The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: gillstone on September 26, 2013, 11:07:54 AM
-
On a recent visit my father and I discussed his parent’s estate which includes several properties in the US and Canada, heirlooms of significant value and multiple investment accounts. My father has never been good at saving money. For example he’s 57 years old, currently makes 9.50/hr and has no retirement; but has several watches worth over $500, a new tablet and smartphone he doesn’t know how to use with a data plan that costs an arm and a leg, and a new car with a loan on it.
He sees the estate (at least the portion coming to him) as a means to bring himself back to the upper class lifestyle he had as a kid. I see it lasting a couple years before he burns through it with fancy cars, expensive watches, and unnecessary luxuries.
I want to convince him that the estate is more a means to cementing a stable middle class living for the rest of his life through sale of assets, prudent investing and frugal living. Is it too late to convince him to stop buying stupid shit and take what he expects and live frugally?
-
Yes, it probably is too late.
Now, lest I come across as a trolling smart a$$, let me say that I'm in the same boat as you pertaining to my mom, my brothers and sisters, and just about everyone I care about. After a long time, I've finally been able to stop taking their problems on as my own. Lead a horse to water.......
Do you have the stomache to not help him financially in 10 - 15 years when he'll need it?
-
I hope it's not too late. It sure is tough to make people change age-old habits. My dad is much the same way, but my mom saves on his behalf, so he's safe (and lucky!). For your dad, perhaps something a little formal might wake him up. Maybe a basic powerpoint with his personal financial situation and some cute photos to fancy it up might get his attention. Something that summarizes sweetly where he might be headed if he spends on watches (photo) and cars (photo), leading to debt and small apartment (photo), and then where he could be if he saves (mortgage free house, good food, etc.)
I find that telling people something out loud often goes in one ear and out the other, but if you can show them something written down (but not boring!) they believe more easily.
Good luck!
-
Is your grandfather still alive, and/or reasoning?
I ask, because I wonder if he worries about similar things with all his children. If so, there are a myriad of trust structures that could be set in place which would allow him to pass assets like these down, while simultaneously assuring that his children would be able to draw on the assets in a sustainable, long-term, even multi-generational way.
Obviously, you need to judge how to navigate your family dynamics how you deem best. Something with so many emotions like this needs to be done carefully, with good communication between everyone... going "above someone's head" and messing with something they consider their business, can definitely backfire... You wouldn't want all your aunts and uncles to get pissed and stop inviting you to christmas because you screwed up their inheritance :-)
Of course, if your grandfather has recently passed away or isn't really right for such a conversation, then that's a whole other ballgame.
In any case, your best bet is probably to do what you can to show your father how keeping it invested and not using it now, can allow him to live a long long long time without working. If you can convince him that taking a specific series of steps will allow him to live without money worries forever, then maybe he'll see the light of continuing to live at something only slightly above that level.
In that regard, giving him a specific plan is much better than advice like "don't spend your money". To someone who always spends money... that's useless advice. He knows this... it just never works for him.
Better would be: "Pull out 3% immediately when you get the inheritance (aka money for this year), then invest the rest in these specific types of funds, and automatically pull out ONLY 3% in each future year". This might give him exactly the steps he needs to feel that he can control it. (or 1% each quarter, maybe? So he doesn't have to deal with the temptation all year not to spend a giant lump sum). Make sure he understands you will help him pick the right funds and help him automate the payments and taxes and etc.
Try to focus on what he GAINS by following those steps (automatic money, comfort, security, lasting freedom), not what he sacrifices to get it. If you can convince him it's the way rich people stay rich, you're on the right path. :-)
I wish you luck.
~ DaftShadow
-
I guess my advice would be to start the conversation by asking him how he plans to manage his inheritance and then LISTEN to what he has to say. This way you can weave in questions for him to ponder. Maybe something like, "so if you do that, then how/when would you expect to retire?" I would just keep probing with more "wonder type" questions that aren't accusing. This way he comes to the conclusions himself and he's not "getting advice" from his child.
And, at the end of the day, you need to know that he's responsible for his decisions and you'll have to define how far you'll go to help when the time comes.