How To Be Bored

[Ocon]

Mustache_Wallace here.

I recently joined in the financial fray and I was wondering if any of you fine dirt lipped people had any advice on how to be bored. How to be bored is rather blunt but there is a transition period that people like me struggle with and because of it will fail to reach financial independence or debt freedom. I realize that sounds like some sort of weak willed excuse or complainypants type response to some of you more hardcore mustachians but remember many of us 'normal' people (financially insane) come from a life of excess: watching TV whenever we want, Netflix, Xbox, video games, going out on the weekends, ordering food with friends, hitting up restaurants, drinking at bars, movies, etc.). My biggest problem is going out on the weekends. Sit around all day on a Saturday, not doing much, and someone says 'Let's go downtown,' my immediate thought is, 'Yeah, fuck it, I'm bored out of my damn mind.'

I understand these are luxuries and I agree completely. I understand I will adapt and get used to it (and likely be happier). And I understand that suffering now makes for a better life later.

Think about it. Getting out of debt slavery is a fucking war. A passive war. You pay a bill once a month and then nothing happens until the next month. And that will go one until you're free.

But for those of you who adapted and overcame, what were some of your strategies?
What were your hobbies?
How do you blow off steam after a mundane and uninspiring work week?
How do you say no to your friends, your roommates even?
How did you get used to going from excess to frugality?
How did you ensure longevity and sticking to the goal?

Ultimately I know the whole process comes down to discipline. Like building muscle, you really only see improvements in small increments over long periods of time. But I'm 26, I want the best of both worlds while I'm still young. Unfortunately, I don't think that is the possible.

 

[ixtap]

Go for a hike Saturday afternoon so that when your buddy says "Let's go downtown," you reply "Nah, I'm knackered." Invite your buddy and s/he will be less likely to suggest going downtown.

Books are also free at the library.

If you don't know what works for you, just come up with a list and try a free or cheap thing at regular intervals

Many dance and yoga studios have a free day to attract new customers. Heck, these days you may be able to lessons free at the library.

Check out the meetups in your area.

Is there something you wish you could do? Is there a budget friendly way to learn?

Do the museums in your area have a monthly free day?

Organize a game night so that you can stay in with your friends and not be bored.

Cook a new recipe instead of going out.

[Snow]

Most of it comes down to habits, which takes time to build. So don't be too hard of yourself in the beginning, but keep pushing for improvements.

I'm lucky in that my cohort of close friends are people who have all had a tight life, financially. This means that most of our activities are fairly cheap (board games, inviting each other over for dinner, going for walks in the forest, picking and preserving forest bounty, movie nights at home, etc), but for someone who has friends who are used to spending a lot of money going out, this is going to be a lot harder.

Libraries are probably going to get mentioned as a great place to get free entertainment like books, music and movies. How about trying to arrange a movie night at home instead of going to the cinema? You could each chip in for food (or make sure you swap up who arranges it, to make the costs fair), cook dinner together and then hunker down in a couch for some good times. It'll still cost some money, but it'll be a lot cheaper than ordering take-out and hitting the town/cinema with drinks/snacks etc. Board game nights are also an option, or just suggesting playing a video game you already have, instead of buying a new one.

As far as hobbies, I like having something practical to do with my hands while watching a movie with SO. That way I feel like we're not just wasting 1.5+ hours staring at the magic box. That could be making shopping nets, mending clothes, sewing/repairing stuff or just about any other activity that is small enough to fit into my lap.

Blowing off steam depends on your own interests. You could hit a local park/forest/mountain and just run your heart out until you've run out of the aforementioned steam. You could get a set of weights and bust some muscle there, you could go for a long, rewarding hike, or you could sing your lungs out, what do I know? It depends on your preference.

You don't always have to say no to your friends/roommates. Sometimes you could simply suggest an alternative. If you need to say no, I've always found honesty to be the easiest. Simply say something along the lines of "Thanks, but I would rather not spend x on drinks tonight. Could we do y instead?" or "Thanks, but I'm trying to save a bit of money this month.". It is hardest in the beginning, but people will get used to it, as will you. Suggesting alternatives is also important for staying in the social circle and not end up isolated.

As you say, it is like building a muscle. It will take time, and starting is the hard part. If you start tracking your spending for a few months, it might shed some light on just how much you spend on certain activities. Then you can go "But that would amount to zk over five years! That's crazy!" and get fueled by that.

Sometimes, seeing your savings grow is one of the biggest and most inspiring rewards to sticking to it. Good luck!

[gerardc]

Stop eating sugar for a while and you'll start enjoying brocoli again when you're really hungry.

Stop excess pleasures for a while, it will be difficult at first, but then you'll start enjoying/feeling more "bland" activities like reading, walking, exercising, talking, relaxation, etc. Once your body/brain adapt, those will feel very pleasurable, but more natural, more healthy and a lot cheaper.

It's only hard at first, if you're feeling bored you're on the right track, keep doing what you're doing, keep pushing and very soon your body/mind will thank you by giving you bursts of creativity (art), joy in simple hobbies, joy in relationships, etc.

That's basically the secret to life! Reprogram yourself. Drop your ego, be a monk for a bit, resist temptation and easy pleasures, then set big goals.

Physiologically, it works because brocoli stimulates your senses in small, controlled doses that you have to work for. With sugar, it takes 5 minutes to be full, then you're like, "what now? what's next?" and you get depressed (or fatter/poorer, but that can only last for so long).

[marty998]

Put phone down.

Go have a nap.

Feel better.

(Spoken by someone on the wrong side of 30)

[MommyCake]

Maybe you can find a side gig based on what you like to do.  Then your free time, some of it anyway, will be spent productively. 

[undercover]

You have to decouple spending money with curing boredom and learn that the two aren't directly correlated.

Also, financial freedom has to be something that drives you everyday (literally wake up thinking about it) - so, as a result, you will naturally find ways to settle into a routine that pushes you towards your goals vs. one that doesn't.

It probably also helps to be introverted like the majority of the board here but even then I don't think that's a necessity.

[marielle]

Why not still go out with your friends but spend nothing, or very little? Bring $5, maybe $10 in cash and leave your credit cards at home. Eventually maybe bring nothing and just accept that it's okay to not spend anything. You're there to hang out with your friends, not spend $30 on dinner and drinks. You can go to a restaurant and not order anything, I used do it all the time (now I rarely go to restaurants). If they suggest the movies or something that requires spending, just offer something free or cheap instead.

I like doing giant jigsaw puzzles when at home. Not free, but very cheap considering how many hours a 6000 piece puzzle will take! And at the end of it, you have a cheap project of building a frame for it and hanging it up. I get lots of compliments on my giant solved puzzles. It sounds boring but it actually gets addicting...and the sense of accomplishment after 6 months of effort is amazing.

[GuitarStv]

What were your hobbies?

I figure you're asking this because of the common misconception that hobbies are expensive and you're looking for 'the cheap ones'.  That's a bad approach, hobbies need to be something that you are personally interested in.  If you need hobby guidance . . . stay away from hobbies that are simply about consuming/owning things (collecting shit, remote control vehicles/drones), and aim for hobbies that are more about skill (many sports, music, art, cooking, building, etc.).  This way they're only as expensive as you make them.  For example, I like to play electric guitar.

1. This is an extremely expensive hobby - You need to buy several multi-thousand dollar guitars, several multi-thousand dollar amplifiers, recording equipment, microphones, effects pedals, tutorials and music, rent a practice room, etc.

2. This is an extremely cheap hobby - You need a guitar (and even cheap guitars are pretty playable these days), an amp (and even cheap amps sound OK), and some time with music books from the library.  Also an occasional pack of strings.

The funny thing is . . . the guy who goes with #2 is not only more likely to stick with playing the guitar, he'll usually end up being better at it too.

How do you blow off steam after a mundane and uninspiring work week?

I usually turn to my hobbies, my friends, or my family.

How do you say no to your friends, your roommates even?

I don't.  If they want to do something that I think will be boring and expensive, I'll suggest or plan alternatives.

- Going out to a bar sucks.  Let's drink here and play video games!
- I don't really feel like going to a restaurant, let's have a BBQ here.
- I'd rather go on a camping trip  / for a bike ride / play soccer / go hiking
- etc.

How did you get used to going from excess to frugality?

I was never a big fan of excess because it honestly never seemed to make me happier.

How did you ensure longevity and sticking to the goal?

By regularly doing things that I enjoy.  If your road to FIRE feels like it's requiring great sacrifice, then you're doing something wrong.

[poetdereves]

Hey Mustache Wallace! It does get better, and at the beginning I think that one of the most important parts is figuring out what really has value to you for your time and money. Everyone is different, but most people have that one thing that if they cut out because of trying to be more mustachian they will crash and burn. You have to remember that the biggest goal of this is to find out what is important to you and to allocate your funds and time in a way that you are doing the best with your time and not just getting strung along doing things that add no value to your life.

That being said, going out does get really expensive really quickly. Cutting it out completely does remove you from a friend group that you may value, so it may be best to learn to exercise self control and learn to say no to ordering food or alcohol when you go out. A big part of it depends on your income, debt, expenses, etc.

If you're more of an extreme all-or-nothing person like I am it may be hard for you for a while. My wife catches me often going overboard with trying to maximize the funds, but forgetting that we are doing it to live a more fulfilling life. Sometimes it's important to ditch the fun to get finiances right. Other times it's probably more important to be willing to part with a few greenbacks because they are purchasing things or experiences which bring a more fulfilling life, better relationships, or good memories. Find what's important for you and aim for that. Focus less on the money and more on maximizing what's important and you'll get further along a lot quicker than sitting there checking the budget for the fifth time in a day.

[Heroes821]

The point of the frugality is not to be bored its to realize that spending money and doing fun things should not be interwoven.

I personally know that to be a "true mustacian" I should go outside and bike and exercise and enjoy the wilderness, but I have 3 small children and work a full time job so I frugally play video games and watch Netflix for my decompress time.   

Hell an argument could be made that the amount of time and money spent on World of Warcraft over the past 11 years has probably saved me thousands of dollars that would of been spent on buying other games at $60 bucks a pop that I would have played for maybe 10 hours. or going out drinking or loads of other expensive activities.

[Ocon]

A lot of good advice here friends, thanks for all the input.

As you say, it is like building a muscle. It will take time, and starting is the hard part. If you start tracking your spending for a few months, it might shed some light on just how much you spend on certain activities. Then you can go "But that would amount to zk over five years! That's crazy!" and get fueled by that.

I am fueled by that. It's why I worry about financial independence in the first place. Sometimes you do so well and then you think, 'Man, is this really how I am going to spend my one life? I know that is a bullshit way of thinking but if it happens and I don't catch myself I'll find myself $400 in the hole. My personality is definitely a pendulum that switches between extremes. Completely healthy or who gives a fuck. I'm trying to find peace in balance. I think for 25 years of my life, I lived relatively 'boring.' Never partied, never went out that much, never did much of anything. Now I have what feels like to me good money as I've always subsisted on minimum wage. I know I can exist and be content on that little, but perhaps I'm subconsciously making up for the lack of excitement up until now. 

Stop eating sugar for a while and you'll start enjoying brocoli again when you're really hungry.

I love broccoli, and I love sugar. I love both sides of the spectrum. But I do get your point. The irony is I'm very unmaterialistic but certainly a consumer of foods, beverages, night life, etc.

Why not still go out with your friends but spend nothing, or very little? Bring $5, maybe $10 in cash and leave your credit cards at home.

This is a good idea. Maybe set a limit? $10 bucks is a cover than maybe $30 max. 1 day a week translates to 4 a month. Still $120 a month. I need to start bringing nips or a flask. Sometimes they get confiscated but no risk no reward.

I figure you're asking this because of the common misconception that hobbies are expensive and you're looking for 'the cheap ones'.

It was a dumb question, I admit. No hobby can be round the clock anyways, am I right.

- Going out to a bar sucks.  Let's drink here and play video games!
- I don't really feel like going to a restaurant, let's have a BBQ here.
- I'd rather go on a camping trip  / for a bike ride / play soccer / go hiking
- etc.

This would never work. I'd be lying to myself if I asked them to do these things. I love bars. Drinking and video games is certainly a maybe. Restaurants are easy to deny. It's the night life that's hard. You go out, meet new people, drink, have fun, be merry.

By regularly doing things that I enjoy.  If your road to FIRE feels like it's requiring great sacrifice, then you're doing something wrong.

Either way, it is a sacrifice. Do I want to sacrifice my 'life' now to have a better future? Or do I want to sacrifice my future to have a better life now? I want to have as much time not working as possible - more than anything in my life. But if you get existential, and realize you could die tomorrow, or - at the very least - have that poisonous 'fear of missing out,' like me, then you will fail every time. But that's why I'm here. To develop a strategy.

Cutting it out completely does remove you from a friend group that you may value, so it may be best to learn to exercise self control and learn to say no to ordering food or alcohol when you go out.

If you're more of an extreme all-or-nothing person like I am it may be hard for you for a while.

Indeed, I'm starting to think I am extreme, or perhaps it is an excuse or self-defense mechanism for my brain allowing it to have maximum dopamine. When I go out, I think, why not go hard? I don't drink all week. I go to the gym, I cook my own food, and then I work. Friday comes and it is time to get crazy.

Hell an argument could be made that the amount of time and money spent on World of Warcraft over the past 11 years has probably saved me thousands of dollars that would of been spent on buying other games at $60 bucks a pop that I would have played for maybe 10 hours.

I could be out of line here because you have a family and far different values than I, but aren't you afraid you could wake up one day and realize you spent 11 years playing WoW. That's not judgemental. I'm afraid I'll wake up one day thinking how have I squandered so much time when I could be financially independent. I've already woken up to this day after working for a full year and realizing I could be debt free.

The point of the frugality is not to be bored its to realize that spending money and doing fun things should not be interwoven.

You're right. I know they aren't, it's just the maximum amount of fun I have right now is going out with my friends. This, inherently, costs money.

Tomorrow night, I know I am going out. The strategy is going to involve pregaming, and buying nips. So let's see here. $10 cover, no matter what. $2 on nips. Maybe a 6-pack of beer before hand. ($2/ beer). So, if I went out once a week using this strategy, that's roughly $50 a month on going out. That' only $600 a year, and if I went on like this for ten years (which I couldn't), $6,000 over ten years. Not so daunting if I could make it happen. Technically, I've created my budget to put half of my income towards loans each month, $122 to play with.

Any of you guys have schemes like this when you were younger to save money going out? Evolving to a flask would save me a lot more on booze. I can be perfect during the week. If I can nail down Friday and Saturday to reasonable (not mustachian, I know) then I could be a somewhat good spot. I could even cut down on my groceries to allow a little extra leeway for Friday and Saturday.

[gerardc]

I see you talk a lot about going out, nightlife. If that's really a hobby you enjoy, I think $40/week is totally fine. $2k/year won't kill your budget. Just compensate in other areas, get a smaller car, eat cheaper/healthier food, etc. Can't have everything!

Video games don't sound extraordinarily expensive either.

[Broadway2019]

I see you talk a lot about going out, nightlife. If that's really a hobby you enjoy, I think $40/week is totally fine. $2k/year won't kill your budget. Just compensate in other areas, get a smaller car, eat cheaper/healthier food, etc. Can't have everything!

Video games don't sound extraordinarily expensive either.

$40 a week if you go out is not a lot. I am not saying it cannot be done. But when my fiance and I go out to dinner and drinks with friends it is nearly impossible to be under $100. We live in a city and a beer will run about $7-9 a piece. Tack on $20-30 per person for dinner and you are at $100 with tip if you only have 1-2 drinks and stick with beer. I am not sure how people on this forum are going out for less but I am assuming they do not live in major cities.

We even found a bar close to home with happy hour specials and even split appetizers with friends and was at $80 with tip. Now we do this maybe once a month instead of every week. I would rather go out once a month than trying to cap my spending at $40 a week so I can actually enjoy the going out experience.

[Heroes821]

I could be out of line here because you have a family and far different values than I, but aren't you afraid you could wake up one day and realize you spent 11 years playing WoW. That's not judgemental. I'm afraid I'll wake up one day thinking how have I squandered so much time when I could be financially independent. I've already woken up to this day after working for a full year and realizing I could be debt free.

Well I used 11 years as my example because that is the time I've spent playing wow already.   I did squander a bunch of my time.  I only found MMM 2 years ago. I didn't take on a bunch of Debt until recently, do to moving/work/life changes, but to me it was a social thing, many of my friends from home played because wow took off when we all left for college. Then friends I made online over the years have actually turned into connections for jobs that brought amazing opportunities.

I could be really close to FIRE if I'd of found MMM in 2011, but I probably wouldn't have any kids, nor gotten to live in the new places I have.

[poetdereves]

I think with how much you enjoy it at this time in your life that making the effort to minimize the expense but maximize the good times is worth it. I spent all of college pregaming and carrying a flask. It worked out well for keeping more money in my pocket, but I still got to have as good a time as anyone else. Did I get caught sometimes? Yeah. Was it worth it? 100%.

The big thing is that your desires change over time, so you should make a way to do what makes you happy now by being as frugal as possible. I partied with the best of them and made it cheap, and now I don't even drink at all. Your mind changes about what is important and maybe in a couple years yours will too. Then you'll be able to take those funds and put them elsewhere. Nothing lasts forever, so enjoy yourself now, but realize that you are making trade offs and your future you doesn't always appreciate where you allocated a lot of time and money.

[Dancin'Dog]

It's easier if you can find cheapskate friends, or better yet a cheapskate mate, to hang out with.

When fighting boredom we're usually just needing something interesting or fun to do, and/or interesting folks to hang out with, right?

The key is to find people and things that fit within your budget.  It's not that hard to see the expensive, wasteful activities to avoid.  Restaurants & Bars are high on the list, and then learning to shop for good deals for your hobby stuff.  Don't let yourself get caught up in the marketing craze of wanting the "latest & greatest" new stuff.  The great things that you wanted 5 years ago are cheap today and just as fun, so get deals on great used stuff & have fun.   

[wordnerd]

1) You can spend money to be not bored (e.g., drinking in bars).
2) You can spend no money to be not bored (e.g., library books, talking walks, writing, playing music, doing yoga online, running).
3) You can make money to be not bored (e.g., start a side gig--mine is online tutoring).

Over the course of my Mustachian journey, I have moved away from #1 and toward #2 and #3. Most of time is spent in #2 (especially since having a kid). The goal isn't to never spend money, it's ensure that when you're paying for something, it is significantly better (to you) than your options in #2 and #3.

Of course, there's always #4: Embrace the Bored. My best ideas often come after being a bit bored. Quiet isn't something to run from.

[kaypinkHH]

OP, I feel like the question you were actually trying to ask here is "can I party on the weekends and still be a mustacian." And the answer is yes. I think it is great that you are now looking at options to save money, yes there will be some weekends where you say "never mind this is ridiculous, I'm just going to have a good time" and that is fine! Other weekends you may not go out, and it will all balance out. Being aware of it is half the battle.
 
But I'll answer your actual questions:

But for those of you who adapted and overcame, what were some of your strategies?
I was always pretty frugal, but after I started working my first real job I could have fallen into the spendypants trap. Bought some brandname stuff, got a fancy rental condo "because we deserved it", financed a car, went out for dinner and drinks all the time, but reading all of MMM and then other FI blogs made me realize that there is another way of life. It made me realize I don't need a $150 purse, or I probably shouldn't be spending $XX amount on restaurants every week. My strategies are looking at people 5 years older, 10 years older, 20 years older etc. and see their struggles with money/stress and go "well that is terrifying", and I go soak my beans for lunch.

What were your hobbies?
(This is over the past few years, I don't do all these things at once) I started some side hustles (tutoring, event planning, airbnb our basement), and those were "hobbies" that took a lot of my time and made me money.  I also was fairly active- trained for a triathlon, marathon etc. HUGE TIME SUCK and relatively cheap 'hobby" comparative to amount of hours spent doing it. Had a gym membership, but I recently cancelled that. Still have an old yoga pass that I'm trying to use up. Now I sign up for classes using groupons (currently taking some burlesque dance classes which is...interesting). Took some comedy classes, and could have kept enrolling, but instead I found ways to do that for cheap, so now I can go to drop in classes or shows with open jams for $5 (or for free), met a ton of people doing that, who all do shows, so I can find a comedy show any night of the week. Joined a community theatre last year and did two shows (paid $15 membership, got 6 months of acting, vocal and dance lessons AND got to put on a show at the end), volunteered for another show, which allowed me to sew/paint/be creative on someone else's budget. Also casually volunteered at a SPCA, hanging out with cute cats. DH and I enjoy trying to cook different food, so that takes a lot of time and planning, and it is delicious. We also enjoy going on bike rides to different neighbourhoods. Notice a pattern that most of these things take tons of TIME, but little money, leaving me with very little time to spend money, and they all make me feel warm and fussy for different reasons.

How do you blow off steam after a mundane and uninspiring work week?
^ all of the above, but also sometimes just Netflix. I read somewhere you should have 3 hobbies, one that makes you money, one that makes you fit, and one that makes you full (as in doesn't need to serve another purpose just makes you happy).  I try to follow that guidance, and save some time to be a vegetable.
 
How do you say no to your friends, your roommates even?
Fill my time up with other activities, so I don't have time to get sucked into spendypants activities. Hang out with people who make less money than me, or also frugal, so when I suggest cheaper alternatives, they are cool with it. But I don't say no very often, but I hack when I do get sucked in. Going out to a restaurant: I buy an app only, no one notices. Going for drinks? I have 1 drink instead of 3, no one notices. I'm only a few years older than you but at some point a switch was made for me that made me realize I don't actually like getting drunk anymore. I still enjoy the tastyness of adult beverages, but I actually prefer not to have too much on the weekend now. (Plus all the extra calories throw me off, I would rather have fries).

How did you get used to going from excess to frugality?
Realized I don't need those spendypants activities, and my life can be pretty darn awesome without it. Slowly adjusted who I spent time with, and how I tailor my life.

How did you ensure longevity and sticking to the goal?
Set smaller incremental goals. Starting at 26 and shooting for FI is way too extreme, starting at 26 and making a goal for the first $100k or a house, or a investment property etc. may be more reasonable. I try to set goals that are within 3 years of reaching, and then a second 5 year goal, and then re-adjust when I meet that goal.

[FLBiker]

I can totally relate to the "need" to constantly be distracted / stimulated / doing.  For me, this is driven by some sort of uncomfortability in my own skin (and it's taken me a long time to see that).  When I was younger, I drank / used drugs to avoid this, and when I got sober I used video games (and, later, podcasts) in much the same way.  Over time (and with the help of a regular meditation practice and supportive community) I've become much more comfortable not "doing" all the time.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't think it's really about being bored.  For me, when I say I'm bored, what I'm really saying is that I'm uncomfortable in this situation.  For example, I might be uncomfortable sitting with the thoughts in my head.  Looking at this uncomfortability, though, can be really interesting.  And it's free. :)

[CindyBS]

Have you considered tapering down instead of going cold turkey?  Like instead of going out with friends 4 times per week - cut it down to 2.  Or if you typically have 3 beers when you are out - have 1 or 2 each time.

I have a lot of cheap hobbies - reading, gardening, etc.  But I have pricey ones like travel, craft beer, chef owned restaurants, etc.  Keeping the pricey ones in check by having some limits has helped - but I definitely am not willing to sacrifice those for my future happiness. 

[sjlp]

It's not universal but many people get tired of the scene as they get older. The food doesn't taste as good as what you make at home, the music is too loud, people are spilling drinks on you, you have more of a hangover the next morning, etc. Plus you and/or your friends start having kids, which changes everything. So set a reasonable budget to spend on something that you enjoy, that seems fine. Additionally if you want to save money and have a spendy friend group, you will have to be the one to find the free/cheap activities in your area and do the planning work. People seem happy to come along but it's easy for the default activity to be restaurants, bars, etc.

[GuitarStv]

How often do you want to go out, and how much are you drinking when you do so?  Have you tried not drinking when going out?  (If that makes is less enjoyable . . . do you really enjoy going out, or are you just enjoying being intoxicated?)

[gerardc]

I see you talk a lot about going out, nightlife. If that's really a hobby you enjoy, I think $40/week is totally fine. $2k/year won't kill your budget. Just compensate in other areas, get a smaller car, eat cheaper/healthier food, etc. Can't have everything!

Video games don't sound extraordinarily expensive either.

$40 a week if you go out is not a lot. I am not saying it cannot be done. But when my fiance and I go out to dinner and drinks with friends it is nearly impossible to be under $100. We live in a city and a beer will run about $7-9 a piece. Tack on $20-30 per person for dinner and you are at $100 with tip if you only have 1-2 drinks and stick with beer. I am not sure how people on this forum are going out for less but I am assuming they do not live in major cities.

We even found a bar close to home with happy hour specials and even split appetizers with friends and was at $80 with tip. Now we do this maybe once a month instead of every week. I would rather go out once a month than trying to cap my spending at $40 a week so I can actually enjoy the going out experience.

I live in a HCOL area, $10/drink easily!

$40/week is for one person, going to a club one night a week (Friday or Saturday), no restaurant. Cover + 3-4 drinks. Go hard, almost every week is OK, obviously weeks you won't go. You shouldn't eat too much before anyway, if you're stuffed you won't have a great time and will feel the effect of alcohol less. Just trade food for drinks, basically!

[Lmoot]

As someone who really detests going out for the sake of going out, I've never been much of a movie or restaurant or concert goer. Never have, even when I was younger. It always felt like a pain in the ass to me. I spend a lot of time with family. We have movie and dinner night at someone's house every week. I have a part-time job I got just for fun, and I do that once or twice a week. I'm part of my states hiking Association, so I try to go on a hike on a weekend day at least a few times a month. Personally, scheduling something recurring gives you something to look forward to.

I personally start to feel a general sense of boredom, not because I'm not currently doing anything, but because I have nothing planned so it feels like the boredom will stretch on forever.  When you make plans, you start to see the downtime in between plans as an opportunity to not be busy, and to actually relax and enjoy it. Because later you'll be doing something. Not saying to schedule your entire life out, but if, for example a friend wants you to go out drinking or something and you have something scheduled with a meet up group, I don't know maybe you're into meditation and yoga, you have an excuse to not go. Just slowly start filling in your days.

[Ocon]

Man, this community is awesome. I feel like I have an army of support, or at least understanding, behind me that I wouldn't otherwise get in real life. I have a friend I talk to about how my only real goal is to be debt free and he cannot fathom it: "That's just how our society works, you have to take out loans for things." I simply shut down. That being said, the response is so great, I had to get on here before work.

I see you talk a lot about going out, nightlife. If that's really a hobby you enjoy, I think $40/week is totally fine. $2k/year won't kill your budget. Just compensate in other areas, get a smaller car, eat cheaper/healthier food, etc. Can't have everything!

Aiming for $50-60 a month until I can fill the void. My math isn't quite working up, but tonight will be the ultimate test. Or just the beta run.

$40 a week if you go out is not a lot. I am not saying it cannot be done. But when my fiance and I go out to dinner and drinks with friends it is nearly impossible to be under $100. We live in a city and a beer will run about $7-9 a piece. Tack on $20-30 per person for dinner and you are at $100 with tip if you only have 1-2 drinks and stick with beer. I am not sure how people on this forum are going out for less but I am assuming they do not live in major cities.

The city is relentless on my wallet. You pretty much nailed it to a T. We go into the city, party and leave. Even with no dinner, drinks and tips and covers will crush you. And then if you get drunk, and don't care anymore, you risk $100, $200 easy.

Well I used 11 years as my example because that is the time I've spent playing wow already.   I did squander a bunch of my time.  I only found MMM 2 years ago. I didn't take on a bunch of Debt until recently, do to moving/work/life changes, but to me it was a social thing, many of my friends from home played because wow took off when we all left for college. Then friends I made online over the years have actually turned into connections for jobs that brought amazing opportunities.

Again, I meant nothing by it. I only asked because I've been in and out of video games for pretty much my entire life. It's not that I hate them, I love them and am currently in the midst of CS:GO. Video games are great, I just feel like they stop me from doing other things I pretend to want more.

Of course, there's always #4: Embrace the Bored. My best ideas often come after being a bit bored. Quiet isn't something to run from.

Indeed, wise words. I think I've created a habit of going out on Friday where anything could happen. It is a new experience every time. You go out, explore the city, meet people, witness fights, bouncers, etc. - all while buzzed and merry and not worrying about a thing. The problem is, you go to bed wishing the fun never stopped and then wake up asking yourself when is it time to start getting serious about life, realizing you have nothing to party about.

OP, I feel like the question you were actually trying to ask here is "can I party on the weekends and still be a mustacian." And the answer is yes.

Pretty much. You can spend a little money and relapse and think fuck mustachianism, fuck savings - I'm living now! A flawed mindset. The trick is balance.

How did you ensure longevity and sticking to the goal?
Set smaller incremental goals. Starting at 26 and shooting for FI is way too extreme, starting at 26 and making a goal for the first $100k or a house, or a investment property etc. may be more reasonable. I try to set goals that are within 3 years of reaching, and then a second 5 year goal, and then re-adjust when I meet that goal.

Current goal is paying off my student loans. With dedication, I think I can do it in ten months. Being average, two years.

I can totally relate to the "need" to constantly be distracted / stimulated / doing.  For me, this is driven by some sort of uncomfortability in my own skin (and it's taken me a long time to see that).  When I was younger, I drank / used drugs to avoid this, and when I got sober I used video games (and, later, podcasts) in much the same way.  Over time (and with the help of a regular meditation practice and supportive community) I've become much more comfortable not "doing" all the time.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't think it's really about being bored.  For me, when I say I'm bored, what I'm really saying is that I'm uncomfortable in this situation.  For example, I might be uncomfortable sitting with the thoughts in my head.  Looking at this uncomfortability, though, can be really interesting.  And it's free. :)

Some of you guys are reading me like a book. It's creepy. I definitely don't hate myself or my thoughts, but I can't justify a night of Netflix or video games. At least not yet.

Have you considered tapering down instead of going cold turkey?  Like instead of going out with friends 4 times per week - cut it down to 2.  Or if you typically have 3 beers when you are out - have 1 or 2 each time.

Indeed, I have. Other than last weekend, we have only been going out once per week for awhile. But one night without restriction can be more expensive than two nights with it. Ultimately, cold turkey is the goal, at least for the duration of my debt.

It's not universal but many people get tired of the scene as they get older. The food doesn't taste as good as what you make at home, the music is too loud, people are spilling drinks on you, you have more of a hangover the next morning, etc. Plus you and/or your friends start having kids, which changes everything. So set a reasonable budget to spend on something that you enjoy, that seems fine. Additionally if you want to save money and have a spendy friend group, you will have to be the one to find the free/cheap activities in your area and do the planning work. People seem happy to come along but it's easy for the default activity to be restaurants, bars, etc.

I can already feel this shift happening. And I am welcoming the change.

How often do you want to go out, and how much are you drinking when you do so?  Have you tried not drinking when going out?  (If that makes is less enjoyable . . . do you really enjoy going out, or are you just enjoying being intoxicated?)

Certainly makes it less enjoyable. But I suppose my justification is I don't enjoy being intoxicated in situations other than going out. But about 1 - 2 times per week, on average. Binge drinking as they say.

The community here is awesome. You guys have been a big help and I feel actually motivated with someone in my corner. I have to go to work now, I'll report back tomorrow with how the night went.

If some of you guys are willing, check out 'My Journal.' Any feedback on that would be great.

[prognastat]

Man, this community is awesome. I feel like I have an army of support, or at least understanding, behind me that I wouldn't otherwise get in real life. I have a friend I talk to about how my only real goal is to be debt free and he cannot fathom it: "That's just how our society works, you have to take out loans for things." I simply shut down. That being said, the response is so great, I had to get on here before work.

This is probably a major reason so many are so active here. No matter how strong your constitution is, it remains tough to be constantly surrounded by people who try to convince you that spending and going to debt is how you should live life and enjoy it. It is nice to come here and read about other people who feel the same way I do on these things and reaffirm that I'm not "too crazy".

It's also nice to ask questions about something while trying to be frugal/smart and have people either support or recommend better frugal options rather than people looking at you funny and recommending you spend more for fun/convenience/appearance.

[Broadway2019]

$40 a week if you go out is not a lot. I am not saying it cannot be done. But when my fiance and I go out to dinner and drinks with friends it is nearly impossible to be under $100. We live in a city and a beer will run about $7-9 a piece. Tack on $20-30 per person for dinner and you are at $100 with tip if you only have 1-2 drinks and stick with beer. I am not sure how people on this forum are going out for less but I am assuming they do not live in major cities.

The city is relentless on my wallet. You pretty much nailed it to a T. We go into the city, party and leave. Even with no dinner, drinks and tips and covers will crush you. And then if you get drunk, and don't care anymore, you risk $100, $200 easy.

And how many people only have 1-2 drinks with friends. When I go out (which is not every week), I tend to have 4-5 drinks over several hours. So between my fiance and I that is 8 drink times about $10 including tip a drink. So $80 and that is for beer. Sometimes I switch to liquor to be "healthier" and that is more like $15 a drink. And who can resist appetizers when buzzed. It really is a downward spiral once buzzed.

We try having friends over, but many our friends have expensive tastes so than we are just supplying them good beer and food. So sometimes that is not cheaper. Even when going to a friends house we pick up $30 bottle of wine or beer so it always costs something.

[Snow]

We try having friends over, but many our friends have expensive tastes so than we are just supplying them good beer and food. So sometimes that is not cheaper. Even when going to a friends house we pick up $30 bottle of wine or beer so it always costs something.

Oh.

I must be a real cheapskate. Last week, we had a small moving-in get together. I don't drink alcohol, so I just told my friends that I didn't know what they liked, but I'd provide food and they could choose to bring their own drinks or as much water from the tap as they could wish for. No one seemed offended.

[Ocon]

Didn't end up going to the normal spot last night. I think I spent $30 dollars but could've spent significantly less. I actually spent more on pregaming than in the actual bar, especially because I shared the beers I bought beforehand. I still got pretty drunk.

But something was different in the air. I was there but I wasn't in the normal spirit. Sure, it wasn't the major city I normally go to but it normally doesn't matter. It felt different. Like everything I was doing there didn't align with who I want to be and the goals I want to achieve. Maybe I've hit the peak of fun and now I'm coming down. Getting old. Growing up. At 26, I probably shouldn't be getting wasted anyways. I'm ready to retire from the nightlife, despite all I've said in the past few posts. Or maybe I'm just really hungover. I believe it's the former.

[Lmoot]

Didn't end up going to the normal spot last night. I think I spent $30 dollars but could've spent significantly less. I actually spent more on pregaming than in the actual bar, especially because I shared the beers I bought beforehand. I still got pretty drunk.

But something was different in the air. I was there but I wasn't in the normal spirit. Sure, it wasn't the major city I normally go to but it normally doesn't matter. It felt different. Like everything I was doing there didn't align with who I want to be and the goals I want to achieve. Maybe I've hit the peak of fun and now I'm coming down. Getting old. Growing up. At 26, I probably shouldn't be getting wasted anyways. I'm ready to retire from the nightlife, despite all I've said in the past few posts. Or maybe I'm just really hungover. I believe it's the former.

  I think your problem is you are equating "fun" with only certain types of activities. Not coincidently they are similar types of activities that advertisers pound into your age group, as if it is the only way to enjoy life. I don't think it's the end of fun. It may be the end of the narrow definition of fun you've been programmed to believe in.  It takes creativity to seek and find entertainment in things outside of the obviously billed places and activities. I have always personally found going out drinking on a regular basis, to be a very lazy attempt at fun. Perhaps it will be fun again, if it only becomes a once in a while type thing. Maybe you need to make more creative friends. Not saying to get rid of the old ones, keep them around for certain activities in the city, but expand your understanding of fun and other groups of people, because everything you have previously described as fun is the opposite of fun to me. So there are different types of fun to be had for all people, all ages.

[Dancin'Dog]

You need like-minded real local folks to hang out with.  Otherwise you'll be surrounded by the normal sheep who are content giving their money away.

Go to the Mustachian Community area of the forum here and find like minded local friends. 

[Ocon]

  I think your problem is you are equating "fun" with only certain types of activities. Not coincidently they are similar types of activities that advertisers pound into your age group, as if it is the only way to enjoy life. I don't think it's the end of fun. It may be the end of the narrow definition of fun you've been programmed to believe in.  It takes creativity to seek and find entertainment in things outside of the obviously billed places and activities. I have always personally found going out drinking on a regular basis, to be a very lazy attempt at fun. Perhaps it will be fun again, if it only becomes a once in a while type thing. Maybe you need to make more creative friends. Not saying to get rid of the old ones, keep them around for certain activities in the city, but expand your understanding of fun and other groups of people, because everything you have previously described as fun is the opposite of fun to me. So there are different types of fun to be had for all people, all ages.

You are right Lmoot. The strange irony is at one point in my life, I didn't do these things and never saw the point in them. I purposely avoided my friends for months at a time because I didn't want to go to clubs or bars or what have you.

I think it was more that I was unsure how to fill the void. For months on end, I was doing the same thing over and over. It was all I knew, I guess. I just needed help figuring out because TV Saturdays weren't quite doing it for me. That being said, I stayed in tonight and had fun - watching TV. I know I have the ability to adapt, it's just a matter of adapting.

[gerardc]

That being said, I stayed in tonight and had fun - watching TV. I know I have the ability to adapt, it's just a matter of adapting.

Good, one step closer to being a retired old man :P

[NorCal]

I've always been a naturally frugal person, so these aren't things that I "grew" into, just things I do.  Here's a list of things I've done, and I credit this entire list to a lack of TV in my life.

-Go for frequent hikes
-Exercise semi-regularly (less since kid #2 arrived)
-Make my own wine
-Started my own company (which ultimately failed, but was still a good experience)
-Learn web development (related to the company)
-Woodworking (my non-mustachian hobby)
-BBQ for friends
-Learn to cook new types of food.  I make some excellent pizza and barbecue.  Mediterranean and Thai are next on my list.
-Learn Sketchup basics

I am somewhat sad that I haven't expanded this list more in the last few years.  My life has just been focused on what my kids need over what I want to learn.  Someday I hope to add some of the following to the list:

-Photography
-Basic architecture (maybe community college courses?)
-Autocad or SolidWorks
-Further my woodworking skills
-Learn a musical instrument
-Develop other artistic skills
-Maybe hike the John Muir trail or the Pacific Crest trail if I'm truly bold

Being a fairly frugal person, I've never struggled with boredom.  Heck, I wish there were more hours in the day.

Honestly ask yourself what sounds more interesting.  Being semi competent at half the list above, or having seen the latest episode of Dancing With the Stars?

Seriously, throw your TV and XBOX out the window and never look back.  Not because it will save you money, but because you will fill your life with much more interesting things.

[life_travel]

I think because you avoided partying and drinking and then you suddenly developed a " taste" for it , it feels exciting because you know ... novelty :) You don't need to stop going out , you just need to set up a limit and stick to it . Then develop some other hobbies . But in saying that , at some stage of your life you'll love partying , at some stage reading books or hiking, etc .
Main thing is do you have a budget ? How much you allow for student loan repayments ? Just set up " going out" amount for each week but make it at first generous , then decrease as you go along. Or you literally go cold turkey for 10 months ( or less!) , tell your friends you are on " paying student lan off in X months challenge ), include $10 in your grocery budget and drink at home :)

[Kwill]

What about dance -- lindy hop / swing or salsa? Typically major US cities will have both of these and will have dances on Friday or Saturday evenings that include a beginner lesson for between $12 and $15, maybe less with DJs or more with well-known bands. The thing about lindy hop / swing dances is that there usually isn't much to eat or drink at them. People may bring water bottles, or there might be a water cooler there. So you get about 4 hours of entertainment for the entrance fee plus your transportation. Salsa dances are more likely to have bars.

Once you invest the time to learn, there can be other activities that are more or less expensive. Today I went down to a city park and danced on the grass to a live jazz band for free. If you take proper lessons or go to out-of-town workshops, it can be more expensive. There might be a university in your area with free dances and lessons.

[Ocon]

Honestly ask yourself what sounds more interesting.  Being semi competent at half the list above, or having seen the latest episode of Dancing With the Stars?

Of every single TV show on air, you pick Dancing With the Stars lol. Learning and developing skills is, without a doubt, much more rewarding than feasting on entertainment. I don't even watch that much TV, maybe an hour or two per week, sometimes more, sometimes less - depending on what shows are airing. Competing with a smartphone is much fiercer foe. I find myself constantly switching between YouTube, Snapchat, random internet browsing, now Mr. Money Mustache, Twitter, email and much more for no real reason.

I'm getting back into meditation to help this monkey mind of mine, to become a man without desire so I can transcend this hairless life and become one with mustache singularity. I'll detach from my money, and my life of consumption until every last dollar of debt is paid back. 

[NorCal]

Competing with a smartphone is much fiercer foe. I find myself constantly switching between YouTube, Snapchat, random internet browsing, now Mr. Money Mustache, Twitter, email and much more for no real reason.

I'm getting back into meditation to help this monkey mind of mine, to become a man without desire so I can transcend this hairless life and become one with mustache singularity. I'll detach from my money, and my life of consumption until every last dollar of debt is paid back.

Yea, smartphones are a special kind of addicting.  I took a stab at reducing my use with some success last year.  I can't say it's worked perfectly, but it's much better than it was.  A few things that helped me:

1. I switched to an MVNO network that charges for data (Ting).  Since I actually have to pay for data, I keep cellular data "off" by default.  This helps keep me off the phone when I'm out and about.  I can still turn it on if I actually need data for something.  I also turned cellular data off for most individual apps unless there was a reason to allow the app access to cellular data.

2. I removed time-wasting apps from my phone.  All social media, news apps, and games have been removed from the phone.  I go to my computer if I ever need to use these.

[Ocon]

Yea, smartphones are a special kind of addicting.  I took a stab at reducing my use with some success last year.  I can't say it's worked perfectly, but it's much better than it was.  A few things that helped me:

1. I switched to an MVNO network that charges for data (Ting).  Since I actually have to pay for data, I keep cellular data "off" by default.  This helps keep me off the phone when I'm out and about.  I can still turn it on if I actually need data for something.  I also turned cellular data off for most individual apps unless there was a reason to allow the app access to cellular data.

2. I removed time-wasting apps from my phone.  All social media, news apps, and games have been removed from the phone.  I go to my computer if I ever need to use these.

Not an easy thing to do. I can delete all my social media apps and still find myself wasting time doing the rounds between YouTube and internet browsing, news, etc. I have often considered going back to a dumb phone simply to avoid this behavior. My phone bill is too high anyways.

[MBot]

I find to break the cycle of habit, a "fast" works well for me, as other posters have mentioned.

Eg a week without phone data

A month without buying beer or wine.

Two weeks without TV.

From what I've learned, the basis  of a fast is that you temporarily avoid a GOOD thing so you reset your appetite for it.

Sometimes it's easy to put in new habits instead (eg after a week of fasting from sugar in my tea to reset my tastebuds, I just didn't need it anymore). Or to start walking instead of turning on the TV after dinner.

But sometimes it is about the space - the awareness of how much you did that thing or consumed that thing. Just having that much space in your life can help you form new mental connections and let you be bored, you know?  I've found it valuable anyway.

[MBot]

The other strategy I've found useful is the idea of "The decision has already been made" for a set period of time. So you can easily say "I'm not doing that right now" or "no thanks" because you don't have to decide. You already know the answer. 

Let's say I've decided I'm not going out this month. This isn't forever, but not this month. So if someone invites me out this month, I know the decision has already been made. There is no weighing of options or having to consider it. You don't have to rely on your decision making power after you have decision fatigue after a hard day. You already know it's a "no.

[gerardc]

Good points, MBot. I agree about the fast.

The other strategy I've found useful is the idea of "The decision has already been made" for a set period of time. So you can easily say "I'm not doing that right now" or "no thanks" because you don't have to decide. You already know the answer. 

Let's say I've decided I'm not going out this month. This isn't forever, but not this month. So if someone invites me out this month, I know the decision has already been made. There is no weighing of options or having to consider it. You don't have to rely on your decision making power after you have decision fatigue after a hard day. You already know it's a "no.

Yes, that's a good approach. In dieting, coaches often stress the importance of planning your meals in advance (not necessarily preparing them in advance but knowing where they are coming from) because if you leave things to chance, chances are you won't make the best decision for your progress in that moment, but rather what feels good. And adding a lot of "feel good" decisions in a row doesn't get a good result.

This means you have to make good plans and decisions, so that you can trust yourself. If you decide on a plan that's not sustainable, your instincts will take over and you'll learn not to trust or respect your decisions. I see it like a parent that enforce rules to their kids: if the rules are too strict or stupid, the kid will rebel; if the rule gives good results, the kid will start trusting the wisdom of the parent. As an adult, you are your own "teacher" so you have to make good rules you will respect. This means not unnecessarily overly strict, and able to bend rules while reaping maximum benefits, when necessary.

"Deciding" to change a habit is important to be done correctly. You need to find the good reasons, not only the superficial ones, so that you stick to it in times of hardship. If you are not 100% convinced and always put your decisions into question, you will never follow your plan. So, you have to be sure of what you truly want.

[Noodle]

You are getting a lot of great suggestions! It sounds like your personality may lean more toward the extroverted, which can be hard sometimes to combine with Mustachianism. Introvert mustachians can sit home silently with a free book from the library, extroverts need more people around, which means more opportunities to spend money! I think the keys are finding the less expensive ways to extrovert and planning/being the organizer. Ie, lunch and brunch are cheaper than dinner. Breakfast at a diner is even cheaper. Happy hour is a big deal in a lot of cities. Etc. If you spend the afternoon at a big community festival surrounded by people, going home to grill on the deck is more appealing than if you've been sitting home all day. In terms of planning, a lot of people are shy about taking a leadership role because they are afraid of social consequences if things go wrong, or too lazy to do research--but they would be perfectly happy to go along to the free movie in the park instead of an expensive first-run movie at a theater if someone else plans it. If you want social occasions to be your way (ie, cheap) you are probably going to have to do the work for awhile. It will help if you start bookmarking or otherwise making note of things that seem fun or interesting, because there is nothing like being put on the spot for a recommendation. Then you end up back at the club. And in the end, if you still end up spending more money for a happy life than your introvert friends at home with their library books, that's fine. Mustachianism is about having the best balance between saving and spending, not never spending money again.

[Kwill]

Ie, lunch and brunch are cheaper than dinner. Breakfast at a diner is even cheaper.

And dessert is cheaper than lunch or dinner, but it's available at dinner time. I used to go out with a group to a restaurant on Friday nights when finances were a bit tight. Some people would be having drinks and others dinner, so it wasn't strange to not have the same thing. I would order a dessert for $5 or so, which would have enough calories and fat to tide me over until I got home and could eat properly. They had nice big desserts there, which I wouldn't have tried if I were having dinner. So I was happy and for most of the time people just thought I had a big sweet tooth -- which is not untrue.