$1500-$2500 reasonable for will & trust prep?

[Fru-Gal]

I have a legal benefit through work which already pays for a lawyer-prepared trust, but on top of that the lawyer says it's an additional $1500-$2500. We have the one propery (our house), plus various investment accounts. Family of 4 in California, one "child" in college. Can I just use a $60 NOLO package instead? http://www.nolo.com/sites/default/files/productChooserEstatePlaning.pdf

[honeybbq]

When we did our will and trust it was more than that. I think it was 3k. Probably depends on complexities and states.

This is one thing that I think is worth paying for to be done perfectly by a professional.

[FrenchToast]

Not sure about the cost, but for anyone that has used or looked into WillMaker or Nolo(which I've never heard of until now!), what are pros/cons?

[Fish Sweet]

I'm biased, because I work in this field (and in CA), but that sounds like a reasonable cost to me for a full trust plan (trust, PoA, health care directives etc.)  I would NOT go with the $60 online package.  I would, however, put some real thought into your current living situation... and also some thought into where you will be five, ten years from now.   No one can predict the future of course, but wouldn't it be annoying to set up a living trust, and then have everything change wildly and have to completely redo and substitute a bunch of new names? 

That said, people DO tend to update their trusts every 5-10 years, just as their life circumstances change and the laws change, and yes that's pretty annoying!  But!! the annoyance and the cost is a tradeoff to avoid more cost and hassle down the down.  When it comes to estate planning, inaction is still a choice of action, and I've seen a lot of people (in CA) who opt for no trust or a hundred buck online trust only to cost their family tens of thousands in attorney fees along with hundreds of thousands in taxes because their choice was inaction.

Preface with, I am not a lawyer, yadda yadda, but here are some things to take into account:

- Are you going to remain in CA for the foreseeable future?  A trust that you create in CA will still be applicable in other states... but other states have different laws governing taxes and estates, so you will probably want to update it if you move.
- Are your other children minors?  If so, do you know who you would appoint as a guardian for them should something happen to you or your spouse?  Do you trust this guardian with control of all of your assets as they look after your children?
- Children are able to inherit as soon as they hit adulthood (18), but do you want to restrict them so they have to wait until X age before receiving their inheritance? 25? 35?
- In general, do you know who you'd trust to take care of you should you become incapacitated, manage your estate, and carry out your wishes both while you're living and after you've passed?  Are these people older than you or younger than you?  Are they in good health? Do you want this responsibility (the appointment of successor trustee) to go to one of your kids once they reach their majority?
- In general, do you know who you DO NOT TRUST, and are concerned might try to make a grab for your assets/control of your estate?  Is there anyone you specifically want to disinherit?  Is there anyone you want to leave money to in a controlled manner (someone dear to you, but has an addiction or spending problem, for example)?
- Do you intend to leave your children any property in their inheritance?  Prop 13 can be leveraged to save them a LOT in property taxes and capital gains tax, if you structure the inheritance properly.

Just some thoughts for if you do (hopefully) consult an attorney. 

[Dancin'Dog]

What amount is prepaid?


$1,500-$2500 seems like enough to cover the full amount.  Your situation doesn't sound complex or complicated.  Most of the work will be standard cut & paste stuff with maybe a few tweaks. 


Writing this stuff up is reasonable, but executing it can get quite a bit more expensive.  I just finalized my father's estate and the attorney's fees were almost $12,000.  I have no idea if that's considered high/low or average. 

[TVRodriguez]

I'm biased, because I work in this field (and in CA), but that sounds like a reasonable cost to me for a full trust plan (trust, PoA, health care directives etc.)  I would NOT go with the $60 online package.  I would, however, put some real thought into your current living situation... and also some thought into where you will be five, ten years from now.   No one can predict the future of course, but wouldn't it be annoying to set up a living trust, and then have everything change wildly and have to completely redo and substitute a bunch of new names? 

That said, people DO tend to update their trusts every 5-10 years, just as their life circumstances change and the laws change, and yes that's pretty annoying!  But!! the annoyance and the cost is a tradeoff to avoid more cost and hassle down the down.  When it comes to estate planning, inaction is still a choice of action, and I've seen a lot of people (in CA) who opt for no trust or a hundred buck online trust only to cost their family tens of thousands in attorney fees along with hundreds of thousands in taxes because their choice was inaction.

Preface with, I am not a lawyer, yadda yadda, but here are some things to take into account:

- Are you going to remain in CA for the foreseeable future?  A trust that you create in CA will still be applicable in other states... but other states have different laws governing taxes and estates, so you will probably want to update it if you move.
- Are your other children minors?  If so, do you know who you would appoint as a guardian for them should something happen to you or your spouse?  Do you trust this guardian with control of all of your assets as they look after your children?
- Children are able to inherit as soon as they hit adulthood (18), but do you want to restrict them so they have to wait until X age before receiving their inheritance? 25? 35?
- In general, do you know who you'd trust to take care of you should you become incapacitated, manage your estate, and carry out your wishes both while you're living and after you've passed?  Are these people older than you or younger than you?  Are they in good health? Do you want this responsibility (the appointment of successor trustee) to go to one of your kids once they reach their majority?
- In general, do you know who you DO NOT TRUST, and are concerned might try to make a grab for your assets/control of your estate?  Is there anyone you specifically want to disinherit?  Is there anyone you want to leave money to in a controlled manner (someone dear to you, but has an addiction or spending problem, for example)?
- Do you intend to leave your children any property in their inheritance?  Prop 13 can be leveraged to save them a LOT in property taxes and capital gains tax, if you structure the inheritance properly.

Just some thoughts for if you do (hopefully) consult an attorney.

All this is good stuff to consider.

What amount is prepaid?


$1,500-$2500 seems like enough to cover the full amount.  Your situation doesn't sound complex or complicated.  Most of the work will be standard cut & paste stuff with maybe a few tweaks. 


Writing this stuff up is reasonable, but executing it can get quite a bit more expensive.  I just finalized my father's estate and the attorney's fees were almost $12,000.  I have no idea if that's considered high/low or average. 

This is a great example of why proper estate planning is important.  @GreenEggs , I'm sorry for your loss.  Now, I don't know the details of @GreenEggs and their father's estate, but I can say that for many people (not all), if an estate plan is properly prepared by a local attorney who works in this field, the family can save most or all of the $12,000 on the back end (not an unusual amount in some jurisdictions--this area of law is all local).

I always tell my clients that, in many cases, what they are doing is making a gift of time (and money) to their kids/loved ones, who will be saved the hassle and expense during their time of grief.  I've had clients who have signed their estate plans and then died, and the families of the clients who followed my recommendations and did things properly had a much much easier time of things when the testator died.  Sure, clients also want to make sure their wishes are respected, etc, but even those whose plans don't substantially differ from state law get the benefit of the savings down the road.

Put it this way: I am an estate planning and probate attorney.  I make a LOT more money on a probate of a small estate that was not properly planned than I do on most estate planning clients.

The grandma with the "simple will" that she got for $500 is going to leave thousands less to her grandkids than she expected b/c probate costs money in my state.

People who think "I don't have much, my estate is simple," are the ones who will have a more expensive probate and whose families will pay thousands more down the road.

[Fru-Gal]

Thanks so much for these replies! I know my grandmothers had trusts and that made finances very simple when they passed away, both in their 90s.

I did not know about updating every 5-10 years. Sounds like breast implants! Ha ha bad joke.

And yes I have understood that California probate is expensive. Hence the desire to protect our stash!

[LightStache]

I would get the NOLO living trust doc because a full-priced attorney is going to give you the same cookie-cutter solution at 30x the cost.

My parents paid an attorney for their living trust -- I reviewed the package and said "wait that's it?!?" They then bought NOLO for my sibling and me as gifts (I know that's a weird gift).

I work regularly with attorneys on bigger cases and I'm definitely not a lawyer hater, but in my experience the outfits willing to take on smaller jobs are doing a volume business that's not going to drive a greater benefit to you than off-the-shelf solutions.

[zygote]

@FatFI2025 , sounds like your parents unfortunately found the wrong lawyer.

I paid about $1400 for a will, PoA, and health care directive in NYC. I found the lawyer through a referral and she spent the time and effort to customize it exactly to my situation. I'm very glad I did it.

That's the main reason I would say it is absolutely worth it to pay for an individual to help you instead of doing a NOLO package. The online service is going to be the one that's cookie-cutter.

[use2betrix]

@TVRodriguez - I have a very basic situation and could use a little guidance.

What I want - if I die, I want everything to go to my wife. I’m 31, her 26.

If we both die (I.e. car crash) I want about 90% to my family, 10% to my wife’s. She’s on board with that. My wife has always been a stay at home spouse since we met and I’ve made 99% of our income. My family is very responsible and supportive, my wife’s family is not.

We have around $550k in savings/investments, a $1MM life insurance policy for  me, and $500k for my wife. No debts, we rent.

Also - I work oil and gas so we move frequently. 8 states and over a dozen cities in the last 8 years. I’m not overly concerned with the tax portion as Im young and no one relies on my wife or I. I want to make sure that if the Will is written in Texas, but say next year we move to Michigan, our wishes are still followed.

My biggest fucking fear (yes, vulgarity is necessary here) is that we would both die and everything we have is split up 50/50 between our families.

[iris lily]

Our fee was $3000 in St. Louis for will trust and end-of-life documents.

[Catbert]

Seems like a reasonable price for California.  I think I paid about $2500 10 years ago when our estate plan was set up (pour over will, trust, power of attorneys).

Simple on-line will might be ok if your situation has NO complexities.  Complexities include minor children, adults that you provide on-going support to (e.g., aging parents, handicapped relative), adults that shouldn't get a large lump sum (e.g., young adults, those with alcohol./drug/spending problems), items with large sentimental as well as monetary value (e.g., family homes, vacation properties), offspring from previous marriages, or any wish to control things beyond the grave (e.g, don't want a subsequent spouse to inherit "your" money). 

Warning:  I am not an attorney nor do I play on on TV.

[TVRodriguez]

@TVRodriguez - I have a very basic situation and could use a little guidance.

What I want - if I die, I want everything to go to my wife. I’m 31, her 26.

If we both die (I.e. car crash) I want about 90% to my family, 10% to my wife’s. She’s on board with that. My wife has always been a stay at home spouse since we met and I’ve made 99% of our income. My family is very responsible and supportive, my wife’s family is not.

We have around $550k in savings/investments, a $1MM life insurance policy for  me, and $500k for my wife. No debts, we rent.

Also - I work oil and gas so we move frequently. 8 states and over a dozen cities in the last 8 years. I’m not overly concerned with the tax portion as Im young and no one relies on my wife or I. I want to make sure that if the Will is written in Texas, but say next year we move to Michigan, our wishes are still followed.

My biggest fucking fear (yes, vulgarity is necessary here) is that we would both die and everything we have is split up 50/50 between our families.

Hiya, @use2betrix , I can understand your concern about moving around and wanting your wishes to be honored without having to create new documents each time you move states.  The good news for you is that as long as your Will is properly formally executed in the state where you live now, it will be honored in any other U.S. state (and in some other countries, too, but that depends on that country's laws).  Do NOT rely on a hand-written will (holographic will), which is allowed in some states but not others.  Go see an attorney who does this stuff a lot and get it done formally.

In your case, I would suggest that you and your spouse see an estate planning attorney in your area and have prepared at least:
1. Last Will and Testament
2. General Durable Power of Attorney
3. Advanced Directives for Healthcare (a Living Will and a Health Care Surrogate Designation (called a Health Care Proxy in some places))

I would give a lot of thought to your fiduciaries--that is, your executor (also called a personal representative in some states), your agent under the POA, and your Health Care Surrogate/Proxy.  These are the people you trust to carry out the wishes you put into the documents.  To some degree, they are the executive branch to your legislative branch, and you want them to carry out your wishes properly.  They can't change your wishes, but they can make life easier or harder for your beneficiaries.

Also, if there is anyone you both do NOT want to receive anything, do NOT leave that person $1.  Go ahead and explicitly disinherit them.  If you leave them $1, they are now a beneficiary, with all the rights of a beneficiary, including mucking up a clean estate administration with objections and crap demands.

I would also listen to your local attorney if s/he tells you that you should have other documents prepared for your current state of residence.  You have moved a lot, sure, but at some point you might stay still longer than you think.  Very still.  (sorry, bad little joke there).

[use2betrix]

@TVRodriguez - I truly appreciate all your input. Certainly points me in the right direction and answers a lot of questions. Thank you!

[RedwoodDreams]

Interesting discussion. We put our will and trust together about 13 years ago, and this is a good reminder that it's time for an update. Lots has changed.

Here's another question: We had the last will & trust put together by a lawyer in another city and have since moved (within the same state). I'd been thinking of finding a new lawyer locally to do the update, but would they need to start over from zero since another lawyer did the original plan? Maybe cheaper and faster to go with the old lawyer, but I somehow like the idea of someone local who'd be easier to consult with if needed. After 13 years would she basically be starting over again anyway?

[TVRodriguez]

Interesting discussion. We put our will and trust together about 13 years ago, and this is a good reminder that it's time for an update. Lots has changed.

Here's another question: We had the last will & trust put together by a lawyer in another city and have since moved (within the same state). I'd been thinking of finding a new lawyer locally to do the update, but would they need to start over from zero since another lawyer did the original plan? Maybe cheaper and faster to go with the old lawyer, but I somehow like the idea of someone local who'd be easier to consult with if needed. After 13 years would she basically be starting over again anyway?

Yes, after 13 years, she would basically be starting over again, but you could call and find out what her office policy is. 

[kittykat]

@FatFI2025 , sounds like your parents unfortunately found the wrong lawyer.

I paid about $1400 for a will, PoA, and health care directive in NYC. I found the lawyer through a referral and she spent the time and effort to customize it exactly to my situation. I'm very glad I did it.

That's the main reason I would say it is absolutely worth it to pay for an individual to help you instead of doing a NOLO package. The online service is going to be the one that's cookie-cutter.

If you're happy with your NYC attorney would you mind sharing the referral? I need to update mine.

[norajean]

We paid about $1200 for trust, wills and health directives from an older attorney who does nothing else. Bay area.

[dodojojo]

As someone who has lived into middle age without ever having to engage a lawyer--how do I shop for one?

[Greystache]

We paid just over $1000 in the LA area, but we got the "friends and family discount" from a lawyer we knew socially.   I thought about doing it myself, but the part that I found difficult was funding the trust (transferring ownership of the house to the trust). Our lawyer friend did this for us as part of the deal.

[zygote]

@FatFI2025 , sounds like your parents unfortunately found the wrong lawyer.

I paid about $1400 for a will, PoA, and health care directive in NYC. I found the lawyer through a referral and she spent the time and effort to customize it exactly to my situation. I'm very glad I did it.

That's the main reason I would say it is absolutely worth it to pay for an individual to help you instead of doing a NOLO package. The online service is going to be the one that's cookie-cutter.

If you're happy with your NYC attorney would you mind sharing the referral? I need to update mine.

Sent you a PM!

[BicycleB]

I'm another example of someone who paid between $1500-2500 for an attorney to prepare documents and have them properly executed. $1800 in Texas for:

1) Will - estate includes one home, no complex personal property
2) Living Will (deals with what if you're at death's doorstep - should they crack ribs and shove tubes down your throat to make you live another hour, or let you go peacefully? If you don't have this, they are bound to crack ribs and shove tubes, apparently)
3) Medical power of attorney (I'm single, specifies who takes charge if I'm incapable)
4) Durable power of attorney (power of attorney for property, including all financial matters - again, says who takes charge if I'm incapable)

We (Sis and I did the same thing at the same time) didn't shop super hard. Googling family law attorneys and calling them, and Googling prices online, suggested $1800 was in the ballpark but that the range is wide. The attorney we found for a previous matter offered that price when we inquired, so after the price checking above, went with the familiar attorney in order to Git R Done.

By experience with my dad, having these documents simplifies matters greatly in difficult times.

[Fuzz]

Update your payable on death directive with Vanguard @use2betrix  Basically, if you have a beneficiary listed with your investment account, and that investment account is your only asset, than it wouldn't pass through probate or need to be in a trust (don't rely on me on the Internet, check this). But basically if your wife is a joint holder on your account, or the beneficiary, and that's the only asset you have, then there isn't anything to probate or put in a trust since the account automatically goes to her. And everyone else, make sure you update your beneficiary. I had my sister as the secondary beneficiary after my wife; after I had a kid, it took me 2 years to list the kid as the secondary beneficiary. Had my wife and I did in the interim, my kid would not have gotten the money; and if my sister had decided to give him the money, then he would have paid taxes on the amount above the gift exemption.

[Fuzz]

RE: OP. I was quoted $1500 for a will and $2500 for a trust recently. It might have been the friend price. Most attorneys should be able to do a will, but then you have the expense of probate. For a trust, I would want to make sure that the attorney is a specialist and good at it.

My experience as an attorney is that I no longer work with prepaid plans that employers put together because they tend to pay much less than market rate for the work. You're in NY and I am in a small population state, so your market is likely different.