How do you know when to stay or go?

[Winter's Tale]

I have been in my current job for over 5 years.  Hired as an entry level person.  My company invested in me, allowing me to pursue professional certification and offered tuition assistance for my grad school.  I have also been promoted and think my company sees me as a person with potential.  I feel very committed to my organization’s values and mission.  Also, I receive very generous time off, and the weekly schedule is not too demanding, except for certain busy cycles, which are usually predictable ahead of time.  I definitely value having paid time off and never again want to have a job like my first one, where I got exactly 4 days off the entire year I was there.  Also, spouse and I are thinking about starting a family soon, and I would be eligible for maternity leave here.  If I started a new job, I might not be able to use maternity leave, and I wouldn’t be as well established there.

But.

I have the itch to explore other opportunities.  I feel ready to take the next step professionally and am not sure when that will be possible here - I would expect maybe 3 - 5 years at the very earliest.  I believeI have a lot to offer and expect to be able to realize a 15% salary bump if I were hired somewhere else.  I would also target organizations that would offer more advancement opportunities.  These steps would definitely allow me to maximize my mustachian efforts in saving and investing. 

I'm struggling with the old "the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know" dilemma.
I’m looking for advice and face punches if necessary.

[Apocalyptica602]

Sounds to me that you described a whole bunch of things you love about your current job, but a few other things you'd want outside of it.

Could always compromise and ask for a raise or promotion at your current job, outlining that you're ready for advancement. If they truly feel about you like you've described then it shouldn't be much of an issue to them.

Or additionally, pursue other opportunities and see if your current company will make a counter offer. Explain to them that you really enjoy your job and feel aligned with the company's values and mission (the truth) but you're looking for more advancement and these other offers prove it (also the truth).

In this day and age, if you're not moving roles or titles, whether within the same company, or outside, every 3-5 years, you can get stagnant. This applies to both your career and your salary.

Although all things considered, if I were you, and truly loved my job, I'd probably stay, and try as much as I can to leverage upward.

[Winter's Tale]

Thanks, Apocalyptica.  I do love many things about my job.  My boss knows that I am looking to advance my knowledge and skills, but there just aren't any jobs unless someone in my group leaves, which looks unlikely.  My last promotion was in 2011, and I did get a 4 percent raise this year.  I definitely appreciate those things. 

There are several senior people in my dept. who have been working here for longer than I have been alive.  I am afraid that if I stay too long here, going somewhere else won't even be an option for me.

[Eric]

There are several senior people in my dept. who have been working here for longer than I have been alive.  I am afraid that if I stay too long here, going somewhere else won't even be an option for me.

Introduce them to this website.  Maybe we can convince them to finally retire!  :)

[DocCyane]

I think I've spent most of my career thinking there was something better around the corner. The problem with moving jobs is that you go from hero to zero. You aren't part of the team at the new place and there's no longevity to protect you.

Worse, you don't really know what the culture of a place is until you're there and it's too late. Sure it might pay 15% more, but the vacation they promise can never be taken because its implied that you shouldn't.

Or maybe they conveniently didn't introduce you to the guy you have to work with because he's a creep and has scared away everyone else in your position.

These are all worst case scenarios but it's coming from 20+ years up the career ladder. I had a good situation, I traded it for more money and I was laid off in two years. Toxic environment. Shitty boss. The works.

If you are mostly happy and are treated well, stay where you are. This allows the rest of your life to evolve. When your worklife is in turmoil, your personal life takes a backseat and there are no kids, no house, no vacations.

Just my opinion. I await the YOLO generation to shout me down.

[Lanny]

I'd say to at least start seeing what else is out there, but unless something really amazing comes up I'd stay where you are. I've moved for more money and ended up realizing that even 15% + more isn't always worth the risk of adding additional stress. Good luck!

[Purple]

+1 to DocCyane.

Finding a great workplace is a massive blessing, particularly if you think it will be around for a while. It is triply valuable if you are hoping to start a family and can see a future there with balance between work and family.

Count your blessings and be grateful. By staying, you will be able to build depth and longevity in a world which can be short on both dimensions.

[gooki]

There are several senior people in my dept. who have been working here for longer than I have been alive.  I am afraid that if I stay too long here, going somewhere else won't even be an option for me.

Sounds like my old work place. After my second child I had enough of trading security for an average wage. I'm starting my second job in six months come July. The good news, my salary is up 60% and no loss of benefits.

My top two tips.

1. If you are not in a rush, aim high. Ask for a lot of money. The more you ask for the more capable they think you are (you just have to back it up when it comes interview time).

2. If you get an offer from another company, you can always give your current employer the chance match it.

And yeah I totally experienced the not fitting into the team thing, but that was mostly because I was a sole person in my team, that serviced 8 other teams. Not enough one on one contact to build relationships fast enough.

[jrhampt]

Timely post, as I am in a similar situation.  I've been here 4 years, great job, great boss, flex hours, loads of PTO, telecommute option, interesting projects, just finished graduate degree funded by company.  And yet... it's that time of year when the recruiters are out hunting and peers are leaving for new opportunities, after having received their fat bonuses for the year.   I am torn between DocCyane's sound advice to stay put and the temptation of 15-25k higher salaries cited by recruiters.  I have less than 4 years for baseline FI and a paid off house, so that could either be an argument to stick with what I have, since I have it good, or an argument that if I end up in a worse, but higher paying situation, it doesn't have to be for too long and could speed up the process of FI.  Also in the back of my mind is that 2 years ago, when I found myself under-compensated, I was able to successfully take an offer to my boss at the time and get a substantial mid-year salary increase.  Could I pull it off a second time?  I look at gooki's advice and think that is also good advice - although I don't think I could get a 60% increase - more like a 25% increase at most - so the decision is not so clear.  I am undecided and not looking actively, but have been unable to resist a couple of interviews set up by recruiters.  There is no harm in looking, at least.

[Dynasty]

These are all worst case scenarios but it's coming from 20+ years up the career ladder. I had a good situation, I traded it for more money and I was laid off in two years. Toxic environment. Shitty boss. The works.

If you are mostly happy and are treated well, stay where you are. This allows the rest of your life to evolve. When your worklife is in turmoil, your personal life takes a backseat and there are no kids, no house, no vacations.

I fully agree with this.  About five or six years ago I took a job for about a 20% pay increase.  First day in I realized I had made the worst mistake of my life.. I had a direct supervisor who did not want me there. She actually told me this... The whole time I worked there, except the one week my supervisor was on vacation, I felt like walking on pins, needles, razor blades, broken glass and hot coals. My social life came to a halt. My health suffered, I dreaded going to bed at night because the sooner I went to sleep, the sooner I'd be back at that place. Toxic environment to the extreme.

I ended up getting laid off eight months after I started, thank god, when all the work dried up and economy started to tank.  The next job was a lot better... Looking back, I should have been looking for new work to get out of that place, but I was worried it would be a huge red flag on my resume only having been at a new place a short while..

If you're mostly happy where you are, best to stay there.

[Mrs WW]

It's the "wanting to start a family" that would be the deal breaker for me. Have the baby, take out maternity leave and get a feel for how you want your life as a family to be. Will your career be as important as before, will your want to stay living where you are right now? For me everything changed, i got very sick after the first baby and had to reconcider everything I knew, planned and thought of myself and my career pre baby. My change of attitude towards work, and the shift in priorities has changes my life totally, but absolutely for the better.

[Lina]

I would start looking for other opportunities. I just changed workplaces after being 3,5 years in my last position. After about 2 years I started getting bored and restless due to the lack of advancement. I had a great boss, regular pay increases, a lot of flexibility etc but I was not challenged. I think the worst thing you can do to yourself and your future is to become stagnant and stay in one place because it feels more secure. I need to feel that I develop and that I am challenged otherwise I am soon pretty miserable.

I started looking for new opportunities after two years in my previous workplace. Because I didn't need to change workplace I was not in a panic to find something else I was negotiating from a totally different position. If you don't like your new workplace you can always find another job. If you are mustachian you also probably also have some financial leverage to get flexibility in your new position if necessary.

Before accepting an offer do your homework about the position and the company. Do you know anyone that works in the company or does anyone in your network? Ask them about the company and the work environment. Is it the same as the company promotes etc. Find out the pros and cons about the position etc.

[waltertyree]

You never mention how your current situation is moving you towards FI/RE. That has to figure into any decision. Maybe this issue becomes moot in a few years.

Something to consider about recruiters and HR folks: they are trying to sell you on the new job. Their incentive to get you into that job may have nothing to do with your needs and everything to do with their personal performance reviews (and the fact that recruiters usually get a commission on your new salary). Take Lina's advice if you decide to look and do lots of homework. Since you are in a position that you don't hate, you can be super picky.

My two cents on the baby thing: it's a life changing event for you and the partner, adding the stress of a new job may not be in your best interest until you adjust.

[totoro]

I would probably stay put if I was looking to have a child soon.  You know your job and what is expected of you, they seem like good employers, and you have maternity leave. 

If your next position might not have maternity leave I wonder if that is more than a 15% difference right there?

Once you have children this might impact what you are looking for with work.  You might want to wait and see what seems to be the best choice after this happens.

[mstryin]

another support for DocCyane

My husband left a great job to take what we thought would be an even better amazing opportunity.  9 months later he was laid off from the new amazing opportunity.  Just awful.  Sometimes the grass is not greener.  If you enjoy the work and the perks - stay put! Especially if you intend to think about having a baby - do you really want upheaval in every area of your life?  If you are meant to go - the opportunities will find you....read Jamie Smart's book "Clarity". I think it might help you discover what you really want.  Sometimes we get itchy for change, but our best bet is to stick with it.

[marty998]

Just my opinion. I await the YOLO generation to shout me down.

I am from the YOLO generation. But I agree with you.

Grass is never greener. Sooner or later every organisation turns to shit. But you always have the choice whether to join in dragging it down or be the one who initiates a bit of "cultural change" within it.

If you are the one to suggest a new revenue stream, or figuring out how to cut recurring costs then you will be Management's darling. They might even set up a new department for you to run.

I read an article somewhere that many of the high paying jobs of the next few years haven't even been invented yet. By way of example in the space of a year, an entire army of "productivity specialists" have been hired in the organisation I work in. A job title which wasn't mainstream 5 years ago.

So when you think about your next "move", it might pay to be a bit imaginative with what is possible within your own company first, rather than thinking "gee I wish these old farts would roll over and die so I can take their job".