Author Topic: How do you value happiness in regards to a house or location move?  (Read 2768 times)

dfalt

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How do you value happiness in regards to a house or location move? (Or other large purchases)

Here is a quick intro to know where I’m coming from. I’m not trying to get into a case study but want to give enough info to explain the question.
 
My wife and I have 2 kids (3 yr old daughter and 4-month-old son) and we purchased our first house ~2 years ago in North Austin (owe $239k and valued ~$315k now). We moved to location mainly to be close to work for both of us. We like the area OK and love our house. I decided to leave the crazy world of video game development and I hit the jackpot in jobs working from home for a software company. They pay me well, I get to work from home, unlimited vacation, great benefits, I love what I do, etc… Before the birth of our son, my wife quit her job to be a SAHM. Now we are both at home and loving our new life.

Now, we are completely flexible in where we live and I just need an internet connection. We do love Austin and want to stay in the area since we have a lot of family and friends here. The problem is they mostly live in West Austin which is about a 30-minute drive without traffic and a whole lot more during traffic hours.

We threw out the idea of moving where we could be within walking/biking distance of friends, family, walking and hiking trails, the lake, a grocery store, (better) schools, etc… The problem is that we would most likely have to spend $375-$400k to get what we want in the area. Since we are both at home almost all the time, being close to family/friends, outdoor activities, and other conveniences is very attractive to us. We don’t really have that where we are now.

We can still afford a house at that price range and still save a good amount but it will affect how fast we pay off the house and invest. It boils down to for us, is the price difference worth all the benefits? We have been going back and forth on the topic as it’s a significant number that we could use towards FI. My wife doesn’t really want to move once the kids are in school (fall 2019) so we have time to think this through fully.

So this comes back down to my question to you. How do you value happiness in regards to a house or location move? I think it’s way easier for me to judge smaller purchases, but when it comes to things like closeness to family/friends and house location against a large sum of money, it becomes much more difficult to quantify. Anyone else gone through a similar decision?


GizmoTX

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Re: How do you value happiness in regards to a house or location move?
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2017, 04:01:20 PM »
The Austin market has been steadily appreciating, especially where you are considering moving to; you are correct to make the decision now.

We have always tried to avoid a commute between home & work/school. I totally agree about not wanting to constantly drive 30 minutes+ on a regular basis. We encouraged our newly graduated (single) son to find an apartment near his new job in downtown Austin even though it meant he had to pay more; he's now 4 minutes away from his office. We live in Dallas but have a vacation house on Lake Travis/Hudson Bend that we want to move to permanently in the next year or so, because we're ready to downsize & it's a killer view. However, it's 45 minutes away from downtown. When we're there, we alternate where we get together, which is not every day, & DS may not be there forever.

How about the schools at your current & prospective neighborhoods? This is usually the deal maker/breaker.

lbmustache

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Re: How do you value happiness in regards to a house or location move?
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2017, 04:08:23 PM »
I generally am in favor of moving for an appreciable increase in QOL.

Your post is a little more difficult for me to answer because you're only (ha - can you tell I'm from LA?) talking about a 30 minute distance. I am not sure how this translates in miles, I'm thinking <30mi? Then again, people move short distances all the time...

Anyway, I would run the numbers (sounds like you have) and figure if it's truly worth the move. If you seen friends/family often enough and feel your QOL will improve significantly, it may be worth it.

surfhb

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Re: How do you value happiness in regards to a house or location move?
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2017, 04:42:52 PM »
Coming from somebody who drives 50 miles one way to work to be able to live at the beach, its a tough one.   Were only talking about a 30 min drive?   Do you make that trek often?   

How long will this change put off your FIRE plans?   4-5 years?   I say go for it.

There's more to life than FIRE.....although many on this forum would disagree.  ;)

wordnerd

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Re: How do you value happiness in regards to a house or location move?
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2017, 05:02:43 PM »
Calculate how many years it will add to your FIRE date. Ask yourself if the tradeoff is worth it to you. Only you (two) can answer that question.

Hargrove

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Re: How do you value happiness in regards to a house or location move?
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2017, 07:41:25 PM »
You lose a lot of money running the real-estate circuit again.

Would a bigger mortgage dampen happiness?
How stable is your job?
Did you calculate commute time, car depreciation, maintenance, and gas into the "keep your house" part of the equation?
Would moving somewhere LCOL for a much smaller mortgage near other friends be much better?

The last question sounds silly, but it can help you realize how much THIS PARTICULAR COMMUNITY really matters to you, vs the costs of a new mortgage. You may not even count the new mortgage as much of a drawback if this is your #1 favorite area to live. I would never do it because West Austin is meaningless to me and 60k isn't, so you have to come up with your own value on West Austin.

I calculate QOL in terms of time spent doing things that generate happiness, achievement, or community. An hour a week with family vs 60k is a tough call. If you're doing cookouts and trading babysitting and seeing a game with Dad every two weeks and bringing Mom to bridge and the kids' best-friends all live there... the value on the QOL side goes way up in terms of well-spent hours.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 07:44:13 PM by Hargrove »

dfalt

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Re: How do you value happiness in regards to a house or location move?
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2017, 08:01:49 PM »
The Austin market has been steadily appreciating, especially where you are considering moving to; you are correct to make the decision now.

We have always tried to avoid a commute between home & work/school. I totally agree about not wanting to constantly drive 30 minutes+ on a regular basis. We encouraged our newly graduated (single) son to find an apartment near his new job in downtown Austin even though it meant he had to pay more; he's now 4 minutes away from his office. We live in Dallas but have a vacation house on Lake Travis/Hudson Bend that we want to move to permanently in the next year or so, because we're ready to downsize & it's a killer view. However, it's 45 minutes away from downtown. When we're there, we alternate where we get together, which is not every day, & DS may not be there forever.

How about the schools at your current & prospective neighborhoods? This is usually the deal maker/breaker.

We are actually looking at Steiner Ranch and the Lake Travis area so it's right in your hood! My parents + some friends live in Steiner and we also have friends in the Lakeway area. We definitely would be moving to better schools (Lake Travis/Leander vs Round Rock ISD) so that's a good point with two young kids.

Your post is a little more difficult for me to answer because you're only (ha - can you tell I'm from LA?) talking about a 30 minute distance. I am not sure how this translates in miles, I'm thinking <30mi? Then again, people move short distances all the time...
Coming from somebody who drives 50 miles one way to work to be able to live at the beach, its a tough one.   Were only talking about a 30 min drive?   Do you make that trek often? 

I think that's why this makes it a little difficult. My wife and I agree that it's not THAT far of a distance. It more comes down to opportunities rather than the cost of driving. For example, there is no way we are going to pack the 2 kids up and spend 45min-1hr (traffic) in the car to go to friends or families house during the week to hang out and have dinner together. But if we were within walking distance, it would totally happen all the time as we are really close to the people in the area. The same goes for all the activities out there that we don't really have in our current location like hiking trails, many parks, and lake access. We just don't go do any of those things very often because it's not as easily accessible. Also, both of us HATE being in the car for longer than 10 minutes and we are homebodies that like to stay near where we live. It definitely works out great that I work from home and she's a SAHM. :)

I guess the question is will the opportunities will actually turn into actions that will, in turn, improve QOL. Will we ACTUALLY utilize the extra amenities? Will we ACTUALLY hang out with our friends and family more often? If we decide yes, what is that worth to us? That's the hard to quantify part for me. It's easy for me to say that a $2k TV is not going to improve my QOL that much. It's harder for me to justify spending an extra $100k to move to a location that's not that far away from where we currently are BUT there is a possibility we spend more time with the people we love and doing the things we enjoy.

How long will this change put off your FIRE plans?   4-5 years?   I say go for it.
Calculate how many years it will add to your FIRE date. Ask yourself if the tradeoff is worth it to you. Only you (two) can answer that question.
It looks like realistically only a couple of years so maybe it's not as big of a deal as I thought. :)

You lose a lot of money running the real-estate circuit again.
I totally agree! We had no idea this would be a possibility so I wish we would have known before buying this house!

Would a bigger mortgage dampen happiness?
How stable is your job?
Did you calculate commute time, car depreciation, maintenance, and gas into the "keep your house" part of the equation?
Would moving somewhere LCOL for a much smaller mortgage near other friends be much better?
1. I don't think so. This is a great question to think about though!
2. Very stable at the moment with a great company. There is always the unknown but in a pretty good spot atm and with my skills, I could pretty easily get another similar job also working from home.
3. Luckily, neither of us commute as I work from home and my wife stays home with the kids.
4. We don't really have another option for both family AND friends in a LCOL area but also another great question.

The last question sounds silly, but it can help you realize how much THIS PARTICULAR COMMUNITY really matters to you, vs the costs of a new mortgage. You may not even count the new mortgage as much of a drawback if this is your #1 favorite area to live. I would never do it because West Austin is meaningless to me and 60k isn't, so you have to come up with your own value on West Austin.

I calculate QOL in terms of time spent doing things that generate happiness, achievement, or community. An hour a week with family vs 60k is a tough call. If you're doing cookouts and trading babysitting and seeing a game with Dad every two weeks and bringing Mom to bridge and the kids' best-friends all live there... the value on the QOL side goes way up in terms of well-spent hours.
I think this is a great way to calculate QOL! I'm definitely going to sit down with my wife and see if we can come up with a plausible amount of well-spent hours.

Thanks for the input!

formerlydivorcedmom

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Re: How do you value happiness in regards to a house or location move?
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2017, 01:44:06 PM »
We're in a similar boat - we're actually considering moving 15 miles across town to a more walkable area where some of our friends live, and which would shave 5 minutes off the trip to visit the in-laws.  We could move into a house 10% smaller than ours for roughly the same price as ours, with a $2k per year savings in taxes.  It's not an easy decision.

Are your family and friends for sure going to stay in that area?

When I lived in Austin, I talked a good friend into moving down the street for me...and then a year later we moved to Manor.  Oops.

When I was a kid, we lived 30 minutes (25 miles) from my grandparents.  It felt like we saw them ALL the time.  It was probably more like 4-5 times per month.  No traffic, though.

Now I live 30 minutes (10 miles) from my in-laws.  We only see them a few times a month, not because of the drive (which is full of traffic during the week), but because we are all really busy and it's harder to find the same time blocks free.  If they lived within walking/biking distance, we'd see them more often, probably for much shorter blocks of time.

If it helps, I wouldn't worry about moving with elementary kids.  I moved my daughter after 1st grade, and she has thrived.  The friendships seem to start sticking in middle school.


NextTime

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Re: How do you value happiness in regards to a house or location move?
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2017, 03:32:41 PM »
To get the house, school district, and neighborhood my wife wanted, we probably paid an extra $30 - $40k for our house than we (I) originally planned.  And that's quite a bit in my city. But my wife is very happy. I could have done with a smaller house (and smaller mortgage), but the market was hot and the limited supply moved quickly this last year, and my little guy was starting kindergarten this fall.  Our townhouse also sold in one week, putting a lot of pressure on us to find something. So even though we spent more than I wanted (though the house still appraised higher than we paid), we could afford it, and my wife is very happy. We got a great house in her number one choice of neighborhoods.

You get to decide what your goals are and what will make your family the happiest.  If your goal is to FIRE as soon as you can at the expense of everything else, then stay where you are. If moving to a more expensive neighborhood (and you can afford it) to be close to friends and family will bring you much greater joy, then go for it. Don't let anyone else put you down for it. Not everyone's goal is to FIRE in 5 or 10 years.

meghan88

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Re: How do you value happiness in regards to a house or location move?
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2017, 05:16:57 PM »
Have you added up all of the pros vs the cons?  It might be an interesting exercise to draw up a sheet with those two columns, brainstorm about what should go into each and how points might be assigned, and then you and spouse each do separate exercises to assign points to each line item.

If one side outweighs the other, you'll have your answer.  You might also want to make sure that you're able to commit very happily to that house and that area for the next 18 years or so.  For example, would most of your family and friends be staying put?

Sounds to me like you are leaning towards a move ...

Dee18

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Re: How do you value happiness in regards to a house or location move?
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2017, 05:29:45 PM »
I think the key is this: "both of us HATE being in the car for longer than 10 minutes."  I also hate being in a car so I have always lived near work, although it meant having a smaller, older home than I would have as a commuter.  When I read about some people's' long commutes on the forum I start to feel stressed just at the thought of it.  It's great that the remote work situation has worked out so you can make the move.

swashbucklinstache

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Re: How do you value happiness in regards to a house or location move?
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2017, 06:34:09 PM »
Is there any possibility of renting for a year in the new area? Even keeping and leaving your current house dormant, or renting it out. If you move and it's the greatest thing you've ever done after, say, a full year, then buy. If it really doesn't make any difference for whatever reason then don't buy.

I know you said you could get another remote job easily, but don't forget that this is in a long up market and a hot job market for software that may not last forever. I don't know Austin at all so maybe there's not really a difference here.