Author Topic: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?  (Read 10344 times)

mozar

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How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« on: June 27, 2016, 08:29:07 PM »
Greetings all you spatially competent people!
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 01:43:11 PM by mozar »

deborah

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2016, 10:32:30 PM »
I'd switch the dishwasher and the stove. That way the door of the fridge can be opened while the stove is going (and I'm fairly confident you will want to do this). It also means the heat from the stove won't heat up the fridge as much.  A side benefit is that the knobs on the cooktop will be against the wall, and you won't be always dragging things over the top of them.

You don't appear to have any cupboard space, which would be a problem (where will you store the dishes you wash?). Are you right or left handed - which side do you use when you take things off the stove etc.?

pbkmaine

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2016, 12:00:00 AM »
Do you really need a dishwasher?

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2016, 03:15:24 AM »
What about putting in a corner sink and switching the stove and dishwasher like Deborah suggests?

DeltaBond

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2016, 07:09:37 AM »
Kitchens are such a pain... corner cabinets are something I try to avoid at all cost, that's why I personally prefer galley kitchens. 


mozar

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2016, 07:53:14 AM »
I'm including enough space to open a fridge in my measurements.
I don't personally need a dishwasher but my roommate uses it.
The cupboards are above.
Would it be ok to put a stove right next to a wall?
Smaller sink is a possibility.

pbkmaine

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2016, 07:54:55 AM »
I'm including enough space to open a fridge in my measurements.
I don't personally need a dishwasher but my roommate uses it.
The cupboards are above.
Would it be ok to put a stove right next to a wall?
Smaller sink is a possibility.

They have 18 inch dishwashers and also dishwasher drawers.


mozar

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2016, 09:14:17 AM »
Is it worth it to get a mini size stove and dishwasher so I can have a regular size fridge (20 cubic ft )?

Miss Piggy

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2016, 12:35:27 PM »
Honestly, I recommend taking your measurements to a kitchen designer (Home Depot or Lowes will design a kitchen for free...just make an appointment first). They will have some good ideas for maximizing the space you have. The image you've shared shows almost zero counter space. That would bother me more than having a small stove or mini-dishwasher. Is there counter/island space on an opposite wall? Or are we seeing it all?

mozar

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2016, 12:56:41 PM »
There is a counter on the wall across from the dishwasher but its too shallow for food prep. The only counter space I have now is on top of the dishwasher and the area between the stove and the wall. Having an undermount sink would help.

tonysemail

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2016, 02:10:00 PM »
have you read stuff like this?
http://www.ikea.com/ms/en_JP/rooms_ideas/kitchen_howto/JP/zones_and_layouts.html

arranging fridge->sink->stove is supposed to save you time and make your kitchen work better.

mozar

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2016, 04:09:20 PM »
I think moving the sink plumbing is unnecessary, especially if I am buying all new appliances. And there is no need to save time, lol. All three are literally right next to eachother.

deborah

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2016, 04:21:05 PM »
I was assuming that the lack of counter space would be lessened by a sink chopping board or similar - see http://www.reece.com.au/bathrooms/products/kitchen/sink-accessories

bonjourliz

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2016, 05:18:21 PM »
Try putting the stove on the short wall. Corner cab with lazy Susan if there's room. Then dishwasher, sink, fridge & pull-out ceiling height pantry on the long wall.  Yes you won't be able to open both the oven and the d/w at the same time but oh well. 

Or, sink on short wall. Corner cab w/lazy Susan.  Dishwasher, stove, fridge & pull out pantry on long wall.

You don't want a fridge immediately adjacent to a wall -- will make it hard to open fridge doors. But even a very skinny pull out pantry cabinet can go adjacent to a wall, and will give you room to open the fridge doors.


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Mother Fussbudget

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2016, 05:21:38 PM »
You have a classic galley kitchen.  I once knocked out a wall between my galley kitchen and the dining room, and made a much larger open-floor-plan style kitchen.  If you're thinking in terms of resale value, open-floor plan is the way to go (IMHO).

What is on the other side of the wall with the stovetop, sink & dishwasher?
Could you make more room in the kitchen by re-configuring the walls, and taking space from another room?

MsPeacock

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2016, 06:12:37 PM »
You have a classic galley kitchen.  I once knocked out a wall between my galley kitchen and the dining room, and made a much larger open-floor-plan style kitchen.  If you're thinking in terms of resale value, open-floor plan is the way to go (IMHO).

What is on the other side of the wall with the stovetop, sink & dishwasher?
Could you make more room in the kitchen by re-configuring the walls, and taking space from another room?

I did this as well and it was such an improvement.

Given the very small space I think small stove, dishwasher, and sink are the way to go. Also, why not under mount the sink? It is much easier to keep clean. I don't think your plans adequately account for things like space for the fridge door to swing open (wider than fridge body) and room for plumbing connections and such. Agree about seeking some professional consultation. What about cabinets?

mozar

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2016, 07:26:06 PM »
That's an interesting idea about the stove etc on the short wall. The closet on the fridge side is 21 inches deep. I'm not keen on removing it because it's the only storage on the first floor. And that wall is load bearing. I'm open to removing part of the wall though. I guess I have to break out the google sketch up. What a pain.

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Given the very small space I think small stove, dishwasher, and sink are the way to go.

But not a small fridge?

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What is on the other side of the wall with the stovetop, sink & dishwasher?
My neighbors house


DCKatie09

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2016, 07:32:46 PM »
If you're looking for a smaller fridge (which I would pick over a smaller stove, any day of the week - only 2 of us in the house, and we have a chest freezer in the basement), we went with the Summit counterdepth one, which was easily the smallest footprint fridge I managed to find out there that wasn't like 10 cubic feet - it's 26" square, and 13 cubic feet. And pretty cheap, as far as fridges go.

We had similar layout issues in our small galley kitchen - I could not open my old refrigerator door all the way because it ran into the stove, and had very little counterspace. The new fridge, installing the microwave over the stove, and adding a couple floating shelves on the wall with the shallow lower cabinets all made a huge difference in functionality.

MsPeacock

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2016, 07:38:43 PM »
That's an interesting idea about the stove etc on the short wall. The closet on the fridge side is 21 inches deep. I'm not keen on removing it because it's the only storage on the first floor. And that wall is load bearing. I'm open to removing part of the wall though. I guess I have to break out the google sketch up. What a pain.

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Given the very small space I think small stove, dishwasher, and sink are the way to go.

But not a small fridge?

Quote
What is on the other side of the wall with the stovetop, sink & dishwasher?
My neighbors house

All small appliances. I would probably forego the dishwasher in favor of a cabinet.... I am having a bit of trouble making heads or tails of the drawing, so I am mostly going on comments from other posters.

MKinVA

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2016, 04:10:28 PM »
I'm not doing the math, but what about a full size wall oven on the other side of the room, a drawer dishwasher under the sink (saw this in France), and then a smaller built in cook top next to the sink.

mozar

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2016, 08:01:18 PM »
That sounds hella sleek.

mozar

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2016, 09:08:15 PM »
update. in kitchen1 there was a shallow 14 inch counter top, which in kitchen 2 has a stove top.

deborah

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2016, 01:12:54 AM »
I had a kitchen with little storage, and I made built in bookcase floor to ceiling with shelves that were six inches wide. This stored all my jars, food etc, and was really good. I suspect you could incorporate something like this in your kitchen.

Daleth

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2016, 03:23:58 AM »
Do you really need a dishwasher?

Let me rephrase: do you really need a 24" dishwasher? How do you even have enough dishes to fill it, in such a small kitchen? This kitchen is crying out for an 18" dishwasher.

Also, WTF is a 32" stove? The standard width of an American stove is 30". So that buys you two inches right there. You could also consider an apartment sized stove (24"), but if you're concerned about prospective buyers I wouldn't do it--everyone will think, "But what about my Thanksgiving turkey?!"

Here is my prescription for you, going from right to left:

1: 18" dishwasher. These range all the way from $250 models at Sears Outlet or wherever to $700+ Bosch ones (very snazzy but above all VERY QUIET). And forget about that 2" to the right of the dishwasher (if I'm interpreting your drawing right). You don't need it. Unless you have some very thick, tall woodwork as your kitchen baseboard, the DW can be flush with the wall--there, I just saved you 8 inches (6" for the DW and 2" for the clearance).

2: Ikea Domsjo single-bowl sink (http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S29093555). The AWESOMEST THINGS about it are: (a) it goes all the way back to the wall, so you don't need to pay for a fancy countertop cutout to fit the sink--just slap a piece of counter to the right and another one to the left; (b) it has "lips" on either side that let it rest on the countertop, which helps make it easy to install and means you can use formica with no fear of moisture issues in the particle board under the formica--just run a line of silicone caulk down either side of the sink to seal the countertop and you're good; and (c) it's cheap--$185.99. If that doesn't look cheap to you, try shopping for kitchen sinks... We have this sink in our fanciest rental and it looks great, performs great, was easy to install etc. This sink is 25" wide, but that includes the lips that sit on the counter, so really it takes up the space of a 24" sink.

3: A 30" stove. There, that's another 2", for a total savings of 10".

You now have plenty of room for a normal-sized fridge, although personally I wouldn't recommend putting your fridge along the same wall as everything else because then you have hardly any counter space, and most of it (the 18" above the dishwasher) isn't near the stove, which is where you need it. Here are some ways to fix that problem:
  • You could have some to the left of the stove between it and the fridge and some (18") to the right of the stove if you moved the sink all the way to the right and put the DW between the sink and the stove.
  • You could get some sort of island that gives you both counter space and seating area... we have this one: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/60323021/
    It seats two on the opposite side and the shelves are great storage for pans--they're lined with stainless steel so there's no paint to maintain, and as your kitchen is configured, they would be facing the stove.

If you do put the fridge on this wall, make sure you get one that opens from the right (i.e. handle is on the right). Imagine opening and unloading your fridge with the handle on the left and you'll see why. Handle on the left is pretty standard, however, so make sure you check that yours either comes on the right or is "field reversible" (can be swapped out when you install it). Also, with a tiny kitchen set up like this it may be well worth it to pay extra for a counter-depth fridge.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 03:41:31 AM by Daleth »

bonjourliz

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2016, 04:51:08 AM »
update. in kitchen1 there was a shallow 14 inch counter top, which in kitchen 2 has a stove top.
Assuming you can find appliances these sizes (I'm not familiar with non standard sizes), this drawing is much better use of space.

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boarder42

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2016, 06:08:11 AM »
why not just move the range to the island why have an oven on the opposite side and cooktop on island?

mozar

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2016, 10:41:02 AM »
Stove is already 30,  sink is already 25, so no space savings there. I didn't say I was against a 18 inch dishwasher. Haven't looked at oven sizes. I was thinking of only removing the top half of the wall where the electric stove top is in kitchen2, which means there would not be enough space to open the oven without backing into the dw.

I'm not really that concerned with creating more counter space or storage space. As long as I don't decrease it.

Counter depth fridges are usually 28 inches deep, and my counter on the dw side is 25 inches deep, and are just as wide as any regular size fridge, usually wider.

9-Volt

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2016, 11:40:34 AM »
Have you considered a 2 burner cooktop?https://www.amazon.com/Summit-Electric-Cooktop-Burners-Voltage/dp/B005IHNG5G They're only 12" wide, but don't have an oven. When I renowed my condo, I used a 2 burner like this and just had a good toaster oven. When I needed to do big things (turkey or ham) I just used a bbq.

Daleth

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2016, 08:20:38 AM »
Stove is already 30,  sink is already 25, so no space savings there.

Oh, the 32" stove you mentioned must have been a typo then. But there is still space savings if you re-read the post, and the savings is fairly significant in a kitchen this size.

Counter depth fridges are usually 28 inches deep, and my counter on the dw side is 25 inches deep, and are just as wide as any regular size fridge, usually wider.

25" counters are standard depth. The counter depth fridges are around 28" deep because the extra 2-3" is the door--if the door was flush with the counter, you wouldn't be able to open it.

mozar

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2016, 12:32:33 PM »
Nope, never mentioned a 32 inch stove. Anways depth isn't an issue, it's width.

CmFtns

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2016, 12:40:33 PM »
Mozar you should use ikea's 3D designer to create your space even if you have no interest in buying anything from them. Then you can look at your designs in 3D and place and resize all your appliances and see how it looks/fits. It is slow, laggy, and a pain to use most of the time but on the plus side it is easy to access, easy to learn controls, and it's free.

http://kitchenplanner.ikea.com/US/UI/Pages/VPUI.htm
« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 12:45:54 PM by CmFtns »

LeRainDrop

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2016, 02:41:41 PM »
Stove is already 30,  sink is already 25, so no space savings there.

Oh, the 32" stove you mentioned must have been a typo then. But there is still space savings if you re-read the post, and the savings is fairly significant in a kitchen this size.

Nope, never mentioned a 32 inch stove. Anways depth isn't an issue, it's width.

Yes, you did.  It's in your original drawing.  Considering how much time Daleth must have spent putting a thoughtful response together solely for the purpose of helping you, one would think you'd be a little less dismissive.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 02:46:57 PM by LeRainDrop »

teen persuasion

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2016, 03:00:27 PM »
You can cook a turkey in a 24" apartment size oven.  I've been doing it for >20 yrs.  I prefer pretty big turkeys, too, for our family of 7 and lots of leftovers.  Sixteen inch pizza pans are a challenge, though.

Look into codes - you will need a certain number of inches of counterspace on either side of the stove and the sink.  You will also need a certain amount of floor space in front of and adjacent to things that open like the stove and dishwasher.

Is there traffic thru the space, or is it a dead end on the right?  Think about a cook using the space and another person passing thru - you need enough room between walls.

Moving plumbing pipes is a big hassle to be avoided if possible, especially for just a few inches.

Is it possible to have the fridge outside the cook zone?  That is the most reasonable element to move out - currently my fridge is on an entirely different floor from the kitchen.  Not recommending this, but it's not too big a deal - we are in the middle of a slow remodel of our main kitchen, and using the kitchen of an upstairs apartment we've partially reintegrated into the rest of the house, while the fridge merely was pushed thru a door to an adjacent room before we sealed off the construction zone. 

If you do retain fridge/sink/stove in the same room, think about your logical work progression.  I prefer the sink between the other elements, it flows better.  The previous kitchen had the sink in a distant corner beyond both stove and fridge, and it was maddening.

mozar

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #35 on: July 01, 2016, 04:41:27 PM »
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You can cook a turkey in a 24" apartment size oven.

Good to know.

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Look into codes - you will need a certain number of inches of counterspace on either side of the stove and the sink.  You will also need a certain amount of floor space in front of and adjacent to things that open like the stove and dishwasher.

Do you know where I can find this information? I read somewhere that you need 12 inches between the stove and fridge and I haven't been able to find it again.

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Is there traffic thru the space, or is it a dead end on the right?

Dead end

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Is it possible to have the fridge outside the cook zone? 

I guess so. The whole bottom floor is only 460 feet. I'm thinking that I'm just going to have to take out the closet on the left. Which is too bad because it's the only closet on the first floor.

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Considering how much time Daleth must have spent putting a thoughtful response together solely for the purpose of helping you, one would think you'd be a little less dismissive.

I found Daleths comments to be condescending and unhelpful so he/she is dismissed!

teen persuasion

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2016, 06:10:05 PM »
I'm having trouble finding definitive code numbers, but most seem consistent on minimums.  Some call them recommended, some say "must have at least".

http://www.houseplanshelper.com/kitchen-dimensions.html

http://www.kitchens.com/design/layouts/nkba-guidelines/nkba-guidelines

15" next to fridge, handle side
12" on one side of stove, 15" on other side
18" on one side of sink, 24" on other side
40" aisle between counters if one cook; 48" if 2 cooks
34" doorway 

bonjourliz

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #37 on: July 05, 2016, 08:40:31 PM »
The mention of 32" for a stove was likely to account for clearances on each side. 

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Daleth

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #38 on: July 07, 2016, 01:33:13 AM »
I found Daleths comments to be condescending and unhelpful so he/she is dismissed!

Wow, oversensitive much?! Good luck with your life--you'll need it.

See, I can do condescending and unhelpful, although that's not at all what I was doing in my original post. Just thought I'd throw it in here so you could see the difference. :)

CmFtns

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #39 on: July 07, 2016, 06:38:48 AM »
I found Daleths comments to be condescending and unhelpful so he/she is dismissed!

Wow, oversensitive much?! Good luck with your life--you'll need it.

See, I can do condescending and unhelpful, although that's not at all what I was doing in my original post. Just thought I'd throw it in here so you could see the difference. :)

I agree, I thought your original post took some time to write and was meant to be helpful... Idonno what's up with mozar's comment.

mozar

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #40 on: July 07, 2016, 09:27:14 AM »
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Good luck with your life--you'll need it.

I don't need any luck, my life is awesome sauce. Since you're so freaked out about a comment on an anonymous forum, you're the one who needs luck.

john6221

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #41 on: July 07, 2016, 11:58:48 AM »
Haha. Wahhh. You want other people to do the work for you and then you are a prick when you get called on your own mistake? Turd.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2016, 12:00:30 PM by john6221 »

Cassie

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #42 on: July 07, 2016, 02:32:17 PM »
In the house we live in now there is about 4 inches between stove and refrigerator and in the past i lived in another house the same way. When we moved the refrigerator was 14 yo and still working so don't know why you need 12".

mozar

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #43 on: July 07, 2016, 03:58:07 PM »
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Haha. Wahhh. You want other people to do the work for you and then you are a prick when you get called on your own mistake? Turd.

Wow, name calling, that's mature. Lol, some people get so worked up in this forum.

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I'm having trouble finding definitive code numbers, but most seem consistent on minimums.  Some call them recommended, some say "must have at least".

http://www.houseplanshelper.com/kitchen-dimensions.html

http://www.kitchens.com/design/layouts/nkba-guidelines/nkba-guidelines

15" next to fridge, handle side
12" on one side of stove, 15" on other side
18" on one side of sink, 24" on other side
40" aisle between counters if one cook; 48" if 2 cooks
34" doorway

Thanks for this.

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In the house we live in now there is about 4 inches between stove and refrigerator and in the past i lived in another house the same way. When we moved the refrigerator was 14 yo and still working so don't know why you need 12".

Good to know.

Miss Piggy

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #44 on: July 07, 2016, 04:13:12 PM »
In the house we live in now there is about 4 inches between stove and refrigerator and in the past i lived in another house the same way. When we moved the refrigerator was 14 yo and still working so don't know why you need 12".

4 inches? Like with a little tiny cabinet and countertop? Interesting.

My neighbor has her stove adjacent to her fridge, as in zero inches between them. Seems awkward to me, but she makes it work.

Cassie

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #45 on: July 07, 2016, 05:10:04 PM »
There is nothing between the stove and refrigerator. Our other house they were practically touching. You find this in many old houses with small kitchens. OUr refrigerator just died and we actually bought one that was less wide by 3 inches to give a little room.

Dicey

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #46 on: July 07, 2016, 11:33:38 PM »
I found Daleths comments to be condescending and unhelpful so he/she is dismissed!

Wow, oversensitive much?! Good luck with your life--you'll need it.

See, I can do condescending and unhelpful, although that's not at all what I was doing in my original post. Just thought I'd throw it in here so you could see the difference. :)

I agree, I thought your original post took some time to write and was meant to be helpful... Idonno what's up with mozar's comment.
Wow! Have aliens possessed mozar's body? This is not a person who's normally much of a flamer, IIRC. There must be some rational explanation for these last few comments.

Daleth, I am truly shocked at mozar's reaction to your considerable efforts. You can design a kitchen for me any time, kind person. And I'd gladly pay you for your efforts. Alas, I am not in need of a kitchen at present.

Daleth

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #47 on: July 11, 2016, 11:42:15 AM »
In the house we live in now there is about 4 inches between stove and refrigerator and in the past i lived in another house the same way. When we moved the refrigerator was 14 yo and still working so don't know why you need 12".

4 inches? Like with a little tiny cabinet and countertop? Interesting.

You could probably fit a vertical spice drawer into a space that size, although putting spices right next to the main heat source might not be a good idea. You might also be able to fit a pullout for cookie sheets and cutting boards. Personally I would always prefer at least 6" and ideally a lot more, so that the counter space is usable--at least in 6" of space you could put things like a canister containing spatulas, cooking spoons etc., a bottle of olive oil, and that kind of thing. But you wouldn't be able to turn most pans that way (handles to the fridge side) and you wouldn't have any elbow room... also, when getting ingredients out of the fridge, you wouldn't be able to put them down between fridge and stove; you'd have to set them elsewhere, which is less efficient.

I mean, there are far worse problems to have but personally I would always want AT LEAST 12" of counter between fridge and stove.

Daleth, I am truly shocked at mozar's reaction to your considerable efforts. You can design a kitchen for me any time, kind person. And I'd gladly pay you for your efforts. Alas, I am not in need of a kitchen at present.

Thank you! :)
Let me know if you're ever redesigning, or have a friend who is--I can point you/them to the website where I learned everything I know. I hesitate to post it here for fear that our friend the flamer might go aggravate people there.

Cassie

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Re: How should I reconfigure my tiny kitchen?
« Reply #48 on: July 11, 2016, 03:47:46 PM »
I have lived in newer homes where you get counter space between the refrigerator and stove but for older homes often you do not.  You just get used to  it. This is my 2nd home with not much space between them.  No big deal.

pbkmaine

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