Author Topic: How many of you have relationship issues?  (Read 11175 times)

G-String

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #100 on: February 23, 2024, 01:20:39 PM »

To be clear, the kids did not cry.  They were upset and mad at their mom for not inviting me.  But no crying.  And yea...I just don't have the strength to end it right now.  Usually my relationships drag on way longer than they should until either there is a big blow up, or she breaks up with me. Breaking up is just not something I am good at unfortunately.

This is something you could work on.
Yes obviously it is a weakness of mine.

the_hobbitish

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #101 on: February 23, 2024, 01:22:29 PM »
Most people are not good at break ups. Don't let it being what you've always done be an excuse not to try to do it better this time. Its mean to let it drag on. Especially for the kids.

Metalcat

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #102 on: February 23, 2024, 01:24:42 PM »

To be clear, the kids did not cry.  They were upset and mad at their mom for not inviting me.  But no crying.  And yea...I just don't have the strength to end it right now.  Usually my relationships drag on way longer than they should until either there is a big blow up, or she breaks up with me. Breaking up is just not something I am good at unfortunately.

This is something you could work on.
Yes obviously it is a weakness of mine.

My point is that there are things you can proactively do to work on this.

G-String

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #103 on: February 23, 2024, 01:27:30 PM »

To be clear, the kids did not cry.  They were upset and mad at their mom for not inviting me.  But no crying.  And yea...I just don't have the strength to end it right now.  Usually my relationships drag on way longer than they should until either there is a big blow up, or she breaks up with me. Breaking up is just not something I am good at unfortunately.

This is something you could work on.
Yes obviously it is a weakness of mine.

My point is that there are things you can proactively do to work on this.
How does someone proactively work on being good at breaking up?  It is much easier said than done, especially when you have become close to someone.

Captain FIRE

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #104 on: February 23, 2024, 01:35:49 PM »
You don’t need her buy-in to break up. You don’t need a conversation to break up. (It is often kinder to do so but this may be one of those exceptions.) All you need to do is to send an email or text (I’d avoid a Sex in City post it note…) saying that you want to break up. Done. Want a little more? “After thinking hard, I realized that we need to break up. I wish you all the best.” Don’t give a reason or she’ll nitpick it and you’ll backslide.

Kids crying or “simply” being upset is missing the point btw, focusing on semantics over substance/spirit.

Metalcat

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #105 on: February 23, 2024, 01:36:25 PM »

To be clear, the kids did not cry.  They were upset and mad at their mom for not inviting me.  But no crying.  And yea...I just don't have the strength to end it right now.  Usually my relationships drag on way longer than they should until either there is a big blow up, or she breaks up with me. Breaking up is just not something I am good at unfortunately.

This is something you could work on.
Yes obviously it is a weakness of mine.

My point is that there are things you can proactively do to work on this.
How does someone proactively work on being good at breaking up?  It is much easier said than done, especially when you have become close to someone.

Yeah, personal development and tackling unhealthy behaviours is challenging. I never said it wasn't, but I did say you could choose to work on it.

The most direct way is through really good therapy, which multiple folks have already recommended.

the_hobbitish

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #106 on: February 23, 2024, 02:27:28 PM »
Man I wish I had applied that to the job I just tried to leave. I felt like I owed an explanation when I'm reality it just made everyone more uncomfortable and the whole process harder.

Kris

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #107 on: February 23, 2024, 02:44:36 PM »
More issues with my GF last night...sigh. Her little kids got upset with her cuz she didn't invite me to her sons b-day today.  I'm upset she didn't invite me too.  I do work today, but she claims she did not realize I'd want to book a day of work to go, even though she knows I have lots of vacations days I need to use.  This all happed over speaker phone last night when I was talking to her and her kids. Within a minute of this, my GF gets nauseous, sick to her stomach and starts vomiting on the toilet. Is this a normal reaction?  Was she overwhelmed that everyone was upset with her at once?

I'm going to suggest you move this convo over to your other thread about this, rather than continuing it here.  Might make more sense there.
~~~~

It makes sense the kids would be upset.  You've become a father figure to them and you weren't invited to a family event.  I know you've been claiming that some of the kids (the little ones) just know you as "mom's friend".  I can assure you that kids are upset when mom doesn't invite some rando adult friend to their party.  They get upset when mom doesn't invite someone who they see as immediate family--like a father--to their party.

Also, the fact that your girlfriend was so upset over a fight that she vommited and your reaction is to ask if it is normal, is, well... not normal.  No, she's not okay.  None of this is okay.  And every minute you continue it, the damage get deeper.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  Tht's not a judgement.  It's a lot; I wouldn't be equipped to deal with it either.  You've got the 4 kids factor and the single mom factor and the messy Ex factor and the history of abuse factor and the very clear evidence of ongoing trauma responses and trauma guided behavior factor, and the terrified of even the slightest disagreement factor and the resentment from what you feel were lies at the beginnign factor, and the not enough tiem for you factor.  And probably more.  That's a lot of factors.

You are not equipped to do all this.  This is not a healthy relationship.  It's not okay.
It was not a fight.  It was a calm conversation over the phone.  She she says she threw up because her little girl had a stomach bug earlier this week.  I am simply wondering if it is related to the phone conversation.

Yes, it is entirely possible it is related.  And while you may not categorize it as a "fight", you had a conversation where you were "upset" and the kids were "upset", and it was enough to make you at least wonder if the vomiting was related, so if it wasn't a "fight", it certainly wasn't rainbow and kittens. You had some reason to question whether the vomiting was a result of the conversation.  Even if it was calm, it clearly wasn't perfectly agreeable. For a recently-abused woman still dealing with her abusive Ex and the resulting deep trauma, it may not take much to drive that level of reaction.  No, it's not "normal" for an average, healthy adult.  And that's kinda the point. 

So taking out the word "fight", I repeat the rest of my post.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  You are almost certainly actively damaging this woman, and her kids.  That becomes more clear every time you post about this fiasco of a relationship.
While I agree with you that I may not be equipped to deal with all of these issues, I think it is harsh to say I am damaging her and her kids.  She has told me many times how thankful she is for my support and for helping her and her kids through this.  I listen and talk with her every day multiple times about her custody issues and other life challenges she deals with as a single mom.  And trust me she is no angel either, I deal with her toxic behaviors on a regular basis.

Honestly, the level of contempt and disrespect you show for her in these conversations just makes me think you should break up with her even more. Wow.

GuitarStv

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #108 on: February 23, 2024, 02:54:49 PM »
More issues with my GF last night...sigh. Her little kids got upset with her cuz she didn't invite me to her sons b-day today.  I'm upset she didn't invite me too.  I do work today, but she claims she did not realize I'd want to book a day of work to go, even though she knows I have lots of vacations days I need to use.  This all happed over speaker phone last night when I was talking to her and her kids. Within a minute of this, my GF gets nauseous, sick to her stomach and starts vomiting on the toilet. Is this a normal reaction?  Was she overwhelmed that everyone was upset with her at once?

I'm going to suggest you move this convo over to your other thread about this, rather than continuing it here.  Might make more sense there.
~~~~

It makes sense the kids would be upset.  You've become a father figure to them and you weren't invited to a family event.  I know you've been claiming that some of the kids (the little ones) just know you as "mom's friend".  I can assure you that kids are upset when mom doesn't invite some rando adult friend to their party.  They get upset when mom doesn't invite someone who they see as immediate family--like a father--to their party.

Also, the fact that your girlfriend was so upset over a fight that she vommited and your reaction is to ask if it is normal, is, well... not normal.  No, she's not okay.  None of this is okay.  And every minute you continue it, the damage get deeper.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  Tht's not a judgement.  It's a lot; I wouldn't be equipped to deal with it either.  You've got the 4 kids factor and the single mom factor and the messy Ex factor and the history of abuse factor and the very clear evidence of ongoing trauma responses and trauma guided behavior factor, and the terrified of even the slightest disagreement factor and the resentment from what you feel were lies at the beginnign factor, and the not enough tiem for you factor.  And probably more.  That's a lot of factors.

You are not equipped to do all this.  This is not a healthy relationship.  It's not okay.
It was not a fight.  It was a calm conversation over the phone.  She she says she threw up because her little girl had a stomach bug earlier this week.  I am simply wondering if it is related to the phone conversation.

Yes, it is entirely possible it is related.  And while you may not categorize it as a "fight", you had a conversation where you were "upset" and the kids were "upset", and it was enough to make you at least wonder if the vomiting was related, so if it wasn't a "fight", it certainly wasn't rainbow and kittens. You had some reason to question whether the vomiting was a result of the conversation.  Even if it was calm, it clearly wasn't perfectly agreeable. For a recently-abused woman still dealing with her abusive Ex and the resulting deep trauma, it may not take much to drive that level of reaction.  No, it's not "normal" for an average, healthy adult.  And that's kinda the point. 

So taking out the word "fight", I repeat the rest of my post.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  You are almost certainly actively damaging this woman, and her kids.  That becomes more clear every time you post about this fiasco of a relationship.
While I agree with you that I may not be equipped to deal with all of these issues, I think it is harsh to say I am damaging her and her kids.  She has told me many times how thankful she is for my support and for helping her and her kids through this.  I listen and talk with her every day multiple times about her custody issues and other life challenges she deals with as a single mom.  And trust me she is no angel either, I deal with her toxic behaviors on a regular basis.
[/b]

Read this and think about it. 

I don't know what else to say.  This is beginning to belong in the "everyone sees it except the OP" thread.

If I ever for one second considered a person I was dating as "toxic", that would be the end of things.  (And yes, you know you said it was her behaviors, not her, and will likely fall back on that split hair.)

I've said similar before about this, and your recent post just reenforce it.  It think you are in love with the idea of this woman and who you thought she might become to you or who you think she could be if only a few things changed. Or you are in love with the idea of being in a relationship and trying to shoehorn this woman into your vision.  Because it doesn't seem like you actually like or respect her very much.  It doesn't seem like you enjoy the life you have with her.  It doesn't seem like you feel the relationship is healhty (and it isn't; not being able to have a basic conversation without being accused of causing drama, and not being able to talk something out without puking is NOT HEALTHY!). 

You can choose to be defensive and deny why multiple people--some of them incredibly smart and fantastic with relationship issues, personal interactions, trauma, and personal insight--are seeing.  Or you can ask yourself if maybe there is something--a lot--to it since multiple people are seeing it .  I hope you choose the latter, because this is Not Good--and probably damaging--for everyone.  And that includes you, as well as her and those poor kids.

 And no, it's not just a blunt writing style. 

One more thing:  you said you see the "potential" in the relationship.  I've long said that when it comes to romantic relationships, "potential" is perhaps the scariest word out there.  You don't date "potential."  You don't date who someone could be.  You don't date how things would be if-only.  You date reality.  You date the person in front of you, as they are.  If you don't want to be in a relationship with exactly that person--not who they might be if-only--then you shouldn't date them.
Thank you, I needed this. She 100% has toxic behaviors. And I think I need the strength to end the relationship, but as I mentioned earlier, I have difficulty ending relationships and I often hang on way too long.  I have told her many times what I need from or relationship and she either doesn't care, or doesn't listen.  I know 100% she can meet what I am looking for.  But she doesn't want to.  For example, when she needs something from me, she has time available to spend together.  But when she doesn't need something from me, she has no or very little desire to see me.

Please find the strenght.  it is one tough conversation.  That's awful, but it's one bad conversation.  (I always advice totally cutting off contact, or almost inevitably there will be relapses. )  Tht beats multiple awkard conversations, frustrations, resentment, and confusion.  And every second you stay in this relationship--a relationship that is all-but-doomed, and even you seem to kind of see that--those kids get more attached. They are already at the point where they cry when you miss their birthday party. It may feel mean and bad to break up, but it is cruel not to. I know you bristled at that word earlier.  But I think you don't want to be cruel, and you value not being cruel.  So I use that word again, intentionally, so that maybe your desire not to be cruel can help motivate you to have the Hard Conversation.  It's already gone on too long for it to be easy, and for it not to be really hard on those kids.  Don't exacerbate that by letting it drag on even longer.

Don't tell her what she did wrong.  Don't tell her if X was different, it might have worked.  Just end it, for everyone's sake.  Including your own.
To be clear, the kids did not cry.  They were upset and mad at their mom for not inviting me.  But no crying.  And yea...I just don't have the strength to end it right now.  Usually my relationships drag on way longer than they should until either there is a big blow up, or she breaks up with me. Breaking up is just not something I am good at unfortunately.

This a bad way to think.  Continuing on in a failed relationship requires much more strength and will be much more difficult in the long run.

"Look, I'm sorry it's not working out."

Then walk away and don't come back.  It doesn't require strength, but it does require a spine.

Laura33

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #109 on: February 23, 2024, 03:23:11 PM »
Usually my relationships drag on way longer than they should until either there is a big blow up, or she breaks up with me. Breaking up is just not something I am good at unfortunately.

This is a complete and utter cop-out.  Basically, what you just said is "I don't ever want to look like the bad guy or have a breakup be my fault, so I will just hang on until I make her so unhappy that she breaks it off instead."  That's a dick move.  And if you keep doing stuff like that, and you don't go to therapy or take other steps to deal with your issues and find a better way, then you are basically choosing to make people you claim to care about miserable, just so you can "look" like the good guy.  That is unbelievably selfish.

Yes, it is really fucking hard and uncomfortable.  That's no excuse.  If you're mature enough to get yourself into an exclusive sexual relationship, you've got to be mature enough to handle the breakup.  Literally everyone -- you, her, her kids -- is better off in the long run if you face up to the hard stuff than if you lead her on for months/years because you're so desperate to avoid looking like the bad guy. 

To quote Mellencamp, "you don't need no strength, you just need to grow up, son."  (from the Authority Song)

In this case, it's more "you don't need strength, you just need to type a few words on your phone and hit 'send.'"

G-String

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #110 on: February 23, 2024, 03:51:03 PM »
More issues with my GF last night...sigh. Her little kids got upset with her cuz she didn't invite me to her sons b-day today.  I'm upset she didn't invite me too.  I do work today, but she claims she did not realize I'd want to book a day of work to go, even though she knows I have lots of vacations days I need to use.  This all happed over speaker phone last night when I was talking to her and her kids. Within a minute of this, my GF gets nauseous, sick to her stomach and starts vomiting on the toilet. Is this a normal reaction?  Was she overwhelmed that everyone was upset with her at once?

I'm going to suggest you move this convo over to your other thread about this, rather than continuing it here.  Might make more sense there.
~~~~

It makes sense the kids would be upset.  You've become a father figure to them and you weren't invited to a family event.  I know you've been claiming that some of the kids (the little ones) just know you as "mom's friend".  I can assure you that kids are upset when mom doesn't invite some rando adult friend to their party.  They get upset when mom doesn't invite someone who they see as immediate family--like a father--to their party.

Also, the fact that your girlfriend was so upset over a fight that she vommited and your reaction is to ask if it is normal, is, well... not normal.  No, she's not okay.  None of this is okay.  And every minute you continue it, the damage get deeper.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  Tht's not a judgement.  It's a lot; I wouldn't be equipped to deal with it either.  You've got the 4 kids factor and the single mom factor and the messy Ex factor and the history of abuse factor and the very clear evidence of ongoing trauma responses and trauma guided behavior factor, and the terrified of even the slightest disagreement factor and the resentment from what you feel were lies at the beginnign factor, and the not enough tiem for you factor.  And probably more.  That's a lot of factors.

You are not equipped to do all this.  This is not a healthy relationship.  It's not okay.
It was not a fight.  It was a calm conversation over the phone.  She she says she threw up because her little girl had a stomach bug earlier this week.  I am simply wondering if it is related to the phone conversation.

Yes, it is entirely possible it is related.  And while you may not categorize it as a "fight", you had a conversation where you were "upset" and the kids were "upset", and it was enough to make you at least wonder if the vomiting was related, so if it wasn't a "fight", it certainly wasn't rainbow and kittens. You had some reason to question whether the vomiting was a result of the conversation.  Even if it was calm, it clearly wasn't perfectly agreeable. For a recently-abused woman still dealing with her abusive Ex and the resulting deep trauma, it may not take much to drive that level of reaction.  No, it's not "normal" for an average, healthy adult.  And that's kinda the point. 

So taking out the word "fight", I repeat the rest of my post.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  You are almost certainly actively damaging this woman, and her kids.  That becomes more clear every time you post about this fiasco of a relationship.
While I agree with you that I may not be equipped to deal with all of these issues, I think it is harsh to say I am damaging her and her kids.  She has told me many times how thankful she is for my support and for helping her and her kids through this.  I listen and talk with her every day multiple times about her custody issues and other life challenges she deals with as a single mom.  And trust me she is no angel either, I deal with her toxic behaviors on a regular basis.

Honestly, the level of contempt and disrespect you show for her in these conversations just makes me think you should break up with her even more. Wow.
Toxic behaviour is toxic behaviour. I don't see how that's being disrespectful. When she does toxic things I tell her that directly.

Metalcat

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #111 on: February 23, 2024, 04:00:32 PM »
]
Toxic behaviour is toxic behaviour. I don't see how that's being disrespectful. When she does toxic things I tell her that directly.

What concerns me most about the things you say about her is that I truly believe that you don't mean any malice by them, you genuinely can't see what's at issue with what you say.

Kris

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #112 on: February 23, 2024, 04:01:27 PM »
More issues with my GF last night...sigh. Her little kids got upset with her cuz she didn't invite me to her sons b-day today.  I'm upset she didn't invite me too.  I do work today, but she claims she did not realize I'd want to book a day of work to go, even though she knows I have lots of vacations days I need to use.  This all happed over speaker phone last night when I was talking to her and her kids. Within a minute of this, my GF gets nauseous, sick to her stomach and starts vomiting on the toilet. Is this a normal reaction?  Was she overwhelmed that everyone was upset with her at once?

I'm going to suggest you move this convo over to your other thread about this, rather than continuing it here.  Might make more sense there.
~~~~

It makes sense the kids would be upset.  You've become a father figure to them and you weren't invited to a family event.  I know you've been claiming that some of the kids (the little ones) just know you as "mom's friend".  I can assure you that kids are upset when mom doesn't invite some rando adult friend to their party.  They get upset when mom doesn't invite someone who they see as immediate family--like a father--to their party.

Also, the fact that your girlfriend was so upset over a fight that she vommited and your reaction is to ask if it is normal, is, well... not normal.  No, she's not okay.  None of this is okay.  And every minute you continue it, the damage get deeper.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  Tht's not a judgement.  It's a lot; I wouldn't be equipped to deal with it either.  You've got the 4 kids factor and the single mom factor and the messy Ex factor and the history of abuse factor and the very clear evidence of ongoing trauma responses and trauma guided behavior factor, and the terrified of even the slightest disagreement factor and the resentment from what you feel were lies at the beginnign factor, and the not enough tiem for you factor.  And probably more.  That's a lot of factors.

You are not equipped to do all this.  This is not a healthy relationship.  It's not okay.
It was not a fight.  It was a calm conversation over the phone.  She she says she threw up because her little girl had a stomach bug earlier this week.  I am simply wondering if it is related to the phone conversation.

Yes, it is entirely possible it is related.  And while you may not categorize it as a "fight", you had a conversation where you were "upset" and the kids were "upset", and it was enough to make you at least wonder if the vomiting was related, so if it wasn't a "fight", it certainly wasn't rainbow and kittens. You had some reason to question whether the vomiting was a result of the conversation.  Even if it was calm, it clearly wasn't perfectly agreeable. For a recently-abused woman still dealing with her abusive Ex and the resulting deep trauma, it may not take much to drive that level of reaction.  No, it's not "normal" for an average, healthy adult.  And that's kinda the point. 

So taking out the word "fight", I repeat the rest of my post.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  You are almost certainly actively damaging this woman, and her kids.  That becomes more clear every time you post about this fiasco of a relationship.
While I agree with you that I may not be equipped to deal with all of these issues, I think it is harsh to say I am damaging her and her kids.  She has told me many times how thankful she is for my support and for helping her and her kids through this.  I listen and talk with her every day multiple times about her custody issues and other life challenges she deals with as a single mom.  And trust me she is no angel either, I deal with her toxic behaviors on a regular basis.

Honestly, the level of contempt and disrespect you show for her in these conversations just makes me think you should break up with her even more. Wow.
Toxic behaviour is toxic behaviour. I don't see how that's being disrespectful. When she does toxic things I tell her that directly.

Yes, I understand that. And I see plenty of toxicity in your behavior, too.

G-String, you really need to break this off.

G-String

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #113 on: February 23, 2024, 04:06:13 PM »
]
Toxic behaviour is toxic behaviour. I don't see how that's being disrespectful. When she does toxic things I tell her that directly.

What concerns me most about the things you say about her is that I truly believe that you don't mean any malice by them, you genuinely can't see what's at issue with what you say.
Then please tell me...what's the issue with calling a spade a spade? If she's being toxic I tell her that. I see no issue with that.

Villanelle

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #114 on: February 23, 2024, 04:19:05 PM »
If you can't bring yourself to have the hard convo, it's better to send a text or email than to continue a dead relationship, because... it's hard to break up?  Like, sure, a break up text is a less-than-ideal way to end things.  But it's closer to ideal than continue to string along this woman and her kids.  Never mind that it is also better for yourself. 

It sounds like you want to be a good guy.  Continuing this relationship because it's uncomfortable and you arent good at is is not being a good guy.

In fact, I;d agree with someone who assessed it as "toxic" behavior. 

Metalcat

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #115 on: February 23, 2024, 06:55:43 PM »
]
Toxic behaviour is toxic behaviour. I don't see how that's being disrespectful. When she does toxic things I tell her that directly.

What concerns me most about the things you say about her is that I truly believe that you don't mean any malice by them, you genuinely can't see what's at issue with what you say.
Then please tell me...what's the issue with calling a spade a spade? If she's being toxic I tell her that. I see no issue with that.

No one should be dating someone whose behaviour they perceive as "toxic."

I've dated plenty of folks with trauma, and I've only seen them as toxic when the relationship was fundamentally unhealthy because "toxic" is defined by the damage it inflicts on others.

It's not mentally healthy to want to be with someone whose behaviour you perceive as profoundly damaging to you.

I live with a spouse with trauma and I am a spouse with trauma, and we have plenty of trauma-based behaviours that can be tricky to navigate, but they aren't "toxic" because we don't cause damage to one another. We instead compassionately understand the basis of the behaviours and compassionately support one another through navigating them.

My DH's behaviours have been incredibly toxic with exes who didn't have the capacity to compassionately work with him. The behaviours were toxic because they caused damage, not because he has trauma.

With me they aren't toxic because together we can navigate them in a healthier way.

So if you perceive your girlfriend's behaviours as toxic, that means you are fundamentally NOT compatible with her and her particular patterns of behaviour, which are likely heavily influenced by trauma.

In fact, I suspect that you likely make a lot of those behaviours worse, because your style of communication sounds incredibly invalidating.

I don't doubt that she does a lot of unreasonable things. You seem to think that folks think your girlfriend is faultless, and that's couldn't be further from the truth. We just seem to have more compassion for why she behaves the way she does than her own boyfriend, which is brutal.

At the same time, it's important to have compassion for you too. You are like this for a reason, and I strongly recommend you explore why in therapy.

Good therapy would definitely help you have healthier relationships with less frustration in the future.

InterfaceLeader

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #116 on: February 24, 2024, 01:33:35 AM »
Toxic behaviour is toxic behaviour. I don't see how that's being disrespectful. When she does toxic things I tell her that directly.

What concerns me most about the things you say about her is that I truly believe that you don't mean any malice by them, you genuinely can't see what's at issue with what you say.
[/quote]
Then please tell me...what's the issue with calling a spade a spade? If she's being toxic I tell her that. I see no issue with that.
[/quote]

Why is it so easy for you to call her out on toxic behaviour and so hard for you to break up with her?

Why is to hard for you to see and call out the 'spade' that is how incredibly dysfunctional and damaging this relationship is to everyone in it, and how it should've ended, like, yesterday.

GilesMM

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #117 on: February 24, 2024, 01:45:46 AM »
Toxic behaviour is toxic behaviour. I don't see how that's being disrespectful. When she does toxic things I tell her that directly.

What concerns me most about the things you say about her is that I truly believe that you don't mean any malice by them, you genuinely can't see what's at issue with what you say.
Then please tell me...what's the issue with calling a spade a spade? If she's being toxic I tell her that. I see no issue with that.


Why is it so easy for you to call her out on toxic behaviour and so hard for you to break up with her?

Why is to hard for you to see and call out the 'spade' that is how incredibly dysfunctional and damaging this relationship is to everyone in it, and how it should've ended, like, yesterday.



What does it actually mean for a person to be “toxic”? I know it doesn’t mean they are poisonous. Does it just mean their behavior irritates you? Is everyone toxic sometimes to some people?

TreeLeaf

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #118 on: February 24, 2024, 04:28:58 AM »
Just to add to @Metalcat 's excellent advice.

If you don't feel comfortable going to individual therapy, which I think is fairly common for some men especially, you could work on identifying and expressing how you feel on the forum.

For example - if it feels like people are accusing you of abusing your girlfriend, does this make you feel guilty?

When people criticize your behavior and relationship a lot and make assumptions about how you think and feel does this make you feel angry like you need to defend yourself?

Does this post make you feel like you are being belittled and looked down upon, like I'm assuming that you struggle with identifying and expressing your feelings when this is definitely not something you struggle with?

I started out by expressing my feelings on this forum more before deciding to go to therapy. It's actually been really enlightening for me and has helped me to identify some extremely basic flaws in my thinking which was driving some of my negative feelings, but which we're not very obvious before until I started expressing my feelings more to people.

And yes - I am a man. It's ok for men to go to therapy also. It won't make you any less of a man, and will actually help you become a better man and improve not only your relationships and interactions with other people but how you think and feel as well.

It might be useful to think about it less in terms of feelings and things and more in terms of self improvement.

If you're really driven by women and want a healthy relationship with a woman, and enjoy having sex with a woman (you previously expressed having a high sex drive), and do other things to try and attract women for romantic relationships like going to the gym, driving a nice car, grooming yourself, it might be useful to think of therapy as another way to help you understand women.

Maybe that sounds sort of sexist, but in my experience men are more scared of therapy than women are, on average, just like we tend to be scared of expressing our feelings in general. But a lot of men are also sort of desperate to be in a romantic relationship with a woman, and will do anything to try and impress a woman, so may be more inclined to go to therapy if they think about it in these terms.

It's sort of like being afraid of snakes.

Some men are scared of snakes, and scared of telling anyone they are scared of snakes because they think it will make them appear less masculine.

Other men are scared of snakes but are not scared of expressing their fear of snakes because they are not afraid of appearing 'less masculine'. People understand these men better because they express and explain their feelings better in relationships.

Then there is the last group of men, who have done research and understand they are scared of snakes, will express their fear of snakes, but who also understand that some snakes like garter snakes are not particularly dangerous, and after seeing a six foot long garter snake crawl into the crawl space of their house, and listening to their wife scream, they will grab a 2 foot long machete and crawl under the house to kill the snake, but will never find the snake until two weeks later in the shed, then have to chase it into the woods behind the house. Then the neighbor kills the snake with his riding lawn mower the next day. Because Bill just really enjoyed chasing snakes down with his riding lawn mower for some reason... :p

Being able to identify and express and explain feelings, and listen to and understand your partner's feelings, can be extremely useful in a relationship, and therapy can really help with this.

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #119 on: February 24, 2024, 05:18:02 AM »
Toxic behaviour is toxic behaviour. I don't see how that's being disrespectful. When she does toxic things I tell her that directly.

What concerns me most about the things you say about her is that I truly believe that you don't mean any malice by them, you genuinely can't see what's at issue with what you say.
Then please tell me...what's the issue with calling a spade a spade? If she's being toxic I tell her that. I see no issue with that.


Why is it so easy for you to call her out on toxic behaviour and so hard for you to break up with her?

Why is to hard for you to see and call out the 'spade' that is how incredibly dysfunctional and damaging this relationship is to everyone in it, and how it should've ended, like, yesterday.



What does it actually mean for a person to be “toxic”? I know it doesn’t mean they are poisonous. Does it just mean their behavior irritates you? Is everyone toxic sometimes to some people?

No, behaviour that is toxic literally causes damage to the other person.

If you don't understand how behaviour is toxic, it suddenly makes sense to me why you couldn't grasp how divorce could be beneficial for children in that other thread.

I literally spend my days working with the damage from toxic behaviours. Serious psychological and physiological damage occurs with consistent exposure to harmful behaviours from others.

The more vulnerable the person experiencing the behaviours, the more toxicity they experience, which is why much milder unhealthy behaviours are experienced much more toxically by children.

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #120 on: February 24, 2024, 06:43:47 AM »
@G-String I cannot remember at the moment if it talks much about relationships (I read it in the context of leaving a toxic work environment), but you might have a look at the book Necessary Endings by Henry Cloud.  He is the same person who wrote Boundaries, which a lot of people like/recommend -- personally I found that one to have too much of his religious philosophy wrapped up in it to be comfortable for me (raised in an evangelical family and still dealing with some of the fallout of that).  Necessary Endings is much more neutral from that perspective, and a big part of it is focused on recognizing that sometimes something that was good for us at one stage of our life no longer fits as we grow and change, and in order to become the fullest version of ourselves it is often healthy to leave behind situations that are no longer working for us, even though there may have been a lot of good in them for us at a different point of our lives.

It might be a good tool in your toolkit as you try to develop your ability to end relationships in a healthy way. 

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #121 on: February 24, 2024, 08:55:57 AM »
Toxic behaviour is toxic behaviour. I don't see how that's being disrespectful. When she does toxic things I tell her that directly.

What concerns me most about the things you say about her is that I truly believe that you don't mean any malice by them, you genuinely can't see what's at issue with what you say.
Then please tell me...what's the issue with calling a spade a spade? If she's being toxic I tell her that. I see no issue with that.


Why is it so easy for you to call her out on toxic behaviour and so hard for you to break up with her?

Why is to hard for you to see and call out the 'spade' that is how incredibly dysfunctional and damaging this relationship is to everyone in it, and how it should've ended, like, yesterday.



What does it actually mean for a person to be “toxic”? I know it doesn’t mean they are poisonous. Does it just mean their behavior irritates you? Is everyone toxic sometimes to some people?

No, behaviour that is toxic literally causes damage to the other person.



Physical damage you mean?

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #122 on: February 24, 2024, 09:21:14 AM »
Toxic behaviour is toxic behaviour. I don't see how that's being disrespectful. When she does toxic things I tell her that directly.

What concerns me most about the things you say about her is that I truly believe that you don't mean any malice by them, you genuinely can't see what's at issue with what you say.
Then please tell me...what's the issue with calling a spade a spade? If she's being toxic I tell her that. I see no issue with that.


Why is it so easy for you to call her out on toxic behaviour and so hard for you to break up with her?

Why is to hard for you to see and call out the 'spade' that is how incredibly dysfunctional and damaging this relationship is to everyone in it, and how it should've ended, like, yesterday.



What does it actually mean for a person to be “toxic”? I know it doesn’t mean they are poisonous. Does it just mean their behavior irritates you? Is everyone toxic sometimes to some people?

No, behaviour that is toxic literally causes damage to the other person.



Physical damage you mean?

??? Why would you edit my post to remove the part that specifically said it causes psychological and physiological damage???

Also, do you genuinely not understand the concept of psychological damage or are you just trolling me?

I genuinely cannot tell.

GilesMM

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #123 on: February 24, 2024, 10:43:59 AM »
Toxic behaviour is toxic behaviour. I don't see how that's being disrespectful. When she does toxic things I tell her that directly.

What concerns me most about the things you say about her is that I truly believe that you don't mean any malice by them, you genuinely can't see what's at issue with what you say.
Then please tell me...what's the issue with calling a spade a spade? If she's being toxic I tell her that. I see no issue with that.


Why is it so easy for you to call her out on toxic behaviour and so hard for you to break up with her?

Why is to hard for you to see and call out the 'spade' that is how incredibly dysfunctional and damaging this relationship is to everyone in it, and how it should've ended, like, yesterday.



What does it actually mean for a person to be “toxic”? I know it doesn’t mean they are poisonous. Does it just mean their behavior irritates you? Is everyone toxic sometimes to some people?

No, behaviour that is toxic literally causes damage to the other person.



Physical damage you mean?

??? Why would you edit my post to remove the part that specifically said it causes psychological and physiological damage???

Also, do you genuinely not understand the concept of psychological damage or are you just trolling me?

I genuinely cannot tell.


Was just hoping for a good working definition without all the drama. But not sure there is one.

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #124 on: February 24, 2024, 10:50:39 AM »
Was just hoping for a good working definition without all the drama. But not sure there is one.

What more "working definition" do you need beyond "psychological and physiological damage?"

Psychological damage means patterns of thinking and behaviour that are maladaptive and prevent people from experiencing life in a healthy way. Physiological damage is nervous systems and immune systems that do not react appropriately to stimulus.

I'm not being dramatic, I'm legit confused by what you are asking for.

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #125 on: February 24, 2024, 11:25:06 AM »
I've found this thread interesting especially learning how people have managed difficult relationship scenarios. And to answer the OP's question, yes I think everyone has relationship issues. My partner and I are trauma bonded and that has led to some issues. I've had therapy, I wish he would. He is a workaholic but doesn't do any of the accounting and leaves all the money juggling to me because he has money trauma. He can't handle criticism because of childhood trauma so that always get blown out of proportion, sometimes he hides small things from me if he doesn't want to deal with my reaction I see that as a problem but I don't know how big of an issue it is. I have my own CPTSP from trauma too so it is not one-sided. He and I are more or less aligned on money though he costs us way more. We've been together over 20 so it's a constant work in progress. But despite all that we do get a lot out of our relationship. I love his brain and humor and he lets me be my weird self, I'm not sure exactly what he would say but he seems to appreciate my compassion for others. In some ways our relationship is better than most, but in other ways it is worse. I guess a good relationship does have to do with communication, boundaries and balance and making sure each person in the relationship is thriving and as a couple you are learning to navigate the relationship better as more information becomes available.

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #126 on: February 24, 2024, 11:36:56 AM »
I've found this thread interesting especially learning how people have managed difficult relationship scenarios. And to answer the OP's question, yes I think everyone has relationship issues. My partner and I are trauma bonded and that has led to some issues. I've had therapy, I wish he would. He is a workaholic but doesn't do any of the accounting and leaves all the money juggling to me because he has money trauma. He can't handle criticism because of childhood trauma so that always get blown out of proportion, sometimes he hides small things from me if he doesn't want to deal with my reaction I see that as a problem but I don't know how big of an issue it is. I have my own CPTSP from trauma too so it is not one-sided. He and I are more or less aligned on money though he costs us way more. We've been together over 20 so it's a constant work in progress. But despite all that we do get a lot out of our relationship. I love his brain and humor and he lets me be my weird self, I'm not sure exactly what he would say but he seems to appreciate my compassion for others. In some ways our relationship is better than most, but in other ways it is worse. I guess a good relationship does have to do with communication, boundaries and balance and making sure each person in the relationship is thriving and as a couple you are learning to navigate the relationship better as more information becomes available.

Just to clarify, a lot of folks use the term "trauma bond" to mean two people with a history of trauma who bond over the shared experience.

The term trauma bond actually means to bond with the abuser who is causing you trauma.

The first can be unhealthy, but it can also be very healthy. The second is always unhealthy.

The first is healthy if the two people with trauma use their shared understanding to support each other in recovering from trauma. Both having experienced trauma can make each more compassionate and understanding of each other's trauma based behaviours.

It is unhealthy if two people with trauma-based behaviours make each other worse as a result of these behaviours.

It can span anywhere from mutually toxic to mutually beneficial.

DH and I were both profoundly traumatized when we got together, but we were both heavily invested in getting therapy and supporting each other, and that helped build a rock solid foundation.

If one traumatized partner isn't willing to work on repairing their trauma injuries though? This can mean they're taxing the other partner too much, which is incredibly common.

JupiterGreen

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #127 on: February 24, 2024, 11:50:52 AM »
I've found this thread interesting especially learning how people have managed difficult relationship scenarios. And to answer the OP's question, yes I think everyone has relationship issues. My partner and I are trauma bonded and that has led to some issues. I've had therapy, I wish he would. He is a workaholic but doesn't do any of the accounting and leaves all the money juggling to me because he has money trauma. He can't handle criticism because of childhood trauma so that always get blown out of proportion, sometimes he hides small things from me if he doesn't want to deal with my reaction I see that as a problem but I don't know how big of an issue it is. I have my own CPTSP from trauma too so it is not one-sided. He and I are more or less aligned on money though he costs us way more. We've been together over 20 so it's a constant work in progress. But despite all that we do get a lot out of our relationship. I love his brain and humor and he lets me be my weird self, I'm not sure exactly what he would say but he seems to appreciate my compassion for others. In some ways our relationship is better than most, but in other ways it is worse. I guess a good relationship does have to do with communication, boundaries and balance and making sure each person in the relationship is thriving and as a couple you are learning to navigate the relationship better as more information becomes available.

Just to clarify, a lot of folks use the term "trauma bond" to mean two people with a history of trauma who bond over the shared experience.

The term trauma bond actually means to bond with the abuser who is causing you trauma.

The first can be unhealthy, but it can also be very healthy. The second is always unhealthy.

The first is healthy if the two people with trauma use their shared understanding to support each other in recovering from trauma. Both having experienced trauma can make each more compassionate and understanding of each other's trauma based behaviours.

It is unhealthy if two people with trauma-based behaviours make each other worse as a result of these behaviours.

It can span anywhere from mutually toxic to mutually beneficial.

DH and I were both profoundly traumatized when we got together, but we were both heavily invested in getting therapy and supporting each other, and that helped build a rock solid foundation.

If one traumatized partner isn't willing to work on repairing their trauma injuries though? This can mean they're taxing the other partner too much, which is incredibly common.

Interesting. Okay I think we have a shared childhood trauma that we bond over. But I have certainly made things worse by "protecting" him from certain experiences (I believe this is co-dependency). I am currently working on this. His workaholism sort of replays some of my childhood trauma (abandonment). We had a long conversation about all the mental labor I do and how he is sort of checked out with the hard mental labor and his first instinct was to look up therapists for me (my amazing therapist retired). At first I thought it was for him and I was like yes, he is listening....ugh. I think he is also slightly neurodivergent so that doesn't help either. His solution is always to do more physical tasks, I mean I'm glad my bathroom is clean but I could have paid someone to do that. It would be nicer if he were to engage in a little more self reflection since we can't outsource that work.

@lhamo I looked up Gottman but there are so many products. Do you have a suggestion for a particular course you took?

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #128 on: February 24, 2024, 01:06:05 PM »
The definition of "toxic" seems nebulous enough that the word gets thrown around as a thought-terminating cliché. Better to be more specific about the type of behavior such as "controlling", "dishonest", "passive aggressive " etc.

lhamo

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #129 on: February 24, 2024, 08:01:51 PM »
We did the live version of the Art and Science of love workshop. The Gottmans were the main facilitators, which might not be possible these days. But the content should be the same. Here are the upcoming sessions:

https://www.gottman.com/events/?tribe_eventcategory=343

GilesMM

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #130 on: February 25, 2024, 03:23:56 AM »
The definition of "toxic" seems nebulous enough that the word gets thrown around as a thought-terminating cliché. Better to be more specific about the type of behavior such as "controlling", "dishonest", "passive aggressive " etc.

I googled it and came up with lists of everything under the sun.  I agree people need to specify what is happening otherwise it is impossible to guess what they mean.  I can say "My MIL is Toxic - what should I do?"  Nobody can say, really, without more information.

Metalcat

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #131 on: February 25, 2024, 06:48:52 AM »
The definition of "toxic" seems nebulous enough that the word gets thrown around as a thought-terminating cliché. Better to be more specific about the type of behavior such as "controlling", "dishonest", "passive aggressive " etc.

I googled it and came up with lists of everything under the sun.  I agree people need to specify what is happening otherwise it is impossible to guess what they mean.  I can say "My MIL is Toxic - what should I do?"  Nobody can say, really, without more information.

Yes, because generally when people say that someone is toxic, what they are actually indicating is that they, themselves, or someone they love, has been damaged by another person's conduct.

It's often more an indicator of how the speaker is feeling than what the other person has done exactly.

For example, my mother has a lot of psychological damage herself and engages in behaviours that were highly toxic for me as a child/teen, to the point that I had to leave home.

She still does the exact same shit, but I am not vulnerable to her, I have excellent boundaries, and her behaviour is now experienced by me as "silly/ridiculous" not "toxic."

Her behaviours are extremely unhealthy, and if someone wanted to categorize her behaviours as "toxic" in general, I wouldn't agree because they actively cause damage to other people who remain vulnerable to them.

But it really helps to understand that the concept of "toxic" behaviour is about the impact it has on the people around them, especially their children.

So if you hear someone say that someone else is "toxic," the meaning is more that that person is saying that they, or someone else they care about has been harmed by that person's behaviour.

Whether it's important to know exactly what that behavior is entirely depends on your motives with the person speaking.

Are you looking to make that person justify their claim or are you looking to understand the impact they've experienced? Both may involve an exploration of what the hell happened to them, but one will be more focused on you assessing the "facts" while the other is more focused on you understanding how the person perceived the experience.

So if you're looking for a nice and tidy definition of "what this person did is toxic" or "what that person did was uncool but not toxic" those definitions don't exist.

Toxicity is the complex interplay between unhealthy behaviours of one person and how those behaviours impact someone else.

If your goal is to understand the "toxic" person, then the focus should be on understanding what makes them emotionally unhealthy and how those behaviours manifest.

If your goal is to understand the person who used the word "toxic" then the focus should be on understanding how they were injured.

All toxic interactions exist because of a combination of unhealthy behaviours impacting people who are vulnerable to damage from those specific behaviors. Toxicity is the interaction, not the unhealthy behaviours themselves.

If you Google a list of toxic behaviours, you will find the common unhealthy interpersonal behaviours that are most likely to cause damage on average.

But the actual toxicity comes down to the combination of people involved.

It's similar to how you could Google a list of "romantic" behaviours, but they'll only actually be romantic if the receiver experiences them that way. Otherwise romantic behaviours could be experienced as, you guessed it, toxic, lol.

JupiterGreen

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #132 on: February 25, 2024, 06:59:37 AM »
Quote
All toxic interactions exist because of a combination of unhealthy behaviours impacting people who are vulnerable to damage from those specific behaviors. Toxicity is the interaction, not the unhealthy behaviours themselves.

@Metalcat This is a great way to put it.
@lhamo thanks, I found one coming nearish to me in the next couple of months.

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #133 on: February 25, 2024, 08:54:03 AM »
Before I answer the main thread topic, I'll say that, at 16, I begged my sister's boyfriend to break up with the guy I was dating on my behalf, because I was so terrified and uncomfortable with conflict. I still feel bad about that. It was also Valentine's Day, and the guy I was dating had bought a ton of gifts, an emotional card, and was clearly more into me than I was with him. I have since developed the skill of ending things that aren't working without involving a third party, mostly through recognizing that kicking the can down the road is ultimately more painful on all sides, and leads to stress and anxiety until I finally deal with it.

As for DH, I'd echo some of what Laura said. We also dealt with a kid who had ADHD, and DH really struggled with the diagnosis, the proposed treatment, and overall the parenting of now DS18. As that child has aged, life has gotten easier on all sides. He's an incredibly lovely & empathetic person, he has matured a ton in his ability to manage himself, and the good most certainly outweighs the bad. Has it been an easy journey? Heck no, but we've all developed better skills.

Money was more of a challenge for us in the early years. DH left his home country with under $100, not speaking the language, and just a lot of faith that things would work out. That's led to a ton of, I'll call them "quirks", on his side. He both has different needs than I do (food scarcity related), as well as has a different respect for money than I have. Meanwhile, I have a huge inner bag lady that is desperate for financial security. We drove each other crazy for a while there. I needed to know where every dollar was going, and he was super irritated by my nags to ask for a receipt, explain what was this $12 item he bought, etc. We mutually agreed to just bucket a bunch of receipts under a broad based category, and see if that solved the drama. Guess what? Largely it did.

It's also been solved by the fact that we're in a financial position that gives me a tremendous amount of comfort. Does he love that we have so much money in savings vs investments? Nope, but he understands that 1) I need that for my security and 2) we have two teens about to go to college, so any investment horizon would be super short, and I don't love that risk.

We mutually agreed to pay off our house (I know), and it was a hugely valuable decision for both of us. It's really increased our perceived financial security, and reduced pressure at work.

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #134 on: March 10, 2024, 12:09:05 PM »
DUDE!!!! As a mysoginistic drunk guy who has read all the incredible analysis/advice that you have gotten from the incrediblely insightful internet strangers that took the time to try to help you,I gotta try to sum this up for you........

She has 5(!)kids the oldest of which is 20.

They all want to spend time with her.

SHE IS AWESOME!!!

No wonder you like her,but you will never(NEVER)be more than number 6.

If you are to be a loving partner,you will have to encourage her to be #6,which makes you#7.

If she has parents still living,or in laws who have been in her family's life for 20 plus years,that makes you number10,11?


I am sure 99% of us here prefer  having sex with another human than our selves but.....

IF YOU GOTTA BE #1.....THIS CHICK IS NOT for YOU!!!!!

G-String

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #135 on: March 13, 2024, 04:34:12 AM »
My GF and me have plans for our one year anniversary in early April. We've been talking about it for a few months now. She's very excited. Exact plans were not firm yet but we discussed dinner together and romantic evening etc.

Then today she tells me she booked plans for her and her 3 kids (age 6, 9 and 10) to go shopping in Minneapolis for the Easter long weekend (during our anniversary). Me and her kids get along great. She says she wants me to come and that she booked a 2 bedroom suite so we'd have some alone time. But she didn't consult with me at all about this. She just told me after her decision. And if I don't go, she's still going with her kids.

I was quite upset, mostly because she didn't talk to me about it ahead of time. I think I would have been fine with this if she just talked to me about it first. But she didn't. I think this was very disrespectful. This is the closest I've ever considered breaking up with her.

She's got a history of keeping things to herself and telling me after the fact. But this is different.

I'm quite upset. But should I be? Tell me like it is and if I'm wrong being upset, please tell me.

LightTripper

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #136 on: March 13, 2024, 05:01:49 AM »
DH has mental health issues, principally related to chronic pain issues, and I seem to be entering perimenopause. But we don't have much divergence around money, if that is what you are asking.

Gosh, are you me??

TreeLeaf

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #137 on: March 13, 2024, 05:05:04 AM »
My GF and me have plans for our one year anniversary in early April. We've been talking about it for a few months now. She's very excited. Exact plans were not firm yet but we discussed dinner together and romantic evening etc.

Then today she tells me she booked plans for her and her 3 kids (age 6, 9 and 10) to go shopping in Minneapolis for the Easter long weekend (during our anniversary). Me and her kids get along great. She says she wants me to come and that she booked a 2 bedroom suite so we'd have some alone time. But she didn't consult with me at all about this. She just told me after her decision. And if I don't go, she's still going with her kids.

I was quite upset, mostly because she didn't talk to me about it ahead of time. I think I would have been fine with this if she just talked to me about it first. But she didn't. I think this was very disrespectful. This is the closest I've ever considered breaking up with her.

She's got a history of keeping things to herself and telling me after the fact. But this is different.

I'm quite upset. But should I be? Tell me like it is and if I'm wrong being upset, please tell me.

For the love of God.

This is just frustrating me now.

I have been with the same woman for 20 years, completely paid for literally *everything* in her life, bought her the exact house she wanted, the minivan she wanted, gave her all the children she wanted, etc. I have no particular desire to control or influence my wife and don:t have nearly the same expectations on her as you have on this girl that you just started dating a few months ago and barely support at all.

You met this girl a few months ago. She has 5 kids who are not yours, and a life of her own before she ever even met you. Yet you try and *expect* to control her more than I control my wife of nearly 20 years.

I don't know what this woman has that you're in love with. Maybe she looks amazing, maybe the sex is amazing, maybe it is the affection and cuddles. Maybe she tells you you are awesome and amazing and is thankful for you in your life and strokes your ego.

I have no idea. But I can say that you either need to either let her the fuck go and find another woman who is more compatible with you, or completely accept her for who she is and stop getting so frustrated with her for super minor things.

She is *not* going to change to be more compatible for you and you're only going to make yourself more and more angry if you keep expecting her to.

Either 100% accept her for who she is, the pros and cons and all of her flaws, or find a different woman and let this one go. What you're doing right now is just causing your own suffering.

Ann

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #138 on: March 13, 2024, 05:07:05 AM »
I think you are wrong being upset here.  If you don’t join her in Minneapolis, it does not mean that you won’t do romantic dinner and evening.
Your anniversary is in April.  Easter is the last weekend in March, so it is not even eclipsing the anniversary date. 
She planned a fun trip with her family.  She wants to go with or without you.  She invited you and planned to give the two of you privacy if you go.

Are thinking that this trip will be “instead” of anniversary dinner /evening?  Are you upset that she is making fun plans that don’t hinge on your involvement? What is the source of frustration?

You could decline joining and try to plan a dinner later.

ETA: it seems like that your girlfriend IS the source of your frustration because her life situation, choices, communication style, and priorities are incompatible with yours.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2024, 05:10:18 AM by Ann »

G-String

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #139 on: March 13, 2024, 05:13:28 AM »
I think you are wrong being upset here.  If you don’t join her in Minneapolis, it does not mean that you won’t do romantic dinner and evening.
Your anniversary is in April.  Easter is the last weekend in March, so it is not even eclipsing the anniversary date. 
She planned a fun trip with her family.  She wants to go with or without you.  She invited you and planned to give the two of you privacy if you go.

Are thinking that this trip will be “instead” of anniversary dinner /evening?  Are you upset that she is making fun plans that don’t hinge on your involvement? What is the source of frustration?

You could decline joining and try to plan a dinner later.

ETA: it seems like that your girlfriend IS the source of your frustration because her life situation, choices, communication style, and priorities are incompatible with yours.
The trip falls right on our anniversary date as our anniversary is early April. 

My source of frustration is that she did not discuss this with me first.  I actually think this trip will be fun and I have no problem with it replacing our anniversary.  My issue is she just called me and dropped it on me, saying this is what I am doing with my kids; you can come or not.  There was no prior discussion or anything.  She said she was thinking about it for a couple months and never mentioned it to me prior to yesterday after she made her decision. 
« Last Edit: March 13, 2024, 05:24:15 AM by G-String »

G-String

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #140 on: March 13, 2024, 05:15:15 AM »
My GF and me have plans for our one year anniversary in early April. We've been talking about it for a few months now. She's very excited. Exact plans were not firm yet but we discussed dinner together and romantic evening etc.

Then today she tells me she booked plans for her and her 3 kids (age 6, 9 and 10) to go shopping in Minneapolis for the Easter long weekend (during our anniversary). Me and her kids get along great. She says she wants me to come and that she booked a 2 bedroom suite so we'd have some alone time. But she didn't consult with me at all about this. She just told me after her decision. And if I don't go, she's still going with her kids.

I was quite upset, mostly because she didn't talk to me about it ahead of time. I think I would have been fine with this if she just talked to me about it first. But she didn't. I think this was very disrespectful. This is the closest I've ever considered breaking up with her.

She's got a history of keeping things to herself and telling me after the fact. But this is different.

I'm quite upset. But should I be? Tell me like it is and if I'm wrong being upset, please tell me.

For the love of God.

This is just frustrating me now.

I have been with the same woman for 20 years, completely paid for literally *everything* in her life, bought her the exact house she wanted, the minivan she wanted, gave her all the children she wanted, etc. I have no particular desire to control or influence my wife and don:t have nearly the same expectations on her as you have on this girl that you just started dating a few months ago and barely support at all.

You met this girl a few months ago. She has 5 kids who are not yours, and a life of her own before she ever even met you. Yet you try and *expect* to control her more than I control my wife of nearly 20 years.

I don't know what this woman has that you're in love with. Maybe she looks amazing, maybe the sex is amazing, maybe it is the affection and cuddles. Maybe she tells you you are awesome and amazing and is thankful for you in your life and strokes your ego.

I have no idea. But I can say that you either need to either let her the fuck go and find another woman who is more compatible with you, or completely accept her for who she is and stop getting so frustrated with her for super minor things.

She is *not* going to change to be more compatible for you and you're only going to make yourself more and more angry if you keep expecting her to.

Either 100% accept her for who she is, the pros and cons and all of her flaws, or find a different woman and let this one go. What you're doing right now is just causing your own suffering.
We have been together one year, not "a few months ago".  In your view, couples in a committed relationship shouldn't discuss these types of things prior? 

Paper Chaser

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #141 on: March 13, 2024, 05:35:41 AM »
My GF and me have plans for our one year anniversary in early April. We've been talking about it for a few months now. She's very excited. Exact plans were not firm yet but we discussed dinner together and romantic evening etc.

Then today she tells me she booked plans for her and her 3 kids (age 6, 9 and 10) to go shopping in Minneapolis for the Easter long weekend (during our anniversary). Me and her kids get along great. She says she wants me to come and that she booked a 2 bedroom suite so we'd have some alone time. But she didn't consult with me at all about this. She just told me after her decision. And if I don't go, she's still going with her kids.

I was quite upset, mostly because she didn't talk to me about it ahead of time. I think I would have been fine with this if she just talked to me about it first. But she didn't. I think this was very disrespectful. This is the closest I've ever considered breaking up with her.

She's got a history of keeping things to herself and telling me after the fact. But this is different.

I'm quite upset. But should I be? Tell me like it is and if I'm wrong being upset, please tell me.

For the love of God.

This is just frustrating me now.

I have been with the same woman for 20 years, completely paid for literally *everything* in her life, bought her the exact house she wanted, the minivan she wanted, gave her all the children she wanted, etc. I have no particular desire to control or influence my wife and don:t have nearly the same expectations on her as you have on this girl that you just started dating a few months ago and barely support at all.

You met this girl a few months ago. She has 5 kids who are not yours, and a life of her own before she ever even met you. Yet you try and *expect* to control her more than I control my wife of nearly 20 years.

I don't know what this woman has that you're in love with. Maybe she looks amazing, maybe the sex is amazing, maybe it is the affection and cuddles. Maybe she tells you you are awesome and amazing and is thankful for you in your life and strokes your ego.

I have no idea. But I can say that you either need to either let her the fuck go and find another woman who is more compatible with you, or completely accept her for who she is and stop getting so frustrated with her for super minor things.

She is *not* going to change to be more compatible for you and you're only going to make yourself more and more angry if you keep expecting her to.

Either 100% accept her for who she is, the pros and cons and all of her flaws, or find a different woman and let this one go. What you're doing right now is just causing your own suffering.
We have been together one year, not "a few months ago".  In your view, couples in a committed relationship shouldn't discuss these types of things prior?

You'd been talking about doing something for months, but plans were not firm. She firmed plans up without running it by you (about 3 weeks prior to the date in question). You're fine with the concept of the trip and think it will be fun, but you're also so upset that she didn't involve you in the planning that you might break up over it? That's a pretty minor thing to get that upset about.

My best guess for this specific case is that something came up which made her want to plan this on her own, or she felt like she had to because you weren't taking action.

Perhaps if you'd taken more initiative about firming plans up ahead of time, you wouldn't be in this position?
Perhaps if you'd take more initiative with childcare, she'd have more time to spend with you one on one?
Perhaps if you're such a control freak that you can't just roll with it if your partner can't make their own plans without your involvement, you need to do some work on yourself?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2024, 05:37:38 AM by Paper Chaser »

G-String

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #142 on: March 13, 2024, 05:44:51 AM »
My GF and me have plans for our one year anniversary in early April. We've been talking about it for a few months now. She's very excited. Exact plans were not firm yet but we discussed dinner together and romantic evening etc.

Then today she tells me she booked plans for her and her 3 kids (age 6, 9 and 10) to go shopping in Minneapolis for the Easter long weekend (during our anniversary). Me and her kids get along great. She says she wants me to come and that she booked a 2 bedroom suite so we'd have some alone time. But she didn't consult with me at all about this. She just told me after her decision. And if I don't go, she's still going with her kids.

I was quite upset, mostly because she didn't talk to me about it ahead of time. I think I would have been fine with this if she just talked to me about it first. But she didn't. I think this was very disrespectful. This is the closest I've ever considered breaking up with her.

She's got a history of keeping things to herself and telling me after the fact. But this is different.

I'm quite upset. But should I be? Tell me like it is and if I'm wrong being upset, please tell me.

For the love of God.

This is just frustrating me now.

I have been with the same woman for 20 years, completely paid for literally *everything* in her life, bought her the exact house she wanted, the minivan she wanted, gave her all the children she wanted, etc. I have no particular desire to control or influence my wife and don:t have nearly the same expectations on her as you have on this girl that you just started dating a few months ago and barely support at all.

You met this girl a few months ago. She has 5 kids who are not yours, and a life of her own before she ever even met you. Yet you try and *expect* to control her more than I control my wife of nearly 20 years.

I don't know what this woman has that you're in love with. Maybe she looks amazing, maybe the sex is amazing, maybe it is the affection and cuddles. Maybe she tells you you are awesome and amazing and is thankful for you in your life and strokes your ego.

I have no idea. But I can say that you either need to either let her the fuck go and find another woman who is more compatible with you, or completely accept her for who she is and stop getting so frustrated with her for super minor things.

She is *not* going to change to be more compatible for you and you're only going to make yourself more and more angry if you keep expecting her to.

Either 100% accept her for who she is, the pros and cons and all of her flaws, or find a different woman and let this one go. What you're doing right now is just causing your own suffering.
We have been together one year, not "a few months ago".  In your view, couples in a committed relationship shouldn't discuss these types of things prior?

You'd been talking about doing something for months, but plans were not firm. She firmed plans up without running it by you (about 3 weeks prior to the date in question). You're fine with the concept of the trip and think it will be fun, but you're also so upset that she didn't involve you in the planning that you might break up over it? That's a pretty minor thing to get that upset about.

My best guess for this specific case is that something came up which made her want to plan this on her own, or she felt like she had to because you weren't taking action.

Perhaps if you'd taken more initiative about firming plans up ahead of time, you wouldn't be in this position?
Perhaps if you'd take more initiative with childcare, she'd have more time to spend with you one on one?
Perhaps if you're such a control freak that you can't just roll with it if your partner can't make their own plans without your involvement, you need to do some work on yourself?
Kids are away with their Dad on our anniversary so we already had the evening to ourselves for our anniversary.  And  this past week I asked her if I could make reservations for the restaurant she suggested, and she told me to hold off.  It is now apparent why she did that, because she had other plans with her kids, but decided not to tell me about them.  You are trying to make me out to be the bad guy here, but is it not concerning how secretive she has been here, and is her inability to communicate/consult with me not unhealthy for relationship of one year? 

Raenia

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #143 on: March 13, 2024, 05:50:03 AM »
Have you talked with her about the communication issues, and why it is a problem for you? If so, and it is still happening - it is clear she is not able/willing to change this about herself for you, so you have to either decide to accept it as is, or end things. Those two options are the only ones available, about this and any other source of conflict in your relationship. Accept it fully, which means stop complaining about it, stop expecting otherwise, and learn to be happy with the status quo, or leave. Those have always been the only two options in your control.

You seem to be incapable of accepting her fully as she is - witness the months of complaining posts and threads. If you can't do that, option B is all that's left to you.

Continuing to have expectations that she's shown you she won't meet, and then being upset about it, is not healthy for either of you.

Kris

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #144 on: March 13, 2024, 05:51:16 AM »
She made plans for late March with her kids.

She invited you along.

She did not need to consult you on that.

I do think you should break up with her.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2024, 05:53:23 AM by Kris »

Metalcat

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #145 on: March 13, 2024, 05:53:32 AM »
NO ONE should spend this much time angry at and judging their partner.

You shouldn't be asking yourself "am I justified in being upset with her?" You should be asking yourself "is it healthy for either of us that I'm so frequently upset with her??"

No! It's not healthy!!!

Look, I've been there. I've been in a relationship with someone I adored who had trauma and was unable to be the kind of partner I wanted them to be.

But I didn't just stick around and resent them for their constant "failures," I stuck around long enough to understand that this is what I was going to get. This is how they behave, and I need to either accept that or move on.

It's been a year. You know what she's like. Either accept her or move the fuck on.

FTR, the person I left ended up getting a lot of great therapy, overcoming their trauma, and we've been back together for exactly 10 years, and no, I DO NOT spend my time frustrated and angry with his behaviour. We go through unfathomable stresses together with my health, way beyond the petty, silly nonsense you get all fussed about, and we actually get closer and more trusting through those stresses.

Sometimes, even when the right two people are together, their life realities and/or mental health states don't allow them to have a healthy dynamic between them.

Adoring someone isn't loving them, and adoring them isn't enough to sustain an incompatible relationship.

Love is trust, respect, and acceptance. You don't trust her, you don't sound like you respect her, and you absolutely do not accept her.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2024, 05:59:58 AM by Metalcat »

Paper Chaser

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #146 on: March 13, 2024, 05:55:45 AM »
Kids are away with their Dad on our anniversary so we already had the evening to ourselves for our anniversary.  And  this past week I asked her if I could make reservations for the restaurant she suggested, and she told me to hold off.  It is now apparent why she did that, because she had other plans with her kids, but decided not to tell me about them.  You are trying to make me out to be the bad guy here, but is it not concerning how secretive she has been here, and is her inability to communicate/consult with me not unhealthy for relationship of one year?

Nobody can answer what's right or not at 1 year because every relationship is different. My SO (who is also a Single Mother of kids) and I didn't even meet kids until after the 1 year mark. What's "normal" for other people in other relationships isn't important. How you feel, and why is. You're coming to strangers on the internet to seek what is or is not normal because you're unhappy on some level, and cannot solve it on your own, or by just talking with your partner about this issue.

What we can see based on your posts is that her past is likely influencing her current behavior, but so is yours. She's making moves on her own because she's had to, and you're upset about not being involved in the planning because of your trust issues. The fact that this relatively tame issue is potentially the straw that broke the camel's back is indicative of larger, deeper issues at work here.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2024, 05:59:33 AM by Paper Chaser »

TreeLeaf

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #147 on: March 13, 2024, 05:57:11 AM »
My GF and me have plans for our one year anniversary in early April. We've been talking about it for a few months now. She's very excited. Exact plans were not firm yet but we discussed dinner together and romantic evening etc.

Then today she tells me she booked plans for her and her 3 kids (age 6, 9 and 10) to go shopping in Minneapolis for the Easter long weekend (during our anniversary). Me and her kids get along great. She says she wants me to come and that she booked a 2 bedroom suite so we'd have some alone time. But she didn't consult with me at all about this. She just told me after her decision. And if I don't go, she's still going with her kids.

I was quite upset, mostly because she didn't talk to me about it ahead of time. I think I would have been fine with this if she just talked to me about it first. But she didn't. I think this was very disrespectful. This is the closest I've ever considered breaking up with her.

She's got a history of keeping things to herself and telling me after the fact. But this is different.

I'm quite upset. But should I be? Tell me like it is and if I'm wrong being upset, please tell me.

For the love of God.

This is just frustrating me now.

I have been with the same woman for 20 years, completely paid for literally *everything* in her life, bought her the exact house she wanted, the minivan she wanted, gave her all the children she wanted, etc. I have no particular desire to control or influence my wife and don:t have nearly the same expectations on her as you have on this girl that you just started dating a few months ago and barely support at all.

You met this girl a few months ago. She has 5 kids who are not yours, and a life of her own before she ever even met you. Yet you try and *expect* to control her more than I control my wife of nearly 20 years.

I don't know what this woman has that you're in love with. Maybe she looks amazing, maybe the sex is amazing, maybe it is the affection and cuddles. Maybe she tells you you are awesome and amazing and is thankful for you in your life and strokes your ego.

I have no idea. But I can say that you either need to either let her the fuck go and find another woman who is more compatible with you, or completely accept her for who she is and stop getting so frustrated with her for super minor things.

She is *not* going to change to be more compatible for you and you're only going to make yourself more and more angry if you keep expecting her to.

Either 100% accept her for who she is, the pros and cons and all of her flaws, or find a different woman and let this one go. What you're doing right now is just causing your own suffering.
We have been together one year, not "a few months ago".  In your view, couples in a committed relationship shouldn't discuss these types of things prior?

You'd been talking about doing something for months, but plans were not firm. She firmed plans up without running it by you (about 3 weeks prior to the date in question). You're fine with the concept of the trip and think it will be fun, but you're also so upset that she didn't involve you in the planning that you might break up over it? That's a pretty minor thing to get that upset about.

My best guess for this specific case is that something came up which made her want to plan this on her own, or she felt like she had to because you weren't taking action.

Perhaps if you'd taken more initiative about firming plans up ahead of time, you wouldn't be in this position?
Perhaps if you'd take more initiative with childcare, she'd have more time to spend with you one on one?
Perhaps if you're such a control freak that you can't just roll with it if your partner can't make their own plans without your involvement, you need to do some work on yourself?
Kids are away with their Dad on our anniversary so we already had the evening to ourselves for our anniversary.  And  this past week I asked her if I could make reservations for the restaurant she suggested, and she told me to hold off.  It is now apparent why she did that, because she had other plans with her kids, but decided not to tell me about them.  You are trying to make me out to be the bad guy here, but is it not concerning how secretive she has been here, and is her inability to communicate/consult with me not unhealthy for relationship of one year?

Yes - this is concerning.

She clearly has some anxieties and issues.

The point I was making is that you either need to accept these issues and work with her and support her through these issues emotionally or let her go.

I doubt she is going to change much for you, based on the previous posts you have written, and having the expectation that she will change will be frustrating for you.

Being with her will be challenging and frustrating at times. It is your choice if it is worth it or not.

G-String

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #148 on: March 13, 2024, 06:00:40 AM »
She made plans for late March with her kids.

She invited you along.

She did not need to consult you on that.

I do think you should break up with her.
So considering her and I had plans to celebrate our anniversary together, and then she goes and makes alternate plans without consulting me, you feel her behavior was appropriate for a relationship of one year?  In your view couples in a committed long term relationship should not communicate with each other about these things prior?  She admitted she was thinking about this for 2 months and did not mention a peep to me until yesterday...in your view she is not being secretive and a poor communicator, but instead I am being too controlling? I just wanted to clarify your take on this. 

Kris

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Re: How many of you have relationship issues?
« Reply #149 on: March 13, 2024, 06:03:01 AM »
She made plans for late March with her kids.

She invited you along.

She did not need to consult you on that.

I do think you should break up with her.
So considering her and I had plans to celebrate our anniversary together, and then she goes and makes alternate plans without consulting me, you feel her behavior was appropriate for a relationship of one year?  In your view couples in a committed long term relationship should not communicate with each other about these things prior?  She admitted she was thinking about this for 2 months and did not mention a peep to me until yesterday...in your view she is not being secretive and a poor communicator, but instead I am being too controlling? I just wanted to clarify your take on this.

You keep saying your anniversary is in early April. Easter is Sunday, March 31.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!