The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: lifejoy on August 14, 2015, 11:38:42 AM
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I was with a Mr. Normal McSpenderson and now I am with Mr. MMM Incarnate. Seriously, my spouse has gotten so on board, that he's now more MMM than me! Anyway, I know there are a lot of threads about how to help your SO "see the light" - so, this is what worked for me. It took a year or two to see some major progress, but the baby steps REALLY added up.
1. Read MMM and send a few articles to your spouse with the caption, "This is awesome! Thought you might get a kick out of it." Case in point: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/04/18/news-flash-your-debt-is-an-emergency/ (http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/04/18/news-flash-your-debt-is-an-emergency/)
2. Be active on the forum, and regale your spouse with tales from the "Overheard at Work" thread: http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work/?topicseen (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work/?topicseen).
3. Live in Canada (or make your IP Address say that you do) and watch lots of "Til Debt Do Us Part". http://www.slice.ca/video/#til-debt-do-us-part/video (http://www.slice.ca/video/#til-debt-do-us-part/video) You know how when you're watching a show that your SO isn't into, but it's on, and they can't help but catch parts of it? Well this show is GOLD. It's all about couples who need to manage their money better. The host, Gail Vaz-Oxlade, makes them live on cash and within their means to get their lives back on track. She's amazing, and she was a big influence on me and my SO.
4. If you get really obsessed with Gail Vaz-Oxlade, also watch her shows "Money Moron" and "Princess".
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/editorialhub/production/2014/05/Gail_Vaz_Oxlade.jpg)
5. Need more? Her radio show is pretty good: http://www.newstalk1010.com/shows/gailvazoxlade.aspx (http://www.newstalk1010.com/shows/gailvazoxlade.aspx) But if you want something more 100% finance related, the podcasts from Radical Personal Finance are EXCELLENT. http://radicalpersonalfinance.com/archive/ (http://radicalpersonalfinance.com/archive/)
6. If your SO is a reader, make sure you take these books out from the library: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/78428.Your_Money_or_Your_Life (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/78428.Your_Money_or_Your_Life)
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/900892.A_Random_Walk_Down_Wall_Street?from_search=true&search_version=service (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/900892.A_Random_Walk_Down_Wall_Street?from_search=true&search_version=service)
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/178930.The_Overworked_American?from_search=true&search_version=service (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/178930.The_Overworked_American?from_search=true&search_version=service)
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/178931.The_Overspent_American?from_search=true&search_version=service
7. Read those books yourself, and leave them around the house. Or, if appropriate, tell your SO that this book you read was REALLY GOOD, and you think they'd really like it. Bonus points if you can ensure that it's the only book they have with them on a long plane trip. Guaranteed they'll take a peek! ;)
8. Do you have a cleaning service? You do now. It's YOU. Cancel anything you're paying for, and STEP IT UP. You are now the cleaning person. I don't care about fairness, or whatever - if you are motivating this person to save money, you gotta show that you're willing to do the dirty work. Literally. Let it be known in a nice way, not a passive aggressive way, that you care a lot about your savings and it's worth it to you to do the cleaning yourself.
9. Same goes for meals. Want to spend less money on eating out? Well, get used to cooking. Maybe your SO will help, maybe not. But you gotta take initiative and lead by example. This site is a good place to start: http://www.budgetbytes.com/ (http://www.budgetbytes.com/)
10. Make it one of your primary goals that food will NOT be thrown out. Shop more carefully, plan meals more carefully. You do not throw away money in this household.
11. Dates: do you live in a fun city that puts on a lot of free events? Seek those out! If you live in a boring city, well, take action. Invite people over for board games, or host a wine and cheese night - potluck style. Take your SO out on a romantic walk. Plan a scavenger hunt if you have lots of spare time and you're feeling ambitious! Make it a fun challenge to think of fun free dates, instead of just going to the movies ten times a month.
12. Cell phone bill. Slash yours. Slash it to hell! Get that number down as low as humanly possible. Tell them how relieved you are to not be spending so much on your cell bill; enquire how they feel about their bill - are they getting a good value? Baby steps. Hopefully they will come to the conclusion on their own that there is some wiggle room.
13. Plan together about retirement options. This is when you present the FIRE dream. Tailor this to your SO and how they will handle such thinking.
14. If you can find them a real-life FIRE role model, that is good! It shows them it can be done, and they can see that person living the life they want instead of slaving away until 65. My SO wanted to "work forever, just like [his] dad" until he met my FIRED dad, and thought to himself... hmm, this early retirement stuff looks pretty darn sweet.
15. Try out You Need a Budget (YNAB): http://www.youneedabudget.com/ (http://www.youneedabudget.com/)
16. Try out Mint: https://www.mint.com/ (https://www.mint.com/)
17. Or, make your own budget in your own way.
18. YNAB and Mint worked for us to a point, but the thing that REALLY works was the jars, a la Gail Vaz-Oxlade: http://www.gailvazoxlade.com/articles/budgeting/magic_jars.html (http://www.gailvazoxlade.com/articles/budgeting/magic_jars.html)
You budget with cash in jars. It's very visual. Works well for me. My SO really dislikes using cash, so we agreed to do it for one month and it has had lasting effects!
(http://smartcanucks.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/SC-cashjars-500x277.png)
Speaking of visual...
19. Colour in your debt or savings progress: http://www.debriefdaily.com/lifestyle/adult-colouring-in/ (http://www.debriefdaily.com/lifestyle/adult-colouring-in/)
(http://cdn.debriefdaily.com/uploads/2015/06/blog-how-it-started-main-1.jpg)
20. If you're still using credit cards, put a picture or a note taped onto your VISA that is a reminder of your goal, be it DEBT FREE FOREVER or FIRED BEFORE 40. Something like that. Or a picture of palm trees! :)
21. Employ this awesome tactic when your SO wants to buy something insane, like a brand new Jeep:
Step 1. Say, "You know, I've been thinking about it, and you were right. It really is time to replace your vehicle. It's too unreliable, you've put up with repairs for a long time, and you deserve something better." [It's important to say "You were right" -- don't leave that out]
Step 2. Say, "You've said you want a 2012 Jeep Wrangler -- any reasons you want that car in particular?"
Step 3. LISTEN. Don't say a word to refute anything about the 2012 JW. Listen to everything she says, pay close attention to the reasons she gives. Instead, nod your head, and say things like, "I see" or "That makes sense." If she seems to run out of reasons, ask her "Anything else?" Then listen some more.
Step 4. After she's done giving reasons, say "Okay." Then take some time on your own to think about it. This tells her you listened and will seriously give it consideration. If she presses you to give an answer about it, tell her you'd like a little time to digest what she's said and to look for some ways to get her what she wants.
Step 5. Look around for vehicles that meet the criteria she gave you AND that are cost-effective. Come up with several options for her to consider in addition to the JW. Example: She says "reliability" is her number one concern, you find the Consumer Reports pick for the most reliable car in your price range.
Step 6. Present her with the options, and include the JW as an option. Show her the pros/cons of each vehicle and how they might meet her criteria, and of course include cost in the equation. Now, she should be seeing you as presenting an objective set of choices, not a sales pitch in favor of the car you want her to pick. LET HER MAKE THE CHOICE.
Step. 7. If she chooses the JW despite it being inferior (and more expensive) to the other choices, tell her you want to find a way for the two of you to pay for it without going into debt, decreasing your retirement savings, hampering college for your kids, etc. Ask her what she thinks you both should do -- earn extra income at a second job? Cut expenses somewhere else? Give up some other future purchase or expense like the spring break trip? Make it clear that you want to get her the vehicle she wants, but that there's no free lunch. She'll have to consider tradeoffs if she's going to pick an expensive car "just because."
(Sorry - couldn't find the original posting of this, but the advice is solid gold!)
22. Embrace minimalism. Being happy with what you have and wanting less is a big key to personal fulfillment, living in a smaller space, and saving all the monies! Some great starting points: http://mnmlist.com/archive/ (http://mnmlist.com/archive/) , http://www.theminimalists.com/archives/#popular (http://www.theminimalists.com/archives/#popular), http://www.becomingminimalist.com/ (http://www.becomingminimalist.com/)
23. Cut your own hair. I will accept no excuses on this point. If you're a man, you should find a time in your life when you don't need to look SUPER PRETTY and use that as an opportunity to let someone wield a buzzer to your head. There are a million youtube videos that show you how it's done, and if you get someone to practice and do it for you, you're SET. I've been cutting my husband's hair for years, and he looks pretty fab. For my own hair, I'm getting my hairdresser friend to show me how to cut it, but there are also "HAIR MODEL WANTED" opportunities available for the brave. Also, most of my friends get about one haircut per YEAR, so if you can last that long and go to a cheapo place, I guess $10 is not the worst waste. Unless you're a hair model, I see no reason that we should be spending $60 every three months. Yep.
24. For the ladies: explore these lady product options: http://lunapads.com/ (http://lunapads.com/) and http://divacup.com/ (http://divacup.com/). If you find a cheap and reusable option for razors, PLEASE let me know.
25. Ladies: learn how to paint your own nails. No one should be paying for manis and pedis; that will just make it 10x more special when somebody gets you one as a gift! Get a nail buffer from the dollar store, it'll make a big difference. http://www.sallybeauty.com/Nail-Buffer-Block/SBS-707914,default,pd.html#start=1 (http://www.sallybeauty.com/Nail-Buffer-Block/SBS-707914,default,pd.html#start=1)
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26. If you're in debt, you should really be taking a break from drinking. Or if you do drink, it should only ever be with alcohol you bought at the cheapest place possible, AKA NOT at a restaurant. One life hack is to host an awesome party where you know people will bring you booze :D and then make that last as long as freakin' possible.
27. Host clothing swaps. Never buy clothing again. General layout, but adjust as necessary: http://www.oprah.com/style/Clothing-Swap-How-to-Host-a-Clothing-Swap (http://www.oprah.com/style/Clothing-Swap-How-to-Host-a-Clothing-Swap)
(https://urbanbandit.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/ivy-clothing-swap.jpg)
28. If you're going to the clubs, find out how to get in for free. Often this means getting on the guest list (only requires foresight and planning) or arriving super early, like before 9pm. WORTH IT. Spend the whole night drinking water, and you're golden!
29. Essentially, demolish your personal spending as much as humanly possible. And now that you are this shining example of mustachian bliss and your SO has noticed the extra piles of money around, one would hope that they will take a page out of your book and start to move in the same general direction.
30. Read this blog from start to finish: http://livingafi.com/ (http://livingafi.com/)
31. Get familiar with calculators: http://www.firecalc.com/ (http://www.firecalc.com/) and https://networthify.com/calculator/earlyretirement?income=50000&initialBalance=0&expenses=25000&annualPct=5&withdrawalRate=4 (https://networthify.com/calculator/earlyretirement?income=50000&initialBalance=0&expenses=25000&annualPct=5&withdrawalRate=4)
32. Get familiar with your local library. Make it like a cute, old-timey date! Get your library cards, and take out some books, magazines, or some libraries even have video games... explore! Everything at the library (in most communities) is FREEEEEEEEEE. How amazing is that? If you haven't seen Fight Club yet would like to re-watch Fight Club for the billionth time, this would be a good option to sign it out and be reminded that we're all materialistic whores. Ha!
(https://fightclubwrd.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/fight-club-5001.jpg)
(http://gentlemint.com/media/images/2013/05/21/5d69f02b.jpg.505x650_q85.jpg)
(http://www.thetruegeneralist.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/fightclub.png)
Ok, I'm a little obsessed with Fight Club.
33. If you and your SO are debating a money matter, sometimes it is helpful to get a third opinion. Post on the "Ask a Mustachian" section of the forum, and get some solid, objective, advice! Just take it with a grain of salt, because only you and your SO have a complete picture of the situation.
34. While you're at it, post a case study and get ripped apart kindly helped by the awesome people on here. http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/how-to-write-a-'case-study'-topic/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/how-to-write-a-'case-study'-topic/)
35. Go to a MMM Meet-up. If there isn't one in your area, start one! Being around like-minded people will help you and your SO feel more comfortable about your goals. (These meetups get advertised in the forum, so search your location or make a new post about it!)
36. If you're considering marriage, consider an alternative engagement ring. Moissanite is a material I've been very impressed with. Check it out! 1/10th of the cost of diamonds, with verrrrry similar properties. http://ringmaven.com/2015/07/07/she-wants-a-diamond-how-to-get-one-for-cheaper/ (http://ringmaven.com/2015/07/07/she-wants-a-diamond-how-to-get-one-for-cheaper/)
37. Now that you're a minimalist, you've probably gotten rid of all your crap, right? (Bonus points if you sold it). Time to move to a smaller home! Make sure you get on the library wait list for this awesome book: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22318578-the-life-changing-magic-of-tidying-up (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22318578-the-life-changing-magic-of-tidying-up) And while you're waiting, join the Konmari Adventures group on Facebook, and look at the very inspiring before/after pics of people getting rid of junk they don't need: https://www.facebook.com/groups/KonmariAdventures/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/KonmariAdventures/)
(http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2015-02/4/14/enhanced/webdr10/enhanced-16528-1423079477-4.jpg)
38. I know you love meat and cheese, but they are $$$$! So read "Eat to Live" and strongly consider putting your money (and your health) towards fruits and veges 90% of the time: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34451.Eat_to_Live (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34451.Eat_to_Live) IT IS SO MUCH CHEAPER!!!
39. On the rare occasion that you just NEED to get out to a restaurant for a date, consider going for JUST a drink, or JUST an appetizer, or sharing an entree. There are so many ways to make eating out affordable (lunch specials on a weekday?) so make it infrequent and planned.
40. If you get given gift cards, put it in your gift budget jar. Ironic, amiright? But ever so useful.
41. This seems too obvious to mention, but I guess I should make sure that if you're using a credit card, you better be getting some epic rewards for that shiznad.
42. Also seemingly obvious: YOU SHOULD NOT BE PAYING BANK FEES. You should not be paying the bank money, to let them use your money. That is insane. If you're a student, free banking is easy to obtain. If you're a working adult, they might be a little shifty-eyed about the idea of free banking, but the second you mention the bank down the street they will suddenly be VERY creative about your options. Trust me. You will definitely be able to find free banking if you have a little moxy and determination. DO IT.
43. Do not nag your SO. This should be a positive experience that will boost you up. If they want to make a purchase that is not in line with the plan, you can say something like, "Well, I don't want to stand in the way of your desires, but I'm a little uncomfortable about this purchase because it would take us further away from our goals." Goals that you discussed together, during step #13 and others.
44. Do not let this turn into a "Parent/Child" relationship. You are equals. You are doing this TOGETHER. And if you're not.... well, there's always a lifehack around it. There is always an Option C.
(http://cdn.meme.am/instances/60649339.jpg)
45. If you want to get really intense about the conversion, read "How to Win Friends and Influence People" and "Switch: How to Change Things When Change is Hard" by Dan and Chip Heath. I have found these two books to be the most useful if you want to manipulate encourage someone to see your way of thinking. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4865.How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4865.How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People) and https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8140252-switch (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8140252-switch)
46. Pick your battles. They want to buy the more expensive toilet paper, and you're penny pinching. Is that really the biggest fish you could fry? Pick your battles wisely. Save your encouragement for changes that will have the biggest positive change.
47. Reaffirm, support, praise, brag! When you SO makes a positive change, be their number one fan!! My SO started taking a lunch to work (because I was making him a lunch to take to work) and I made a visual money tree and put an $8 leaf on the tree every time he brought a lunch to work, to illustrate how much money we were saving. I brag about my SO on the MMM Forum, and praise him to his face. Keep it real, but be specific and appreciative. Change is different for everyone, and is seldom easy.
48. Speaking of lunches, get accustomed to making bigger dinners so that you can bring the leftovers for lunch. Easy, peasy! And if you or your SO are too much of a snob for leftovers, I suggest you start making more delicious dinners so that you can't WAIT to eat it again on day 2!
49. Pamper your spouse, the free way. If your spouse is suffering (and they shouldn't be, because you've been doing all the hard parts) but if they're suffering and adapting to the changes, pamper them. This MMM thing is YOUR idea, and they're being a wonderful person by being the littlest bit open to it. So I want you to tell them, wow hon, I really appreciate you being open to this idea. Let me rub your feet or watch that dumb show you like or spend time with you and your mother or go to the museum you always wanted to check out or DO SOMETHING FOR YOU, THAT YOU LIKE, because I respect and appreciate that you're opening yourself up to MY interests. Just because FIRE and MMM are such obviously amazing things to be interested in, doesn't mean your SO will catch on right away. So make sure you reciprocate by pursuing their interests with renewed vigor.
50. Tailor this process to your spouse. Some people like to read. Get them reading material and have it easily accessible for them. Some people like to watch tv; choose things that might inspire them to become a MMM master. Other people like stats and graphs - there are so many options out there! Really consider the needs of your SO, and how they like to learn. What will appeal to them? A vision board where you lay out your retirement dreams? A jar full of all the money you saved because you stopped paying for a cleaning service? Your toned thighs and calves because you started biking to work six months ago? Yep. Do what works for you, but more importantly, find out what works for them. Your imagination is the only limit, so think outside of the box!
(http://www.lululemon.com/community/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/mylifeinten.jpg)
Good luck! :) And please add ideas below!
Let's recap:
Step One: Lead by example. Are you spending money on something? Can you stop spending money on it, with zero effort required by your SO? THEN DO THAT. NOW. Stop using your SO as an excuse.
Step Two: Positive influence. Introduce them to your new hobby of SAVING ALL THE MONEY SO THAT YOU CAN HAVE FREEDOM. Do it in a way that will speak to them.
Step Three: Plan goals together. And if you both want FIRE, you are able to help them with that. If they don't want FIRE, you can plan to have separate finances or whatever.
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/ef/efa85e98f72df3b00cfb416cd9dae46238ee2fdbf69214ab2534c077452d4d0a.jpg)
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Great list and nice work putting it together. I use several of these tactics to encourage my SO and it does have an effect.
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Fantastic list! I need to follow this!
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I like this=) definitely gonna check out some of those links. There really should be a 'Guides' section of the forum.
Although some of this is advice (22-32) seem to be on how to be mustacian instead of how to convert your SO.
maybe should have been called something like "how to grow your mustache and convince your SO to come along for the ride"
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I still have so many steps I need to work on!
Great list.
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This should be a pinned post! Awesome, and kudos to you for being so smart about converting your husband!
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I like this=) definitely gonna check out some of those links. There really should be a 'Guides' section of the forum.
Although some of this is advice (22-32) seem to be on how to be mustacian instead of how to convert your SO.
maybe should have been called something like "how to grow your mustache and convince your SO to come along for the ride"
You're spot on. I totally started floating away from my original purpose... ha!
Although... I could argue that you can't convert someone unless you're busy being a mustachian yourself ;) Hence, relevant! (Ok, it's a stretch.)
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Great list. My addition is more broad, general philosophy:
Keep it fun (MMM is about appreciating life, not being miserable), and don't OBSESS over money. Yes, think about it and optimize it, but some people hate thinking about it all the time. If your SO is one of these people, tackle the biggest money leaks and try to be zen about the rest. As you acclimatize to your new spending levels, then see if you can work on a couple new things. If you try to accomplish too much at once, it can be overwhelming and sabotage the whole effort. It might slow your path to FIRE by a year, but if you and your SO are still happy and together at the end, I consider that year well spent.
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Awesome, love it!
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Fantastic! I love the upbeat tone. I used to read the FlyLady and I remember her also talking about being positive and leading by example (in this case, with creating a more organized home), even if it seems at first like you're the only one who cares.
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Great list. My addition is more broad, general philosophy:
Keep it fun (MMM is about appreciating life, not being miserable), and don't OBSESS over money. Yes, think about it and optimize it, but some people hate thinking about it all the time. If your SO is one of these people, tackle the biggest money leaks and try to be zen about the rest. As you acclimatize to your new spending levels, then see if you can work on a couple new things. If you try to accomplish too much at once, it can be overwhelming and sabotage the whole effort. It might slow your path to FIRE by a year, but if you and your SO are still happy and together at the end, I consider that year well spent.
Such a great point!
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Bookmarking this in my periodic RE-read folder. One of the best posts I've seen on the forums in a while!
Don't really have much to add though in general you have to heavily exercise Stephen Covey's first habit of "seek first to understand, then to be understood" throughout ALL 50 Steps.
Also, a lot of us end up in the bad habit of always being Judgy McJudgersons about conspicuous consumption. Let that go, especially with your SO.
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Since you asked about cheap reusable razors...
Try dollar shave club (https://www.dollarshaveclub.com/how-it-works) if you still want disposable razors. If not, buy an old fashioned safety razor! There is a short adjustment period to getting used to the single blade, but you can buy the individual blades on ebay (super cheap), and you get a great shave.
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Emphasis on #32. #32 is really all you need, but great list nonetheless!
Awesome work.
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Question for the mods:
I am honoured and flattered that this has become a sticky post! Wondering if it would help more people if it were in the "Ask a Mustachian" section? What do you think?
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Great list!
Here's another fun calculator that was done by a fellow forum member I believe: http://mustachecalc.com/
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Safety razor + razor blades is awesome. If you remove and dry the blade between uses it seems to last forever.
My number-one conversion device would be The Millionaire Next Door by Danko & Stanley. It's the book that persuaded me that I'd foolishly fallen into the Consumption Trap and that it was unwise. Before Millionaire Next Door I thought EVERYBODY had to spend profligately to maintain a standard of living appropriate to the American Way. Really persuasive.
As for actually how to live below your means, The Tightwad Gazette by Amy Dacyzyn is a terrific guide to a new way of thinking, especially for those presently immersed in the buy-now-throw-away-buy-again-tomorrow mindset.
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Love the fight club references.
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In cases you haven't heard of them yet, EPILATORS are a million times better than razors (IMO). I got one a few years ago, and I haven't used a razor since. They rip out the root of the hair, so you only need to use an epilator once a week or so. The regrowth is not prickly, and I find that it isn't very visible until you are seven days out. This is not waxing, which requires at least a quarter-inch of regrowth before it is effective. Also, if you are a lady with dark hair and pale skin (like myself), an epilator produces a much nicer look, as shaving leaves a dark root showing right through pale skin. Anywhere on your body a razor can go, so can an epilator (and further). It does take more time, but it is so much less frequent and doesn't require standing under hot water during the process.
Epilating stops being painful after the first couple times (the root becomes shorter with consistent epilating).
I second the safety razor idea if an epilator isn't for you.
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Love it! Posting to be able to find again
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Safety razor + razor blades is awesome. If you remove and dry the blade between uses it seems to last forever.
My number-one conversion device would be The Millionaire Next Door by Danko & Stanley. It's the book that persuaded me that I'd foolishly fallen into the Consumption Trap and that it was unwise. Before Millionaire Next Door I thought EVERYBODY had to spend profligately to maintain a standard of living appropriate to the American Way. Really persuasive.
As for actually how to live below your means, The Tightwad Gazette by Amy Dacyzyn is a terrific guide to a new way of thinking, especially for those presently immersed in the buy-now-throw-away-buy-again-tomorrow mindset.
+1 for these and add Your Money or Your Life by Vicki Robin and Joe Dominguez.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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I love the list. This is valuable information for any mustachian.
The car example is interesting. I feel that sometimes the reason for needing or wanting something might be caused by a completely unrelated reason. I have seen numerous examples, not necessarily related to my SO btw. These range anywhere from "what would the neighbors think" to being completely unreasonable and extremely stubborn.
The last one happened to me in a study group of 8. A decision had to be made on something and after a 2 hour discussion we ended up voting, the result was 7:1. But the one who voted against did not want to accept the outcome. Since the relationships were not personal we just went against her wishes and told her to stop being an idiot. Thinking about it I think she took it personally since we declined her concept and that was unacceptable to her. Something along the lines of if they reject my concept I have failed.
However the same thing might occur with someone you do care for on a personal level. It's interesting how you would go about solving a stalemate in that case.
Also, step 51: Don't let your SO see this list, they might feel like you are manipulating them.
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Speaking of visual...
19. Colour in your debt or savings progress: http://www.debriefdaily.com/lifestyle/adult-colouring-in/ (http://www.debriefdaily.com/lifestyle/adult-colouring-in/)
This is an excellent guide. I really like #19. For the non-artsy MMM people, DW and I sell a product like this on Etsy. We currently have a 10% coupon off for MMM customers: MMMDISCOUNT
Retirement tree: https://www.etsy.com/listing/267236279/retirement-savings-chart-tree-wall-art?ref=shop_home_active_5
Debt free/savings heart: https://www.etsy.com/listing/267346716/debt-free-tracking-chart-heart-wall-art?ref=shop_home_active_1
Let me know if this is against the rules (I checked but didn't see that it was). I am just attempting to help keep people motivated.
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I know I'm late to the party, but really great post. Thanks.
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Dear lifejoy -- I don't post much here at MMM because so many others do a great job. Your post has changed my life, I have printed it. It took you a long time to put together for us to enjoy. Thank you for helping us to be better spouses. This post put so many things together, I am still blown away. Sometimes it is not easy to figure out how to help your fellow creatures, with this post you have significantly helped a ton of people. Thank you for your thoroughness, thoughtfulness, positive attitude and willingness to share experience with others. Kudos!!
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I have read through this post more than once and I am sure to return to it again. Good wisdom and excellent advice for making the world a better place, one relationship at a time. Thanks lifejoy!
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I just want to emphasize that this post would not have been possible without the wonderful and supportive community here. 100% of the ideas were gleaned from resources online and from books! The rest is just leading by example :D
Best wishes to you all.
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The biggest things for convincing my SO were using YNAB and thinking about whether our spending was making us happier. I think he always associated budgeting with a lot of work and self denial, but once I framed it like that he was on board. We made a budget together that reflected what makes us happiest, and started tracking expenses using YNAB, and now he's constantly looking for ways that we can cut spending. He's told all our friends about budgeting. He says things like, "wow, it's so much more fulfilling to splurge when you saved up for it!". It's been great. I found MMM last Jan, and we've reduced our spending by 25% per month since then. I didn't think we were big spenders before, because we had no debt, but we weren't as careful as we could be, and we were maxing our IRAs but nothing else (which is not bad when you are both grad students). But now we are on our way to buying ourselves some future flexibility, and I couldn't be happier.
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Well done, great thread!
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I just want to emphasize that this post would not have been possible without the wonderful and supportive community here. 100% of the ideas were gleaned from resources online and from books! The rest is just leading by example :D
Best wishes to you all.
This is epic Lifejoy. Thank you! Although the Fight Club stuff was distracting...I couldn't pay attention to what I was reading after that because I had Fight Club quotes swimming in my head.
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I just want to emphasize that this post would not have been possible without the wonderful and supportive community here. 100% of the ideas were gleaned from resources online and from books! The rest is just leading by example :D
Best wishes to you all.
This is epic Lifejoy. Thank you! Although the Fight Club stuff was distracting...I couldn't pay attention to what I was reading after that because I had Fight Club quotes swimming in my head.
Lol... sounds like a good problem to have! ;)
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#51 Be careful what you wish for. I just wanted to pay off our house. Now we're on the early retirement bandwagon and a few years ahead of schedule! And he's the one giving me the books--it's fabulous!
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#51 Be careful what you wish for. I just wanted to pay off our house. Now we're on the early retirement bandwagon and a few years ahead of schedule! And he's the one giving me the books--it's fabulous!
Lol so true! I'm in the same situation... my DH is better than me now!!
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Great list, thank you for posting lifejoy!
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Great list, thank you for posting lifejoy!
It was my pleasure. Feel free to add to it!
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Awesome list, thank you! I've been steadily converting my SO... almost there :).
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This is fantastic! I need some help on #50. My SO loves to watch TV, especially those reality-type home shows on cable (OK, don't judge the judgypants -- we pay for cable). Her particular anti-mustachian vices are shopping (she does it for fun) and accumulating tons of stuff. Anyone have advice on shows that show the perils of these? Reality shows about people who spend themselves into oblivion, accumulate homes full of junk, etc etc? If I start watching them I'm sure she will, too. And it could be really helpful in converting her.
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This is fantastic! I need some help on #50. My SO loves to watch TV, especially those reality-type home shows on cable (OK, don't judge the judgypants -- we pay for cable). Her particular anti-mustachian vices are shopping (she does it for fun) and accumulating tons of stuff. Anyone have advice on shows that show the perils of these? Reality shows about people who spend themselves into oblivion, accumulate homes full of junk, etc etc? If I start watching them I'm sure she will, too. And it could be really helpful in converting her.
I haven't seen particular shows, though I have heard of "Hoarders," but she can look at the example of our neighbors when I was growing up. Every single year they had garage sales full of really neat stuff, and most of it looked brand-new! I found out later, as an adult, that this was because they were constantly shopping and buying stuff. As-seen-on-TV junk, clothes, etc. They had too much to use. They kept up with it, but the Mrs. always had health problems, so when the Mr. became disabled by horrible back issues and forced into early retirement, their finances quickly spiraled downward. Now they physically and financially can't keep up the upkeep on their house and yard. My father and brother help them with yardwork like trimming shrubs, mowing grass, cutting down trees that might fall on my parents' property, etc., but it would be a much bigger thing for my family to help them fix the roof, the broken-off shutter, or the gable vents. Their adult sons don't help much. And when one of their siblings gave them a large monetary gift, they used it as a downpayment on a new car. *sigh*
You two could set a budget for shopping (clothes, home goods?). You two could agree that any non-crucial purchase requires sitting on it for a week to think. Maybe she doesn't need to discuss with you buying a new dress/coffeepot/whatever, but she has to wait before purchasing it. A lot of people enjoy browsing stores without purchasing, and maybe she would as well. This might also sound better coming from her sister or a friend, if you have already talked to her about it in the past.
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Thank you for the tip on the Canadian shows. Princess Season 1 Episode 5 showed pretty clearly how the mind of a taker works. On the show, she's supposed to be making a plan for how she is going to pay off her debt. Instead, from 12:00 to 12:40 she pretty much says that she's not giving back the car she "borrowed" from her aunt (even though aunt has asked for it back and pays the insurance, maintenance, and even has had to pay her parking tickets!) She has borrowed various sums from different people but really doesn't think she should have to pay back anyone in her family and she says it explicitly.
I hope her boyfriend had the sense to bail out on that relationship. He can find another hottie who will not drive him into bankruptcy. Some of the princesses use this show as a true wake up call, but this one did not.
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This is fantastic! I need some help on #50. My SO loves to watch TV, especially those reality-type home shows on cable (OK, don't judge the judgypants -- we pay for cable). Her particular anti-mustachian vices are shopping (she does it for fun) and accumulating tons of stuff. Anyone have advice on shows that show the perils of these? Reality shows about people who spend themselves into oblivion, accumulate homes full of junk, etc etc? If I start watching them I'm sure she will, too. And it could be really helpful in converting her.
See if you can watch "Princess" "Money Moron" or "Til Debt Do Us Part" starring Gail Vaz-Oxlade. The show is Canadian and can be watched on slice.ca if you or your IP address are Canadian. Other options might be to read "the life changing magic of tidying be up" which is all about minimalism. Good luck!
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There is also a show called Consumed: http://www.hgtv.ca/consumed/ (http://www.hgtv.ca/consumed/). It's also Canadian so I suspect the same trick about IP addresses would have to be used to watch it online.
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I love this. Thank you.
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I particularly loved #19 because I enjoy coloring (I'm right handed and try to color worth my left).
I have been talking to my man about early retirement and he's convinced I'll be bored out of my mind when I hit my financial independence numbers. I do plan on doing pro bono work when I retire early. I've already started to with a nonprofit in my neighborhood.
In 2017, We're going to do a trial run to see if we can live off of 1 income. He's self-employed and we're not married, probably never will get married. I'm curious though how much couples save in taxes by having that piece of paper.
In 2019, I'm going to do a sabbatical but he'll keep working. I'm very excited for this as I've been working on a book for years and will finally have undivided attention on it.
We've started drinking at home and sticking to appetizers. Blue apron really helped us to cut down on food waste and now we just get veggies and fruit from the bodega when we are actually going to use it day of.
Another way we've saved money is by shopping local - grocery shopping for a week's worth of food at a really good market a couple subway stops away, rather than a cab away. Buying from a store rather than ordering on Amazon. Going to smalll businesses the price can be higher but I find the quality a bit better than chain stores.
I also now use the flexible spending account for my healthcare. I spend quite a bit on therapy and meds and this has saved us a lot of money. Luckily my bf is completely healthy!
I love your list and I'm sure you have even more ideas!
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I like the list except the point where you become your own maid. :(
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Someone else on the forum recommended I look at this post (thank you pbkmaine) after I wrote about me and my SO in my journal. I saw this post last week, it is awesome.
I have a strong reaction to this post, completely and totally positive for about a second... then I start running into my own thoughts about my situation being "hard"...
AT PRESENT, HERE ARE SOME OF THE CHALLENGES:
---I'm fairly sure that my wife thinks not spending is the same as being broke. She seems to associate spending with pleasure, and saving
with pain or self-denial, lack (How do I shift this for her? For me, saving and not spending is fucking fun!)
---SO seems to need to buy things, even when we already have similar things in our house!
---SO routinely buys food she doesn't finish, or forgets about... thus we throw out more food than we should... I plan to work on this one by inspecting the contents of the refrigerator before we create our monthly grocery list
-- SO seems walking-averse and DEFINITELY bike-averse, and she drives an SUV because she feels "safer," plus she routinely drives the
car or asked to be driven even if we are going three blocks away to her friend's house... she's about as outdoorsy as a desktop computer.
--Basically, SO is completely non-mustachian in most ways... not to mention she has no money stash or retirement to speak of
and really doesn't show much interest in it... she basically thinks of it as "that thing that I'm interested in," as if it's my hobby
just like her hobby is sewing or watching TV shows.
--SO about as interested in tracking her money as I am in eating cardboard. This often makes it difficult to actually know what she is spending for day to day, I periodically look on her mint account to do our taxes and that's usually when I know. She also doesn't like spreadsheets and seems non-enthused when I bring up the subject of compounding (could there be anything greater!)
--For my part, I am EAGER to grow our stash, but it seems I need to grow my income significantly from about $50k/year to do so (I am self employed and goal of 2107 is $75k. In fact, I hired my wife's business coach, which was definitely NOT a mustachian thing to do because it increase my expenses by over $500/mo... hoping it will pay off in the long run, so far it's been good, but I still have high expenses and need to earn more, fuuuuuuuuuuck)
Okay, enough of the bad stuff (mostly)...
HERE ARE THE SIGNS OF PROGRESS:
--SO agrees with the idea of saving, she has even started investing $100/month in Betterment, which is better
than absolutely nothing...
--SO is starting her own education business. She has made at least $1500 doing several workshops already and has gotten paid by about
20 clients... she just needs to keep putting on events and turn it into a consistent money generator.
--We have been shopping at the fairly frugal budget of $400/mo for over a year (however, my wife insists that she still gets to go
out and buy other things when she wants them... thus defeating the purpose in my eyes of the words "grocery budget")
--She is okay with us shopping at the Dollar Tree and Grocery Outlet (cheaper stores), and of course Costco. This is definitely working well,
we used to shop at Safeway.
--SO is fully on board with us going with an HSA in 2017 for the first time... while a modest piece of the FI model, I like the
idea of self-funding and having an ongoing health savings account.
I have mixed feelings about our situation,
but I dream of us working together in blissful Mustachian/Millionaire Next Door -type bliss, and being happy retired millionaires in ten to fifteen years.
But I don't see it happening from savings alone.
I dream of being able to save 50% or more of our income, seems way far off right now... I am scrambling to put
10% away in an IRA.
I know, I know. Baby steps. I can be patient. I just learned about Mr. Money Mustache a little over a year ago, and I didn't even start saving money in my IRA spring of 2015. Thank you for your excellent post.
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Good luck, DieHard, that's a tough corner you're in. I just ended an 8 yr relationship with my guy for many of those reasons you list above. You're a good man for sticking with her.
Here's an interesting podcast Mad Fientist just issued, which might offer some juicy tidbits:
http://www.madfientist.com/sane-fientist-interview/
And his wife's article on how she opened up to the idea:
http://www.madfientist.com/an-unexpected-guest-post/
Hang in there!
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Good luck, DieHard, that's a tough corner you're in. I just ended an 8 yr relationship with my guy for many of those reasons you list above. You're a good man for sticking with her.
Here's an interesting podcast Mad Fientist just issued, which might offer some juicy tidbits:
http://www.madfientist.com/sane-fientist-interview/
And his wife's article on how she opened up to the idea:
http://www.madfientist.com/an-unexpected-guest-post/
Hang in there!
Hi SassyG, thanks for the thoughts.
You know, I really have a strong frugal streak, obviously I'm all about these Mustachians ideas. And my wife tries her best, but just is not frugal in her orientation. Also, she really isn't a planner. She just doesn't seem that excited by the prospect of compound interest, or saving tons of money like I am. She just takes it as she goes, very much in the present, and very much a spender who likes to buy things, even though she is trying to get on board with it, and is succeeding to some extent.
Yet she still seems to see not spending as some sort of punishment or deprivation. And I can tell she gets depressed about it sometimes, as if we are depriving ourselves of things, as if we are broke or something.
And yet, we have a real love together, and money conversations aside, we are really happy together most of the time.
So I know this is the right thing for me, I figure this is my learning experience... how to keep getting my goals accomplished while working with how we are different.
I need to make the best of it.
Thanks for the links, I will check them out.
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I would also recommend the book, "Your Money or Your Life". Listen to the audiobook in her presence, maybe?
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I would also recommend the book, "Your Money or Your Life". Listen to the audiobook in her presence, maybe?
Good idea, I have a copy of it I read last year, we tracked our money in and money out for two months, which was quite
interesting, but to be honest, even for me it just seemed like more work than i wanted to do! But she was willing to go
along with it.
Since december, our communication has improved. I have been hearing her out more, and we are getting along better
over all with spending.
Yesterday we had our 5 year anniversary, and we went out to lunch with a $50 gift card she had (her idea!), we got
our parking validated so it was free, and we rented a movie for $4 instead of spending probably $25 going out to a movie.
Most of this was her idea, so that is a win!
Several times lately she has also said she is a "convert" to this way of thinking. For instance, she is a big fan of our shopping
regime... one a month shopping trips that we make to Dollar Tree/Grocery Outlet/Costco (usually in that order) with only a
few items we get a Safeway.
We mostly eat at home nowadays, and this works with her diet anyway, which is quite restricted (no sugar, no or little carb)
She has even agreed to save 10% of her income from a new teaching gig she is starting... 5% for our HSa, and 5% for her IRA.
This is progress!
I am seeing the progress that comes from listening to her better and working on our communication.
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Sounds like it's going really well :)
It can definitely take time. My DH and I just today were chuckling about some of his past spendy inclinations, as in we can't even believe that was him! We've come a long way.
Sounds like you two are a great team :)
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Amazing list!! Thanks for this.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Amazing list!! Thanks for this.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hope it helps! :)
Feel free to add your own ideas in the comments!
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Sounds like it's going really well :)
It can definitely take time. My DH and I just today were chuckling about some of his past spendy inclinations, as in we can't even believe that was him! We've come a long way.
Sounds like you two are a great team :)
We have definitely been making progress. My wife and I talk more productively about money nowadays.
Positive signs:
--We continue planning our grocery shopping, and basically staying within budget of $400/mo (I probably can be more insistent on keeping exactly within the budget, yet last year we literally saved about $3000 through this strategy)
--We are clearing out a storage space of mostly her old stuff and that will save $84/mo. (Still need to go through a lot of boxes and figure out where to store in our home... we also plan on selling and releasing a lot of it)
--My wife is now investing each month, and promises to put aside an extra 10% of the income from her new teaching gig for investing
--We have discussed the possibility of becoming a one-car family, possibly going the Prius/hybrid/electric route.
--She says she is on board and gets what I'm doing, she also acknowledges that I am leading us in a good direction, and this empowers me to feel good about it
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Sounds like it's going really well :)
It can definitely take time. My DH and I just today were chuckling about some of his past spendy inclinations, as in we can't even believe that was him! We've come a long way.
Sounds like you two are a great team :)
We have definitely been making progress. My wife and I talk more productively about money nowadays.
Positive signs:
--We continue planning our grocery shopping, and basically staying within budget of $400/mo (I probably can be more insistent on keeping exactly within the budget, yet last year we literally saved about $3000 through this strategy)
--We are clearing out a storage space of mostly her old stuff and that will save $84/mo. (Still need to go through a lot of boxes and figure out where to store in our home... we also plan on selling and releasing a lot of it)
--My wife is now investing each month, and promises to put aside an extra 10% of the income from her new teaching gig for investing
--We have discussed the possibility of becoming a one-car family, possibly going the Prius/hybrid/electric route.
--She says she is on board and gets what I'm doing, she also acknowledges that I am leading us in a good direction, and this empowers me to feel good about it
These small steps really add up! I'm seeing giant strides of progress here! Way to go!!!
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Really great list. I like the advice about being helpful rather than critical. It's easy to tell someone "They need to be doing better." It takes much more effort to do the work yourself in order to capture the savings. I.e. Cooking as an alternative to eating out. Packing a lunch that they will love, cleaning the house rather than having a cleaner (Using a cleaner is borderline to a justifiable reason for an Annulment in my book, but cleaning is a credible example.) Overall creating solutions by playing to your strengths is an answer.
I'm fortunate enough to have a partner that has always been fairly tolerant of my cheap* and frugal* behavior. I convinced her to ready Early Retirement Extreme, which was probably a bad place to start, but it did have the effect of further clarifying a starting point of what my 'needs' and 'dreams' are. Her initial reaction was that we were going to be living in a trailer park depriving ourselves or something along those lines. After things sinking in that we could still enjoy ourselves she became much more accepting.
Next, what started as one of the biggest obstacles, really created a huge synergy. We hit a major roadblock when it came to having kids. I was pretty certain I did not want to have any (Expensive, constraints, etc.) She was very certain she did want to have them. Being in our early 30's began to push this into a "Now or never" type of situation. Without a solution on this, splitting up seemed to be a likely outcome.
First I read a book titled "Selfish Reasons to Have More Kids" By Bryan Caplan. I didn't care for the writing style. A two star rating would be generous for this book. - However it was what I needed to read, and by the end of it I was more amicable to the idea of having kid(s). I reached the conclusion that the biggest reasons I didn't want to have kids were:
1. Money - Kids are expensive.
2. I hated my job. - Having kids would make having that job, or a similar crappy job necessary.
3. Raising a kid is today's modern society. - Both parents working full time, while the kid(s) go to daycare just doesn't speak "Family Values" to me. Sure some kids may love daycare, but what's the point of having kid(s) you don't spend time with?
4. Environmental impact of having a child. - If you care about the environment you understand this reason already.
5. Fear of divorce / broken family - Most people don't like talking about this, but this is a big fear for many people. While some people just "Go with the flow" and "Worry about the consequences later" having a child with someone conjured up images of "Paying child support for a kid you never see." etc.
We talked about these things, and I showed her the posts on MMM's child bearing expenses. At some point in time I convinced her to read the full list of MMM blog posts. She started buying used baby items on Craigslist / Close 5 at great prices. We would get a good enough deal that even if she had second thoughts about the item, she would turn around and sell the item for a profit.
Also, I took some time off from my work to decide whether I wanted to start my own business, go back to my career, or change careers, and/or be a stay at home parent.
I apologize that our scenario can be duplicated by very few people. The points to take away from myself and Ops post are: ****
1. Put forth the effort.
2. Be positive. **
3. Make use of your strengths.
4. Be balanced. You and your Sig. Other both have a unique set of needs.
5. Display excellent communication skills. ***
6. Be patient.
7? This is touchy subject since you're certainly "In love." But (especially) if you don't have kids, or a similar obligation, you might consider whether you are compatible to be together long term. I.e. Are you satisfied being with someone set out to undermine your financial well being? In our case, we both had something "We had to have." and we were fortunate enough to both get what we want with minimal sacrifice.
* Cheap is oftentimes bad. Frugal is typically a positive trait. By nature I'm cheap, but I've been trying to become more frugal.
** I haven't always been positive, but I've been much more positive in the last few years, than previously.
***I am convinced your financial communication often reflects your overall communication as a couple. If you're fighting over money, I'll put my money on there being other issues you are having communication problems with as well.
**** I am giving credit for any of these that represent Ops post. Some may only be my opinion.
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Sounds like it's going really well :)
It can definitely take time. My DH and I just today were chuckling about some of his past spendy inclinations, as in we can't even believe that was him! We've come a long way.
Sounds like you two are a great team :)
Hey thanks,
Getting better at our communication all the time.
We already have a lot of great things going for us together: lots of fun together, enjoy being together, similar ways we like to live day-to-day, and we're both
complimentary in our creativity and professions. so there's a really great foundation there. Obviously the money thing was an important missing link, and things are definitely moving along... Thanks for this post, it helped for sure
We have definitely been making progress. My wife and I talk more productively about money nowadays.
Positive signs:
--We continue planning our grocery shopping, and basically staying within budget of $400/mo (I probably can be more insistent on keeping exactly within the budget, yet last year we literally saved about $3000 through this strategy)
--We are clearing out a storage space of mostly her old stuff and that will save $84/mo. (Still need to go through a lot of boxes and figure out where to store in our home... we also plan on selling and releasing a lot of it)
--My wife is now investing each month, and promises to put aside an extra 10% of the income from her new teaching gig for investing
--We have discussed the possibility of becoming a one-car family, possibly going the Prius/hybrid/electric route.
--She says she is on board and gets what I'm doing, she also acknowledges that I am leading us in a good direction, and this empowers me to feel good about it
These small steps really add up! I'm seeing giant strides of progress here! Way to go!!!
(I guess I forgot to write something here)
Thank you!
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Good lookin' out on putting together this extensive list, lifejoy! I'll be sure to implement many of the tips along my journey and hopefully my SO will eventually see the light. It will indeed take much persistence, patience, and
manipulation love. But like anything worth having, after all the hard work has been put it, makes it that much sweeter.
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There's some excellent tips here!
Really appreciate the effort of putting this together.
I'm at the very start of my FIRE journey so this is a big help.
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Great advice! I also had a pretty spendy spouse (not on luxury items, just things like coffee out...you know, because that doesn't make a difference). Now he's 100% on board.
I think the biggest thing to take away from your list is to lead by example without worrying about maintaining everything absolutely 50/50. Nagging does not work, and you can't force someone to see things your way. I just started doing my thing and he saw our accounts grow, our stress levels decrease, and our waistlines shrink. That was enough for him, and far more powerful than any amount of verbal convincing. Now I can honestly say we're 50/50.
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Great advice! I also had a pretty spendy spouse (not on luxury items, just things like coffee out...you know, because that doesn't make a difference). Now he's 100% on board.
I think the biggest thing to take away from your list is to lead by example without worrying about maintaining everything absolutely 50/50. Nagging does not work, and you can't force someone to see things your way. I just started doing my thing and he saw our accounts grow, our stress levels decrease, and our waistlines shrink. That was enough for him, and far more powerful than any amount of verbal convincing. Now I can honestly say we're 50/50.
That's really impressive! Way to go! I need to try and apply this logic to other areas in my life: if I want to go to the gym with my DH, I better start going without him. If I want him to watch less tv, I better start watching less tv.
It's a good rule of thumb!
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Ptf
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This is awesome!
I've been hardcore changing my life and finances to get to FIRE and my SO has definitely noticed. The lead by example I found was the key because it allows them to see all the benefits before they dive in. In the last 3 months he's decided to RAGE down his debt, sell a TON of stuff, and has set a date to cut back his business " stop plowing snow by 30".
We adopted a totally cheesy tactic to encourage each other with everything but we call it " positive reinforcement high-fives" we say it, slap hands and listen to a proclamation of what we think we did well with. Ex: I spent $20 less on groceries because I went to the farmers market or O finished that project instead of watching Netflix.
We've found EVERY aspect of our relationship has improved because we both are actively supporting one another on small things which as everyone here knows ADDS UP OVERTIME and COMPOUNDS our happiness ( see what I did there?! ;) )
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This is awesome!
I've been hardcore changing my life and finances to get to FIRE and my SO has definitely noticed. The lead by example I found was the key because it allows them to see all the benefits before they dive in. In the last 3 months he's decided to RAGE down his debt, sell a TON of stuff, and has set a date to cut back his business " stop plowing snow by 30".
We adopted a totally cheesy tactic to encourage each other with everything but we call it " positive reinforcement high-fives" we say it, slap hands and listen to a proclamation of what we think we did well with. Ex: I spent $20 less on groceries because I went to the farmers market or O finished that project instead of watching Netflix.
We've found EVERY aspect of our relationship has improved because we both are actively supporting one another on small things which as everyone here knows ADDS UP OVERTIME and COMPOUNDS our happiness ( see what I did there?! ;) )
That is so inspiring :)
"Lead by example" seems to work for everything from finances to health to decluttering. I love it!
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Thank you. This is an awesome post! Good luck to everyone undertaking this challenge. I once had a very spendy partner, the relationship broke down as it was just too stressful, living pay to pay with two small children.
Thankfully my current SO and I have similar frugal values and financial goals however my children, not so much. Some of your suggestions do apply to them. Leading by example, especially now we are FIRE'd and loving it, has been very powerful with my daughter.
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So, my BF transformed himself from Spendy McSpender to Mr. FrugalPants about a year and a half ago. Until that point, he aggressively invalidated all suggestions about not eating out so much and links to MMM posts, blew off all comments about retirement with 'well, I'll work till I can't, then I'll just eat cat food till I die'.
He came pretty close to being served up a tin of dog food. (Cat food is surprising expensive.)
The magic turning point was him deciding he 'didn't want to work anymore.'
Well and good. He paid off his line of credit and now saves $2000 a month.
Now he is deciding to do with his surplus.
And here's the problem: he is unsophisticated about financial stuff, and thinks he knows more than he does, and incidentally, more than me. He thinks the cleverest thing to do is pay off the tiny remaining balance on his low-interest rate mortgage.
I did a long comparative calculation of paying off his mortgage (5 years at 3-ish percent) entirely in two years versus sticking with the 5 years and investing the extra money in an RRSP and investing the tax refund. The investment was head and shoulders better.
But he wants the emotional payoff of the 'no mortgage' scenario. His money, I just want him to make the choice with eyes open so he knows what that 'mortgage free' scenario is actually costing him. Which is two extra years of work and extreme saving.
The amazing part was, he does not believe me. And I am flabbergasted by his ignorance and stupidity. He does not understand basic RRSP rules. He does not know that you carry forward unused contribution room, or anything else, really. He thinks I made up this impossible, RRSP rule-violating scenario, because he is such an idiot he did not even look up the information to check if his thinking was actually correct.
I politely explained to him about RRSP's and included links. Perhaps if someone else explains it, he will believe them. But then he doesn't like to read things he doesn't agree with... so he might just ignore it.
So. Could be worse. At least he's saving.
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So, my BF transformed himself from Spendy McSpender to Mr. FrugalPants about a year and a half ago. Until that point, he aggressively invalidated all suggestions about not eating out so much and links to MMM posts, blew off all comments about retirement with 'well, I'll work till I can't, then I'll just eat cat food till I die'.
He came pretty close to being served up a tin of dog food. (Cat food is surprising expensive.)
The magic turning point was him deciding he 'didn't want to work anymore.'
Well and good. He paid off his line of credit and now saves $2000 a month.
Now he is deciding to do with his surplus.
And here's the problem: he is unsophisticated about financial stuff, and thinks he knows more than he does, and incidentally, more than me. He thinks the cleverest thing to do is pay off the tiny remaining balance on his low-interest rate mortgage.
I did a long comparative calculation of paying off his mortgage (5 years at 3-ish percent) entirely in two years versus sticking with the 5 years and investing the extra money in an RRSP and investing the tax refund. The investment was head and shoulders better.
But he wants the emotional payoff of the 'no mortgage' scenario. His money, I just want him to make the choice with eyes open so he knows what that 'mortgage free' scenario is actually costing him. Which is two extra years of work and extreme saving.
The amazing part was, he does not believe me. And I am flabbergasted by his ignorance and stupidity. He does not understand basic RRSP rules. He does not know that you carry forward unused contribution room, or anything else, really. He thinks I made up this impossible, RRSP rule-violating scenario, because he is such an idiot he did not even look up the information to check if his thinking was actually correct.
I politely explained to him about RRSP's and included links. Perhaps if someone else explains it, he will believe them. But then he doesn't like to read things he doesn't agree with... so he might just ignore it.
So. Could be worse. At least he's saving.
Is he saving in a taxable account? Trying to think of a compromise here you may be able to propose: invest in a taxable account while paying the minimum on the mortgage. Once the taxable balance > mortgage balance, decide if you want to kill the mortgage. If yes, awesome! Do it in one fell swoop. If he's seen the math work in favor of investing, then that's great and he can keep on doing that.
If he's not saving enough to invest in taxable accounts it might not be the best strategy though.
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I’m going to say it would be a mistake to ignore the emotional side of financial decisions. It might it be logical but if someone feels emotional about it, you can’t appeal to them using logic IMO.
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The amazing part was, he does not believe me. And I am flabbergasted by his ignorance and stupidity. He does not understand basic RRSP rules. He does not know that you carry forward unused contribution room, or anything else, really. He thinks I made up this impossible, RRSP rule-violating scenario, because he is such an idiot he did not even look up the information to check if his thinking was actually correct.
I politely explained to him about RRSP's and included links. Perhaps if someone else explains it, he will believe them. But then he doesn't like to read things he doesn't agree with... so he might just ignore it.
So. Could be worse. At least he's saving.
To show him the unused contribution room, sign him up for a CRA my account online. When you login, you can go and see the unused RRSP and TFSA room available. Hopefully that will help.
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And here's the problem: he is unsophisticated about financial stuff, and thinks he knows more than he does, and incidentally, more than me. He thinks the cleverest thing to do is pay off the tiny remaining balance on his low-interest rate mortgage.
Congrats on the SO conversion! Surely being frugal is a big step forward even if he doesn’t know what to do with the money.
My SO told me a few days ago, “You’re bad at investing” when we were talking about funds. I’m a fan of buying and holding index funds and he basically places Wall Street bets and tries to time the market. So, I know how frustrating it can be to have someone dismiss your input for no reason. Not only rude, but hurtful, too. Especially seeing as how my net worth is up over $32k this year and his is...not. (Although to be fair he did manage an 18% return this past year, which is awesome, but he’s barely contributing so what’s the point?!)
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.....
Now he is deciding to do with his surplus.
And here's the problem: he is unsophisticated about financial stuff, and thinks he knows more than he does, and incidentally, more than me. He thinks the cleverest thing to do is pay off the tiny remaining balance on his low-interest rate mortgage.
....
Missy, we are in very similar & frustrating situations.
First, as you stated at the end it could be worse & at least our SOs are saving.
I need serious help with getting my SO to invest.
Part of my plan is the lead by example so I have invested in VAB & VXC. VXC has done well but VAB is flat over 2years.
We are married so it is kind “our” money & “our” mortgage but we still do a bit independently.
However, they have decided the best thing is to pay the mortgage and I match every lump sum payment.
Because of this I haven’t had much to put towards my couch potato portfolio. VAB, VXC.
They are also vehemently opposed to RRSP. They think that their tax rate will be just as high later so what’s the point. But I’m pretty sure delaying the tax payment, even at the same rate, has benifits. I need to do a better spread sheet to explain this.
Anyway, I’m kind of babbling but: lead by example, do your own investing, be grateful they are saving, & let me know if you find something else that works better.
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One thing to try and it works especially well if your SO has a job that they are not especially in love with is to talk about savings in terms of "days until FI".
We could buy this $1400 item that you want or you can quit your job a week earlier (my SO has a pretty good job ATM).
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Update: I first read this thread 2 or 3 years ago. Since then things have significantly improved in my ability to communicate with my wife about money. When I first got into MMM, I think I alienated her with how I tried to get her onboard with super charging our savings. She saw it as "deprivation," and though she tried to go along, it wasn't fun for her. It stressed her out.
In fact, she was scared to say anything, afraid I would get mad at her. I think I probably was being a jerk without fully realizing it.
I have had to learn that you need to meet people half way. Just because I am frugal and a planner when it comes to money, just because I have a desire for Financial Freedom, I can't just force her to think like me.
Now that I have relaxed, changed my attitude, I have gotten a lot more positive buy in from her when it comes to our financial progress.
She is starting to get into it too!
In fact, today I showed her what I call our "His & Hers" Chart... A table that I made that shows our combined savings and investments. I made it more visually appealing than a simple spreadsheet, for her sake,
by putting pictures on it. Our combined savings and investments have increased
by nearly 40% in just 9 months, thanks to our combined efforts.
She looked at the chart today and said, "Wow, I almost want to add more to my (IRA/savings account) so that it is closer to yours! I'm feeling competitive!" And I thought, "Is this really happening? My wife is getting excited about saving!"
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Update: I first read this thread 2 or 3 years ago. Since then things have significantly improved in my ability to communicate with my wife about money. When I first got into MMM, I think I alienated her with how I tried to get her onboard with super charging our savings. She saw it as "deprivation," and though she tried to go along, it wasn't fun for her. It stressed her out.
In fact, she was scared to say anything, afraid I would get mad at her. I think I probably was being a jerk without fully realizing it.
I have had to learn that you need to meet people half way. Just because I am frugal and a planner when it comes to money, just because I have a desire for Financial Freedom, I can't just force her to think like me.
Now that I have relaxed, changed my attitude, I have gotten a lot more positive buy in from her when it comes to our financial progress.
She is starting to get into it too!
In fact, today I showed her what I call our "His & Hers" Chart... A table that I made that shows our combined savings and investments. I made it more visually appealing than a simple spreadsheet, for her sake,
by putting pictures on it. Our combined savings and investments have increased
by nearly 40% in just 9 months, thanks to our combined efforts.
She looked at the chart today and said, "Wow, I almost want to add more to my (IRA/savings account) so that it is closer to yours! I'm feeling competitive!" And I thought, "Is this really happening? My wife is getting excited about saving!"
That is really excellent! Myself, I find visual representations of wealth-building to be extremely helpful and motivating! Good thinking!
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I also saw the original post in 2015, when I discovered MMM. I went all in with excitement and had a similar situation to DieHard with my wife as I shared articles with her over a one week period (I burned through every blog post in about 2 months), that ended with her saying "I'm not moving closer to work and biking there". After explaining that I was not suggesting we make his life our life, just that we think a bit more intentionally about things, that seemed to sit better with her, but we never really changed a lot of our approach. We were already pretty frugal (by suburban American standards, not hard core MMM standards). We tend to be about 25-35% savings rate but some recent changes this year have upended some of that and I'm rethinking a few items (you can see the details in my journal if you'd like to follow along).
So we went along for about 3 1/2 years now with me just sharing an idea here and there. I recently had the opportunity to host a screening of Playing with Fire that just happened last week, but that I was obsessed about since Memorial Day to get the ticket minimum. I would start conversations with "I still need x tickets, and I'm out of ideas...." and her eyes would roll and she'd explain it would either happen or not and to stop dwelling on it, but just as these comments here, we're just wired differently and once I have a goal I work on it all the time plussing the ideas and tweaking for continuous improvement. She just wants to be told once and will take from it what she needs and move on and is happy with "good enough" rather than tweaking, so we sometimes have disagreements along those lines. The whole FIRE thing seemed that way as well. She agreed the concept was interesting but was very much in the same mindset at the screening, "it will either happen or it won'". For peace and sanity I just kept doing what I could while balancing what we were doing for our kids etc.
And then as the movie approached (it sold out a few days before the event, so nothing else to shoot for), we were having a conversation and at the end she said, "I really like the fact that we have this great plan to retire early and not worry about money. I can't wait to get there!" Hold the phone! What?! So we talked a bit more as I gently expressed my surprise as she never really talks about it. She shared that just because it's not always a topic of conversation with her did not mean it was not appealing, just that she felt no need to dwell on something that we had a plan for. Again, it was the "good enough" that I seem to have overlooked.
So yes, I'm another one who had a reluctant of skeptical spouse, who has done what I could for the last four years and the example and results seems to have worked. Just like the Mad Fientist, I am even more excited now that she is really on board. We're reorganizing our financial buckets over the next four months or so, as we position ourselves for a less mental journey in my head and more peace for my wife because of it (again, I'm writing about that in my journal if you want to tag along).
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I also saw the original post in 2015, when I discovered MMM. I went all in with excitement and had a similar situation to DieHard with my wife as I shared articles with her over a one week period (I burned through every blog post in about 2 months), that ended with her saying "I'm not moving closer to work and biking there". After explaining that I was not suggesting we make his life our life, just that we think a bit more intentionally about things, that seemed to sit better with her, but we never really changed a lot of our approach. We were already pretty frugal (by suburban American standards, not hard core MMM standards). We tend to be about 25-35% savings rate but some recent changes this year have upended some of that and I'm rethinking a few items (you can see the details in my journal if you'd like to follow along).
So we went along for about 3 1/2 years now with me just sharing an idea here and there. I recently had the opportunity to host a screening of Playing with Fire that just happened last week, but that I was obsessed about since Memorial Day to get the ticket minimum. I would start conversations with "I still need x tickets, and I'm out of ideas...." and her eyes would roll and she'd explain it would either happen or not and to stop dwelling on it, but just as these comments here, we're just wired differently and once I have a goal I work on it all the time plussing the ideas and tweaking for continuous improvement. She just wants to be told once and will take from it what she needs and move on and is happy with "good enough" rather than tweaking, so we sometimes have disagreements along those lines. The whole FIRE thing seemed that way as well. She agreed the concept was interesting but was very much in the same mindset at the screening, "it will either happen or it won'". For peace and sanity I just kept doing what I could while balancing what we were doing for our kids etc.
And then as the movie approached (it sold out a few days before the event, so nothing else to shoot for), we were having a conversation and at the end she said, "I really like the fact that we have this great plan to retire early and not worry about money. I can't wait to get there!" Hold the phone! What?! So we talked a bit more as I gently expressed my surprise as she never really talks about it. She shared that just because it's not always a topic of conversation with her did not mean it was not appealing, just that she felt no need to dwell on something that we had a plan for. Again, it was the "good enough" that I seem to have overlooked.
So yes, I'm another one who had a reluctant of skeptical spouse, who has done what I could for the last four years and the example and results seems to have worked. Just like the Mad Fientist, I am even more excited now that she is really on board. We're reorganizing our financial buckets over the next four months or so, as we position ourselves for a less mental journey in my head and more peace for my wife because of it (again, I'm writing about that in my journal if you want to tag along).
Great example of how playing the long game is key! For some of us, the changes suit instantaneously... but for others, a whole lifestyle and mindset change (understandably) takes time! Patience is key :)
Great share! My DH and I are about to buy a small house. It is fascinating to me to hear him say to me a lot of the words I’ve been saying to him about the merits of smaller homes... you never know what has been sinking in! And the best part is when he talks about the lack of stress when he contemplates a smaller mortgage.
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I also saw the original post in 2015, when I discovered MMM. I went all in with excitement and had a similar situation to DieHard with my wife as I shared articles with her over a one week period (I burned through every blog post in about 2 months), that ended with her saying "I'm not moving closer to work and biking there". After explaining that I was not suggesting we make his life our life, just that we think a bit more intentionally about things, that seemed to sit better with her, but we never really changed a lot of our approach. We were already pretty frugal (by suburban American standards, not hard core MMM standards). We tend to be about 25-35% savings rate but some recent changes this year have upended some of that and I'm rethinking a few items (you can see the details in my journal if you'd like to follow along).
So we went along for about 3 1/2 years now with me just sharing an idea here and there. I recently had the opportunity to host a screening of Playing with Fire that just happened last week, but that I was obsessed about since Memorial Day to get the ticket minimum. I would start conversations with "I still need x tickets, and I'm out of ideas...." and her eyes would roll and she'd explain it would either happen or not and to stop dwelling on it, but just as these comments here, we're just wired differently and once I have a goal I work on it all the time plussing the ideas and tweaking for continuous improvement. She just wants to be told once and will take from it what she needs and move on and is happy with "good enough" rather than tweaking, so we sometimes have disagreements along those lines. The whole FIRE thing seemed that way as well. She agreed the concept was interesting but was very much in the same mindset at the screening, "it will either happen or it won'". For peace and sanity I just kept doing what I could while balancing what we were doing for our kids etc.
And then as the movie approached (it sold out a few days before the event, so nothing else to shoot for), we were having a conversation and at the end she said, "I really like the fact that we have this great plan to retire early and not worry about money. I can't wait to get there!" Hold the phone! What?! So we talked a bit more as I gently expressed my surprise as she never really talks about it. She shared that just because it's not always a topic of conversation with her did not mean it was not appealing, just that she felt no need to dwell on something that we had a plan for. Again, it was the "good enough" that I seem to have overlooked.
So yes, I'm another one who had a reluctant of skeptical spouse, who has done what I could for the last four years and the example and results seems to have worked. Just like the Mad Fientist, I am even more excited now that she is really on board. We're reorganizing our financial buckets over the next four months or so, as we position ourselves for a less mental journey in my head and more peace for my wife because of it (again, I'm writing about that in my journal if you want to tag along).
Great example of how playing the long game is key! For some of us, the changes suit instantaneously... but for others, a whole lifestyle and mindset change (understandably) takes time! Patience is key :)
Great share! My DH and I are about to buy a small house. It is fascinating to me to hear him say to me a lot of the words I’ve been saying to him about the merits of smaller homes... you never know what has been sinking in! And the best part is when he talks about the lack of stress when he contemplates a smaller mortgage.
Really happy for you. Great reinforcement to others about how both our stories have gone.
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Hi Diehard,
I am really glad for you, and your progress gives hope to me... I am still at an early stage of the MMM journey!
From what approx saving rate did you improve over the few years?
Update: I first read this thread 2 or 3 years ago. Since then things have significantly improved in my ability to communicate with my wife about money. When I first got into MMM, I think I alienated her with how I tried to get her onboard with super charging our savings. She saw it as "deprivation," and though she tried to go along, it wasn't fun for her. It stressed her out.
In fact, she was scared to say anything, afraid I would get mad at her. I think I probably was being a jerk without fully realizing it.
I have had to learn that you need to meet people half way. Just because I am frugal and a planner when it comes to money, just because I have a desire for Financial Freedom, I can't just force her to think like me.
Now that I have relaxed, changed my attitude, I have gotten a lot more positive buy in from her when it comes to our financial progress.
She is starting to get into it too!
In fact, today I showed her what I call our "His & Hers" Chart... A table that I made that shows our combined savings and investments. I made it more visually appealing than a simple spreadsheet, for her sake,
by putting pictures on it. Our combined savings and investments have increased
by nearly 40% in just 9 months, thanks to our combined efforts.
She looked at the chart today and said, "Wow, I almost want to add more to my (IRA/savings account) so that it is closer to yours! I'm feeling competitive!" And I thought, "Is this really happening? My wife is getting excited about saving!"
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My SO is getting more and more on board with investing. They have been a pretty frugal spender, no consumer debt & good saver but like to hoard cash.
Last year I took over their investments. (no pressure) They are still invested very conservatively by Mustacian standards but are at least not all cash.
2018 is the first year I have tracked dividends. Combining his/her/ours was $3700. That is very motivating. They want to invest more now.
I am tempted to do 2019 to date as well to keep them motivated. I know dividend's aren't everything, and most are set to DRIP, but it is still a motivating measure that might be a good carrot for your SO.
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Hi Diehard,
I am really glad for you, and your progress gives hope to me... I am still at an early stage of the MMM journey!
From what approx saving rate did you improve over the few years?
Update: I first read this thread 2 or 3 years ago. Since then things have significantly improved in my ability to communicate with my wife about money. When I first got into MMM, I think I alienated her with how I tried to get her onboard with super charging our savings. She saw it as "deprivation," and though she tried to go along, it wasn't fun for her. It stressed her out.
In fact, she was scared to say anything, afraid I would get mad at her. I think I probably was being a jerk without fully realizing it.
I have had to learn that you need to meet people half way. Just because I am frugal and a planner when it comes to money, just because I have a desire for Financial Freedom, I can't just force her to think like me.
Now that I have relaxed, changed my attitude, I have gotten a lot more positive buy in from her when it comes to our financial progress.
She is starting to get into it too!
In fact, today I showed her what I call our "His & Hers" Chart... A table that I made that shows our combined savings and investments. I made it more visually appealing than a simple spreadsheet, for her sake,
by putting pictures on it. Our combined savings and investments have increased
by nearly 40% in just 9 months, thanks to our combined efforts.
She looked at the chart today and said, "Wow, I almost want to add more to my (IRA/savings account) so that it is closer to yours! I'm feeling competitive!" And I thought, "Is this really happening? My wife is getting excited about saving!"
Hi @fire100xz, apologies for taking so long to see this... My wife and I were basically at 0% savings rate in 2015.
And now we are approximately at 20% savings rate (when you count me paying off my student loan, which will be at $0 soon, and then
even more will go into the stash every month).
I would like it to be more, but I am learning to make the best of it... and appreciating what we are doing well.
As I attract more income, I will up the savings rate.
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Love these tips! Thank you!
Now for an expert challenge, someone do "How to Convert your EX" :-)
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Update:
My wife and I have continued to cooperate and work together on our finances. I have made many modifications to my own attitude, and she has modified her actions so we can co-exist happily while pursuing our financial goals. I have mostly been quite pleased to see our progress... last year we saved about 20% of our income. This year it's probably more, as I have been gung ho about saving amidst the pandemic and market crash.
In general, here are some of the positive steps we have been taking:
--Continue bi-weekly shopping at warehouse stores Costco and Winco. We always bring a list we agreed upon beforehand, and it has worked quite well.
--Using our rewards credit card wisely has resulted in many accumulated points (while paying down balance each month), which currently we can use to pay off a lot of our expenses, since Capital One loosened their requirements to many daily purchases during the pandemic.
--I paid off my student loan, and my wife cheered me on all the while. That was cool.
--We successfully got a new auto/renter's insurance policy that saves $30/mo, after they raised the rates.
--I regularly show my wife our networth progress, and since I have been very mellow and nice about it for several years now, she is usually quite enthused about it. Plus, we have continued making progress.
--In general, we are quite aligned in terms of keeping things simple. We both tend to stay home a lot (even before the pandemic), and this of course generally helps with saving money.
--My wife has been quite cooperative at doing regular savings and investing. She has been using money apps Digit and Qapital to automatically set aside money, and she is quite pleased with this. So am I.
--As I said, 20% savings rate last year. To me this is already a DREAM COME TRUE (and will keep improving).
There are of course usual challenges that one must navigate in marriage, and in our case we do see things differently when it comes to money/financial planning/saving. However, we are working together quite well overall, and I am quite appreciative of our progress.
Thanks again to the OP for starting this thread, it has definitely helped.
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This thread has been quiet for a while, but I wanted to share a bit of my experience with my SO. In our case, it was not really about conversion to MMM, but rather to investing, and there's some overlap there, I think.
I can't stress enough what others have said about patience/reasonable expectations, etc. My wife was pretty good at the first 2 steps (making the money and not spending all the money), but step 3 (investing the saved money) was a no-go for her. It was driving me nuts to see years and years of her savings (six figures) sitting in a Chase account making .004 interest or whatever it was, but investing was a terrifying concept to her, pretty much synonymous in her mind with taking the cash to Vegas. That was about 4 years ago.
A very important transitional step to investing in stocks was convincing her to transfer $ to a high yield savings account. Even that was scary to her, because it was new, and the idea of a online-only bank was sketchy/dubious in her mind. It took time, but I did convince her to transfer almost all of her savings into a CIBC Agility account, making 1% interest, or a bit more than that. I did this by 1) setting up my own account first and showing her the process 2) explaining the concept of FIDC insurance 3) having her transfer a small amount first (under 1K), letting it sit there for a week or 2, and then transferring it back into her Chase account - this proved to her satisfaction that the new account was not just stealing her money, and that the money would still be there, and accessible.
My wife was ready at that point to transfer about half of her savings to the high-yield account. A few months after she did that, I had her look at the latest statement. For her, being able to see with her own eyes what her money was doing - making $50-60/mo in interest, and seeing the balance grow... that was a lightbulb moment. She compared that to the 50 cents/mo or whatever she was making in interest at Chase... and wanted to transfer every remaining penny immediately! Huge step.
It was another patient slog to get her to invest in the market, but the investing foundation had been laid. I slowly introduced the idea of low-fee index funds, trying to show how yes, perhaps they were a gamble, but a much, much better gamble (long term, at least) than leaving all her money in a savings account. After all, keeping all your money in cash is essentially gambling that inflation won't ever happen, right? How's that worked out historically? There was a lot of learning on her part - at that point, she had no idea what a fund was... investing in the stock market only meant investing in individual stocks, as far as she knew.
The idea of dollar cost averaging was also very reassuring for her - no, she didn't have to plop her life savings into a total market or S&P 500 fund all at once... She opened a Vanguard brokerage account (which was easy because that's where her 401k was already), and set up automatic investing - $1K every week. Patience, yes. But the automatic function was so, so important - she didn't have to think about it, or actively make a decision every week - it just happened in the background. That account now has $70K in it.
She didn't hesitate a few months ago when I brought up the idea of contributing to her IRA - she promptly moved $6K. Lately, she's been asking if she shouldn't invest more, now that the market's down! (My advice, and I do say advice, because I've always stressed to her that ultimately, it was her money to do with what she wanted - she made that money on her own before we got married, etc., was to stay the course and keep DCA'ing... But I was really impressed that she had that thought!)
I'm really proud of my wife's progress, because it hasn't been easy for her - growing up, her family culture regarding money was... we don't talk about it. And she's gotten so much better at being able to talk about it. She's also seen the difference in me - as she's gotten more competent with finances and has invested more, I've become more relaxed about money, which she certainly appreciates. It's been effective positive reinforcement; the more she learns and takes an active interest in our family's finances, the less stressed I am, and I am honestly more pleasant to be around. A very nice cycle!
I've picked my battles. We'll never be "true" mustachians - we don't budget, and splurge unnecessarily on some things (restaurants and Amazon, oh my). But I've decided that as long as we're consistently saving at least a third of our income AND being smart (investing!) with the money we've saved, I can live with some sub-optimal financial decisions. My wife doesn't really understand the allure of RE, but she totally gets the FI piece, and that's the much more important element to me!
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I'm really proud of my wife's progress, because it hasn't been easy for her - growing up, her family culture regarding money was... we don't talk about it. And she's gotten so much better at being able to talk about it. She's also seen the difference in me - as she's gotten more competent with finances and has invested more, I've become more relaxed about money, which she certainly appreciates. It's been effective positive reinforcement; the more she learns and takes an active interest in our family's finances, the less stressed I am, and I am honestly more pleasant to be around. A very nice cycle!
Congrats, @EarlyInJourney. It is awesome to read how you have communicated with your wife. You seem patient and open-minded, and clearly it's having a positive affect on her. How have things gone since you posted this last year?
When I discovered MMM, I think I overwhelmed my wife with my zealous enthusiasm for saving. I learned to shift my expectations. Instead of driving us to try to be full-on Mustachian (50%+ savings rate), I have embraced appreciating out progress. Like your wife, my wife also was uncomfortable with the idea of investing. She had been burned in the past and is more risk-averse than I am. There had to be compromise. It started with me being more patient with our progress. As a result, she has gotten on board.
Side note: My wife loves the automatic savings app like Qapital and Digit. She doesn't want to have to manually save. Instead, she loves that the apps do it for her, and now she has accumulated quite a big stash of cash.
Also, I relate with your story about your wife's money being in a 0% interest account. My wife likes what she calls "Squirrel money." It's really under-the-mattress cash that she knows she can access easily. She keeps quite a lot of it yielding 0% (or close), but fortunately she has gotten into I-Bonds and also has a high-yield savings account. Meanwhile, she invests in her Betterment account, which she likes because it too can be easily accessed by an app on her phone. I have learned to encourage her to participate in savings in a way that works for her. The end result is that we regularly save 25%+ of our income and it is a joy to behold our NW grow.
All the best to you and your happy wealth journey as a couple!