Author Topic: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?  (Read 27971 times)

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #100 on: April 18, 2017, 01:40:41 PM »

What if they are passionate about theme parks and recreation because of the experience aspect of it? I believe there is a lot more opportunity for the hospitality/tourism aspect of theme parks than designing rollercoasters.  There were only 188 new roller coasters in 2016 with only 175 new ones scheduled for 2017, and this is worldwide. I don't know how many people or companies are involved in the design but I would guess a lot less than are involved in the operations for the locations those went into (and I don't mean the employees you actually see when you visit).
I mean, no two fields will ever line up exactly alike. And yeah, I understand that make probably isn't booming. My point was more that there are higher levels in many fields that can attained with some form of STEM education.

And again, I'm definitely NOT against people following their passions, I just don't think it should be your default career choice. Unless it's a pragmatic career, of course, in which case, that's awesome!

For example, if I have a son and he's a talented opera singer, but maybe not at the level he may need for where he wants to go with it. Rather than majoring in theater or a similar field, maybe he could find a way to indirectly get involved in the field, so he can hedge his failure risk a bit. He could work as, say, an acoustic engineer without having to worry about not being good enough to actually sing on stage. Doesn't mean he couldn't try out. And if he made it, great. If not, he'd have a great backup.

If my goal was to be the next David Gilmour, that doesn't mean I should major in music. With a large chance of failure, I'd probably be better off choosing a more lucrative career that had less risk, but allowed me the funds to, say, afford private guitar lessons, and get to the point I'd need to be to live off of it.

I don't know if what I'm saying makes sense. I still 100% want my children to follow their passions. Just if they're pretty unlikely to succeed by following their passions, there are always roundabout ways of doing things while hedging your risk.


vivophoenix

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #101 on: April 18, 2017, 01:49:30 PM »
guys,  this is also the same poster, who thinks people that do not make enough money in their home state, should move to a new state and be homeless.

we know what type of person he is, instead of hoping for his growth, it's easier to ignore him. i feel like he does not currently have the capacity to understand and take your advice on children rearing and dating and marriage.

the real question is: what would his GF think of this thread?

if she's his everything and ready to be his wife, she will find this acceptable.

but if I found a thread, in which my bf asked, for the best way to convince my future children to value nothing I have dedicated my life to, we would be over.

i think the poster is a snake in the grass, and clearly, those ruler blows caused more damage than he realizes.

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #102 on: April 18, 2017, 01:54:01 PM »

but if I found a thread, in which my bf asked, for the best way to convince my future children to value nothing I have dedicated my life to
Good thing you didn't find any thread like that.

vivophoenix

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #103 on: April 18, 2017, 02:00:27 PM »

but if I found a thread, in which my bf asked, for the best way to convince my future children to value nothing I have dedicated my life to
Good thing you didn't find any thread like that.


so are you just moving from ' I'm young and have a lot to learn, and I know I'll have to compromise a bit." to being snarky and defensive?


would you show this thread to your GF guilt free with zero expectation of hurting her feelings?

TravelJunkyQC

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #104 on: April 18, 2017, 02:05:38 PM »
My mother was born in post-war France from Polish parents. According to them, she should have been, at most, a teacher (because she was a woman). She has a PhD in astrophysics from Stanford. My father was born in a middle-class Canadian family, his father was in the military and his mother didn't work because she took care of the children. Education was important, but they couldn't help him financially and wouldn't have wanted to considering he could have gotten a decent job with a regular simple degree. He has a PhD in mathematics also from Stanford.

They are millionaires several times over. Yeah, okay, they're in the STEM fields.

They are proof that your children are going to do and be whoever the f*** they want.

They would have liked us to be STEM as well, because it's something they understood.

Instead, my sister is a cheesemaker with her own business, I majored in Anthropology but now work in comm. and PR.

They paid for our education (a "useless" degree according to you).

Now I put aside over 50% of my salary, make good money, have real estate, and will otherwise be able to FIRE quite early. With a "useless" degree and a non-STEM job.

There is one reason why I was able to accumulate good money with a "useless" degree. And it has 100% nothing to do with the degree.

It's because my parents taught me about money, how it works, what credit means, what is a mortgage, what is compound interest, etc.

That's it.

Teach your children to understand finances. If they do, they will make the right choices for them and they WON'T BE BROKE.

You can be broke with a STEM job and 100k salary. And you can be rich with a Anthropology degree, PR job and 50k salary. One isn't "easier" than the other if you don't know what the f*** you're doing with the money coming in anyway.

The path to wealth has strictly nothing to do with your degree, and everything to do with your grasp on the concept of money.

Teach them to grasp finances, and they will live a good life.

Tell them how to live their life and they will cut you out of it before the end.

I understand where you're coming from, because my partner (an engineer with a PhD) thinks the same way as you. We have many discussions, as you and your GF do, about raising our children and paying for their education according to our standards. But I would have been miserable and felt cornered if my parents had stated that they would only pay for my degree if it was a subject of their choosing. Instead, they said, "we'll pay for your undergrad, but anything beyond that is on you." As such, I knew what I was getting into and I was responsible for myself as soon as I finished my degree. But more importantly, as I said above, how transparent they were with me in terms of their own money management and setting financial priorities gave me a far better edge than anything else. And because of that healthy relationship, I have always felt I could count on them for advice. Including career advice - even if it isn't STEM. Don't count that influence out; it's important.

As I see it, I think STEM people tend to build more wealth because they are more apt to be interested in the mathematical implications of personal finance and optimization. Not the other way around. Correlation doesn't necessarily imply causation. Perhaps personalities that are drawn to the STEMs are also drawn to financial optimization.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 02:17:59 PM by TravelJunkyQC »

LadyStache in Baja

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #105 on: April 18, 2017, 02:07:52 PM »
Hi Monkey, you know it's funny. People on this very forum are very quick to say "stupid idiots who found themselves having kids with incompatible people blah blah this is something you should talk about BEFORE you get married" and now these same people are saying "whoa buddy chill out, you haven't even had kids yet."  You just can't win!

So regarding your question. Kids and humans in general, learn by imitation. Full stop. They will see you and your values (and your wife and her values) and they will absorb them through osmosis. As long as you don't lecture them, or push them, or walk around like you're god's gift to children everywhere, they will probably respect you and even want to be like you.

In order to help them understand your point about making smart career choices, you need to have the kind of relationship with them where they can come to you with their problems. As you'll soon find out (once you have kids and if you have any self-awareness) that kind of relationship doesn't blossom with authoritarian parenting.  I was like you before kids! I thought I had to teach them the way. Then I realized that I just need to nurture my relationship with them and they'll WANT to find out what I think, and they'll WANT to take my advice.

So, my best advice to you is to read this book: "How to Talk so Kids will Listen & Listen So Kids will Talk" https://www.amazon.com/How-Talk-Kids-Will-Listen-ebook/dp/B005GG0MXI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1492545611&sr=8-1&keywords=how+to+talk+so+kids+will+listen+and+listen

Don't worry, it's not coddling, or permissive parenting. But it is about how to create the kind of relationship with your kids where they'll look to you for counsel when making important decisions in life! 

Read it now, it's also great for learning how to communicate with other humans in your life, even adult humans. So it'll be good help to get your concerns expressed to your gf.

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #106 on: April 18, 2017, 02:15:12 PM »
Hi Monkey, you know it's funny. People on this very forum are very quick to say "stupid idiots who found themselves having kids with incompatible people blah blah this is something you should talk about BEFORE you get married" and now these same people are saying "whoa buddy chill out, you haven't even had kids yet."  You just can't win!

So regarding your question. Kids and humans in general, learn by imitation. Full stop. They will see you and your values (and your wife and her values) and they will absorb them through osmosis. As long as you don't lecture them, or push them, or walk around like you're god's gift to children everywhere, they will probably respect you and even want to be like you.

In order to help them understand your point about making smart career choices, you need to have the kind of relationship with them where they can come to you with their problems. As you'll soon find out (once you have kids and if you have any self-awareness) that kind of relationship doesn't blossom with authoritarian parenting.  I was like you before kids! I thought I had to teach them the way. Then I realized that I just need to nurture my relationship with them and they'll WANT to find out what I think, and they'll WANT to take my advice.

So, my best advice to you is to read this book: "How to Talk so Kids will Listen & Listen So Kids will Talk" https://www.amazon.com/How-Talk-Kids-Will-Listen-ebook/dp/B005GG0MXI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1492545611&sr=8-1&keywords=how+to+talk+so+kids+will+listen+and+listen

Don't worry, it's not coddling, or permissive parenting. But it is about how to create the kind of relationship with your kids where they'll look to you for counsel when making important decisions in life! 

Read it now, it's also great for learning how to communicate with other humans in your life, even adult humans. So it'll be good help to get your concerns expressed to your gf.
Great post. The bolded. That's what I want more than anything. I want them to truly be able to see me as a good source of advice, as I saw my grandfather's advice.

vivophoenix

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #107 on: April 18, 2017, 02:18:04 PM »
but you also want them to ignore your once and future wife? you aren't trying to convince your GF to be mustachian. you are trying to convince her to let you dominate your kids' futures.

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #108 on: April 18, 2017, 02:22:44 PM »
but you also want them to ignore your once and future wife? you aren't trying to convince your GF to be mustachian. you are trying to convince her to let you dominate your kids' futures.
No, I'm not at all. I speak out heavily against kids being raised without both a motherly and fatherly figure around. Why would I subject my kid to all of the negative consequences associated with lack of either?

vivophoenix

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #109 on: April 18, 2017, 02:31:16 PM »
but you also want them to ignore your once and future wife? you aren't trying to convince your GF to be mustachian. you are trying to convince her to let you dominate your kids' futures.
No, I'm not at all. I speak out heavily against kids being raised without both a motherly and fatherly figure around. Why would I subject my kid to all of the negative consequences associated with lack of either?

because you want that motherly figure to parrot what you think?

that and having a wife doesn't mean you have a motherly figure, just like not having a wife does not mean you don't have a motherly figure. ( so many negatives in one sentence)

and i don't think there are negative consequences to one parent households as it refers to a gendered presence.
usually, a one parent household suffers from a scarcity of tangible resources: energy and money.


MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #110 on: April 18, 2017, 02:34:23 PM »

and i don't think there are negative consequences to one parent households as it refers to a gendered presence.
usually, a one parent household suffers from a scarcity of tangible resources: energy and money.
There are quite a few psychological effects of being raised by a single parent. It is also associated with all kinds of negative behavior. Definitely not something to aspire to.

vivophoenix

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #111 on: April 18, 2017, 02:37:08 PM »

and i don't think there are negative consequences to one parent households as it refers to a gendered presence.
usually, a one parent household suffers from a scarcity of tangible resources: energy and money.
There are quite a few psychological effects of being raised by a single parent. It is also associated with all kinds of negative behavior. Definitely not something to aspire to.


i am unaware of any negative effects.

but i have the first-hand experience of being told by one parent to never grow up to be like the other. 

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #112 on: April 18, 2017, 02:40:31 PM »

and i don't think there are negative consequences to one parent households as it refers to a gendered presence.
usually, a one parent household suffers from a scarcity of tangible resources: energy and money.
There are quite a few psychological effects of being raised by a single parent. It is also associated with all kinds of negative behavior. Definitely not something to aspire to.


i am unaware of any negative effects.

but i have the first-hand experience of being told by one parent to never grow up to be like the other.
Well, there are a myriad of psychological effects that can take place (too many to mention in this post), but some behaviors single-parent households DO effect, in very statistically-significant ways:

-Increased drop-out rates
-Increased drug and alcohol usage
-More aggressive behavior
-More incarcerations

The list can go on and on. Being raised by a single parent, ON AVERAGE, leads to far worse outcomes than just about anything else. Again, I'm saying ON AVERAGE. I already know some single parents will get offended and think I'm talking about ALL single parents, much like liberal arts majors have done ITT. I'm not.

vivophoenix

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #113 on: April 18, 2017, 02:44:01 PM »

and i don't think there are negative consequences to one parent households as it refers to a gendered presence.
usually, a one parent household suffers from a scarcity of tangible resources: energy and money.
There are quite a few psychological effects of being raised by a single parent. It is also associated with all kinds of negative behavior. Definitely not something to aspire to.


i am unaware of any negative effects.

but i have the first-hand experience of being told by one parent to never grow up to be like the other.
Well, there are a myriad of psychological effects that can take place (too many to mention in this post), but some behaviors single-parent households DO effect, in very statistically-significant ways:

-Increased drop-out rates
-Increased drug and alcohol usage
-More aggressive behavior
-More incarcerations

The list can go on and on. Being raised by a single parent, ON AVERAGE, leads to far worse outcomes than just about anything else. Again, I'm saying ON AVERAGE. I already know some single parents will get offended and think I'm talking about ALL single parents, much like liberal arts majors have done ITT. I'm not.

did those studies also tease out whether the parent could afford good child care during work, did it also adjust for income, and education level?

did it tease out environmental factors like the neighborhood or a divorce due to the same bad behavior listed above?

or even the amount of parental involvement a one parent household can typically give?

vivophoenix

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #114 on: April 18, 2017, 02:45:02 PM »
either way, you have received a lot of good advice. GL with your future wife's, future kids, and their future careers, and their future earnings.

honeybbq

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #115 on: April 18, 2017, 03:05:29 PM »
You are "putting the cart before the horse".

I would suggest you focus on your relationship with your potential wife.  If and when you have children, discuss the particulars then.  I don't think you need to discuss every last detail about how you want your kids educated NOW...
I mean, I don't HAVE to, but I want to have some general guidelines I can follow. I don't think planning ahead would be a bad idea. I want to have a good idea about how I'll teach, how I'll discipline, how much flexibility I'll give the children, etc.

@nessness Well, I've already said that I was raised to believe that work is for money, hobbies are for fun. Hopefully both line up, but don't be a dumbass and throw away opportunity because something else might be more fun.

Sure, I'd love NOTHING more than to be the greatest running back to ever play in the NFL. But this is real life. Passion =/= talent. Find a field that you're passionate about AND it pays well. Passion means nothing if you're barely scraping by.


That's the thing. You don't get to pick your child. What you THINK should work, or what worked with YOU will not necessarily work with your child.

I grew up in a strict military household so you can imagine how I was raised, and I LAUGHING at the idea of making my 5 year old do wall sits and planks as punishment as you suggest.

You will have to see what works with your child and how to reach them. You will have to learn to adapt. A preconceived notion is going to do nothing but inhibit your relationship with them, and continuing to not change with your child will lead them to resent you.

Pushkina2

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #116 on: April 18, 2017, 03:37:35 PM »
Good luck to you, OP. I'm going to leave it at that.

Tiger Stache

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #117 on: April 18, 2017, 03:46:48 PM »
Find another GF. You're wasting time worrying about your future children's incomes.

Ann

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #118 on: April 18, 2017, 04:27:24 PM »
First, I would like to say I am pleased and surprised OP has stuck with the thread thus far.  Some commenters have been quite rude.

I, for one, AM glad you are discussing these things in advance.  It is obviously something you care about, and I think it is important that you and your future wife be on board with how you approach children and finances. 

Second, OP you say it isn't "my way or the highway" but that it not how you are presenting yourself.  You are saying you are willing to pay for a college education, but ONLY with a pre-approved list of majors.  This DOES actually sound like a "my way or you're on your own" mentality.  I think this is the part you will have to let go.  You and your partner can decide whether you will pay for any amount of college, but I think you will have to trust your child to make a decision and live with the consequences.  You can set an example and discuss your opinions, but I don't think it would be wise to reject too harshly if they do not follow the exact path you choose. 

I do appreciate that you seem to recognize this decision would need to be made in tandem with your partner.  If you are saving money together for college, it would likely cause a lot of strife if one of you suddenly decided to cut off funding if the kid declares an English major sophomore year.  Honestly, the first time I read your initial post I thought you WERE saying you would unilaterally decide to control the money that you and your wife saved.  Then I realized the whole point of the thread was to convince your future wife, so that probably isn't so at all.

Be a role model.  Help the kid explore practical applications to his/her interests and talents.  I think by the time they are 18, however, you are going to have to let them make some mistakes.  Even mistakes that have consequences.

I think going $117,000 into debt for my education started me on the path to MMM.  I'm not that mustachian, but am far better than my friends.  If I didn't have the external pressure of debt, I may not have done so much research/reading and worked so hard to pay off that huge, over-whelming debt.   I definitely could have done it better, but it worked out well in the end.


« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 04:41:36 PM by Ann »

dhc

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #119 on: April 18, 2017, 04:34:44 PM »
would you show this thread to your GF guilt free with zero expectation of hurting her feelings?

This. I'm not super worried about your kids, because you don't have them yet. But please, show your girlfriend this thread. It's very possible many of us (myself included) have misread your tone and she'll just say "well, that's my Mr Monkey - not very good at expressing himself, a little bit hard-headed, but trying to figure out the best solution for something he cares about, which I love about him." If so, great!

On the other hand, it's possible your approach to this will cause her rethink just how sure of a thing marriage and children are for the two of you. I know that doesn't sound like a good thing now since you're crazy about her, but if the two of you aren't compatible you're going to figure out eventually. Better to to do it before it involves divorce and splitting custody.

JoRocka

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #120 on: April 18, 2017, 04:45:18 PM »
Sad that the arts are 'useless'to you.

Also secondly sad that you seem to think giving money for and education gives you the rights to a person's life path. You want a say in how the money is used. Then you use it. And keep it. Giving education is a gift. Not an ultimatum to hold over your child's head. That's fucked up.

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surfhb

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #121 on: April 18, 2017, 05:08:39 PM »
24 years old, unmarried with no kids.....

I pretty much stopped listening to your opinions on this particular subject after that.   LOL

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #122 on: April 18, 2017, 05:10:37 PM »
24 years old, unmarried with no kids.....

I pretty much stopped listening to your opinions on this particular subject after that.   LOL
Not saying I'm right about anything said in this thread, but saying I'm wrong due to those things is a logical fallacy.

surfhb

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #123 on: April 18, 2017, 05:19:11 PM »
24 years old, unmarried with no kids.....

I pretty much stopped listening to your opinions on this particular subject after that.   LOL
Not saying I'm right about anything said in this thread, but saying I'm wrong due to those things is a logical fallacy.

Hmm...well you may be right.    Add 15 years, marriage and kids and we will see.    But, thinking you or your life will be any where near the way it is now after 15-20 years, a wife and kids is just plain.....immature thinking ;)

Tyson

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #124 on: April 18, 2017, 05:47:24 PM »
For example, I think that parenting essentially IS indoctrination, so trying to at least mold your kids, within reason, shouldn't be frowned upon. But, for the most part, I don't think we'll have too many issues. Mainly just me being of the tough love mentality.

You are simply wrong about this.  Kids are who they are and you cannot make them 'better' or different than what they are.  The only thing you accomplish by trying, is to screw them up. 

Let me repeat that - parent's can't improve their kids, but they sure can f- them up. 

That's the choice you have.  Hope you make the right call.

Fi(re) on the Farm

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #125 on: April 18, 2017, 06:12:56 PM »
okay, I can say this because I'm a grandmother with a successful kid and I'm a secretary and my husband mows grass for a living - hey asshat, you can push your kid into whatever you want - my mom is a math phd but I grow shit and save 75% of my income without college. You cannot have children and put that kind of pressure on them. Really? This is what keeps you up at night? Do you want your kids to come home on holidays? We all want our children to be successful but success is not always measured in what you can see.

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #126 on: April 18, 2017, 07:44:56 PM »
hey asshat
Stopped reading there. I'm all for criticism. But why waste my time with personal attacks?

@Janie I won't disagree with you there. I 100% agree.

deborah

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #127 on: April 18, 2017, 10:20:40 PM »
There appear to be a couple of presumptions here that are somewhat incorrect.

We are in the MMM forum. Sure MMM was STEM. However, one of his basic premises is that you get your finances in order, and then RETIRE EARLY. His emphasis appears to me on living a happy, non-disruptive-to-the-planet lifestyle that you have earned by getting your finances in order, and not botting off others (this is an Australian term meaning to cadge, and is applied to anything from cigarettes to being dependent on someone else).

So, it seems to me that you may not have absorbed very much of the MMM message. You want to bot off your parents by living with them, rather than standing on your own feet, managing your lifestyle within your own income. Yet you think that you are more Mustashian than your GF.

So let's pretend we are not on the MMM forum, and you want your kids to be rich, and we will get onto the second presumption you appear to be making...

I have learnt through my life that the majority of people who are in any sort of rich list are not STEM (just look at any list you can put your hands on). Have you looked around you at who is rich and who isn't? I know a number of wealthy people (self-made millionaires), and not one of them (apart from MMM - whom I have met a couple of times, so I guess I should include) did a STEM course, or had a STEM career. So it appears to me that your basic premise (that STEM = money) is wrong. If you are STEM, the exercise should convince you that your premise is flawed.

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #128 on: April 19, 2017, 04:21:11 AM »
You claims to love and respect her ... but you're going to do everything you can to undermine her as a parent? You're going to denigrate not just what she does but part of who she is? You're going to try to force onto hypothetical future children the idea that their mother is lesser because she's artsy, and they're not allowed to be like her? Oh, I know you're going to argue and claim that's not what they're doing, but it is. That is exactly what you're doing, by prioritizing one narrow set of fields above all others.


This. This is why I said you have contempt for you gf. If you think any future children won't see the contempt in your eyes, your face, and your heart, you are mistaken. This is how children learn, by watching others. And they will either learn to treat their mother (and other women) as worthless just as dear old dad taught, or they will rebel and hate you for treating her so disrespectfully.

If you don't see that this thinking is completely disrespectful to your partner, then you need to look harder. You must respect your gf, her choices, her contributions, as equal. Whether or not they bring in as much money as you do. Lucky for you, she seems willing to do the same for you.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #129 on: April 19, 2017, 06:35:40 AM »

and i don't think there are negative consequences to one parent households as it refers to a gendered presence.
usually, a one parent household suffers from a scarcity of tangible resources: energy and money.
There are quite a few psychological effects of being raised by a single parent. It is also associated with all kinds of negative behavior. Definitely not something to aspire to.

A. as the child of a single parent, go fuck yourself
B. as the parent of an extremely strong-willed young child, this whole thing is LOL

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #130 on: April 19, 2017, 06:43:57 AM »

and i don't think there are negative consequences to one parent households as it refers to a gendered presence.
usually, a one parent household suffers from a scarcity of tangible resources: energy and money.
There are quite a few psychological effects of being raised by a single parent. It is also associated with all kinds of negative behavior. Definitely not something to aspire to.

A. as the child of a single parent, go fuck yourself
B. as the parent of an extremely strong-willed young child, this whole thing is LOL

Why do you say that? No need to resort to personal attacks. I said not ALL single parents. It'd be pretty stupid for me to suggest all single parents, as I was raised by one. The statistics do not lie. Being raised by a single parent, ON AVERAGE, subjects you to higher dropout rates, incarceration rates, and drug use rates.

I can understand people disagreeing with me. That's fine. But there's no reason to be getting all riled up and telling me to fuck myself. I've clashed with people, but have yet to make a single personal attack.

While I can post the actual studies themselves all day, if you don't believe me, just take a look at what even the very liberal California government says:

http://lib.post.ca.gov/Publications/Building%20a%20Career%20Pipeline%20Documents/Safe_Harbor.pdf

70% of gang members, high school dropouts, teen suicides, teen pregnancies and teen substance abusers come from single mother homes.
63% of suicides nationwide are individuals from single-parent families.
75% of children in chemical dependency hospitals are from single-parent families.
More than half of all youths incarcerated in the U.S. lived in one-parent families as a child
Thirty-seven percent of families led by single mothers nationwide live in poverty. Comparatively, only 6.8% of families with married parents live in poverty, according to data from 2009 compiled by the Heritage Foundation.
Consider these dire statistics from single parent households:*
➲  63% of youth suicides (Source: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Bureau of the Census)
➲  90% of all homeless and runaway children
➲  85% of all children that exhibit behavioral disorders (Source: Center for
Disease Control)
➲  80% of rapists motivated with displaced anger (Source: Criminal Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26, 1978.)
➲  71% of all high school dropouts (Source: National Principals Association Report on the State of High Schools.)
➲  75% of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers (Source: Rainbows for All God`s Children.)
➲  70% of juveniles in state-operated institutions (Source: U.S. Dept. of Justice, Special Report, Sept 1988)
➲  85% of all youths sitting in prisons (Source: Fulton County Georgia jail populations, Texas Department of Corrections 1992)
*U.S. Census Bureau, 2009-2011 American Community Surveys, 2012 Condition of Children in Orange County, America’s Families and Living Arrangements: 2012 by Jonathan Vespa and Jamie M. Lewis
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 06:47:42 AM by MrMonkeyMoustache »

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #131 on: April 19, 2017, 06:52:16 AM »

and i don't think there are negative consequences to one parent households as it refers to a gendered presence.
usually, a one parent household suffers from a scarcity of tangible resources: energy and money.
There are quite a few psychological effects of being raised by a single parent. It is also associated with all kinds of negative behavior. Definitely not something to aspire to.

A. as the child of a single parent, go fuck yourself
B. as the parent of an extremely strong-willed young child, this whole thing is LOL

Why do you say that? No need to resort to personal attacks. I said not ALL single parents. It'd be pretty stupid for me to suggest all single parents, as I was raised by one. The statistics do not lie. Being raised by a single parent, ON AVERAGE, subjects you to higher dropout rates, incarceration rates, and drug use rates.

I can understand people disagreeing with me. That's fine. But there's no reason to be getting all riled up and telling me to fuck myself. I've clashed with people, but have yet to make a single personal attack.

While I can post the actual studies themselves all day, if you don't believe me, just take a look at what even the very liberal California government says:

http://lib.post.ca.gov/Publications/Building%20a%20Career%20Pipeline%20Documents/Safe_Harbor.pdf

70% of gang members, high school dropouts, teen suicides, teen pregnancies and teen substance abusers come from single mother homes.
63% of suicides nationwide are individuals from single-parent families.
75% of children in chemical dependency hospitals are from single-parent families.
More than half of all youths incarcerated in the U.S. lived in one-parent families as a child
Thirty-seven percent of families led by single mothers nationwide live in poverty. Comparatively, only 6.8% of families with married parents live in poverty, according to data from 2009 compiled by the Heritage Foundation.
Consider these dire statistics from single parent households:*
➲  63% of youth suicides (Source: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Bureau of the Census)
➲  90% of all homeless and runaway children
➲  85% of all children that exhibit behavioral disorders (Source: Center for
Disease Control)
➲  80% of rapists motivated with displaced anger (Source: Criminal Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26, 1978.)
➲  71% of all high school dropouts (Source: National Principals Association Report on the State of High Schools.)
➲  75% of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers (Source: Rainbows for All God`s Children.)
➲  70% of juveniles in state-operated institutions (Source: U.S. Dept. of Justice, Special Report, Sept 1988)
➲  85% of all youths sitting in prisons (Source: Fulton County Georgia jail populations, Texas Department of Corrections 1992)
*U.S. Census Bureau, 2009-2011 American Community Surveys, 2012 Condition of Children in Orange County, America’s Families and Living Arrangements: 2012 by Jonathan Vespa and Jamie M. Lewis
Hang on, though, is that correlation or causation? Because the way you talk about it, it sounds like it's the cause, which isn't exactly right.

Also since you want to be an influencing and trusted advisor in your child's life, and liked the idea of "how to listen so kids will talk", I recommend delving a bit further into parenting books - there's quite a range out there of very good ones, and I'm finding them generally applicable to dealing with adults as well!

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #132 on: April 19, 2017, 06:58:57 AM »
The numbers and scope of the studies are statistically significant. There is, of course, no way to say with 100% accuracy that something is CAUSED by another thing, but ignoring the VOLUMES of studies that corroborate these claims, when in this very thread I was told to not ignore psychology studies, is hypocritical.

Gin1984

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #133 on: April 19, 2017, 06:59:37 AM »

and i don't think there are negative consequences to one parent households as it refers to a gendered presence.
usually, a one parent household suffers from a scarcity of tangible resources: energy and money.
There are quite a few psychological effects of being raised by a single parent. It is also associated with all kinds of negative behavior. Definitely not something to aspire to.

A. as the child of a single parent, go fuck yourself
B. as the parent of an extremely strong-willed young child, this whole thing is LOL

Why do you say that? No need to resort to personal attacks. I said not ALL single parents. It'd be pretty stupid for me to suggest all single parents, as I was raised by one. The statistics do not lie. Being raised by a single parent, ON AVERAGE, subjects you to higher dropout rates, incarceration rates, and drug use rates.

I can understand people disagreeing with me. That's fine. But there's no reason to be getting all riled up and telling me to fuck myself. I've clashed with people, but have yet to make a single personal attack.

While I can post the actual studies themselves all day, if you don't believe me, just take a look at what even the very liberal California government says:

http://lib.post.ca.gov/Publications/Building%20a%20Career%20Pipeline%20Documents/Safe_Harbor.pdf

70% of gang members, high school dropouts, teen suicides, teen pregnancies and teen substance abusers come from single mother homes.
63% of suicides nationwide are individuals from single-parent families.
75% of children in chemical dependency hospitals are from single-parent families.
More than half of all youths incarcerated in the U.S. lived in one-parent families as a child
Thirty-seven percent of families led by single mothers nationwide live in poverty. Comparatively, only 6.8% of families with married parents live in poverty, according to data from 2009 compiled by the Heritage Foundation.
Consider these dire statistics from single parent households:*
➲  63% of youth suicides (Source: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Bureau of the Census)
➲  90% of all homeless and runaway children
➲  85% of all children that exhibit behavioral disorders (Source: Center for
Disease Control)
➲  80% of rapists motivated with displaced anger (Source: Criminal Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26, 1978.)
➲  71% of all high school dropouts (Source: National Principals Association Report on the State of High Schools.)
➲  75% of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers (Source: Rainbows for All God`s Children.)
➲  70% of juveniles in state-operated institutions (Source: U.S. Dept. of Justice, Special Report, Sept 1988)
➲  85% of all youths sitting in prisons (Source: Fulton County Georgia jail populations, Texas Department of Corrections 1992)
*U.S. Census Bureau, 2009-2011 American Community Surveys, 2012 Condition of Children in Orange County, America’s Families and Living Arrangements: 2012 by Jonathan Vespa and Jamie M. Lewis
When you post information I can't help but wonder if you are ignorant or willfully ignorant.  Someone already addressed this but maybe you need it laid out more obviously.  Single parenthood is correlated with lower income.  Lower income is correlated with the above issues.  It has nothing to do with the genders of the parents involved nor truly with single parenthood.  If a single parent has the money and the time (or a support structure like involved friends or extended family) the issue above are no more than the average two parent family.  And in regards to gender, multiple studies have shown that child of gay parents have equal or better outcomes than children of straight parents.

chrisgermany

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #134 on: April 19, 2017, 07:00:53 AM »
Most kids do not follow the words of their parents but imitate their behavior.
So try to become a model for your future kids.
If they see you making good decisions they will learn how to make good decisions.
If they see you taking one step at a time and following your goals they will learn how to ....

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #135 on: April 19, 2017, 07:04:38 AM »

When you post information I can't help but wonder if you are ignorant or willfully ignorant.  Someone already addressed this but maybe you need it laid out more obviously.  Single parenthood is correlated with lower income.  Lower income is correlated with the above issues.  It has nothing to do with the genders of the parents involved nor truly with single parenthood.  If a single parent has the money and the time (or a support structure like involved friends or extended family) the issue above are no more than the average two parent family.  And in regards to gender, multiple studies have shown that child of gay parents have equal or better outcomes than children of straight parents.
And the studies mentioned took income into consideration. Stop being so condescending. Just because you don't like the outcome of a set of statistics doesn't mean they're not valid.

Regarding being raised by gay parents, I never once mentioned that. Clearly you have a bone to pick, and it's not with me, since I couldn't care less about that issue.

deborah

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #136 on: April 19, 2017, 07:05:21 AM »
I notice that you have avoided answering my post.

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #137 on: April 19, 2017, 07:10:26 AM »
I'm perfectly fine continuing to discuss issues with people. At the very least someone (me, you, or whoever) might take something positive away from it and learn something.

But if this will devolve into "my studies are valid, but if you post them, they're not", then this conversation is pointless.

@deborah I can't always get to everyone's posts, there's a lot of them, and I take time to type out my answers as best as I can. Regarding what you said, I'm not all-in on being Mustachian, particularly on the lifestyle aspect, and I'l fully admit that. My interest in being Mustachian is solely about FIRE. Whatever floats your boat.

And yes, I understand very well that most of the 1% in the world aren't STEM majors. And, yes, I know successful people that aren't STEM majors. But looking at the 1% is looking at the outliers. It's like taking a look at a running back that average 1 yard per carry for 24 carries, and then breaks off a 99 yard run. Sure, he's now run for 4.92 ypc, but that was just inflated by one exception to the rule.

deborah

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #138 on: April 19, 2017, 07:17:33 AM »
I think that mot of the 20% (or wherever you want to draw the line) are not STEM either. Look around you. There are plenty of pretty successful people who don't even have a degree. And remember that the level of money earnings have nothing to do with FIRE abilities - just look at Arebelspy and his wife.

Gin1984

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #139 on: April 19, 2017, 07:24:14 AM »

When you post information I can't help but wonder if you are ignorant or willfully ignorant.  Someone already addressed this but maybe you need it laid out more obviously.  Single parenthood is correlated with lower income.  Lower income is correlated with the above issues.  It has nothing to do with the genders of the parents involved nor truly with single parenthood.  If a single parent has the money and the time (or a support structure like involved friends or extended family) the issue above are no more than the average two parent family.  And in regards to gender, multiple studies have shown that child of gay parents have equal or better outcomes than children of straight parents.
And the studies mentioned took income into consideration. Stop being so condescending. Just because you don't like the outcome of a set of statistics doesn't mean they're not valid.

Regarding being raised by gay parents, I never once mentioned that. Clearly you have a bone to pick, and it's not with me, since I couldn't care less about that issue.
You ignored half of what I said and no, the majority of work regarding single parenthood did not originally consider income and/or support structure.  Given that I got my BS in this field, I am pretty sure I do have more knowledge in it than you.  And I am not being condescending, or at least no where near where I could be.  You are either ignorant or willfully so, when you compare research into the field of child psychology with huffington post articles.  Either you don't understand the difference between peer reviewed data and a news article or you are willfully ignoring the difference.  Those are the two options based on your behavior on here.
And the reason I included the gay parents bit was also your statements on here, see post 115.  You said
Quote
I speak out heavily against kids being raised without both a motherly and fatherly figure around. Why would I subject my kid to all of the negative consequences associated with lack of either?
So I corrected the ignorant statement that you require both a motherly and fatherly figure around.  Two good male or female role models have been shown to be just as well, if not better.
And no, the data you showed was not studies that took into account income.  In fact what you posted was no study at all, it was a  data from a census survey.  Again, showing either ignorance on research into this field or a willful ignorance. 

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #140 on: April 19, 2017, 07:25:14 AM »
I think that mot of the 20% (or wherever you want to draw the line) are not STEM either. Look around you. There are plenty of pretty successful people who don't even have a degree. And remember that the level of money earnings have nothing to do with FIRE abilities - just look at Arebelspy and his wife.
And I agree with that. People can definitely be successful without a STEM degree. I will readily admit that. I'm just going off of averages and high-paying employability in their fields.

And yes, there are also many people that are successful without a degree. If I could go back, I would outright skip college and get into pipe welding, electrical work, or plumbing. The trade unions are basically on their knees pleading to have more skilled tradesmen. I'd be delighted if my kid decided to be a plumber. I know millionaire plumbers, and quite a few that EASILY rake in 6 figures.

Gin1984

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #141 on: April 19, 2017, 07:26:36 AM »
I'm perfectly fine continuing to discuss issues with people. At the very least someone (me, you, or whoever) might take something positive away from it and learn something.

But if this will devolve into "my studies are valid, but if you post them, they're not", then this conversation is pointless.

@deborah I can't always get to everyone's posts, there's a lot of them, and I take time to type out my answers as best as I can. Regarding what you said, I'm not all-in on being Mustachian, particularly on the lifestyle aspect, and I'l fully admit that. My interest in being Mustachian is solely about FIRE. Whatever floats your boat.

And yes, I understand very well that most of the 1% in the world aren't STEM majors. And, yes, I know successful people that aren't STEM majors. But looking at the 1% is looking at the outliers. It's like taking a look at a running back that average 1 yard per carry for 24 carries, and then breaks off a 99 yard run. Sure, he's now run for 4.92 ypc, but that was just inflated by one exception to the rule.
Again, it is not about the fact that your studies are invalid but that you are not posting studies.  Or understanding why they are not actually studies. 

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #142 on: April 19, 2017, 07:30:04 AM »
Given that I got my BS in this field, I am pretty sure I do have more knowledge in it than you.
And this is where I make my exit. Your entire post is based on a logical fallacy. The volumes of studies on the subject back up the claims that being raised by a single parent, whether or not it's due to poverty, is not an ideal environment for raising a child.

It doesn't mean I hate single mothers, or think they can't be successful. It's just going by AVERAGES. I don't see at all why my claims about single parent households are being objected to. There's a long list of studies proving it.

And I know I did use the word afterwords, but I wasn't trying to suggest they were actual studies. I said in that post, "while I can post the actual studies themselves all day". Now, do I consider myself an expert in the field? Obviously not. But to suggest that single parenthood is ideal for the kid (because the only alternative is that it's not) is ridiculous.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 07:34:36 AM by MrMonkeyMoustache »

Gin1984

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #143 on: April 19, 2017, 07:39:44 AM »
Given that I got my BS in this field, I am pretty sure I do have more knowledge in it than you.
And this is where I make my exit. Your entire post is based on a logical fallacy. The volumes of studies on the subject back up the claims that being raised by a single parent, whether or not it's due to poverty, is not an ideal environment for raising a child.

It doesn't mean I hate single mothers, or think they can't be successful. It's just going by AVERAGES. I don't see at all why my claims about single parent households are being objected to. There's a long list of studies proving it.

And I know I did use the word afterwords, but I wasn't trying to suggest they were actual studies. I said in that post, "while I can post the actual studies themselves all day". Now, do I consider myself an expert in the field? Obviously not. But to suggest that single parenthood is ideal for the kid (because the only alternative is that it's not) is ridiculous.
That is not a true statement.  Single parenthood is not the causal factor for lower success rates for children.  Poverty is and single parenthood is correlated with poverty.  You don't seen to understand the difference between the two and as I stated before, research article that account for income show no difference in success based on parent structure assuming a support structure.  You keep stating false statements and THAT is why I said you were either ignorant or willfully so.  Or I could say you are liar, that is another option.

MrDelane

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #144 on: April 19, 2017, 07:44:39 AM »
I'm not certain you'll ever be able to guide your children's passion (and I know that isn't what you're saying, but recognizing that is an important thing).  But what you can do, as others have suggested, is guide their values through example.  Being 'mustachian' is not necessarily about going into a STEM field - it is about being conscious of the consequences of your choices today on your future.  Focus on being transparent about money, teaching them about investing, banking, credit and the importance of living below their means.  Teach them about savings rates and the power of a high income combined with a high savings rate.  They will connect the dots, they will see the risk and reward... and eventually they will decide for themselves if their passion is worth the risk or not.

In the same way many here have different asset allocations because we all have different risk tolerances, many here went into different career paths because we had different interests as well as risk tolerances.

...

My point is - I wouldn't focus so much on the specific career path or interest, because it will most likely be very much out of your control.  I would put my focus on the core values that you hope to instill in your children, and support the particular choices as well as you can.

« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 02:11:27 PM by MrDelane »

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #145 on: April 19, 2017, 07:46:47 AM »
Given that I got my BS in this field, I am pretty sure I do have more knowledge in it than you.
And this is where I make my exit. Your entire post is based on a logical fallacy. The volumes of studies on the subject back up the claims that being raised by a single parent, whether or not it's due to poverty, is not an ideal environment for raising a child.

It doesn't mean I hate single mothers, or think they can't be successful. It's just going by AVERAGES. I don't see at all why my claims about single parent households are being objected to. There's a long list of studies proving it.

And I know I did use the word afterwords, but I wasn't trying to suggest they were actual studies. I said in that post, "while I can post the actual studies themselves all day". Now, do I consider myself an expert in the field? Obviously not. But to suggest that single parenthood is ideal for the kid (because the only alternative is that it's not) is ridiculous.
That is not a true statement.  Single parenthood is not the causal factor for lower success rates for children.  Poverty is and single parenthood is correlated with poverty.  You don't seen to understand the difference between the two and as I stated before, research article that account for income show no difference in success based on parent structure assuming a support structure.  You keep stating false statements and THAT is why I said you were either ignorant or willfully so.  Or I could say you are liar, that is another option.
I've read studies that DO find statistically-significant outcomes when income is considered. If you have studies that claim otherwise, I'd be interested in seeing them. I'll give them a read, and see what they have to offer. I'd be willing to admit that I was wrong.

But even if what you're saying is true, that these are linked to poverty (which I know they are), but not single parent households, single parent households are still linked to poverty, which leads to those outcomes. So either way you skin it, whether it's due to poverty or not, the end result is that under single parent households, kids have worse outcomes.

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #146 on: April 19, 2017, 08:01:29 AM »
And I know people in this thread believe I'm trying to control my GF and control my future kids. That's not at all what this thread is about. Just like with the original idea in the OP, and with my talk about single mothers, I KNOW I can't control a kid, so I'm just looking for ways to effectively get through to them so that their chances of success are as high as possible.

That's also why I like to discuss these things so far into the future. For example, I truly feel like the ideal environment for a child is one with a loving mother and father. I'd never subject my child to a divorce. So I discuss these things. Make sure me and my GF are on the same page. I want to increase the odds of success, that's all.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #147 on: April 19, 2017, 08:44:09 AM »

and i don't think there are negative consequences to one parent households as it refers to a gendered presence.
usually, a one parent household suffers from a scarcity of tangible resources: energy and money.
There are quite a few psychological effects of being raised by a single parent. It is also associated with all kinds of negative behavior. Definitely not something to aspire to.

A. as the child of a single parent, go fuck yourself
B. as the parent of an extremely strong-willed young child, this whole thing is LOL

Why do you say that? No need to resort to personal attacks. I said not ALL single parents. It'd be pretty stupid for me to suggest all single parents, as I was raised by one. The statistics do not lie. Being raised by a single parent, ON AVERAGE, subjects you to higher dropout rates, incarceration rates, and drug use rates.

I can understand people disagreeing with me. That's fine. But there's no reason to be getting all riled up and telling me to fuck myself. I've clashed with people, but have yet to make a single personal attack.

Because you made a sweeping, unqualified generalization about an entire class of people. Telling you to go fuck yourself isn't an attack on your character either. You're clearly out of your depth, but don't know it. This isn't me riled up, slightly amused maybe.

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #148 on: April 19, 2017, 09:06:49 AM »
Somehow I can't pull myself away from this thread.

Mr. MM, can I make a suggestion?   Here and over the next few years, you (and your kids) might benefit from you developing your storytelling skills.   You have had some challenges in your young life -- growing up in a rough environment with a single parent, making a poor choice about where to go to school and how to finance it, buying the wrong car, etc.   Those experiences have contributed to your strongly held beliefs about what kind of education track and career path your future kids should follow.  You try to back it up with a bunch of talk about averages and trends, but to be honest it isn't very compelling.   

Give us (and your kids) the back story.  Something that will keep them on the edge of their seats, waiting to see what happens on the hero's journey.  It will be more interesting, and probably more effective.   For example, if you end up getting your police officer job, I can envision you driving down the highway with some kid in the back of the car who is headed down the road to trouble.  A good story about how you turned your own life around that builds rapport between you and helps him see you actually care about people may help stop his slide.  Maybe you become his mentor, follow up with him, make sure he stays in school.  The story is the hook, not the statistics or generalizations or other forms of talking down to him (which are just more likely to make him dig his heels in).

If you want an example of how compelling a good story can be, hop over to WhiteTrashCash's journal -- I probably don't agree with him on a lot of issues, but boy, that guy has got me interested in his story/perspective because he is a master of narrative.  And has a really good story to tell.  I will always point anyone I run into who is struggling to his journal, because it is like a beacon that says "you can do this, you can overcome the challenges and make a better life for yourself."
Excellent post, and I can't say I disagree with any of it. I want my child to understand my story (even if it's not as great as others'), and be able to learn and grow from it.

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Give it a try.  I'd personally like to hear more of your back story.  What was the deal with football and the student loans?
Alright. I have no problems telling my story. Long read, here it goes. Basically, had debilitating social anxiety disorder all throughout my life. Didn't really have any friends, and often skipped school just because it was so overwhelming. Football gave me a purpose. I'd go to school and suffer just so I could play football, and hopefully go to the next level. Ended becoming really good friends with a lot of the guys, and my proudest moment was when I was named the team captain my junior year. It was all great. 5 games in, and I was already locked in as the all-conference pick at my position (LG). Then suddenly, halfway through that year, I tore my left ACL and MCL. It sucked, but I came back. I worked my butt off, and moved on. Going great again. At least for me. My school hadn't won a single game the entire time I'd been there. Until the 8th game of my senior season. We were up by just 2 points late in the game, and I was playing NT. It was 4th and 3, and it was the other's team last chance. I ended up making the stop to seal the game. I felt AWESOME. Until I tried to stand up. The pain was worse than anything I've ever had in my entire life. The trainers went over to do the Lachmann test on my left knee. Nothing. Then they got a depressed look on their faces. I now did it to my other knee. Tore my right ACL, MCL, meniscus, bruised a bone, and a micro fracture of my femur. After the game, asked my coach, "I'm never going to play football again, am I?" And then coach said, "no son, I'm sorry, you're not." I cried all night, and quickly fell back into depression. Started missing school again, and my anxiety got worse than ever. I missed my final exams, and my final GPA went from being a 3.7 at the start of my senior year to a 2.3 by graduation. I went from being 5'11" 185 to 296 pounds. I sat at home and just played video games all day. Then I got a call from a powerhouse D3 college that said they'd give me a chance. I quickly got on it, and started working out again. Didn't care that it was a private uni, and didn't care about the cost. Just about football. My depression was still there, but I finally had a purpose again. I was so excited to finally get into my first college football game, it was amazing! The first play, our QB threw an INT, I, a 296 pound man, ran down the safety at the 15 yardline or so, and forced and recovered the fumble. Most important play I've ever made, even though we still won by about 50 points.

All was well the next few games, got a few plays here and there. Then, I had to make the phone call. "Mom, don't freak out..." Right knee again, cyclops lesions, torn meniscus, partially torn MCL, and developed osteoarthritis. Thought for sure my playing days were over. Quit the team, and dedicated my time to building myself back up. Ended up losing 93 pounds that year, getting all the way down to 203.

Transferred schools the next year to a D2 school, didn't play sports, and kept my head down. Did alright my first year. Second year, social anxiety was at its peak. I literally went to maybe 5 classes combined for both the Fall and Spring semesters. My college GPA was demolished, just like my HS GPA was. I dropped out, and started working full-time, having no real path or purpose.

It was at that time, I started to really discover myself. I started to be more outgoing, and I learned to communicate with people. I knew that working at a minimum wage job was not the life for me, so I decided to go back to college 2 years later. More than that, I joined their football team in 2013. At that point, it wasn't even about playing anymore, it was about proving to myself that I could still do it. I ended up making the team, and quit shortly after, as playing was never my goal. I still think about what would happen if I didn't quit, but it just wasn't what I wanted to do anymore. It was more about showing those that said I couldn't do it that I could.

Switched my major to Computer Science the next year, and that's where I'm at now. It took a lot of research, and plenty of frustrating night of wondering what my true passion was, but, needless to say, I've made the right decision. I absolutely LOVE programming. It's awesome.

Now, I have gotten back to about 285, but I'm no longer sad and depressed about it. I know quite a bit about dieting and lifting, and have begun a routine and diet plan that will have me slowly, but surely, getting back down to where I know I can be. It's not an if, it's a certainty that I'll get back down to 205.


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Tell us more about your friends who ended up involved in drugs and crime -- why did they go that way and you didn't?
To be honest, I'm not quite sure. I was a pretty bad kid when I was 10 or 11, but despite all of my friends being in gangs and doing drugs, I never once had the desire to touch them. I guess it was from seeing how crazy it made my father. I think what ultimately made them flip was pressure. In south Florida, it's sort of like prison in some areas. If you're not in a gang, you at least better be friends with one. Random white boys not associated with gangs would often get jumped just for being white. That kind of pressure made a lot of kids cave. Even in a wealthy area (Palm Beach County).

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What were the challenges you faced growing up with a single mom?
Not as much as many, honestly. My mom made a good living, and we had a lot of familial support. She gave us anything we ever wanted, and more.

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Why are you interested in pursuing a career as a police officer, and how does your other goal of getting a computer science degree interface with that?
Seeing what gang warfare and poverty did to my friends was a real big motivating factor. Another is that I believe I'd be good at it. I can see other peoples' perspectives very well, so I can come into high-adrenaline situations, and really calm things down. Have always been able to do that. Most of all, I like the structure and rules. I like being able to make important decisions that have impacts on real people.

Computer Science doesn't really have to do with my decision to become a police officer. I want to do both, honestly. But I would not mind segueing my degree into computer forensics.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 09:11:19 AM by MrMonkeyMoustache »

LiquidLen

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Re: How To Convince GF To Be More Mustachian For Future Children?
« Reply #149 on: April 19, 2017, 09:26:09 AM »
just get them to be already financially independent by 18 (like everyone can if they learn to be frugal from a young age and put every penny they make into the stock market) and he can pursue his dreams to be a fashion blogger/trailer park minimalist fan fiction music composer and be done with it. no?