Author Topic: How much do you pay for health insurance?  (Read 17046 times)

frugalnacho

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How much do you pay for health insurance?
« on: August 07, 2014, 07:50:53 PM »
I happened to see the paper work for the insurance bill my employers pay.  It is approximately $1,000/mo per employee (some were higher for a whole family, some were lower).  I don't know what the other employees get deducted out of their checks, but I get docked $54 per pay period (26 pay periods) for about $1400 per year.   I didn't realize my employer paid so much for our insurance.  $12,000/yr, plus my $1400/yr is an insane amount to pay for insurance.  That's more than any other item in budget by a long shot, and seems completely unaffordable if I had to pay the entire expense.  It seems like no one in our office is getting anywhere close to using the amount of services paid for, even at the ridiculous inflated prices of the health industry.

So how much do people pay when they don't have an employer funding almost the whole thing?  What do the mustachians do?

res

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2014, 08:07:13 PM »
Don't pay a cent, I live in a country that has universal first world health care that from what I can tell us as good as anywhere in the world.

beltim

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2014, 08:19:38 PM »
That's high but not crazy.  I recently found a list of every health insurance plan offered to government employees and the premiums.  For your viewing pleasure: http://www.opm.gov/healthcare-insurance/healthcare/plan-information/premiums/2014/nonpostal-ffs.pdf

There's a really cool site showing average premiums paid for ACA-compliant plans: https://www.ehealthinsurance.com/affordable-care-act/price-index

Dicey

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2014, 08:28:45 PM »
My husband's company provides coverage at no charge for the employee, the spouse and for dependents up to age 26. Our co-pays are really low and we pay zero for lab work of all types. He took a huge pay cut to take this job because it provides great medical coverage and a defined benefit retirement plan. I am grateful for his foresight every single day. Now, I know the coverage is not "free", but it is part of his compensation package. Unbelievable.

Frankies Girl

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2014, 08:37:16 PM »
My company subsidizes some of our insurance, but we still pay a moderate amount. For myself and husband, $175 each pay period, so $4550 a year. That's for mostly decent coverage (used to be much better, but they changed insurers to a lesser plan with more restrictions to cut costs after several employees had very rare cancers/death).

Beric01

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2014, 08:43:41 PM »
I actually make money on health insurance.

  • I don't pay a cent thanks to being on my parents' plan until age 26 (I have other younger siblings so it doesn't cost them a dime - thanks Obamacare)
  • Additionally, my company pays me about $2K/year to opt out of the employee health plan

So yeah, pretty satisfied with my healthcare costs.

Dicey

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2014, 12:52:11 AM »
I actually make money on health insurance. [M]y company pays me about $2K/year to opt out of the employee health plan.
Good one, Beric01! I hope you are socking that money away. Two years will fly by. Can you put the savings into an HSA/FSA/tax sheltered whatever for future use? Also, will your employer let you in without a hassle when you turn 26? Watch out for open enrollment bullshit dates. You may have to step in early to avoid missing a cutoff.

Beric01

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2014, 01:11:02 AM »
I actually make money on health insurance. [M]y company pays me about $2K/year to opt out of the employee health plan.
Good one, Beric01! I hope you are socking that money away. Two years will fly by. Can you put the savings into an HSA/FSA/tax sheltered whatever for future use? Also, will your employer let you in without a hassle when you turn 26? Watch out for open enrollment bullshit dates. You may have to step in early to avoid missing a cutoff.

Yeah, I'd like to put money into an HSA since it's pre-tax dollars, but you need to be enrolled in a qualified high-deductible plan to do that. So for now my savings all go into my 401K/Roth IRA/taxable investments.

An FSA is useless for me since my healthcare costs are basically zero, and the money doesn't roll over year after year.

Credaholic

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2014, 08:52:10 AM »
When I was a full time employee my company accidentally emailed my division a spreadsheet of our annual expenses/intake, and I was SHOCKED to see how much we each cost the company in health insurance costs. It was over $1000/month and I paid an additional $150 per month to have my son on my insurance. When I went back to being an independent contractor I joined the Obamacare ranks to the tune of $550 per month for a very similar gold level plan, again covering son and I.

Does anyone know why this is?? I would think that by insuring a boat load of people instead of just two, businesses would be able to negotiate discounts? And shouldn't there be incentives for companies to provide health insurance? (Maybe they are and it just wasn't being calculated into the gross expenses on the sheet I saw.)

Cheddar Stacker

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2014, 09:06:19 AM »
About $10k/year-family of 4.

Our company subsidizes a HUGE portion of health insurance for employees, but I'm not an employee. Employees pay about $1,000/year.

One thing that has always irked me about the way we do this: Everyone receives a different benefit because we use a static number rather than a percentage for the employee portion of the deductible. So $50/month paid by 25 y/o male employee means we pay a $125/month benefit to him. $50/month paid by 55 y/o female employee means we pay $450/month benefit to her.

Unfair, but it would be very hard to implement a change because some people's paychecks would be changed drastically.

beltim

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2014, 09:17:51 AM »
About $10k/year-family of 4.

Our company subsidizes a HUGE portion of health insurance for employees, but I'm not an employee. Employees pay about $1,000/year.

One thing that has always irked me about the way we do this: Everyone receives a different benefit because we use a static number rather than a percentage for the employee portion of the deductible. So $50/month paid by 25 y/o male employee means we pay a $125/month benefit to him. $50/month paid by 55 y/o female employee means we pay $450/month benefit to her.

Unfair, but it would be very hard to implement a change because some people's paychecks would be changed drastically.

Is that for a small company? I've never heard of companies paying different rates for different employees. Individuals, of course, do, so maybe small company plans are more like individual plans.

dandarc

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2014, 09:20:24 AM »
When I was a full time employee my company accidentally emailed my division a spreadsheet of our annual expenses/intake, and I was SHOCKED to see how much we each cost the company in health insurance costs. It was over $1000/month and I paid an additional $150 per month to have my son on my insurance. When I went back to being an independent contractor I joined the Obamacare ranks to the tune of $550 per month for a very similar gold level plan, again covering son and I.

Does anyone know why this is?? I would think that by insuring a boat load of people instead of just two, businesses would be able to negotiate discounts? And shouldn't there be incentives for companies to provide health insurance? (Maybe they are and it just wasn't being calculated into the gross expenses on the sheet I saw.)

You're paying more because a typical health insurance policy consists of:

1.  Prepayment for preventive services - nobody thinks that "free" annual checkup is actually free, right?

2.  A welfare-like redistribution system which has gotten bigger due to the requirement to cover pre-existing conditions.  Someone who didn't have insurance, was diagnosed with a chronic condition with expensive treatments now can get insurance and share that cost with you!  Employer provided health insurance has dealt with this for a long time - only recently has the private insurance market had to price this in, and it is expensive.  There's also the number of people factor - a family pays the same (at least at a lot of employers - not sure on the new individual plans) regardless of if there are 2 people or 20 people covered in the family.  There is also a bit of transfer of cost from young to old and men to women (in general - obviously individual cases can vary widely here) with the new set up - a bit of cost leveling that could be argued to make things more "fair".

3.  Adminstrative costs / profit for the insurance company.  Hard to say for sure how this component would change in another system, but it would certainly be different in a single payer or an every-person-for-himself, pay the doctor in cash scenario.

4.  Actual insurance - protecting yourself from some catastrophic health situation cropping up.  Individuals can plan and budget for a lot of preventive care, even minor emergencies.  It is probably best to transfer the risk of something really bad happening for most people though.

This is an over-simplification of  the situation, but "health insurance" in the US has long been much more than providing actual insurance.  Items 1-3 are the bulk of the cost of your typical insurance policy.  Up until fairly recently you could buy an individual plan that was closer to just providing for your insurable need, and they were much cheaper - high deductible health plans were much less expensive a few years ago.

Doesn't mean the new system is better or worse, or even if overall costs are higher or lower, but health insurance premiums are higher for a lot of people - of course the government subsidizes a lot of people here to make up for that aspect.  The subsidies can make the new premiums really cheap for early retirees who are smart about managing income.  Harder to control your income while working, because in the big picture while accumulating, it is usually best to just make as much money as you can.

[Edit - realized I didn't address the question asked]

So employer provided health insurance is very expensive - and has been for a long time - largely because of item 2 above - sharing costs.  Young, single, healthy workers pay much more than he/she should because they are sharing costs with large families, and older, sicker workers.  The company also has to account for bringing someone new in who greatly increases the healthcare costs for the company.  So a big company probably actually has negotiated the best deal they can, to provide the level of coverage they feel necessary to their employees, but because they generally will charge each employee the same, regardless of the actual benefit provided.

I suspect your premium is lower on the private market than through the employer (assuming no subsidy here) because on the private market, they can price-discriminate to an extent based on certain factors like age, and possibly even number of people covered.  The new law reduces these factors somewhat, but I don't think it has fully eliminated them.  So the individual plan you have can factor in you and your son's age, and the fact that there's only 2 of you, into the price to an extent.  Another issue may be that at least some current "Obamacare" policies are priced incorrectly - these are pretty new, so insurers are still figuring out what the premiums should be to appropriately cover the costs.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 09:48:32 AM by dandarc »

frugalnacho

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2014, 09:31:37 AM »


1.  Prepayment for preventive services - nobody thinks that "free" annual checkup is actually free, right?


No, but who uses $1000/mo worth of "free" check ups?  Also wouldn't it be in the insurance companies best financial interest to check up on your health and prevent something expensive and catastrophic?

Those numbers still seem ridiculous.  I can't imagine ever using that amount of services.  If all that money was invested and I just paid out of pocket (reasonable prices for services - not inflated prices that they charge) I can't imagine ever running out of money for health care, even in the event of cancer.   Our system seems so broken.

beltim

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2014, 09:40:55 AM »
If you don't realize how much health care costs, this is a good thing it means you've either been lucky or had good insurance.  Per person health care costs in the US are about $9,000 per year.  That makes a $12,000 per year plan expensive for one person, but a pretty good deal for families, especially families with kids.

JustTrying

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2014, 09:41:50 AM »
I pay $200/month to have my husband on my plan. If the insurance was only for me, it would be free. I was looking at the plans yesterday, and it would make sense for us to change to a high deductible plan (we're both super healthy), except that I thought we might be trying to get pregnant this year, and when it comes to birth costs, my current insurance plan will save us money. I've also thought about looking into just putting hubs onto a high deductible plan, but then we'd have to go outside of my employer, so... I'll have a few things to look into during open season!

Mrs. PoP

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2014, 09:47:46 AM »
We are each covered separately through our employers plans, which cost us around $60/month off each of our paychecks.  (So ~$720 per person, or $1440/year for both.  No dependents.) 

Mine is a decent PPO and my employer pays 90%, Mr PoP's is an HDHP and I'm not sure exactly what percent his employer covers for the plan we chose.  He also gets ~$750 put into an HSA each year by his employer, so in a sense, his net cost for this HD insurance is zero. 

Cheddar Stacker

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2014, 09:56:32 AM »
About $10k/year-family of 4.

Our company subsidizes a HUGE portion of health insurance for employees, but I'm not an employee. Employees pay about $1,000/year.

One thing that has always irked me about the way we do this: Everyone receives a different benefit because we use a static number rather than a percentage for the employee portion of the deductible. So $50/month paid by 25 y/o male employee means we pay a $125/month benefit to him. $50/month paid by 55 y/o female employee means we pay $450/month benefit to her.

Unfair, but it would be very hard to implement a change because some people's paychecks would be changed drastically.

Is that for a small company? I've never heard of companies paying different rates for different employees. Individuals, of course, do, so maybe small company plans are more like individual plans.

Yep. 20 ish people.

For clarity, the company charges employees the same amount each paycheck no matter what their premium is. The total premiums paid to the insurance provider for each employee are different based on age, gender, etc.

dandarc

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2014, 09:57:48 AM »


1.  Prepayment for preventive services - nobody thinks that "free" annual checkup is actually free, right?


No, but who uses $1000/mo worth of "free" check ups?  Also wouldn't it be in the insurance companies best financial interest to check up on your health and prevent something expensive and catastrophic?

Those numbers still seem ridiculous.  I can't imagine ever using that amount of services.  If all that money was invested and I just paid out of pocket (reasonable prices for services - not inflated prices that they charge) I can't imagine ever running out of money for health care, even in the event of cancer.   Our system seems so broken.

I suppose limiting that to "preventive" care was a bad choice of words - more like "predictable care".  And this goes hand-in-hand with item 2 on my list - you're not just pre-paying for your predictable services, but other people who may use much more than you do.  You might figure 1 checkup, and 3-6 office visits per year per person for minor illnesses or something like that.  Point is the individual can pretty easily predict and pay for these costs.  Though really, the cost-sharing (item 2 in my list) is the biggest factor in premiums.

In another thread, I mentioned this, but I think a better health insurance product would allow people to choose a deductible, not cover anything at all until the deductible is met, then pick up 100% after that.  Unfortunately, nothing like this is available these days, although the Bronze plans are closer to this than the gold ones - even the bronze plans are much further than high deductible plans used to be from this, even just a few years ago.

beltim

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2014, 10:05:37 AM »
Is that for a small company? I've never heard of companies paying different rates for different employees. Individuals, of course, do, so maybe small company plans are more like individual plans.

Yep. 20 ish people.

For clarity, the company charges employees the same amount each paycheck no matter what their premium is. The total premiums paid to the insurance provider for each employee are different based on age, gender, etc.

Interesting.  Yet another quirk of the healthcare system!

dandarc

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2014, 10:07:42 AM »
In another thread, I mentioned this, but I think a better health insurance product would allow people to choose a deductible, not cover anything at all until the deductible is met, then pick up 100% after that.  Unfortunately, nothing like this is available these days, although the Bronze plans are closer to this than the gold ones - even the bronze plans are much further than high deductible plans used to be from this, even just a few years ago.

Poking a hole in this idea myself - particularly with the new requirements to cover pre-existing conditions, you'd have to somehow stop people from moving the deductible down or there would be a huge adverse selection problem at the low deductible end.  This would probably be unpalatable to many.

beltim

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2014, 10:11:31 AM »
In another thread, I mentioned this, but I think a better health insurance product would allow people to choose a deductible, not cover anything at all until the deductible is met, then pick up 100% after that.  Unfortunately, nothing like this is available these days, although the Bronze plans are closer to this than the gold ones - even the bronze plans are much further than high deductible plans used to be from this, even just a few years ago.

Poking a hole in this idea myself - particularly with the new requirements to cover pre-existing conditions, you'd have to somehow stop people from moving the deductible down or there would be a huge adverse selection problem at the low deductible end.  This would probably be unpalatable to many.

But with the requirement that everyone has to have insurance, wouldn't companies be able to re-price those policies accordingly if that becomes an issue?

dandarc

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2014, 10:19:33 AM »
Is that for a small company? I've never heard of companies paying different rates for different employees. Individuals, of course, do, so maybe small company plans are more like individual plans.

Yep. 20 ish people.

For clarity, the company charges employees the same amount each paycheck no matter what their premium is. The total premiums paid to the insurance provider for each employee are different based on age, gender, etc.

Interesting.  Yet another quirk of the healthcare system!
Yes - a small company is much closer to an individual when it comes to health insurance than to a large company.  Interesting that it really does apparently boil down to buying individual policies though. 

A lot of really big organizations self-insure and just pay an insurance company to handle the administrative burden - the risk is much too great for most small companies to do that, that risk must be transferred.  The big organization is going to be paying a lot either way, and with thousands and thousands of people covered, the costs will not vary all that much from year to year, so it is more efficient to self insure, rather than try and transfer the risk elsewhere and pay the associated price for doing that - it is more efficient to do it that way.  In many small companies, if one employee has something big come up, that cost could easily bankrupt the whole firm, so the cost to transfer that risk is probably worth it.

dandarc

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2014, 10:39:14 AM »
In another thread, I mentioned this, but I think a better health insurance product would allow people to choose a deductible, not cover anything at all until the deductible is met, then pick up 100% after that.  Unfortunately, nothing like this is available these days, although the Bronze plans are closer to this than the gold ones - even the bronze plans are much further than high deductible plans used to be from this, even just a few years ago.

Poking a hole in this idea myself - particularly with the new requirements to cover pre-existing conditions, you'd have to somehow stop people from moving the deductible down or there would be a huge adverse selection problem at the low deductible end.  This would probably be unpalatable to many.

But with the requirement that everyone has to have insurance, wouldn't companies be able to re-price those policies accordingly if that becomes an issue?

Yes, but the low-deductible option might not even be feasible, even with that requirement.  Even if everyone was required to have insurance, the basic strategy would be:

1.  Buy the largest deductible you think you can handle when healthy - this should be pretty cheap, and you're healthy so odds are that most of the deductible won't come into play.

2.  If you come down with something that causes your out-of-pocket to routinely exceed the deductible, move to a lower deductible, unless the increased premium cost more than offsets the cost of the deductible.

The premiums on a low-deductible plan would have to be extremely high, or over time the low-deductible plans would wind up being populated almost entirely by the highest cost individuals, while low cost individuals would opt for higher-deductible plans.  Indeed, a lot of young, healthy people would be forced into the higher-deductible plans simply because the premiums would have to be so high on a low deductible plan, that they simply couldn't afford it (income is often low when you're young).

Maybe a rule like "you can only move down in deductible only after waiting X years" would allow some flexibility, while preventing the adverse selection problem.  Hard to say.  Really is a complex problem, designing an insurance system.

theonethatgotaway

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2014, 10:43:22 AM »
Here's our list from H work (all employee+spouse+dependant)
Marketing Dallas- 850 per month
Marketing NYC -450 per month, no copay free everything -miss this plan!!)
Marketing NYC-900 per month
Marketing Austin-900 per month
Marketing Austin-450 per month
London- 150 pounds per month (yes you still pay NHS) on 27,000 pound wage
London-500 pounds per month on 80,000 pound wage.

(UK NHS contributions are calculated based on percentage of income total)

Each employer tthat offered 450ish paid about 1000 extra to insurance per month.

These rates are because we have the most expensive and in efficient system in the world. Why does every hospital need xxxxxx equipment....

beltim

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2014, 10:54:33 AM »
I don't think this would be a problem.  Essentially you're suggesting the Swiss health care system (private insurance, everyone has to buy, basically the only choices a consumer has are the company they buy from and the deductible), and Switzerland has one of the best health care systems in the world.  They don't seem to have this problem with adverse selection, and they've been doing it for awhile.

frugalnacho

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2014, 10:57:09 AM »
In another thread, I mentioned this, but I think a better health insurance product would allow people to choose a deductible, not cover anything at all until the deductible is met, then pick up 100% after that.  Unfortunately, nothing like this is available these days, although the Bronze plans are closer to this than the gold ones - even the bronze plans are much further than high deductible plans used to be from this, even just a few years ago.

Poking a hole in this idea myself - particularly with the new requirements to cover pre-existing conditions, you'd have to somehow stop people from moving the deductible down or there would be a huge adverse selection problem at the low deductible end.  This would probably be unpalatable to many.

But with the requirement that everyone has to have insurance, wouldn't companies be able to re-price those policies accordingly if that becomes an issue?

But it takes risk completely out of the equation.  Why would a healthy person ever choose to pay a lot into the system to have a low deductible if they could simply switch to that option once it becomes beneficial to them?

enigmaT120

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2014, 10:58:36 AM »
I pay $3250/year for Kaiser Permanante for my wife and I (and our 10 non-existent children) and my employer pays the other 9750 per year. 


dandarc

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2014, 10:59:57 AM »
Sorry for hijacking this thread - back to the topic at hand:

My wife and I currently pay $180 / month through her employer for health insurance - this is largely subsidized by the employer - COBRA cost is more than 14K per year.  It is very good insurance, but I doubt we would choose it if we were paying the full cost. 

My individual, high-deductible policy, peaked at $91 / month a couple years ago (this was before we were married).  Lowest price for an individual policy that is at all similar to that one now runs $233 / month, un-subsidized.  Prices would have had to have increased by 60% per year to get to this price, and even if that actually happened, I'd still be ahead because this 233 / mo policy has a substantially higher deductible than I had then.  Undoubtedly, ACA is a worse deal for me as an individual, at least until we retire and reduce our income.

Roots&Wings

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2014, 11:03:19 AM »
My company pays $5820/yr for my health insurance.  I pay $0, no copays, and all costs are covered by the company (except some dental stuff because I see an out of network dentist).  If I ever wanted to do anything non-traditional (i.e. see a chiropractor, acupuncture, vitamin supplements, etc) I have to cover the cost though.  For FI planning purposes, I'm budgeting a bit more than what my employer currently pays for my health care, although it could vary significantly once I'm off my employer's health plan.

pdxvandal

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2014, 11:16:29 AM »
I worked for a large corporation for six years and they paid 100% for me, wife and, eventually, child. I was lucky.

Then I was laid off in March. My new startup company pays me $500 per month (not taxable income) for health care, which is pretty nice. Thus, I am able to choose a high deductible HSA bronze plan through ACA, which costs me $168 per month. I'm 39 ... hopefully it doesn't go up too much more when I hit 40 (or there's more competition next year, thus stabilizing prices).

beltim

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2014, 11:20:46 AM »
In another thread, I mentioned this, but I think a better health insurance product would allow people to choose a deductible, not cover anything at all until the deductible is met, then pick up 100% after that.  Unfortunately, nothing like this is available these days, although the Bronze plans are closer to this than the gold ones - even the bronze plans are much further than high deductible plans used to be from this, even just a few years ago.

Poking a hole in this idea myself - particularly with the new requirements to cover pre-existing conditions, you'd have to somehow stop people from moving the deductible down or there would be a huge adverse selection problem at the low deductible end.  This would probably be unpalatable to many.

But with the requirement that everyone has to have insurance, wouldn't companies be able to re-price those policies accordingly if that becomes an issue?

But it takes risk completely out of the equation.  Why would a healthy person ever choose to pay a lot into the system to have a low deductible if they could simply switch to that option once it becomes beneficial to them?

Dunno.  But it works in Switzerland.

dude

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2014, 11:26:55 AM »
$138.32/pay period x 26, so $3596.32/year.  Employer pays $428.27/pay period, so $11,135.02.  That's $14,731.34 annually.  Damn, that's almost a max 401k contribution . . .

Co-pays are generally $35/visit.  Prescriptions are $10 for generics, $45 for a lot of others.

I guess this is one of the "Cadillac plans" Congress has talked about taxing.  It doesn't feel like an overly great plan, but I suppose I take it for granted.  Oh, and fuck Congress.

dandarc

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2014, 11:55:36 AM »
I don't think this would be a problem.  Essentially you're suggesting the Swiss health care system (private insurance, everyone has to buy, basically the only choices a consumer has are the company they buy from and the deductible), and Switzerland has one of the best health care systems in the world.  They don't seem to have this problem with adverse selection, and they've been doing it for awhile.

This is interesting - looked into this a bit to figure out how it was done.  Deductibles range from 300 to 2500 francs, which actually is a pretty narrow range of options.  There is a 10% copay, but that is capped at 700 fancs.  So the extreme ends of the decision have annual maximum out of poket of 1000 francs to 3200 francs - they have dealt with the adverse selection problem by narrowing the range of options to the point that it is almost inconsequential.  And the premium difference is about 100 francs (got some quotes for someone like me - could be different for other people) per month from the low-end to the high-end - that right there is 1200 francs / year, so we're only talking about an actual range of cost differences of at most 1000 francs / year - compare to the US where out of pocket costs can range from close to 0 to ten's of thousands of dollars, even under the new law.  This is only for the basic required coverage - individuals can buy supplemental coverage as well over there.

Basically, they have solved this problem by legislating the risk to the individual out of the available options.  That might be the solution here too, but I doubt we see a change this drastic in the US any time soon.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 12:00:31 PM by dandarc »

Ralphus27

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2014, 12:11:49 PM »
I pay about $60 a month for what I consider to be pretty nice coverage.  We also have an employee clinic that can write prescriptions and doesn't charge a copay.  It is an awesome option for relatively minor illnesses/injuries.

nawhite

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2014, 12:19:33 PM »
My wife is on the open market (her employer options don't meet her medication needs) and she pays $231/month for a Gold Plan through Kaiser in Colorado.

For me, when I had an open market plan 6 months ago, it was about $180/month for a Bronze level plan for me. Now my employer has a great HSA eligible High Deductible plan so I pay $41/month with a $3000 deducible. I'm sure they subsidize me but they don't subsidize spouses or dependents so my wife stays in the open market.

Cheddar Stacker

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2014, 12:39:26 PM »
$138.32/pay period x 26, so $3596.32/year.  Employer pays $428.27/pay period, so $11,135.02.  That's $14,731.34 annually.  Damn, that's almost a max 401k contribution . . .

Co-pays are generally $35/visit.  Prescriptions are $10 for generics, $45 for a lot of others.

I guess this is one of the "Cadillac plans" Congress has talked about taxing.  It doesn't feel like an overly great plan, but I suppose I take it for granted.  Oh, and fuck Congress.

Ha!

In fairness to Congress (not that they're fair) and since you equated this to a 401k max, the big difference is the way the tax laws are written the 401k is supposed to be taxed at least once (as a distribution from the account). Except in rare circumstances, health insurance premiums are exempt from tax. They are deductible for your company, and not taxable to you. I can see why they want to go after it.

iris lily

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2014, 12:41:49 PM »
OP, does that $14,731 cover only you? This is a private company you work for, right?

Where I work the total cost per adult employee is $6,500 annually. Of this cost I pay $1,200.

frugalnacho

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2014, 01:39:03 PM »
OP, does that $14,731 cover only you? This is a private company you work for, right?

Where I work the total cost per adult employee is $6,500 annually. Of this cost I pay $1,200.

(The $14,731 figure was posted by dude not OP - although they are practically the same figure)

It's me and my wife.

GGNoob

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2014, 01:49:11 PM »
I pay $15 a month for myself. My employer pays $568 a month according to my pay stub. My wife pays $101 a month for herself and I don't know what her employer pays. My wife has a HDHP that allows us to contribute to an HSA. It's too expensive for my wife to be on my insurance, as it'd be cheaper to pay premiums for her employer and max out her deductible.

Cassie

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2014, 03:06:53 PM »
WE retired from public employers and together pay $829.00/month for 2 people.  The state still pays an additional total of 400/month for the coverage.  When you work you pay about half what you do once you retire.

pipercat

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2014, 03:11:51 PM »
For my family of four, we pay $899 per month, and my employer pays $615 per month. I work for a public school district, and they send us a statement each year that details how much the district pays towards our insurance, retirement, etc.

iris lily

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2014, 03:49:27 PM »
OP, does that $14,731 cover only you? This is a private company you work for, right?

Where I work the total cost per adult employee is $6,500 annually. Of this cost I pay $1,200.

(The $14,731 figure was posted by dude not OP - although they are practically the same figure)

It's me and my wife.

ok, yours was the $13,400 figure total cost.

These are all falling into place as being similar, around $6,000 - $7,300 per person in company negotiated health insurance fees. Of course where the rubber meets the road is: what do these policies cover?

Mine at $6,500 per person has no dental or vision coverage. We are low consumers of both, so that is fine with me. We spend around $1,500 annually on dental/vision costs out of our pocket.


taekvideo

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2014, 04:03:43 PM »
Nothing ^^
Have another year and a half before I turn 26 and have to get off my parent's plan and have to get my own...
Hopefully obamacare is still around at that time so it won't cost me TOO much......

Dicey

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2014, 10:42:41 PM »
My husband's company provides coverage at no charge for the employee, the spouse and for dependents up to age 26. Our co-pays are really low and we pay zero for lab work of all types. He took a huge pay cut to take this job because it provides great medical coverage and a defined benefit retirement plan. I am grateful for his foresight every single day. Now, I know the coverage is not "free", but it is part of his compensation package. Unbelievable.

Wow! This afternoon I was working on some filing and found a document from my husband's employer. The numbers are pretty shocking. This coverage is for DH and me plus his 22 y.o. son.

Drumroll, please...

Medical Care: 20,329
Dental Care:    2,539
Vision Care:        291
Total:             23,159

FWIW: This is for HMO coverage (Kaiser).
                                 

iris lily

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2014, 10:54:28 PM »
My husband's company provides coverage at no charge for the employee, the spouse and for dependents up to age 26. Our co-pays are really low and we pay zero for lab work of all types. He took a huge pay cut to take this job because it provides great medical coverage and a defined benefit retirement plan. I am grateful for his foresight every single day. Now, I know the coverage is not "free", but it is part of his compensation package. Unbelievable.

Wow! This afternoon I was working on some filing and found a document from my husband's employer. The numbers are pretty shocking. This coverage is for DH and me plus his 22 y.o. son.

Drumroll, please...

Medical Care: 20,329
Dental Care:    2,539
Vision Care:        291
Total:             23,159

FWIW: This is for HMO coverage (Kaiser).
                                 

That's family coverage, so I would bet that coverage for just you and your husband falls into a range closer to $15,000 - $16,000 range we've seen in this thread. Well, likely yours is higher.

It is a very wise thing for companies to tell their employees how much the health insurance bill is per employee. Mine does.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 08:03:16 AM by iris lily »

expatartist

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Re: How much do you pay for health insurance?
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2014, 11:39:52 PM »
My job pays for worldwide health and dental care (emergency care only in the USA & Canada). Co-pays at China's best hospitals are 10% for routine care to inpatient/outpatient services. Dental coverage up to US$2,000/year from check-ups to major work like crowns, etc. The organization does this to attract international employees who otherwise would balk at China's serious effects on your health.

To cover my husband would cost us around US$3500/year (but he opts out - has basic domestic insurance from his local university), and I believe it costs my org about US$4000/year to cover me.