The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: tepster on July 02, 2014, 04:57:19 PM
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I'll be quick about it. My boyfriend needed a career change and quit his job to move to my state (just 90 miles away) and into my home. Therefore, he had been jobless and going to school for 9 months. I asked for no money during that time, not even groceries, which is why we never previously discussed shared finances. Last month he found a good-paying job ($20+/hr). Next month I will bring up the subject about his financial share.
What is fair to ask of him? The facts: He does not want equity in my house ($1500 monthly mortgage). Utilities are a sparse $450 per month. I make $85k+. He was previously paying $900 total rent/utilities. I live in NJ, very high cost of living. Apartments here do not go for under $1k/month.
Do I suggest a proportion of total monthly household costs (say, 33% and 66%?) His previous rent? Half his previous rent? Half of utilities?
Thank you in advance!
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Half of your housing cost (included mortgage, taxes, insurance, and utilities.) That runs about the same as his previous rent, which I assume didn't include utilities, so it is fair and he should pull his own weight now that he is working.
The "equity" issue is irrelevant. If you stay together, then he will possibility eventually gain the equity through marriage. If you don't stay together long term, well then he should be paying you fair rent to cover his share of the household expenses. Grocery costs should be considered separately.
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An equal share. You two are going to be sharing the same living space and using the same utilities (wtf $450 is sparse?). Unless he is somehow not using all the same stuff you are then he should pay the same amount.
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Basically, I'd go half of utilities, property taxes, and all costs OTHER than equity payments and half of the interest on the mortgage. And then, add how much profit you personally want to make from this situation.
Another way to do it would be to split at a pro-rata of your net income. This is how I would do it if I stayed with a girlfriend who earned less than me.
And then there's the good old 50/50. Which would make you a profit. Doesn't seem completely fair as you are building equity. But you would have a right to do that.
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Maybe he should get his own apartment and tell you guys are ready to get married
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I live with my GF in the condo she owns. We split groceries and utilities and eating out pretty much 50/50. I use Mint, she keeps more of a written log but neither of us are too strict about it. More like "my turn, your turn" sort of thing. I ask her how much utilities were and add them to the rent each month. I paid for a hotel room for a couple nights coming up, she told me knock her half off this month's rent. We split the house work evenly too.
The only thing that isn't split evenly is the rent itself. As a homeowner already, I don't care to have any stake in this mortgage. If/when we get married, as was mentioned, I'll benefit but no matter where I live, I pay rent so I suggested what I thought was most fair.
Mortgage+HOA is about $3000/month. She makes 60% of our combined income so I suggested I pay her 40% of the mortgage as rent. $1200 is $100 less than the apartment I lived in by myself so we both agreed that was a good price. And I'm willing to adjust up or down as wages go up/down.
In your situation I think it's unfair to ask $1k for rent from him as it's a shared housing situation (and he makes less!). But up to $750 would be reasonable in my book. But given your income situation, which sounds like the same percentage from each partner as my situation, $600 for him plus have of utilities and groceries should be fair.
Someone pointed out in a similar thread a way of thinking that made it really simple for me. Split it by hours worked. If you make $30/hour and he makes $20/hour you each have to work 30 hours to pay your share of the rent if you split $900/$600. If you ask him to pay $750, that's only 25 hours of work for you but 30 hours of work for him. **
Hope it helps.
**just making up numbers obviously and not accounting for taxes, benefits, retirement accounts, etcetcetc. But you get the idea.
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An equal share. You two are going to be sharing the same living space and using the same utilities (wtf $450 is sparse?). Unless he is somehow not using all the same stuff you are then he should pay the same amount.
Was hoping 450 was a typo. I'd just charge him market rent for a br in a house, whatever that is
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I'll be quick about it. My boyfriend needed a career change and quit his job to move to my state (just 90 miles away) and into my home. Therefore, he had been jobless and going to school for 9 months. I asked for no money during that time, not even groceries, which is why we never previously discussed shared finances. Last month he found a good-paying job ($20+/hr). Next month I will bring up the subject about his financial share.
What is fair to ask of him? The facts: He does not want equity in my house ($1500 monthly mortgage). Utilities are a sparse $450 per month. I make $85k+. He was previously paying $900 total rent/utilities. I live in NJ, very high cost of living. Apartments here do not go for under $1k/month.
Do I suggest a proportion of total monthly household costs (say, 33% and 66%?) His previous rent? Half his previous rent? Half of utilities?
Thank you in advance!
You are an awesome gf. $85k? No wonder he's into you!
Jokes aside...
It sounds like you don't "need" the money, but it obviously doesn't make any sense for you to pay for all the expenses yourself.
How much would a comparable place to what you own cost to rent? I think half of that is a fair range (you can knock off a bit if you want given he makes 60% of what you do. Assuming you could rent a place for around $1,500... rent of $750 seems fair... and is also less than he was paying before. Then split utilities and other living costs.
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I don't think it's completely fair to charge by 'what he used to pay' or ' what he'd pay in another apt' .... After all he already lived 9 months free with you, where else would he get that? I think its most fair to charge 1/2 of what you pay i.e $1000. Charging less would only make sense if you were married coz the whole pot is really joint anyway. Also if there's relationship problems I'd feel resentful if I were subsidizing a dude etc... Just my take .
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What do you plan on doing with the extra money?
Considering a boyfriend is never guaranteed and you are well off enough to support him for the previous period, I recommend taking that extra money on top of the $1500 mortgage payment you have to make. While you could make more through increasing investments, the thought of boyfriend going away at any time would make the stopping of this money source less of a loss to bear with the increased equity to hold on to.
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^This. You helped him get back on his feet when he was unemployed. Now he should pay his share. No more subsidy. You wouldn't do the "I make more so I'll pay more" deal with any other roommate, would you? If it makes you feel better by doing it that way, then go ahead, but don't let your judgement be clouded and don't let "guilt" about being the higher wage earner cause you to feel obligated to pay more if he is perfectly capable of paying half with still plenty of money left over.
$450 is crazy high for utilities, just in case you haven't figured that out from other comments. If some of that is cable or sat. TV (which is the only way I can see if being so much), then wtf do you have that for?
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Thanks to everyone so far! This is really helpful to think about. I *thought* $450 was sparse compared to my friends and family, but I guess I am wrong! I estimated monthly:
$50-70 water/sewer
$100 natural gas (peaks in winter, low in summer)
$100 electric (peaks in summer, low in winter)
$100 TV/internet
$30 security system, which pays itself through homeowner's insurance discount
I will use the extra money to pay off student loans.
It's not easy being the female breadwinner. When I warned him the conversation was coming, he made the comment: "I have a feeling you're going to ask for some crazy high amount since I lived here free all this time..." It makes me very nervous to discuss this, like I'm asking for his right arm and part of his left. These comments helped bolster my confidence, thanks!
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An equal share. You two are going to be sharing the same living space and using the same utilities (wtf $450 is sparse?). Unless he is somehow not using all the same stuff you are then he should pay the same amount.
I'd split it all 50/50 assuming you are both splitting the chores, utilities and food equally. If you aren't comfortable asking for that much, charge him what he'd pay for a place by himself and 1/2 of the utilities (and everything else) you both share and use.
I'm also in the "your utilities seem crazy high" camp but I guess it's all relative. I live where it's temperate so low cost. Electric and gas around $15 - $30/month each at most.
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I think it's good to look at 2 numbers arrived at from either side, a combo of what others are saying. One number is what it would cost him to live somewhere else similar to your place. This part can be tricky because you don't know if he would rent his own apartment, have roommates, move in with his parents, ... The other number is which of your expenses seems fair for him to pitch in on, say half of everything except the payment to principal (the principal becomes an asset for you). Hopefully those 2 numbers are close, even if they aren't it can still be helpful.
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Maybe he should get his own apartment and tell you guys are ready to get married
If you lived in Canada, FYI, the law would automatically assume you were "equivalent to married" e.g., common law, after 2 yrs... and many of the legal marriage (separation rights) would then apply. There is a reason for this!
Keep in mind that you supported him like a wife for the past year, and in another year would be considered common law married... so maybe make financial plans with him that reflect the long term relationship? He is not just a room mate.... and if he is not thinking long term, well, that is a whole other "sucka" problem you have.
Many financial bloggers recommend each spouse contributing an equal share to the relationship. IF you were married, your student debt would be his and vice versa, so go ahead -- add in all your debt repayment schedule to the mix of household expenses, then divy it up at 85k/125K 68% for you, and 40k/125K 32% for him. (assuming $20/hr is roughly 40k per year)
Oh yeah, look to see when you can claim the "married filing jointly" tax return and see if that helps you too!
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Thanks to everyone so far! This is really helpful to think about. I *thought* $450 was sparse compared to my friends and family, but I guess I am wrong! I estimated monthly:
$50-70 water/sewer
$100 natural gas (peaks in winter, low in summer)
$100 electric (peaks in summer, low in winter)
$100 TV/internet
$30 security system, which pays itself through homeowner's insurance discount
I will use the extra money to pay off student loans.
It's not easy being the female breadwinner. When I warned him the conversation was coming, he made the comment: "I have a feeling you're going to ask for some crazy high amount since I lived here free all this time..." It makes me very nervous to discuss this, like I'm asking for his right arm and part of his left. These comments helped bolster my confidence, thanks!
Estimation at peaks is where you fall short. Much easier to do an average. Also >:( at the TV/internet. Hulu and Netflix plus internet would get you most of what you're looking for in digital entertainment. Just a standard Mustachian suggestion.
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General Mills doesn't charge you more for cereal 'cause you earn more, so I'm not sure why you're thinking about dividing the rent according to income. That's something married for the married-folk.
I assume you're not going to charge him back-rent for the time he was in school? If that's the case, then he's already gotten a HUGE discount on rent from you ($8,100 he would've paid at his previous apartment), and you've made a big investment in his future, so the fact that you're gaining equity is really a non-issue.
What's the difference between half the rent on a 2BR apartment in the area and half your mortgage? I'm curious.
As RFAAOATB, Zamboni, and Spartana have said, charge him HALF. Half rent or mortgage + half the utilities.
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I would charge him market rate for an apartment in your area, split all utilities evenly, and do your best to split evenly when it comes to groceries (I'm sure he eats more than you do). This probably means you're going to charge him more than half your monthly housing expenses.
I'm a proponent of proportional pay based on income if you two are renting an apartment/house together but the fact is you own the house and I doubt your BF is reaching into his pocket if the dishwasher goes or the roof leaks. If all goes well and you two marry it should make no difference to him what he paid and if you two split you don't get stuck holding the bag. Protect yourself.
Also RE: her utilities, as a fellow NJer, I will defend her on the cable bill. Most cable companies charge $60+ for stand alone internet and verizon has been shutting down their copper lines every chance they get. Really not saving much having $100 bundled cable vs internet + hulu + netflix.
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Charge at least half of the utilities, food, internet and mortgage. I wonder if you are beginning to feel taken advantage of by his lack of initiation? He has a sweet deal knowing you took care of him all this time. This makes me wonder what are his financial values? Do you mind sharing more? Also during the time he was unemployed how did he help out and pull his weight?
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besides, in many cases the 'equity' gain is more than offset by repairs, and risk of market dip or job loss that would land squarely on *your* shoulders
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It's probably worth putting the ball in his court and asking him what he feels he should be paying? It sounds like he probably feels guilty for not paying the first 9 months.
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It's probably worth putting the ball in his court and asking him what he feels he should be paying? It sounds like he probably feels guilty for not paying the first 9 months.
+1 to this. I was in a very similar situation recently. My DG and I went over all expenses. After reviewing all expenses I asked her what a fair division would look like from her perspective. We ultimately settled on something we both thought was fair.
I would recommend setting up some time to talk about it. Depending on personality, it may be helpful to give him some time to review all expenses prior to the conversation so he can have some time to review and have a good understanding of household expenses going in.
I wish you the best of luck. It may not be an easy conversation to initiate, but it will be much better than deferring the conversation or not having it.
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Keep in mind that you supported him like a wife for the past year, and in another year would be considered common law married...
I think wife "spouse" is the word you were looking for there.
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Unlike most of the posts, I think you need to determine fair market value of the house share. Do this via 50% of rental value or research what home shares/roommates in similar dwellings are asking. Your mortgage, taxes, and equity are irrelevant. He needs to start pulling his weight in a fair way.
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Half of the utilities is a no-brainer.
You have a lot of choices on rent: half the mortgage, half the interest on the mortgage, half market rent, or proportional split of any of these based on income.
I'd calculate each out on a list, then use the useful suggestion of asking the boyfriend what he thinks would be fair, and showing him a list with any of the options which you feel comfortable with.
I do think you need to add in a discussion about the last 8 months too, just to clear the air. You could say that the free accommodation and utilities was a gift, or perhaps say the rent was a gift but ask for repayment on half the utilities (he won't have a lump sum but could pay all the utilities for the next 8 months, or 3/4 of them for the next 16 months. (Crikey, it adds up!)
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I suggest $975. That is splitting things 50/50 and it's only $75 more than what he previously paid. If his job is now dependable and well paying, as you've indicated, this shouldn't be a problem. I would also think that a responsible partner would be anxious to even the financial scales a little bit.
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I doubt your BF is reaching into his pocket if the dishwasher goes or the roof leaks.
This. And the truth is, maybe he shouldn't. Charge him fair rent and when something breaks, you fix it because it is your house.
I do also agree that you should get his input.
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I doubt your BF is reaching into his pocket if the dishwasher goes or the roof leaks.
This. And the truth is, maybe he shouldn't. Charge him fair rent and when something breaks, you fix it because it is your house.
I do also agree that you should get his input.
Mandy, I completely agree. He shouldn't be responsible for fixing things with a house he isn't owning. But he also should be responsible for paying fair market rent so that OP can afford to fix these things. I appreciate OP makes more money, but she already has been subsidizing her BF and now that he is gainfully employed he should be paying a fair rent. If he has an issue I would think there are more things to discuss.
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Keep in mind that you supported him like a wife for the past year, and in another year would be considered common law married...
I think wife "spouse" is the word you were looking for there.
+1
Market rent sounds fair to me depending on the relationship. My brother is my roommate, and I charge him below market rent, but he makes considerably less than I do, and helps out with my son and the pets, so it's a bit of a different situation for us.
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The agreement with my fiance is similar to what some have suggested:
I make 80k after taxes, she makes 15k after taxes.
The house is mine in the Pre-Nuptual, however I must make all payments for it (which includes principle, insurance, interest, taxes and HOA). This amounts to 20k per year.
That leaves us with after housing, and after tax, incomes of 60k and 15k.
We put all the rest of our bills: Phones, Utilites, Insurance Car taxes, Food, Her College Expenses... into a pile, for which I pay 75% and she pays 25%. In practice, I pay for it and then she reimburses me for 25% after the fact. When we file taxes next year, we will file jointly, and split any return by the same 75/25 margin. Contributions towards our shared IRA will be 75/25 as well.
In exchange we split most common household chores 25/75 towards her.
Personal luxuries are paid for by the person who wants them. Dates and activities are 50/50 split.
This is a very new arangement, and I'm excited to see how it will work out.
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IF you were married, your student debt would be his and vice versa, so go ahead -- add in all your debt repayment schedule to the mix of household expenses, then divy it up at 85k/125K 68% for you, and 40k/125K 32% for him. (assuming $20/hr is roughly 40k per year)
I am taking this out of context because that's not how student loan debt works in the US. You take on student loan debt in your own name, and currently, cannot consolidate student loans with your spouse (I know this was previously an option to get student loans into one payment per couple, but it's super messy in the case of a divorce, so it's not allowed anymore via the federal govt. consolidation program--of course you could take on a personal loan to pay off the two separate loans and have a combined payment, but then you give up the rights to forbearance and loan forgiveness options). If you die, as long as you were the only signer on your loan (no co-signers), your student loan dies with you and your spouse isn't responsible. That was the only thing that made me nervous about the debt snowball my DH and I did when we were working to pay off our loans--his were smaller loans and also higher interest, so we paid them first.
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I'm going to respectfully disagree with everyone saying that he shouldn't pay/help when things break. If he were simply a renter/roommate, I would be more inclined to agree. But since we're talking about a SO, it's in his best interest, and ever more so, the interest of the couple for him to help out and participate in repairs.
GF and I just painted the upstairs of her condo. I encouraged her to not hire anyone; we could do it no problem. I didn't have her pay me for it as, 1) it creates a nicer place for both of us; 2)we're in this together; I'm not JUST a renter.
Sure, she paid for the paint, the brushes, the new carpet. She bought the washer and dryer. But the switch failed on a ceiling fan so I bought and replaced that. The garbage disposal wasn't working when we moved in, I fixed that. That could have been $150 to a plumber/handyman or me saving (her) us the $150 and getting it done myself in the same amount of time is worth or to me and mutually beneficial.
I built out our walk-in closet because it is nicer that the garbage the previous resident had in there. She bought the lumber but I paid for new saw blades and necessary tools and did the work.
Sure, she pays for the bigger, more expensive house things. And if I were a tenant, I would say she can pay for everything. But since it's more than just a roommate situation, me helping out helps us both save money and be a team. As opposed to many of the suggested, "It's just a business transaction" recommendations. Maybe for many it is; not me.
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Options:
- Split expenses evenly: Mortgage, insurance, utilities, groceries, etc.
- Split expenses by proportion of income
- Charge him a fair market rent, and split utilities and groceries
You may also choose to give a break the "fair" amount to charge, as he did not choose the house to live in (and might have chosen a cheaper or different place).
I believe 3 is the best option here, because he isn't gaining equity in the house so your mortgage costs are irrelevant. I would also give him a break on it for the above reason, and because he likely incurred costs moving to you, and because you aren't random roommates and you do make more than him, so trying to meet you at your level of living (standard of living, house choice) may be hard. If it were me, I'd suggest a 20-30% discount on fair market rent and 50/50 split on utilites going forward. So $800-700 for rent and $225 for utilities (but it should really be lower...), which is much less than he paid before.
How to handle the conversation:
- Open, as a few posters suggested, by asking him what is fair
- Lay out the expenses (and fair market rent if going that direction)
- Give him a gift: Let him know you do not intend to charge rent for the prior months (going back to demand it retroactively would be unfair imo, to spring it on him when you hadn't discussed it)
- Ask him for a gift: If you want, ask him for a contribution towards the prior 9 months increased utilities due to him staying with you (e.g. water went up, groceries went up, but cable was the same), whatever he thinks is "fair and reasonable". If he thinks nothing is reasonable, well that probably tells you a lot about him as a person...
- Let him know as the homeowner, you'll shoulder responsibilities for things like plumber visit, broken appliances, new roof, leaking windows, homeowner's insurance, etc.
- Ask him again, now that he knows the costs, what he thinks is fair
- Suggest the amount you think is fair
- Discuss
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It's not easy being the female breadwinner. When I warned him the conversation was coming, he made the comment: "I have a feeling you're going to ask for some crazy high amount since I lived here free all this time..." It makes me very nervous to discuss this, like I'm asking for his right arm and part of his left. These comments helped bolster my confidence, thanks!
hmm. I am also the female breadwinner in a living-together-but-not-married (but marriage is on the horizon, we have talked about it a lot) relationship. I thought you were going to say it's hard because most men are pretty socialized to think that they need to financially provide for their family/SO and it can be hard to convince them to let you pay for stuff. at least, that's how my BF is. it actually kinda worries me that he seemed to have a tone of "you're asking too much of me"! hopefully it was just out of context and he is actually okay with contributing financially :)
I suggest $975. That is splitting things 50/50 and it's only $75 more than what he previously paid. If his job is now dependable and well paying, as you've indicated, this shouldn't be a problem. I would also think that a responsible partner would be anxious to even the financial scales a little bit.
+1
I doubt your BF is reaching into his pocket if the dishwasher goes or the roof leaks.
This. And the truth is, maybe he shouldn't. Charge him fair rent and when something breaks, you fix it because it is your house.
I do also agree that you should get his input.
Mandy, I completely agree. He shouldn't be responsible for fixing things with a house he isn't owning. But he also should be responsible for paying fair market rent so that OP can afford to fix these things. I appreciate OP makes more money, but she already has been subsidizing her BF and now that he is gainfully employed he should be paying a fair rent. If he has an issue I would think there are more things to discuss.
I didn't even think of the maintenance issue but I totally agree with you guys!
I'm going to respectfully disagree with everyone saying that he shouldn't pay/help when things break. If he were simply a renter/roommate, I would be more inclined to agree. But since we're talking about a SO, it's in his best interest, and ever more so, the interest of the couple for him to help out and participate in repairs.
GF and I just painted the upstairs of her condo. I encouraged her to not hire anyone; we could do it no problem. I didn't have her pay me for it as, 1) it creates a nicer place for both of us; 2)we're in this together; I'm not JUST a renter.
Sure, she paid for the paint, the brushes, the new carpet. She bought the washer and dryer. But the switch failed on a ceiling fan so I bought and replaced that. The garbage disposal wasn't working when we moved in, I fixed that. That could have been $150 to a plumber/handyman or me saving (her) us the $150 and getting it done myself in the same amount of time is worth or to me and mutually beneficial.
I built out our walk-in closet because it is nicer that the garbage the previous resident had in there. She bought the lumber but I paid for new saw blades and necessary tools and did the work.
Sure, she pays for the bigger, more expensive house things. And if I were a tenant, I would say she can pay for everything. But since it's more than just a roommate situation, me helping out helps us both save money and be a team. As opposed to many of the suggested, "It's just a business transaction" recommendations. Maybe for many it is; not me.
I guess to me it depends on where you're at in the relationship. if you're basically certain you're going to get married (or just both in it for the long haul, if you don't believe in marriage or something) then what you're describing makes sense. I know my BF and I are going to combine finances eventually when we get married, so I don't stress too much about it. OP sounds like they are maybe not quite to that point yet. but I might be misinterpreting it!
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I'm going to respectfully disagree with everyone saying that he shouldn't pay/help when things break. If he were simply a renter/roommate, I would be more inclined to agree. But since we're talking about a SO, it's in his best interest, and ever more so, the interest of the couple for him to help out and participate in repairs.
GF and I just painted the upstairs of her condo. I encouraged her to not hire anyone; we could do it no problem. I didn't have her pay me for it as, 1) it creates a nicer place for both of us; 2)we're in this together; I'm not JUST a renter.
Sure, she paid for the paint, the brushes, the new carpet. She bought the washer and dryer. But the switch failed on a ceiling fan so I bought and replaced that. The garbage disposal wasn't working when we moved in, I fixed that. That could have been $150 to a plumber/handyman or me saving (her) us the $150 and getting it done myself in the same amount of time is worth or to me and mutually beneficial.
I built out our walk-in closet because it is nicer that the garbage the previous resident had in there. She bought the lumber but I paid for new saw blades and necessary tools and did the work.
Sure, she pays for the bigger, more expensive house things. And if I were a tenant, I would say she can pay for everything. But since it's more than just a roommate situation, me helping out helps us both save money and be a team. As opposed to many of the suggested, "It's just a business transaction" recommendations. Maybe for many it is; not me.
Zataks, I think many are suggesting that big ticket items are hers, as the homeowner, which it seems like you agree with. I don't think anyone would disagree that it'd be nice for him to pay for the smaller odds and ends every so often, but it's hard to say that in a finance discussion ("oh, and I'd like it if you surprised me with flowers and the odd small house purchase..."). I never bugged my landlord to change a lightbulb, I just did it myself. Similarly, you paid for a small part, and tools I expect you'll use again later on (or I hope so, or it was a bad investment into them!).
No one's suggested paying for "sweat equity" that he (or you, in the equivalent situation w/garabage repair or closet build) puts into the place. That definitely would take it to the business transaction level! One helps out because it's one's partner and one wants to do so, regardless whether you are living together and benefiting or not.
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Is it coincidence that CommonCents recommendation on the conversation sounds like a fantastic, simple plan? =)
So I shouldn't just pick up flooring when I get take out tonight? That bit made be laugh!
I guess I just assume there is a pretty serious level of commitment if OP supported him rent free for, was it 9 months?
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Is it coincidence that CommonCents recommendation on the conversation sounds like a fantastic, simple plan? =)
So I shouldn't just pick up flooring when I get take out tonight? That bit made be laugh!
I guess I just assume there is a pretty serious level of commitment if OP supported him rent free for, was it 9 months?
Thanks!
Haha, yeah, typo I fixed already before I saw your post :P But hey, flooring's a great gift for the mustachian partner!
Yes, I agree I assume serious too given her support the past 9 months, but I also see this as a time for *him* to now show *her* that he isn't using her financially. (The conversation they had already worries me a bit too, that he doesn't seem happy and willing to step up, but rather that she's "making" him pay.)
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I'd just be careful not to let "boyfriend" be a big part of the decision making. Obviously there is a "range" of what boyfriend means from "just moved in together" to "we've already named our future children" but in reality, aside from your relationship, this is just a roommate. Someone renting from you and consuming utilities. You don't know what the future will hold.
First step - determine if the free rent in the past was a gift. (Ideally you decided/discussed that up front, but if not, hash that out.) If it isn't, discuss repayment, separate from "rent/utility" going forward.
Second step - figure out what you would want from a roommate for rent and utilities.
It's true that each person tends to give advice based on their own life, and I'm no different. I treated a "girlfriend" much more like a fiance/wife, helped her with debts and cars and being her backup plan for rent when she'd spend too much during the month... but in the end we broke up and all of my "planning for the future" was just a nice debt escape plan for her and a big step back on my own long-term plans.
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Split the costs in half. Lay out the utility bills. Work on lowering them together...
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I'd charge for half of the utilities.
For rent, I'd charge either half of the rent on a house, or the cost to rent a room if he were doing that somewhere else. Or somewhere in between.
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Go with a floating rate dependent upon quality of bedroom activities.
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TLDR;
If you aren't married, you are not sharing the same finances, and thus may not share the same financial goals.
Therefore he should pay just like someone renting. Maybe not half the mortgage, but whatever splitting a similar apartment/house would cost if you were to rent it from craigslist.
ie, here, my GF has a $250k + duplex. I wouldn't pay half her mortgage/utilities if I lived there. I would pay the cost for splitting a 2br Flat.
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Options:
- Split expenses evenly: Mortgage, insurance, utilities, groceries, etc.
- Split expenses by proportion of income
- Charge him a fair market rent, and split utilities and groceries
You may also choose to give a break the "fair" amount to charge, as he did not choose the house to live in (and might have chosen a cheaper or different place).
I believe 3 is the best option here, because he isn't gaining equity in the house so your mortgage costs are irrelevant. I would also give him a break on it for the above reason, and because he likely incurred costs moving to you, and because you aren't random roommates and you do make more than him, so trying to meet you at your level of living (standard of living, house choice) may be hard. If it were me, I'd suggest a 20-30% discount on fair market rent and 50/50 split on utilites going forward. So $800-700 for rent and $225 for utilities (but it should really be lower...), which is much less than he paid before.
How to handle the conversation:
- Open, as a few posters suggested, by asking him what is fair
- Lay out the expenses (and fair market rent if going that direction)
- Give him a gift: Let him know you do not intend to charge rent for the prior months (going back to demand it retroactively would be unfair imo, to spring it on him when you hadn't discussed it)
- Ask him for a gift: If you want, ask him for a contribution towards the prior 9 months increased utilities due to him staying with you (e.g. water went up, groceries went up, but cable was the same), whatever he thinks is "fair and reasonable". If he thinks nothing is reasonable, well that probably tells you a lot about him as a person...
- Let him know as the homeowner, you'll shoulder responsibilities for things like plumber visit, broken appliances, new roof, leaking windows, homeowner's insurance, etc.
- Ask him again, now that he knows the costs, what he thinks is fair
- Suggest the amount you think is fair
- Discuss
+1 to the steps for handling the conversation. Based on what you know and the advice you've received, decide what you think is fair. Discuss with him what he thinks is fair, tell him that you won't be charging him for the 9 free months (this is probably easiest, and should make his view of the final price more reasonable), and then discuss all the related expenses. Come to a final agreement on what a fair price would be.
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All great suggestions. I am immensely grateful for the help in recognizing my subsidy of and investment in him.
For the first few months, he wouldn't even let me buy him mouthwash (he was THAT insecure with his financial role, even severely depressed when my sewer pipe broke and he couldn't help with the massive bill). He did put $1500 toward landscaping that was his idea, which I repaid him when he indicated he didn't want equity in the house. Yesterday he asked if I would split the cost of lawn service because he's tired of mowing the lawn (of ALL the bills!!!). I said: I am not comfortable taking on new bills at this time, let's revisit after we arrange our household finances. He was not interested in having that conversation last night and we went to bed in silence. Maybe I tried to discuss too soon after he started working again before he could get back on his feet. Or maybe he got too used to a good thing. Therefore, I appreciate the poster who said don't let BF have TOO much say.
I plan to suggest a slightly discounted market rate rent (I don't think he would have chosen a 2500-sq-ft house as his bachelor pad), and half utilities. I am planning an August 1 start date (his first month on the job was June). I listed my monthly utilities (which average $380 once I looked through historical bills) in a spreadsheet for him and will discuss with him a fair rent. If he can't communicate about that like an adult, well, then I will pick a fee myself and have a bigger conversation with him...
I feel much more headstrong now, thanks! Will report back in August.
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Girlfriend and I split rent based on income.
It isn't so easy as this example
Person 1 makes 80k Person 2 makes 40k
Rent is 1200
Person 1 pays 800 Person 2 pays 400
We break it down on a after tax bases...because Person 1 pays a much higher tax rate overall it ends up being something like.... Person 1 pays 700 Person 2 pays 500
Our other expenses are just split equally. This arrangement is something I am fine with and I would like to see other couples adopt it, unfortunately I know a few couples where the income difference is huge and the rent is just split down the middle.
Our arrangement is also so if either person loses their job his/her contribution will still never fall beneath 30%. This might not be possible if the person you are with has nothing, but we are both great savers so it works in our case. (in our case Person 2 actually has more saved than Person 1 but makes less...so pays less rent.)
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tepster,
I think you have a good plan, including setting a date in the future for the rent to start (although I might urge you to consider asking him to pay at least half the groceries this month, if not groceries and utilities). Also good to hold off on incurring new bills until after he's looked at the current ones. If you don't split chores equally already, perhaps you might offer instead to trade some chores so he's not doing all of the mowing.
Let us know how it goes!
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We break it down on a after tax bases...because Person 1 pays a much higher tax rate overall it ends up being something like.... Person 1 pays 700 Person 2 pays 500
We do it the same way too actually. This allows us to ignore the income that goes to our individual pretax retirement funds when computing cost share. This ends up benefitting the lower earner (me) a bit more because we put in basically the same dollar amount to deferred comp but that's a bigger percentage of my income. We still end up pretty close to 60/40 and like round, easy numbers so unless there is a drastic pay change, not much realignment has to be done.
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My advice:
Average what everyone said here, and go with that.
Some people said half, some people said salary-based, some people said 60/40... average all of it, and go with that.
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You should charge him fair market value. He is getting away with murder.
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Also I just noticed the lawn thing. He def shouldn't pick and choose bills he wants to pay for and others he doesn't. Both of you have to agree on hiring a yardman...
I don't know your current arrangement but if your doing 70% and him 30% he should def do the lawn and not complain :)
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And I'll say it: If these conversations don't go well? Better that you know now rather than later when perhaps married, finances entwined, and kids.
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Based on your last post, I think you have a good plan. Don't be concerned if people on here say you're being too nice or he's taking advantage. None of us know the dynamics of your relationship.
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Consider having "the conversation" now instead of in August. You can still set a future start date like September 1st but it lets you know now where you stand and gives him time to plan for contributions starting.
Be sure and let us know how it all works out and good luck!
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Based on your last post, I think you have a good plan. Don't be concerned if people on here say you're being too nice or he's taking advantage. None of us know the dynamics of your relationship.
With all due respect...you don't know the dynamics of her relationship either. Nine months and not working? He's "tired" of mowing the lawn? This guy should man up. That property should be in ship shape. Everything fixed and improved. If I was being supported by someone I sure as Hell would not be whining about mowing the lawn in exchange for food, shelter, security and sex. If I can be blunt, and I'm sorry if some feelings are hurt here, but how does this woman's Father feel about this arrangement. I know I would not like it one bit.
There needs to be some facepunching here
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Based on your last post, I think you have a good plan. Don't be concerned if people on here say you're being too nice or he's taking advantage. None of us know the dynamics of your relationship.
With all due respect...you don't know the dynamics of her relationship either. Nine months and not working? He's "tired" of mowing the lawn? This guy should man up. That property should be in ship shape. Everything fixed and improved. If I was being supported by someone I sure as Hell would not be whining about mowing the lawn in exchange for food, shelter, security and sex. If I can be blunt, and I'm sorry if some feelings are hurt here, but how does this woman's Father feel about this arrangement. I know I would not like it one bit.
There needs to be some facepunching here
to be fair I thought he was in school that whole time, not just unemployed
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Based on your last post, I think you have a good plan. Don't be concerned if people on here say you're being too nice or he's taking advantage. None of us know the dynamics of your relationship.
With all due respect...you don't know the dynamics of her relationship either. Nine months and not working? He's "tired" of mowing the lawn? This guy should man up. That property should be in ship shape. Everything fixed and improved. If I was being supported by someone I sure as Hell would not be whining about mowing the lawn in exchange for food, shelter, security and sex. If I can be blunt, and I'm sorry if some feelings are hurt here, but how does this woman's Father feel about this arrangement. I know I would not like it one bit.
There needs to be some facepunching here
More fire: HE is the one who should have offered the rent/expenses share conversation. If you don't bring it up, was he just going to keep living rent free w/o a care in the world?
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Here's the bottom line:
You don't have to provide room and board for him, but you did . . . . as a gift. I have paid rent for someone else when they fell on hard times and needed it as a gift, so I completely understand that. If you love someone, that's what you do. But, as you have realized, it shouldn't & cannot be the plan for the indefinite future.
He now has income and needs to decide:
1) does he want to continue living in your house if it will now cost him $X (which I think should be half, and he's still getting a great deal, YMMV)
or
2) does he want to live somewhere else that will cost him $Y.
The "here are the TOTAL bills including full mortgage payment, utilities, etc. What do you think is a fair amount to contribute going forward?" conversation will be enlightening. Maybe what he will say is half or perhaps even more because he wants to pay you back in some way? That would be a good sign. If it's a lot less than what you were thinking would be fair, then you need to simply ask him what his reasoning is regarding why that is a fair amount (no need to argue, just see what his thought process is), and then you need to think very long and hard about this relationship if his thought processes are radically different from yours or if the angles he uses to justify the amount are advantaging him too much to your disadvantage.
Part of me strongly agrees with viper. I've learned from experience that if you give someone something out of the goodness of your heart, then some folks will be grateful but on the other hand some folks will immediately take what you gave already for granted and immediately expect that and then some more going forward. There are also even folks who figure out they can float around not paying their share, and that becomes the way they operate in life. The not wanting you to buy mouthwash and the contribution to the landscaping initially were good signs, but complaining about the yard work and then giving the cold shoulder when your broached finances are bad signs.
Good luck!
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If you charge him market rate for rent, you may not be able to evict him immediately if you break up. I seem to remember a case or two about this. It would be an uncomfortable situation if he has a legal right to stay in your place for xx days after a breakup.
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If you charge him market rate for rent, you may not be able to evict him immediately if you break up. I seem to remember a case or two about this. It would be an uncomfortable situation if he has a legal right to stay in your place for xx days after a breakup.
I don't think it makes a difference whether he is charged rent or not, legally. I have a buddy who let someone live with him for free and she went a little crazy. He called the police and asked them to make her leave, but they said they couldn't do anything since she had not committed a crime and he had to go through the formal eviction process since he had given her permission to live there for some minimum amount of time (2 or 3 weeks I think). This is in California, not sure if it is different elsewhere.
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I'd love to hear the end of the story when the conversation happens. I too think you should talk to him in July if you want to start this in August. It'll give him some more time to mull it over and for your ideas and discussions to develop.
As for my system with BF when we first moved in together, we earned about the same, me a little less than him. What we did was:
1) Opened a joint bank account
2) Calculate how much it would take to pay rent, utilities, transportation and any other bill we wanted to share.
3) Establish a percentage of our income to be deposited on the bank account, where we paid rent out of. We started at 50%. Each of us would put 50% of our paychecks there. This was really tight for us (low pay for recent graduates), and of course for you it could be much less. Anyway, this meant that if one of us got a raise or a lower paying job, we'd fiddle around with the percentage, but each one of us would be contributing proportionally. It just seemed fair.
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I'm wondering if you've asked a realtor in your area what a home like yours would rent for? That might help you figure a 50/50 split of an amount if you just pretended you were both renting the place together. Also, split all utilities, grocery bills, etc. 50/50. Owner expenses like repairs, insurance should belong to you as you are the one gaining the equity.
Or, you can estimate this yourself by this method. I have heard that if you want to rent your home to figure 1% of the assessed value. So, if your home is worth 200,000 then rent would be 2000 and his half would be 1000. Even if that's more than half your mortgage, I'd still say that's fair. As the owner, you have a ton of expenses to cover that he won't.
Good luck.
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Keep in mind that you supported him like a wife for the past year, and in another year would be considered common law married...
I think wife "spouse" is the word you were looking for there.
Nope wife is it! I have been the single wage earner for the past 11 years, due to 5 yrs of school for him (sound familar?) and then a back injury. So this sounds like a wife discription to me. My hubby started part time a few months ago, which is a relief. He was also SAH parent. It is actually really common for wives to put their husbands through school... Almost a 1980's TV cliche, really.
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IF you were married, your student debt would be his and vice versa, so go ahead -- add in all your debt repayment schedule to the mix of household expenses, then divy it up at 85k/125K 68% for you, and 40k/125K 32% for him. (assuming $20/hr is roughly 40k per year)
I am taking this out of context because that's not how student loan debt works in the US. You take on student loan debt in your own name, and currently, cannot consolidate student loans with your spouse (I know this was previously an option to get student loans into one payment per couple, but it's super messy in the case of a divorce, so it's not allowed anymore via the federal govt. consolidation program--of course you could take on a personal loan to pay off the two separate loans and have a combined payment, but then you give up the rights to forbearance and loan forgiveness options). If you die, as long as you were the only signer on your loan (no co-signers), your student loan dies with you and your spouse isn't responsible. That was the only thing that made me nervous about the debt snowball my DH and I did when we were working to pay off our loans--his were smaller loans and also higher interest, so we paid them first.
I agree, for certain!
But. If you are married for the next 50 yrs, wouldn't you be paying it off together even if it remains in one person's name. I know my response is pushing the edge a bit (thank you anonymous internet), but consider this...
If you are living with you BF of GF, to the point that you are fully supporting them and they don't even chip in for groceries or get a loan to help out a bit with utilities, (and who has the car costs for that occasional trip and or picnic out?) and likely are not putting major time into making your life easier with housekeeping etc. -Due to that FT school workload, you know. And never discussed terms at the start.. THAT tells me one person is thinking like this is a life long relationship.
Life long means sharing debt payments one way or another.
Roommate means half, if they agree, or market rate if you were to share the house with friend.It is not a year of charity without a discussion...
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Based on your last post, I think you have a good plan. Don't be concerned if people on here say you're being too nice or he's taking advantage. None of us know the dynamics of your relationship.
With all due respect...you don't know the dynamics of her relationship either. Nine months and not working? He's "tired" of mowing the lawn? This guy should man up. That property should be in ship shape. Everything fixed and improved. If I was being supported by someone I sure as Hell would not be whining about mowing the lawn in exchange for food, shelter, security and sex. If I can be blunt, and I'm sorry if some feelings are hurt here, but how does this woman's Father feel about this arrangement. I know I would not like it one bit.
There needs to be some facepunching here
More fire: HE is the one who should have offered the rent/expenses share conversation. If you don't bring it up, was he just going to keep living rent free w/o a care in the world?
This is the most troubling part of the whole scenario. It suggests that either he takes all the expenses paid for him and trouble that she's going to for granted, or he believes he's entitled to it. Either scenario would bother me as the primary money maker in that relationship.
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Based on your last post, I think you have a good plan. Don't be concerned if people on here say you're being too nice or he's taking advantage. None of us know the dynamics of your relationship.
With all due respect...you don't know the dynamics of her relationship either. Nine months and not working? He's "tired" of mowing the lawn? This guy should man up. That property should be in ship shape. Everything fixed and improved. If I was being supported by someone I sure as Hell would not be whining about mowing the lawn in exchange for food, shelter, security and sex. If I can be blunt, and I'm sorry if some feelings are hurt here, but how does this woman's Father feel about this arrangement. I know I would not like it one bit.
There needs to be some facepunching here
More fire: HE is the one who should have offered the rent/expenses share conversation. If you don't bring it up, was he just going to keep living rent free w/o a care in the world?
This is the most troubling part of the whole scenario. It suggests that either he takes all the expenses paid for him and trouble that she's going to for granted, or he believes he's entitled to it. Either scenario would bother me as the primary money maker in that relationship.
Or maybe it's embarrassing? I can imagine that might be the case these days. We went, fairly quickly, from men being the breadwinner to that not necessarily being the case.
In any event, I had a former coworker who lost half his house to his ex girlfriend. She never worked for money really. So he could not get a mortgage with her. He bought the house and went back and put her on the title. And then they split.
Now, they were together long enough that I personally consider that they were "married", so really, that's sort of fair. He was pissed though, because she broke it off.
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If you lived in Canada, FYI, the law would automatically assume you were "equivalent to married" e.g., common law, after 2 yrs... and many of the legal marriage (separation rights) would then apply.
And in some aspects of Canadian and British Columbian couples law, just one year does it! (Heck, in some cases couples have been taxed retroactively as a "married couple" from points before cohabitation.) Know the laws that apply to you if living with someone.
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Or maybe it's embarrassing? I can imagine that might be the case these days. We went, fairly quickly, from men being the breadwinner to that not necessarily being the case.
Maybe it's just me, but if being a sponge was causing me embarrassment, the first thing I'd do upon landing a job would be to offer to pay my share of things. Not sure how embarrassment over failure to equally shoulder financial responsibility works causes someone to continue to avoid said responsibilities.
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When my wife was my live-in girlfriend for almost 2 years before we got married, I charged her a salary-based percentage which worked out to something like a 35/65 split. Of course, at no point did she live with me for 9 months without contributing a dime. So, I feel a 50/50 split is more appropriate in this case.
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Or maybe it's embarrassing? I can imagine that might be the case these days. We went, fairly quickly, from men being the breadwinner to that not necessarily being the case.
Maybe it's just me, but if being a sponge was causing me embarrassment, the first thing I'd do upon landing a job would be to offer to pay my share of things. Not sure how embarrassment over failure to equally shoulder financial responsibility works causes someone to continue to avoid said responsibilities.
I think this is a personality thing. For me personally, I think I could see myself doing that if I were in the situation.
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The important thing is that OP and her boyfriend are able to figure out an arrangement that they are both happy with. It's helpful for people to offer ideas for how to share costs, but I doubt she wants a critique on her relationship or boyfriend. All we know about them is a few paragraphs and it's not enough to make conclusions anyway.
Good luck tepster.
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I would tell him he can pay whatever he is comfortable paying, no questions asked. If it is significantly less than half, I would tell him you expect him to contribute labor to maintaining and improving the property and/or satisfying your needs, hehe.
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I also live in NJ and was in a similar situation.
My SO and I have been together for 5 years. Around our 2nd year, he lost his job. He was on unemployment for almost a year before getting his job back. During his unemployment, I paid for everything. As soon as he got his job back, I required him to pay half of rent and utilities even though what he made a year was half of what I make.
Until we are married, he will continue to pay half of living expenses. The only thing I don't make him pay half of is groceries unless he buys ridiculous stuff.
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It's probably worth putting the ball in his court and asking him what he feels he should be paying? It sounds like he probably feels guilty for not paying the first 9 months.
I wouldn't do this. You're putting his two competing interests in direct conflict--his interest in saving money and his interest in doing his part. Ask for what you want. You own the asset you set the price.
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Based on your last post, I think you have a good plan. Don't be concerned if people on here say you're being too nice or he's taking advantage. None of us know the dynamics of your relationship.
With all due respect...you don't know the dynamics of her relationship either. Nine months and not working? He's "tired" of mowing the lawn? This guy should man up. That property should be in ship shape. Everything fixed and improved. If I was being supported by someone I sure as Hell would not be whining about mowing the lawn in exchange for food, shelter, security and sex. If I can be blunt, and I'm sorry if some feelings are hurt here, but how does this woman's Father feel about this arrangement. I know I would not like it one bit.
There needs to be some facepunching here
More fire: HE is the one who should have offered the rent/expenses share conversation. If you don't bring it up, was he just going to keep living rent free w/o a care in the world?
This is the most troubling part of the whole scenario. It suggests that either he takes all the expenses paid for him and trouble that she's going to for granted, or he believes he's entitled to it. Either scenario would bother me as the primary money maker in that relationship.
Precisely! The fact he as the man (regardless if he is not employed) does not raise helping out more would bother me immensely! Furthermore, if I was in the OP situation I'd recommend trusting your gut more. We don't know exactly what the OP is feeling but I am willing to wager you have doubts on how "invested" he is in your relationship. You have every right to doubt him because so far he has demonstrated an entitlement attitude and that would not sit well with me.
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Keep in mind that you supported him like a wife for the past year, and in another year would be considered common law married...
I think wife "spouse" is the word you were looking for there.
Nope wife is it! I have been the single wage earner for the past 11 years, due to 5 yrs of school for him (sound familar?) and then a back injury. So this sounds like a wife discription to me. My hubby started part time a few months ago, which is a relief. He was also SAH parent. It is actually really common for wives to put their husbands through school... Almost a 1980's TV cliche, really.
So if a man supports his spouse as a single wage earner while she goes to school full time then he is...a wife? And doing a "wifely" duty? I'll go with "spouse" on this one myself since, old gender role stereotypes aside, I know many men who are single working wage earners who financially support their wives while they go to school full time.
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Or maybe it's embarrassing? I can imagine that might be the case these days. We went, fairly quickly, from men being the breadwinner to that not necessarily being the case.
Maybe it's just me, but if being a sponge was causing me embarrassment, the first thing I'd do upon landing a job would be to offer to pay my share of things. Not sure how embarrassment over failure to equally shoulder financial responsibility works causes someone to continue to avoid said responsibilities.
This is my opinion also. I wondered why it wasn't the first thing he brought up as soon as he had a job. That would have been a HUGE red flag for me. And the fact that she doesn't feel comfortable asking a person she lives with and is intimate with to help share a portion of the costs (and puts it off until several months into his job) makes me believe she has a fear he may leave her if she asks him to pay. I also wondered why he didn't work a p/t job while in school either to help contribute. But I'm not trying to be judgy, just voicing what would be my own personal concerns and expectations of a live-in BF I was supporting.
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I also live in NJ and was in a similar situation.
My SO and I have been together for 5 years. Around our 2nd year, he lost his job. He was on unemployment for almost a year before getting his job back. During his unemployment, I paid for everything. As soon as he got his job back, I required him to pay half of rent and utilities even though what he made a year was half of what I make.
Until we are married, he will continue to pay half of living expenses. The only thing I don't make him pay half of is groceries unless he buys ridiculous stuff.
"Required him"
"He will continue"
"Only thing I don't make him pay"
You sound like a fun person to date.
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Keep in mind that you supported him like a wife for the past year, and in another year would be considered common law married...
I think wife "spouse" is the word you were looking for there.
Nope wife is it! I have been the single wage earner for the past 11 years, due to 5 yrs of school for him (sound familar?) and then a back injury. So this sounds like a wife discription to me. My hubby started part time a few months ago, which is a relief. He was also SAH parent. It is actually really common for wives to put their husbands through school... Almost a 1980's TV cliche, really.
So if a man supports his spouse as a single wage earner while she goes to school full time then he is...a wife? And doing a "wifely" duty? I'll go with "spouse" on this one myself since, old gender role stereotypes aside, I know many men who are single working wage earners who financially support their wives while they go to school full time.
Uh, this is a mere linguistic misunderstanding. OP is currently girlfriend, but she's acting like a wife in her support of the guy. I.e., OP is supporting the guy "like [she is] a wife." I believe that's what goldielocks is saying.
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Living together with no pre-aranged agreement for splitting finances or defined legal protections (ie....marital laws) is like starting a cupcake business or social media business with your college buddies and expecting it all to go well and fairly for everyone. These have ended badly for others. You've already lived together as spouses, with one of you supporting the other.
The quotes in the "charge" part of the title sounds like you want to tell your BF what to pay you but don't want to be the bad person in having to tell him. I don't "charge" or "pay" my spouse for anything. We're married. We don't always agree, but we have a foundation that at least puts us in the right frame of reference for our discussions on any topic. That keeps our relationship front and center and pushes everything else to the rear. Over the years, I've financially supported her 100% while she was in school and/or without a job, and she has financially supported me 100% while I was in school and/or without a job (we've been married quite a while). Also, if you had a short-term plan to get married in the very near future, I don't think this would be a question either because you would be more vested in your relationship at that point as well. This question only arises because there is not an agreed upon future that you trust as the foundation of your relationship. As a result, you're trying to wear your "girlfriend" hat at the same time as the "landlord" hat. I doubt that's an appealing selfie you would post on Facebook.
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Keep in mind that you supported him like a wife for the past year, and in another year would be considered common law married...
I think wife "spouse" is the word you were looking for there.
Nope wife is it! I have been the single wage earner for the past 11 years, due to 5 yrs of school for him (sound familar?) and then a back injury. So this sounds like a wife discription to me. My hubby started part time a few months ago, which is a relief. He was also SAH parent. It is actually really common for wives to put their husbands through school... Almost a 1980's TV cliche, really.
So if a man supports his spouse as a single wage earner while she goes to school full time then he is...a wife? And doing a "wifely" duty? I'll go with "spouse" on this one myself since, old gender role stereotypes aside, I know many men who are single working wage earners who financially support their wives while they go to school full time.
Uh, this is a mere linguistic misunderstanding. OP is currently girlfriend, but she's acting like a wife in her support of the guy. I.e., OP is supporting the guy "like [she is] a wife." I believe that's what goldielocks is saying.
You may be right. I was just going by when Goldielocks said "no" to the use of gender-neutral word "spouse" when posed as an alternate to "wife". Sheclaimed it should be "wife" rather than "spouse". But doesn't matter really. No biggie.
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Keep in mind that you supported him like a wife for the past year, and in another year would be considered common law married...
I think wife "spouse" is the word you were looking for there.
Nope wife is it! I have been the single wage earner for the past 11 years, due to 5 yrs of school for him (sound familar?) and then a back injury. So this sounds like a wife discription to me. My hubby started part time a few months ago, which is a relief. He was also SAH parent. It is actually really common for wives to put their husbands through school... Almost a 1980's TV cliche, really.
So if a man supports his spouse as a single wage earner while she goes to school full time then he is...a wife? And doing a "wifely" duty? I'll go with "spouse" on this one myself since, old gender role stereotypes aside, I know many men who are single working wage earners who financially support their wives while they go to school full time.
Uh, this is a mere linguistic misunderstanding. OP is currently girlfriend, but she's acting like a wife in her support of the guy. I.e., OP is supporting the guy "like [she is] a wife." I believe that's what goldielocks is saying.
You may be right. I was just going by when Goldielocks said "no" to the use of gender-neutral word "spouse" when posed as an alternate to "wife". Sheclaimed it should be "wife" rather than "spouse". But doesn't matter really. No biggie.
So you object to calling female spouses "wives"? I guess that's a completely different can of worms.
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Keep in mind that you supported him like a wife for the past year, and in another year would be considered common law married...
I think wife "spouse" is the word you were looking for there.
Nope wife is it! I have been the single wage earner for the past 11 years, due to 5 yrs of school for him (sound familar?) and then a back injury. So this sounds like a wife discription to me. My hubby started part time a few months ago, which is a relief. He was also SAH parent. It is actually really common for wives to put their husbands through school... Almost a 1980's TV cliche, really.
So if a man supports his spouse as a single wage earner while she goes to school full time then he is...a wife? And doing a "wifely" duty? I'll go with "spouse" on this one myself since, old gender role stereotypes aside, I know many men who are single working wage earners who financially support their wives while they go to school full time.
Uh, this is a mere linguistic misunderstanding. OP is currently girlfriend, but she's acting like a wife in her support of the guy. I.e., OP is supporting the guy "like [she is] a wife." I believe that's what goldielocks is saying.
You may be right. I was just going by when Goldielocks said "no" to the use of gender-neutral word "spouse" when posed as an alternate to "wife". Sheclaimed it should be "wife" rather than "spouse". But doesn't matter really. No biggie.
So you object to calling female spouses "wives"? I guess that's a completely different can of worms.
No - and that's not what I said either.
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Keep in mind that you supported him like a wife for the past year, and in another year would be considered common law married...
I think wife "spouse" is the word you were looking for there.
Nope wife is it! I have been the single wage earner for the past 11 years, due to 5 yrs of school for him (sound familar?) and then a back injury. So this sounds like a wife discription to me. My hubby started part time a few months ago, which is a relief. He was also SAH parent. It is actually really common for wives to put their husbands through school... Almost a 1980's TV cliche, really.
So if a man supports his spouse as a single wage earner while she goes to school full time then he is...a wife? And doing a "wifely" duty? I'll go with "spouse" on this one myself since, old gender role stereotypes aside, I know many men who are single working wage earners who financially support their wives while they go to school full time.
Uh, this is a mere linguistic misunderstanding. OP is currently girlfriend, but she's acting like a wife in her support of the guy. I.e., OP is supporting the guy "like [she is] a wife." I believe that's what goldielocks is saying.
You may be right. I was just going by when Goldielocks said "no" to the use of gender-neutral word "spouse" when posed as an alternate to "wife". Sheclaimed it should be "wife" rather than "spouse". But doesn't matter really. No biggie.
So you object to calling female spouses "wives"? I guess that's a completely different can of worms.
No - and that's not what I said either.
I'm not sure what your point is then. If I say "Jill is bob's wife" and someone goes "you mean spouse!" I would also say no, probably more emphatically than done so here.
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I'm not sure what your point is then. If I say "Jill is bob's wife" and someone goes "you mean spouse!" I would also say no, probably more emphatically than done so here.
Like I said, not important, doesn't matter, you are probably right in that I simply misinterpreted Goldielocks meaning. As far as I'm concerned, people should call themselves and their spouses whatever they both want to call themselves. I personally consider them interchangeable but only for myself - don't expect others to do the same and would respect their choice. But to each his own. Sorry to have derail the thread.
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I wouldn't even ask for rent. That way he couldn't claim any ownership in the house. How about coming up with expenses that total roughly $1,000 a month. For example, pay $200 to cover some of the utilities and $800 to cover food and going out to eat.
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Keep in mind that you supported him like a wife for the past year, and in another year would be considered common law married...
I think wife "spouse" is the word you were looking for there.
Nope wife is it! I have been the single wage earner for the past 11 years, due to 5 yrs of school for him (sound familar?) and then a back injury. So this sounds like a wife discription to me. My hubby started part time a few months ago, which is a relief. He was also SAH parent. It is actually really common for wives to put their husbands through school... Almost a 1980's TV cliche, really.
So if a man supports his spouse as a single wage earner while she goes to school full time then he is...a wife? And doing a "wifely" duty? I'll go with "spouse" on this one myself since, old gender role stereotypes aside, I know many men who are single working wage earners who financially support their wives while they go to school full time.
Uh, this is a mere linguistic misunderstanding. OP is currently girlfriend, but she's acting like a wife in her support of the guy. I.e., OP is supporting the guy "like [she is] a wife." I believe that's what goldielocks is saying.
Thanks..
To be clear... What I intended to say was that... OP is supporting her boyfriend like a wife would support a husband who is going to school, or ill, or is a SAHD, or...?
Many of us think of the stereotype of husband as bread winner, but another cliche is just as common... Wife supports husband through medical school (grad school), and he leaves her within 3 years of graduating. Or so the movies go...and those are rarely true, but anyway...
OP. I am not saying that will happen to you, but it may be likely that you had your wishful thinking blinders on when he moved in and you did not discuss. If he has no interest in shared home equity, why? Is this a passion for never merging finances, like some long term couples here, or no long term vision? How much each spends in the next year is minor compared to those questions.
I have a pet peeve about people moving in together without a declared intention of long term commitment, so saw this thread as an opportunity to throw some ideas around. That is my bias, not the OP's
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Keep in mind that you supported him like a wife for the past year, and in another year would be considered common law married...
I think wife "spouse" is the word you were looking for there.
Nope wife is it! I have been the single wage earner for the past 11 years, due to 5 yrs of school for him (sound familar?) and then a back injury. So this sounds like a wife discription to me. My hubby started part time a few months ago, which is a relief. He was also SAH parent. It is actually really common for wives to put their husbands through school... Almost a 1980's TV cliche, really.
So if a man supports his spouse as a single wage earner while she goes to school full time then he is...a wife? And doing a "wifely" duty? I'll go with "spouse" on this one myself since, old gender role stereotypes aside, I know many men who are single working wage earners who financially support their wives while they go to school full time.
No gender bias intended, I used wife as opposed to girlfriend simply because the poster is female. If the poster were male, husband works very well too.
My point is about the nature of the relationship is beyond BF/GF.... as living and money arrangements were not discussed with terms, originally, she took on responsibility at a higher relationship level.
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Good lord, when it doubt, keep it simple. Half of mortgage and utilities and no questions asked. If he doesn't want to pay that it speaks volumes.
What you make is irrelevant, what he makes in relation to that is also irrelevant. How much equity (or lack thereof) you have in the house is irrelevant. You are sharing a home together, so share the expenses together. The fact that you make more shouldn't enter the equation since he is now in a position to pay half the costs comfortably. You did him a big favor supporting him for nine months but now he no longer requires your generosity, so that spigot should be shut off immediately.
My daughter rents our rental townhouse (at a significantly discounted rate) and her boyfriend paid half of everything knowing full well that if her parents got hit by a bus she would inherit the property. Boyfriend has since moved out (more like kicked out, but I digress!). When the next person moves in, whether it be roommate or significant other, why would this change anything? That person will be expected to pay half. People, including your boyfriend, should carry their load when they are able.
Regarding home repairs, I think you get to own that one. It is your house, and he isn't making the paint or the water heater age any faster. And he also may not be there in two years. Less if he doesn't want to pay his due.
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I personally think that splitting rent in regards to income is flawed for a couple. Except maybe in the event of living in a much larger or more expensive dwelling that he wouldn't be living in otherwise- like if OP owned a Manhattan penthouse that could normally fetch $4,000 rent from a roommate. Start negociating and all of a sudden everything is up for discussion, "you eat so much more than me", "i barely use the internet whereas you download lots", "if only you didn't use the AC all the time".
My SO and I cut everything (not that there is much in the first place, and we're renters) in half by alternating bills and it makes things so much easier. Sure, some months she "gets more" out of the arrangement than I do, and some months I "get more", but whatever. It's close enough to a wash and that's not worth arguing over anyway. However you are effectively his landlord that he happens to see naked every now and then, not his roommate.
In other words, another vote for "this is what I consider a fair rent, now that you're back on your feet it's not really up for discussion", and you can still split everything else in the middle.
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I personally think that splitting rent in regards to income is flawed for a couple. Except maybe in the event of living in a much larger or more expensive dwelling that he wouldn't be living in otherwise- like if OP owned a Manhattan penthouse that could normally fetch $4,000 rent from a roommate. Start negociating and all of a sudden everything is up for discussion, "you eat so much more than me", "i barely use the internet whereas you download lots", "if only you didn't use the AC all the time".
My SO and I cut everything (not that there is much in the first place, and we're renters) in half by alternating bills and it makes things so much easier. Sure, some months she "gets more" out of the arrangement than I do, and some months I "get more", but whatever. It's close enough to a wash and that's not worth arguing over anyway. However you are effectively his landlord that he happens to see naked every now and then, not his roommate.
In other words, another vote for "this is what I consider a fair rent, now that you're back on your feet it's not really up for discussion", and you can still split everything else in the middle.
Do you know why we do the income % thing?
Because historically women earn less than men over a lifetime (kids, leaves, lack of promotion due to lack of availability or simply for being women, less negotiation skills, etc), and we didn't think it was fair to share 50-50. As a plus, if DH gets a lower-income job, it's still fair for both of us. We do none of that "proportional to use" charges. We do it proportional to income, so everyone gets the chance to save proportionally the same in regards to their income. We tweak use according to our needs and wants, with communication and understanding (most times), but the money in the joint pool is still the same.
However, we did the % agreement while both of us had an approximately similar income. We agreed to revisit this in case one of us ended up with a much higher or much lower income than the other. Right now when my income is ridiculous, we're setting to 100%, minus $100 for personal expenses each. This means he puts his whole paycheck and I put 100% of whatever freelance work comes my way. We can choose to spend or save the $100, but it's on our personal accounts.
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Keep in mind that you supported him like a wife for the past year, and in another year would be considered common law married...
I think wife "spouse" is the word you were looking for there.
Nope wife is it! I have been the single wage earner for the past 11 years, due to 5 yrs of school for him (sound familar?) and then a back injury. So this sounds like a wife discription to me. My hubby started part time a few months ago, which is a relief. He was also SAH parent. It is actually really common for wives to put their husbands through school... Almost a 1980's TV cliche, really.
So if a man supports his spouse as a single wage earner while she goes to school full time then he is...a wife? And doing a "wifely" duty? I'll go with "spouse" on this one myself since, old gender role stereotypes aside, I know many men who are single working wage earners who financially support their wives while they go to school full time.
No gender bias intended, I used wife as opposed to girlfriend simply because the poster is female. If the poster were male, husband works very well too.
My point is about the nature of the relationship is beyond BF/GF.... as living and money arrangements were not discussed with terms, originally, she took on responsibility at a higher relationship level.
I understand now - I apologize for my comment. I initially thought you meant that a wife is the only one who will work full time while putting her husband thru school, but that the reverse never happens (hubby supports wife while she goes to school). Sort of, as you said, like the old cliché. That's why I (and Shuffler) said "spouse" rather then "wife" because both of them do that in reality. My comment never had anything to do with the use of term wife or spouse, but just what I took as an implied duty of one person (wife) that isn't done by another person (husband). Anyways, I get it now - Doh :-)!
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Farmstache, that's a great argument. It doesn't make much sense to me to think in terms of his/her savings for a married couple, but that's clearly something that people have very different opinions about (there's a new thread on joint accounts every couple weeks), so I can understand that.
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Farmstache, that's a great argument. It doesn't make much sense to me to think in terms of his/her savings for a married couple, but that's clearly something that people have very different opinions about (there's a new thread on joint accounts every couple weeks), so I can understand that.
Yes, I understand. We are a very realistic, down-to-earth, skeptical couple. We don't see anything that will bring us apart in the horizon, but we also know that 50% of marriages end in divorce. We treat our finances as one thing, but one thing that sits in 3 separate bundles.
Also, if it doesn't make sense to treat it in terms of his/her, why are you guys splitting bills? Why not bundle everything up together? You are in fact separating in terms of his/her savings without maybe noticing it. If you break up tomorrow, do each of you go away with what's in your personal accounts, or will you split it 50/50 regardless of where it was sitting?
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Also, if it doesn't make sense to treat it in terms of his/her, why are you guys splitting bills? Why not bundle everything up together? You are in fact separating in terms of his/her savings without maybe noticing it. If you break up tomorrow, do each of you go away with what's in your personal accounts, or will you split it 50/50 regardless of where it was sitting?
We don't pool anything today because we are not yet married, and neither of us is comfortable joining finances until we are. If we break up tomorrow, each of us walks with our things, no harm done. We're both young with promising careers and already financially way ahead of our peers. When we eventually marry, however, everything will go into one big pot, aside from retirement accounts legally tied to one person (401Ks, IRAs, etc.). Should we divorce, say 10 years down the line, well let's just say that I expect us to be so comfortable financially that neither of us will care if 50% of our net worth goes away overnight, regardless of who earned it.
That's the plan, anyway. Hope I didn't jinx it.
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Until he's your fiance, get whatever you decide in writing.
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50% of marriages may end in divorce, but 100% of people who are or have been married will die at some point in their life.
Say no to marriage, and live forever.
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I personally think that splitting rent in regards to income is flawed for a couple. Except maybe in the event of living in a much larger or more expensive dwelling that he wouldn't be living in otherwise- like if OP owned a Manhattan penthouse that could normally fetch $4,000 rent from a roommate. Start negociating and all of a sudden everything is up for discussion, "you eat so much more than me", "i barely use the internet whereas you download lots", "if only you didn't use the AC all the time".
My SO and I cut everything (not that there is much in the first place, and we're renters) in half by alternating bills and it makes things so much easier. Sure, some months she "gets more" out of the arrangement than I do, and some months I "get more", but whatever. It's close enough to a wash and that's not worth arguing over anyway. However you are effectively his landlord that he happens to see naked every now and then, not his roommate.
In other words, another vote for "this is what I consider a fair rent, now that you're back on your feet it's not really up for discussion", and you can still split everything else in the middle.
Do you know why we do the income % thing?
Because historically women earn less than men over a lifetime (kids, leaves, lack of promotion due to lack of availability or simply for being women, less negotiation skills, etc), and we didn't think it was fair to share 50-50. As a plus, if DH gets a lower-income job, it's still fair for both of us. We do none of that "proportional to use" charges. We do it proportional to income, so everyone gets the chance to save proportionally the same in regards to their income. We tweak use according to our needs and wants, with communication and understanding (most times), but the money in the joint pool is still the same.
However, we did the % agreement while both of us had an approximately similar income. We agreed to revisit this in case one of us ended up with a much higher or much lower income than the other. Right now when my income is ridiculous, we're setting to 100%, minus $100 for personal expenses each. This means he puts his whole paycheck and I put 100% of whatever freelance work comes my way. We can choose to spend or save the $100, but it's on our personal accounts.
This will work very well for me when I retire with maybe $10k in "income" and my wife pays for >90% of expenses.
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I would determine a rent based on fair market rates in your area, not to exceed 50% of your total housing costs. If rents in your area are usually lower than mortgage + tax (as they are in my area) then I don't think you should charge the full 50%. Get a sense of rent by looking around at rental houses on Craigslist.
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We don't pool anything today because we are not yet married, and neither of us is comfortable joining finances until we are. If we break up tomorrow, each of us walks with our things, no harm done. We're both young with promising careers and already financially way ahead of our peers. When we eventually marry, however, everything will go into one big pot, aside from retirement accounts legally tied to one person (401Ks, IRAs, etc.). Should we divorce, say 10 years down the line, well let's just say that I expect us to be so comfortable financially that neither of us will care if 50% of our net worth goes away overnight, regardless of who earned it.
That's the plan, anyway. Hope I didn't jinx it.
Seems like a good plan as any. :) Good luck!
This will work very well for me when I retire with maybe $10k in "income" and my wife pays for >90% of expenses.
Not sure if trolling, but I'll answer anyway: yes, it can go quite well. Since I'm currently out of a job, this is exactly what we're doing. If we talked and agreed I could stop looking for a stable job and just do freelance for 10k a year, then, well, we'd be working this out. If he thought I should look for something better while I just wanted to stay home scratching my ass, then we'd probably talk this over, he'd ask me why is it so important to scratch my ass, I'd say it makes me happy, he'd try to get me to go to the doctor, and when I refused we might argue and eventually end things, unless he understood the importance of ass scratching at his cost.
We're a couple, and we try not to make one-sided decisions.
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I also live in NJ and was in a similar situation.
My SO and I have been together for 5 years. Around our 2nd year, he lost his job. He was on unemployment for almost a year before getting his job back. During his unemployment, I paid for everything. As soon as he got his job back, I required him to pay half of rent and utilities even though what he made a year was half of what I make.
Until we are married, he will continue to pay half of living expenses. The only thing I don't make him pay half of is groceries unless he buys ridiculous stuff.
"Required him"
"He will continue"
"Only thing I don't make him pay"
You sound like a fun person to date.
Haha. I sound harsh, but I was screwed over by my ex and then my current SO isn't very good with money so we've made sure to make things clear so that we don't end up fighting about these topics in the future.
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I also live in NJ and was in a similar situation.
My SO and I have been together for 5 years. Around our 2nd year, he lost his job. He was on unemployment for almost a year before getting his job back. During his unemployment, I paid for everything. As soon as he got his job back, I required him to pay half of rent and utilities even though what he made a year was half of what I make.
Until we are married, he will continue to pay half of living expenses. The only thing I don't make him pay half of is groceries unless he buys ridiculous stuff.
"Required him"
"He will continue"
"Only thing I don't make him pay"
You sound like a fun person to date.
Haha. I sound harsh, but I was screwed over by my ex and then my current SO isn't very good with money so we've made sure to make things clear so that we don't end up fighting about these topics in the future.
FWIW I don't think you sound harsh and you are definitely doing the smart thing :)
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50/50. If you guys are planning on having any future together the fact that he doesn't want any equity in the place is mute and comforting only him. For now you each have a checking account. Any bills or expenditures you each pay half of. If he doesn't like it and wants to move out ....well than maybe the future isn't so bright! If you lost your job would he go over and beyond to cover costs till you got back on your feet?
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If you charge him market rent, are you going to give him his own room with a lock on the door that you will only enter under the same circumstances that a landlord would? That seems kinda odd to me.
I'd give him a deal, considering that he's not just a roommate. He's going to be expected to contribute to the household in other ways than just financial.
I think?
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Not sure if trolling, but I'll answer anyway: yes, it can go quite well. Since I'm currently out of a job, this is exactly what we're doing. If we talked and agreed I could stop looking for a stable job and just do freelance for 10k a year, then, well, we'd be working this out. If he thought I should look for something better while I just wanted to stay home scratching my ass, then we'd probably talk this over, he'd ask me why is it so important to scratch my ass, I'd say it makes me happy, he'd try to get me to go to the doctor, and when I refused we might argue and eventually end things, unless he understood the importance of ass scratching at his cost.
We're a couple, and we try not to make one-sided decisions.
Nope, this is my situation. With made up numbers lets say I make $200k and have a $500k stache, which throws off around $10k in dividends per year. My new wife makes $100k and has no stache.
While I'm working, I make 2x, so I pay 2/3 of the expenses. Then, since my stache covers half our expenses, I retire. Now I make 1/10 my wife. Does that mean she should pay 9/10 the expenses? If not, then there is a significant disconnect between pre-RE and post-RE scenarios.
To me, it would be fair for me to pay 50% pre RE (when I make 2x) and 50% post RE (when I make 1/10). But I'm open to reasonable discussion on that front.
Not sure the point of your talk about scratching your ass. Aren't most of us here to retire early?
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Different strokes for different folks. Our split is kinda funky right now because she is still in school. Once she's done, we probably won't base the split in proportion to income because it seems arbitrary for us. I may downshift to part-time work or work full-time, she may work at a school and have short days and summer off, or she may work full-time all year and have income from a side business too. We'll probably look at our shared expenses and figure out what is fair for who to pay how much. Then we can both do whatever we want job wise as long as we cover our fair share. If either of us has a problem paying our share we'll help each other out.
For those who split based on proportion of income, what counts as income? Gross, net, do you count income which is invested for retirement? I hope it's OK for me to ask as the thread has taken off and OP has not been back for a while.
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Wow, I cannot believe how much attention this post received! I'm thankful for so many helpful opinions, even those whose red flags were raised.
We haven't had the official talk yet, per se, but I did learn today he owes a bit of money from being in school and jobless (he was looking for work, which one poster questioned, and was close to joining the reserves, which he did not want to do): $1500 to parents and $2500 to credit card. Guess that's how he bought his mouthwash. He did indicate that once he's on his feet and pays back the cash loan, he plans to help me pay off my student loans and household bills and "I can have all the money I need." That's fine and would amount to even more than 50% of bills (maybe his thank-you for a free nine months?), but I'd prefer something more structured than "all I need," so I will revisit in Aug. as planned. He prefers an informal and uncomplicated arrangement and thus wonders why this is stressing me out. We will split groceries this month; I bought the first round and if we run out, he can either starve or buy more.
As promised, I will keep you updated on our eventual decision. He will pick up a few extra shifts at work to pay parents back faster.
I appreciate all the advice, even the relationship advice. We're not talking marriage (maybe waaaay into the future, but I am divorced and not ready for that again) but are committed for the time being. Neither of us want kids, so all I have to protect is my assets. I will seriously take into consideration a written, binding agreement re: house, much to his certain chagrin.
P.S. Hmm, I never wondered about my dad's feelings. I'm certain no one is good enough for me in his eyes! Dad is my contractor so there's not much house-fixin' for the BF to do. He should do the lawn though, and I haven't given in about it. Sadly, the lawn hasn't been cut, either. Plan to withhold, um, my non monetary goodies until it's cut....
EDIT: Oops, but I did ask for my dad's advice last weekend. He said "50%, certainly."
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Tepster,
Thanks for the update. I have no advice to give as I haven't been in this situation, but I've been thinking about you. Hope it all works out for the best!
And your "withholding goodies" comment made me chuckle out loud!
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I'd give him a deal, considering that he's not just a roommate. He's going to be expected to contribute to the household in other ways than just financial.
BullS#!T. Everyone need s to carry there fair share.
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Half of the bills he would have as a renter (e.g. internet, power etc, but not garbage collection or property taxes) plus whatever the fair market value for 50% of the rent of an equivalent house in your neighborhood. In exchange any house related costs (property taxes, fixing the broken plumbing etc) are your problem and he should not be expected to contribute. In other words, treat him as a renter.
This is fair, as "shoe on the other foot" he doesn't want to gain equity so he shouldn't be paying your mortgage and mortgage + additional costs of home ownership over renting is generally > rent. So this is a fair outcome for him too.
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Nope, this is my situation. With made up numbers lets say I make $200k and have a $500k stache, which throws off around $10k in dividends per year. My new wife makes $100k and has no stache.
While I'm working, I make 2x, so I pay 2/3 of the expenses. Then, since my stache covers half our expenses, I retire. Now I make 1/10 my wife. Does that mean she should pay 9/10 the expenses? If not, then there is a significant disconnect between pre-RE and post-RE scenarios.
To me, it would be fair for me to pay 50% pre RE (when I make 2x) and 50% post RE (when I make 1/10). But I'm open to reasonable discussion on that front.
Not sure the point of your talk about scratching your ass. Aren't most of us here to retire early?
Oh, that's actually pretty cool!
The ass scratching is because I'm pretty sure we could work things out much better if I actually had plans and motivation to quit working right now and leave him with the majority of the burden (say, having kids, or starting my own business). If I just wanted to sit at home all day... the negotiation would be harder and probably wouldn't fit with our partnership.
I think it depends on what you're negotiating with her. I personally wouldn't think it fair. Say you spend 60k a year just so my math is easier (100k is so absurd I'm not going there). You pay for 40k and she pays for 20k. You're saving 160k a year, and she's saving 80k. This is fair, to a certain point, but I would still tweak it. If you paid 50/50, you'd be paying 30k each. Your savings would increase a little and hers would decrease in 12.5% (a lot!). And say you retire right now and start contributing only 10k. She'll need to pay 50k, right, and only be able to save 50k. So basically you'll delay her own retirement funds in several years, because you wanted to retire early *at her cost*. That's unfair to me, but it's up to you guys. Now if you managed to lower expenses so you pay 10k and she still pays like 20k, I'd be fine with that.
On the other hand, you're right: I never considered different rates of retirement for separate finances.
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Nope, this is my situation. With made up numbers lets say I make $200k and have a $500k stache, which throws off around $10k in dividends per year. My new wife makes $100k and has no stache.
While I'm working, I make 2x, so I pay 2/3 of the expenses. Then, since my stache covers half our expenses, I retire. Now I make 1/10 my wife. Does that mean she should pay 9/10 the expenses? If not, then there is a significant disconnect between pre-RE and post-RE scenarios.
To me, it would be fair for me to pay 50% pre RE (when I make 2x) and 50% post RE (when I make 1/10). But I'm open to reasonable discussion on that front.
Not sure the point of your talk about scratching your ass. Aren't most of us here to retire early?
Oh, that's actually pretty cool!
The ass scratching is because I'm pretty sure we could work things out much better if I actually had plans and motivation to quit working right now and leave him with the majority of the burden (say, having kids, or starting my own business). If I just wanted to sit at home all day... the negotiation would be harder and probably wouldn't fit with our partnership.
I think it depends on what you're negotiating with her. I personally wouldn't think it fair. Say you spend 60k a year just so my math is easier (100k is so absurd I'm not going there). You pay for 40k and she pays for 20k. You're saving 160k a year, and she's saving 80k. This is fair, to a certain point, but I would still tweak it. If you paid 50/50, you'd be paying 30k each. Your savings would increase a little and hers would decrease in 12.5% (a lot!). And say you retire right now and start contributing only 10k. She'll need to pay 50k, right, and only be able to save 50k. So basically you'll delay her own retirement funds in several years, because you wanted to retire early *at her cost*. That's unfair to me, but it's up to you guys. Now if you managed to lower expenses so you pay 10k and she still pays like 20k, I'd be fine with that.
On the other hand, you're right: I never considered different rates of retirement for separate finances.
Yeah, retiring early when you have separate finances and very disparate incomes is quite tricky and apt to not pass the "fairness" smell test. I can't say what feels right in all circumstances (and of course, people would have their own individual takes on this and it's only the couple's perspective that matters), but I'd venture to say that as a guideline consider perhaps consider retiring only if you can pay no less than 50% of the expenses. That way you don't retire at your partner's expense, per farmstache's point.
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Nope, this is my situation. With made up numbers lets say I make $200k and have a $500k stache, which throws off around $10k in dividends per year. My new wife makes $100k and has no stache.
While I'm working, I make 2x, so I pay 2/3 of the expenses. Then, since my stache covers half our expenses, I retire. Now I make 1/10 my wife. Does that mean she should pay 9/10 the expenses? If not, then there is a significant disconnect between pre-RE and post-RE scenarios.
To me, it would be fair for me to pay 50% pre RE (when I make 2x) and 50% post RE (when I make 1/10). But I'm open to reasonable discussion on that front.
Not sure the point of your talk about scratching your ass. Aren't most of us here to retire early?
Oh, that's actually pretty cool!
The ass scratching is because I'm pretty sure we could work things out much better if I actually had plans and motivation to quit working right now and leave him with the majority of the burden (say, having kids, or starting my own business). If I just wanted to sit at home all day... the negotiation would be harder and probably wouldn't fit with our partnership.
I think it depends on what you're negotiating with her. I personally wouldn't think it fair. Say you spend 60k a year just so my math is easier (100k is so absurd I'm not going there). You pay for 40k and she pays for 20k. You're saving 160k a year, and she's saving 80k. This is fair, to a certain point, but I would still tweak it. If you paid 50/50, you'd be paying 30k each. Your savings would increase a little and hers would decrease in 12.5% (a lot!). And say you retire right now and start contributing only 10k. She'll need to pay 50k, right, and only be able to save 50k. So basically you'll delay her own retirement funds in several years, because you wanted to retire early *at her cost*. That's unfair to me, but it's up to you guys. Now if you managed to lower expenses so you pay 10k and she still pays like 20k, I'd be fine with that.
On the other hand, you're right: I never considered different rates of retirement for separate finances.
Yeah, retiring early when you have separate finances and very disparate incomes is quite tricky and apt to not pass the "fairness" smell test. I can't say what feels right in all circumstances (and of course, people would have their own individual takes on this and it's only the couple's perspective that matters), but I'd venture to say that as a guideline consider perhaps consider retiring only if you can pay no less than 50% of the expenses. That way you don't retire at your partner's expense, per farmstache's point.
Uh, no shit? That's what I'm saying. I'll retire with the ability to pay 50% of expenses. But then it wouldn't be fair to split expenses by income, "per farmstache's point." If our expenses are $40k, I $20k income in retirement to pay my 50%. But wait, my spouse is not RE and earns $100k. So should she pay 83% expenses and I pay 17%? No, that's dumb.
But then flip it around. I'm not retired yet. I earn 200k and my spouse earns 100k. Now should I pay 66%? Many here would argue yes. But then it's not consistent with the feeling above, that I should pay at least 50% in retirement, but my spouse should not pay at least 50% pre-retirement.
... ok I edited this multiple times and I still have no idea what farmstache is talking about... my whole point is that it's not fair for me to contribute only 10%. But that's how the "split according to income" approach would work out once I retire and only make a small amount of interest and dividends. Unfair... better to go 50/50.
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... ok I edited this multiple times and I still have no idea what farmstache is talking about... my whole point is that it's not fair for me to contribute only 10%.
It's all good. We're all agreeing. While an income split may work for many in many instances, it's problematic in this situation.
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... ok I edited this multiple times and I still have no idea what farmstache is talking about... my whole point is that it's not fair for me to contribute only 10%.
It's all good. We're all agreeing. While an income split may work for many in many instances, it's problematic in this situation.
I hate it when that happens... make it so hard to have a nice argument like regular people.
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BullS#!T. Everyone need s to carry there fair share.
Hey now, I'm not calling for anybody to get a free ride there buddy. I'm pointing out a potential discrepancy on the value of the BF renting from the OP as opposed to renting from a stranger. From a purely financial perspective, if the BF were to rent a room in a house he'd get more square footage (private room, etc) at a market rate that would probably be paying less than 50%.
Many folks have suggested paying "market rate". But what is market rate for a live-in BF sharing a room and a bed with the owner? I don't think market rate means anything here. I don't know that 50% makes sense either given that finances are kept separate and OP gets the equity.
I suspect the answer is somewhere in the middle and depends on more than just financial considerations.
Tepster:
We haven't had the official talk yet, per se, but I did learn today he owes a bit of money from being in school and jobless
This strikes me as a potential big red flag. Your BF/roommate sounds like he could really use some facepunches. It's no wonder he wants to keep it "informal" (i.e. so he doesn't have to get his act together). I may be reading too much into your posts but I think you're right to be concerned about finances.
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Another way of thinking about market rate: if op.and bf rented an equivalent house and paid half each what we he pay. Why should he pay less than this (or more than this) just because she owns the house.
The exception to this scenario is if partner A is quite happy to rent the $200 a week house but partner b insists on the $300 a week house, then there could be an argument to split the rent $100/$200 so partner a is not disadvantaged by partner b's spendy ways.
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It's all good. We're all agreeing. While an income split may work for many in many instances, it's problematic in this situation.
I hate it when that happens... make it so hard to have a nice argument like regular people.
Hahaha yes.
Anyway, yes, we're agreeing. Basically every situation should be assessed individually. :)
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He prefers an informal and uncomplicated arrangement and thus wonders why this is stressing me out.
Hopefully this does not apply in your case, but this worried me a bit...only because when I moved in with my last partner, he required everything to be casual, informal, uncomplicated...with nothing in writing, and nothing discussed. After a year, he was still holding that position, I was about to start losing $5000/yr due to the intersection of tax and "family" laws, he was voluntarily -and without my knowledge- gifting his ex-wife with $20,000, and he refused to discuss a cohabitation agreement which would allow me to protect my assets in various scenarios. And I still had no idea what he earned, etc. That's when I moved out.
Almost two years later, I just finished reading the book Living With the Passive-Aggressive Man (Wetzler), which presented this kind of issue in some cases as part of a bigger pattern.
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Wow! This sucks...
Glad you left and are ok now.
I will keep this in mind if BF and I move in together.
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For those who split based on proportion of income, what counts as income? Gross, net, do you count income which is invested for retirement? I hope it's OK for me to ask as the thread has taken off and OP has not been back for a while.
Oh, yeah.
Well, here the retirement fund works a little differently (no options, no rolling, no loans from it, etc), and it's always a set percentage of gross depending on income level, so we just do net income. I got my paycheck, calculated 60%, transferred to our joint account. But as I said, we started this with pretty similar income ranges. If things changed (as they are right now) we would revisit.
Right now, we are joining 100% of our income minus $125 per month for personal expenses. Next year this might change again if I get a new stable job.
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When I warned him the conversation was coming, he made the comment: "I have a feeling you're going to ask for some crazy high amount since I lived here free all this time..."
"Crazy high amount" ? Manipulative. Hm.
Half of the mortgage + utilities. That's fair in EVERY sense, regardless of what you've already covered for him.
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Wow! This sucks...
Glad you left and are ok now.
I will keep this in mind if BF and I move in together.
Thanks, Melody. Yes, I'm so glad I moved to protect my son (not his child) and I, and we are doing well! In that scenario/process, I learned so much about family law, tax law, etc, that I simply hadn't had a clue about before moving in with him. Luckily, my accountant "woke me up" in time (and a family law lawyer said something to the effect of "run, run away!"). If my experience helps even a few other people check the laws, etc, before cohabitating, I'll be so happy!
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He prefers an informal and uncomplicated arrangement and thus wonders why this is stressing me out.
In my opinion, "informal" does not equal "uncomplicated". I think "informal" in this case can mean unstructured, undefined, and loose. That can actually end up being quite "complicated" in the end! Good luck with the talk!
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Wow! This sucks...
Glad you left and are ok now.
I will keep this in mind if BF and I move in together.
Thanks, Melody. Yes, I'm so glad I moved to protect my son (not his child) and I, and we are doing well! In that scenario/process, I learned so much about family law, tax law, etc, that I simply hadn't had a clue about before moving in with him. Luckily, my accountant "woke me up" in time (and a family law lawyer said something to the effect of "run, run away!"). If my experience helps even a few other people check the laws, etc, before cohabitating, I'll be so happy!
Just a note, but I think scrubbyfish lives in Canada, where there are laws regarding common law marriage after two years I think.
For those in the US, there are very few states that have common law marriage anymore, and some of those that do, impose dates on when it needed to occur by to be valid, or NH for example only allows it for inheritance purposes (so there's no divorce required to separate). In PA, for example, I recall it ended while I was living there, in 2006 I think, maybe 2007.
Also, in the US, it generally requires more than just cohabitation, but also holding yourself out as a married couple. (Now, of course, you can still get into issues such as whether you've created a landlord/tenant situation that creates obligations...this is just to reassure people regarding family law.)
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I know I'm making this even more off-topic, but where I live the common law marriage is regarded as a safety net, not as a liability. Some people don't even bother getting married, because legally everything is sorted out.
What's the advantage of not having common law marriage?
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I think 50/50 would be taking advantage of him because you would be gaining equity in the house. I would vote for a 33/66 or 40/60 split.
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I know I'm making this even more off-topic, but where I live the common law marriage is regarded as a safety net, not as a liability. Some people don't even bother getting married, because legally everything is sorted out.
What's the advantage of not having common law marriage?
You live in a totally different country so I can't speak to anything there.
My imperfect and general understanding is that common law marriages are actually a holdover from a time when there were not enough priests around to marry folks. They'd have traveling priests, who might swing by once a year (or less) to marry people. But in that time, kids are born, etc., and maybe someone would die resulting in inheritance issues etc. So folks entered into an unofficial form of marriage that was considered legally binding. They held themselves out as married (e.g. called themselves married and they acted like they were married), and they lived together.
Now, inability to find someone to marry you isn't a problem. So there no longer is a necessity for this form of marriage, as anyone can pretty much go and get married with a trip to get a license/town hall etc.
/end digression
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I'll be quick about it. My boyfriend needed a career change and quit his job to move to my state (just 90 miles away) and into my home. Therefore, he had been jobless and going to school for 9 months. I asked for no money during that time, not even groceries, which is why we never previously discussed shared finances. Last month he found a good-paying job ($20+/hr). Next month I will bring up the subject about his financial share.
What is fair to ask of him? The facts: He does not want equity in my house ($1500 monthly mortgage). Utilities are a sparse $450 per month. I make $85k+. He was previously paying $900 total rent/utilities. I live in NJ, very high cost of living. Apartments here do not go for under $1k/month.
Do I suggest a proportion of total monthly household costs (say, 33% and 66%?) His previous rent? Half his previous rent? Half of utilities?
Thank you in advance!
I believe that before you start having a conversation about what he will contribute from his financial share, you should first have a conversation as to how money is used in your relationship from this point forward, not just in rent or utilities, but in all facets of your life. Will you be the couple that pools all of your money together regardless of who makes more? That means that all costs of living whether it be utilities, mortgage, food, toilet paper, gas money, haircuts, clothes, entertainment, hobbies, vacation, etc. would come from that pool. Your money is his money and his money is your money. Or will you be the couple that pools only certain costs of living: mortgage, utilities, food, (insert your example here), and then what is left over is your own personal money. So in this case there would be three monies: your money, his money, and us money. This is a very important conversation to have especially since he's already been there more than 9 months. Is this relationship heading towards marriage? If you don't know then now is the time to discuss that because it will affect you financially and the decisions you make with your money.
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I know I'm making this even more off-topic, but where I live the common law marriage is regarded as a safety net, not as a liability. Some people don't even bother getting married, because legally everything is sorted out.
What's the advantage of not having common law marriage?
You live in a totally different country so I can't speak to anything there.
My imperfect and general understanding is that common law marriages are actually a holdover from a time when there were not enough priests around to marry folks. They'd have traveling priests, who might swing by once a year (or less) to marry people. But in that time, kids are born, etc., and maybe someone would die resulting in inheritance issues etc. So folks entered into an unofficial form of marriage that was considered legally binding. They held themselves out as married (e.g. called themselves married and they acted like they were married), and they lived together.
Now, inability to find someone to marry you isn't a problem. So there no longer is a necessity for this form of marriage, as anyone can pretty much go and get married with a trip to get a license/town hall etc.
/end digression
. I believe in Canada it started as a need to protect children in such a relationship, followed by rights to share medical and other benefits and inheritance. Eg homes went to a distant relative instead of common law partner.
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50/50 on utilities and food and market rate for 1 BR apt. When and if you get married, he'll get whatever equity you have so don't stress too much. Good luck getting him to start paying for something he has been getting for free. Get a rental contract written up now. Since he's lived there so long, even if he decided to pay nothing, you'd have to go through standard landlord / tenant eviction process.
Just remember. if you're dreading this conversation now, image what it will be like if you decide to get married and/or combine finances.
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Just a note, but I think scrubbyfish lives in Canada, where there are laws regarding common law marriage after two years I think.
Two years, one year, or a few months, depending on which set(s) of laws apply in one's situation, as well as which province they live in, etc.
Also, in the US, it generally requires more than just cohabitation, but also holding yourself out as a married couple.
The "presenting oneself as married" factors in somewhat here, too, but the various government departments can make a very loose case around this. My big, scary wake-up call was cemented for me when I read federal income tax court cases (details available online, free). It was mind-blowing what relationships the government was managing to reframe so as to reduce benefits or impose higher taxes. All totally well and good if people know what they're getting into when they become "roommates" or "landlord/tenant" or "friends living together".
Same sex, opposite sex, no sex, past sex, future sex...presenting selves as roommates, presenting selves as friends, presenting selves as tenant/landlord...sharing finances, not sharing finances...all these nuances have been addressed. The Canadian government, at least, is now also onto the "Living Alone Together" (LAT) approach. If the government believes two people are merged in even the loosest variation of "marriage-like", it can dictate financial rules accordingly. This can quite dramatically impact a person's finances.
In at least one case, two people lived in a big house with a bunch of others, eventually became a couple and moved into their own place, and declared themselves common law (reducing their tax benefits) upon a year of living together in a marriage-like relationship, as required by the relevant law. The government sued them for past tax liabilities on the presentation that they were really common law the years they had both been in a shared house -despite their protestations that they hadn't been a couple during those years.
Reading the cases made clear for me that the government is serious about increasing a tax liability for couples, and will get very, er, stretchy in interpreting two people's relationship in order to be able to do so. That is to say, it's not just how we see or present ourselves, or what relationship we negotiate privately with a partner. In some regions, there's a third character in the cohabitation/finances picture, whether we want there to be or not.
And then, all the same cautions apply if we're establishing a landlord/tenant relationship! We can become responsible for things we may not want to be responsible for, required to give a person oodles of notice if we want to take the space back to ourselves or be penalized heftily, etc.
A primary criteria for me now in living with someone is that they are willing to know the laws that apply in any potential scenario, rather than just wing it, assume laws don't apply or ignore them, etc. Just too risky in my case, and I think for at least a few others, too.
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For a boyfriend you should charge half of everything.
If you were married, I'd suggest percentage based on income.
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For a boyfriend you should charge half of everything.
If you were married, I'd suggest percentage based on income.
When you are married EVERYTHING is 50/50 except effort. That's 100%
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For a boyfriend you should charge half of everything.
If you were married, I'd suggest percentage based on income.
When you are married EVERYTHING is 50/50 except effort. That's 100%
No, when you're married, everything is 100/100. There is no "his" and "hers", it's all "ours".
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For a boyfriend you should charge half of everything.
If you were married, I'd suggest percentage based on income.
When you are married EVERYTHING is 50/50 except effort. That's 100%
No, when you're married, everything is 100/100. There is no "his" and "hers", it's all "ours".
False. My towel is clearly monogrammed "his"
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For a boyfriend you should charge half of everything.
If you were married, I'd suggest percentage based on income.
When you are married EVERYTHING is 50/50 except effort. That's 100%
While I agree that effort is 100% when married, for finances 50/50 doesn't always work out. I made 2x my DH salary. To expect him to pay half of everything is unfair.
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He did indicate that once he's on his feet and pays back the cash loan, he plans to help me pay off my student loans and household bills and "I can have all the money I need." That's fine and would amount to even more than 50% of bills (maybe his thank-you for a free nine months?), but I'd prefer something more structured than "all I need," so I will revisit in Aug. as planned. He prefers an informal and uncomplicated arrangement and thus wonders why this is stressing me out. We will split groceries this month; I bought the first round and if we run out, he can either starve or buy more.
Stand your ground, tepster! Your dude sounds like he's a total manbaby when it comes to money. He gets to pay off all his debt in full before he has to think about contributing to your household? Hah!
You're too generous. If you want to be generous, that's fine, but know that you're cutting him a ton of slack and you can reel it in at any time. I'm guessing that "all the money you need" is the sort of wishy-washy bullshit financial planning that makes him feel good but never quite pans out as expected--if he doesn't have a number in mind, how will he know how to allocate his money? Definitely keep him accountable.
Let us know how it goes!
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Hello again, and thanks for the advice. We talked about the financial situation moving forward and it went better than I expected. As you have surmised, communicating this after living together for so many months was weird and his communication skills are not excellent. But he actually brought up the subject by indicating he needed my bank account to transfer some money to me: 30% of an actual cash loan I lent him. Fine, and I didn't even need to say it, he admitted himself: "I shouldn't be eating out or buying anything if I owe you money." I replied: I'm glad we agree about that. (I can, however, understand the feeling of finally having money after being unemployed for nine months. That deserves a take-out or two.) I didn't voice this last thought :)
I presented to him a list of options moving forward. If you're interested in the options (compiled 100% from all your suggestions, thanks!) I listed them below. He chose a 60/40 household bill split, which I feel good about. He won't start contributing immediately; he is still on work probation for 1-2 more months, at which point his job is secure and he'll get a $5 raise. As someone in this thread mentioned, this was a big step for us both, so simply discussing and coming to an agreement has made me feel better and more appreciated as a partner: I can wait two more months for his money. I told him that I'm sure he feels I don't need the money since I can comfortable pay all of the bills by myself, but he interrupted and said of course you need the money, and it's only fair. I want to contribute. Plus, two years ago he was there for me financially in a big way when all my cash assets were frozen during a legal dispute.
Here are the options:
Option 1: Split all household bills 50/50 based on hourly income (this sucks, because he can work tons of overtime at my regular hourly rate, but I am salaried. Also the cheapest option)
Option 2: 50/50 split of household bills
Option 3: 60/40 split of household bills
Option 4: 1/2 utilities and market rate apt
Option 5: 1/2 utilities, house ins, property tax, and "price for a bed" (the non-equity option)
Option 6: His old rent and 1/2 our utilities (most expensive option)
I also showed him the average $ for all of those options to show the middle ground. The 60/40 split (option 3) is only $30 under the average.
Thanks again for all of the great discussions and suggestions. MMM rocks!
P.S. I had to break down and hire mowers. He is paying half.
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Hello again, and thanks for the advice. We talked about the financial situation moving forward and it went better than I expected. As you have surmised, communicating this after living together for so many months was weird and his communication skills are not excellent. But he actually brought up the subject by indicating he needed my bank account to transfer some money to me: 30% of an actual cash loan I lent him. Fine, and I didn't even need to say it, he admitted himself: "I shouldn't be eating out or buying anything if I owe you money." I replied: I'm glad we agree about that. (I can, however, understand the feeling of finally having money after being unemployed for nine months. That deserves a take-out or two.) I didn't voice this last thought :)
I presented to him a list of options moving forward. If you're interested in the options (compiled 100% from all your suggestions, thanks!) I listed them below. He chose a 60/40 household bill split, which I feel good about. He won't start contributing immediately; he is still on work probation for 1-2 more months, at which point his job is secure and he'll get a $5 raise. As someone in this thread mentioned, this was a big step for us both, so simply discussing and coming to an agreement has made me feel better and more appreciated as a partner: I can wait two more months for his money. I told him that I'm sure he feels I don't need the money since I can comfortable pay all of the bills by myself, but he interrupted and said of course you need the money, and it's only fair. I want to contribute. Plus, two years ago he was there for me financially in a big way when all my cash assets were frozen during a legal dispute.
Here are the options:
Option 1: Split all household bills 50/50 based on hourly income (this sucks, because he can work tons of overtime at my regular hourly rate, but I am salaried. Also the cheapest option)
Option 2: 50/50 split of household bills
Option 3: 60/40 split of household bills
Option 4: 1/2 utilities and market rate apt
Option 5: 1/2 utilities, house ins, property tax, and "price for a bed" (the non-equity option)
Option 6: His old rent and 1/2 our utilities (most expensive option)
I also showed him the average $ for all of those options to show the middle ground. The 60/40 split (option 3) is only $30 under the average.
Thanks again for all of the great discussions and suggestions. MMM rocks!
P.S. I had to break down and hire mowers. He is paying half.
Mow it yourself. Then we will find out what kind of man he is. :-D
Make sure you do it when he is home.
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IF you were married, your student debt would be his and vice versa, so go ahead -- add in all your debt repayment schedule to the mix of household expenses, then divy it up at 85k/125K 68% for you, and 40k/125K 32% for him. (assuming $20/hr is roughly 40k per year)
Oh yeah, look to see when you can claim the "married filing jointly" tax return and see if that helps you too!
Her debt should remain with her even if they did marry. The impact of income on student loan repayment includes his income only if they file jointly. Currently, the tax system seems to be set up to slightly reward married filing separately, which is what my wife and I do given her student loan debts. After inflation, it's cheaper for her to make the IBR minimum and save enough to make the lump sum payment on income tax to the IRS when they're "forgiven".
In terms of the expenses, I'm with everyone else. 50/50 or income based. The only exception I can think of is if he wants to step in a do some stuff himself. If he's handy, and can fix something that someone would charge Y for, then he should have Y deducted from his costs.
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Viper is right. You should charge market rate period. If you think market rate is too high, then be generous with the money in other areas--buy more groceries, purchase the bee and wine, etc..
You will be glad you are charging market rate if something ever goes wrong in the relationship--it lowers his switching cost to another apartment. You can always choose what to do with his money, and if you choose to share it, then that is yours (not his) choice.
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After they've had a nice open discussion and reached agreement, it seems rather wrong to me to turn around and whip the rug out from under him and say hey, never mind, I really want 50/50 even though I presented many options I claimed I'd be willing to do. I think they've reached an agreement that works for them, and we should all probably back out now and not tell her to back out on her promise and change their agreement. Hopefully(!) they've either agreed to discuss at a natural point (e.g. one year, or when job changes, etc.), or she feels comfortable bringing it up at those times later anyways.
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IF you were married, your student debt would be his and vice versa, so go ahead -- add in all your debt repayment schedule to the mix of household expenses, then divy it up at 85k/125K 68% for you, and 40k/125K 32% for him. (assuming $20/hr is roughly 40k per year)
Oh yeah, look to see when you can claim the "married filing jointly" tax return and see if that helps you too!
Her debt should remain with her even if they did marry. The impact of income on student loan repayment includes his income only if they file jointly. Currently, the tax system seems to be set up to slightly reward married filing separately, which is what my wife and I do given her student loan debts. After inflation, it's cheaper for her to make the IBR minimum and save enough to make the lump sum payment on income tax to the IRS when they're "forgiven".
I do realize that- logically and to protect oneself,- there is a place in modern messy relationship structures to consider legal prenups, separate accounts before official marriage, keeping debts separately accounted for, but truly, " logic" did not seem to be the underlying tone in OP posting.. So my response is highly focused on the fundamental relationship tennents about why someone would willingly choose to put herself in this scenario. I definitely read a tone of wanting a long committed relationship.
So...
Who cares what the legal answer is... If you are living as married, morally it does not really matter when you die at age 90 after a life together. Somewhere along the way, you have paid debts (or not ) together out of household monies. And did so making mutual decisions.
Now if I am wrong, and OP is living with bf and paying everything and not intending a long relationship.... Then maybe just enjoy the sugar daddy aspect and not ask for repayment?
Note "sugar daddy is not MMM and is worthy of financial censure from this board"
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Here are the options:
Option 1: Split all household bills 50/50 based on hourly income (this sucks, because he can work tons of overtime at my regular hourly rate, but I am salaried. Also the cheapest option)
Option 2: 50/50 split of household bills
Option 3: 60/40 split of household bills
Option 4: 1/2 utilities and market rate apt
Option 5: 1/2 utilities, house ins, property tax, and "price for a bed" (the non-equity option)
Option 6: His old rent and 1/2 our utilities (most expensive option)
I also showed him the average $ for all of those options to show the middle ground. The 60/40 split (option 3) is only $30 under the average.
Thanks again for all of the great discussions and suggestions. MMM rocks!
P.S. I had to break down and hire mowers. He is paying half.
I suppose the important thing is you two talked and have a solution that makes you both happy with one another. That's the only important thing.
Things like money shouldn't come in between a relationship. Keep it that way.
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I just wanted to say how grateful I am for this forum, including for this thread.
I've learned so much on this thread about how different couples/families treat finances together. I had learned all my "relationship money" lessons the very hard way, because I had absolutely no information or knowledge about how money is handled in healthy relationships. Every time we talk about this anywhere on the forum, I am listening in with great interest, intrigue, and care. I am fascinated by the positive experiences, awesome communication, and resulting trust that several couples have experienced/are experiencing. It's beautiful!
I love hearing how successful relationships deal with money, so thanks everyone who is in one of those for sharing that!
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I hope things have worked out now that the probation period has ended and the new expense agreement is starting.
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What really bothers me is that HE HAS NOT STEPPED UP and offered to pay his share now that he is employed. This should have been one of the first things that he said to you after, "Honey, I just got a job. Now, I can pull my weight around here." Sad that this is on you to bring up and feel uncomfortable about. I think you should suggest a number that YOU feel comfortable with and discuss it with him. You should set some financial boundaries. I am also a big fan of automatic debits in this situation. You don't want to be chasing him for money. It's demeaning and annoying.