Coasting into Grad School?

[Scio5]

With the wacky stock market the last while, I've gotten into CoastFIRE/BaristaFIRE territory, which feels wonderful!
I'm feeling unmotivated at my job, and mostly want more vacation time. I discovered that if I can get a Teaching or Research Assistanceship at the state university the stipend they offer would currently cover my monthly expenses!

Getting into a research lab will be the biggest hurdle (I do have one Masters degree and my career has some tangential relevance to the program I'm looking at), but ~$25k for about 20 hours a week and ten months a year sounds perfect. Has anyone else used grad school as a Coast/BaristaFIRE plan? Especially after being out of college for a decade or so?

[clarkfan1979]

I did a 2-year MA and 5-year Ph.D for a total of 7 years. It was approximately 60 hours/week of work during the semester and 30 hours/week during winter break and summer break. My 20-hour week assistantship was actually 25-30 hours/week worth of work.

The program was competitive. When I applied, they had around 80 applicants and 4 spots.

When you are a grad student your labor is exploited beyond normal conditions of what would  be considered legal. It's legal because the work you perform for your advisor is actually a learning experience.

When I was in my MA program, I enrolled in a 1 credit teaching experience class, which was required for the degree. As part of the 1-credit class, I had to teach my own 3-credit class of undergrads. Yes, I had to pay money to enroll in a 1-credit class to teach a class of undergrads. 

[Scio5]

Ooof, thank you for the reality check!

[roomtempmayo]

I'll just second what @clarkfan1979 said.

Getting a graduate assistantship isn't really separable from the process of pursuing the degree.  It's an always-on culture, and there's often no clear line between your paid assistantship role and your student/apprentice role.  There's nothing Coast about it, you'll be working all the time for very little money.  As a job, rather than training for a future job, it makes no sense.

[Scio5]

Thank you! My first MS was a professional degree and I had an outside internship, so I didn't appreciate that the lines with an assistanceship would be so blurred. It might still be worthwhile as job training into a field that I think is more interesting than where I am now, but I should not expect it to be *actually* 20 hours a week and ten months a year of paid work in terms of Coasting.

[maisymouser]

Posting to confirm what other replies have said, don't expect to work less than 40 hours a week and that kind of role.. at least from my experience in stem grad school.

[bryan995]

Echo what the others have said.  A PhD is no walk in the park.  You will be pushed out if you cannot perform.

I would also look at it from the lost income angle.  If you give up XXX income for 5 years, what is your ROI to then come out ahead?
It may even become harder to then find work after a PhD ... if all you want are the coast-fire/barista-fire type jobs.

After 60+ hours per week for 5 years, I have now >15x'd my student stipend.  Was it worth it?  Absolutely.

[Freedomin5]

If you want to just work a few hours and cover expenses, you might be better off tutoring or teaching a university course or two, especially if you already have your masters and no real desire to get a PhD.

[Metalcat]

I really don't understand.

You are planning to register for a graduate degree just so that you can be an TA/RA part time?
But what about the work of the graduate degree itself??

Also, yeah, what others said. Your time and boundaries are rarely respected as a grad student. Also, if you are accustom to being treated like an autonomous adult, you are probably in for a very rude awakening of what being a grad student is like.

[ender]

I would not do this for the money.

I have considered doing a PhD later in life as part of my FIRE plans but not because of the money - because I won't need the money and will be more free to spend time on that type of work.

But as others are saying, grad school is about as far from "coast FI" as possible.

[Arian]

I agree with other posters - a PhD is really hard work. I recall working late into the night, and most weekends too.

However, in my experience, I found that I also had a lot more autonomy doing a PhD than I did working as an employee in industry. It was easier to take time off when I wanted, and leave when I wanted (except when I had pre-existing commitments such as tutoring undergraduate classes or a presentation/meeting). I just had to make sure that the work was done.

I am in the UK, so perhaps my experience would differ to those in the US or other countries. 

[ender]

I agree with other posters - a PhD is really hard work. I recall working late into the night, and most weekends too.

However, in my experience, I found that I also had a lot more autonomy doing a PhD than I did working as an employee in industry. It was easier to take time off when I wanted, and leave when I wanted (except when I had pre-existing commitments such as tutoring undergraduate classes or a presentation/meeting). I just had to make sure that the work was done.

I also wonder how well I'd be able to manage in a PhD program now vs when I was just finishing undergrad.

When I did my research masters right after my BS, I... had no idea how to work or be effective with time management. I suspect if I went back I could accomplish a ton more in a much more normal working hours approach than I would have if I had chosen to do a PhD immediately following my masters.

[FLBiker]

I agree that I wouldn't call it coasting but, for me, grad school w/ a TA-ship was pretty enjoyable.  I went to a great program in a great location (Hawaii), taught two classes a semester, and was enrolled in my MA program full-time.  I was fairly busy but it certainly didn't feel relentless.  I had plenty of time for snorkeling, hiking, etc.  Of course, this was an MA, not a PhD.

I don't remember exactly what I got paid, but I'd guess it was somewhere around $18K per year (in 2004).

[Kwill]

Could you just get a part-time job as an assistant in one of those labs? That way you'd actually get the short hours and so forth without actually having to do the degree. Plus, you'd have a chance to become more familiar with the people and the environment, and you could come to a more informed opinion of whether or not it's for you.

I agree with the various reality check comments. Also, there are plenty of unemployed or underemployed PhDs, so it won't necessarily lead to more opportunities, even if you finish the degree. It might make it harder for you to barista-fire after graduation because "Dr Scio5" sounds overqualified for a coffeeshop.

On the other hand, if you like the idea of doing a PhD for its own sake, go for it and don't limit yourself to applying at the local state university unless you really need to stay local or unless the local place is very good for your subject. If you're going to do it, try to find the best program you can.

[OtherJen]

To add to the chorus, I have a PhD in a biomed science. I finished in 5.5 years, and that was approximately 40-50 hours of lab time per week (including some very early mornings, evenings, and weekends) plus another 10-20 hours of study, data analysis, and writing at home. My advisor and I had a long-standing Friday night ritual wherein I booked time on popular equipment from 6-8 PM, collected my data from experiments that I'd spent all week setting up (using models that I'd spent a couple of years developing), went home, ate dinner, did the preliminary data analysis, uploaded that to the server, and then went back and forth via email with the advisor as he picked apart the data from his home (depending on the results and his mood, this could go until midnight). I loved what I did and have absolutely no regrets, but it was very hard work, a true labor of love.

There's no coasting through a PhD. A decent dissertation committee will not allow that. However, if you are willing to work hard and truly love the subject, I certainly won't discourage you. I'm still amazed that I got to spend 5.5 years getting paid to do work that I loved AND came out with a doctorate. If you simply like the idea of making $25K per year to work in a lab, I'd recommend applying for research assistant positions. I did that for 5 years before going back to school, and I enjoyed it immensely.

[Metalcat]

Could you just get a part-time job as an assistant in one of those labs? That way you'd actually get the short hours and so forth without actually having to do the degree. Plus, you'd have a chance to become more familiar with the people and the environment, and you could come to a more informed opinion of whether or not it's for you.

I agree with the various reality check comments. Also, there are plenty of unemployed or underemployed PhDs, so it won't necessarily lead to more opportunities, even if you finish the degree. It might make it harder for you to barista-fire after graduation because "Dr Scio5" sounds overqualified for a coffeeshop.

On the other hand, if you like the idea of doing a PhD for its own sake, go for it and don't limit yourself to applying at the local state university unless you really need to stay local or unless the local place is very good for your subject. If you're going to do it, try to find the best program you can.

Yeah, there are tons of lab tech type jobs in research that OP could look into. Half the people in my lab weren't grad students.

[Scio5]

Thank you, everyone! It's a good reality check that it certainly wouldn't be an easy coast, but part of the appeal is also that I *could* go back without really worrying about money for a few years while my 'stash grows in the background.

I'm hopeful that IF I got in, it would be a 'labor of love' situation, but that's certainly never guaranteed. I'll also look into the lab tech jobs that aren't part of a grad program, thank you for the suggestion!

[PDXTabs]

I have considered doing a PhD later in life as part of my FIRE plans but not because of the money - because I won't need the money and will be more free to spend time on that type of work.

Me too, but the older I get the dumber the idea sounds.

[Kwill]

When I was in a PhD program at a fancy school, I often thought it would be a great place to live if you weren't doing a PhD or working full time. Many college/university towns like that have constant events and activities, many of which are free or low cost and open to the public. Things like concerts, plays, musicals, lectures, exhibitions, tours, etc. Pre-Covid, they also often had receptions with food and beverages after the events. You see retirees going around taking advantage of them, but wouldn't it be great to live in a town like that if you were retired young or working part-time so that you were closer to the average age of the students and post-docs?

Edit to add: One thing to be aware of about working as a grad student is that it doesn't count toward Social Security if that matters to you.

[maisymouser]

When I was in a PhD program at a fancy school, I often thought it would be a great place to live if you weren't doing a PhD or working full time. Many college/university towns like that have constant events and activities, many of which are free or low cost and open to the public. Things like concerts, plays, musicals, lectures, exhibitions, tours, etc. Pre-Covid, they also often had receptions with food and beverages after the events. You see retirees going around taking advantage of them, but wouldn't it be great to live in a town like that if you were retired young or working part-time so that you were closer to the average age of the students and post-docs?

Edit to add: One thing to be aware of about working as a grad student is that it doesn't count toward Social Security if that matters to you.

Are you sure about that? I checked my social security numbers recently and my years of measly income did in fact count toward SS. Maybe it was because I was a "research assistant" as opposed to a "teaching assistant" or something... Would be curious to hear from others on this topic.

[Spiffy]

When I was in a PhD program at a fancy school, I often thought it would be a great place to live if you weren't doing a PhD or working full time. Many college/university towns like that have constant events and activities, many of which are free or low cost and open to the public. Things like concerts, plays, musicals, lectures, exhibitions, tours, etc. Pre-Covid, they also often had receptions with food and beverages after the events. You see retirees going around taking advantage of them, but wouldn't it be great to live in a town like that if you were retired young or working part-time so that you were closer to the average age of the students and post-docs?

Edit to add: One thing to be aware of about working as a grad student is that it doesn't count toward Social Security if that matters to you.

Are you sure about that? I checked my social security numbers recently and my years of measly income did in fact count toward SS. Maybe it was because I was a "research assistant" as opposed to a "teaching assistant" or something... Would be curious to hear from others on this topic.

Yes, it counted when my husband was getting his PhD. I don't remember what the job title was though. We just called it a stipend.

[ender]

Mine masters (paid as an RA) did not count for SS purposes.

[OtherJen]

When I was in a PhD program at a fancy school, I often thought it would be a great place to live if you weren't doing a PhD or working full time. Many college/university towns like that have constant events and activities, many of which are free or low cost and open to the public. Things like concerts, plays, musicals, lectures, exhibitions, tours, etc. Pre-Covid, they also often had receptions with food and beverages after the events. You see retirees going around taking advantage of them, but wouldn't it be great to live in a town like that if you were retired young or working part-time so that you were closer to the average age of the students and post-docs?

Edit to add: One thing to be aware of about working as a grad student is that it doesn't count toward Social Security if that matters to you.

Are you sure about that? I checked my social security numbers recently and my years of measly income did in fact count toward SS. Maybe it was because I was a "research assistant" as opposed to a "teaching assistant" or something... Would be curious to hear from others on this topic.

Yes, it counted when my husband was getting his PhD. I don't remember what the job title was though. We just called it a stipend.

Mine counted towards SS. I had to pay taxes and both halves of FICA on my stipend as a grad research assistant and made estimated tax payments 4 times per year. It was like being a salaried contractor, but with benefits (full tuition scholarship, health insurance, 4 weeks PTO).

[Kwill]

Maybe it depends how it was set up. In the years I was in grad school in the US, I have some social security points scattered here and there from specific jobs that had taxes deducted or from work where I was considered an independent contractor, but my main work was not counted. It ended up mattering a lot because I was in grad school for about 12 years and have otherwise mainly worked overseas. It's just the way it worked out for me, but fortunately the UK and US have a reciprocal agreement on credit toward social security / state pension.

[Askel]

So I took a couple years off to work on a funded PhD, but I've worked in higher ed pretty much all my life so I'm somewhat familiar with the gig. 

One thing not mentioned is that the difficulty/stress of a program can vary a lot between fields and majors. 

Some fields are just very competitive and everybody will be working crazy hours just to make it in the field.   In some fields (like mine), the resulting pay cut as opposed to working in industry is popularly referred to as "costing you a house"- as such, competition is low and advisors will work hard to keep good students around. 

So while I worked a lot in my years "off", it was very much by my own choice- I set my hours and direction on the projects I worked on.  I even took a couple weeks off one summer to go on a bicycle tour.

Of course, my relaxed attitude may explain why I'm going into my 7th year of this right now (but back to working a full time gig), but it's been enjoyable and I would certainly do it again if I had to do it over. 

[clarkfan1979]

Thank you, everyone! It's a good reality check that it certainly wouldn't be an easy coast, but part of the appeal is also that I *could* go back without really worrying about money for a few years while my 'stash grows in the background.

I'm hopeful that IF I got in, it would be a 'labor of love' situation, but that's certainly never guaranteed. I'll also look into the lab tech jobs that aren't part of a grad program, thank you for the suggestion!

It is possible to work as a research assistant separate from being a grad student. You would probably need a Bachelors degree. It's not common because those gigs typically go to the existing grad students. However, if a prof is bringing in a large amount of research dollars and they don't have enough grad students to fill the positions they might post a job for 20 hours/week for the remaining length of the grant. You will be paid hourly and won't be expected to work beyond 20 hours. If could be a way to work in a higher education environment without the extra hours and stress.

[bryan995]

My PhD did not count towards SS. 

However, I was able to negotiate a special deal with my PI where I was technically both a staff scientist and a phd student at the same time.  The dual appointment allowed me to 1) collect 2x the student stipend and 2) qualify for the state retirement program.  I now have 8 years of service towards a state pension. 

Later in life I plan to end out my career working for that same state, to hit the 10 years needed to vest.  Icing on the cake is that the pension benefit is computed as the average of your highest 2 years salary.  At 10 years of service I should qualify for both health-insurance coverage as well as 25% of salary yearly payout.

[Spiffy]

I was wrong. I wasn't going to bother to check, but my husband's SS info came in an email today and I looked to see that all of the grad school years except the last one had a big fat $0 listed as income.

[OtherJen]

This is fascinating. In my program, we were all instructed to pay full state, federal, and FICA taxes on our stipends.

[Askel]

Just went back and reviewed my paystubs- I did pay federal and state tax on my stipend, but there are no deductions for SS/Medicare.   

Interesting in that when I took on an adjunct gig in addition to my RA duties for more income, I still didn't have any SS/Medicare deducted.   

Kinda fun being at the same university in some role or another since I left high school over 25 years ago- I have an almost entirely complete record of my paychecks. 

Back to my first one working in the cafeteria as a freshman: 20.8 hours at $4.35/hour.   

[Kwill]

This is fascinating. In my program, we were all instructed to pay full state, federal, and FICA taxes on our stipends.

I reported my income on my taxes, but how do you pay FICA if it's not taken out automatically? I didn't think that was an option. Maybe they set it up differently for you there.