would generally not advocate for hiring people to do your house work, however if you already have enough o be FIRe and your husband wants to work a job simply for the satisfaction possibly putting some of the excess funds towards paying to relieve some of the mundane tasks and have more time together can be worth it such as someone to maintain the yard, clean around the house etc.

caracarn

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2017, 03:07:09 PM »
People rarely put in an much work as he has to get to the role he has to just walk away from it. 

It may not be that helpful, but I think you're only real option, unless you want a lot of arguments and possibly worse (divorce) is to deal with your feelings and emotions about this to guard against being resentful and realize your husband will need to realize what he wants.  If he truly wants that time at home, he'll make it happen.  Given that you are arguing about it now, it seems pretty clear he wants the job.  I think pressing it to get him to do what you want, is a losing proposition.  These are the things that make relationships very hard and once your married if you find unaligned goals it can lead to really poor outcomes if you cannot find a way to navigate.  If you both dig in, it seems from what you shared that you will end up in opposite places and have to decide what that means. 

The previous posters idea about identifying what stresses you and getting help for that is terrific.  If you both then feel the money spent on it is too much, that open a possible new channel of communication where you can try to get him to understand that it is too much for you to do without him home, so to not be miserable this is what needs to happen, or he could work out a way to be more present at home and you could cut that cost.  That approach might eventually move him more towards your desire.

Miss Growing Green

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2017, 03:14:52 PM »
Alright,
Appreciate the input so far.  I don't mean this to sound rude, but isn't it kind of "anti-mustachian" to make yourself a wage-slave so you can hire help?
We already have a bi-weekly housekeeper and a landscaping service. We regularly eat out to save time.  We also have a nanny that comes 4 hrs/week to help with the kids (I don't really want more than that because *I* want to be the one spending time with my kids)
I guess my point is- we worked so hard to get financially free, always with the goal of financial freedom in mind, and now we can't enjoy a truly free lifestyle. 
My husband loves his work, but he brings it home, works night when we are all asleep, and regularly has evening engagements as well as work travel.  He says himself he is tired and stressed, but yet he doesn't want to quit (yet anyway).
MayDay- Why is quitting the job a pipe dream?  Isn't this what MMM always talks about- walking away from a high powered career once you've "made it"?

We don't have a lot of "chores" in our lives outside of just raising the kids.  I've already (in my opinion) streamlined the chores and outsourced as much as possible.  We live in a very small house and are minimalists.

It's difficult to explain... do any of you responding have young kids, or have you ever had young kids?  They take A LOT of work.  I mean, almost every parent will tell you how exhausted they are if they have young ones.  I just see how much easier and more fun our lives would be if we had more time for things.  My husband never exercises, fishes, or plays sports anymore (all huge passions of his).  We can't afford to travel as much as we want, not because of money, but because work would suffer.  We don't have any time for friends, or each other.  By the time kids get to bed, we either both have to work (I work about 5-10 hours/week on the rentals/finances, but can only do that when kids are asleep) or we are too tired to do anything other than watch TV or something equally mindless.

prognastat

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2017, 03:25:05 PM »
Alright,
Appreciate the input so far.  I don't mean this to sound rude, but isn't it kind of "anti-mustachian" to make yourself a wage-slave so you can hire help?
We already have a bi-weekly housekeeper and a landscaping service. We regularly eat out to save time.  We also have a nanny that comes 4 hrs/week to help with the kids (I don't really want more than that because *I* want to be the one spending time with my kids)
I guess my point is- we worked so hard to get financially free, always with the goal of financial freedom in mind, and now we can't enjoy a truly free lifestyle. 
My husband loves his work, but he brings it home, works night when we are all asleep, and regularly has evening engagements as well as work travel.  He says himself he is tired and stressed, but yet he doesn't want to quit (yet anyway).
MayDay- Why is quitting the job a pipe dream?  Isn't this what MMM always talks about- walking away from a high powered career once you've "made it"?

We don't have a lot of "chores" in our lives outside of just raising the kids.  I've already (in my opinion) streamlined the chores and outsourced as much as possible.  We live in a very small house and are minimalists.

It's difficult to explain... do any of you responding have young kids, or have you ever had young kids?  They take A LOT of work.  I mean, almost every parent will tell you how exhausted they are if they have young ones.  I just see how much easier and more fun our lives would be if we had more time for things.  My husband never exercises, fishes, or plays sports anymore (all huge passions of his).  We can't afford to travel as much as we want, not because of money, but because work would suffer.  We don't have any time for friends, or each other.  By the time kids get to bed, we either both have to work (I work about 5-10 hours/week on the rentals/finances, but can only do that when kids are asleep) or we are too tired to do anything other than watch TV or something equally mindless.

I would say it would be anti-mustachian if you weren't FI and he didn't want to keep working. In that situation hiring help is forcing you to work longer than necessary. However in this case you are FI and your husband wants to do his job because he enjoys it and this happens to lead to more income that you need, but you want more time together. In this case using the excess funds to buy more time together when he isn't working though not optimal is probably the best option you have.

Also you say we, but given that you are FI and your husband wants to keep working it sounds more like it is really I want this lifestyle.

Of course we don't know the whole situation. I mean it is possible your husband simply doesn't trust you are actually FI in which case you might need to prove it by living off your investments/properties for a year first. However if despite complaining his job truly makes him satisfied when all is said and done then you making him quite will only lead to resentment on his part.

I would be digging very deep if the dream you talk about is your husbands dream, because if it isn't you are effectively asking your husband to give up his dream for the sake of yours which isn't fair.

omachi

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2017, 03:34:32 PM »
I agree that you might hire help so you're not doing work you don't want to, but disagree with the general assessment of the problem.

Those that excel in academic careers aren't the ones fooling themselves that it's going to get easier just around the corner. They're the ones that love the work, that feel it's a top priority, and are willing to embrace that lifestyle in order to actually push the edge of their field. Are they tired and stressed? Sure, but that's just the price to be paid.

When he says that he'll be able to relax more in his career in the future, that's most likely him stalling. Ask any tenured professor that loves their work if they work less now than before tenure. I think you know the answer. But, if he can convince you there's less work in the future, then he gets X more years of embracing his work before the next argument.

So, what to do? Any sort of nagging is probably going to have the opposite effect that you want. If he loves his work, he'll want to spend less time being nagged and more time working. Discussions that end in fights? Why fight when he can do what he loves? So confrontation is out.

Best bet in my opinion, find a way that he can embrace both the family and academia. Show him you support him following his passion. Heck, maybe go so far as to say you're sorry for trying to make him give it up, but you're deeply unhappy. Tell him you know he's passionate about his work and you don't want to take it away from him, but want him to be a part of your family, too. Start the conversation there, not at what he has to give up for you.

Maybe tell him you'll support him coming home late, leaving papers all over the dining table, etc. but he has to give you one day a week with no work, just family. That you'll tolerate the late night work if only he'll agree to eat dinner with the family daily without interruptions. Set some bounds, but understand that being successful in academia is both consuming and his passion. Let him know there's always a way out if he gets too stressed, but do try to support him in his decisions on what he wants to do with his life.

Miss Growing Green

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2017, 03:35:11 PM »
Quote
I would say it would be anti-mustachian if you weren't FI and he didn't want to keep working. In that situation hiring help is forcing you to work longer than necessary. However in this case you are FI and your husband wants to do his job because he enjoys it and this happens to lead to more income that you need, but you want more time together. In this case using the excess funds to buy more time together when he isn't working though not optimal is probably the best option you have.

Also you say we, but given that you are FI and your husband wants to keep working it sounds more like it is really I want this lifestyle.

Of course we don't know the whole situation. I mean it is possible your husband simply doesn't trust you are actually FI in which case you might need to prove it by living off your investments/properties for a year first. However if despite complaining his job truly makes him satisfied when all is said and done then you making him quite will only lead to resentment on his part.

I would be digging very deep if the dream you talk about is your husbands dream, because if it isn't you are effectively asking your husband to give up his dream for the sake of yours which isn't fair.

Fair enough about it being anti-mustachian... that makes sense and thanks for the clarification.

He has said before that he doesn't trust that we are FI... he keeps "raising the bar" when I ask him what his comfort level for FI would be, when it is achieved it gets raised again.

You're right, it isn't fair for me to ask him to give up his dream.  But in the same respect, by not honoring the FI plan to retire early, isn't he effectively forcing me to give up my dream?  I'm stuck in suburbia while my husbands works.  We are FI!  ... I want to go to Canada for summer and then to Mexico for the winter and show my children about the wonderful world we live in.  I want the kids to see Dad as much as they see me.  Being FI and trying to retire but feeling stuck in suburbia is not a fun place to be. I feel like we worked so hard to be able to travel anywhere in the world and do anything and we're just the same as anyone who's trapped in a 9-5 desk job.

prognastat

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2017, 04:06:26 PM »
His dream does not require you to either work or not work. Your dream is requiring him to not work when he wants to. It isn't equivalent. Not saying it doesn't suck, but people don't always have the same dreams and priorities.

You need to find out if he keeps raising the bar because he originally only argued for raising the bar to extend living his dream or truly because he has doubts. If it is the latter you need to bring him numbers that prove your investments have returned more than you have spent in the last x months/years.

He might not feel like he is trapped if he feels fulfilled by what he does in the end of it all.

historienne

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2017, 06:45:15 PM »
So, I think I understand your situation pretty well.  I have a six month old and a 3 year-old, and I'm in my first year of a tenure-track job (although I had a previous TT job before this one). 

I plan to work until they kick me out of my office.  I enjoy my work, and I don't think that I would be happier not to have my job, even if I had all the money in the world.  Are there parts of my job that I don't enjoy?  Yes. Would I like a little more free time and a little less pressure?  Definitely.  But do I want to quit my job and spend all week with my kids?  Not really - I love them like crazy, but I am a better parent because my kids spend at least 40 hours a week apart from me.  If my husband were a SAHD and demanded that I join him, I would not only refuse, I would find it an incredibly controlling demand.

I think you will have more luck if you do not try to get your husband to quit - it does not sound to me like he wants to, and despite your references to a past agreement, I don't think it's reasonable for you to demand that he do that.  Instead, talk to him about how to achieve work/life balance in academia.  The nice thing about being FI is that you won't be totally screwed if he doesn't get tenure, so he can afford not to let the quest for tenure structure everything in his life for the next six years.  See if this article resonates with him: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/the-awesomest-7-year-postdoc-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-tenure-track-faculty-life/

Also talk about how to make his career work for *you.*  I don't know his field, but can he structure his research so that he gets some travel opportunities that you all can take advantage of?  Maybe he should be going back on the job market in a year or two so that y'all can move to a city you like more, if you are not happy in your current area.  Or maybe he should be thinking about a less research-intensive position. 

There's a lot that you can negotiate short of expecting your partner to quit his job. 

Genevieve

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2017, 07:49:36 PM »
If you want to travel, how can you travel *and* have him stay in academia? My husband got invited for a year in Switzerland once. (We turned it down because I did not want to be a stay at home spouse.)

What can you do to fill your days with things you love, in part paid for by his unnecessary income, where he still gets to do the job he loves too?

Think about how you can have your happiness AND his happiness by staying in academia.

As far as their dad being around full-time, that's not really something within your control. You can show him that you are FI & you can show him the benefits of being a full-time dad, but if he doesn't want it, then you can't make him want it. You'll probably have to let that part go.

Noodle

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2017, 09:09:44 PM »
I think you are basing really big decisions on your current situation, which is temporary.

Right now you have a toddler and a small baby (and did you move for the job?) Right now your husband is in his first year of being a professor. I have quite a few friends who are professors, and they say the first couple years are a special kind of hell, while you're building your repertoire of lectures, figuring out university politics and culture, learning how to deal with students who are in many cases the large-size version of your toddler. Once you've taught a course a few times, it really does get much more efficient. While his job may always be demanding, I wouldn't make your estimate of what your family life is going to be like for the next eighteen years on what's going on right now. And there are plenty of professors who parlay their tenure and seniority into the ability to do exactly what they want, when they want.

You have the right to be honest about how difficult your life is right now and your unhappiness and ask him to be your equal partner in a solution. Telling him what the solution needs to be and trying to talk him into it isn't likely to lead to marital harmony, especially when it involves giving up a career that he loves, he has worked years for, and that he really cannot go back to if he changes his mind.

canyonrider

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2017, 09:44:45 PM »
FWIW: My kids are now ages 4 and 6. The period when they were the around the ages of your kids was undoubtedly the most challenging time in our marriage. My wife and I were both working full-time at demanding jobs, the younger one wasn't sleeping well, the older one still needed a lot of attention and supervision, and new baby exhaustion clouded everything--our work, relationship, and overall quality of life. My wife really struggled with depression and similar feelings of hopelessness ("this is our life and it sucks!") that didn't really kick until the baby was 5-6 months old. I'm not saying your situation is identical, but go easy on yourself and your husband. You are in the thick of it. 

The good news is that the kids get easier as they get older and you will have ample opportunity to sort out what works for you and your husband. You will also be able to get out and do more with them, including travel, with or without your husband coming along. You are in the enviable position of already being FI plus your spouse's salary still coming in. The flexibility this gives you will not go away.

In the meantime I agree with others that the best things you can do are communicate with your husband about how you are feeling, bump up the childcare help at least a few hours a week, hire someone to deal with the rentals/finances, and get as much sleep as possible. This is not the time to hold fast to some kind of Mustachian dogma and resist hiring help when doing so is causing you stress and exhaustion.

« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 09:53:07 PM by canyonrider »

firelight

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2017, 11:10:16 PM »
I think I understand a bit of what you are going through. We are a soon to be two kids family with two people in high paying jobs and we are FI. We can afford to quit and travel the world. And we love our kids to death. However, we also love our jobs. I chose to work a relaxed schedule so I can spend more time with kids since I want to enjoy them now, my husband works super hard because he likes the challenge and spends quality time with kids, though not the same in quantity as me. I'm fine with it since it's different strokes for different people.

As you have the right to enjoy your kids as much as you want and in the way you want, I think your husband has an equal right to enjoy them as he sees fit. Just because someone is FI doesn't mean they have to quit their jobs if they love it. FI is more a way to do what you want instead of having to do something.

Since you already have hired help that you feel is sufficient, I think you really need to discuss in an open and non confrontational manner about what you think is your ideal life and what your husband's is. Try to take the middle ground for both and move towards it. Can he travel for work and you and kids tag along to see the world? Can he take a semester off to be home with you? Lots of options, but you both need to acknowledge the other and meet in the middle.

Sydneystache

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2017, 11:26:30 PM »
  I want to go to Canada for summer and then to Mexico for the winter and show my children about the wonderful world we live in.  I want the kids to see Dad as much as they see me.  Being FI and trying to retire but feeling stuck in suburbia is not a fun place to be. I feel like we worked so hard to be able to travel anywhere in the world and do anything and we're just the same as anyone who's trapped in a 9-5 desk job.

Why don't you go to Canada and Mexico with the kids - without him? Can you travel independently without him? If he's a lateral thinker he will find a visiting position at a university in Canada or Mexico to join you guys. Since your kids are under 5, the time is now to travel before they hit school. If he won't join you, or keeps moving the goalposts everytime, you may need to realise he enjoys and values his profession (more than family) and he won't give it up that easily, or won't ever. That will be a question that only you can answer - can you be a SAHM for the next 20 years? I can understand the frustration being in suburbia when the world is your oyster.

He may need to be less egostistical about his profession given how long it took him to obtain it and start thinking about how long he's going to be in it if he is to please you too. I am sure he enjoys the independence and the intellectual stimulation of colleagues and students vs his family life where he still has to do domestic duties.

caracarn

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2017, 01:53:21 PM »
Fair enough about it being anti-mustachian... that makes sense and thanks for the clarification.

He has said before that he doesn't trust that we are FI... he keeps "raising the bar" when I ask him what his comfort level for FI would be, when it is achieved it gets raised again.

You're right, it isn't fair for me to ask him to give up his dream.  But in the same respect, by not honoring the FI plan to retire early, isn't he effectively forcing me to give up my dream?  I'm stuck in suburbia while my husbands works.  We are FI!  ... I want to go to Canada for summer and then to Mexico for the winter and show my children about the wonderful world we live in.  I want the kids to see Dad as much as they see me.  Being FI and trying to retire but feeling stuck in suburbia is not a fun place to be. I feel like we worked so hard to be able to travel anywhere in the world and do anything and we're just the same as anyone who's trapped in a 9-5 desk job.

Answering an earlier question, yes I've had young kids.  I have three of my own and when I got remarried added three more.  By the time I got remarried kids over all in school, so not toddlers any longer but yes, I've raised three so I get the demands on time and tiredness etc.

You have hit the crux of the matter here.  I'm just going to be direct not to be blunt and mean, but to cut to the chase of what I see.  It appears, from what you have shared, that you both are in possession of different dreams.  It sucks to realize that when you are married to someone, especially since you shared earlier that it seemed you both had the same dream at one point, or so you thought.  You life is certainly more than the few paragraphs you've posted here, but all I have to respond to is what you've shared.  I tend to feel things only really get solved in a marriage when hard communication takes place, and that's what I'd recommend here.

Ask your husband to have a pointed, HONEST and deep conversation about what you each really want going forward.  Learn what his dream is.  If you find he is locked in to the work and shows no signs of wanting to walk away in the next five or ten years, then you need to decide if it is worthwhile to go into your dream in the conversation.  It sounds like he's well aware of it.  You just need to figure out if you are even in the same book, let alone the same page.  Does he even really want to RE?  Moving the bar could be his passive aggressive way of not telling you but that he wants to work until 65, but he just handles it by moving the bar.  Once you know, then you can begin to have further conversations on how what each of your dreams are means for your relationship.  These can be hard conversations, but your alternative is continuing in this limbo state of thinking the next time you hit the bar will be it,.... and then it's not.  Repeating the cycle takes a toll on a relationship and only honest communication gets couples through these times.  Otherwise you slowly build up resentments and then it is harder and harder to find your way back to each other.  Not being honest just puts up a smoke screen of things you react to that are not real, so I'm hoping you will each be totally honest with each other, even if it means expressing something the other might not want to hear.  As long as everyone stays respectful this tends to help.

I wish you the best in this process and hope some of this helps.  You've clearly shared your hearts longing here, and I'm sure you've done that with your husband as well.  For some reason he's not responding and the sooner you get things out in the open, the sooner you can start the conversations that get you to understand what your future will be like.  Will you be in suburbia while your husband goes to his job?  Will you know that you now have a ten year plan, and then it will happen?  Will it be something else?  I really believe you need to reconcile these competing dreams and until you do that you'll be unhappy.

Cassie

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2017, 02:27:26 PM »
My kids are adults but I had 3 in 7 years. My DH worked 2 jobs and did all the car/home maintenance, chores, etc so I was home alot with the kids by myself. We did not have the $ to hire babysitters, house cleaning, etc so i did it all. By the time my youngest was 5 and in school f.t. it was much easier. I am sorry you have different dreams but he has worked hard to get his profession going and people do change their minds or think they want one thing but when it is a reality they don't want it. I started college and my career much later then others and after all the years I spent in college I would have never walked away after only working for 1 year. Even at age 62 I teach 1 online college class each semester because I love it.  I think that you need to accept your reality for now, do what you can to make yourself happy and do some traveling with the kids alone or with him on his vacation time. If you forced him to retire he would resent you and it would ruin your marriage.

Juslookin

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2017, 03:00:12 PM »

It's difficult to explain... do any of you responding have young kids, or have you ever had young kids?  They take A LOT of work.  I mean, almost every parent will tell you how exhausted they are if they have young ones.  I just see how much easier and more fun our lives would be if we had more time for things.  My husband never exercises, fishes, or plays sports anymore (all huge passions of his).  We can't afford to travel as much as we want, not because of money, but because work would suffer.  We don't have any time for friends, or each other.  By the time kids get to bed, we either both have to work (I work about 5-10 hours/week on the rentals/finances, but can only do that when kids are asleep) or we are too tired to do anything other than watch TV or something equally mindless.

I just wanted to jump in and say that I agree with the others.  Your husband seems to be happy at his place in life, he may even be stressed while doing it, but that doesn't mean he isn't happy doing it.  I would recommend that the two of you sit down for a really long discussion and try to figure out how you can both be happy together at your place in life.

And the real reason I wanted to post is because of your comments above about how little ones are so exhausting.  I hate to break it to you, but I think big ones are even MORE exhausting.  True, your not chasing them around or wiping noses, but you are staying up late to enforce curfews, driving them everywhere, teaching them to drive, staying up worried when they drive,  and having power struggles as they decide they have their own opinions in life are plenty exhausting.  While its tiring to be a mom to little ones, (and yes, I was one) just wait until they're bigger. :)  Mine are 16 and 19 and we are still plenty tired by the end of the day.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 03:02:11 PM by Juslookin »

caracarn

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2017, 02:43:49 PM »
And the real reason I wanted to post is because of your comments above about how little ones are so exhausting.  I hate to break it to you, but I think big ones are even MORE exhausting.  True, your not chasing them around or wiping noses, but you are staying up late to enforce curfews, driving them everywhere, teaching them to drive, staying up worried when they drive,  and having power struggles as they decide they have their own opinions in life are plenty exhausting.  While its tiring to be a mom to little ones, (and yes, I was one) just wait until they're bigger. :)  Mine are 16 and 19 and we are still plenty tired by the end of the day.

Oh my goodness.  I'm not physically tired with my kids now being older (between the 6 they are 19-12), but I'd agree mentally exhausted beyond imagining.  The drama, the actual problems pale to the wonderfulness when they thought you were the coolest people in the whole world and they had no ability to do anything significant when they disagreed with you.  This is a money forum and not a psychology forum so I'll leave it at that.

farmerj

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2017, 03:27:59 PM »
"I was growing our rental property business and we're at a place now that the rental business is enough to support our current lifestyle and grow by an additional 20% each year "

Are you still in the rental property business? How much time and stress is that adding? Handling two very young children is pretty rough even without a side job. (And really, it DOES get better. My six year old dresses himself and gets his own breakfast. That extra 15 minutes of snooze is GOLDEN.)

Since it basically looks like your husband is not interested in early retirement, would you be willing to sell them off and switch to  index funds; ie you might be the one to "retire".


pbkmaine

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2017, 03:45:18 PM »
Once your husband gets settled in his job, the academic life can be ideal for a flexible lifestyle. There are semester breaks, summer research opportunities, and sabbaticals. Why not do some dreaming together about the best way to use those as a family?

Retire-Canada

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2017, 07:28:52 PM »
You're right, it isn't fair for me to ask him to give up his dream.  But in the same respect, by not honoring the FI plan to retire early, isn't he effectively forcing me to give up my dream?  I'm stuck in suburbia while my husbands works.  We are FI!  ... I want to go to Canada for summer and then to Mexico for the winter and show my children about the wonderful world we live in.  I want the kids to see Dad as much as they see me.  Being FI and trying to retire but feeling stuck in suburbia is not a fun place to be. I feel like we worked so hard to be able to travel anywhere in the world and do anything and we're just the same as anyone who's trapped in a 9-5 desk job.

You can do all of that ^^^ if you are FI except for them spending as much time with him. What about packing up for some epic trips to Canada and Mexico with the kids. At least you get the fuck out of suburbia. A couple months in each place will help your mental health and then you are still home for 8 months of the year where he can be involved when he has time after work.

My GF has to work ~7yrs more than I do to FIRE due to a pension and separate financial plans. I don't plan on staying at home doing a 9-5 M-F life waiting for her to be free. I plan to get on with my FIRE and make sure that when she has time to do something I'll be available, but I plan on heading to Baja for 2 months+ a winter and other long road trips. It's not ideal, but you have to work with what you have.

You can keep offering him FIRE, but it sounds like he wants to work for another 20yrs. You can't force him to quit, but you can get on with your life as best as possible given the situation.

Dee18

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2017, 07:31:59 PM »
As others have suggested, focus on what you can control.  You say you are tired and stressed.  You could:
Have someone else handle your rentals,
Sell the rentals,
Hire more help...would you really feel like you were not the primary parent if you had childcare every afternoon 3-6?  You could probably find a responsible college student to be an afternoon nanny,
Plan an occasional week away where you like.  I know traveling alone with your kids isn't your first choice, but it could be a great second choice.   I was a single parent and found traveling to be great fun, as long as it wasn't by car...although I didn't do it with a child younger than 9 months.

What you have tried do do and not succeeded at: making your husband want to give up his newly acquired tenure track job after working toward it for years.

If I were you, I would find it really difficult if his absences in the evening were unpredictable.  If you feel that way, perhaps you could agree on a schedule. And I am sure I would be terribly disappointed that my expectations about ER were not being met.  But it sounds like you have a husband and two healthy kids that you love and plenty of money...and that's pretty great.

Best of luck!



Sydneystache

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2017, 07:58:02 PM »
You can do all of that ^^^ if you are FI except for them spending as much time with him. What about packing up for some epic trips to Canada and Mexico with the kids. At least you get the fuck out of suburbia. A couple months in each place will help your mental health and then you are still home for 8 months of the year where he can be involved when he has time after work.

Agreed 100x and that's where FU money gives you that independence when your partner is not ready.

This isn't mustachian but a couple of years ago I was pretty stressed at work and bought a weekender a couple of hours away from Sydney (I am typing this at said place - it's raining so am indoors). This weekender has saved my sanity so many times and it gives me some time away from hubby. He works shifts and he's a grumpy bastard when he comes home from work. I prefer being away from Sydney on weekends as there's no point in us hanging around especially when he's just done a 14 hour shift at work and all he wants to do is bitch and groan.

When he's free on weekends like this weekend we just leave Friday night, return Sunday arvo. He potters in his shed, or we go for bike rides or walk on the beach. We wanted to catch the last of the snorkelling this weekend before the weather turned but it's crap weather atm.

So, you have plenty of options. You just have to reframe your situation - and as @Retire-Canada said "get the fuck out of suburbia". 😁😁😁

human

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2017, 08:07:26 PM »
This is the exact plot to revolutionary road. You both started the relationship with the same dream but he has unfortunately left that behind.

The problem is splitting may require that you go back to work for a while, you may as well start now rather than drag this on forever.

Hargrove

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2017, 09:04:08 PM »
You have hit the crux of the matter here.  I'm just going to be direct not to be blunt and mean, but to cut to the chase of what I see.  It appears, from what you have shared, that you both are in possession of different dreams.

Well, sort of.

OP, you were never planning a full commitment to FIRE. PhDs in education pay little for a ton of commitment. It was always a terrible FIRE choice. You managed to convince yourself, or yourselves, it was somehow in line with FIRE plans. In actuality, your SO just spent much of your life together learning to do a thing that you want him to quit just when he got it. It would be hard to be in his position - he may feel that his achievements and his role in your couple will not just be compromised but erased, proven retroactively irrelevant and even detrimental, given costs and opportunity losses. If he can come to terms with that and laugh it off, that would be very remarkable. If not, it shouldn't surprize you, and I hope you don't take it as a vote of no confidence in you, either. He chose a role, he thought with your blessing, and attained the role in a typical timetable, only to feel that his first "life's work" is of literally no value to you now.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2017, 09:07:03 PM by Hargrove »

Retire-Canada

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2017, 07:09:24 AM »
OP, you were never planning a full commitment to FIRE. PhDs in education pay little for a ton of commitment. It was always a terrible FIRE choice.

Yet they are FI without the need for the education job so I would say that their path has not proven to be a terrible choice for FIRE at all.

Nothing would prevent her husband from using his education to do something rewarding that is compatible with less than FT work and could be done remotely. She's not saying stop working 100%. She's saying you don't need to work for money so prioritize you wife and kids over work. That seems pretty reasonable.

Axecleaver

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2017, 07:52:09 AM »
The option I haven't seen discussed here yet, is that you go back to work.

You've given up so much of your academic dreams to raise your family, and maybe being at home with two toddlers isn't what you expected. Lots of SAHP's find that they can't wait to get back to work, because it's so much more relaxing than spending all day with young children. There's resentment and guilt a plenty to go around in that scenario!

Under-5 is the hardest time, by far. What everyone else said - it gets easier - was absolutely our experience, too. Mrs Axe going back to work when Little Axe turned 2 made a huge difference in her self esteem, our quality of time together, and our relationship. It's not about the money, it's about reclaiming your raison d'etre.

Hargrove

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2017, 08:13:07 AM »

Yet they are FI without the need for the education job so I would say that their path has not proven to be a terrible choice for FIRE at all.

Buying a lotto ticket is a poor path to FIRE, which doesn't change because someone did it.

The job he worked hard to get has molded him around a long career that only made sense if they did not FIRE.

Quote
Nothing would prevent her husband from using his education to do something rewarding that is compatible with less than FT work and could be done remotely. She's not saying stop working 100%. She's saying you don't need to work for money so prioritize you wife and kids over work. That seems pretty reasonable.

That's kind of a "let him eat cake" offer.

I'm saying it isn't an "anything else is rewarding too" scenario, because the job was never a short walk. You don't invest the time, money, and energy into getting a PhD to do 2-year teaching assistant work. It is trickier than "oh just do something else" because it sounds like it's part of his identity. He's caught in the track, prestige, and responsibility of teaching in addition to the existential problem of "Who am I if I just spent all this time acquiring these options to simply discard them?" It does not sound like he assumes that one can't be a good father and a teacher, and he is probably confused if he now feels that's what's being said.

I think understanding this is the only way to figure out how to compromise. A conversation about how it would be reasonable for him to simply walk away won't help him think you sympathize with the situation he's in. Ask him how he feels. Reflect on it. Understand it's not how much money you have that's stopping him, because if it were, he would have already stopped. Telling him instead that he's among your priorities, and you understand that where you were headed was not so simple for him. See if you can "get" what holds him back. Tell him you'd like the goal to be to figure out together how you can preserve this person he loves being while also increasing your time together.

Telling him instead it's eminently reasonable for him to quit is, again, not working, because it doesn't sound like it's about the money for him.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2017, 08:26:58 AM by Hargrove »

pbkmaine

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2017, 08:40:26 AM »
I spent a lot of time working with colleges and universities. The committees I interacted with had academics as well as administrators. One of the things that became clear to me was how much many academics (particularly those with tenure) LOVE their jobs. Many chose a field because they were intensely interested in it. They have a community. They feel they are doing a positive social good by teaching. These are all conditions that lead to happiness.

Colleges and universities have a hard time getting people to retire, ever. I am 60. My professors from undergrad and grad school are just going emeritus now, in their 80s and 90s. Though emeritus, they are still producing work. This is a profession that can last a lifetime.

Retire-Canada

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2017, 08:45:46 AM »
Buying a lotto ticket is a poor path to FIRE, which doesn't change because someone did it.

That's ridiculous they worked hard and used the limited money they had to buy real estate until they had sufficient rental properties to be FI. That's not a gamble. That's being focused on your goal.


Hargrove

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2017, 09:08:03 AM »
Buying a lotto ticket is a poor path to FIRE, which doesn't change because someone did it.

That's ridiculous they worked hard and used the limited money they had to buy real estate until they had sufficient rental properties to be FI. That's not a gamble. That's being focused on your goal.

Why are you picking out half the context of what I post to find it objectionable? I didn't say they bought a lotto ticket. They obviously worked hard and it's awesome they can FIRE. And, that doesn't prove their efforts were a clear-cut FIRE-prioritizing plan. A PhD in a relatively low-paying career, and a post-doc for the same commonly life-long, time-consuming, stressful profession, is not in the top 30 "most FIRE" plans.

It's awesome that they can FIRE. They are obviously in the "worked hard to get there" camp. No one said otherwise. FIRE with an education-related PhD is, however, a special kind of hard-mode.

Retire-Canada

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2017, 09:15:23 AM »
It's awesome that they can FIRE. They are obviously in the "worked hard to get there" camp. No one said otherwise. FIRE with an education-related PhD is, however, a special kind of hard-mode.

Clearly it's not. Getting rental properties together is not some lucky turn of events. And given the age they hit FI it wasn't "a special kind of hard mode".

There are people on this forum with all sorts of careers and lots of them are not the most optimized for hitting FIRE as fast as possible, but that doesn't suggest they don't want to FIRE. People just have a variety of interests aside from FIRE.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2017, 09:20:39 AM by Retire-Canada »

Hargrove

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2017, 09:24:58 AM »
It's awesome that they can FIRE. They are obviously in the "worked hard to get there" camp. No one said otherwise. FIRE with an education-related PhD is, however, a special kind of hard-mode.

Clearly it's not.

I lack your clarity.

Getting rental properties together is not some lucky turn of events.

It certainly isn't. OP did a great job prioritizing, as she explains, getting to FIRE. Unfortunately, this has nothing to do with the PhD side of the plan.

And given the age they hit FI it wasn't "a special kind of hard mode".

Unfortunately, FI and FIRE are different, and her frustration is that she has only hit FI. She's literally posting asking for advice about an unusual problem she's facing reaching FIRE.

I don't want to make another three posts parsing sentences, so you can pm me if you really want to keep talking about this, but I'm going to keep from commenting until the OP gives an update at this point. You are absolutely right that many people fire with different plans to get there.

spokey doke

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2017, 08:22:44 AM »
just last August finally landed a permanent job as faculty at a university. 

While there is likely some truth to your point about "the next thing", and how we (esp. academics) can set up a series of "when I X, THEN, things will be great"...it seems like you are jumping the gun a bit, as the first year or two in a tenure track job is especially time consuming and stressful.  While that MAY not change much, it certainly can...just take how much work it is the get up to speed and comfortable teaching a new course (let alone 2, 3, or 4 of them at once--this alone his HUGE).  You are also the new kid on the block and likely want to prove that you are a reliable team player, a productive researcher, etc., and all of that is with new duties that take extra time to do well (serve on the curriculum committee? I better learn more about the curriculum and how it is gets determined here...).

Things can get way, way better, and even if you always feel pressure, the first few years are especially crushing...
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 08:24:38 AM by spokey doke »

FrugalFan

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2017, 09:50:03 AM »
I think I can provide a bit of insight as well as our situations are remarkably similar. My husband and I are both academics in a similar field to your DH and we have young kids just a bit older than yours. We both love our jobs, but DH loves it more and would probably keep doing it post FI, whereas I would gladly spend more time with the kids and explore other pursuits. One tricky thing about our jobs is that we can't just quit or scale back for a few years while the kids are young and hope to get a similar job once they start school, and this is my one big regret. A tenure track position is incredibly hard to come by and I'm pretty certain you would kiss your career goodbye if you did that, as no one would want to take the risk of hiring you in the future if you changed your mind, and you would very likely be no longer competitive anyway, as there is always a constantly-renewed talented pool of young graduates waiting in the wings. One difference in our situation is that we had kids post-tenure, so there was definitely less pressure there.

Regarding current and future workload for your DH. As the previous posters have pointed out, there is a huge difference in the beginning, not necessarily pre- and post-tenure, but when you are first starting out just the enormous amount of time and energy required to set up your lab, recruit students, prepare your first courses, participate in administrative duties, apply for grants, etc. I easily spend about 10X the amount of time preparing a course for the first time compared to teaching it again in the future. As for pre- and post-tenure, I don't think there is as big of a difference in workload, but there is definitely a psychological weight lifted post tenure that makes work more enjoyable and less stressful.

Regarding your current situation with the kids. As I mentioned above, the timing is unfortunate as you are in the thick of it now with the kids at that age and your DH can't spend as much time helping you. When he will likely have more time in the future, they will probably be in school. I will say that it does get easier every day as they get a bit older. I know you want to spend all this time with your kids and you don't want to hire someone else to look after them, but I would urge you to ask yourself if it really makes you happy. There is no shame in wanting a bit of time to yourself when your kids are that young, and they are already so lucky to spend all this time with you, a few hours away from you won't hurt them, and for your older one, some time to socialize with other kids would probably be really beneficial. I get the impression that you don't think you are your best self with them due to understandably being exhausted, and I would suggest that a bit more childcare could make your life healthier and happier. Likewise with outsourcing things that you find exhausting or draining if you are FI.

Regarding DH's desire to keep working. Clearly your DH is very talented if he was able to obtain a tenure-track faculty position. If he loves his job, despite the stress, I think it is important that you both work together to let him give it a real shot. Your DH worked very hard to get where he is and deserves a chance to make a go of it if he wants to. And as I mentioned above, he probably feels this is his one shot at a tenure track position and he doesn't want to give it up so easily. He is in a unique situation where being FI could relieve some of the stress associated with trying to achieve tenure. I sense from your post that if you push him the outcome would not be good, and I think you need to try to work at avoiding feeling resentment as well.

All is not lost though. Academic jobs are incredibly flexible, and people have been understanding of how different our lives are now that we have young kids (we used to work ALL THE TIME). These are some of the things we have done since having kids to try to obtain better work/life balance. We pretty much avoid going to any non-mandatory event in the evening or weekend. We both took parental leave (would recommend this for your DH - they stop the clock on tenure when you take leave). We consider any break at the university to be family time and often travel away from home during those times. We do field work at locations that are good for kids and do that 1-2 months per year. We travel to conferences together and often stay an extra week or two as a family vacation. We go on international sabbaticals together in family friendly places. We adjust our schedules so that we can be around more for the kids by working after they go to bed in the evenings and when they nap on weekends. I think your DH could easily do all those things and you would get lots of travel in if that is what you like. I think you could travel on your own as well, as others have mentioned, but personally I would not want to be away from DH for very long, probably only a week or so at a time, unless visiting grandparents or traveling with grandparents so that I would have a bit of help.

I would highly recommend that you and DH go out to a nice restaurant or coffee shop without the kids and have a long conversation about where you see yourselves in 2 years, 5 years, 10 years. DH and I have started doing this and it has been very helpful to have long uninterrupted conversations in a relaxing setting. We usually do it at lunch so we are not too tired. Even though our goals are different, they are compatible and we can make them work. I think you could be in that situation as well. If you are willing to accept that DH should give his position a real shot, maybe talk to him about how he could try to minimize weekend and evening engagements and travelling by himself for a couple of years until the kids are older and it is less of a burden on you, and talk to him about how to leverage his position to get a life you are both excited about, full of family time and travel and adventure as well as his work. If you are supportive, you can both compromise and meet in the middle.

Iplawyer

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2017, 10:32:03 AM »
I wasn't sure if this was the best forum for my question, so apologies if not.  I'll try to keep this as succinct as possible without losing too many details.  I'm looking for advice for how to discuss this topic with my husband... it always seems to end in an argument or at least a disagreement.
We've been "mustachians" for about a decade now (we're in our early/mid 30s).  We've also been together about 10 years.  We are married, have a 2.5 year old and a 4 month old.  We met in grad school (ecology), after our Master's degrees I gave up career pursuit in order to focus on earning money and preparing for our eventual family.  Husband went on to get PhD, then did a 3-year postdoc, and just last August finally landed a permanent job as faculty at a university.  He *loves* his work.  It is his passion, but so are our kids.  During the time hubby was schooling / earning, I was growing our rental property business and we're at a place now that the rental business is enough to support our current lifestyle and grow by an additional 20% each year (so basically my husband's salary isn't "needed").

Anyway, all of this back story leads me to the point: I don't like our life.  We know we aren't having any more children, and I'm happy with that decision.  What I'm unhappy with is the feeling that we are always tired, stressed, extremely busy, and never have ANY time for ourselves or each other.  I know most Americans feel that way, especially if you have little ones, but we have the financial choice to be two stay at home parents if we want to. I want my husband to quit his job, or dial it WAYYY back, at least until the kids start school (or one kid starts school even). 
My husband's side of things is that he wants to "work hard" now so he can get tenure, at which point he thinks he will be able to relax more in his career.  I feel like there's "the next thing" mentality going on. "Once I get my PhD... after I get this post doc finished... after I get accepted for a permanent position", the goal on the horizon is always going to be there.  This isn't necessarily a bad thing if you're aware of it, but if you are deluding yourself into thinking a break is around the corner, you might wake up one day at 65 and realize you worked yourself to the bone and never took that break.  He is in a high-powered career with a lot of pressure and peer pressure.  His colleagues don't have young kids and don't understand why he doesn't want to go to evening/weekend engagements outside of work.
I am saddened because I know this is our last baby, and I don't want to miss this precious time with our kids before school, when we are their whole world and every minute is time they want to spend with us.  Our relationship and personal time are also suffering because there is just too little time to go around.
Has anyone been through a similar scenario?  Any words of advice, strategies for successfully convincing my husband of this?  I am worried he will look back and regret not spending more time with the kids when they were young.  I am worried I will look back and resent him for not being there more, because while I get to be here with the kids, I am not my best self (due to being stressed, tired, etc. from dealing with our too complicated life).
Help fellow Mustachians!

Are you managing the properties?  Otherwise, why is your life so stressful?  Millions and Millions of people make this work without being as stressed as you seem to be.  And it is selfish of you to want him to quit. 

Suggestions to lessen your stress because you have the money because he is working:

Turn the properties over to a property management service until your husband is ready to retire or until the kids are in school.
Hire a weekly or twice weekly cleaning person to clean, do laundry, etc.
Pick up good pre-made food frequently (Whole Foods has great selections).
Definitely find somebody to watch the children either Friday or Saturday night each week so that you two can go on a date night alone.

In other words - use that money you don't need to eliminate stress.  And you'll both be happier for it.  Maybe you can even find a halftime housekeeper/nanny that comes every day for 3-4 hours to take care of the mundane stuff that takes up your time and energy. And they can spend an hour watching the children while you do whatever it is you need to do for yourself - go for  a run, get nails done, hair done, massage, whatever. 

And you definitely need to find somebody you trust with the children so that you two can spend time alone and so that you can have some time take care of yourself.

Now - none of this is Mustacian - but I think what is important right now is that you and he balance your needs appropriately - and this, although spendy, will do that. 

I also might add that most faculty members have great and flexible schedules after working a couple of years.

Iplawyer

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2017, 10:54:22 AM »
Alright,
Appreciate the input so far.  I don't mean this to sound rude, but isn't it kind of "anti-mustachian" to make yourself a wage-slave so you can hire help?
We already have a bi-weekly housekeeper and a landscaping service. We regularly eat out to save time.  We also have a nanny that comes 4 hrs/week to help with the kids (I don't really want more than that because *I* want to be the one spending time with my kids)
I guess my point is- we worked so hard to get financially free, always with the goal of financial freedom in mind, and now we can't enjoy a truly free lifestyle. 
My husband loves his work, but he brings it home, works night when we are all asleep, and regularly has evening engagements as well as work travel.  He says himself he is tired and stressed, but yet he doesn't want to quit (yet anyway).
MayDay- Why is quitting the job a pipe dream?  Isn't this what MMM always talks about- walking away from a high powered career once you've "made it"?

We don't have a lot of "chores" in our lives outside of just raising the kids.  I've already (in my opinion) streamlined the chores and outsourced as much as possible.  We live in a very small house and are minimalists.

It's difficult to explain... do any of you responding have young kids, or have you ever had young kids?  They take A LOT of work.  I mean, almost every parent will tell you how exhausted they are if they have young ones.  I just see how much easier and more fun our lives would be if we had more time for things.  My husband never exercises, fishes, or plays sports anymore (all huge passions of his).  We can't afford to travel as much as we want, not because of money, but because work would suffer.  We don't have any time for friends, or each other.  By the time kids get to bed, we either both have to work (I work about 5-10 hours/week on the rentals/finances, but can only do that when kids are asleep) or we are too tired to do anything other than watch TV or something equally mindless.

Frankly - Yes - had two kids 2 years apart - And I don't get your level of stress based on what you've said. You do know that there has never been a time before when most women did not have a lot to do in addition to managing children?   You need to outsource the property management and a small amount of daily day care for the children so that you can go take care of yourself.  Kids need to socialize with others - it is no problem to leave them an hour or two a day with somebody else - really.  And you need to arrange time with him alone and dates.  I'm sorry - but he's worked very hard to get to where he is - and he wants to be there.  If you want to merge your two dreams you are likely the one that will have to make it work. A very wise relative told me once that at least one person in the marriage needed to be devoted to taking care of the marriage and family at all time.  She said that person might be the wife at one point  and the husband at another point - but without such a person the marriage would likely fail.  I've followed this advice and found she was right.  It seems like you are that person.

So, in short, OUTSOURCE everything possible, including the property management.  You are stealing time from your relationship with your husband by trying to continue to do that. 

And you need to talk to a counselor.  Maybe you need couples counseling.  Your dreams and desires are no longer aligned.  Typically this means you need to get re-aligned somehow or your marriage isn't going to work.  This happens in marriages and it just takes some effort to work it out.  I wish you the best, really.




clairebonk

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2017, 11:32:00 AM »
OP, very impressive working so hard to get to possible FIRE! Very impressed by rental income!

OP, I am in a similar situation! Except I am a few years from FIRE. I meant with the stay-at-home mom misery while the husband works all the time dilemma. My husband also switched gears from being a SAHD and wanting to retire immediately to working constantly. He is gaining prestige at his company and I'm afraid that is way more addictive than anything I can provide. He has the perfect life: a beautiful wife and 2 sweet children and homemade meals. I have several advanced degrees and spend my days doing laundry and cleaning the floors (we can't afford help). My kids are 1 & 4 and everyone says it gets easier. I am so tired all the time, my stress and health and marriage are taking its toll. I married him so I could spend time with him, not so I could be his servant.

Should I go back to work? We live in an expensive area and my salary would take a huge hit with childcare. Plus I'd still have to do ALL the cooking and cleaning (unless we hired a nanny, but she couldn't do everything), and when would I have time to exercise or see my friends? I don't want a stranger raising my kids. I want to teach them family traditions and all that. So does my husband. I get a babysitter every now and again, that is different than a teacher/nanny spending 45+ hours/week with my kids. I've never found a job/career that I love so much that I would want to be tired, stressed, fat, and missing my kids.

I am not made to be a SAHM. Our society of nuclear families is not made to be helpful for women. EVERY SINGLE sahm I talk to, when you dive into those important conversations, feels the same way. It is hard. We are tired. Our husbands are happy.

This is what I would do if I have the money: I would hire a manny. I would hire a young man who could watch my kids and take them hiking and fix a leaky roof and take the car in for new tires and do laundry. Essentially, replace my husband. Because hiring a nanny is like hiring a replacement mom. But a manny is hiring a replacement dad. My husband would quit his job immediately if he saw another man having all the fun that he's missing out on with his kids, and if I was appreciative of another man for helping me with chores.

Please PM me and keep in touch and let me know what little things you find that work, both short and long term. Best of luck, I totally get it.

Iplawyer

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2017, 01:01:28 PM »
OP, very impressive working so hard to get to possible FIRE! Very impressed by rental income!

OP, I am in a similar situation! Except I am a few years from FIRE. I meant with the stay-at-home mom misery while the husband works all the time dilemma. My husband also switched gears from being a SAHD and wanting to retire immediately to working constantly. He is gaining prestige at his company and I'm afraid that is way more addictive than anything I can provide. He has the perfect life: a beautiful wife and 2 sweet children and homemade meals. I have several advanced degrees and spend my days doing laundry and cleaning the floors (we can't afford help). My kids are 1 & 4 and everyone says it gets easier. I am so tired all the time, my stress and health and marriage are taking its toll. I married him so I could spend time with him, not so I could be his servant.

Should I go back to work? We live in an expensive area and my salary would take a huge hit with childcare. Plus I'd still have to do ALL the cooking and cleaning (unless we hired a nanny, but she couldn't do everything), and when would I have time to exercise or see my friends? I don't want a stranger raising my kids. I want to teach them family traditions and all that. So does my husband. I get a babysitter every now and again, that is different than a teacher/nanny spending 45+ hours/week with my kids. I've never found a job/career that I love so much that I would want to be tired, stressed, fat, and missing my kids.

I am not made to be a SAHM. Our society of nuclear families is not made to be helpful for women. EVERY SINGLE sahm I talk to, when you dive into those important conversations, feels the same way. It is hard. We are tired. Our husbands are happy.

This is what I would do if I have the money: I would hire a manny. I would hire a young man who could watch my kids and take them hiking and fix a leaky roof and take the car in for new tires and do laundry. Essentially, replace my husband. Because hiring a nanny is like hiring a replacement mom. But a manny is hiring a replacement dad. My husband would quit his job immediately if he saw another man having all the fun that he's missing out on with his kids, and if I was appreciative of another man for helping me with chores.

Please PM me and keep in touch and let me know what little things you find that work, both short and long term. Best of luck, I totally get it.

You need some perspective here.  You want to stay home and raise your kids.  That is a choice you made.  If that choice is making you angry - why take it out on your husband?  Make a different choice or suck it up and live with your choice.  I don't know how your husband could quit his job immediately if you cannot even afford outside help.  Apparently you need his income.  Given that you need his income - and you don't want somebody else raising the kids - what is it exactly that you want him to do?  You just sound completely irrational about this.  If you "don't want to be his servant" then get a job and hire a "manny."  I totally don't get you.

Cassie

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2017, 01:28:34 PM »
When I was a SAHM I got together with other moms once/week to talk and our kids could play together. We would rotate homes. Once my kids were 3 I sent them to nursery school (not sure if they have these anymore). They would go for  2 1/2 hours 2 or 3x's/week so it gave them some play time and me a little time to myself. This was not very expensive. Look for solutions to make yourself happier.  We didn't have the $ to solve problems so I got creative. When you decide to have kids you decide to do the work.  As they grow it physically gets easier but mentally much harder.

Sydneystache

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2017, 01:47:33 PM »
@ iplawyer I think @clairebonk and the OP have something shared that is going to be the cause of many resentments: they gave up their careers to support their husbands'. Their husbands are happy, they are not. If I had to "give up" after 10 years of grad school to have kids and say goodbye to any career I ever had/dreamt/wished for grudgingly as part of a clause in any relationship contract then I would be very peeved off.

Finding your tribe of mothers who can empathise with your situation can also be difficult. When I was a single mother, I tried to join a single mothers' club - didn't work out because of everyone's baggage. Now that I'm partnered up, I've met a couple of mothers who are mature enough and open enough to accept the variety of people's circumstances. They like my independence, I like them because of their honesty. One is a SAHM now and she's FIRE so we're on the same page without feeling guilty/odd. Another is a SAHM all her married life and she's struggling with her identity now that her eldest is about to fly the nest.

It took a while to find my mother tribe but sharing problems, meeting up etc with them has helped.

Cassie

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2017, 02:23:13 PM »
If the moms want to go back to work then they should. One of the big problems has been and still is that most studies show that men do not do their share of household chores whether their wives work or not. So the solution is too hire it out if you can afford it and if not the women feel resentful if they are working f.t. and also have f.t. home duties. I never expected my husband to do chores when I stayed at home because that was my job. The Goblin chief is a SAHD and he does everything home and kid related because his wife is working. Once you decide to have kids there are trade offs and expecting your husband to quit work is unreasonable.

badassprof

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2017, 03:20:18 PM »
I think I can provide a bit of insight as well as our situations are remarkably similar. My husband and I are both academics in a similar field to your DH and we have young kids just a bit older than yours. We both love our jobs, but DH loves it more and would probably keep doing it post FI, whereas I would gladly spend more time with the kids and explore other pursuits. One tricky thing about our jobs is that we can't just quit or scale back for a few years while the kids are young and hope to get a similar job once they start school, and this is my one big regret. A tenure track position is incredibly hard to come by and I'm pretty certain you would kiss your career goodbye if you did that, as no one would want to take the risk of hiring you in the future if you changed your mind, and you would very likely be no longer competitive anyway, as there is always a constantly-renewed talented pool of young graduates waiting in the wings. One difference in our situation is that we had kids post-tenure, so there was definitely less pressure there.

Regarding current and future workload for your DH. As the previous posters have pointed out, there is a huge difference in the beginning, not necessarily pre- and post-tenure, but when you are first starting out just the enormous amount of time and energy required to set up your lab, recruit students, prepare your first courses, participate in administrative duties, apply for grants, etc. I easily spend about 10X the amount of time preparing a course for the first time compared to teaching it again in the future. As for pre- and post-tenure, I don't think there is as big of a difference in workload, but there is definitely a psychological weight lifted post tenure that makes work more enjoyable and less stressful.

Regarding your current situation with the kids. As I mentioned above, the timing is unfortunate as you are in the thick of it now with the kids at that age and your DH can't spend as much time helping you. When he will likely have more time in the future, they will probably be in school. I will say that it does get easier every day as they get a bit older. I know you want to spend all this time with your kids and you don't want to hire someone else to look after them, but I would urge you to ask yourself if it really makes you happy. There is no shame in wanting a bit of time to yourself when your kids are that young, and they are already so lucky to spend all this time with you, a few hours away from you won't hurt them, and for your older one, some time to socialize with other kids would probably be really beneficial. I get the impression that you don't think you are your best self with them due to understandably being exhausted, and I would suggest that a bit more childcare could make your life healthier and happier. Likewise with outsourcing things that you find exhausting or draining if you are FI.

Regarding DH's desire to keep working. Clearly your DH is very talented if he was able to obtain a tenure-track faculty position. If he loves his job, despite the stress, I think it is important that you both work together to let him give it a real shot. Your DH worked very hard to get where he is and deserves a chance to make a go of it if he wants to. And as I mentioned above, he probably feels this is his one shot at a tenure track position and he doesn't want to give it up so easily. He is in a unique situation where being FI could relieve some of the stress associated with trying to achieve tenure. I sense from your post that if you push him the outcome would not be good, and I think you need to try to work at avoiding feeling resentment as well.

All is not lost though. Academic jobs are incredibly flexible, and people have been understanding of how different our lives are now that we have young kids (we used to work ALL THE TIME). These are some of the things we have done since having kids to try to obtain better work/life balance. We pretty much avoid going to any non-mandatory event in the evening or weekend. We both took parental leave (would recommend this for your DH - they stop the clock on tenure when you take leave). We consider any break at the university to be family time and often travel away from home during those times. We do field work at locations that are good for kids and do that 1-2 months per year. We travel to conferences together and often stay an extra week or two as a family vacation. We go on international sabbaticals together in family friendly places. We adjust our schedules so that we can be around more for the kids by working after they go to bed in the evenings and when they nap on weekends. I think your DH could easily do all those things and you would get lots of travel in if that is what you like. I think you could travel on your own as well, as others have mentioned, but personally I would not want to be away from DH for very long, probably only a week or so at a time, unless visiting grandparents or traveling with grandparents so that I would have a bit of help.

I would highly recommend that you and DH go out to a nice restaurant or coffee shop without the kids and have a long conversation about where you see yourselves in 2 years, 5 years, 10 years. DH and I have started doing this and it has been very helpful to have long uninterrupted conversations in a relaxing setting. We usually do it at lunch so we are not too tired. Even though our goals are different, they are compatible and we can make them work. I think you could be in that situation as well. If you are willing to accept that DH should give his position a real shot, maybe talk to him about how he could try to minimize weekend and evening engagements and travelling by himself for a couple of years until the kids are older and it is less of a burden on you, and talk to him about how to leverage his position to get a life you are both excited about, full of family time and travel and adventure as well as his work. If you are supportive, you can both compromise and meet in the middle.

This is terrific advice and spot on:  it does get easier in academia once you receive tenure. It doesn't have to, of course, but it can, and the job can have incredible flexibility. For example, my partner can work remotely, so we have spent a couple of months every summer at  different locations working remotely. It has given us a chance to check out places post-FIRE that we might want to consider locating too.

It sounds like you are stressed and feel you have gotten the short end of the stick here. I don't blame you: I confess that I wouldn't want to be a SAHM either. Would it work for you to go back to work, at least part time? I know that isn't what you had originally envisioned, but it would give you a chance to get out of the house and to pocket a bit of money for future FIRE without making your partner feel he has to give up the career he has worked so hard for.

Wishing you and your family the best of luck.  And yesyes on the coffee or dinner date: it sounds like a good conversation is in order.

SilveradoBojangles

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2017, 04:42:54 PM »
I am the spouse of an aspiring academic, so I've been reading your post and all the replies with interest, because we've been talking a lot lately about how to reconcile our various dreams/goals. In fact, he just got an offer for a tenure track job this morning. I work as a consultant, and I am much more interested in FIRE than he is, because my ideal life involves lots of travel (with him) and being able to work from anywhere on projects I'm interested in. That's actually the life we've been living for the last couple of years, and it has been awesome. However, he feels the pull of academia (it's insidious and addictive to some people, though not to me - after my PhD I walked away with no regrets), and so he wants to give it a go. He realizes that he might not even like it (he knows he'll love the research, but the teaching and service requirements have been a difficult adjustment for some of our academic friends), but he just wants to give it a shot. And it does seem like something he would be great at.

Which means we'll be moving to the middle of no where, where it is cold and we have no friends and no family. We will be moving away from where I've built up all my work contacts. I know I've got some serious adjusting to do, but I think I can do it. But I also know that, while moving to a university in a different (better for me) location might be a possibility sometime in the next 3-10 years (and that is our goal, though there are no guarantees), there is just no way he's going to quit before getting tenure, even if he had all the money in the world. It just doesn't work that way, and all of the incentive structures and peer pressure are set up to reinforce the idea of tenure as the pinnacle of existence. I can't help but think that you, with experience as a grad student, must have known that when he accepted the job. It's not a kind of job that is about money. It's a lifestyle, and it's about the work, and access to collaborations with other smart people, and while you've framed your previous discussions as having agreed on a goal of achieving FIRE and quitting work entirely, no one would work to procure a tenure track job if that was their intention. So it makes me think that it is you that has changed the goal posts, rather than him.

I guess I say that because I have spent so much time over the last few months thinking about  what it is I am signing up for as the wife of an academic. It's a bit hard knowing that with my husband's skills he could get a way better paying job in a better location, or just consult and live out my dream of traveling and working from anywhere. However, there are lots of perks that come with the academic lifestyle the make it easier for me to swallow, like summers off and work related travel for me to tag along on and airline miles and schedule flexibility and great benefits. Plus, consulting doesn't have much security, so that will be nice as well. That security will also allow me to pursue some dreams of my own, whether they make money or not. I know that the first year will be hell, but I also know that it will get easier as he finds his footing. Maybe at some point he'll decide he wants to go another route (and we'll keep working towards FIRE so he has that option if he wants it), but at this point we are committed to the academic life.


Miss Growing Green

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2017, 09:04:50 PM »
Sorry for not updating/replying sooner- got busy ;)

I'm going to try to answer everyone's questions without writing an epic here.
Thanks for all of the thoughtful advice from everyone.  To those of you that straight out told me we should just get divorced- your opinion(s) are borderline offensive and largely worthless (just saying).  I realize it's hard to convey a 10 year relationship in a few paragraphs, but separation /divorce is not something either of us are remotely interested in. at all.

A few clarifications that many have mis-interpreted:
We BOTH want our children to have at least one stay at home parent.  It's not like I have no education and nothing better to do.  We met as colleagues getting our Master's degrees.  I have a Master's and he has a PhD.  He has said before that if I absolutely wanted to go back to work he would quit and be a SAHD (though he *really* doesn't want to do that).  So those that said that he is essentially living his dream with or without me are incorrect.  Both of us had "the dream" to have children and raise them together.  He would not be able to have his career without me being a SAHM. 

I only work 5-10 hours a week managing the entire rental business and all of the finances for the family.  Everything is already outsourced as much as possible.  5-10 hours a week is pretty minimal considering the amount of income the rentals are bringing in, and that we are actively investing each year.  I basically spend this time reviewing docs, signing things, putting in offers on new RE transactions, and fielding conversations from my various contacts (lawyer, management company, accountant, and real estate agent).

I don't plan to ever go back to work at a standard job.  When I feel as though I have ample free time, I'll put more time into growing the rentals.  If that isn't fulfilling I'll volunteer time doing something that is, since money won't be a driver.  If that feels too menial I can always start a non-profit for something that engages me (thinking out loud here).

My husband and I are very open and honest.  I love the suggestion(s) to sit down and have a long conversation without kids.  My in-laws will be here at the end of the month and we will be able to have some kid-free time.  In the past we have written down our 3, 5, and 10 year goals for family, personal, and financial attainment.  I think we'll do this and then see where we align and can compromise.

Now, to address certain individuals:

historienne & Genevieve- thanks for the advice and article.  Yes, there are opportunities for travel.  When he gets tenure there is an option for a 2-yr sabbatical anywhere we want (for the most part).  There are also conferences a few times a year but those are very stressful events and bringing the family along seems silly when the destinations aren't usually that enticing.

Noodle- Yes, we moved for the job.  I agree, our situation is temporary.  I realize things will become vastly easier once the kids start school and once my husband gets tenure (potentially).  It just sucks that the hardest parenting part (physically/time wise) is overlapping with the hardest stage in his career.

farmerj- See above, but rentals themselves are only about 5 hrs/wk.  Entirety of managing our finances and rental investments is 5-10 hours a week.  I am pretty much unwilling to sell off something that is earning a substantial salary for an input of 5 hrs / week ;).  It's my one "adult" thing I get to do now, and the freedom of not "having" to work (whether or not he chooses to) is something we both can't let go of.

Hargrove- achieving FIRE is a series of compromises.  No one (except that ERE guy) is working every free minute and eating rice and beans for every meal.  We both obtained graduate degrees in ecology, like you said, not a good choice for FIRE.  That was the one major compromise we made because it was important to us to not sacrifice our passions for FIRE.  I eventually quit when we decided to prioritize starting a family, but we always had our side job / hobby of remodeling, flipping, and rentals.  When we attained enough financial stability for me to quit I focused on building up the rentals so hubby could eventually quit too.  Everyone can look at the life choices of someone who is FIRE and point out non-FIRE choices.  Doesn't mean we didn't aggressively and thoughtfully work towards FIRE. And BTW, we did it on a single salary (because when he was doing his PhD I was working, then he got a job and I quit).  Not bragging, just saying we definitely did the live/spend minimally, save and aggressively invest strategy.

Retire-Canada
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Nothing would prevent her husband from using his education to do something rewarding that is compatible with less than FT work and could be done remotely. She's not saying stop working 100%. She's saying you don't need to work for money so prioritize you wife and kids over work. That seems pretty reasonable.
YES. YES. YES!!! (and thank you for saying so :)

Travelling Bioligst-
It's so nice to hear from someone in a similar situation (though who has progressed past our point) and can see the light at the end of the tunnel and also offer support through solidarity. Tons of good suggestions and food for thought- thank you.

clairebonk-
Hahaha, your post is amazing!  Basically speaking my mind in alot of ways.  The manny idea is not bad!  The things I can never get to, like changing the oil, picking up the dog poo in the back, and now that we have two kids, doing more active stuff with the older one since the younger one is still so little.  We have a "nanny" that comes 4 hrs/week to our home, but I have mixed feelings about it, because she is doing "my" job while I do "other work".  We never evolved to raise kids by ourselves (e.g. one woman raising children without other women).  We live far from any family and are "alone" aside from my girlfriends that are all as worn thin as I am.  I'll respond to your pm now... :)

Iplawyer-
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Are you managing the properties?  Otherwise, why is your life so stressful?  Millions and Millions of people make this work without being as stressed as you seem to be.  And it is selfish of you to want him to quit. 
So, in short, OUTSOURCE everything possible, including the property management.  You are stealing time from your relationship with your husband by trying to continue to do that.
mmkay.  I'm trying to take your suggestions in the best light possible, but I seriously cannot move past these words.  First to answer your question- yes, I have a property management company.  However, when you get to a certain number of rentals you still have to invest some time in managing, even if you have a property mgmt. company (especially if you are actively acquiring property each year).  I work about 5 hrs/week on rentals.
So it is selfish for me to want him to quit, but I am "stealing" time from my relationship with my husband if I pursue a career (even a career from home that I squeeze into the cracks of my life)?
I never said it was *so* stressful.  I just said it was stressful.  As stressed as any other stay-at-home parent is with two young kids and a partner working all the time away from home.  I just think it's silly for us to be "like everyone else" when we don't have to live that life of stress.

Hargrove

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2017, 09:20:50 PM »
Hargrove- achieving FIRE is a series of compromises.  No one (except that ERE guy) is working every free minute and eating rice and beans for every meal.

Oi. That's not the point. I think you may have undervalued your husband's engagement with his job. Your Master's degree is certainly significant. The story you tell is about how you relinquished that path and your husband has not, but your questions are about getting him to do things more your way instead of understanding what the problem is.

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(Clairebonk): My husband would quit his job immediately if he saw another man having all the fun that he's missing out on with his kids, and if I was appreciative of another man for helping me with chores.

Wow. When jealousy turns into that kind of plan, and you make a gamble like that, what do you win? He's jealous enough to make an impulsive career-crashing move he might horribly regret, or he's happy for you and that makes you resent him more?

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(Cassie): One of the big problems has been and still is that most studies show that men do not do their share of household chores whether their wives work or not... I never expected my husband to do chores when I stayed at home because that was my job.

Huh? Which position are you taking?

Sydneystache

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #48 on: March 07, 2017, 12:34:02 AM »
Quote
I realize things will become vastly easier once the kids start school and once my husband gets tenure (potentially).  It just sucks that the hardest parenting part (physically/time wise) is overlapping with the hardest stage in his career.

So he does not have tenure yet....hmmm...this profession is not immune to politicking that infect other jobs so I hope this dream he is pursuing is worth it for his entire family and he can find a compromise with you IF he ever gets tenure.

Can he take some parental/carers leave or is that a no-go until tenure?

Alps

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Re: How to convince my husband to quit his job?
« Reply #49 on: March 07, 2017, 04:35:07 AM »
So those that said that he is essentially living his dream with or without me are incorrect.  Both of us had "the dream" to have children and raise them together.  He would not be able to have his career without me being a SAHM. 

Sorry Miss Growing Green, I think your perception is incorrect. This is an oh-so-familiar story: "we both wanted to raise our kids and have at least one person at home!". The woman thinks: "... either person, whatever works best at a given time." The man thinks: ".... as long as it is not me.". And surprise, the man is unwilling to do even a LITTLE bit to honor the original agreement. Like, not take any evening engagements for the first few months of a newborn?? If nothing else, THIS is doable, come on! And I would argue that even travel can be postponed for a while (no, conferences are not that important, honest. If (big if!!) you use them well you have a list of people you want to talk to at a specific conference. Well, with a bit of work you could also just call those people and have a chat over the phone to talk about research. It works, I've done it.).

Academia is intense, sure, but it is also exactly the same as any other job in that you can work smarter instead of harder. I know because I did my PhD with an 80% work load while having two kids, NOT bringing work home, finishing after the average time and the standard number of (well-received) publications. And I got asked for postdoc positions afterwards. Now guess what excuse the male PhD students in my old group give to their wives as to why they can't reduce their work load when the baby comes..

So, if your dream had truly been your husbands dream he would scale things way, way down, even if he keeps his current job. Both my partner and I have left academia after the PhD because we both actually wanted to be there for our kids, and we both wanted to have careers, and that would have been incredibly difficult (maybe not impossible, but...) for both people if one or both had stayed in academia. So now we both work in 80% jobs (still very much related to our PhDs, still doing research, just not in academia), and we BOTH take care of our kids. Because we actually wanted to!

I also know a bunch of academics on the path to tenure, and this is what I see:
* Guy with tenure track position, wife SAHM (once he got his current position), two kids: works a lot, brings work home, but works only after doing his evening kid duty, no weeekend work (except field trips), also makes time for a bunch of family vacations, brings family on field trips (and actually makes time for them to have a family vacation!) and so on. I don't envy the wife, but he's definitely trying.
* Guy on the postdoc circuit, wife SAHM after baby: constantly has "important deadlines", papers to publish, conferences to attend, soooo much work.. leaving his wife to deal with basically everything family related, especially the evenings, many weekends as well. Ok fine you may say, being a postdoc is hard! However, I happened to have worked with him in the same group, and I saw how he worked: always branches out into new avenues, always starts new papers and doesn't finish the old ones, basically goes where his mind takes him and never finishes anything. So of course he has to work late/evenings/weekends if/when the prof demands something! But it is absolutely not true that this was inevitable.

All this not to say that you should divorce him, but that an open and honest talk is absolutely in order. Maybe his wishes (taking care of the kids) changed, or maybe he even thinks he is being honest because he thinks he would be taking care of them if [something] - but actions speak louder than words! And his actions tell you that he is perfectly content having you do 100% of home duty.