Author Topic: Attention computer SW/HW experts...  (Read 8092 times)

deek

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Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« on: March 01, 2018, 04:55:27 PM »
I’m going to save towards a higher performance desktop or laptop and I’m not sure which route to go. This would be used for video/photo editing and I just want awesome processing so everything is quality.

Would I save more money buying a desktop and updating parts over time? My understanding is that after a few years, laptops have to be replaced and good ones aren’t cheap. Any assistance would be appreciated!

daverobev

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2018, 05:43:57 PM »
You can do a lot more with a desktop, and it is cheaper, because you're working with a much more tolerant thermal envelope (= bigger fans, bigger heatsinks).

You can get 1kW power supplies for desktops and dual graphics cards. You can fit 3, 4 hard drives if you want.

But... you can't take it to the coffee shop (well... you can... but you shouldn't). Also, if the power goes out, your desktop goes off.

deek

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2018, 05:54:15 PM »
You can do a lot more with a desktop, and it is cheaper, because you're working with a much more tolerant thermal envelope (= bigger fans, bigger heatsinks).

You can get 1kW power supplies for desktops and dual graphics cards. You can fit 3, 4 hard drives if you want.

But... you can't take it to the coffee shop (well... you can... but you shouldn't). Also, if the power goes out, your desktop goes off.

Yes, the lack of mobility is definitely a downfall.

ketchup

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2018, 06:29:30 AM »
Do you actually care about mobility?  That's the real question here.  If that's a deal-breaker, then you'd regret not getting a laptop.

Otherwise a desktop is better in every way.  It's cheaper in the short-term and long-term, more customizable, longer-lasting, you're actually able to repair stuff if something breaks, and you're able to upgrade beyond just maxing the RAM and upgrading the HDD in a few years.

Especially if you're doing photo/video editing, you're going to want a lot of horsepower, and even a fancypants laptop will be limiting in that arena.

Lady SA

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2018, 07:27:27 AM »
I'd also recommend a desktop unless mobility is your primary requirement. For photo/video editing, you are better off with some extra horsepower and a larger, high quality screen.

This way you can get a large, high-quality monitor and splurge for a good graphics card. If you are brave, you can build the computer from scratch with custom parts based on your needs: you need a box, motherboard, powersupply, graphics card, etc. As long as everything works with the motherboard, you are golden, and you can get a higher quality computer for a lot cheaper (as you can wait and shop around for deals for each component) than buying a plug-and-play desktop tower.

We have a huge, 4k monitor on our home tower and it is amazing for the graphic design dabbling that I do.

edit: also another perk for a desktop is better ergonomics. The monitor can be at the correct height for your eyes and your keyboard and mouse can be separate, unlike sitting hunched over a laptop. Laptops are ergonomically the worst. If you will be spending large amounts of time on a computer, having proper posture is worth it.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 07:30:23 AM by Lady SA »

dcheesi

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2018, 07:35:57 AM »
I'd also recommend a desktop unless mobility is your primary requirement. For photo/video editing, you are better off with some extra horsepower and a larger, high quality screen.

This way you can get a large, high-quality monitor and splurge for a good graphics card. If you are brave, you can build the computer from scratch with custom parts based on your needs: you need a box, motherboard, powersupply, graphics card, etc. As long as everything works with the motherboard, you are golden, and you can get a higher quality computer for a lot cheaper (as you can wait and shop around for deals for each component) than buying a plug-and-play desktop tower.

We have a huge, 4k monitor on our home tower and it is amazing for the graphic design dabbling that I do.

edit: also another perk for a desktop is better ergonomics. The monitor can be at the correct height for your eyes and your keyboard and mouse can be separate, unlike sitting hunched over a laptop. Laptops are ergonomically the worst. If you will be spending large amounts of time on a computer, having proper posture is worth it.
Technically, a lot of this can also be done with a laptop dock. Best of both worlds if you need the mobility but also want a proper workstation for long hours of productivity.

SunshineAZ

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2018, 08:13:01 AM »
If you will be doing lots of photo editing, I would suggest a desktop as well.  It is a lot easier to add RAM, disk space and update your video card with a desktop.  I take nature photos, mostly hummingbirds and other critters, so I do a lot of editing and having a proper desktop with a 27 inch monitor makes it much easier.  I would never try to do that on a laptop.  (However, I am admittedly not a huge fan of laptops in general because I like computers that I can easily take apart and update.)  Plus, these days I can use my phone for most of the things that I would normally do on a laptop. 


JLee

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2018, 10:05:11 AM »
With the ridiculous costs of RAM and video cards lately, you may be better off buying a prebuilt desktop.

If you will be doing lots of photo editing, I would suggest a desktop as well.  It is a lot easier to add RAM, disk space and update your video card with a desktop.  I take nature photos, mostly hummingbirds and other critters, so I do a lot of editing and having a proper desktop with a 27 inch monitor makes it much easier.  I would never try to do that on a laptop.  (However, I am admittedly not a huge fan of laptops in general because I like computers that I can easily take apart and update.)  Plus, these days I can use my phone for most of the things that I would normally do on a laptop.

As long as you don't buy an ultraportable with soldered RAM, RAM and disk can be upgraded on a laptop.  GPU is going to be the limiting factor.

ketchup

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2018, 10:29:41 AM »
With the ridiculous costs of RAM and video cards lately, you may be better off buying a prebuilt desktop.
Dear god, you're not kidding.  I know crypto-mining is blowing up the GPU market, but what the hell is going on with RAM?  I bought 32GB (2x16GB) of desktop DDR4-2400 a year ago and it was only $185, but now it's $320.

JLee

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2018, 11:38:45 AM »
With the ridiculous costs of RAM and video cards lately, you may be better off buying a prebuilt desktop.
Dear god, you're not kidding.  I know crypto-mining is blowing up the GPU market, but what the hell is going on with RAM?  I bought 32GB (2x16GB) of desktop DDR4-2400 a year ago and it was only $185, but now it's $320.

I paid $129.99 for 32GB of DDR4 in July 2016.  The same exact part number is $349.99 now.

My GTX 970 graphics card was $298 in December 2014, and I got a $30 check from the class action suit against nVidia...they're selling on eBay now for well north of $200.  I almost never game anymore so I am incredibly tempted to sell it and extract almost my full purchase price back out of it, after 3+ years of use.

I have seen a couple of Alienware Aurora desktops on Slickdeals in the $1100-1200 range with an i7 8700, 16GB RAM, and a GTX 1080.  Given current GPU/memory pricing, that's a rather stellar price.

ketchup

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2018, 12:02:33 PM »
I have seen a couple of Alienware Aurora desktops on Slickdeals in the $1100-1200 range with an i7 8700, 16GB RAM, and a GTX 1080.  Given current GPU/memory pricing, that's a rather stellar price.
That sounds like it's almost cheap enough to buy just to part out...  GTX 1080 cards right now are like $700 alone.

JLee

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2018, 12:20:40 PM »
I have seen a couple of Alienware Aurora desktops on Slickdeals in the $1100-1200 range with an i7 8700, 16GB RAM, and a GTX 1080.  Given current GPU/memory pricing, that's a rather stellar price.
That sounds like it's almost cheap enough to buy just to part out...  GTX 1080 cards right now are like $700 alone.

The thought has crossed my mind...

Thegoblinchief

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2018, 06:23:40 AM »
A high quality, color calibrated screen matters more than the computer in my book.

For photo editing, high amounts of RAM and a fast SSD will make the biggest impact.

For video editing, it depends on the editing software you’re planning on using. Some are written to take advantage of GPU power effectively when rendering, but (and my knowledge here is a few years out of date) the version of Vegas I had ran just fast using a mid-range CPU to render versus using a high-end GPU to render.

For self building, the crypto craze has horribly distorted the prices of RAM and GPUs particularly. Pre-built systems make more sense because they have price contracts.

HipGnosis

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2018, 10:22:04 AM »
I did the computer management at my last job; 200+ PCs and laptops.
PCs are definitely cheaper. They are cheaper to buy and last longer.
And they can be bought in a LOT more specific configurations.
And PCs are much more likely to be fixable as all the components can be replaced (or upgraded) separately.   Laptops have many 'components' integrated into the motherboard.  And laptop motherboards are specific to each version of each model of laptop.

For mobility; setup VPN and remote desktop on the PC (and leave it on).  Access it with any cheap laptop.

JLee

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2018, 09:35:25 PM »
I did the computer management at my last job; 200+ PCs and laptops.
PCs are definitely cheaper. They are cheaper to buy and last longer.
And they can be bought in a LOT more specific configurations.
And PCs are much more likely to be fixable as all the components can be replaced (or upgraded) separately.   Laptops have many 'components' integrated into the motherboard.  And laptop motherboards are specific to each version of each model of laptop.

For mobility; setup VPN and remote desktop on the PC (and leave it on).  Access it with any cheap laptop.

Or Teamviewer, which doesn't require a VPN. :)

EricEng

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2018, 07:38:25 AM »
With the ridiculous costs of RAM and video cards lately, you may be better off buying a prebuilt desktop.
Dear god, you're not kidding.  I know crypto-mining is blowing up the GPU market, but what the hell is going on with RAM?  I bought 32GB (2x16GB) of desktop DDR4-2400 a year ago and it was only $185, but now it's $320.

I paid $129.99 for 32GB of DDR4 in July 2016.  The same exact part number is $349.99 now.

My GTX 970 graphics card was $298 in December 2014, and I got a $30 check from the class action suit against nVidia...they're selling on eBay now for well north of $200.  I almost never game anymore so I am incredibly tempted to sell it and extract almost my full purchase price back out of it, after 3+ years of use.
I'm in the same situation.  I bought my GTX 970 during black Friday 2014 for around $275.  My work bought GTX 1080TI summer 2017 for $700 and they are now selling for $1500+.  Cryptominers has just destroyed the market. 

If you need desktop power in a mobile form there is nothing better than an Origin pc with a desktop grade processor
https://www.originpc.com/gaming/laptops/eon15-x/
Be warned these are thick and heavy by modern laptop standards.  We use these heavily at work and tradeshows for VR and 3d vizualizations. 

deek

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2018, 08:42:44 AM »
With the ridiculous costs of RAM and video cards lately, you may be better off buying a prebuilt desktop.
Dear god, you're not kidding.  I know crypto-mining is blowing up the GPU market, but what the hell is going on with RAM?  I bought 32GB (2x16GB) of desktop DDR4-2400 a year ago and it was only $185, but now it's $320.

I paid $129.99 for 32GB of DDR4 in July 2016.  The same exact part number is $349.99 now.

My GTX 970 graphics card was $298 in December 2014, and I got a $30 check from the class action suit against nVidia...they're selling on eBay now for well north of $200.  I almost never game anymore so I am incredibly tempted to sell it and extract almost my full purchase price back out of it, after 3+ years of use.
I'm in the same situation.  I bought my GTX 970 during black Friday 2014 for around $275.  My work bought GTX 1080TI summer 2017 for $700 and they are now selling for $1500+.  Cryptominers has just destroyed the market. 

If you need desktop power in a mobile form there is nothing better than an Origin pc with a desktop grade processor
https://www.originpc.com/gaming/laptops/eon15-x/
Be warned these are thick and heavy by modern laptop standards.  We use these heavily at work and tradeshows for VR and 3d vizualizations.

How much does this run with a top processor?

ketchup

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2018, 08:52:52 AM »
With the ridiculous costs of RAM and video cards lately, you may be better off buying a prebuilt desktop.
Dear god, you're not kidding.  I know crypto-mining is blowing up the GPU market, but what the hell is going on with RAM?  I bought 32GB (2x16GB) of desktop DDR4-2400 a year ago and it was only $185, but now it's $320.

I paid $129.99 for 32GB of DDR4 in July 2016.  The same exact part number is $349.99 now.

My GTX 970 graphics card was $298 in December 2014, and I got a $30 check from the class action suit against nVidia...they're selling on eBay now for well north of $200.  I almost never game anymore so I am incredibly tempted to sell it and extract almost my full purchase price back out of it, after 3+ years of use.
I'm in the same situation.  I bought my GTX 970 during black Friday 2014 for around $275.  My work bought GTX 1080TI summer 2017 for $700 and they are now selling for $1500+.  Cryptominers has just destroyed the market. 

If you need desktop power in a mobile form there is nothing better than an Origin pc with a desktop grade processor
https://www.originpc.com/gaming/laptops/eon15-x/
Be warned these are thick and heavy by modern laptop standards.  We use these heavily at work and tradeshows for VR and 3d vizualizations.

How much does this run with a top processor?
Lots.  I just configured one with an i7 8700K, GTX 1070, good SSD, and 32GB of DDR4 and it was almost $3k.

EricEng

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2018, 08:56:27 AM »
How much does this run with a top processor?
Top processor + Gtx 1070 and 500gb ssd is around $2300-2500.  To build an equivalent desktop system would be about $2k if you could find the GTX 1070 at reasonable rates.  That said, last time work purchased was start of the year and it appears prices have gone up a few hundred.  Looks like the ram prices are mostly to blame.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 09:01:31 AM by EricEng »

Trying2bFrugal

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2018, 09:12:38 AM »
I’m going to save towards a higher performance desktop or laptop and I’m not sure which route to go. This would be used for video/photo editing and I just want awesome processing so everything is quality.

Would I save more money buying a desktop and updating parts over time? My understanding is that after a few years, laptops have to be replaced and good ones aren’t cheap. Any assistance would be appreciated!

I am not sure if you do this for
A. Living (professional video graph-er)
B. Hobby

Mobility:
1. You move a lot
2. You shoot them at work/hobby and work later at home

My thought: You should get a laptop unless your fit is under A and 2.
Desktop: is fixed, you are severly limiting the mobility.

The laptop i7 is equivalent to one step down i5 on desktop. Other option is NUC, but thats not there yet for video rendering.

I would think better price might come if you wait, but this is a decent one with 90 day return policy (although i never encourage for people on returning things unless they are faulty).
    https://www.costco.com/Lenovo-LEGION-Y520-Gaming-Laptop---Intel-Core-i7---4GB-NVIDIA-Graphics---1080p.product.100347159.html

If you are building desktop, dont over do it.

JLee

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2018, 06:01:19 PM »
Quote
This would be used for video/photo editing and I just want awesome processing so everything is quality.

To add a clarifying point here...a faster machine isn't going to make your final product any different. It just lets you do it faster.

DreamFIRE

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2018, 06:36:33 PM »
I did the computer management at my last job; 200+ PCs and laptops.
PCs are definitely cheaper. They are cheaper to buy and last longer.
And they can be bought in a LOT more specific configurations.
And PCs are much more likely to be fixable as all the components can be replaced (or upgraded) separately.   Laptops have many 'components' integrated into the motherboard.  And laptop motherboards are specific to each version of each model of laptop.

For mobility; setup VPN and remote desktop on the PC (and leave it on).  Access it with any cheap laptop.

Or Teamviewer, which doesn't require a VPN. :)

Neither does RDP.  However, a VPN does add another layer of security, just as an RDP SSL gateway does.

JLee

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2018, 06:39:35 PM »
I did the computer management at my last job; 200+ PCs and laptops.
PCs are definitely cheaper. They are cheaper to buy and last longer.
And they can be bought in a LOT more specific configurations.
And PCs are much more likely to be fixable as all the components can be replaced (or upgraded) separately.   Laptops have many 'components' integrated into the motherboard.  And laptop motherboards are specific to each version of each model of laptop.

For mobility; setup VPN and remote desktop on the PC (and leave it on).  Access it with any cheap laptop.

Or Teamviewer, which doesn't require a VPN. :)

Neither does RDP.  However, a VPN does add another layer of security, just as an RDP SSL gateway does.

What desktop OS lets you configure an RDP SSL gateway?

The bigger issue, I think, would be video playback. It's not really RDP's strong suit.  Our dev company uses Teamviewer for Premiere testing/programming because it's the best solution they've found for video. :)
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 06:49:59 PM by JLee »

deek

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2018, 10:52:10 AM »
All helpful information. Thanks.

I'm gathering that if I want a desktop that will satisfy my needs, I should be able to do it for right around $1000 or under (once I save enough to comfortably afford it). I don't need the best out there by any means. I am no professional.

MrMoogle

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2018, 01:24:46 PM »
I built my own a few years ago.  It's the second one I've built, and I almost didn't do it because of all the time I spent on my first one.  Making sure everything was compatible was very time consuming.  My brother showed me this website:
https://pcpartpicker.com/
It compares prices, checks compatibility, and just makes the design process so much quicker.  It's a lot easier to do now.  They also have saved builds that other people have done.

EricEng

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2018, 08:42:36 PM »
I built my own a few years ago.  It's the second one I've built, and I almost didn't do it because of all the time I spent on my first one.  Making sure everything was compatible was very time consuming.  My brother showed me this website:
https://pcpartpicker.com/
It compares prices, checks compatibility, and just makes the design process so much quicker.  It's a lot easier to do now.  They also have saved builds that other people have done.
I keep forgetting about that site.  It makes it so easy these days.  Definitely using that for my next build in a few years...if video card and ssd prices ever return to anything resembling reasonable.

JLee

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2018, 01:27:24 AM »
I built my own a few years ago.  It's the second one I've built, and I almost didn't do it because of all the time I spent on my first one.  Making sure everything was compatible was very time consuming.  My brother showed me this website:
https://pcpartpicker.com/
It compares prices, checks compatibility, and just makes the design process so much quicker.  It's a lot easier to do now.  They also have saved builds that other people have done.
I keep forgetting about that site.  It makes it so easy these days.  Definitely using that for my next build in a few years...if video card and ssd prices ever return to anything resembling reasonable.

SSD prices are fine. I just picked up a 512GB PCI-e NVME drive for $151...RAM is ridiculous, though.

EricEng

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2018, 08:50:06 AM »
SSD prices are fine. I just picked up a 512GB PCI-e NVME drive for $151...RAM is ridiculous, though.
I bought a 1TB samsung pro ssd in 2014 for $300.  Those are still around $250-400 now.  I'd expect 1TB to be around $75-100 after 3-4 years if prices were normal.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2018, 09:26:24 AM »
I built my own a few years ago.  It's the second one I've built, and I almost didn't do it because of all the time I spent on my first one.  Making sure everything was compatible was very time consuming.  My brother showed me this website:
https://pcpartpicker.com/
It compares prices, checks compatibility, and just makes the design process so much quicker.  It's a lot easier to do now.  They also have saved builds that other people have done.
I keep forgetting about that site.  It makes it so easy these days.  Definitely using that for my next build in a few years...if video card and ssd prices ever return to anything resembling reasonable.

SSD prices are fine. I just picked up a 512GB PCI-e NVME drive for $151...RAM is ridiculous, though.
I disagree--SSD prices were dropping quite nicely until their current prices of $0.40/GB, then they just...bottomed out.  I'm hoping the recent plateau in smartphone sales will lead to an easing in the flash market, so that SSDs can start dropping in price again.

JLee

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2018, 05:59:01 PM »
SSD prices are fine. I just picked up a 512GB PCI-e NVME drive for $151...RAM is ridiculous, though.
I bought a 1TB samsung pro ssd in 2014 for $300.  Those are still around $250-400 now.  I'd expect 1TB to be around $75-100 after 3-4 years if prices were normal.

When have SSDs ever been $75/TB?

hint: never



I bought RAM in 2016 for $130. The same part number is $350 today. nVidia GTX 1080's were released at $599 MSRP.  They're way more than that now, nearly two years later.

SSDs? Slow, boring SSDs went up a little.  Fast SSDs got cheaper. Meh.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 06:02:27 PM by JLee »

EricEng

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2018, 08:09:31 AM »
When have SSDs ever been $75/TB?

hint: never
Uhm, I never said they had been.  My point that you missed was had they continued at a normal price decline they would have been by now.  Instead they have pretty much stagnated.  Spinning drives have continued to get ever cheaper per TB, but SSD have been almost unchanged since 2014.

JLee

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2018, 06:10:23 PM »
When have SSDs ever been $75/TB?

hint: never
Uhm, I never said they had been.  My point that you missed was had they continued at a normal price decline they would have been by now.  Instead they have pretty much stagnated.  Spinning drives have continued to get ever cheaper per TB, but SSD have been almost unchanged since 2014.

RAM has nearly tripled and GPUs have gone up 30% as they've aged.  Price a 512GB NVME SSD as of 2014 and price one today. ;)

Even boring SATA SSDs..here's an example: https://slickdeals.net/e/7001338-1tb-samsung-840-evo-series-2-5-sata-iii-solid-state-drive-40-rakuten-cash-400-free-shipping?src=SiteSearch

Front page Slickdeals, 1TB 840 EVO (not Pro) for $400 in June 2014.   An Evo 860 (two generations newer) is $290 at Amazon right now (not front page Slickdeals deal sale pricing).
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 06:14:07 PM by JLee »

EricEng

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2018, 12:44:11 PM »
RAM has nearly tripled and GPUs have gone up 30% as they've aged.  Price a 512GB NVME SSD as of 2014 and price one today. ;)

Even boring SATA SSDs..here's an example: https://slickdeals.net/e/7001338-1tb-samsung-840-evo-series-2-5-sata-iii-solid-state-drive-40-rakuten-cash-400-free-shipping?src=SiteSearch

Front page Slickdeals, 1TB 840 EVO (not Pro) for $400 in June 2014.   An Evo 860 (two generations newer) is $290 at Amazon right now (not front page Slickdeals deal sale pricing).
Did you miss where I said I bought a 1TB in 2014 for $300?  Yeah, the speed has improved some but the GB/price hasn't.  In 2018 I can buy 12TB spinning drives for the price of 4TB spinning in 2014.  I should be able to buy a 2-3TB SSD for under $300.

Ram is up, but not 300%.  More 50-75%.  Ram kits I used to buy for work in the $100-120 range are now ~$175. 
https://www.newegg.com/Desktop-Memory/SubCategory/ID-147?Tid=7611

JLee

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2018, 04:54:09 PM »
RAM has nearly tripled and GPUs have gone up 30% as they've aged.  Price a 512GB NVME SSD as of 2014 and price one today. ;)

Even boring SATA SSDs..here's an example: https://slickdeals.net/e/7001338-1tb-samsung-840-evo-series-2-5-sata-iii-solid-state-drive-40-rakuten-cash-400-free-shipping?src=SiteSearch

Front page Slickdeals, 1TB 840 EVO (not Pro) for $400 in June 2014.   An Evo 860 (two generations newer) is $290 at Amazon right now (not front page Slickdeals deal sale pricing).
Did you miss where I said I bought a 1TB in 2014 for $300?  Yeah, the speed has improved some but the GB/price hasn't.  In 2018 I can buy 12TB spinning drives for the price of 4TB spinning in 2014.  I should be able to buy a 2-3TB SSD for under $300.

Ram is up, but not 300%.  More 50-75%.  Ram kits I used to buy for work in the $100-120 range are now ~$175. 
https://www.newegg.com/Desktop-Memory/SubCategory/ID-147?Tid=7611

I missed where you proved that you bought a Samsung Pro SSD for that price. I have found zero evidence that such a deal existed at the time.

Here you go:



Today at Microcenter:


Btw, you can buy a 2TB SSD for under $300 right now. You're welcome. ;)
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 04:57:47 PM by JLee »

TheMCP

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2018, 06:30:38 PM »
With the ridiculous costs of RAM and video cards lately, you may be better off buying a prebuilt desktop.
Dear god, you're not kidding.  I know crypto-mining is blowing up the GPU market, but what the hell is going on with RAM?  I bought 32GB (2x16GB) of desktop DDR4-2400 a year ago and it was only $185, but now it's $320.

For decades, computer memory has been a boom / bust cycle... prices would go up, everybody built new memory fabs and created massive new supply that flooded the market and tanked prices, which led to memory producers going broke and getting bought up by other memory producers.  Today, there are only 3 companies left in the world that make DRAM in any meaningful quantity (Samsung, SK Hynix, and Micron).  In addition, unlike most products, memory quality has a negative correlation to price, meaning older DRAM is actually more expensive per bit than new DRAM due to density increases.  There is no way to "I'll just build kinda-crappy DRAM and sell it cheaper" in this market.  The best is also the cheapest.

China would love to splash this particular pool and flood the market with cheap product, but due to the fact that they lack intellectual property, a modern fab costs upwards of 5 billion to build (and 2 years to complete), and by the time they figure out how to build price competitive DRAM they won't be able to sell it for anything near a profit, they literally can't, no matter how many resources they throw at the problem.  I've read reports that the Chinese gov't would be willing to spend 100+ billion to get into the DRAM business, but it still doesn't matter.  The processes, knowledge, and equipment that goes into producing modern memory is so advanced that there is a nearly insurmountable moat to bridge.

There are solutions on the horizon, the most promising being 3dXpoint (which is part of a joint venture between Intel and Micron... it's a new type of memory that uses a special type of glass to store bits instead of traditional transistors) that should reduce the amount of DRAM necessary in a given system as it looks like it kinda sits between what DRAM and NAND (SSDs), performance wise.  Until then, unless one of the 3 remaining companies decides that they don't like making tons of money producing DRAM, or people decide they don't want fast computers anymore, higher prices are probably going to remain the norm.

EricEng

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2018, 10:51:15 AM »
I missed where you proved that you bought a Samsung Pro SSD for that price. I have found zero evidence that such a deal existed at the time.
Had missed replying to this.  1TB Samsung drive in 2014 for $360 with free brand new $50 game I was going to buy anyway.  Also has ram at 2014 price for $120, then $61 in 2016, and it is now $112 in 2018.  The best deal I see on 1TB drives are still $170+.  These should have dropped a lot more by now.


Now the 2TB drive is the same price as the 1TB was...4 years later.  Crazy slow price drop for SSDs.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147671&cm_re=2tb_ssd-_-20-147-671-_-Product



JLee

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2018, 11:01:04 AM »
I missed where you proved that you bought a Samsung Pro SSD for that price. I have found zero evidence that such a deal existed at the time.
Had missed replying to this.  1TB Samsung drive in 2014 for $360 with free brand new $50 game I was going to buy anyway.  Also has ram at 2014 price for $120, then $61 in 2016, and it is now $112 in 2018.  The best deal I see on 1TB drives are still $170+.  These should have dropped a lot more by now.

Now the 2TB drive is the same price as the 1TB was...4 years later.  Crazy slow price drop for SSDs.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147671&cm_re=2tb_ssd-_-20-147-671-_-Product

Quote
I bought a 1TB samsung pro ssd in 2014 for $300.

That's an 840 Evo, not an 840 Pro.

EricEng

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2018, 03:15:53 PM »
That's an 840 Evo, not an 840 Pro.
Arguing technicality over me not remembering the exact model 4 years after the fact.  The original point was 1TB SSD's were around $300-400 in 2014 and had barely fallen in price.  The 2TB Evo I linked is now nearly the same price as the 1TB...4 years later, and most of that price fall has been just within this last year.

JLee

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2018, 03:25:50 PM »
That's an 840 Evo, not an 840 Pro.
Arguing technicality over me not remembering the exact model 4 years after the fact.  The original point was 1TB SSD's were around $300-400 in 2014 and had barely fallen in price.  The 2TB Evo I linked is now nearly the same price as the 1TB...4 years later, and most of that price fall has been just within this last year.

Okay.  Yes, you bought a non-Pro (very different model) 1TB SSD for 20% more than the price you claimed, which is the fact that I challenged.  If you want to say "1TB SSDs were around $300-400" instead of what you actually said, then I don't disagree with you.

It's still better than the RAM situation. I sent a purchase order out yesterday for $289k in RAM - if I did that two years ago it'd probably have saved us about $150k.

Oh well!

grantmeaname

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2018, 09:01:03 PM »
I love that we revived a thread after seven months to nitpick

JLee

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2018, 08:12:54 AM »
I love that we revived a thread after seven months to nitpick

If you want a forum where numbers don't matter, this might not be the right one. ;)

grantmeaname

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Re: Attention computer SW/HW experts...
« Reply #41 on: October 15, 2018, 05:02:11 PM »
Did I ever suggest that was what I was looking for?