Author Topic: How do people with families DO it....?  (Read 18684 times)

MayDay

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Re: How do people with families DO it....?
« Reply #100 on: May 10, 2017, 10:58:31 AM »
That is awesome! Now put it into practice. Go to dinner with your friend, reschedule or miss the meeting :)

Tyson

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Re: How do people with families DO it....?
« Reply #101 on: May 10, 2017, 11:35:13 AM »
Yay!  Now take your boss' advice and carve out time for yourself. 

yuka

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Re: How do people with families DO it....?
« Reply #102 on: May 10, 2017, 11:37:02 AM »
I have similar hours to you (ranging from slightly to significantly longer), and where I work anyone with kids has a stay-at-home spouse.

4:15 -- wake up, shower, dress, eat, pack lunch
5:00 -- Drive to work
5:20-6:20 -- Work
6:20-6:50 -- Drive home
6:50-7:30 -- Work out every other day, otherwise eating moves up
7:30-7:45 -- Eat
7:45-9:00 -- Stupid admin stuff that wastes time (no internet or phone at work), or maybe reading
9:00-10:00 -- Get ready for bed, read

That's only 5 days per week, as I normally have weekends to myself for cooking and shopping and recovering. Clearly, for the people who have kids and share my schedule, they do it by arriving to a meal already cooked, playing with their kids for a few minutes, and skipping workouts. What better FIRE motivation could there be?

kjulez_83

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Re: How do people with families DO it....?
« Reply #103 on: May 10, 2017, 02:36:12 PM »
As others have said, most people don't work 11-12 hour days. If you are working days that long I would assume (or hope) you're making a shit load of money in which case depending on your age you would really benefit from aiming of early retirement so that by the time you are ready to have kids you could be retired.

But to work hours that long do you really love your job? I can't imagine working that many hours in a day but I have never had a job that I love. That might make it hard to just retire early (essentially just going cold turkey from work to have children) if you love your job or have been working in it so much that you might define yourself by it.

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kjulez_83

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Re: How do people with families DO it....?
« Reply #104 on: May 10, 2017, 02:39:08 PM »
Sorry using stupid Tapatalk app I didn't see this thread is so long I was only answering original question & not everything else so ignore me, I can't see how to delete my post :)

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Hargrove

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Re: How do people with families DO it....?
« Reply #105 on: May 10, 2017, 06:53:34 PM »
Yeah, I just wanted to +1 for the folks who are getting screwed on salary like it's their boss' job.

I am in sales. In my particular industry, the salary behavior is pretty normal, and with a twist. New guys work hard, and old guys don't even see or call their accounts, for 3-5x the pay. New guys walk in behind the retirees and get the wall of complaints from clients. I am the only one I know of working to buy my way out with a burly 'stache among the younger crowd. It's hard to stay sane, even with that.

The next job tier up may be a 33% pay hike and the same or MORE hours. The route to the semi-retired old-guys doesn't exist anymore - the industry is consolidating. The current spot pays so much more than other jobs I'm likely to get in under a year (with 4-6% raises), and with the second best benefits I've heard of, that by the time I landed a replacement career, I could be FI. So, I'm still trying to see if I can endure it long enough to decisively get off the bus. I wouldn't even attempt this job with a family - I don't have it in me to phone it in, and I don't have it in me to be an absent husband and father. Those who said "set boundaries" are right - even if you're expendable, this kind of boss wants a really well-documented path to fire you if they're going to, so they don't have to pay unemployment insurance, so you always have more time (and leeway for boundaries) than they'll ever tell you.

Managerial strategy is almost exclusively "Maximum Pressure." You have so much shit to do you can't do it, and they know you can't do it - they want you to 110% until you burn out because they think that it's easier to do that and replace you than allow you to get comfortable. They have their own threats every month and their own targets they can't possibly hit. Many coworkers have difficulty believing a compliment from the boss given how short-lived it is (you may get one in a month if you're getting high results, immediately before the next demand). They know you need a rocket pack to jump to the next ship and that most don't have time or energy to build one. Where you really lose is if you believe this is what every job is like - however, there are more jobs like this for the 30s crowd these days than most of the 50s crowd seems to believe.

The other option than jumping ship is learning to smooth your tie, ignore half the noise, generate results too good to get fired, and then fire yourself before you have a heart attack. I'm baffled that people are posting they have better jobs... no kidding.

I have no kids, but I feel awful for my coworkers who do.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 07:11:10 PM by Hargrove »

LadyStache in Baja

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Re: How do people with families DO it....?
« Reply #106 on: May 10, 2017, 07:37:55 PM »
YAY!

CloserToFree

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Re: How do people with families DO it....?
« Reply #107 on: May 10, 2017, 08:41:21 PM »
She said she tried because she knows how hard it is to have a normal life and at this point she knows we're making sacrifices.  I even mentioned to her the dinner I just cancelled for tonight.  She literally said that she is over doing this and she is now going to start putting her foot down and that I need to do it too.  She said...and I quote...."Listen.  If you need to go somewhere or do something during the day you need to block that time off of your calendar and do it.  Take that time or else you're going to get burnt out.  Go have lunch.  Or go to your doctor's appointment.  Or whatever.  I don't need to know about all these things; just block the time off and do it.  Or else you'll be like I've been the last however many years I've been working here.  I know because I've been doing it.  But no more for me; I'm done.  You are responsible for making sure you have a life and if you don't do it then it won't ever happen working here."

So...um....yeah.  That just happened!

If this isn't the universe telling you to take our advice and make some room for your personal life, I don't know what is!  So glad to hear this update (while also being a little wary of your boss bc frankly she sounds a little all over the place...).

Also, some words of encouragement about having a life AND kids.  I've been able to maintain a significant hobby/athletic involvement, an active social life, and overall a great lifestyle post-baby (DS is 2.5 now).  We travel multiple times per year, have a strong marriage, and are involved family members with our broader families too.  There are major challenges and times when we suck at a bunch of things, but overall life is awesome and we don't feel like we gave up ourselves when we had our kid.  The hardest thing for us has been getting less sleep and giving up sleeping in regularly (we were big sleepers on weekends pre-kid).  I credit financial security, a kick ass partner who loves being a dad and does more than 50% of household stuff/childcare (he has a very 9-5 professional  job), and being able to work an 80% schedule at my law firm.  Not a perfect life, but happy, fun, and a constant adventure. :)

ReadySetMillionaire

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Re: How do people with families DO it....?
« Reply #108 on: May 11, 2017, 08:33:08 AM »
So.  I almost can't believe the conversation I just had with my boss.  Like, it's actually kind of eery....

So she called to give me a 'resourcing update'.  I mentioned earlier I'm on two huge global projects.  Usually people with my position are only on one.  Well she called me to say I'm being taken off of one.  Long story short one of them we 'think' may start to wind down a bit, but the other is unexpectedly ramping up even more so I need to be back on the other.  Plus the one that's ramping up more again it just makes sense I focus on time-wise and not be back across both projects handling so many different time zones.

It actually doesn't alleviate the number of night meetings I'm having because I'm taking back 2 more countries in Asia again so it'll be the same in terms of the number of evening calls.  However, my boss said she eventually wants to get me off of evening calls.  She actually got someone hired at my company within the past few days to help with that but just found out once the person starts they're not even going to put them on her/our team.  So she said she'd actually been working on that in the background but it just didn't work out and that she was actually pretty angry she went through all of that only for them to 'take that person away and put them with someone else' against what was originally discussed.

She said she tried because she knows how hard it is to have a normal life and at this point she knows we're making sacrifices.  I even mentioned to her the dinner I just cancelled for tonight.  She literally said that she is over doing this and she is now going to start putting her foot down and that I need to do it too.  She said...and I quote...."Listen.  If you need to go somewhere or do something during the day you need to block that time off of your calendar and do it.  Take that time or else you're going to get burnt out.  Go have lunch.  Or go to your doctor's appointment.  Or whatever.  I don't need to know about all these things; just block the time off and do it.  Or else you'll be like I've been the last however many years I've been working here.  I know because I've been doing it.  But no more for me; I'm done.  You are responsible for making sure you have a life and if you don't do it then it won't ever happen working here."

So...um....yeah.  That just happened!

Didn't read this entire thread, but I did read your posts. While this update is welcome, you seem to not be good at setting boundaries and expectations of your co-workers and clients. 

I'm an attorney who is theoretically always "plugged in." When I meet with clients, I squarely tell them at our first meeting that I will not take phone calls after 5:00.  I also tell them that I will respond to all emails within two business days. This sets the expectation that I will not be responding to a 7:00 PM email asking me a stupid question.

As for my bosses (I am the only associate in a 24 lawyer firm), I simply do not respond to anything after 5:00.  I respond when I get in the office the next morning. The only time I'm bothered after 5:00 is if a partner has almost blown a deadline and needs my help getting something filed by the next day. That happens like 2-3 times a year.

Part of the reason that happens so little is that I come in every weekend and look at every matter I'm working on. I notice a deadline is coming up in a week and ask the partner, "Hey, you want me to get this started?" That avoids emergencies and stupidly long nights.

Anyway, this whole modern concept of always being "plugged in" is only as bad as you make it. Start setting boundaries. Stop replying to emails right away. Stop doing tasks right when you are asked. Take preventative measures to stop having shit hit the fan.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 08:35:48 AM by ReadySetMillionaire »

Bobberth

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Re: How do people with families DO it....?
« Reply #109 on: May 11, 2017, 10:57:47 AM »
One thing I noticed is that you are spending 2.5 hours on a 1.2 hour workout. I started running because I couldn't afford the time to go to the gym and back. I do my workout in the morning. Wake up at 515am. Wake up, get dressed, poop and try to be out the door by 530. I have a 6 mile loop that for me is about an hour. Get back, cool down by un/loading dishwasher and making lunch. Hop in the shower and go. My 1 hour workout 'costs' me pretty much 1 hour as all of the other stuff would happen any way. If I had to drive to the gym, that would be 20 minutes there, 20 minutes back on top of whatever time there-not worth it. I know many others that choose running because of the time thing-as soon as we hit the door we are exercising.

I purchased dumbbells to do weights on my off days. I don't want to spend the money on a big set up so can't do the heavy weights like at the gym so I focus on lighter weight and higher reps.

Tyson

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Re: How do people with families DO it....?
« Reply #110 on: May 11, 2017, 11:05:11 AM »
Personally I hate gyms.  They are just big cubicles with exercise equipment in them instead of office equipment.  I don't run but I do bike.  Exercising outside is soooo much nicer than being stuck in a gym sweating my @ss off. 

mm1970

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Re: How do people with families DO it....?
« Reply #111 on: May 11, 2017, 11:36:51 AM »
Quote
Yes...I'm in a project management role. 

I agree with others that I need to incorporate better efficiencies.  The 'challenge' with hours is that, as I mentioned, I'm covering a team in the US but I'm also covering a team in Australia, a team in New Zealand and a team in Japan.  Those teams start their day as I'm ending mine and I obviously can't stay up all night and work 'with' them on their hours but it means my meetings with them are in the evenings and occasionally things pop up I should respond to if I see before going to bed basically. 

I'm in my late 30s.

It is a challenge. For a few years, I managed the team of engineers that worked the 24/7 shifts to keep the manufacturing line running.  So I had 6 engineers, they worked 12 hour shifts.  I was on call nights and weekends.  I considered it to be my job, however, to train them to handle things themselves.  Over time, they got good at identifying what was worth an after-hours call.  I also let them know that my cell phone was off at home.  They needed to call my landline.  For some reason, 20 somethings are loathe to do that.

We no longer do our own manufacturing, it's now in Japan.  So now I have meetings with Japan.  There are meetings every day, at the end of our day/ beginning of their day.  I simply cannot be in a meeting from 4 to 6 pm every day, so I've specifically chosen the 2 that are essential.  I set aside time to respond to their needs, but also set expectations that they learn to do things on their own.  The days that I work late for these meetings I also start late.

mm1970

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Re: How do people with families DO it....?
« Reply #112 on: May 11, 2017, 11:47:26 AM »
12+ hours of work, plus answering emails at a few other times during the day?  Most people don't do that.  I work 8.5 hours a day and don't think about work at all once I leave.

Are you hourly?
I'm an engineer, almost 47, have been working and salaried for 25 years.

I've never consistently worked 12 hours a day.

At one job, crunch time (we eventually went out of business), I had a month of 12 hour night shift.  Technically was supposed to be 3 day one week/ 4 day the next.  But was actually 4-5 days a week.  At the end of the month I took a week of comp time.  I didn't ask for it, I told my boss I was taking it.

At one job, I had a couple of years of 9-9.5 hour days.  I'd say my typical week was 47.5 hours a week (yes, I kept track).  I was 30-32 years old.

I've done senior engineering, management, project management.  Never worked 12 hours a day for longer than a month.  And now way less.  Working even those hours didn't earn me a ton  more money, or better promotions.  Changing jobs is the way to get that.