Author Topic: How is it possible to shower without soap?  (Read 13646 times)

Coiny

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How is it possible to shower without soap?
« on: October 13, 2017, 05:36:31 PM »
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/has-anyone-tried-not-using-soap-and-shampoo-when-they-bathe/

Why do people say they can get clean without soap? How do they get rid of poop germs from their butt area?

ixtap

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2017, 06:46:31 PM »
Soap's main function is not anti germ. It is to increase surface area for the water to carry the germs away. Scrubbing and rinsing will work fine for some skin types. My face actually prefers just rinsing for daily cleaning, occasional scrubbing or exfoliant. You can also use baking soda, which is what I prefer for ultra low water bathing, when necessary.

My hair prefers occasional conditioner, no shampoo.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2017, 06:56:12 PM »
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/has-anyone-tried-not-using-soap-and-shampoo-when-they-bathe/

Why do people say they can get clean without soap? How do they get rid of poop germs from their butt area?

The human race (and entire animal kingdom) has existed for thousands of years without having to use soap to clean their ass, sheesh.

ohsnap

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2017, 05:17:05 PM »
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/has-anyone-tried-not-using-soap-and-shampoo-when-they-bathe/

Why do people say they can get clean without soap? How do they get rid of poop germs from their butt area?

Soap's main function is not anti germ. It is to increase surface area for the water to carry the germs away. Scrubbing and rinsing will work fine for some skin types. My face actually prefers just rinsing for daily cleaning, occasional scrubbing or exfoliant. You can also use baking soda, which is what I prefer for ultra low water bathing, when necessary.
...

I don't recommend scrubbing or baking soda for the delicates. :D 

MrsPete

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2017, 06:26:27 PM »
The human race (and entire animal kingdom) has existed for thousands of years without having to use soap to clean their ass, sheesh.
And what was the average person's expected life span for most of those thousands of years?  Cleanliness is one of the reasons the average person is living longer.

Paul der Krake

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2017, 06:36:28 PM »
Yeah if you scrub intensely enough you will feel clean. That's what backpackers do when rinsing off in a lake. It won't be as efficient as using a real shower, but much better than sleeping in a day's worth of sweat and dirt.

nereo

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2017, 06:51:45 PM »
Skin is one of the greatest barriers to infection ever created, and while I use soap and shampoo its a bit ludicrous to think they are daily necessities. As far as I know, no other animals use soap, and as others have pointed out people existed for countless millennia without modern (or often any) soap. There are many pockets of humanity today that use soap infrequently, sometimes because of a scarcity of water, and other times because its so plentiful.  When I was a competitive swimmer and training twice daily I rarely used soap because it would destroy my skin, opting instead for occasional exfoliant and lots of moisturizer.

The human race (and entire animal kingdom) has existed for thousands of years without having to use soap to clean their ass, sheesh.
And what was the average person's expected life span for most of those thousands of years?  Cleanliness is one of the reasons the average person is living longer.
That's a bit simplistic.  Lack of real medicine, uncertain food supplies and untreated sewage were also big factors in short lifespans. And the fact that people could go months without bathing in colonial times and still survive into adulthood kinda conflicts with the idea that soap is essential to existence. Interestingly many pre-historic island cultures, particularly in the south pacific, appeared to have longer lifespans sans soap.

MrsPete

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2017, 07:21:21 PM »
That's a bit simplistic.  Lack of real medicine, uncertain food supplies and untreated sewage were also big factors in short lifespans. And the fact that people could go months without bathing in colonial times and still survive into adulthood kinda conflicts with the idea that soap is essential to existence. Interestingly many pre-historic island cultures, particularly in the south pacific, appeared to have longer lifespans sans soap.
So you'd be cool with your surgeon coming into the operating room without scrubbing up?  Or the chef cooking your meal without washing his hands? 

Absolutely modern medicine and other factors have led to longer lives ... but improved hygiene is also one factor (which is what I said earlier ... one factor).

JLee

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2017, 07:22:40 PM »
That's a bit simplistic.  Lack of real medicine, uncertain food supplies and untreated sewage were also big factors in short lifespans. And the fact that people could go months without bathing in colonial times and still survive into adulthood kinda conflicts with the idea that soap is essential to existence. Interestingly many pre-historic island cultures, particularly in the south pacific, appeared to have longer lifespans sans soap.
So you'd be cool with your surgeon coming into the operating room without scrubbing up?  Or the chef cooking your meal without washing his hands? 

Absolutely modern medicine and other factors have led to longer lives ... but improved hygiene is also one factor (which is what I said earlier ... one factor).

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

FIREySkyline

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2017, 07:30:41 PM »
That's a bit simplistic.  Lack of real medicine, uncertain food supplies and untreated sewage were also big factors in short lifespans. And the fact that people could go months without bathing in colonial times and still survive into adulthood kinda conflicts with the idea that soap is essential to existence. Interestingly many pre-historic island cultures, particularly in the south pacific, appeared to have longer lifespans sans soap.
So you'd be cool with your surgeon coming into the operating room without scrubbing up?  Or the chef cooking your meal without washing his hands? 

Absolutely modern medicine and other factors have led to longer lives ... but improved hygiene is also one factor (which is what I said earlier ... one factor).

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman
This. You're creating a false analogy. Surgeons are going direct to your blood, not on your skin. And washing hands, well, you don't know what the chef has on his hands, and washing can mean different things to different people.

I'm a male (because I think this definitely does affect the applicability of my perspective to different individuals) I use no soap in the shower. Stopped in June. Everything about me is less oily. I used to feel absolutely gross if I went 1 day without showering. Now I can go days out on the trail and feel almost normal (almost :D). I no longer generate acne if I don't shower for multiple days or sweat. I occasionally soap up the armpits and nether regions. Note: I use hair product and deodorant. My wife says I smell great and I've noticed absolutely no ill effects. I'm sold on the no-soap train in most cases. I still wash my hands with bar soap, your hands go places where lots of undesirable germs get deposited.

nereo

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2017, 03:30:54 AM »
That's a bit simplistic.  Lack of real medicine, uncertain food supplies and untreated sewage were also big factors in short lifespans. And the fact that people could go months without bathing in colonial times and still survive into adulthood kinda conflicts with the idea that soap is essential to existence. Interestingly many pre-historic island cultures, particularly in the south pacific, appeared to have longer lifespans sans soap.
So you'd be cool with your surgeon coming into the operating room without scrubbing up?  Or the chef cooking your meal without washing his hands? 

Absolutely modern medicine and other factors have led to longer lives ... but improved hygiene is also one factor (which is what I said earlier ... one factor).
Your argument is not only a straw man, but more importantly you are creating a false equivalency.  Your conclusion is that soap is necessary for daily life, and your evidence is that people who lived centuries ago died earlier and did not use soap, ergo not using soap causes premature death. However, you are ignoring all evidence to the contrary.  As covered up-thread cultures who bathe frequently but did not use soap have had longer lifespans, its unlike you will die if you stop using soap for a long period and no other mammal uses soap to stay clean.

I'm not arguing that everyone should give up soap, but not using soap does not directly lead to death, and one can maintain good hygiene without it.

Barbaebigode

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2017, 06:26:54 AM »
That's a bit simplistic.  Lack of real medicine, uncertain food supplies and untreated sewage were also big factors in short lifespans. And the fact that people could go months without bathing in colonial times and still survive into adulthood kinda conflicts with the idea that soap is essential to existence. Interestingly many pre-historic island cultures, particularly in the south pacific, appeared to have longer lifespans sans soap.
So you'd be cool with your surgeon coming into the operating room without scrubbing up?  Or the chef cooking your meal without washing his hands? 

Absolutely modern medicine and other factors have led to longer lives ... but improved hygiene is also one factor (which is what I said earlier ... one factor).

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman
This. You're creating a false analogy. Surgeons are going direct to your blood, not on your skin. And washing hands, well, you don't know what the chef has on his hands, and washing can mean different things to different people.

I'm a male (because I think this definitely does affect the applicability of my perspective to different individuals) I use no soap in the shower. Stopped in June. Everything about me is less oily. I used to feel absolutely gross if I went 1 day without showering. Now I can go days out on the trail and feel almost normal (almost :D). I no longer generate acne if I don't shower for multiple days or sweat. I occasionally soap up the armpits and nether regions. Note: I use hair product and deodorant. My wife says I smell great and I've noticed absolutely no ill effects. I'm sold on the no-soap train in most cases. I still wash my hands with bar soap, your hands go places where lots of undesirable germs get deposited.

So, how was the transition between soap to no soap? Cold turkey? And if you sweat a lot exercising just water will do the trick? My wife stopped using shampoo few years ago, but I thought the transition period was too much for me, although I started using only one drop of shampoo diluted in water to wash my hair and didn't notice any negative effects.

FIREySkyline

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2017, 07:02:46 AM »
That's a bit simplistic.  Lack of real medicine, uncertain food supplies and untreated sewage were also big factors in short lifespans. And the fact that people could go months without bathing in colonial times and still survive into adulthood kinda conflicts with the idea that soap is essential to existence. Interestingly many pre-historic island cultures, particularly in the south pacific, appeared to have longer lifespans sans soap.
So you'd be cool with your surgeon coming into the operating room without scrubbing up?  Or the chef cooking your meal without washing his hands? 

Absolutely modern medicine and other factors have led to longer lives ... but improved hygiene is also one factor (which is what I said earlier ... one factor).

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman
This. You're creating a false analogy. Surgeons are going direct to your blood, not on your skin. And washing hands, well, you don't know what the chef has on his hands, and washing can mean different things to different people.

I'm a male (because I think this definitely does affect the applicability of my perspective to different individuals) I use no soap in the shower. Stopped in June. Everything about me is less oily. I used to feel absolutely gross if I went 1 day without showering. Now I can go days out on the trail and feel almost normal (almost :D). I no longer generate acne if I don't shower for multiple days or sweat. I occasionally soap up the armpits and nether regions. Note: I use hair product and deodorant. My wife says I smell great and I've noticed absolutely no ill effects. I'm sold on the no-soap train in most cases. I still wash my hands with bar soap, your hands go places where lots of undesirable germs get deposited.

So, how was the transition between soap to no soap? Cold turkey? And if you sweat a lot exercising just water will do the trick? My wife stopped using shampoo few years ago, but I thought the transition period was too much for me, although I started using only one drop of shampoo diluted in water to wash my hair and didn't notice any negative effects.
Yea, I went cold turkey. I was slightly oily for the first week or two, but it really wasn't bad, and this coming from someone who hates to feel oily. Even with tons of exercise and sweat water and some gentle scrubbing seems sufficient. I would say the armpits are the location where YMMV and the transition will require more commitment. Armpit sweat glands are different and typically do generate more smell (you can read up on that). Still, I think the transition is possible.

Paul der Krake

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2017, 07:15:47 AM »
This thread is becoming quite the... soap opera.

Bird In Hand

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2017, 07:30:51 AM »
This thread is becoming quite the... soap opera.

<clap>

I think there's a risk of going blind if you read through this whole thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnxCVydjYA4

Heroes821

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2017, 09:12:04 AM »
I haven't gone to no soap, but I did transition from daily showers to every other day or once every 3 day showers (not accounting for if I get extra sweaty or work outside or get covered in infant vomit) 

It took around a month of less showers to stop feeling oily. Now I occasionally will hit day 4 because I just never felt icky.  I do utilize soap with menthol (DUKE CANNON Big ASS Bar of Soap brand) Lasts about 4 months per bar.  Lucky for me my wife will tell me if I stink, but surprisingly with less showers I don't smell.


The lack of oily feeling is a huge improvement imo.  Also as a caveat I have an office job and am not out in the heat all day long.

Barbaebigode

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2017, 09:41:38 AM »
That's a bit simplistic.  Lack of real medicine, uncertain food supplies and untreated sewage were also big factors in short lifespans. And the fact that people could go months without bathing in colonial times and still survive into adulthood kinda conflicts with the idea that soap is essential to existence. Interestingly many pre-historic island cultures, particularly in the south pacific, appeared to have longer lifespans sans soap.
So you'd be cool with your surgeon coming into the operating room without scrubbing up?  Or the chef cooking your meal without washing his hands? 

Absolutely modern medicine and other factors have led to longer lives ... but improved hygiene is also one factor (which is what I said earlier ... one factor).

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman
This. You're creating a false analogy. Surgeons are going direct to your blood, not on your skin. And washing hands, well, you don't know what the chef has on his hands, and washing can mean different things to different people.

I'm a male (because I think this definitely does affect the applicability of my perspective to different individuals) I use no soap in the shower. Stopped in June. Everything about me is less oily. I used to feel absolutely gross if I went 1 day without showering. Now I can go days out on the trail and feel almost normal (almost :D). I no longer generate acne if I don't shower for multiple days or sweat. I occasionally soap up the armpits and nether regions. Note: I use hair product and deodorant. My wife says I smell great and I've noticed absolutely no ill effects. I'm sold on the no-soap train in most cases. I still wash my hands with bar soap, your hands go places where lots of undesirable germs get deposited.

So, how was the transition between soap to no soap? Cold turkey? And if you sweat a lot exercising just water will do the trick? My wife stopped using shampoo few years ago, but I thought the transition period was too much for me, although I started using only one drop of shampoo diluted in water to wash my hair and didn't notice any negative effects.
Yea, I went cold turkey. I was slightly oily for the first week or two, but it really wasn't bad, and this coming from someone who hates to feel oily. Even with tons of exercise and sweat water and some gentle scrubbing seems sufficient. I would say the armpits are the location where YMMV and the transition will require more commitment. Armpit sweat glands are different and typically do generate more smell (you can read up on that). Still, I think the transition is possible.

Thanks for the reply, I'll give it a shot.

FLBiker

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2017, 09:43:11 AM »
Very interesting!  I've thought about no shampoo off and on for years, but never heard of no soap.

BigHaus89

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2017, 10:58:22 AM »
I haven't used shampoo or conditioner in my hair for over a year. My hair has never felt healthier. I also mostly shower with water only, occasionally scrubbing the nether regions with soap(once a week maybe?). I workout daily(sometimes multiple times) and typically rinse off with water after a hard workout. I certainly don't smell bad at all.

I highly recommend trying this. At the very least, reducing the amount of showering and/or soap you use can make your hair and skin feel and look very healthy(from my own anecdotal experience).

Bird In Hand

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2017, 11:00:13 AM »
I've been no-shampoo for about 10 years.  The only exception is when I cut my hair with clippers.  Then I use both shampoo and conditioner to get the tiny cut hairs out of my scalp.  Otherwise I'm itchy for days.

I also only shower as needed to remove smelliness or dirt.  Sometimes that's as infrequently as 1-2 times per week (more likely in the winter).  I do wash my head/face in the sink every day to look presentable.  I'm pretty self-aware when I start to smell, but worst case my wife is quick to let me know if I'm starting to get ripe.

As far as soap?  I don't think it's strictly necessary, but pits and nether regions gets soaped anyway.  It just makes things quicker and easier in the shower.  If I were the only one using the bar of soap, it would last for many months.

jamesbond007

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2017, 11:02:51 AM »
Soap is just a surfactant. A surfactant is a compound that lowers the surface tension of a liquid, increasing the contact between the liquid and another substance. There are a wide variety of these compounds that work with oil, water, and an assortment of other liquids. Soap being the most used by humanity.

If someone wants to not use soap for a philosophical reason or just to try it out, sure by all means. But if it is for saving money then I'd say it is ridiculous. 12 pack of Irish Spring costs $10 at CostCo. Each bar lasts 4 weeks, at least. Using a soap costs about 3 cents a day. Even if you disagree philosophically, it doesn't make financial sense to get rid of soap. You'd spend, at least, double the amount of time in the shower scrubbing and wiping and what not potentially multiple times a day. If your time is worth less than 3 cents a day, sure by all means, get rid of the soap.

Cassie

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2017, 11:24:11 AM »
If you don't wash your hands frequently with soap through out the day you are putting yourself and others at risk of getting sick. Ugh!

Bird In Hand

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2017, 11:58:44 AM »
If you don't wash your hands frequently with soap through out the day you are putting yourself and others at risk of getting sick. Ugh!

I won't speak for anyone else, but when I talked about modest use of soap I was referring strictly to shower use.  When it comes to washing hands throughout the day after using the bathroom, before eating or preparing food, etc., hot water and soap are a must.  But not anti-bacterial soap...don't get me started on that. 

BrightFIRE

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2017, 11:59:37 AM »
If you don't wash your hands frequently with soap through out the day you are putting yourself and others at risk of getting sick. Ugh!

Totally untrue. I work with doctors (in a non-medical setting). This happened to come up a few years ago when the shared bathroom soap dispenser didn't get refilled ASAP. The thing that does the "cleaning" work is the rubbing of the hands together thoroughly under running water. You don't need soap and you don't need hot water. Those are just nice things to have. This knowledge made me feel better, because I have traveled to several parts of the world where hand soap was simply not available.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2017, 12:48:32 PM »
I won't speak for anyone else, but when I talked about modest use of soap I was referring strictly to shower use.  When it comes to washing hands throughout the day after using the bathroom, before eating or preparing food, etc., hot water and soap are a must.  But not anti-bacterial soap...don't get me started on that.
Since soap breaks down the lipid membranes of bacteria, isn't all soap anti-bacterial?

Bird In Hand

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2017, 01:06:55 PM »
But not anti-bacterial soap...don't get me started on that.

Since soap breaks down the lipid membranes of bacteria, isn't all soap anti-bacterial?

I guess?  Technically?  But I was referring to anti-bacterial soap -- the stuff that is/was specifically marketed to contain certain chemicals (like triclosan) that are purported to "kill 99% of bacteria on contact".  At least in the US that stuff was widely hyped and sold for years until recently.

Goldielocks

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2017, 01:23:46 PM »
I won't speak for anyone else, but when I talked about modest use of soap I was referring strictly to shower use.  When it comes to washing hands throughout the day after using the bathroom, before eating or preparing food, etc., hot water and soap are a must.  But not anti-bacterial soap...don't get me started on that.
Since soap breaks down the lipid membranes of bacteria, isn't all soap anti-bacterial?
If all "soap" breaks down lipid membranes, that would be a nightmare for our skin, not just bacteria (and perhaps that is one of soap's problems when we make it anti bacterial).  Soap essentially works by surrounding oil and lifting it away.  Lather helps with the efficiency of the lifting / taking away aspect.  As other say, scrubbing works, too, and water gets rid of salts and sweat (not oils) just fine.

Think of washing dishes -- the soap does not kill bacteria, it just "lifts and surrounds" the oily parts, gets fats off the surface and traps it, away from the surface, but your dishcloth scrub does the actual cleaning work.   If you run a restaurant, you then need a sanitizing dip (e.g., bleach solution) to kill germs per health codes.

I would be upset if my surgeon did not use some sort of disinfecting agent or did not use scrubbing motions when prepping, not so much about the presence or lack of soap, if it could be shown that oils are fine.

For OP, I found products with SLS (Sodium Laurel Sulphates) to be particularly bad for my skin, (too powerful perhaps?) but replacing it with soaps that do not have this seems to work, like the organic soap bar that lasts months (kept dry) next to my sink for my hands and face.   I was given several samples of organic soap in 2010 and have not used up half of it yet.

Slee_stack

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2017, 02:16:30 PM »
I use less soap than I used to, but I still use it regularly.

I tend to agree with Mr Bond below though.

Soap increases the efficiency and ability to remove dirt/contaminants.  Good luck using water alone to remove automotive grease for instance.  You can do it w/o a detergent, put its a pain (literally and figuratively).  You will likely also end up with a dirty rag rather than dirty water.

Presuming your skin isn't negatively affected by soap in general, it really comes down to what you'd rather do....scrub longer/harder...or use a little soap with your water.

If you do tend to dryout or are otherwise negatively impacted by using (or overusing) soap, then definitely try bathing w/o it.

JLee

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2017, 06:02:20 PM »
I use less soap than I used to, but I still use it regularly.

I tend to agree with Mr Bond below though.

Soap increases the efficiency and ability to remove dirt/contaminants.  Good luck using water alone to remove automotive grease for instance.  You can do it w/o a detergent, put its a pain (literally and figuratively).  You will likely also end up with a dirty rag rather than dirty water.

Presuming your skin isn't negatively affected by soap in general, it really comes down to what you'd rather do....scrub longer/harder...or use a little soap with your water.

If you do tend to dryout or are otherwise negatively impacted by using (or overusing) soap, then definitely try bathing w/o it.

Ordinary soap is terrible for automotive grease. 

These, on the other hand, are magical.

Slee_stack

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2017, 12:13:11 PM »
Ordinary soap is terrible for automotive grease. 

These, on the other hand, are magical.
Interesting.  They seem to get universal raves.  Are they moistened?  With what?  Do they leave any kind of residue?  Is it safe to eat with your hands after using?

GuitarStv

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2017, 12:19:54 PM »
I won't speak for anyone else, but when I talked about modest use of soap I was referring strictly to shower use.  When it comes to washing hands throughout the day after using the bathroom, before eating or preparing food, etc., hot water and soap are a must.  But not anti-bacterial soap...don't get me started on that.
Since soap breaks down the lipid membranes of bacteria, isn't all soap anti-bacterial?

Yes.

Most regular soap takes quite a while to break down the membranes though (I remember it was something like leaving the soap on your skin for 30+ seconds) for it to be fully effective as an antibacterial.

Cassie

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2017, 12:43:21 PM »
when I ws working we would notice who did not wash their hands before leaving the bathroom and then not eat what they brought unless it came from a store. Many people felt that way.  No one wanted to get sick. I am not a fan of anti-bactorial soap becaue of what i have read. There is a reason hospitals have signs everywhere reminding people to wash their hands and tell patients to not let someone touch you unless they do.  I don;t thik everyone needs to shower everyday depending on the activity they are engaging in.

milliemchi

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2017, 11:00:10 PM »
Hands get soaped and hair gets shampooed, but I stopped showering with soap 13 years ago. I switched to antiperspirant from deodorant at the same time, and now I stink much, much more rarely (almost never). I used to use soap on my face and got adult acne regularly and dry patches when exposed to elements, and that stopped when I switched to water only on my face and a nice towel scrub. Now I can shower in less than 5 minutes. Soaping and rinsing was a major pain in the as*, especially the back. The back was never really soaped properly before I switched, and did just as fine as the rest of my skin. My guess is that sweat, being water based, just rinses off. Oils, that don't rinse, are protective of skin. Mud, grease, etc. get washed with soap.

channtheman

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2017, 03:52:53 AM »
That's a bit simplistic.  Lack of real medicine, uncertain food supplies and untreated sewage were also big factors in short lifespans. And the fact that people could go months without bathing in colonial times and still survive into adulthood kinda conflicts with the idea that soap is essential to existence. Interestingly many pre-historic island cultures, particularly in the south pacific, appeared to have longer lifespans sans soap.
So you'd be cool with your surgeon coming into the operating room without scrubbing up?  Or the chef cooking your meal without washing his hands? 

Absolutely modern medicine and other factors have led to longer lives ... but improved hygiene is also one factor (which is what I said earlier ... one factor).

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This. You're creating a false analogy. Surgeons are going direct to your blood, not on your skin. And washing hands, well, you don't know what the chef has on his hands, and washing can mean different things to different people.

I'm a male (because I think this definitely does affect the applicability of my perspective to different individuals) I use no soap in the shower. Stopped in June. Everything about me is less oily. I used to feel absolutely gross if I went 1 day without showering. Now I can go days out on the trail and feel almost normal (almost :D). I no longer generate acne if I don't shower for multiple days or sweat. I occasionally soap up the armpits and nether regions. Note: I use hair product and deodorant. My wife says I smell great and I've noticed absolutely no ill effects. I'm sold on the no-soap train in most cases. I still wash my hands with bar soap, your hands go places where lots of undesirable germs get deposited.

I've often wanted to go without shampoo in the shower since I've heard lots of people sing the praises of how their hair feels and my wife has told me that shampoo strips my hair of all oil which sends my body into overdrive to replace the oil.  This makes my hair feel really oily if I don't shower for even a day. 

Your post inspired me to try no shampoo.  My wife just cut my hair really short and I've been scrubbing my hair as if I have shampoo in it and surprisingly, I can't tell the difference!  My wife couldn't either (and I had her inspect before I told her I was not using shampoo).   

GuitarStv

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2017, 10:44:45 AM »
I've gone 24 hours without using soap.  Current status - smelly.  Will try showering without soap and getting back to this thread with results.

FIREySkyline

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2017, 11:22:01 AM »
I've gone 24 hours without using soap.  Current status - smelly.  Will try showering without soap and getting back to this thread with results.
Haha, get back, yes, but you've got to give it a week or two before drawing any relevant conclusions.

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2017, 01:33:53 PM »
I am mustachian but I sure as heck will shower with soap. I suppose all the soap I buy in my lifetime might extend my ER by one or two hours. I think it is worth it...

epower

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2017, 02:12:51 PM »
I havenít used soap for 2-3 years now as well as not using toothpaste or shampoo. I use coconut oil as an anti bacterial and mouthwash and baking sofa and apple cider vinegar as a shampoo.

My skin, teeth and hair has never been better.

My wife hasnít mentioned I smell or have bad breath and my dandruff has reduced considerably as well as my eczema.

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2017, 02:19:49 PM »
I am mustachian but I sure as heck will shower with soap. I suppose all the soap I buy in my lifetime might extend my ER by one or two hours. I think it is worth it...
For the most part people here aren't skipping soap and/or shampoo because of the cost.  They are skipping it because, for them, it does not produce better results and sometimes has negative effects (e.g. dry skin, acne, sensitivity).

FIREySkyline

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2017, 02:45:28 PM »
I am mustachian but I sure as heck will shower with soap. I suppose all the soap I buy in my lifetime might extend my ER by one or two hours. I think it is worth it...
For the most part people here aren't skipping soap and/or shampoo because of the cost.  They are skipping it because, for them, it does not produce better results and sometimes has negative effects (e.g. dry skin, acne, sensitivity).
Exactly. But the money savings is nice too, especially vs. "natural" products. The cheap ones have all sorts of chemicals you just know there's no way you want all over you.

GuitarStv

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #40 on: October 23, 2017, 08:15:41 AM »
I've gone 24 hours without using soap.  Current status - smelly.  Will try showering without soap and getting back to this thread with results.
Haha, get back, yes, but you've got to give it a week or two before drawing any relevant conclusions.

OK, so here's how it went:

Friday
- Morning workout (30 minutes - warmup / power cleans)
- Morning shower before work with soap
- Afternoon workout (1 hr - Front Squats, Weighted Dips, Weighted Pull-ups)
- Didn't shower before bed because . . . lazy and changing sheets on Saturday.  :P

Saturday
- Afternoon bike ride (about 4 hrs)
- Afternoon shower w/out soap

Sunday
- Morning workout (30 minutes - warmup / power cleans)
- General housework (2 hrs - mowed lawn, cleaned garage, cleaned kitchen)
- Afternoon workout (1hr -Overhead Press, Deadlift, Weighted Chin Ups)
- Afternoon shower w/out soap



I found that showering without soap kinda works.

I ended up spending about 3x the amount of time in the shower as I normally would because of additional time required in scrubbing the magic triangle (armpit armpit balls/butt) before the stinky smell disappeared . . . so it will totally use more water and likely cost you more to do this.  With soap you really don't need to scrub as much or as hard, and the procedure is much faster.  I suspect that bathing would probably work better if you're going to try the no soap thing.  If you can soak in hot water for 30 - 40 minutes I suspect that the amount of scrubbing you would have to do would be significantly reduced.

If you want to have a quick 5 - 10 minute shower though, there just isn't enough time to get clean smelling.

FIREySkyline

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #41 on: October 23, 2017, 09:30:00 AM »
I've gone 24 hours without using soap.  Current status - smelly.  Will try showering without soap and getting back to this thread with results.
Haha, get back, yes, but you've got to give it a week or two before drawing any relevant conclusions.

OK, so here's how it went:

Friday
- Morning workout (30 minutes - warmup / power cleans)
- Morning shower before work with soap
- Afternoon workout (1 hr - Front Squats, Weighted Dips, Weighted Pull-ups)
- Didn't shower before bed because . . . lazy and changing sheets on Saturday.  :P

Saturday
- Afternoon bike ride (about 4 hrs)
- Afternoon shower w/out soap

Sunday
- Morning workout (30 minutes - warmup / power cleans)
- General housework (2 hrs - mowed lawn, cleaned garage, cleaned kitchen)
- Afternoon workout (1hr -Overhead Press, Deadlift, Weighted Chin Ups)
- Afternoon shower w/out soap



I found that showering without soap kinda works.

I ended up spending about 3x the amount of time in the shower as I normally would because of additional time required in scrubbing the magic triangle (armpit armpit balls/butt) before the stinky smell disappeared . . . so it will totally use more water and likely cost you more to do this.  With soap you really don't need to scrub as much or as hard, and the procedure is much faster.  I suspect that bathing would probably work better if you're going to try the no soap thing.  If you can soak in hot water for 30 - 40 minutes I suspect that the amount of scrubbing you would have to do would be significantly reduced.

If you want to have a quick 5 - 10 minute shower though, there just isn't enough time to get clean smelling.
That's why many use soap on the triangle but give let everywhere else stabilize its oil and good bacteria balance.

GuitarStv

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #42 on: October 23, 2017, 09:34:11 AM »
I've gone 24 hours without using soap.  Current status - smelly.  Will try showering without soap and getting back to this thread with results.
Haha, get back, yes, but you've got to give it a week or two before drawing any relevant conclusions.

OK, so here's how it went:

Friday
- Morning workout (30 minutes - warmup / power cleans)
- Morning shower before work with soap
- Afternoon workout (1 hr - Front Squats, Weighted Dips, Weighted Pull-ups)
- Didn't shower before bed because . . . lazy and changing sheets on Saturday.  :P

Saturday
- Afternoon bike ride (about 4 hrs)
- Afternoon shower w/out soap

Sunday
- Morning workout (30 minutes - warmup / power cleans)
- General housework (2 hrs - mowed lawn, cleaned garage, cleaned kitchen)
- Afternoon workout (1hr -Overhead Press, Deadlift, Weighted Chin Ups)
- Afternoon shower w/out soap



I found that showering without soap kinda works.

I ended up spending about 3x the amount of time in the shower as I normally would because of additional time required in scrubbing the magic triangle (armpit armpit balls/butt) before the stinky smell disappeared . . . so it will totally use more water and likely cost you more to do this.  With soap you really don't need to scrub as much or as hard, and the procedure is much faster.  I suspect that bathing would probably work better if you're going to try the no soap thing.  If you can soak in hot water for 30 - 40 minutes I suspect that the amount of scrubbing you would have to do would be significantly reduced.

If you want to have a quick 5 - 10 minute shower though, there just isn't enough time to get clean smelling.
That's why many use soap on the triangle but give let everywhere else stabilize its oil and good bacteria balance.

Wait, people rub soap on every inch of their bodies when they shower usually?  I've pretty much been a magic triangle only kinda guy (with shampoo on my head) for as long as I've been showering.

FIREySkyline

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #43 on: October 23, 2017, 09:59:45 AM »
Quote from: GuitarStv

Wait, people rub soap on every inch of their bodies when they shower usually?  I've pretty much been a magic triangle only kinda guy (with shampoo on my head) for as long as I've been showering.
I cannot speak for everyone but would imagine that is typical. I find my hair and face appreciate the stability the most.

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #44 on: October 23, 2017, 10:03:18 AM »
If you want to save water, use baking soda. It scrubs and deodarizes and rinses off quicker than soap.

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2017, 10:41:14 AM »
I havenít used soap for 2-3 years now as well as not using toothpaste or shampoo. I use coconut oil as an anti bacterial and mouthwash and baking sofa and apple cider vinegar as a shampoo.

My skin, teeth and hair has never been better.

My wife hasnít mentioned I smell or have bad breath and my dandruff has reduced considerably as well as my eczema.

Just keep an eye on things. i switched to salt and baking soda for brushing my teeth a couple of years ago. Then this year 2 dentists commented that my gums were receding a bit. I am using toothpaste again...despite how much cleaner my teeth feel with salt and baking soda.

Icecreamarsenal

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #46 on: October 23, 2017, 12:29:01 PM »
That's a bit simplistic.  Lack of real medicine, uncertain food supplies and untreated sewage were also big factors in short lifespans. And the fact that people could go months without bathing in colonial times and still survive into adulthood kinda conflicts with the idea that soap is essential to existence. Interestingly many pre-historic island cultures, particularly in the south pacific, appeared to have longer lifespans sans soap.
So you'd be cool with your surgeon coming into the operating room without scrubbing up?  Or the chef cooking your meal without washing his hands? 

Absolutely modern medicine and other factors have led to longer lives ... but improved hygiene is also one factor (which is what I said earlier ... one factor).

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman
Thank you for this website.


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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #47 on: October 23, 2017, 09:01:06 PM »
I donít always use soap in the shower.  If I donít use soap, I usually use a washcloth to ďscrubĒ my skin. And I only shower once every 5-7 days.  (Yup, I go a whole week sometimes.)  and I exercise regularly.  I sweat a good bit but once Iím dry I donít feel dirty.  I also donít smell and donít use deodorant due to the magic of being Asian.  If Iím really sweaty and have someplace to be and donít have time to sit around a dry, Iíll rinse off in the shower without soap. 

I do use shampoo.  Went for a while without it (using baking soda instead) but my locks started to get dry and brittle.

I do wash my hands frequently during the day because I work in an office setting and people can pass around viruses and bacteria by touching things like door handles and file cabinets and other office surfaces.

I rarely get sick.  I think Iím the last year Iíve been sick zero times, not even the sniffles.

None of my hygiene choices are to save money.  They just happen to work for me.

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #48 on: October 24, 2017, 08:10:37 AM »
I havenít used soap for 2-3 years now as well as not using toothpaste or shampoo. I use coconut oil as an anti bacterial and mouthwash and baking sofa and apple cider vinegar as a shampoo.

My skin, teeth and hair has never been better.

My wife hasnít mentioned I smell or have bad breath and my dandruff has reduced considerably as well as my eczema.



Just keep an eye on things. i switched to salt and baking soda for brushing my teeth a couple of years ago. Then this year 2 dentists commented that my gums were receding a bit. I am using toothpaste again...despite how much cleaner my teeth feel with salt and baking soda.

Did they say it was because of the baking soda? My husbands gums were receeding a bit and they said it was from brushing too hard.

Laserjet3051

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Re: How is it possible to shower without soap?
« Reply #49 on: October 24, 2017, 10:18:19 AM »
If you don't wash your hands frequently with soap through out the day you are putting yourself and others at risk of getting sick. Ugh!

Totally untrue. I work with doctors (in a non-medical setting). This happened to come up a few years ago when the shared bathroom soap dispenser didn't get refilled ASAP. The thing that does the "cleaning" work is the rubbing of the hands together thoroughly under running water. You don't need soap and you don't need hot water. Those are just nice things to have. This knowledge made me feel better, because I have traveled to several parts of the world where hand soap was simply not available.

lol. If you really believe this nonsense, try the following experiment. Rub some vaseline into your hands so they are nice and greased up. Now place your hands under cold or cool water and try to get rid of the vaseline by rubbing your hands together vigorously. Record your findings. Now repeat the same experiment with hot water and soap. Record your findings. Compare the outcomes.