Author Topic: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)  (Read 6835 times)

F313

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Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« on: February 16, 2017, 09:01:00 AM »
Greetings fellow Mustachians,

I need some advice, or maybe just a therapy session.

My Profile

I’m 52, married, one kid (15 yrs).  I’ve been a government lawyer my whole career – 27 years now.  I’ve been topped out forever, and make about $145k currently.  Wife works half time and makes about $35k, but that may not last too much longer and could go down as her job is pretty tough for a half-time gig.

I’ve got a vested pension that will pay a monthly benefit of $5500, if I were to retire now.  That will go up substantially year by year if I keep working, eventually maxing out at full salary in my early sixties.  The pension includes medical insurance, which is also fully vested now.  I will also get SS, assuming it’s there in 15+ years.

I’ve got a paid off house worth about $450k (actually, will be paid off in 18 months freeing up $2k a month going to mortgage now), and about $600k in various accounts - 401/457, 529, cash.  My wife will also eventually have a small pension that is vested and would kick in around 62 yrs old., eleven years from now. We will be living in a zero-tax state in an area with average COL.  We have no other debt, and no expensive hobbies.  Daughter will likely go to a public univ. 


My Issue

I’m really tired of practicing.  Just going in is a grind, and I am starting to experience physical effects from the stress more acutely than when I was younger.  After 27 years, I’ve guess had enough.  A part time job in retirement, as long as the responsibility level is low and it does not come home with me, will be fine.

I worry about walking away from a good salary, and foregoing a larger pension that will come from more years. So many of my neighbors are financially stressed, and worrying about losing their jobs at my age, that even considering bugging out now makes me feel a little guilty.  I also wonder about how it will feel not having the ‘prestige’ of a serious job and title – that's a bit exaggerated, but you know what I mean.  And finally, concern about money is always in the background.

Would you retire? Have you been in a similar position?  How’d you deal with the above concerns?

I guess I’m looking for reactions and brainstorming. I'm thinking about trying to get the pension up to $6500/mo. with a few more years of work, but sometimes the thought of even another month of work is tough to take.

Again, any input/observations would be greatly appreciated.

(oh, and by the way, for me, government law has been a good gig overall.  It’s best to get in early though.  Most of my law school classmates who went to firms quit law long ago, or they're dead now.  A very very few made big money that's lasted. )


tarheeldan

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2017, 09:15:32 AM »
How much do you guys spend per year? This is the key, in terms of FIRE or downshifting.

You said your pension would already be $66k/yr. It's federal or state? Why do you need $78k/yr? See above.
You have another $24k/yr with a 4% withdrawal rate on your $600k. How much once you take into account daughter's public univ?
You could downshift to part-time and supplement that.
Wife's pension is additional safety net.

I can't help about your feelings about "status" but who cares what people think :-)



Laura33

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2017, 10:49:34 AM »
Hi from someone in a similar situation (50/25 yrs of practicing, but not in gov't, and not quite as desperate).

What I do when I feel like you do is sit down and run my numbers.  Looks like as of today, you'd have about $7500/mo to spend (I wouldn't count on your wife continuing to work given the issues you mentioned with her job, but obviously talk to her about whether she would want to continue working in some form and thus would give you more income to play with).  How does that compare to what you'd like to spend in retirement?

One idea that I got from this site that may work well for your situation in particular is the idea of "buckets" of $ for a certain period of time.  Yours could break down something like this:

Bucket 1:  52-55:  Assume expenses are comparable to where they are now (X), because you still have kid at home.  Income is A (your pension).  Bucket 1 = delta between your pension and your expenses (X - A) x 3 years in this period. 
Bucket 2:  55-59:  Assume higher expenses (X + Y) because now you have college tuition.  Bucket 2 = [(X+Y) - A] x 4 years.
Bucket 3:  59-62:  Assume lower expenses, because college done and kid out of house (X-Z).  Bucket 3 = [(X-Z) - A] x 3 years.
Bucket 4:  62-67:  Assume same expenses (X-Z) but, higher income because of DW's pension (A + B).  Bucket 4 is now [(X-Z) - (A + B)] x 5 years
Bucket 5:  67-90:  Assume same expenses (X-Z), but higher income because of DW's pension and your SS (A + B + C).  Same math -- Bucket 5 = [(X-Z) - (A+B+C)] x [# of years] [note that you may get into negative numbers here, if your expenses are less than your projected income -- this is good]

Etc.  Note this setup is pretty complex -- you could also just use some simpler assumptions and fewer buckets [e.g., I see your mortgage goes away shortly before your DD goes to college, so that might all be a wash].  But the general idea is to calculate these different buckets, each of which represents the total amount of money you need over a specific period of time.  And then you back-calculate how much you need invested *today* to cover all of those buckets, and compare that against your current savings.

So for ex, for your first bucket period, say your current expenses are $6500/mo.  Since your pension is $5500/mo, you will need an extra $12K/yr x 3 years = $36K to cover that period.  Since Bucket 1 starts today, there's no real net present value, so basically you need to set aside $36K out of your $600K stash today to cover the next three years. 

So now you have $564K left.  For the next bucket period, say your expenses go up to $8500/mo. (college).  Now you need $36K/yr x 4 years, or $144K invested.  But you don't need that until 3 years from now.  So you can back-calculate (based on conservative assumptions) the amount of $ you need today to make sure you have $144K in 3 years.  Say that's $120K.  So you need $120K out of your remaining $564K to cover that 4 years.  Now you have $444K left. 

Basically, rinse, repeat for each bucket (note I am ignoring the growth of your stash within each bucket period for simplicity's sake, but you can calculate that in too).  So if you get to the end and discover that, say, the pensions + SS are enough to cover you from 67 on, and your stash is enough to cover the difference from now until 67, you are good to go and may FIRE when ready.  OTOH, if you are short, this can give you a really good idea of where and why and exactly how much more you need.  Personally, I found this much more helpful than the standard 4% rule, as we plan much higher expenses for @ the first 10 years of retirement than after.

It's probably also more accurate to do it backwards - if you start with the furthest-away period and move towards the present, that tells you exactly how far away you are.  E.g., if your current investments will get you from 58 until you die, then all you need to do is fill the bucket that covers 52-58.  For me, that helps focus, because you can really see how additional savings will cut weeks or months off your work life. 

With respect to the emotional issues, that I can't help with, because I'm right there with you.  The only thing that I know is that it always works better when you are running to something than when you are running away from something.  My personal plan between now and FIRE is to spend the time figuring out what, exactly, I am going to do to use my time productively and in a satisfying manner once I pull the plug on the career.

CheapScholar

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2017, 11:29:14 AM »
Maybe consider university in house legal jobs?  Or a planned giving director job for a university?  Both pay pretty well.  You'd have less stress and might receive a nice higher ed tuition break for your son in a few years.

I'm a JD working in higher ed.  All my lawyer friends are miserable but I have a nice life.  I only make 110K but I have access to university fitness facilities, will get a tutition break for my kid when he goes to college, great 403b plan, great insurance, and other benefits.  I'm typically home by 5:30 most days and I don't have any stress in my life.

Iplawyer

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2017, 11:34:22 AM »
Maybe consider university in house legal jobs?  Or a planned giving director job for a university?  Both pay pretty well.  You'd have less stress and might receive a nice higher ed tuition break for your son in a few years.

I'm a JD working in higher ed.  All my lawyer friends are miserable but I have a nice life.  I only make 110K but I have access to university fitness facilities, will get a tutition break for my kid when he goes to college, great 403b plan, great insurance, and other benefits.  I'm typically home by 5:30 most days and I don't have any stress in my life.

And how many of these jobs open up in a year? 

ysette9

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2017, 11:40:50 AM »
You haven't said what your spending is, but unless it is outrageous I don't see why you don't quit now. Between your pension, SS, and the money you have saved, that is a healthy sum to live off of. Is your pension indexed for inflation? Do you know what is holding you back from FIRE? Is it concerns about having enough $ or are there deeper psychological things to plow through? I wonder if you might benefit from reading Dr Doom's Quit Series (the blog is LivingaFI).

F313

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2017, 11:56:00 AM »
You haven't said what your spending is, but unless it is outrageous I don't see why you don't quit now. Between your pension, SS, and the money you have saved, that is a healthy sum to live off of. Is your pension indexed for inflation? Do you know what is holding you back from FIRE? Is it concerns about having enough $ or are there deeper psychological things to plow through? I wonder if you might benefit from reading Dr Doom's Quit Series (the blog is LivingaFI).

Ha, my wife would confirm deeper psych issues for sure.  As far as spending, of course that's the wild card.  I see many on this site describe their retired life as pleasant on $3k a month, particularly if housing costs are low and the have access to a low cost medical plan.  I doubt we could do that, but I am thinking I may be closer to what would work for us than I previously thought.

I appreciate all the posts above, and any that follow.  I am trying to absorb insights and wisdom from people who have lived through this.

As far as work, heck, I was thinking about a half time job at the local courthouse in the clerk's office or probation department, or maybe an agency or nonprofit that helps vets, or maybe in admissions at a local college. 
Anything with a title like 'Director' may be pushing it.. ; )

Thanks again for all the thoughtful responses.

CheapScholar

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2017, 12:08:21 PM »
Maybe consider university in house legal jobs?  Or a planned giving director job for a university?  Both pay pretty well.  You'd have less stress and might receive a nice higher ed tuition break for your son in a few years.

I'm a JD working in higher ed.  All my lawyer friends are miserable but I have a nice life.  I only make 110K but I have access to university fitness facilities, will get a tutition break for my kid when he goes to college, great 403b plan, great insurance, and other benefits.  I'm typically home by 5:30 most days and I don't have any stress in my life.

And how many of these jobs open up in a year?

In house legal jobs are hard to find, I admit that.  Regarding a Planned Giving Director or Planned Giving Officer, those are much easier to find IMO.  Of course, it all depends how many universities are near you.  I work in fundraising myself but not in Planned Giving (I'm considering it when I get grey hair).  Anyway, I know many Planned Giving professionals.  The vast majority are JDs.  It's VERY easy work from a legal POV - any JD could master it in a few weeks.  It's mostly a relationship based job where you work with donors and their lawyers to iron out estate gifts or set up CGAs. 

marion10

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2017, 12:10:32 PM »
I think healthcare is a big issue. If you leave now- what will you do?

Yankuba

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2017, 12:16:20 PM »
I think healthcare is a big issue. If you leave now- what will you do?

"The pension includes medical insurance, which is also fully vested now."

F313

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2017, 12:23:09 PM »
I think healthcare is a big issue. If you leave now- what will you do?

"The pension includes medical insurance, which is also fully vested now."

Yes.  Having this benefit locked down was a prerequisite to me even starting this discussion.  It will cover (over 95% of monthly costs for PPO) me, wife, and kid to age 26.

Retire-Canada

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2017, 12:40:03 PM »
Would you retire?

Would I retire with a $5.5K/month pension + medical benefits + $600K in investments and nearly finished paying off a $450K house? Heck yes. Like today. Your life and health is worth far more than accumulating more wealth you don't need. If you live off the pension your investments will grow into millions funding any reasonable luxury stuff you might want.

I guess I would ask this question...what would you gain by working more other than adding more money to a pile that's already too big?

If I was you I would retire. Relax for a year and try and reverse as much health damage as you can. Then decide what you want to do with the rest of your time on this planet.

FinallyAwake

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2017, 12:56:27 PM »
What you would do with your retired life?  Are you someone who will likely still find pleasure in doing a little bit of work?  Or do you want to cut ties with working forever?

If it's the former, I would set the retire date for the month you pay off the house.  Setting a firm count-down timer for 18 months from now will likely start lifting the stress/burdens of the job immediately.

In the meantime, start causally looking for these lower stress jobs that don't come up often.  If the perfect one does show up, take it!  If it's at the local university where you can get a tuition break for your daughter, that would be even better.

When you find this new fun job, you might even considering selling your current house and downsizing to be closer to the new place, putting even more cash in your stash.

Good luck and congrats on the healthy nest egg!
 

F313

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2017, 01:33:26 PM »
What you would do with your retired life?  Are you someone who will likely still find pleasure in doing a little bit of work?  Or do you want to cut ties with working forever?

If it's the former, I would set the retire date for the month you pay off the house.  Setting a firm count-down timer for 18 months from now will likely start lifting the stress/burdens of the job immediately.

In the meantime, start causally looking for these lower stress jobs that don't come up often.  If the perfect one does show up, take it!  If it's at the local university where you can get a tuition break for your daughter, that would be even better.

When you find this new fun job, you might even considering selling your current house and downsizing to be closer to the new place, putting even more cash in your stash.

Good luck and congrats on the healthy nest egg!
 

Yes, actually, this is pretty much my current default decision.  It also makes sense due to some school issues and other family considerations.  Thanks for weighing in.  Now, if time only went as fast when I'm at work, as when I'm not.....

Bee21

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2017, 04:09:01 PM »
Can you go on a long vacation once you pay off the house and see how it feels? Line up a few hobbies and a bucket list. I wouldn't worry too much about the mo ey side, that seems to be covered. It is more like a what to do in my next phase of life sort of question.

pbkmaine

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2017, 04:16:44 PM »
Start tracking your spending.

Viking Thor

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2017, 04:29:02 PM »
Would you retire?

Would I retire with a $5.5K/month pension + medical benefits + $600K in investments and nearly finished paying off a $450K house? Heck yes. Like today. Your life and health is worth far more than accumulating more wealth you don't need. If you live off the pension your investments will grow into millions funding any reasonable luxury stuff you might want.


This is a good summary of the financial picture, which sounds quite positive. Of course only you can decide how much money you want to have/ spend in retirement, how you feel about work, how badly you want to retire, etc. If you did retire though, you would be in great shape financially compared to most people.

Dee18

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2017, 06:07:50 PM »
Are you using all your vacation?  Would you like your job at 3 days a week?  I was a government lawyer for many years.  Almost no one took all their vacation (myself included) and few asked for part time work, although it was often arranged when requested.  You have enough to retire now, but f you decide to stay 18 months, consider either if these changes.

chrisgermany

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2017, 03:18:16 AM »
Track your expenses for 6 months at least while you try to live on your estimated pension.
Get DW on board.
I was in a similar situation and age, now happily retired for 3+ years.
The tracking over years made us confident to be able to live well on pension.

ysette9

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2017, 08:31:15 AM »
https://livingafi.com/2015/02/17/i-could-quit/

This is the first blog entry of Dr. Doom's The Quit Series. At this point he is financially able to retire and struggles with the emotions of quitting. He ends up seeing a therapist for a few times to help him get to theroot of what is holding him back. I am not saying you need to do the same, but it could be very enlightening to see how someone else wrestled with the same sorts of things you are now and came out the other side a happier man.

Nick_Miller

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2017, 09:22:37 AM »
Would you retire?

Would I retire with a $5.5K/month pension + medical benefits + $600K in investments and nearly finished paying off a $450K house? Heck yes. Like today. Your life and health is worth far more than accumulating more wealth you don't need. If you live off the pension your investments will grow into millions funding any reasonable luxury stuff you might want.

I guess I would ask this question...what would you gain by working more other than adding more money to a pile that's already too big?

If I was you I would retire. Relax for a year and try and reverse as much health damage as you can. Then decide what you want to do with the rest of your time on this planet.

I'll co-sign this one.

Fellow attorney here as well, about a decade younger than you. I TOTALLY get the grind aspects of the profession. I think your family is in GREAT shape. In your position, I'd retire tomorrow. With you pension, and your significant savings, and your almost paid off house, you're in very solid shape to have a super enjoyable (and long!) retirement. Plus you're only 10 years or so from taking full SS benefits? Damn.  Again, I'd retire tomorrow if I were in your shoes.

Find something fun to do with your time. We just get this one trip.

F313

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2017, 09:23:26 AM »
Are you using all your vacation?  Would you like your job at 3 days a week?  I was a government lawyer for many years.  Almost no one took all their vacation (myself included) and few asked for part time work, although it was often arranged when requested.  You have enough to retire now, but f you decide to stay 18 months, consider either if these changes.

Yup.  I've got 10 months on the books.  I accrue more than two days a month.  I take time off every month, and will likely take the balance at then end.  I didn't mention it, but I am factoring that in.....
Good observation/suggestion.  Thanks

Catbert

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2017, 10:51:12 AM »
With regards to the prestige aspect of retiring...I retired in my mid-50s as a manager with 100+ employees in my department.  While I would never admit it IRL I enjoyed the prestige aspects of my job within the organization.  When I retired I got over it pretty quick.  Probably because when I retired I.was.done.

I was given several opportunities to work in my former organization and sister ones on a contract.  It was not uncommon for retired senior people to come back to work on special projects. One of the reason I turned down those offers was because they lacked the prestige of my former position.  No young computer literate person would happily create spreadsheets for me, etc.  (Plus I.was.done. and didn't need to work.)   So if part of your financial plan is to get a lower stress, maybe part-time job consider your need for prestige. 


F313

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2018, 09:22:08 AM »
I posted this thread nearly a year ago.  As an update, my house is paid off, and I am now planning on retiring in August 2018 after burning some left over vacation time.  As noted, I am looking at a pension of about $5400 a month and my health benefits (a ppo) are covered.  Our stock/IRA/401k holdings have increased with the market. We also have $100k earmarked for kid's college, still likely to be a state university.

I must admit that I still worry about what retirement holds for me/family, both financially and otherwise.  But the stress from work is as bad or even worse than ever. I think a lot of people are sandwiched like this, it's not fun.

Anyone out there worked through a situation like this recently? Any tips?  Did you seek out new, less demanding, more pleasant work post retirement? How long did decompression take?

« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 09:23:58 AM by F313 »

ZMonet

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2018, 10:15:44 AM »
I don't have the answers for you, but it seems like you have the unique ability to test drive retirement, at least for a short while.  Instead of taking the vacation time in a lump sum payout, couldn't you go on a "sabbatical" where you use all your vacation time?  You could lean towards retirement but not have your paperwork in to technically end your job, giving you the ability to go back if you find you are too bored, nervous about expenses, etc.?

The prestige issue is a very real one.  Many people define themselves by their work and never adjust after retirement.  I think some of that is because they retire too late in life to redefine themselves.  What are you going to do with your time?  How will that thing impact your budget?  Honestly, you do sound a bit like you are running away from something more than you are embracing the benefits of retirement, but only you can figure that out.  Good luck...and, most of all, congrats on doing such an awesome job of setting yourself, and your family, up to have these options at such a young age!

marshmallowaddict

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2018, 12:48:22 PM »
I posted this thread nearly a year ago.  As an update, my house is paid off, and I am now planning on retiring in August 2018 after burning some left over vacation time.  As noted, I am looking at a pension of about $5400 a month and my health benefits (a ppo) are covered.  Our stock/IRA/401k holdings have increased with the market. We also have $100k earmarked for kid's college, still likely to be a state university.

I must admit that I still worry about what retirement holds for me/family, both financially and otherwise.  But the stress from work is as bad or even worse than ever. I think a lot of people are sandwiched like this, it's not fun.

Anyone out there worked through a situation like this recently? Any tips?  Did you seek out new, less demanding, more pleasant work post retirement? How long did decompression take?

No advice to offer but congrats on your progress!!

EconDiva

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2018, 01:12:51 PM »
I posted this thread nearly a year ago.  As an update, my house is paid off, and I am now planning on retiring in August 2018 after burning some left over vacation time.  As noted, I am looking at a pension of about $5400 a month and my health benefits (a ppo) are covered.  Our stock/IRA/401k holdings have increased with the market. We also have $100k earmarked for kid's college, still likely to be a state university.

I must admit that I still worry about what retirement holds for me/family, both financially and otherwise.  But the stress from work is as bad or even worse than ever. I think a lot of people are sandwiched like this, it's not fun.

Anyone out there worked through a situation like this recently? Any tips?  Did you seek out new, less demanding, more pleasant work post retirement? How long did decompression take?

First off, CONGRATULATIONS on the great job you've done with your finances and preparing for the future. 

Second, I'm not someone who's in a position to advise on the financial aspect of your situation (not "full blown" mustachian or close to retirement, etc....plus it looks like you're already all set to retirement anwho which is awesome).  However, you've mentioned more than once I believe that you worry about what life is going to look like for you.  You mentioned before about the whole aspect of not having the prestige anymore that goes along with the type of work you do.  I personally feel there are some people who get a lot of worth or sense of self/identity and fulfillment from their work.  I'm not one of those people and I'm not saying for sure you are but...you might be.  If this is the case it's important not to downplay the impact no longer working might have on you.  I feel like you are about to enter a new, totally different stage of life so I feel you on the concerns.  (Although I'd love to be in your position of retiring soon and like to think I'd have no concerns with your type of stache but I kinda get where you're coming from.)

Anyways, since you posted almost a year ago, are you any closer to figuring out what your time will be spent doing once August 2018 comes?  How do *you* want your life to look once you are no longer working full time?  Where will your sense of fulfillment come from?  Do you have hobbies, activities, etc. now that you plan to put your time into?  (I'm assuming your work life doesn't leave much time for this?)  Or are there things you've been wanting to try for a long time but due to work couldn't and now you have them on a list to tackle? 

Will you be working part time and spending more time with certain family members and traveling?  Lots of things to do with this extra time - time to think about how it will be spent.  This may sound a bit far out but I might recommend you seek out someone such as a counselor or life coach or someone along those lines at some point soon.  My reasoning is because you are entering a new stage of life no different to me than getting married or having a child or getting divorced etc. etc....sometimes it really helps to have someone assist in sorting through any concerns, plans, lack of plans, etc. and the feelings that come along with this type of change in one's life. 

Congrats again and good luck!

BNgarden

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2018, 02:02:45 PM »
You could check out your local continuing ed / university general interest courses to see if there are any about preparing for retirement, beyond the financial aspects.  I attended one that used this group's resources / questionnaire:

https://www.retirementoptions.com/our-assessments/retirement-success-profile/

Also, I loved this book for outlining what transitions are generally like and how they feel (possibly available through your library system):
https://www.amazon.com/Way-Transition-Embracing-Difficult-Moments/dp/073820529X

I personally have retired before having all non-financial aspects in good shape.  I believe this transition will be as powerful as those at earlier life stages, and I want to be open to a wide(r) spectrum of possibilities.  I don't want to limit myself to only what I can imagine just now...  But I agree some markers / intentions are useful for coping with the unstructured days in the meantime.

Good luck!


MrUpwardlyMobile

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2018, 06:15:49 PM »

I also wonder about how it will feel not having the ‘prestige’ of a serious job and title – that's a bit exaggerated, but you know what I mean.  And finally, concern about money is always in the background.

Lawyer to lawyer, let me give you this advice that is intended to help.  There is no prestige in being a lawyer.  Only self important lawyers and their parents think being a lawyer is prestigious or important.  If being a lawyer makes you miserable, and you can afford to do something else with your life, do it. The legal profession is misery, drudgery, tedium and stress.  Most of the jobs out there do not involve that sick to your stomach stressed out hyper focus that being a lawyer involves.  Run don’t walk to doing something else.

Believe it or not, there are tons of jobs that will pay you six figure salaries and not involve misery.  The happiest lawyers I know are those that don’t practice and earn 90-130k per year as insurance claims managers. Great benefits, flexible work rules, and low stress work.  You’re making 145k, which really isn’t enough to plead the golden handcuffs rationale that binds many of us.

Can you Retire, take the pension and work in the private sector? If you can, you’ll actually earn more than you currently do, work less and be even more financially well off.


CloserToFree

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2018, 08:18:08 PM »
Another lawyer here, though I'm only 37 so admittedly lack the wisdom that comes from your experience, F313.  But my two cents - pull the trigger and retire.  It seems you're putting a lot of thought into the scenario where you outlive your money/ run out of money/ find yourselves wanting to spend more.  But (and sorry to be morbid) what about the scenario where one of you drops dead or gets diagnosed with a degenerative, terminal, or otherwise life-altering illness?  How much would you hate your current self for plodding along for one more year (or more)?

Fully paid off house, substantial cash/investments cushion, guaranteed $5k/month+ pension and health care - you're basically sitting on the aspiring early retiree's dream right there.  The concerns and hesitations are real, but remember to focus on all the positives and growth opportunities that will come with freeing up your time.  Not to mention relationship building opportunities with your wife and daughter.  I have no doubt you'd be able to find some sort of paid work to scrape together more money if you truly end up needing it.

I'm excited to see with your recent updates that you're planning to retire this August - I really hope you go forward with it!  Best of luck to you.

Nick_Miller

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2018, 06:43:53 AM »
I posted this thread nearly a year ago.  As an update, my house is paid off, and I am now planning on retiring in August 2018 after burning some left over vacation time.  As noted, I am looking at a pension of about $5400 a month and my health benefits (a ppo) are covered.  Our stock/IRA/401k holdings have increased with the market. We also have $100k earmarked for kid's college, still likely to be a state university.

I must admit that I still worry about what retirement holds for me/family, both financially and otherwise.  But the stress from work is as bad or even worse than ever. I think a lot of people are sandwiched like this, it's not fun.

Anyone out there worked through a situation like this recently? Any tips?  Did you seek out new, less demanding, more pleasant work post retirement? How long did decompression take?

Just my two cents, but if you feel the need to earn a little money in FIRE, make sure it's something you 100% love doing, something that brings you joy. Otherwise, what is the point? You have a pile of money, a pension, health insurance for life, an expensive paid-off house, $100K in your kiddo's college fund, and so......what is your worry again? Hell, can't you live off the pension and let that Stache pile up even more? It should double in 10 years, assuming 7 percent returns.

Fellow attorney here, and I would consider FIREing on a lot less, and I have 2 kiddos. The main obstacle for many of us is health insurance, and you have that covered. You've done a great job getting your ducks in a row. Go enjoy the next 20/30 years of your life!

itchyfeet

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2018, 07:28:11 AM »
Can we assume the pension is indexed? It’s not mentioned I don’t think.

Assuming it is I would be wanting to pull the trigger in your position..... I kind of am....

I am 46 in a fairly senior position in a megacorp. I don’t have the nice pension you have, but DW and I have saved an amount to be almost in the same excellent financial position as you. Maybe not quite, but close.

I am tired of work, especially the politics, the pressure and the travel. I ponder FIREing all the time.

But I am really unsure. I suppose this is natural. It’s a big decision.

But For me, I am 100% committed to giving retirement a trial run as soon as I am at 25x expenses by quitting my job and going travelling for 6-12 months. If after that I want to work I’ll find a new job. I won’t be under any financial pressure to find a job quickly so even if it takes a while that is ok. Also, salary won’t be overly important as The main reason for me working won’t be money. I’ll just be working because that’s what I want to do with my time.

I have read many accounts of people that returned to working after a middle aged gap year re-energised and motivated. I could see that being the case for me.

If on the other hand I don’t want to work, then that’ll be fine too.


Bicycle_B

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2018, 04:05:08 PM »
@F313, have you read any Ernie Zelinski books?

If not, check out the titles linked below.  Your local library probably has copies of these.  They discuss many ideas about how to enjoy retirement.  You could use them as starting points for your own explorations.

https://www.amazon.com/How-Retire-Happy-Wild-Free/dp/096941949X

former player

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Re: Advice and a little therapy maybe, (for early 50's lawyer)
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2018, 02:33:12 AM »
Retired government lawyer here, got out at 50 several years ago with the paid off house and the pension, etc.

Decompression took most of a year.  Getting a rescue dog 9 months in helped both psychologically and physically (former farm collie, likes to be out and about).

I did a bit of consulting work, but didn't need it financially and stopped after 18 months: when you've got enough money and your time is your own I didn't find that trading time and freedom for money I didn't need and would have to pay 40% tax on wasn't worth it.

What do I do in retirement?  Keep house and garden, manage my two rentals, walk the dog, get elected/re-elected as a parish councillor and so influence how my community develops, support local volunteer groups with my work and expertise, go to concerts, see friends and relatives, practice on the piano and guitar, spend a bit too much time on this forum in place of all other social networks.